Election Part 1 | 2006 Calvinism Study | Pastor Carl Henry

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be going through a series on the subject of Calvinism.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know some of you are just joining with us tonight.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the ladies have been back with my wife going through the sessions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And some of you who are just getting back in tonight because of a Wana getting started.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this subject has been coming up all quite often in the church here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some people asking questions about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll think about going through this on

[SPEAKER_00]: During Sunday's going recording it, and then after praying about it, I thought, you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't we just go ahead and take care of it on Wednesday evenings?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we've been going through the subject of Calvinism, what it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is detailed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Matter of fact, this evening we're going to be looking at the second part of what Calvinism teaches.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be giving you some of his quotes and those who quote about him to show you what the

[SPEAKER_00]: This is deep.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not one of those real easy surface.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here it is, you know, like the total depravity of man, that was really easy to see.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have a lot more verses to look at with this particular subject because we're going to be looking at the word elect and election.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is what God does for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, just so that you know going into this, we believe that God takes you and I, and that because we are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are particularly chosen by God, and you are a very precious person in God's sight, and you are elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: just like you are a saint.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're a lot of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, your wise might not think you are a saint, gentlemen.

[SPEAKER_00]: But God says that you are a saint.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of things that have been given to you as a result of believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's this old saying, you know, this little parable that the world always looks at, you know, and it says, which came first?

[SPEAKER_00]: The chicken or the egg?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we do know the answer to that, don't we?

[SPEAKER_00]: And as creation's God made all things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he made the chicken and then it produced.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we actually know the answer to that, believe it or not, if you didn't know that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet that little parable talks about sometimes it's hard to see which one came first.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what they're trying to show through that little saying, and what we are going to be doing in this subject also through the next couple of weeks, because we're not going to finish it up tonight, is we're going to be seeing how we are also chosen by God, but

[SPEAKER_00]: and then made you sanctify by the Holy Spirit and then did all these things for you after he chose you first or is it that God chose you as a result?

[SPEAKER_00]: I know Jeff and I were talking yesterday in the phone and he was bringing this whole subject up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of, you know, as we have been taught in fundamental churches that we have no problem with election, predestination for nation, all of these major subjects that we're going to be looking at and have looked at some of those.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have no problem with those.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a matter of defining what came first.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we're doing through this series.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to show you how, in particular, I get it really excited about some of these texts.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to get into them.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I got a whole deranged back, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: I got to wait.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of these will actually see Lord willing next week on this, on this subject.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much, Jerry.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, those who were not here, we're going to show you again what the Tulip theory is, and this is a way that mankind has in their human reasoning developed basically what Calvin was teaching.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the T, we will already dealt with, and that is the total depravity of man.

[SPEAKER_00]: The U, we're going to start looking at tonight, is the unconditional election.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thirdly, we're going to see limited atonement.

[SPEAKER_00]: I-A-R-E-R-E-S, this will grace.

[SPEAKER_00]: P is the perseverance of the saints.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we will look at the L-I-P. And I'm going to be honest with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not really in a hurry to get this done.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would rather take my time with this so that you can understand it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are going to be looking at every verse.

[SPEAKER_00]: every verse, and we're going to be looking at verses, honestly, in all of the years that I have passed, all of the years that I have been taught, college, the whole nine yards, I ain't going to be going through verses that I don't remember anybody ever teaching me what they meant.

[SPEAKER_00]: Entire texts, wrapping around books, wrapping around verses that are used by the Calvinists that will teach that God chose you, you never believed.

[SPEAKER_00]: for salvation, and that's what we're really zeroing in on with this whole subject.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the U is defined this way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Unconditional election means by unconditional election, Calvin meant that some are elected to heaven while others are elected to hell, and that this election is unconditional, meaning they have nothing to do with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't have faith, you didn't believe, you didn't repent, you did zero.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you are elect, you're elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're not one of the elect, you can't be saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's impossible for you to go to heaven because God didn't look at you and say, I elect you or choose you.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is holy on God's part and without condition.

[SPEAKER_00]: By unconditional election, Calvin meant that God has already decided who will be saved and who will be lost.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the individual has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can only hope that God has elected him for heaven and not for hell.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's basically the description of what unconditional election means.

