Saturday Message - Rachel and Gordon Hickson (June 21, 2008) | Life Bible Church

It's our privilege. And I didn't dare come back

without bringing Gordon. Thank you. Thank you

so much. Do be seated. I'm going to maybe just

do ten minutes. I'm going to actually let Gordon

take the lion's share this morning because you're

far more interested in hearing from him because

you've heard me many, many times. But I just

feel that I wanted to just... give a context

a little bit about why marriage matters and how

it's so important we stake this ground and stake

it aggressively but make it look positive because

there is such an onslaught out there and there's

such a negative vibe from media, from TV, you

know all the soaps all say that actually the

adulterous relationships, the ones where you're

sort of getting attracted and where you walk

down the road and notice that that guy's real

fit and that girl's real cute is much more interesting

than one that you got at home. And there's the

whole of life, you know, your women's mags and

everything are all saying, well get a kick, you

know, switch something on and they never go have

a good marriage. And so, actually, the church

has got a massive media campaign, if you like,

to show the opposite way. And we've got to do

it for the sake of our kids and the next generation.

We've got to begin to model something. And it's

not enough just to do it at home. It's got to

be seen. How many agree with me? And of course,

it starts at the home, because everything spiritual

starts on the inside and works out. But it's

about time we let it out. We've got to let a

shout out that marriage is great, that there's

a whole generation of kids even before they're

married want to be married and they go in the

opposite flow to their kids at high school etc

because they've got a passion for something because

they've understood the rudiments of it and so

I just want to start with this scripture in Proverbs

Proverbs 4:18

4 verse 18 Proverbs 4 verse 18 and almost picking

Proverbs 4:18

up from the ladies conference just to put a link

and we've been talking about the pursuit of his

presence and finding that way that journey which

brings life to us. And here, Romans four, Romans,

Proverbs four, verse 18, Proverbs four, verse

18. The path of the righteous is like the first

gleam of the dawn. If I can just have more monitors

here, I really like sound in me, I'm sorry, because

I otherwise lose my voice. The path of the righteous

is like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever

brighter to the full light of day. But the way

of the wicked is like deep darkness. They do

not know what makes them stumble. And I think

this could be such a good illustration of marriage.

You know, the path of a righteous marriage, that

right -standing marriage that has found its alignment

in the presence of God, is like that first gleam

of the dawn. How many of you love sunrise? Well,

I prefer sunset. But there's that first gleam

of dawn With the expectation is going to get

brighter and it's so interesting in today's Sort

of campaign is the expectation with it the year

honeymoons your best bit and then it goes downhill

from there but actually the path of the righteous

is only the first gleam and They gets brighter

and brighter to the full noonday sun, but the

wicked They live in darkness. They don't even

know what's tripping them up and how true that

is and so it's time that we begin to educate

ourselves and I just wanted to start with this

maybe big overview of what's going on and what's

hitting us. And we need to be aware and intelligent

and informed. In Britain, I just want to share

this with you. This is what's happening in our

legislature. And it's just gone through our government.

This is Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, which many

Americans I know believe are good Christians.

I just want to say they have done more to undermine

our moral and ethical fiber of British society

than many prime ministers in the last years.

Tony Blair legalized cannabis, he legalized 24

drinking, he legalized gay marriage, he legalized

super casinos with the vision of having 12 cities

in Britain like Las Vegas, and so I could carry

on. But then Gordon Brown, the next one, has

just stepped in, and we had an overview of the

look of our ethical sort of legislation. And

four laws were passed about a month ago now.

But I want to just show this to you because...

The same pressure is coming in the U .S. and

in Europe. And this is going to be first world

culture for 21st century kids and marriages.

And so something in us has got to rise up. That

it's not just about modeling our marriage so

we have a better life. That actually this is

spiritual warfare to break through and pioneer

a way. Because we believe in marriage. We believe

in Adam and Eve. We believe in two women. I mean

you laugh last year when I said it's Adam and

Eve, not Adam and Steve. I believe that I'm ready

to go to jail for that. I don't believe that

that's wrong. I believe that that's what God

intended. I do believe that we have an enemy

that perverts, twists, steals, rob, kills, destroys.

And I hate the devil and all his works. And I'm

on a militant campaign to rescue every single

person that the devil dares to target with his

filth. I love people, but I hate the devil. Do

you get what I'm saying? And so, coming back

to the legislation, this is what was just passed

in Britain. They looked at four different statutes

and unfortunately all of them were passed against

British, against Christian morality. The first

one was what they called the Embryology Bill.

This was looking at stem cell research and the

use of embryological tissue from embryo stem

cells. They then developed that further. I know

US has done something, but Britain now has the

most liberal legislation and embryology laws

in the world. And what they then developed is

and passed the law despite thousands and thousands

of signatures against it. The MPs just wrote

that these condescending letters saying we're

going to do it anyway. This is now It's absolutely

legal in Britain to take human embryological

tissue, mix it with animal tissue, and begin

to produce mutant monsters and grow them in laboratories

until 14 days old. With a clause to extend that

14 days if necessary. Can you see what we're

doing? We're gonna grow monsters. Quite literally.

Now, this is where America has some responsibility

because the biotechnic sort of advance is still

fairly contained legislatively in the US. The

US pharmaceuticals are moving all their bases

to Britain and they are funding this. You are

throwing billions of dollars to now support British

pharmaceuticals and you're paying for it. I don't

mean that nastily, but that's the full facts.

And we are growing. I mean they're just talking

about, they've taken the heart of a pig, DNA,

put it with human cells and they're growing this.

If something in you begins to say, oh God have

mercy, that was number one. Isn't it terrible?

Number two. If I can even do it. It just, it

so devastates me of how we've lost the plot and

what God gave marriage for or what children and

babies are about. Number two is the development

of what has been called savior siblings. Now

I have great, great compassion for people that

give birth to a child with a genetic disease.

And so what they're now developing is in the

laboratories that they're actually growing babies

by manipulating DNA. So a father and mother put

their DNA together. They choose all the different

combination cells, grow it in the laboratory

until they can find the most exact DNA that would

help the genetically deformed kid. And they grow

that baby to full term. And the baby is then

put back. into the mother's womb, that baby is

delivered and then that baby's tissue is used

to heal the other baby that was born defective.

