God on the Job

We're gonna jump in today.

We're in a series called Dialogue.

In the book of Ecclesiastes 4, it says two are better than one, for they get a good return for their labor.

So we're doing a few weeks where instead of a monologue, we're doing dialogues.

And today we're actually going to talk about uh the role of our faith in God as it relates to our careers and businesses.

All right.

I'm gonna have you guys introduce yourselves real quick and and then uh we'll sort of get into the stuff.

But actually, let me um this is Dr.

Gabriel Hicks.

Come on, somebody give it up for Dr.

Hicks.

And this is Bruce Moser.

Um Bruce, we love you.

Yeah, well, it makes me flashback to last week around jealousy.

When Ello is saying, you know, when you feel people are smarter than you, maybe.

Exactly.

I'm feeling that right now.

She she's got nine years of higher ed honest.

But uh, why don't you introduce yourself a little bit about your background and and what you do for a living?

Absolutely.

Um, so I am from Aston, Ohio, born and raised.

Uh yes, I love to hear that.

Um graduated from Firestone High School, if that means anyone anything to anyone in 2012 and went straight off into college.

So, like you said, I did nine years.

So I did four years at Indiana University in uh Bloomington, Indiana, got two degrees there, and then I went straight into my master's program at Loyola University Chicago and got my master's there in a year.

What did you get your master's in?

My master's was in uh educational psychology.

Okay.

And then I came right to uh Ohio State, and that was like my dad's dream.

That was my dad's dream.

He was actually devastated when I didn't apply for OSU for undergrad.

So he was very happy that I got my PhD there, and I did that uh last spring.

So I've been now working at OSU.

And your PhD is in?

In school psychology, yep.

So I'm a licensed school psychologist.

And then what do you do for a living?

Where would you?

Yeah, so with Ohio State, I work in the College of Education as a postdoctoral scholar.

So I do uh research, consultation, project management, and like professional development for uh a number of our projects all across Ohio.

Awesome.

Bruce, why are you here?

Yeah.

You need to fill a seat, I guess.

Uh Bruce Mosier, I'm from the west side of Indianapolis, a town called Speedway.

If you maybe if you've been to the 500, you've you've been to Speedway.

I grew up there.

I had a couple of older brothers.

I ended up at Purdue.

I guess we only needed four years because they were, you know, like power.

And uh I moved on to my first job up in the northwest side of Indiana in a town called Fort Wayne, where I was uh working with ITT aerospace.

And my degree at Purdue was in uh organizational leadership with a focus in industrial engineering.

So uh found my way over here.

I followed a couple uh gentlemen early in my career there at ITT that I would term as mentors, and I came over to Columbus.

So I've spent more than half my life here at Spend Home.

And I've spent the last 33 years at a company that is now uh due to some splits.

I'm with Bath and Body Works, but uh formerly L brands.

It's just been a great experience with great people that's allowed me to stay there uh for so long.

And what do you do there?

Yeah, I lead the logistics department, the global uh logistics for them.

And um uh recently, again, it was all uh all uh Victoria's Secret and Bath and Body Works, but now I'm focused on Bath and Body.

So what's the most popular scent?

For me?

No, not for you, like then the word Japanese cherry blasting.

Really?

Any fan?

Somebody that hates it.

For me, it's bourbon.

Just saying.

Let's get into the word.

Yeah, let's go.

So I I think this is a really appropriate conversation, by the way, as we talk about business, and I'll give you a few reasons why.

Um, Jesus, when he gave allegories and parables, uh almost 70%, it was over 60% of his allegories and parables uh were business parables.

And he used them uh to talk about spiritual things, but he used business to do so.

And I believe that even now, uh probably the two biggest areas that God uses to disciple people are their families and their work.

Um so Jesus went at length to do that.

By the way, when Jesus recruited his team, uh he went right past the synagogue and went to the dock and started recruiting business people.

In fact, when you see in in Matthew 4, he goes to uh uh Peter and and James and John and he says, Hey, if you follow me, I'll make you fishers of men.

I'll make you fishers of men.