[SPEAKER_00]: went through the principles of two of theory, and after I was done, I had a sweet little lady who had gone to, ineptic, the town, first Baptist Church of that town, and she said these words, pastor, I couldn't wait till you were done with the series to come up to you and tell you something.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, what's that?

[SPEAKER_00]: She goes, I was always told, I was a Calvinist.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I never understood why I was told I was a Calvinist.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now that you've explained what a Calvinist is, I'm not a Calvinist.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought, thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that was probably one of the best compliments a teacher ever could have is that they were able to understand then what the concepts are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Matter of fact, I've had people that I've talked to who said they were Calvinist, that as I began to talk to them about their salvation, they had to deny the very principles of Calvinism while they gave their testimony.

[SPEAKER_00]: Matter of fact, I asked one person, I said, so your Calvinists, absolutely, hyper Calvinists, it's a drilling, all points, that's okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I said, so, talked to me about when you were saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I started giving me your testimony about, you know, I ever did church setting, and they went forward, named by the Jesus into their heart.

[SPEAKER_00]: And about that point, I say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what do you mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: I said, so what you're telling me is that you personally believe in Jesus,

[SPEAKER_00]: You acknowledge that you are a sinner, and you invited Jesus into your heart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're not a Calvinist, then.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you can't choose God, because only God chooses you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have nothing to do with it at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this particular doctrine, as we are going to look at this, is the one where a hyper Calvinist

[SPEAKER_00]: in the area of missions or evangelism or an invitation will say none of the above are necessary because if they who are in the pew are elect it doesn't matter if we have an invitation or not because they're in.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to believe they're going to all these things is because God chose them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Has nothing to do with their personal structure of understanding, reckoning, believing, calling on Jesus to be, to be saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so a lot of people who have been told by human reasoning what Calvinism is, when they actually sit down and talk about their own testimony, they deny the very principles

[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you sound me, I have always been a believer.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have never been lost.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have always been saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have always been born again.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would look at that person and say, you got problems.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the Calvinists has to say that, because according to the total depravity, only those who are lost are totally depraved.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those who are the elect or chosen by God, who are four ordained God knew them ahead of time are not lost.

[SPEAKER_00]: They can't be lost because they're elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they contradict themselves in that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We may give them some at the end of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, here's your sign.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the question is, can a Calvinist then truly know whether they are or are not saved?

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is no.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why, if you sit down with most mainline denominations, I'm going to tell you, the Methodist Presbyterians, a lot of the mainline denominations, if you ask those who go to church, whether they absolutely positively know if they're going to heaven or not, they will answer you, no, they won't know until they die.

[SPEAKER_00]: because they don't know if something's going to separate them at some point.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a constant instability in their life that they are hoping, and there's, of course, oftentimes is based on work, whether they're good enough to get in.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not based on faith and Christ, but even with the principles that are coming from the pulpit, they are never taught the assurance of salvation.

[SPEAKER_00]: how can they, if the pastor believes that they are foreordained and elected, predestined to this purpose, to this place, heaven or hell, it doesn't matter what they do, but among the preacher does, that's why most do not have an invitation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you have an invitation or a call to a person to come to Jesus?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because that person can't come to Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's only if God chose them to be one that they will then be saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so to help you with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the principle is this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now the question is again, and we will actually deal with some of these things as we go along.

[SPEAKER_00]: The question is, how do the Calvinists, hyper Calvinists, explain away a Galatians 2, 21 going into Galatians chapter 3?

Galatians 3 · chapter mention

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you even more, Romans chapter 10, the entire chapter.

Romans 10 · chapter mention

[SPEAKER_00]: How do we how do they then excuse faith of the individual?

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is that everything comes from God So God gives them that faith and if God doesn't give them that faith then they aren't believers Okay, so basically man has zero in it all zero nothing now I'm gonna get side tracked moment

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've explained this, but I'm going to briefly explain it because we do have some visitors coming in tonight with this whole thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are two sides where most who would call themselves Christian lie.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are either Calvinism or they are many in which is in the other side.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Calvinism says this, man has nothing to do with salvation.

[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't work for his salvation.

[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has zero.