That is now legal. Number three, IVF treatment

which we're all aware of. They have now decided

that because homosexual and heterosexual relationships

are no different. Because you see, once you take

God out, there is no boundaries. So they've now

said the need for a father is irrelevant. And

so birth certificates in Britain, where IVF treatments

used, will no longer have a father stated. And

so we are literally, we have legalized the fatherless

generation. Number four. It breaks my heart.

Number four. We looked at abortion again. In

Britain, it's still legal to abort up to 24 weeks.

Um, 20... 1968. was when abortion was first legalized

in Britain and it was last looked at 23 years

ago in terms of how it should be contained by

the British Medical Association. My field, if

you wonder why I know quite a bit, my background

is I'm a clinical biochemist. I worked in reproductive

physiology. So I actually understand quite a

lot of the background of this and have been on

the cutting edge and have kept myself familiar

with it. And so when the weeks of the abortion

were first chosen 23 years ago. They decided

24 weeks was reasonable and this was the process

of thought by the British Medical Association

then. At that time, to actually evaluate pregnancy

was very much more of a dubious thing because

our antibodies, which actually specify you're

pregnant, were very much more less defined. And

so we used to take five mils of urine, you know,

look down the tube, see if it's a blue thing,

then repeat it in three weeks, and then you definitely

were confirmed. And usually, as a medical profession,

we were not really happy to definitely confirm

pregnancy until 12 weeks. How many of you know

that week has dropped dramatically? We are now

very confident as a medical profession to be

able to say it six weeks whether you're pregnant

or not because our beta HCG Analysis is so much

better. So we've dropped that by six weeks. Do

you get what I'm saying? And so at that time

12 weeks was after And so they thought, we'll

give people 12 weeks, three months to make the

choice, 24 weeks. But now we've dropped by six

weeks. We can definitely look at a girl and say,

you are definitely pregnant in six weeks. And

so we were proposing that we drop 24 weeks to

20 weeks, and some are pushing for 18. Across

Europe, Britain is number one at 24. There is

one other nation. that has 18, four nations that

have 16 and the rest are at 14. So we're already

sky high anyway. The pressure to get those weeks

dropped was huge. Many, you know, not religious

background people stood and testified to the

government. There was one nurse who just testified

on half of the British Medical Association who

said that she had stirred. after an abortion

because the terrible thing is you've got people

miscarrying and people aborting and now our ICU

neonatal clinics are able to help people of 24

weeks and so you've got medical doctors with

a baby of 24 weeks giving everything to keep

him alive and then you've got others saying we'll

kill him so this dear nurse is standing there

An abortion delivery at 24 weeks is delivered.

It's a baby boy. It's delivered into a cardboard,

you know, kidney sort of tray thing. And the

baby's breathing. She's told, well, it's just

human waste. Put it down the chute. Just like

when you do surgery, you know, heart, et cetera.

It happens in America. This is exactly what happens

in America. And it's considered human waste because

it's not a baby. And so this little baby's there,

it lives for seven hours, breathing. She's absolutely

devastated, there's all the medical thing and

screaming at her, just stick it down the chute,

stick it down the chute. And she said, in the

end she did. And she said, I know I committed

murder that day. So that went to government,

a huge thing. We kept it exactly the same, we

didn't even know the abortion rate by one day.

Despite literally... And maybe this is quite

a weird way to start an ill marriage. But you

see, what I'm trying to say is somebody's got

to cry out. There's got to come an outcry we've

got to understand that what we're fighting in

the whole marriage thing of a man and a woman

coming together for the procreation of precious

children to pass on from generation to generation

to generation is something so close to the heart

of God and something that the devil hates with

such a passion we have no understanding how much

he hates it and so we've got to come together

in these days and in these times to battle scrap

because this is the time of marriage. This is

the time to come together to fight the filthy

devil and all his works every spirit of depression

every spirit of oppression Against that marriage

and begin to stand up as men and women in this

day without shame and without blame For what

has been done and if you have been through those

difficult things There is power in the blood

of Jesus to eradicate all our sin. He redeems

us. He cleans us he He gives us our head up and

our shoulders back, and then He gives us purpose.

And I tell you, in fact, those that have gone

through some of the mess of those times, they

are the ones who need to have the outcry from

the inside out and begin to speak out to a fatherless,

literally, generation, to a murdering generation,

and begin to explain the better way, because

this is our mandate as the body of Christ. And

that is why... I believe marriage matters. That's

why I believe there is such a hellhole battle.

And that's why this morning Gordon is going to

come, and we're really going to look at, well,

what is the role of man and woman in 21st century?

What does the Bible actually say a man looks

like? What does the Bible actually say a woman

looks like? We read so much stuff of what our

role should be, of how we should look, but we've

got to go back to basics. We've got to let God

show us, well, what does Jesus look like as the

bridegroom, and how should we as men really be?

those bridegroom men that raise a bride that's

radiant, spotless, beautiful, and it's going

to wow the world that this is what it's like.

And come on, girls, what do we do in that role

of women to make the bridegroom? And that whole

earth exclaims the darling of heaven. And that

is our mandate. And we've got to kill the wretched

spirits that are out there that literally are

robbing generation after generation, marriage

after marriage. There's got to be such an outcry

in us. It's enough. It's enough. And as I look,

and okay, the British church is political in

church, so I'll just do it. But as I look and

I've really followed the election campaign of

both your Democratic and your Republican candidate

now. And as you look at Kane and Obama, and I

go on record, I love looking at voting records

and finding, because I'm not so interested in

all the hype. Go behind and go online and you

can find the voting records of their moral and

ethical choices. Because when no one's watching

and they think they've got a free vote and they

can do it and no one chases them, you can track

them down. And I have to say, America, both your

candidates do not have good voting records. It

doesn't matter if they're Republican or... their

heart cry when they're in the booth by themselves

on moral issues is not being good for either

of them so it needs serious prayer and so it

isn't really about that it's about much more

a fight for righteousness in a land so guess

who can fill the gap the church come on church

this is your hour Come on, Gordon, this is yours.

She's amazing. Well, it's so good to be here.

Rachael's talked so much about the church. I've

had a great time. I talked to the ladies yesterday.

We're going to look at marriage, communication

marriage. Do you want to take this? Turn to the

famous passage, Ephesians 5, from verse 21. For

verse 21, Ephesians 5, submit to one another.

Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord,

for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ

is the head of the church, his body of which

he is the savior. Now as the church submits to

Christ, so also wives should submit to their

husbands in everything. Husbands, now love your

wives just as Christ loved the church and gave

himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing

her by the washing with water through the word,

and to present her to himself as the radiant

church without stain or wrinkle or any other

blemish, but holy and blameless. In the same

way, husbands ought to love their wives as their

own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

After all, No one ever hated his own body, but

he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does

the church. For we are members of his body. For

this reason, a man will leave his father and

mother and be united to his wife, and the two

will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery,

but I am talking about Christ and the church.

However, each one of you must also love his wife.

as he loves himself and the wife must respect

her husband. So Father we want to thank you for

today. Thank you Lord in the context of this

battle for marriage. Lord we want to thank you

that you're saying arise shine come on let's

let the glory of God come back on marriages.

Father we pray for revelation today as we just

open up this whole subject of our marriages that

you will just speak to every one of us where

we're at. that we will just know the Word of

God individually to our situations, but also

corporately of something that you want to do

in our lives. So thank you, Father. Amen. I really

want to frame this in the whole context of our

journey, journey into togetherness, journey into

communication and oneness. And just so you don't

think that we are Mr. and Mrs. Perfect, it would

be good for you to know where we come from. And

I shared a little bit with the women yesterday,

but I come from a real male chauvinist, independent

background. I'm an ex -British Army officer.

I was a captain of the British Army. And totally

independent. I didn't have any time for marriage

at all. I remember when I first met Rachel, I

said, actually, I don't really want to get married.

I just want to have children. This was long before

we fell in love. So yeah, I just didn't want

to let anybody in my life. I was completely independent

and Finally got married at about 30 just just

as I was reaching 30, but I was I was Independent

because I was I was very fearful. I was I was

damaged and I went through quite a serious nervous

breakdown when I was in the British Army Not

because of the situation that I was in, I was

in Northern Ireland at the time, but that was

my third tour. But it was because my life was

ruled by the fear of man, and God allowed that

fear of man just to take hold of me because he

called me out of the army, he called me to go

and work full time for him. Because I wouldn't,

I just refused. God allowed me just to reap the

fruit of that, and I just got completely overwhelmed

with fear. Four of my soldiers were killed in

the first week on the third tour. But I was a

nervous wreck. I couldn't talk to people without

shaking. I used to have panic attacks all the

time. And Rachel, when I first met her, she also

had been deeply damaged. Wonderful parents, but

deeply damaged in India and had had some difficult

things happen to her in India. So she used to

drop her eyes. She never used to look anybody

in the eye. She used to drop her eyes and run

for a chair. and just used to hide on the edges.

Now those two black holes got married. And you

can imagine the fireworks that that was going

to cause and the pain that we had to go through.

But the key to the whole thing was what I could

see. Because when I first saw Rachel, even though

she was very wounded, I saw a wounded eagle.

I saw a wounded, damaged eagle that was... held

in this cage. And I was just longing to see that

eagle be healed and fully released. And it was

quite a time. It took quite a few years before

she really came to healing and fullness. But

it was a process of allowing both of us to go

through a repair time and then a rebuild time

and then a time of release. And people always

used to talk to me about the vision of heaven

and hell being the same. In that heaven, sorry

hell was a place where there's a vast table of

a banquet where people were confronted with this

massive bounty and they had six foot long forks

and they were desperately trying to feed themselves

and they couldn't do it so they were totally

emaciated and just these skinny emaciated beings.

But heaven was the same banqueting table and

they just learnt. that to survive and to grow

and to prosper they had to feed each other. Now

heaven and hell are the same in marriage. Your

marriage can be heaven and hell depending on

how you see it. And if you come in to feed yourself

for your rights, me, my, I, it's absolute hell.

When you learn to feed each other and help each

other and build each other up and rebuild each

other and then release each other, it's absolute

heaven. And the very same thing can be heaven

or hell. And we discovered very soon, and believe

me, we had some good fat fights at the beginning,

like everyone else does, until we discovered

that actually we both had an emotional tank.

We both needed to be filled. And our job was

not to fill ourselves and to make ourselves get

filled. Our job really was to fill each other's

emotional tank. And my fuel that I run on is

to be appreciated, respected, valued. encouraged.

And Rachel, you know, women's emotional tank,

they needed different fuels. She needed tenderness,

she needed time, she needed, you know, the same

respect. You know, she needed their lovey -dovey

things that really made her feel wonderful. Different

fuels, but we both need to fill each other. And

I very soon discovered that if I didn't spend

time to fill her emotional tank, I very soon

saw an empty tank, and I discovered the tiger

in the tank. and the growl would begin to come

and then I would begin to criticize her but the

trouble is it was my fault because my job as

a husband is to drown the tiger in the tank because

Rachel had a profound impact on my life because

I'm a third, fourth generation British Army officer

I had never cried I don't think ever in my life

until I met Rachel And then I've never stopped

crying ever since. But she helped unlock so much

of what was a completely, you know, emotion dead,

totally emotion dead British Army officer. But

it was one of the most wonderful days of my life

when... Quite a number of years later, we were

in Malaysia. We'd been crusade directors So I

had been a crusade director with Reinhard Bonnker

for about four years traveling around ahead of

Reinhard Bonnker organizing his crusades Rachel

had just been a wonderful wife with our two kids

just following me along. She'd never preached

one message never done any Bible studies, but

She had a revelation a blinding flash of revelation

in Malaysia that God just spoke to her He gave

her exactly the same scripture he gave to me

about blowing the trumpet in Zion, proclaiming

to the nation, prepare for war. And God just

told her to get up and begin to start declaring

spiritual warfare in the churches. This was in

an Islamic nation. And overnight she changed.

And I told the story of how I watched her in

one meeting changing from little Rachel to suddenly

ministry Rachel, literally in one moment of that

revelation. And I... she beckoned from down the

front row, said, Dani, I've got a little, I've

got a word from the Lord. And as that male chauvinist

that I was, I thought it was a little five -minute

picture, nice little thing, you know, very patronizing.

And she took the microphone and I just was shocked.

as she preached without notes for an hour just

under the anointing of God with such a lion roar

inside her drew a lion across the platform and

just a devil this far no further back off and

I thought wow what's happened to this woman and

the anointing of God was so strong as she was

preaching people were just looking dazed and

people even saw angels proclaiming, blowing trumpets

above her head. That was one of the members of

the government, just saying, what are those angels

over her head? And people couldn't even come

up on the platform, because they touched the

platform, they just fell down in the spirit.

