Question 4: Will Some Have Better Seats in Heaven?

Greetings and welcome to the Faith Chapel podcast. My name is Jason and I am

the pastor of Faith Chapel.

In the podcast right now, we are going through a sermon series from 2021 entitled Questions.

The congregation of Faith Chapel was asked to submit any questions they had

about Christianity or the Bible, and the answer to those questions was given in the form of sermons.

Today, the question is, are there different levels in heaven?

Thanks for joining us today.

One of the things I really enjoy about the kids is how curious they are,

how they want to see the pictures, and ultimately how they ask questions.

Questions is a really important thing for you and me, as we are growing,

as we are developing, as we are becoming,

as we're learning how to drive, as we're learning how to take tests in school,

as we get out into the workforce and we start a new job, all of these require

us being curious and asking a lot of questions.

And so we come into today's and the series that we're going on,

Questions, by really encouraging you guys to ask questions.

We learn best by asking, and we really want to encourage that.

This needs to be a place where you and I, we can learn, we can ask challenging

questions, we can ask really deep, deep questions.

And today's question that we're going to go over is one that really challenged me this week.

And it just was really something that changed the way I process through how I view the world.

And our question today is about heaven.

And the question starts out this way. We know we are saved by God's grace and not by our own works.

And this comes from Ephesians 2, eight and nine.

We are saved by grace through faith.

But are there different levels in heaven based on our works?

And this question, they wrote author's name on the post-it note as they put it down there.

I didn't include it in this question. I didn't want to do that.

But we're just asking this.

They read about this in somebody's book.

And so we're going to take a look at this and And really ponder,

are there different levels in heaven based on our works?

And one of the reasons this question was so challenging to me is because I was

processing it in two different ways.

The first one looks a lot like an airplane. And so on an airplane,

what we have are first class seats up near the front.

And there are a few of them in that section. So you're not around a whole lot of people.

And what I researched online, I've never flown first class before.

But what I've researched online is they serve food on actual plates.

And you get actual silverware. You don't have the plastic forks and knives.

You don't have the styrofoam tray that when I fly on airplanes that I usually get.

And so they have it pretty high up there.

They're living pretty good. Then we go back a section and we're in what is called business class.

You can see how the seats are. There are more seats and how they are closer together.

And this represents like a little more discomfort than first class has up where

they sit. because there are more people around.

The amenities aren't as nice, but you're still on the same plane and you're

still getting some luxuries.

And then finally, we're in the economy class or in coach where they,

I heard on a TV show one time as I was growing up, they really stuff you in

there like sardines, trying to get as many people on the plane as possible.

You get less amenities, you're more crowded, you get less foot space,

your elbows are touching people you may not know. and so this is not the most

comfortable way to travel, but hey, at least you're on the plane.

And when I think about different levels in heaven, this is a perspective that I have.

Are there people who get better amenities?

Are there people who get a chocolate fountain and some people who don't?

Are there people who get the luxuries of fine china to eat their plates on while

everybody else in heaven gets these styrofoam plates?

And so this is one way to process through this question of, are there different levels in heaven?

But there's also a second way, and it's the karate belt.

And so right here, you see all of the different belts in karate and their order.

And so the other way that I process through, are there levels in heaven,

is by taking this approach.

You're all going to the same studio. You're all on the same mats.

There are not better mats than other mats. Everybody is participating on the same mats.

You have the same outfit, basically. You have to use the same water fountain.

You have to use the same bathroom. And you're just in the place together.

But there's just a little something different about you.

And it's based on how much experience you have. It's based upon what level you have risen to.

And so you have people on the same mat who have brown belts and purple belts

and yellow belts. and white belts.

And it's just a tiny difference between you guys. And it's all in the aesthetics there.

All the other amenities are the same. It's just the aesthetics that are different.

And so this is how I've processed through this question. Is heaven like the

airplane where you have different amenities?

Or is it more like the karate studio where we have the same amenities,

just a little different thing on the outer of our bodies that separate us at all?

Or is neither of these biblically separate?

And so this is how we're going to process through it today. And we're going

to first take a look at the airplane approach.

In my research this week, I found two people who use the Bible,

two groups of people who use the Bible, who hold the airplane type approach.

And these are what we would call fringe groups.

I don't know the right way to classify them, but they read the Bible.

They believe that Jesus Christ is their savior, but they add a few more things onto it.

The first one is from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,

and they believe in a tiered approach to heaven.

And they call these different approaches glories.

So there is a celestial glory where you're like a celestial body.

You're up there in heaven, and that's where God is fully present with you.

And then you go to a terrestrial glory, and that's where most people would go.

And you have limited intimacy with God.

And then you have a telestial level, which is people who have never heard of

Jesus at all and never got to choose whether or not to follow him.

They go to that level or tier of heaven. and they use two scripture verses in

the Bible to really justify this thinking.