[SPEAKER_00]: If there is faith coming, it's because God gave it to him and it's all God.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our many and says, yeah, Jesus died on the cross and I have to believe in him.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I have to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to keep it because if I sin, then I can lose it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's there are many inside of it that they tie together works with salvation and over here there is nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: We are neither.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are neither Calvinists and we're not our many.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're neither of those, neither of those are correct.

[SPEAKER_00]: By the fact we believe that God has his part in salvation, much of what the Calvinists would say.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, where the belief factor, which is on the responsibility of man to do, we would agree but not with the works.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're kind of right with neither of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so what we believe is that these following things, getting a little bit ahead of myself, but let me ask you a question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did man come up with salvation plan or did God?

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does God do the saving or does man do the saving?

[SPEAKER_00]: OK, we could go through this whole list of what we know Biblical what God does in salvation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there is no way you could say salvation, forgiveness is sin.

[SPEAKER_00]: The plan of salvation, heaven, hell, the list goes on, has anything to do with what man created.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's all of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: But...

[SPEAKER_00]: Does man have any responsibility in the salvation process?

[SPEAKER_00]: The Calvinist says absolutely not.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the armine will say, oh yeah, he has to then all you have faith, but he better have the works to back it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if he doesn't do enough, then he's dead, he's going to hell.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so what we teach, what we believe the Scriptures teach, is that the just shall live by faith.

[SPEAKER_00]: right we're saved by grace all these terms that we are very familiar with and so we are neither so we all understand that now good another quote on john Calvin in his institutes is the book number three chapter twenty three this quote is given by him

[SPEAKER_00]: Not all men are created with similar destiny, but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal damnation for others.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every man therefore being created for one or the other of these ends we say he is predestined either to life or death.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now the question I would have then with my life verse on this subject is this, how then

[SPEAKER_00]: If John 524 teaches us that we are passed from death to life, how can that process ever have happened then?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because according to this, if they are predestined to death, that's it.

[SPEAKER_00]: If they are predestined to life, that's it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So therefore, whether they died before faith or not, they're going to heaven.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if they die, whether there is any experience with God or not, it doesn't matter if they believe or not, they're going to hell if they are predestined to go to hell.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so these are some of the concepts that a hyper-calvinist will say.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Calvinism teaches that it is God's own choice to some people are to be damned forever and he never intended to save them.

[SPEAKER_00]: He for ordained them to go to hell, and when he offers salvation in the Bible, he does not offer it to those who were for ordained to be damned.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is offered only to those who were for ordained to be saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a Bible doctrine of God's foreknowledge, predestination, election.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most knowledgeable Christians agree that God has his controlling hand on the affairs of men.

[SPEAKER_00]: They agree that according to the Bible, he selects individuals like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, and a list really could go on, as instruments to do certain things he has planned.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most Christians agree that God may choose a nation, particularly that he did choose Israel, through which he gave the law.

[SPEAKER_00]: Prophets, eventually through whom the Savior himself would come, and there is a Bible

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, God, matter of fact, we're going to show you that not only did God elect the nation of Israel, and they are most times called the elect for the elect's sake as Matthew describes in other places as dealing with the nation of Israel.

[SPEAKER_00]: But secondly, Jesus is elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that through you off or would that throw them off?

[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus actually is called one of the elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are elect angels.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and then we're gonna see that you and I are called the elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the easiest ways that I can explain to you those who are involved heavily with Calvinism and take it, hook line and sinker, because it is based on human reasoning from biblical terms.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is somewhat like an evolutionist.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they see this concept or this theory and they say, well, if this be true, then therefore this must be true.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it begins to reason things along.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's much of what we are seeing.

[SPEAKER_00]: For instance, they are going to say, for instance, we saw the whole subject on the four knowledge of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: There in interpretation, as you've seen with Calvin, is God for new who would go to heaven, God for new, those of who would go to hell, and he had this all planned out ahead of time.

[SPEAKER_00]: We looked at every verse with the four knowledge of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: How many times did God say he for new who was going to heaven and hell?

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is zero.

[SPEAKER_00]: not one time, did God say, I am planning on this person going to hell whether they like it or not.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am, I am planning on this person over here going to heaven whether they like it or not.

[SPEAKER_00]: No where in the subject of the four knowledge of God was that ever mentioned one time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when you say the four knowledge of God right away they have in their mind the individuals

[SPEAKER_00]: And nowhere in the Scripture did it say the individual.

