Q&A Session | Parenting with Grace & Truth

Welcome back. That was to test if you're awake. It is eight o'clock. We're getting heckled here by certain members of the congregation. Thank you so much for that first session, Dr. Ware, that was filled with grace and truth, so praise God for that. I have a number of questions. These are not going to take us to a late hour in all seriousness because we want families to be able to get get home, but we do want to get into a few things here that are going to be related to what you laid down so well. How do you cultivate, this is for a father I think primarily, but it could also be for a mother as well, because certainly both dads and moms can be harsh or severe or too tough, maybe in different ways, but they both can. So it could be for a father, certainly this is a failing of fathers, it could also be both parents. How do you cultivate authority but not harshness? Right. Authority but not harshness. Yeah, well and that's such a good question. I think there is a particular difficulty for, you know, most dads, not all, but most dads have deeper voices and a presence that just naturally conveys a higher level of authority. And so you have to be careful when you're talking to your kids that you don't, I don't know, scare them or or have them interpret what you're saying as harsh to them. And sometimes if you have that kind of demeanor, a deep voice and a, you know, a physical presence that's large to them, then that can just happen just by you being you. So I think speak usually, speak tenderly and gently and softly but firmly so they know from your tone of voice, you know, that this is a serious matter. So I think you can you can convey that seriousness but you can do it in a way that also conveys your tenderness toward them at the same time. And certainly you just don't want to as a general rule. I know there are exceptions to this. I'm not going to say you never talk to them out of anger or never discipline them out of anger. I will not say that because I think there are some times when the offense is so bad that requires something drastic right then. But I would say that is the exception that rarely should be used. And by far and away the norm is to to talk with them and discipline them with a tenderness of heart and not out of anger. And as I said, you know, with a conveying to them a confidence of your love for them even as you discipline them, even as you spank them or or give them their time out or whatever the case might be. By the way, I do think spanking is is a God ordained method. I mean, Jody and I oftentimes commented with our two rebellious little girls, you know, that we were raising, that there were times we felt with both Bethany and Rachel, our two girls, that there were times when a spanking was about the only thing that we kind of pull them back, that we kept feeling, you know, kind of this pushing, pushing, pushing in their resistance toward us and talking to them and other measures just didn't seem to do it. We even talked about, well, we hope something will happen that we can justify spanking them because that's what they need, you know, to pull them back in. So, you know, but even as you do that, you express to them your love for them. So, it's just a, it's kind of the manner and the tone that you do it and the words you say that convey your love as you discipline. Yeah, good question. Thank you. Bethany, do you want to comment on that?

Rebuttal from the front. His daughter is here, nearly front row. My wife. So, yes, that's really helpful and even as you conveyed in the message, there are times when a father has to bring some thunder, so to speak. Hopefully, it's not often, right? Even to the extent that we might say that if it's being brought often, if it's always thunder and lightning in the home, something's probably not going right. That's not healthy, right? The norm then, and again, you already laid this down a little bit, but just to tease it out, the norm, ideally, when you're working with that principle of not delaying, for example, is I don't have to ramp up. I don't have to shout at my children, rage at them to get them to obey me. I can actually talk calmly and they respond. Would you say that's correct? Think tender but firm. Yeah, so the firmness, they know you mean it. And I do think talking with your children about these things, talking is underrated in terms of its value in parenting. Just sitting down with your kids and explaining things to them, so they don't have to try to figure out why mom or dad is doing this. You tell them.

So you explain the discipline that's coming. You realize why you're getting this spanking. So let's talk about it. And you understand that God has called us to train you in a way in which you learn to obey. And so this is what is needed for you to get this, for you to learn this. So I just, I, you know, I, Jordan and I both found as we did this, kind of stumbling into it, that talking to them about these things was really helpful. And, you know, talking about a lot of different things. So for example, preparing them ahead of time in a preemptive way to avoid problems that might happen if you hadn't talked to them.