Uh he didn't say, hey, follow me and forget everything you know about business.

He didn't say, follow me and forget everything you know about fishing.

He said, No, we're gonna actually take what you've developed and we're going to apply it now to a bigger calling, which is people.

I want you to be people focused now.

You're gonna be fishers of men.

And what's interesting is Peter, okay, was casting a net when Jesus found him, and John was mending a net, and when you actually watch their lives, Peter was a caster and John was a mender, and even in their ministry, Peter was a caster and John was a mender.

So there was a lot of crossover and similarities.

And so I think it's important that we that we are that we don't compartmentalize our lives or where we come to church and we do the holy thing and then we go to work and we do the work thing.

In fact, um that's one of the big paradigm shifts in the new covenant.

When Paul's writing in 1 Corinthians 3, he says, Hey, don't you know, or in the King James he says, know ye not.

In other words, don't you know, ye are the temple, you are the temple.

You used to think you went to the temple, but you are the temple.

And think how you treat something you perceive to be holy, right?

Some of you, you know, you got your holy Bible at home and you have rules about how that thing's supposed to be treated.

You don't leave it on the ground, you don't put coffee on it, you know.

You're like, get that off there.

That's a holy Bible, right?

That's why some people have certain attitudes of how they treat the holy church.

They come in there like, you know, I swear and cuss everywhere except I go to church.

No, you don't cuss in church.

You know, you don't, you we're in church, we don't talk like that in church.

Why?

Because you go, it's a holy place.

I'm not going to handle it any kind of way.

Paul, but Paul says, hey, don't you know you're the temple?

So wherever you go is a holy place because God, the spirit that was in the temple is now in you.

And so so now that's gonna affect where I am, how I behave, how I think.

So when I think that way, work becomes a holy place.

And so that should affect the way I treat it.

All right, so let's talk about this.

Um uh, first of all, let's talk about how God has used your career in your personal discipleship.

Why don't you go first?

Yeah, um, so I think I have it pretty easy because psychology is my field, and so it's all about working with people and interacting with people, helping us with people.

And um, so he's used that in a variety of ways.

I think um I really consider everything that I do to be ministry, and so I've been able to help families.

As a school psychologist, a lot of families will come to us because of a need uh for concern for their child.

So special education evaluation, um, observation, all the things that go into special education, that's my job.

And so I had um the opportunity to just, you know, help families through the process in a very generic way, throw a lot of information at them.

If you know anything about the special education process, it's a lot, it's a lot of information.

And so I could just give them the information, send them through the process, but I really took every family um as an assignment, right?

I I really took it on myself as a responsibility to not just do my job, um, but to help, right?

To help them understand, to walk them through the process.

And so I think that aligns with all the work that I do because I get to work with people so much.

I'm looking for an opportunity opportunity to show them the character of God, right?

What God has done in me.

And it doesn't always have to be explicit.

Actually, I would say the majority of my time it hasn't necessarily been explicit that I lead in with I'm a Christian, but I let it speak through my actions and how I interact with people.

Yes, uh, Matthew 5, let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father that's in heaven.

Yeah, how about you, Bruce?

What what is uh uh how has your work or your career been used by God for discipleship?

Yeah, I um I didn't take the same path.

I took a longer kind of way to get there.

And um, you know, early, early on when I uh started work, I was caught up really in just trying to be competitive and you know get there as fast as I can and separate myself and distinguish myself along the way.

And probably about five years into my work um of leading others, uh I was shifting from one operation to another for a different opportunity.

And I came over there and I said, Hey, hey, uh, I'm Bruce, uh, glad to be over here with you.

And the the person said, Oh yeah, yeah, we we know who you are.

Great, you know, so I look forward to working with you.

They're like, Yeah, we know who you are, you're the iceman.

And I said, what is that?

And then like from Top Gun and Negative.

And uh now they're like, You're the Iceman, you're the you're the guy that's uh you know all about trying to get productivity and you know do great for yourself.

And I was like, okay now.

Uh so I took that home and did some, you know, a lot of self-reflection on that, but it didn't, it was a process to where you know I was you know not completely getting it.