[SPEAKER_00]: But because they have a definition in their mind, they're going with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really hard to deprogram.

[SPEAKER_00]: And individual who has been locked into these definitions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why folks, I'm doing it the old-fashioned way.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking up the Bible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every time the word is in there, we've looked it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, we're even going to go into some swings of that word tonight with the foreknowledge of God in the subject of election, the elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here's where we begin.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, by the way, just so that you know, we are saving the best for last.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, of course, that's the preacher's pocket if you can do anything you want to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just kidding.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we are going to be looking at the Romans chapter 9, which is their classic text on the election.

Romans 9 · chapter mention

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to save that baby for last.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll give you this little tidbit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it interesting?

[SPEAKER_00]: that sandwiched between Romans 8, excuse me, Romans 9, chapter 8 and chapter 10, God puts this subject in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly, how he puts in the most clear, passage of Scripture, how all Jew or Gentile is saved right after he deals with

[SPEAKER_00]: Jacob, I love, be saw, I've hated.

[SPEAKER_00]: Pharaoh didn't have a chance.

[SPEAKER_00]: All of these verses that they will use to say, see, God planned ahead of time that these people were gonna be destroyed and never have a chance.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't an interesting, right after that, he says, but my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: for they going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves salvation, submitted themselves under the righteousness of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, he's showing it was a choice that man was making, and that's why they're going to hell.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's get started.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's dig in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Romans chapter number eight, Romans chapter number eight.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now some of these are really going to be quite simple to resolve what God is talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that you know that word elect means to be chosen.

[SPEAKER_00]: November elections come up and a couple of years we're going through the presidential elections.

[SPEAKER_00]: And let me explain to you, and I'm not trying in any way to minimize biblical election.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not trying to be irreverent towards the subject at all, but I'm going to help you to understand choice, choosing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, like a couple years, we go to the polls, and the Democrats have their person up there to run for president and vice president, and the Republicans have, and there's probably going to be somebody in the middle that's going to be going up as an independent.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you and I are going to go to the polls, and we're going to press the lever, or we're going to push the buttons, we're going to do how whatever it is that we're going to elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: That day, who is going to be president?

[SPEAKER_00]: Now let me ask you a question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to press a button and let a person that you have not looked at their character?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to vote for a person that you don't even know anything about?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or are you going to choose them based on information?

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is, I hope, you're going to elect them based on what they believe.

[SPEAKER_00]: what they stand for, maybe issues like the war or abortion or gun control or the list goes on, based on what this official, what this person believes, I'm going to choose them based on a decision that they have made rather than me saying, you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to choose them and they're going to become what I believe they ought to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Calvinist says it's the latter.

[SPEAKER_00]: God chooses you and therefore, because you are chosen, you are going to become something.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I care to differ, according to Romans 11, I can't wait to get through that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Romans 11, you'll see this whole process of, there are those who were being condemned.

[SPEAKER_00]: John chapter 3, those who were condemned, but you'll see every time it's based on a decision on the responsibility of the individual.

John 3 · chapter mention

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they'll go to Romans chapter 9, but it was before.

Romans 9 · chapter mention

[SPEAKER_00]: I will get to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start.

[SPEAKER_00]: Romans, chapter number 8, allow me to get there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got talking and didn't get to the text yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Romans chapter 8, and we're looking at verse number 33 in particular.

Romans 8 · chapter mention

[SPEAKER_00]: He says, here, who, any individual, who shall lay anything to charge of God's elect?

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a question mark there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now notice this, it is God that justifies.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, my first question is this in this particular verse.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did God say in this text, I elect certain people to heaven and certain people to

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is, no, thank you, not in that text.

[SPEAKER_00]: Matter of fact, what he says is that it is impossible for anybody to condemn the elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know why, God justified them.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what the verse means.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can anybody condemn, charge, put anything against as an accusation against the elect?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the answer is no, you know why?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because man didn't justify them.

[SPEAKER_00]: God did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Man is justified in the sight of God through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's the first one.

[SPEAKER_00]: any questions or an Allen?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as you see, I'm just trying to show you every verse that deals with the elect and then the election process.