So I mean, just for example, we did a lot of traveling because our families are on the West Coast. Jodi's and my, we were both from the Pacific Northwest. So summers we would drive out to visit our families and a lot of time in the car, we'd stop at places that have a gift shop, you know, and so we would tell our girls, you know, we're gonna stop at a place, there's gonna be, you know, a store there and lots of really pretty little things that you're gonna want to reach out and grab. But here's the rule, you can look at everything you want to look at, but don't touch. Don't touch. Look, but don't touch. So it was so cute to watch these girls, you know, walking through the store and their hands are looking at this, looking at this, and they just kept their hands by their sides, you know, and it just, it just prevented what otherwise might have been a problem. So preemptive talking is really valuable. So I don't know, I'm off the main question that you're asking, Owen, but I do think that expression of love and talking to them about it, helping explain things, and then helping wrapping it in love as you do it is really important. Yeah. No, I think that's extremely helpful, talking ahead of time. I am appreciating the color we're getting about Bethany's childhood here, but I mean, how often do you, we get ramped up as fathers and mothers, we get upset in the moment, we all fail, me and me very much included in the moment, but then you think to yourself, wait a minute, it wasn't just that the child was disobeying, the child was, and it wasn't just that I got too ramped up, it's that there's work to be done ahead of time. Yeah, right. I, this is my work and and dads should really lead in that. It's not that mom doesn't say something at all, but fathers should at least be priming the pump. I think we would both say, believing in male headship to prep, like you said. Let me give one more example.

My dad, I can remember driving in the car to church, sitting in the back seat, and we're going to a business meeting. Yuck. You know, I mean for a little kid, for me, a little kid thinking about going to a business meeting. He said, now Bruce, you've got to know that we're going to be at church and it could go for quite a long time, and you're going to have to sit there in your seat quietly and still for the whole time. Do you understand me? I said, okay dad, I get it. He said, but after it's over, guess what? We're heading to the pizza place, and you're at that place with your friends. You can just have a great time and talk with each other and do, you know, just so he would prepare us for the hard things with also kind of the, you know, the, what, the carrot, yeah, the carrot for the good things that we're going to come as well. It's just, it's just so good to do that. It's helpful for your kids to anticipate what's going to come so they know what the rules are. They know, they know what to, what to expect and what is expected of them. If they know that in advance, it really helps. Yeah. Yeah, that's something I've seen in the Ware home. There's a lot of joy. There's real order. There's real respect, but there's real joy. So that's an example from your dad. What did you do in terms of the carrot element? What would you do with your, your girls for, for fun?

Just, yeah, what did we do, Jody? We're gonna call Mrs. Ware up on the stage at this point. Well, we, what did we do? We played a lot of games together. We watched I Love Lucy and, you know, those kind of fun shows on TV that you still watch, you know, lots of books, lots of reading, lots of laughter, lots of fun. I mean, that's, that's the thing. I mean, if you, if you work hard when they're young to have children that are compliant and obedient and, and are, as you're for them, they'll be for you. So there's this mutual, healthy relationship. Then, you know what? You can, you can really have a lot of fun in your family instead of all the bickering and the fighting and the complaining and the, the stuff, you know, that just makes it so hard. That so many families struggle with. So, and for some of you out there who have kids that are a little bit older, you say, well, I didn't do that when they were young. Is there any hope for me? Yeah, you can, you can reestablish new rules with them. So have a family council get together and say, you know what? We've just, you know, become aware of some things that just, we, we could do that would make things better for us and here's how it's going to work.

And Dad should lead the way in that and talk it through with him so they know, again, they know what the expectations are. That could be very helpful. Yeah, that strikes me as one of the applications of that second dimension of God's fatherhood. That there is, it's amazing to say these words. It feels wrong. It feels like I'm going out too far, but there's always hope in God. Yeah. There's always grace in God. There's always love in God. You don't run out of love. Amen. From God.

You should. Yeah. You feel weird saying that. Yeah. But you don't as you, as you brought out. So if we're applying that hopefulness, like you're saying, if there, if the family is not in a perfect place, right, if there is bitterness and challenge, if children are pulling away as they get older, and these are just, which happens, which happens in many homes, right? Dare I say all our homes at some level in some form. What would you say to those, you've already started, but there really is hope. Yes. Yes. I think, you know, having a family meeting together where you even would talk to your children about ways in which I think we just missed doing some things with you when you were younger that would have helped in our home. And you probably wouldn't be in the position you're in.