I was on a little slower train.

So it wasn't until you know, probably where I hit roughly 40, and I remember just feeling like I was trying so hard to do so much, and it wasn't coming back to me in a positive way.

And I almost felt kind of helpless and hopeless about it, and a sense of maybe even giving up.

And I was washing the car and cleaning the rims of the tire, and I remember God said, Hey, why don't why don't you uh try my way?

And uh uh why don't you give this to me instead of knocking yourself out?

And I I believe at that time I I you know God spoke to me and I was like, all right, you know what?

This isn't working, I'm wiped out.

Uh you take it, this is you.

Uh you not you gotta help me.

And I I that's the point that I moved from really being dependent to or independent to dependence on him.

And it's just been great because now my focus isn't you know really on me, it's about really what I can do for other people.

I I transitioned into like servant uh you know leadership, and it's just been uh so rewarding in so many ways, uh just seeing and hearing from people.

You know, it's interesting when I listen to you tell that is I think about the fact that you know you had this brand or this reputation within your organization that this is uh the iceman, right?

And I think the fact that it bothered you is interesting.

Because I think to some people, when they hear, oh yeah, you're the cutthroat guy or you're the whatever, they might wear it as a badge of honor, and to go, yeah, you're you're you know, you're you're the guy who kicks tail and takes names or whatever.

That's not what I wanted, right?

That but they're their their observations were their truth, and clearly that's how I was behaving.

So uh, you know, it it was uh awakening for me.

Yeah, and I I I think it's one of the big um paradigm shifts or heart shifts that we have when we give our lives to Jesus, right?

And our build our our life on the gospel is you shift from trying to prove something to trying to improve something.

Okay, one of the things I love about our city in Columbus, I've met more driven people, hard chargers.

They're people nobody's got to wake them up in the morning, they get up and go.

And I think when you look, if you would call yourself a driven person, okay, if that's a trait that you possess, I do think it's important to look at that fuel and go, what is driving me?

Am I trying to prove something?

Am I trying to be the iceman?

Am I trying to be you know be the person who won't be denied and will step on anybody I have to step on to get the result that I have to get?

Or am I trying to improve something, which I think has another massive quantity of energy, right?

To go, actually, no, I I see something that that needs fixed.

I see something that uh God wants to use me like a problem that he wants me to solve or something he wants me to be a part of a solution.

You mentioned servant leadership.

We talked a couple weeks ago out of John 10, where Jesus talks about leadership, and he says, uh, hey, I'm the good shepherd.

And he's actually talking to Pharisees who were the type of people who would step on people or they would use people for their own gain.

And he says, Hey, uh, I want you to look at how I do.

He he sort of contrasts himself to them.

He says, Hey, uh, I'm like the good shepherd, and a good shepherd gets out in front of the sheep and and they follow his voice.

Why is he out front?

Well, he's out front because he's standing between them and and the um, you know, the thieves and the robbers or the wolves.

And in fact, when he says, I am the gate, he was again creating a word picture of a fenced-in area or a wall that protected the sheep, and then the the shepherd would lay down in the wall, laying himself down, right?

So different from using people or driving people uh with that's what thieves and robbers would do, drive you with fear, versus being someone that that leads with sacrifice and servant leadership, right?

Okay, that being said, if we're gonna be those kind of leaders, how does that work in a highly competitive world?

You gotta make hay, you gotta produce stuff.

You can't just show up to your boss and go, you know, I mean, we missed our our quota and everything, but man, we're we're very nice to one another, you know, and it was just you know, it was a very compassionate environment.

I mean, very healthy, very healthy, but we didn't get to the result.

In a sense, you have to have health and you have to have productivity.

How do you live in that space?

How do you lead in that space?

Yeah.

Um, I think being excellent was something that was taught to me growing up that that we come in and we're excellent and we do the best that we can.

And so I think sometimes people look at, you know, me having four degrees, like I've heard you all say it several times.

Everyone thinks I'm super smart and that I love college.

And I love to tell people, I didn't look, I didn't love college maybe after the third year.

I was tired.

Okay.