[SPEAKER_00]: The next one is over in the book of Colossians.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here again, we're showing you that these verses do not teach that God elects certain people to heaven as was described earlier or to hell.

[SPEAKER_00]: Colossians chapter number three.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is put on verse 12, put on therefore as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: and meekness, long-suffering, and it goes into the for bearing one another, for giving one another et cetera.

[SPEAKER_00]: So in this text, he says, put on therefore something as the elect of God, in other words, be what you are because you are the elect, you are the same, you are all chosen, treat one another properly.

[SPEAKER_00]: treat one another as the elective God with love and kindness and graciousness and humility and have all of these things because if you are all elect or you are all the chosen of God, act like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That God say here and I choose you to go to hell and I choose you to go to heaven.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then he say that in this text, then why do men say that he does?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's move on.

[SPEAKER_00]: doing okay so far i'm just trying to show you exactly what the bible says on the subject okay let's go to the next one first Timothy chapter number five first empty chapter number five and verse number twenty one is a text

[SPEAKER_00]: I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and here's the word, and the elect angels that thou observe these things without preferring one another before another doing nothing by partiality.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, again, within the text here, he's talking about elders, talk about pastors, that if there somebody has an accusation against a pastor,

[SPEAKER_00]: You do not receive it except for by two or three witnesses.

[SPEAKER_00]: So two or three people see me coming out of the bar, drunk as a skunk, fallen over, then y'all ought to go to the deacons and say, we sold a preacher drunk.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we'd better sit down and talk with the preacher.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if one person comes up to a deacon and says, hey, deacon, I saw a carol stumbling out of the bar, drunk.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what you're supposed to do with that accusation?

[SPEAKER_00]: This is miss it.

[SPEAKER_00]: not supposed to even listen to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'd be surprised what I've heard through the years.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had one person call me up about a beacon just hammered hammered hammered hammered and how evil evil this beacon was, you know, and I'd be off the board.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe you allowed me on the board, doesn't that?

[SPEAKER_00]: And this person went on and on and on and on and on and said, well, thank you so much for that information and I hung up the phone.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I did with that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just because they have it against this person, whether it was true or not.

[SPEAKER_00]: According to the scriptures, I am not supposed to listen to one accusation, and that person is that man is still a deacon, as man is still a deacon, because I'm not going to listen to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: How many of us will be tempted to say, really?

[SPEAKER_00]: Really, and most of us would take it and run with it, and God says, don't even receive it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't even listen, in one ear, out the other, but most people, we like the hot stuff, you know, we like the dirt.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we would take it and we would listen to it and act upon it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the text.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if there are some that have sin, we're supposed to rebuke before all in verse 20 that others may fear.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then he says, I charge thee therefore before God, Jesus, the angels, the elect angels, do these things and don't be partial with your judgment on the subject.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, clearly, does this verse teach the God chose certain people to go to heaven and certain people to go to hell in the subject of the choosing or electing?

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is,

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, let's go to next one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Second Timothy, chapter number two.

[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, what we get to do is a real big sword drill.

[SPEAKER_00]: We get to look at a lot of different concepts found within the Word of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's the same concept that as a Gabriel, Michael, those who were maybe the cherubs as Satan before his fall was that

[SPEAKER_00]: Holy Cherub, they were chosen angels in particular.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, it's somewhat of the concept humanly speaking, how Jesus chose the 12th.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, out of all the people, he said, I want Peter, I want James, I want John, it'd be the inner circle when I want the rest of these men and these are the ones that God chose as leaders.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, even to this day, there is an election process going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Matter of fact, we're gonna see this down the road,

[SPEAKER_00]: The word ordained is going to come into place with us whole, because what he talks about is those who are ordained, it's the word for rank.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as we ordained, Nathan, we ranked him.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are named, placed him and separated him and ordained him for a specific position.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what Jesus did as ordaining those men rank them separate and put them into a position.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's still going today on today as pastors and evangelists and other offices that did happen within the church of this day.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the election process is that God puts on hard that individual to do that and then they submit to the call, etc.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there is that process of choosing election even to this day as far as leadership.

[SPEAKER_00]: God has that privilege to choose leadership, you know, and that's that's process by which I see in the New Testament that he does it too to this very day.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there are those who are the elect angels.

[SPEAKER_00]: Over the second Timothy, good question, chapter two.