But the thing is, that lifted, and then Little

Rachel appeared again. And I began to discover,

it's in the anointing, in Christ, under the anointing,

there's neither male nor female. And I began

to discover there was Little Rachel, my wonderful

little Rachel and there was anointed ministry

Rachel and the thing is anointed ministry Rachel

is not it's not the whole thing you've got it

and I know you've all come to know little Rachel

too haven't you she's very mischievous very naughty

full of fun but it's you've got it you've got

to see that because the anointing is not the

person and I began to respect the anointing As

I shared yesterday, ever since that moment, I've

been called Rachel's husband all around the world.

But that is a great honor. 1 Corinthians 11 -12

says that the wife is the glory of the husband.

She is the outshining of that relationship. And

if there's a good relationship, she is the radiance,

the reflection of what is happening in that relationship,

the reflection of what God is doing right inside

there. And we very soon discovered that we had

to flow together. In 1 Peter chapter 3 verse

1 Peter 3:7

7, it talks about husbands being considerate

with their wives and treating them as a weaker

vessel, but as heirs together of the gracious

gift of life. And we are heirs together. There

was no sense that I could get into God by myself,

you know, I was fed up with Rachel, get into

God by myself and go for it. It didn't work.

We had to come together. We were as together

of the greatest gracious gift of life and even

though ministry Rachel was very strong very anointed

like a lion Roaring sometimes like a general

little Rachel needed love tenderness consideration

respect two different people The sad thing is

that we came back from the mission field and

I'm going to be very honest here We came back

from the mission field and we went into a denomination

at the time. It was a charismatic denomination

which didn't believe in women ministers. And

so, not being rebellious people, Rachel was really

put back in the cage. And eagles don't do well

in a cage. They get sick. They get, they begin

to molt. And Rachel was sick all the time for

about three years. She really was damaged. I

was taken away with the men to be with the men.

And Rachel was just, she was actually told, go

and teach the women how to clean the houses and

clean their toilets, their bathrooms. Unbelievable.

patronizing. But she was sick all the time. It

damaged our communication. Even though we had

flown like two eagles for those years with Reinhard

Banke, back in that wrong religious atmosphere,

that killed the communication between us. And

it was serious. I remember three years into that,

Rachel was in hospital. I think it was on an

Easter day. And suddenly a cry came from deep

within her, just saying, I've got to be me. I've

got to be me. She was born to preach. She knew

that. She just said, God, let me out. And some

precious man of God saw what was happening in

the spirit. And he said to Rachel, he took us

out to a meal and he said to Rachel, hey, look,

we've never, we believe in women preachers, but

we've never had one. He said, I've got a conference

of 2000. I want you to take the main sessions.

And we went to that conference. He'd never heard

her preach but God just told him to release her.

We went to that conference and our communication

really was very bad at that time and I remember

her going up on the stage. She took the microphone

and suddenly I began, I just started sobbing

because I saw the eagle coming out again. I saw

her beginning to fly. I saw the prophetic accuracy,

like eagles' eyes touching people. The power

of God just fell. People were weeping, and just

the intercession just began to come up from the

people. And I vowed then I would never allow

anybody to put Rachel back in that cage, because

we're called to be one. We're called to be two

eagles. We've actually, we've been, for the last

three years, we've... been in quite a difficult

spiritual situation. I've gone back into the

Anglican world, and it's been difficult because

we've had to adjust to that. Because I'm a Pentecostal,

I'm an Assemblies of God minister for the last

18 years. But I've had to adjust to the Anglican,

that's Episcopalian world. And we found that

difficult. We've had to really adjust to that.

I want to talk about three crises. which tend

to make the glory fade in our communication.

And they come from this passage here in Ephesians.

The first one is a crisis and a misunderstanding

of headship because here it talks about the husband

being the head of the wife as Christ is the head

of the church. The husband is the head of the

wife as Christ is the head of the church. his

body of which he is a savior. Now, headship has

been eroded by a lot of feminism. A lot of feminists

deliberately eroded that thing. And actually,

it has eroded the security which women had before.

But because of our misunderstanding of headship,

we treat it in the way the world sees headship.

But if you've studied kingdom, you'll know that

every kingdom value is upside down. to the worldly

values. If you want to go up in the kingdom,

you've got to go down. If you want to live in

the kingdom, you've got to die. If you want to

receive, you've got to give. If you want to be

head, guess where you've got to go? You've got

to lay your life down. And it talks about it

here. It talks about husbands love your wives

as Christ loved the church and gave himself up

for her. The place of headship is a laid -down

life. That is the only way that we can be respected

for our headship, that we're willing to lay our

lives down. Now, how did Christ become my head?

Christ became my head by looking at me and seeing

that I was to blame, but he was willing to take

the blame and lay his life down. And men, don't

kill me. But when you know that your wife is

wrong, according to your perspective, to become

head. You don't put yourself above. You actually

are willing to take the blame for that situation,

to lay your life down, lay out the drawbridge,

and allow her to come out of that place of isolation.

And that is how headship works. We realize that

in an argument, and when there's a dividing wall

between us, that the only way of unity is for

the husband to be willing to take the blame.

Darling, I'm so sorry that I've allowed this

to happen. I'm so sorry this has happened. I'm

so sorry that we've got this division between

us. Even when you know, and maybe even she knows,

that she's in the wrong. But by criticizing and

by accusing, you just shut the door even more.

It's by putting yourself down. that suddenly

she can breathe again because she knows she's

secure, that actually she can come out and be

one with you. Now what it does, it shows in this

passage it does three things. He gave himself

up for one, to make her holy. That means to make

her special. Holy means exclusively set apart

for you. And when a wife realizes that you're

willing to lay your life down and to take the

blame in situations, give her that security,

she will do anything for you. If you're going

to stand back from her and criticize and criticize,

there's no way she's going to separate herself

exclusively for you. And that's what happens.

Suddenly they're willing to open up and make

themselves exclusively available. The second

area is to cleanse her with the washing with

water through the word. Now that's a picture

of taking hold of burdens because just as Christ

took the burdens of sin off mankind. Man wasn't

made to carry the burden of sin. Christ was.

Christ could take on that burden of sin. That's

why he's the burden bearer. We cast all our sin

onto him. But in a married situation, the wife

is not born made to carry emotional stress. She's

got to have time to offload it onto her husband.