I was over it.

I'm like, why?

And I didn't also graduate high school saying I'm gonna go get four degrees.

That was definitely not something I told myself.

But what I did was I showed up to each space and I said, Essentially, Lord, whatever gifts and talents you've given me, let me do them well, let me do them to your glory, and whatever you want me to do here, like you said, improves the place.

I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna be me, I'm gonna do what the Lord has laid on my heart to do.

And whatever happens after that is what happens.

And so God really ordered those steps, right?

Like it wasn't me having to force myself in as a you know hard-handed leader, right?

I didn't actually always want to be a leader.

I was all of the leadership positions I think that I've held are things that I said I won't do that.

I said I wouldn't get a PhD, and then I did it.

You know, I was president of my student class and all of these things that I said I would never do.

But the opportunity presented itself because I was just standing in excellence, being obedient to God and saying, okay, he's given some talents he's given me, let me do them well.

So I think if you lead from that place rather than a place of pride or like we're talking about, competition, it's not about that.

When you release that control, God puts you exactly where you need to be.

So what I what I heard you say there was essentially you ground yourself in who you're actually working for.

Yeah, absolutely.

Right.

You have a job, somebody's paying you a check, somebody is giving you an evaluation, but at the end of the day, in your mind, that's not who you're performing for.

Absolutely.

Not that you want to do wrong by them, you want to certainly do right by them, but but that reminder that ultimately I work for God, not for people.

And that translates across a variety of fields, a variety of positions, a variety of jobs.

Because I didn't always either want to be a school psychologist.

And so, even over that nine years, it shifted between when I came in, I had a strong vision.

Honestly, leaving after getting a PhD, people think, you know, oh school psychology is exactly where you are and where you want to be.

But to be honest, I left my PhD with less clarity about what my future would be and where God was really going to send me than I was probably in high school.

And so when I have my vision on God and honoring Him, anything as ministry, any place that He places me as ministry, it's not about who I'm trying to perform for in that job to get higher.

It's Lord, where do you want me to be and trusting that He'll lead me there?

That's good.

Bruce, you want to answer that one?

You want me to ask you a different question?

Where are you feeling like?

Should I get three time?

Yeah, no.

Um, you know, when I walk into work, I think about uh, you know, I I park in the the furthest spot out in the parking lot.

One to stay grounded and two to give me a little time to to talk to God on the way into work.

And I will generally say, hey, you know, I don't I don't know what you know when I'm walking in here today, but I know there's somebody here today that probably needs some help.

And uh with my role or whatever, I can I can I can give them resources or help.

And it it might not be about getting their work done, it might be about just being a good listener, right?

And hearing what's happening in them.

In the last couple years, uh, you know, I can see my team that never went home, that was was uh continuously uh uh uh in the work because we we ship soaps and and and sanitizers, which were critically important during the pandemic.

And I could just see it in the eyes of the team that you know there's a lot happening there that had really in addition to what we were asking them to do.

So on my way in, I would ask God, you know, hey, just you know, let me be a vessel for you and help and put that person in front of me.

And even if it's one person, ten people, fifty people, whatever it might be, right?

Just allow me to be used in your way and give me the wisdom and the resources you know that you have in in order to help them.

And when you do that, uh you know, the team, you know, they they know you genuinely care about them and that you're not approaching them to ask them to do more.

It's like, oh, you know, Bruce is coming, he's probably gonna ask me about my kids or like how my parents are doing or something else, because you know, we'll we'll have that dialogue and they they and they know that I genuinely you know care about them.

I know by the way, when you open that dialogue, a lot of things, a lot of other things happen, like they'll tell me about how to improve the business or you know, maybe something they need to get their work done.

So it's like a it becomes like a win-win.

But their the intent is really to pour into the person and really find out what's happening with them.

All right, so this is how good you are.

You actually answered that question and the one I was gonna ask.

So let's go.

So the one I was gonna ask was because your your work, like, okay, so Dr.

Hicks works in specifically in psychology and helping people, you know, through these different things.

Your job, you guys are shipping products, so it may not, um, the nature of the work itself may not feel like the most noble thing, right?