I'm gonna read those to you and then we're gonna go through the whole entire

context around those two verses to really see if that's what scripture teaches.

And so we're gonna go to 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and we're gonna read 40 and 41.

1 Corinthians 15 · chapter mention

There are also bodies in the heavens, and this is what Paul's writing to the

Corinthian church, and bodies on earth.

The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly.

The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind.

And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

And so Paul is writing and he's saying, hey, these are different glories.

And this is right where they get their celestial glory, their terrestrial glory,

their telestial glory from.

Like right from this passage. But these, as they are referencing these three

tiers of heaven, these are the only two scripture passages that they give as a reference to it.

And you can see how, all right, yeah, I can see how this, if you're looking

at just these two verses, you can

see, all right, yeah, there seems to be different degrees of glory there.

But when you take a look at the broader perspective of what's really going on, it's not exactly that.

Context is everything. Context is everything.

And let's look at the context as we go through these. Context.

So we are in 1 Corinthians chapter 15, and we're going to start in verse 35.

1 Corinthians 15 · chapter mention

But someone may ask, how will the dead be raised?

What kind of bodies will they have? What a foolish question.

When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn't grow into a plant unless it dies first.

And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow,

but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting.

Then God gives it a new body he wants it to have.

A different plant grows from each kind of seed. Similarly, there are different

kinds of flesh, one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, another for fish.

There are also bodies in heaven and bodies on the earth.

The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind.

And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead.

Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.

Our bodies are buried in the brokenness, but they will be raised in glory.

They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.

They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies.

For just as these are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

And so what Paul is saying here is he's using this as an example.

He uses several different kinds of examples that you and I can experience,

something we can study in science. And he can say, all right,

there are multiple types of body. This shouldn't surprise you.

A fish doesn't have the same body as a bear, and a bear doesn't have the same

body as an eagle, and the eagle doesn't have the same body as a human being.

They're obviously different here. And in the same way,

he talks about how a seed, how a seed, it doesn't just grow the same,

the seed just doesn't get bigger and bigger and bigger when you plant it into

the ground, but it dies to ourselves, it sends up a stalk, and it becomes a completely new plant.

Lastly, he talks about, hey, you can just look at the sky and see how people

have different bodies, how there are different bodies in nature.

And so the sun doesn't look like the moon, and the moon doesn't look like the stars.

And even the stars have varying degrees of brightness.

On Friday night, my family and I, we were out at a campfire and we looked over

our house and we saw the Big Dipper.

And when I see the Big Dipper, I always try to look for the Little Dipper.

And the Little Dipper has two bright stars at the end of the cup and one bright

star at the very tip of the handle.

The other stars are really, really faint and it really takes me a long time

to say, all right, where's that next star in that handle?

All right, where's the first two stars in the cup?

And you can see how they have different degrees of brightness or what Paul would call glory.

And so using the whole entire context of that verse, we can see that Paul's

not saying this is how heaven's going to be split up into three tiers.

All right. So this group, I don't believe they take a scriptural version of

what heaven is going to be like as they describe three tiers in heaven.

The second group, also a fringe group, but who use the Bible and who believe

Jesus to be a savior for them, is the Jehovah's Witnesses.

And they believed in a tiered approach to heaven, a leveled approach to heaven,

based upon a scripture passage, a couple of scripture passages in Revelation.

The first one we're going to go over talks is in Revelation chapter 14,

Revelation 14 · chapter mention

and it talks about a group of people called the 144,000.

And there are two places in scripture, in Revelation, where the 144,000 are found.

One of them is in Revelation chapter 14.

Revelation 14 · chapter mention

Then I saw the Lamb standing on Mount Zion. In John's revelation,

the Lamb stands for Jesus.

Then I saw Jesus standing on Mount Zion, and with him were 144,000 who had his

name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of mighty ocean waves or the rolling of loud thunder.

It was like the sound of many harpists playing together.

This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and

before the four living beings and the 24 elders.

No one could learn this song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

They have kept themselves pure as virgins, following the Lamb wherever He goes.

They have been purchased from among the people on the earth as a special offering

to God and to the Lamb. They have told no lies. They are without blame.

And you can kind of see here, like, all right, these are in a class of themselves.

All right. They are set apart. They have never told a lie. No deceit has come from their tongue.

And it's a very fascinating passage. But getting doctrine out of Revelation is really,

really difficult because it is given in language that is such very symbolic. That is very symbolic.

But you can see here how, all right, yeah, these people can be set apart.

These people can be different.

These people can be unique.

But when you put this with the entire picture of Revelation and the entire picture of the Bible,

it doesn't seem, it doesn't say to me, it doesn't scream to me,

yeah, there's going to be a level in heaven here.

Because if you go to the second to last book in the Bible, Revelation chapter 21.