It doesn't, it shouldn't. affect us. We should

be able to take it off and then just offload

it elsewhere. And so there has to be time, has

to be time, where we talk. And this is one of

the things that is most robbed in ministry people,

that we just don't get that quality time. We

have to fight for that time, certainly in our

current position. We have to fight for that time,

where Rachel can offload some of the stress and

the pressure that is on her. And then that washing

with water through the word, just allowing those

words to touch and to heal and to make secure.

That finally brings us to the thing of, to present

her to himself as a radiant church. That means

there is a place of radiance. The wife begins

to carry a glory when she's done that. When there's

a sense of being valued, secure, then there's

a new sense of head up, as Rachel calls it, shoulders

back, a sense of radiance, confidence. because

she is loved. So that's the first crisis, a misunderstanding

of headship. The second one is a crisis of fatherhood.

And I think we often, in religious circles, we

have a sine eye model of fatherhood, laying down

the law. We think that brings security. We lay

down the law. We do this. Rather than the Calvary

model of fatherhood, where we're willing to come

down and walk alongside and just lift people

up. And I know certainly that this is one of

the greatest crises we have in our society. It's

not a crisis of leadership, it's a crisis of

fatherhood. Of people being able to, of children

feeling that they have their father alongside

them. We had a friend who's from Argentina who

came to England in the early 90s to try and stir

up revival in England. Now he brought with him

an 11 year old son. who got really traumatized

because he left his friends, his culture, his

language, everything he left behind. Now his

father was having a great time preaching and

doing everything. And so slowly the gap between

father and son just got wider and wider. And

Marcus got really offended with God and just

said, God, this is not fair. I'm doing all of

your business. Why aren't you looking after my

son? And God just said to him, Marcus, you're

not fathering him. And he said, but of course

I am. And by then, you know, he was really laying

down the rules. Sinai model. He was making sure

his son was in at this time and did this and

that. And so he was very much a head down Sinai

model father. And God said to him, Marcus, that's

not how I fathered you. I came into your mess.

I came alongside you. I didn't criticize you.

I didn't count your sin against you. I was with

you until you... connected with me and then all

that was on me came on to you. And he said, Marcus,

I want you to give up some of your revival preaching.

Take time with your son. You know, it was quite

a difficult thing for him. He had to ring up

and cancel quite a lot of his assignments and

some of his preaching. And his son had gone into

a completely different culture. He used to get

up very early in the morning and watch satellite

TV to watch all the American football and all

the stuff that you have on your TVs. But he just

he wasn't in this world and he was also into

a lot of youth music which his dad just did not

like and so He said okay, I'm gonna get into

God so next morning early his son was sitting

there watching TV and sat dad came in bleary

-eyed sitting beside him and just began to be

with him some was really suspicious and Then

he began to sit with his son and listen to some

of this music learn the names of some of the

the artists that his son really liked and it

took time to build trust. But after a period

of about three months of sitting there one early

morning with him next to his son, something happened.

Something connected between father and son. He

looked at his son. The son looked at him and

he thought, I've got a dad. I've got a dad. I've

got a dad. And you know the law of bonding. No

bond, no transfer. As soon as you bond, there's

a transfer. And everything, the passions for

God that was on Marcus, transferred to his son.

His son just began to just dive into everything

his father was in. He gathered all his non -Christian

friends, began to read the Bible to them. He

began a youth revival with all these youth. And

Marcus was laughing with us when he told us this

story. He said, guys, you won't believe it. He

said, last week my son criticized me. He said,

dad, what are you doing for the kingdom? My group

are fasting three days a week. What are you doing?

Now that is fatherhood. And I think in religious

circles, we've got the wrong model. And then

thirdly, there's a crisis of identity. We've

all heard about the men are from Mars, women

are from Venus. Yes, we are different species.

It's a delight getting to know the other species.

But it is true that Adam was born into function.

He was born to do a job. And so men relate according

to their function. The first thing they say is,

what are you doing? What are you doing? So men

always relate according to function. A woman

was birthed not into function, but into relationship.

So women instantly relate. And so we've got to

realize the difference between men and women

in that area. It takes a while for men to get

more relational. So a lot of men live behind

facades. And that is what Adam did. He said,

I was afraid and therefore I hid. And I see so

many men, when I was a businessman for five years,

running a company in London. I used to go into

London by train. I used to look at all these

smart, really chic looking men. They look great

on the outside, you know, the latest laptop and

mobile, everything else. But inside, you could

just see straight through the facade, there was

a desperate little young boy, terrified of a

lack of approval, desperate for somebody to notice

them, desperate because they were so fearful

of failure. All they needed was the father's

approval and appreciation. Now, sadly, feminism

has eroded a lot of the male security because,

you know, feminism tends to, it's a lie. Feminism

is a lie which says that if women can have the

same function, they can have the same value.

And the lie is that our value is according to

our function because your value has got absolutely

nothing to do with what you do. It's who you

are that matters. It's not what I do, it's what

I am that matters. And who I am, they always

say, is dependent on whose I am. If I don't really

have that sense of the father's love and the

father's approval, then the whole time I get

onto that treadmill of just constantly trying

to perform, constantly trying to perform, constantly

trying to win people's favor. And that can be

a killer in marriage. It can really kill you

in your business life. You just are struggling

all the time to cope with life. A lot of the

mindsets that we have in this area come from

the way we were brought up. That's what my dad

did. That's what I'm going to do. You know, we've

long since forgotten why we do it. They're traditions.

I love the book Wild at Heart, which talks about

men, about the deep instincts in men, that they

have a battle to fight, an adventure to live,

and a beauty to win. a battle to fight, an adventure

to live, and a beauty to win. And I think when

women value that and don't crush it, you see

the release of that. And they begin to discover

that part of them when they really connect to

the Father God. We had a man in our church who

was adopted. And he told us a story. It's really

impacted us. He said, because he didn't know

who he was. He just, you know, he was adopted.

He hadn't got a clue who his father was. And

one day he discovered who his maternal, who his

mother was. And when he got to know her, the

first question he had was, Mum, have you got

a picture of my dad? And he said this amazing

thing that really impacted me. He said, my mum

took out this old box of photographs and took

out a photograph of my dad when he was about

the same age as me. He said, the moment I saw

my dad, I knew who I was. The moment I saw my

dad, I knew who I was. You know, he saw the same

kind of features and suddenly there was that

bond. He just knew this is where I come from.