And we want you to know we're sorry. You know, we, we, we really believe before the Lord that there was a better way. We didn't know. Honestly, we would have done it if we had known, but we didn't know it. But here's what it is. And we think it's important to begin practicing that now. And so here's why we think it's important. Here's what it is. And here's what this means for you. I think just walk that walk through that with them would be such a very helpful thing to do for them. And then as yeah, you know, so this is going to mean more, more kind of, oh, requirements of them as kids in the home that will honor their parents and so on. But when they see your love for them, that this is done out of love for them and for their well-being for, for their betterment, just pray the Lord would help them to see that this is the better path and they'll join you in that.

You know, so it's just easier if you start when they're little, you know, because I, in fact, let me just quickly, if I don't mind, give you kind of a visual. I think a lot of families make this fundamental error that when the kids are little, they're very permissive. And so the boundaries really on what the kids do because, you know, sometimes they're just too cute. That's the problem. You know, they're just too cute. They're too sweet. They're too precious.

And so, you know, the boundaries are out here and you are very permissive and they can do a lot of things that, you know, they get away with, as it were. And then as they get a little bit older, they can do things that are worse. And so you begin putting on the constraints. The rules begin to come in and you can't do this. And then they get older and they can do yet more things that are more harmful. And so the constraints come in and then they're in their teenage years and they're driving and, wow, you know, you'd be back here at, you know, 10 o'clock and not one minute after that and fill the car up before you come back. And, you know, so the constraints are on. So the movement in so many homes is in this direction in terms of constraints. Whereas the way of wisdom, I think, is just the opposite. You start with the constraints on tight and inflexible to begin with, right? So you always win every time. And that establishes a home where the children are learning to obey and they're compliant and they're with you and you love them. And so this is not a resentful thing. They're not mad at you for this. They realize how good this is. And then as they grow, you can begin releasing the constraints and trusting them more, giving them more responsibility, giving them opportunity to test their character and do things.

And so the constraints move in that direction instead. And I think that is just so healthy when you can do that with your kids and give them the gift of trusting them because they are responsible. So that's what I commend.

Now if you've been doing the other way though and you're here with this, I think you just talk with your kids about how we really realize that there's a better way to do this in which we need to have a family that is united together in following the instruction of the parents in this. You're in our home, you're children of ours in our home, and so we are going to have a home in which the parents are the ones who decide the things that are best for us to do. And it's going to be a shock to you for a while, but we trust you'll see in time that it really is for your good that this is the case. So I think you can reverse it, but it will be a challenge, you know. But boy, God is powerful and able to help provide grace and strength and wisdom to do it. I've heard you call that method the funnel approach or the funnel method. Yes. Okay. No? Okay. It may be. We'll work this out of the car after. I literally have in my phone, please explain the funnel metaphor. Okay. However, I probably did call it that one time.

However, once in a while I help out around the house and I will do, I will mop, okay, in the Strand home. But I for some reason thought, my wife called it water treatment. So I will say, do you want me to do the water treatment? And she will say, what? Water treatment? Mop. So I am known for, this isn't really landing in a great way, but I am known for giving things my own names. So we're gonna, we're gonna move on. Okay. When when dad and mom are on different pages with a child, this happens. I don't know if there's four children or depending on how reformed the family is, nine children, however many, but there's usually a number of children, that's a joke, there's usually a number of children who are compliant and who dad and mom roughly agree over how to handle them. Yes. And then there's often one or two children, I would say, you know, maybe where, you know, one thinks more lenient, one thinks tougher, and they've got to work that, and it's frankly hard. Right. What would you say when dad and mom are on different pages? How should they work that out? How should they begin working that out? Yeah, right.