Revelation 21 · chapter mention

These are the first few verses of that. Then I saw a new heavens and a new earth,

for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared, and the sea was also gone.

And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven

like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

I heard a loud shout from the throne saying, look, God's home is now among his

people, and he will live with them, and they will be his people.

God himself will be with them. He will wipe every tear from their eyes and there

will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain.

All these things are gone forever.

And so here the picture is that God is going to be with all of his redeemed people.

Everybody is going to be together with God.

And this is the picture you get when Isaiah talks about the lion laying with the lamb.

And this is the picture I see that every one of us who believes in Jesus,

who surrenders our life to him, all of us are going to be with him in eternity

and he will wipe the tears from our eyes.

In my view, both of these perspectives are unscriptural.

They're not based on the entire message that this Bible has.

The message is that we will be with God.

And that there will be no levels, no tiers, no different amenities for me and for you.

We will all be with God together.

But this doesn't mean that our understanding of the karate system,

the belt system, is completely inaccurate.

And so we really need to look at more passages of scripture to understand if

that one is accurate or can be true.

And before I dive in here, not everybody agrees on this topic.

Not everyone is very sure.

The New Testament, no doubt, uses the word reward for those who are faithful to God.

Some people believe that every time that the word reward is used,

it means that you're going to be in heaven. That is your reward.

But there are some people who say, look at the context around them.

Look at this passage. Look at that passage. It looks like there could be some

rewards that are bestowed out in heaven.

And this, this is something that we are going to take a look at.

And we're going to start again with another of Paul's letters.

1 Corinthians 3, verses 5 through 9.

1 Corinthians 3:5–9

And this is where Paul is really trying to distinguish between the leaders of a church.

Who should you follow? The Corinthian church is, they're experiencing,

some want to follow a guy by the name of Apollos, some want to follow Paul,

some say, no, no, no, we need to forget both of those, and we just need to follow after Jesus.

And so this is what Paul is writing in correspondence to that.

He writes, after all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul?

We are only God's servants through whom you believed the good news.

Each of us did the work the Lord gave us.

I planted the seed in your hearts and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow.

It's not important who does the planting or who does the watering.

What's important is that God makes the seed grow.

The one who plants and the one who waters work together with the same purpose.

And both will be rewarded for their own hard work.

For we are both God's workers and you are God's field. You are God's building.

And he's saying the word reward right here. And we will be rewarded for our work, for our labor.

Now, if Ephesians 2, 8 and 9 is correct, and it says you are saved by grace

through faith, and this is not a work of your own, this is the gift of God,

then how does this play into it?

Let's go down to verse 10 and continuing. Because of God's grace to me,

I have laid the foundation like an expert builder.

Now others are building on it, but whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have, Jesus Christ.

And this is the foundation. This is how you are saved by grace through faith.

It is in Jesus, and he is the foundation.

But continuing on, Paul goes on to say, Anyone who builds on that foundation,

which is Jesus Christ, may use a variety of materials, gold,

silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw.

But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done.

The fire will show if a person's work has any value.

If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. But if the work is

burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. the builder will be saved,

but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

And so he's saying, all right, it's going to be like a whole house comes up

into heaven on that day of judgment. And this house, the foundation and everything

in it, the foundation is secure.

When you believe in Jesus Christ, you will get to heaven, but it's going to

come up and it's going to go through a wall of flames.

And if you have built your entire life upon just straw, hay, and sticks.

If you have built all that you have done upon these things, they'll get burnt

up and you will be left just with Jesus to cry out to.

But if you build with gold and precious jewels and silver, this house will survive.

And like Paul said earlier in this passage, you will receive a reward.

It's like you're moving up a level. You're no longer a white belt. You're a yellow belt.

You're no longer a brown belt. You've attained to the black belt level.

And Paul is saying, like, it's going to happen.

Every one of our deeds are going to go before God. Every one of our thoughts,

every one of our, the attitudes that we've had and the reasons that we have done things.

God knows them all and he's going to judge it.

He's going to judge it. Your foundation is Jesus and you are saved and you are

in heaven. So your building around there will show whether or not you get rewards.

All throughout the New Testament, this is a common theme, and it's not just in Paul's writing.

Jesus mentions it a couple of times.

One is a couple are in the Sermon on the Mount where you lay up for your treasures,

where you lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven and not on earth.

The last of the Beatitudes talks about rewards. For your reward will be great in heaven.

And then in Matthew chapter 16, we have this.

Matthew 16 · chapter mention

Jesus saying, for the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his

Father and will judge all people according to their deeds.

Again, salvation is by grace through faith alone.

Heaven is for those who believe in Jesus. But there seems to be some sort of reward system up there.

We don't know what it is.

Scripture is unclear. There are five scripture passages that talk about a crown.

And so some people think like it's a crown with jewels in it.