And for men spiritually, that is so important.

Until you know your dad, until you know that

you're known and loved by the father, it's not

an option. It is absolutely critical that you've

had an impact from the father's love. Once you

know... religious and politics and everything

else. You know, we end up killing each other

rather than defending the ones that we were supposed

to defend. Finally, instead of being the servant

leaders, the enemies twisted it around and made

us be dominant and controlling. Now I just quickly

end up with what I call five hindrances to...

And each of these five are the things that have

eroded those five pillars. The first one is an

absence of trust. You see, without trust, intimacy

fades. There has to be trust, unconditional trust.

And that means men and women, you've got to get

in the light. 1 John 1 .7 says that if you're

in the light... You have perfect koinonia, perfect

oneness. One in heart, one in spirit, one in

purpose. And the blood of Jesus is able to cleanse

every area of life. There's got to be a commitment

right at the beginning that there are no secrets.

Absolute truth. Completely in the light, you

share everything together. Otherwise, if there's

areas of no -go areas or dark areas, you will

just find the intimacy will fade because there's

no trust between the two of you. We've got to

risk opening up. But sadly, because of our background,

many of us have been wounded too much. We've

been betrayed too many times. We've been lied

to and abused too much to really risk it. No

matter what your wound, it's worth the risk.

It's worth opening up because actually it's only

in the opening up that you're able to be touched

and receive the love and the intimacy back and

become that intimate friend again. The second

thing is the fear of conflict and rejection.

You see, so many people have gone through times

of betrayal, been rejected, and because part

of your psyche is you react and you're fearful

of the impact of rejection and conflict, we end

up with this artificial harmony. Again, you know

the proclaiming prophet, the one who speaks out.

You don't speak out. You know you hold back because

you think that if you really share what you think,

You'll be rejected. You'll be criticized. And

so you end up with this artificial harmony between

the two of you. You never really share what you're

feeling deep inside. It's that deep part of you.

Deep doesn't speak out anymore. It's blocked

up. And hear me right here, but it is good to

have a really good row. You see, conflict is

creative. You've got to break the silence. You've

got to be now. I'm not talking about killing

each other I'm talking about expressing what

you're feeling inside if you don't open it up

and share They never you know they never come

to understand. What is going on inside? There's

a cap on it. It's block you have this artificial

harmony artificial piece That is not marriage

There's got to be a sense that you're able to

really have a rough and tumble of trying to get

each other to see through each other's spectacles.

Because when you see through their perspective,

you begin to think, whoa, I begin to see now.

And you see from each other's perspective, and

slowly you get to a place of real harmony, real

living oneness, real cardinonia. But if you're

always frightened of being rejected, you'll never

do that. You've got to be willing. to give each

other license to share deeply. The third area

is then a lack of real covenant commitment. I

know we believe in that, but actually deep inside

sometimes we're not totally given. If there is

not a leaving, then there is no cleaving. And

some men find it difficult, even some women find

it difficult, to leave. You find some men who

are still clinging to their mother or to their

parents, even to some fantasy of an old flame,

and some women who are still so clinging to their

mother. So when there is no leaving, there's

no cleaving. There has to be a leaving of every

other relationship. There has to be a sense of

total commitment, total dedication together.

Given, for better for worse, for richer for poorer,

you've got to come in to have that oneness. And

you begin to discover that you're not completely

together when you are always talking about you

and, you know, you always do this. And your language

is always about you and me rather than us. When

you retrain the way you speak, you develop a

language of usness. You know, it's wonderful

when there is no longer a sense of my gender

and your gender, my rights, your rights, a sense

that there's us. And I love the wedding ceremony.

In fact, I've encouraged many of our couples

to do it in our church now. It's one which comes

from Portugal where both couples carry a candle,

a lit candle to the altar and they light one

big new candle and then they blow their candle

out. Now, if you don't blow your candle out in

marriage, it's big trouble. If you don't come

to the end of me, my rights, It's big trouble

because really marriage is about Gordon dying,

Rachel dying, and a new creation, Gordon and

Rachel. And until there's that language of us,

the new creation, there is no harmony, there's

no oneness. It's always about fighting my pitch,

fighting my place. You've got to die to your

rights and come in together to be that one. It's

total commitment to the cause. And you see, once

you've committed yourself to that cause of total

reconciliation, then you begin to go out from

that to a place where you're reconciled. You're

able to reconcile in the community and in the

world. The fourth area of dysfunction is the

whole area of independence. I told you how independent

I was and how proud I was. But the whole area

of independence and pride. And you see, this

makes the defending warrior the one who is constantly,

because of pride and independence, battling against

you. And you end up with anger, you end up with

each other getting offended, getting locked up.

Now, in my marriage, I am a very persistent person.

Rachel calls it stubbornness. I call it persistent.

Now, that's my background. I'm a very persistent,

single -track person. But you can't live with

that stubborn thing of I'm right. Because you

see, the truth is that men and women look through

life through different spectacles. I look at

life through my spectacles, and this is what

I describe as happening. Rachel looks through

her spectacles, and she knows she's right. This

is what is happening. And you very soon discover

that you're both seeing different things. And

you know that you're right according to what

you see, but they also know that they are right

according to what they see. A long time ago learned

that it's better to be reconciled than to be

right. If you stand on your rights, according

to what you see through your spectacles, you

will stay divided forever. You've got to be reconciled.

And when there's a division of what you see and

a dispute about the way you see things, just

join hands together and just face away from each

other and just declare God's presence. in that

room and begin to start hammering down that wall

that's between you. And you'll begin to find

that God comes. You have to give up your independence,

have to give up your pride. You've got to practice

those famous words, darling, I was wrong. Should

we practice that to each other? Look at your

spouse and say, darling, I was wrong. Now you've

also got to be willing to practice those other

words. Come on, you've got to practice the other

word is darling. I forgive you Now look at them

darling. I forgive you Now you've got a choice

If you stand in your pride Then you end up one

Peter says you end up fighting God if you end

up humbling yourself you begin to get grace finally

the lack of mutual submission Now hear me in

this. That passage I read to you was, submit

to one another out of reverence for Christ. It

is not wives submitting to their husbands. It's

submit to one another. Now when there's a lack

of mutual submission one to the other, a lack

of each of you serving each other, then you end

up with a hierarchy. Now we were never called

to be hierarchical. You know, in the Godhead,

Jesus is absolutely co -equal with the Father,

but He chooses to submit to the Father. He chooses

to submit to the Father. Exactly the same in

a love relationship. There is a divine order

of love and respect of husband and wife. The

husband lays his life down and earns the right

to be the head, and the wife chooses to respect.