Like it's like, hey, we're this is making a difference.

Like obviously in the pandemic it it was, but like for those who maybe work in a job where they're making a product that doesn't have this really clear correlation between that and and a heart or a you know some divine purpose, how do you frame that?

And what I heard you say, and correct me if I'm wrong, what I heard you say is, yeah, we make a product, yeah, we're we're you know shipping uh you know cherry blossom uh around the world, but it's more than that to you.

It's you're you're praying your way in, going, Lord, you're gonna put me in contact with somebody today.

Right.

And and we're yeah, we're gonna solve problems, and yeah, we're gonna do things related to the business, but they're human beings, and you've called me to essentially pasture them, to be used by you as a vessel.

And and you know, I think oftentimes we think about calling, if I was to use that word, what you're calling, what you're calling, we do sometimes attribute that directly to a vocation or a skill set or a work versus uh the fact that really at the end of the day our calling is to use our skills and the things God's given us to serve people.

So people all the time, oh I'm trying to find my calling.

I it's right in front of you.

Like people are there.

Like if God puts you across somebody, a human being, okay, that's a person, that's part of your calling.

And when he brings us in contact, I think we got to keep that at the top of our minds, uh, you know, so so that we don't miss opportunities.

Um, what what are uh let me ask a super practical question?

What are some ways that you like whether they're habits or disciplines or things you do on a daily basis to get your mind and heart in the right space to where you're not going into work in your flesh, that you're going in really uh you know, focused in the right heart?

Yeah, worship um I would say is my it's my go-to, it's my grounding thing.

Music.

Worship.

Music, yes, um, mainly because my mother uh growing up, worship leader, she's still a worship leader, has been for 30 plus years, and so I knew what it looked like to see the heart of a worshiper.

She wasn't just somebody who did the job, she lived a lifestyle of worship.

Our home was full of worship all the time.

Um, Israel Holton, Fred Hammond, you know, Donnie McClurkin, that's what I grew up on.

But even beyond the music, it was an atmosphere in our household, right?

I just felt like the spirit resided there.

I knew at a very young age that God was present, that he was in the room that close, you know, and so that still grounds me to this day, whether it's, you know, just setting my mind right on the day, or in seasons of high anxiety, you know, I knew at the very least, if I can't get the words out, or through my tears, I can't say what I need to say to God.

At the very least, uh, worship would ground me.

All right, so it's a rough day.

Okay, you had a long day at the office.

Yeah, you know, you walked out feeling whooped, tired, down.

Okay, what song are you going to?

Oh, there's so there's so many choices, so many options.

Um Spotify don't lie though.

If if you Yeah, okay.

So Spotify last year told me that my most played song was Breathe by Maverick City.

Um, okay, I hear some amens in the audience.

Um What about a throwback?

Okay, a throwback.

Um Speak to my heart by Donnie McClurkin.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

What's on the near spot?

Truthfully.

We can always edit it now, it's on a three-second delay.

David, your spot on one church music is safe.

He's not going to be taking it.

No, no, no.

No.

I'm never going to be asked to come back to it.

Yeah.

Everybody's got to know their strengths.

Let me ask this.

So inevitably, you uh you you're trying to succeed, you're working hard, you you throw your weight into something, you give it your best, it doesn't work out.

Um how is that role?

How's that played a role in your life, or how has God used that?

Or um yeah, talk about that.

Yeah, I you know, I uh truthfully, I struggle with failure even to this day.

And uh I'm just a critic.

And I think um, I mean I go deep when I feel like I fail, I go dark and deep, and uh I feel like the definitely the enemy is pulling me down, down under, and then I it takes me back to the word to where like, you know, how I do a self-check, like how deep are my roots, you know, and am I getting whipped in the wind every single time something happens?

And I I have to really, you know, revert back to the word quicker.

And and I would tell you now in today's speak that that's what happens.

I'm actually able to get there sooner and go to the word to get help.

But in the past, I found myself really just being my worst critic about it, and in some cases, find it a very difficult way and very difficult time uh to get out of it.