And so this will be like your karate belt. People can see, oh,

you have 14 diamonds in your crown. Oh, you did a lot on the earth. Well done.

But there seems to be some perspective of reward in heaven.

And again, it's you are with God and you are in perfection.

And so it's not going to be like, I'm in awe of your 14 crowns and I covet your 14 jewels right there.

It's going to be like, man, can you believe we're with God?

Oh man, look at all that you did. Man, I really admire you for that.

Let's go and worship Jesus together.

That's the picture I get.

When I study this picture and when I ask myself, are there levels in heaven?

Now, where you really need to decide if this sits with you is one of two places.

Are you on the foundation where Jesus Christ is your savior?

Are you in heaven? Are you part of that heavenly class when the new heavens

and the new earth come together and you dwell with God?

Are you there? If not, your most pressing issue is to decide whether or not

you're all in for him, whether or not you're gonna make him the foundation of your life.

If you're already there, if you're already on Jesus Christ as your foundation,

then you have a decision to make because ultimately that's what we want.

We want to be in heaven with God.

The decision once you're on that foundation of Jesus Christ is are you gonna get in the game?

Are you gonna put on the Taekwondo suits or the karate outfit?

Are you gonna strap on your white belt and are you going to work for it?

Are you gonna go after God?

You going to get in the game? Are you going to get on the mat?

Are you going to take the stance?

And are you going to really intentionally go after him?

Because if you are, it's time to put on your outfit.

It's time to put on your outfit. We have a lot of opportunities coming up for

you to really work with God, to really go after God.

Small group starts this week, and maybe that's where you can really start connecting well with God.

Maybe that's where you can surrender it. Maybe you can start by leading a prayer

at your small group or taking a session from your small group leader and saying,

no, no, I'm going to, let me take this one.

I'm going to take the next time we get together and I'm going to lead that session.

Maybe it's just praying out loud at that. Maybe it's just being vulnerable in

that moment, in that session and offering conversation and really reflecting

and opening yourself up to the Holy Spirit.

Get on the mat. Take the stance.

Work for it. I know as I was reflecting on this, there are two things that really hit me hard.

One is if I believe in the rewards of heaven, if I believe that it's a belt,

I need to be not so judgmental about people in the church, about people who

don't really connect, don't really.

Participate in the fullness of the body of Christ. Do I think it's better if

you participate in the full body of Christ?

Yes, I believe it's better. And I think the rewards are great,

but I have to stop being so judgmental because the only thing that matters is

whether or not they're on the foundation of Jesus Christ.

Second thing I want, second thing I really learned this week is that God is

so infinitely bigger than I can possibly imagine.

I don't know the full answer to this question. I know what I believe.

I know what I've studied.

I know what I've looked at, but God is so much bigger and he deserves so much more of my life.

And wherever I'm at on that belt list, I know I want to get better,

but not for me and my glory, but for him and his, because of how awesome he is.

Revelation has a very encouraging, encouraging ending.

And in Revelation chapter 19, starting in verse 9, it says this,

Revelation 19 · chapter mention

And the angel said to me, me being John here, Write this, Blessed are those

who are invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb.

And he added, these words are true.

These are true words that come from God.

Ultimately, if we're on the foundation of Jesus, we will be lifted up to a place

of a banquet where we become the bride of Jesus Christ and where he, as our rightful groom,

takes his place in our hearts and in our minds and for all of eternity.

Interesting that John sees this as a wedding feast, Jesus and the church coming

together, because Jesus, when he left this earth, he left with one final meal, a feast.

And so as we transition into our communion service today, I invite you to take

the cups in front of you and just remember that this is a foretaste,

that this is just a small picture of what that feast, the wedding feast will look like.

It is just a small glimpse of it.

But Jesus foreshadows this for us in this communion service.

And so before we take it, I'd like to pray over it.

Lord God Almighty, we come before you today and we just praise you and we thank

you for your goodness, for your grace, and for your mercy.

You are perfect.

Lord, we ask that you will use this remembrance. We ask that you use this as

a foretaste of what that heavenly banquet is going to be like when the church and when Jesus Christ,

the bride and the groom are united together forever.

So may this bread be for us a remembrance of your body and your blood of your

body that was broken for us.

May this juice be a remembrance of the blood that was shed for us.

And may we understand, may we come to know that you are our future. You are our hope.

You are our prize.

And that we, no matter if we're working hard for you or if we're just in the

family and we're just on the foundation of you, that we're all in this because of you.

Jesus, we ask this in your name.

Amen.

Thank you again for joining us in our discussion about what we know about heaven.

This series and these podcasts are designed to promote questions in and amongst followers of Jesus.

Remember, it is good to ask questions. Questions show you want to learn.

Be curious and always ask questions.

In our next episode, we will look at the question, what happened to America

being a Christian nation? Have a great week.