Now hear me on this. God even calls you to respect

people that do not deserve to be respected because

The Bible says so because actually when you respect

somebody who knows they don't deserve to be respected

They grow into what you see of them Because as

you respect them they begin to think whoa I don't

deserve that I need to I need to earn that and

they change But you see that is what respect

does it gives you space to breathe and change

Criticism tears down the head. We've got to be

accountable to each other. Then we grow, we change.

We mustn't crush and control each other. We've

got to use our words to fill each other's tanks,

to build each other up, not destroy each other.

Now, Rachel taught me this, but only two whole

people can make a whole marriage. So many of

us come into marriage with deep wounds. And then

we end up hiding behind defense mechanisms, fear

mechanisms. But there's no hiding behind strongholds.

You've got to deal with every stronghold, and

you've got to make your marriage a safe place

where every stronghold is dealt with so that

you heal the woundedness, you heal the diseased

hearts. And you need to know how desperate God

is to reconcile. As a church, normally we criticize

people who get divided. separated divorced God

is desperate desperate to reconcile and I'll

let Rachel share this story because it's her

story but about Dudley do you want to come and

share that darling and then maybe you can just

take it from here No, it's just I've lost one

of his pillars because he's muddled the order

seven He'd shuffle the order I'm not Now you

know why I'm spoiled because I'm always right

I Can feel all the men going But Gordon asked

me to share this story of I'm Dudley and I'm

not sure if I haven't already shared this story

here But it's just the story of the incredible

redeeming heart of God for marriage. And it was

when I was up in Dudley speaking on spiritual

warfare, did I share the story about the two

people from Peterborough? Have I shared that?

Okay, I haven't then. And I was up there for

doing a three or four day conference on strategic

spiritual warfare for pastors. There was about

500 and something pastors registered. We'd done

the Thursday and done the Friday. And the Saturday

was the big open day of the conference and they

were expecting over a thousand people. And they

got it sort of all advertised that this was going

to be strategic spiritual warfare to change cities.

So I wake up nine o 'clock in the morning and

I had... four sessions that day. And as I walked

in, the young guy who was on the sort of media

booth, he said, have you got your titles? Because

I only had them for Thursday and Friday. And

I said, oh, didn't I give you Saturday? He said,

well, no, it wasn't on the sheet. And I thought,

oh. because you see that morning as I'd woken

up God said to me I want you to speak a marriage

and I'm thinking God I've got five hundred something

pastors registered I've got over a thousand people

all coming for strategic spiritual warfare to

change your city and you're saying talk a marriage

you know I don't talk a marriage if Gordon's

not around you see God had to break that paradigm

and I started with you without him but I said

I just don't do that and he said um I'm asking

you to talk a marriage. So I get my stuff together

which I had and it's like nothing flowed. And

at nine o 'clock, and I've got to be there 9

.30, I'm still fussing. I've had no breakfast,

I've hardly shat, I'm still resting with God.

I'm thinking, oh no God, I really don't want

to do it. He said, I want you to talk a marriage.

So I walk into the booth and the guy says, well

what's it? And I said, well it's going to be

marriage. He said, that's a new view on spiritual

warfare. And I said, I know, don't talk about

it. So I set up, so he said, well, what's the

sessions? I said, marriage one, marriage two,

marriage three, marriage four. And so I start

and I do this session on marriage, first and

second. I taught some of the stuff I taught on

the battle of the marriage bed, of breaking open

the veil, of having that real interview. And

then after lunch, I just said, look. After lunch,

we're going to have a purity night. We're really

going to ask God to come. Please don't go away

at lunch time. We're going to come and deal with

this stuff. That's when we're going to process

it and have ministry time. Well, as the ministry

time came, there was this man standing here.

And I took the senior pastor and I just said,

excuse me, would you just come and pray with

me? I really feel this man was deeply something.

We need to pray for this man. And there was this,

as I prayed for me, he said, I'm David, I come

from Peterborough. Now that's about 350 miles

away on the East Coast from where Dudley is.

And I'm thinking, why in the world are you here

on a Saturday morning for strategic, you know,

what made that? He said, why are you here today?

He said, God woke me up at four o 'clock in the

morning. He said, I haven't been in church for

over two and a half years. I was a senior elder

for the church in the Peterborough area, but

I got into adultery. got out the church, haven't

been in church since, and have been through a

really deep depression time. But, this morning

I thought I need a happy Saturday. And I remembered

Dudley... was the place my mother -in -law lived.

And I used to come up here with my wife regularly,

and it has a great market town and places to

visit and cute cafes and that. And so it was

such a great day. I thought, I'm going to go

to Dudley. I've got so many happy memories of

places to hang out. I'm going to go have a day

at Dudley. As soon as I got here and parked the

car, the heavens opened. It poured with rain.

All the market cleared up. You couldn't be outside.

So I thought, oh great, what do I do now? And

as I was walking back to my car, I saw the big

poster saying, Rachel Hickson in town and such

and such. And she said, he said, I remembered

you were the last person I really heard preach

and impacted me before everything went pear shaped

and I lost my marriage. And I thought, nobody

knows what I've done here. Maybe I could come

in and find God again. So I came and you stand

up and talk of marriage. He said, I thought I

was safe on city taking. He said, God so dealt

with me. Help me. I blew my marriage, blew my

covenant, broke everything. Help me. We just

ministered and prayed to him. God fell upon him.

Then, I mean, there were literally hundreds of

people had come forward. And I remember I walked

over this side and I saw this woman back against

the wall here and I began to pray for her. And

I said, what's happened to you? She said I've

been so self -righteous, so self -important because

about two and a half years ago my marriage broke

up. I was married to one of the senior elders

of a church and I've always thought it was his

fault that he was wrong and today God's nailed

me and I just realized that I am in a mess and

I need help. And I don't know what to do or how

to make it right or what should be the way. And

I said, well, sweetheart, could you just come?