[SPEAKER_00]: And here again we're looking at verse number 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: He says, therefore, I endure all things for the elex sake that they may also obtain the salvation, which is in Christ Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: with eternal glory.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, now we get to talk about chosen or elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in the verse, it uses the word salvation doesn't it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if we did not look at this verse closely, you know what we would surmise?

[SPEAKER_00]: that choosing and salvation are going hand in hand here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's break it down, though.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this look at God is actually saying within the text.

[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, he deals with the matter of hardships.

[SPEAKER_00]: Matter of fact, backing up verse number eight, remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel, where I suffer trouble.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he is suffering trouble for what purpose?

[SPEAKER_00]: the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's going around all these towns and he's preaching about Jesus, not everybody's digging it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So certain people are throwing him in jail, trying to beat him up, taking him out of the city, stoning him, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_00]: The second Corinthians 11 principle, he goes to the whole list of what he went through just to preach the gospel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, so I'm in trouble for preaching the gospel in verse number nine.

[SPEAKER_00]: as an evil doer even unto bond.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they looked at him as a preacher, the gospel and said he was an evil guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: How many of you have been ever considered an ugly evil person because you're a Christian?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we have.

[SPEAKER_00]: Many in this room have been looked at as all you're one of those people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you vote for the Republicans.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the big thing in the last months is the only way the Republicans got into office because of Christian you've heard that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't think abortions right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you think that there shouldn't be gays.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you go through the whole list of where marked.

[SPEAKER_00]: As you just say, you're a Christian.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're a marked person.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're a different.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're one of those.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he went through the same thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So don't think you're any different than Paul.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's in bonds.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the word of God is not bound.

[SPEAKER_00]: He says, I'm in jail, but you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: God's word is free.

[SPEAKER_00]: Still going throughout all of the regions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you'll notice that he is putting together so far, the gospel, the word of God going out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even though he is bound, the gospel, the word of God is still flourishing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, notice, verse 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: for the elex sake, or for their cause, I go to jail for the elect, that day,

[SPEAKER_00]: That is, the elect may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if we were to break this down and start looking at the order by which this whole text is teaching, is the election before the suffering and the gospel, or is it that the gospel was preached, the suffering comes and then the elect get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm smiling after that one, that I go too fast, let me repeat this, let God flow with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let the word of God flow.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's saying back here a couple of verses, he said, you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus died, he suffered.

[SPEAKER_00]: The gospel comes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I go into towns and I preach the gospel.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as I'm preaching the gospel, I get thrown in jails.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the next verse he says,

[SPEAKER_00]: The elect, so the question is, which came first, the gospel, which brought the suffering to the elect, or is it they were chosen, and then comes the gospel, and then comes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I see that the flow is, if this, you know what Paul said, if I wouldn't have suffered, the elect wouldn't have heard the gospel.

[SPEAKER_00]: of an action.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is saying, if I don't suffer, you're not going to hear the gospel.

[SPEAKER_00]: You choose in ones of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: And those who are saved are the chosen.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he never said, I choose certain people to heaven and certain people to hell.

[SPEAKER_00]: He never said that in the text.

[SPEAKER_00]: All

[SPEAKER_00]: for the elect, for their sake, for their purpose.

[SPEAKER_00]: So here again, someone say, we'll see, they're the elect, and it's talking about salvation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is anybody here who has saved not the elect?

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is no.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you are saved, you are chosen.

[SPEAKER_00]: You are the elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're chosen by God.

[SPEAKER_00]: But God chose you as a result of hearing the gospel first.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't hear the gospel, he's saying, I'm doing this for your sake church, for the sake of the church.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm suffering.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what he's saying is, if I don't suffer, if I'm not going through these hardships, then the gospel isn't going to go out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the emphasis is not on the electsake.

[SPEAKER_00]: The emphasis in this whole text is upon the

[SPEAKER_00]: propagation of the gospel and suffering is a result of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Any questions on that one?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to try to rephrase the question.

[SPEAKER_00]: The question is, okay, as a person, as the Calvinist would look then at the conversion of the apostle Paul.