Fortunately, you know, my my wife is a very faith-based uh uh woman, and she's you know, when I'm feeling like that, I'm able to actually say something to her comfortably, and she'll say, hey, look, let's listen to truth here, okay?

Because you know, your fear is obviously coming from uncertainty and false expectations appearing real.

So let's go back to what's what what God's telling you here.

So it's uh it's still a it's still a struggle for me.

Uh you know, so I'm working on it.

I mean, let me ask this a follow-up question.

So you you um how long you've been in your current job?

33.

33 years?

How is that how is your attitude toward failure or your per perspective changed over those years, right?

So if you can think back on on those 30 years, what how did you think about it then?

How is over the process of maturity how has it changed?

I have um truthfully now I can find peace a lot sooner, right?

Uh so how well uh it starts in the morning.

Um after I go to the gym, um I sit down with my wife and we we do a Bible study together.

And uh, you know, the Bible has a tremendous amount of leaders in it, and we'll do uh Beth Moore Bible study.

Uh maybe it's one on Esther, maybe it's one on David, maybe it's one on Daniel, and uh, you know, I balance that leadership.

Like, how does how are these uh figures you know playing their way out through tough times?

And I feel like I'm putting on, you know, you know, like a coat of armor of going into my place of work and how I can prepare myself to be better, at least to avoid some of that failure, right?

Um, and I think by doing so now, I've you know, and by giving, you know, again, moving from uh independence to dependence, that's like, hey, this is your problem now.

You know, you wanted in on this, you know, you spoke to me when I was washing the car, like, you know, it's all yours, you figure it out.

Come on, do what you say, and uh if you know, truthfully, you know, I'm grateful for you know that the prayer will be answered, and I actually have this sense of peace now uh much quicker than I ever used to.

You know, uh as I was listening to you talk, I was thinking about my my own journey with with this, right?

And how often when I start my morning uh in his word, praying, uh meditating on scripture, thinking, processing it uh with somebody, whether it's my wife or a friend, uh processing God's word, often the the scripture or the study that God took me to will come into play at some point.

Uh maybe even that day.

Uh later in that day, it'll be something like, oh man, I'll draw back on it.

Um but sometimes it's just even building up the bank of and the reservoir of content and concepts and principles that I may not draw on that day, I might draw on it next year, but I have it in there.

You know, you you were talking about your discipline around exercise, you know, that is giving you strength uh to have longevity, uh, to be able to be in good energy.

You know, you actually I saw a study recently that was talking about um people's poor decisions uh in the later part of the day because they're fatigued, it was like the decision fatigue.

They were actually talking about judges that in the morning are very lenient, and in the afternoon they're just like guilty, you know, get out of here, get out of my face.

You know, I'm tired.

I've been doing this all day.

So by the way, if you ever go to court, try to get in the morning as best you can.

Um uh because we get tired.

And so even by you taking care of your body and stewarding your body, um, you're you're actually putting your emotions uh in in a good housing, right?

But on top of that, by doing the devotional stuff, right?

Studying a Bible character or spending time in God's Word, you're adding to your library that you might need it that day, or you might need it two two years from now, but you have it in there.

So that's where I would just encourage you.

Obviously, uh physical health is massive, it's super important, but to start building up that spiritual uh library.

All right, how about you?

Yeah, um, I have a two-part answer for this.

I think the first part on the day-to-day, how do I deal with failure?

There's a pretty popular quote that floats around every once in a while on social media, and it says, um, are you gonna cry about it or are you gonna boss up?

And it says, Well, first of all, I'm gonna do both.

I'm gonna do both.

I'm gonna cry.

But we'll pull it together and we'll get it done.

Um but season-wise, um, I realized that um I was riding kind of this wave of mountain moments.

So I'm an Enneagram three.

If you know anything about that, that may not be a surprise now that you know a little bit about me, but that's an achiever, a striver, somebody who's you know, looking to solve and and and do things.

And so um that's really where I was.

And then when I kind of transitioned into career, and there's not, you know, an award to be won or a degree, you know, you get the highest degree, there's nothing else to get there.