Walk right up the front. And could you look right

across there and see if you recognize this? Oh

my goodness, that's David. So we prayed for her

and I said excuse me. Can I just ask you? Why

are you in Dudley today? She said yeah, I live

in Peterborough still live there three now But

she said I made an arrangement to see my mother

today to take her out So I arrived here and came

to our home and as I knocked on her door the

neighbor said oh no Dorothy's gone out on a bus

tour with all the old people. She said she'd

be back at four She said I was so furious that

my mother had forgotten I've driven all the way

got up at four o 'clock in the morning to come

and take her out for a day and she's gone off

with all her old people on the bus and says oh

I'll be back at four for tea so she said I was

so angry that I was driving home and I then I

thought oh Rachel Hickson that's the last person

you remember how does God do that Anyway, we

prayed for them, we saw them come through. But

listen to this. They have a daughter called Sandra.

And at this exact time, Sandra was in New York

working with Bill Wilson's ministry. It just

happened that she was sharing a room with a girl

called Heather, Hedy, who was one of our congregation

from our St. Albans churches. And when they had

got together in September, and had come together

as interns for six months and sharing a room.

They began to talk and share and Sandra had shared

the devastation of and the humiliation of her

parents Ministry marriage breaking up that they

were separated and they've got this three months

ago sharing a room and she just kept saying the

more I work with these kids on the streets the

more God's putting a Passionate me that someone's

got to do something to stop marriage is breaking

We've got to reverse the curse. So how do you

go from our churches? Well, we need to pray and

fast. Why don't we do it? 21 -day prayer and

fasting for your parents' marriage. Come on,

Sandra, what do you want to see? So they wrote

down the dream, and the dream was that by Christmastime,

Sandra would come home from New York, and they

would be able to sit around the Christmas table

with mom, dad, and all the kids, and they would

be able to renew their vows and say sorry, and

the marriage would be healed. So they're praying

and fasting in New York. The 21st day of their

fast is Saturday October whatever it was I'm

in Dudley getting up to preach on strategic being

and God literally shakes me marriage marriage

marriage wakes up two people 350 miles away makes

a man think of a mother -in -law And says you've

got to go up to Dudley makes the wife think they

drive all the way. God totally does the marriage

and on December the 22nd or 21st I think it was

they renewed their vows back in the church and

on Christmas Day Sandra sat round the Christmas

family table with everything healed whole for

the glory of God. There's no one like God. Absolutely

no one like God. Literally he moves nations.

Because this is time. I just want to say one

thing because Gordon's really spoken to the men.

If we read that Ephesians five passages, really

interesting ladies. Never are we commanded to

love our husbands. I don't know if you've noticed

that, but what we are commanded to do is respect.

Why? I think men are commanded, actually, love

your wife. It's actually not an option, it's

a command. Why? Because there's something from

a woman that naturally responds with love. Because

of the very thing that Gordon said, Adam was

created for the function to work, to steward

the garden. So there is something in the destiny

of a man that's created for function Woman was

created to come alongside man and break the independence

because it remember God created women specifically

for relation because he looked at Adam and so

it is not good for Adam to be alone so he created

Eve to be his parapetis his helper the one to

come aside so woman was created to be a completer

to be a helper the one alongside do you get what

we're saying here so the most detrimental Pain

to a woman is to not love her and affirm and

appreciate because her very essence of being

From the file was created to be a helper to be

a support to come alongside and so We don't need

to be commanded to love. It's an instinctive

response If you pastor, how many men would agree

with me? When you pastor abusive situations,

I'm staggered again and again at the love a woman

will give even to an abusive father, abusive

husband, the loyalty that... How many would say

that it's different when you counsel a man or

a woman? Because there is something very created

in there. Actually, what is not so instinctive

in a woman is to respect the function of work.

Women, it really does our heads in sometimes.

We think, what is your issue? Why are you working,

working? Give it a break. Turn that stupid cell

phone off. Chuck the computer out the women.

Talk, boy, talk. Of course we don't say that,

do we? That comes from the heart. Because you

see, for a woman's rationale to be so function

-orientated is strange. Where for us to be relationship

-orientated is normal. Now we've got to understand

women, but just as that is so devastating when

we don't hear the love, tenderness, atmosphere,

because it's so much out of sound. When we disrespect,

it says, now women you must respect your husband.

And that word respect is to give honor and position

in place. And it's actually to do with their

function. So do you get what I'm saying the love

language thing because Gordon said early on in

our marriage I know you love me, but I must know

you respect me I need to know you trust me. That's

another way we lose. How many of you men identify

with that? I need to know respect and trust.

I need to know you're going to let me go. That

you actually respect and trust. So the whole

women's issue stuff, when we begin to tear down

the respect and trust thing, that is so detrimental

to men. And that's why feminism is such a killer.

Because it takes men out of their role. Because

men were created for a role. That isn't who they

are, but there is a satisfaction. I love watching

men really putting shoulder to shoulder and getting

work done together. There is something when men

do that which is totally different when girls

do it together. There's something about men putting

shoulder to shoulder and getting a job done.

I love watching you guys just work and the way

you serve the women's conference. There is a

camaraderie, there's a teamwork, there's an accent,

and yeah, there's stuff. But you know, you get

the boys out in the yard. Come on, we're gonna

throw this shit up. to build this up. There's

something in the way that men do that, fellowship,

relate, connect, which is different from... But

if you disrespect and tear that down all the

time and erode it, well, what are you doing in

the work anyway? It's not worth that much. That

is killing them as much as to us. It would be

saying, well, I don't really love you. You're

not really that special there's can you can you

understand and I think for us women we've got

in our environment of 21st century where work

has become so strong there's a they can often

become a bitterness in women towards the workplace

which then creates a language of disrespect and

dishonor and Devaluing what they do in their

function, which is as detrimental in the marriage

as the guy as your husband coming home and say,

well, I'm not really sure I love you today. And

so we've got to break those curse languages and

really do it. And it's not that we worship their

workplace, but we help them understand their

language, because so much of their headship expression

comes out of a job done. And of course, it's

who they are. But part of who they are is expressed

through their hands and what they do in a very

different way than it is with women. And I've

understood that more and more. Because I wrestled

with it. I thought, why does the Bible command

a man to laugh and command a woman to respect

and submit? And I've traced it. And of course

the essence is there that in response, as responders,

we laugh. We're not told not to laugh. But you

understand what I mean. We're actually commanded

respect, because that's not an instinctive response.

And so we need those graces. We need to respect.

Amen? Well, why don't we come and just pray.

If you are interested in hearing other podcasts

or contacting Life Bible Church, go to www .lifebiblechurch

.org or call us at 541 -995 -8282.