[SPEAKER_00]: what's up with that then, you know, while these sufferings and so forth, how they look at this text, well, if, as they look at chapter number nine of Acts in the conversion of Paul, they will actually look at that and say, see, there is the irresistible grace.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's when we're going to be looking at down the road, because that's one of the classic places they go to is the apostle Paul, and they'll say, see, God, I had a whole plan to

[SPEAKER_00]: And God made him get saved and said, you're going to be a preacher to even up the kings and had to his old life planned out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: All trust me, they have some bullets, they have some places that they will go to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, that's one of the places.

[SPEAKER_00]: But isn't it interesting that a simple little phrase is in the whole text as some of you know where I'm going with this?

[SPEAKER_00]: When Paul was struck down and that light was there, there was a phrase that the apostle Paul or saw at that time gave.

[SPEAKER_00]: They might know what that phrase was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Lord, what will thou have me to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a choice in his life at that moment, showing that was not irresistible.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was a submission by Saul before Paul, before becoming an apostle.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's when we were going to look at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we get to look at it a little bit earlier, and we'll see it again.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Any other questions on this one?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, ma'am.

[SPEAKER_00]: The future, that's correct.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, I'm doing this for the future elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those who are going to be chosen by God, I'm suffering so that they can get the gospel to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if the text would say, it doesn't matter Paul whether you give him the gospel or not, because there are the elect anyways, and there would be no reason for him to suffer, and no reason for him to get the gospel to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: If there are elect already in salvation, then there's no reason for him to suffer or to preach the gospel.

[SPEAKER_00]: You see what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what clearly I see in this text is that the elect are those who are going to be saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: He says, there are those who are the chosen out there, those who are going to be saved.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's really the definition of what a chosen one is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those who have believed in Jesus Christ are elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: are chosen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm going to suffer, I'm going to preach the gospel to this people for the electsake.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go through this suffering for their sake so that they can hear the gospel.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's saying, this is what's important.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I keep getting back.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that, oh, by the way, in God's shows, some of you and some he didn't choose, but rather the message is, I gotta get the gospel to everybody, gotta spread that seed to them because they're out there people that are going to believe in Jesus Christ to become the elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: for the likesake.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's the principle.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we looked at several verses last week as we saw in Timothy who have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth got not willing to any shepherds but all should come to repentance.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it comes down to those kind of principles.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, a one is underway.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so because of Wana is underway, I am limited now to time.

[SPEAKER_00]: See, before I could keep on going and keep on going, and everybody would just hang right in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Lord Willan, next week we'll go to Titus, and chapter number one, and we'll get started right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And continue on with verse 5 verse showing you every time the word elect or election.

[SPEAKER_00]: We will also see that phrase coming up and we will see these different places where God describes about the elect.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and I probably could have, or show of giving you even a clearer definition for our standpoint to go into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there again, I don't want to put something into your mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want you to develop this biblical idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: for yourself, instead of, well, the preacher says this so therefore this is how we must think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I want you to think on yourself, to come to that conclusion, women, every time God's dealing with the elect, he is not saying that I have chosen some to go to heaven, I have chosen some to go to hell, but rather the message is to all.

[SPEAKER_00]: who are depraved, everybody's a sinner, and so I'm going to give them message out to all.

[SPEAKER_00]: That in Romans chapter 10, as it describes, that whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10 · chapter mention

[SPEAKER_00]: So therefore, they weren't saved before that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they are saved after calling.

[SPEAKER_00]: So once they believe, the transaction takes place from death to life.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and those who were not here,

[SPEAKER_00]: that most of you would know, and maybe some of you don't, that Calvin at the latter part of his life recanted these teachings.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I gave the quotation of him saying, listen, by the way,

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe that, and so he totally changed, and I can actually give you those quotes if you would need to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm saying to hear this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's good for you to know, because on the tearing out, this is an absolute epidemic that's going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you say, no, it's not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is very rampant right now in Bible churches.

[SPEAKER_00]: and Baptist churches that are now taking this doctrine and embracing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I talked to a preacher a year ago, less than a year ago, who said, I am now studying seriously the teachings of Calvinism, and I am agreeing with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I said to him, I don't know if I said to him or not, I thought to myself, I'll be watching your ministry die in the next five years because you're not going to have any kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to have any baby born in your church.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to eventually, this is going to die out, because nobody going to save none of that teaching doesn't go to happen.