And so now I have to re um repurpose that energy, right?

And so I thought that the mountain moments, you know, were what was you know, bring me closer to God and you know, he's showing me all the things that he placed inside of me, but it's really in those value moments, in those failures, or even in just realizing, Lord, what are you trying to do in this season that has nothing to do with striving and succeeding?

Um, and even recognizing how that impacted my relationship with God.

So I was striving for degrees, striving for all of those things, and then bringing that energy to God and trying to strive in my relationship with Him and earn something that was already given.

Um, and so in this last season, I'm really starting to redirect that energy and recognize that and embrace, you know, the valley moments or the moments that are not necessarily on the mountaintop and recognize that God's not asking me to strive, you know, for him, that he's already given me salvation, grace, peace.

I have access to all of that without trying to earn it.

That's so good.

That's so good.

Let me let me summarize a few thoughts, and I'm gonna read one more scripture.

So my takeaways from this conversation is first of all, that you are the temple and you are a holy place, and wherever God sends you is a holy place, and we have a tendency to treat holy things in holy ways, and it's important for us to connect that dot that applies to our work.

That applies to our work.

Um so that's one dot.

Another dot to connect is that God will use your workplace, however rough the environment might be, whether you love your job or hate your job, or you think about quitting, or you quit yesterday, or uh, you know, whatever challenges you face, God will use that as a training ground for discipleship and uh to continue to connect those dots.

You think about the fact Jesus, right, when he was talking about kingdom, he used a familiar term to his vocation.

Jesus was a carpenter, he's a builder, and he said, Upon this rock, I'll build my church, I'll build it.

And so he was using those concepts to cross over into spiritual things.

Let's not miss those day in and day out opportunities, where we are and what we do, and the skills that you have with your mind and your hands and all of that for his glory.

I leave you with this verse, and uh, I was asking you guys your favorite verses, and Dr.

Hicks gave gave me her favorite or go-to verse, uh, Psalm 37, 23 and 24 in the amplified version.

It says, The steps of a good and righteous man are directed and established by the Lord.

Have you heard that verse before?

The steps of a righteous man, a righteous person is ordered by the Lord.

Okay, look what it says next.

And he delights in his way and blesses his path.

He delights in his way.

Don't misread that.

Who delights in whose way?

Who delights in whose way?

It's not saying that we delight in his way, actually, in this verse, it's saying that he delights in your way, that he delights in her way, in his way, and blesses his path.

And I want you to think about the fact that God is delighting in your journey.

No matter how difficult it might be.

We always pray for the mountaintop.

We always pray for God to take us higher, but some in some seasons God takes us deeper.

And he's delighting in your journey when you go and you're faithful and obedient with what he's given you, and you steward it well, and you sacrifice, and you lead well even when it's not popular, and you keep showing up when it doesn't feel good, and you keep walking by faith, and you keep allowing God to reveal things and search your heart.

Search me, oh God.

Know me, try me, know my thoughts, see if there be any wicked way in me.

And you just continue on that path in that direction.

Sometimes it might feel like you're going at a snail's pace.

That's okay.

It says he delights in your path.

And look at this next part.

We just talked about failure.

He said, when he falls, he will not be hurled down because the Lord is the one who holds his hand and sustains him.

I like that it says, when he falls, not if he falls.

We are going to fall.

It's not like you said, your gift and your strength is achievement.

That's your strength.

No one had to teach you to achieve.

You wanted to achieve, you went for it, and yet it's that same mentality that can become a prison, okay, where you're trying to be God's summa cum lade, and you're trying to be God's PhD, and God said, I just want you to be my daughter.

I delight in your way.

And when you fall, you will fall, you will get a B.

Oh, Lord forbid.

You might get a C minus.

Okay.

I'm there and I'll sustain you and I'll hold you.

And it's in those moments.

Of course, we wish for the high heights.

Often it's in the deepening, it's in the pain, it's in the failure.

And so I just encourage you today, whatever you're walking through in your career, it's a holy place.

Submit, surrender yourself to God, and allow Him to use it to shape you, to work both in you and through you.

Amen.