Well, I mean, obviously the mom and dad need to talk this through together carefully, and let me just say to dads here, yes, you are the ones ultimately in charge in the home. You, you, you have the highest authority in the home as the dad, but honestly, can I just say this? You're foolish if you don't listen to your wives and hear her perspective, hear her side of the story. In many cases, she's around those kids more than you are and has a window into their actions and lives that give her a perspective that needs to be heard. It doesn't mean, I'm not saying when I say listen to her, it doesn't mean agree with her. That's not, it's not what I'm saying, but I am saying it's really important for husbands to, you know, respect their wives. I mean, we're commanded to do that in verse Peter 3.7, and one of the ways we respect them is to respect their thinking and their, you know, contribution in their insight into situations like this. But then, ultimately, having heard from your wife and talking this through, the buck stops with the dad, you know, and deciding what is the best thing to do. I mean, ideally, you come to an agreement and you both see, yeah, this is the way we need to proceed, but that may not happen, and if it doesn't happen, then wives submit to your husband, so you know, so indeed the dad needs to be the one who makes the call, you know, in terms of what they're going to do, and wives at that point, it's hard, but you need to, before God say, you've told me to submit to my husband, okay, I will, and so my submission to him is my submission to you, because you're the one who has designed this and commanded me to do it, and so I submit to you through submitting to my husband in this, and you know, and you, and you know, a wife, even though she's submitting to her husband on a decision that she may not agree with, can continue praying, right, if she's convinced his way of thinking about this is not the best, not right, she can continue praying, and my goodness, she's going to the one with highest authority in absolute power, so don't think that's just nothing, that's huge, to bring this before the Lord and to ask the Lord to, you know, turn the heart of the King the way you do channels of water, Proverbs 21 1, you can turn the heart of your husband to see it differently if you're convinced he's got it wrong on this, but that doesn't mean you, you know, gripe about it and and groan about it and give him a hard time about it, you know, you submit and you pray and ask the Lord to change if that's the case, but I think that's how what you have to do is work together at it, and again hopefully you see it to you see it the same way, but it may not be that way, and then you proceed as the Bible indicates with the husband, the father is the highest authority in the home, he's not the highest authority period, right, he's the highest authority in the home, and the wife then follows that lead on it, so yeah. And there may be opportunities where husband and wife can talk, hopefully he does at some point say, you know, what are you seeing or something like this, and it just strikes me again, it's like parenting the kids, it seems like, yes, where it's easy to communicate level 9, right, right, not easy in a good way, yeah, it's easy to do it, but it's not productive, right, where we have to dial it down, seek better environments, yes, listen to each other, hmm, amen, not easy for many of us in different ways, but right, right, a skill, yeah. So, so a husband's main goal in this, if they're not on the same page on it, and he says, here's what we're gonna do, is not to demonstrate I was right, that is not a noble goal, gentlemen, the goal is I really want what's best for the kids, which means you might come back to this discussion and you initiated, I think, oh and you were implying that, you initiate that with your wife a few days into this, and say, what do you think, do you think this is working, you think this is the right way to go, and get her input again, right, in this, so, gentlemen, be humble, be humble before the Lord, care much more about the well-being of your family than being right, and, and, you know, and when you are wrong, admit it, this is the one thing, I mean, I can't, I can only pick one thing about my dad that I would say he really blew it, but he did really blow it on this one thing, I never ever once heard him say these words, I was wrong, and I know for a fact he was wrong on many things, I mean, some of them just factual things where he just was wrong, but he wouldn't admit it, and some things in terms of, you know, things that they did, he did, and so, it, I don't know, pride just gets the best, the worst of, it makes the worst of us, doesn't it? So, pray that God would help you to resist that pride, and be humble before the Lord, and admit when you are wrong, be open to correction, be open to further input, and that, and none of that is jeopardizing your ultimate, not ultimate, but your family authority that you have in the home, you know, it just recognizes that we're fallen human beings and can make mistakes, this is true for all of us, and so have a humble heart before the Lord want their well-being more than how this appears to you, or the appearance on you, and I think your family will benefit so much from that, yeah. But there really can be a fear for some men that if they admit wrong, they will look weak, and that will weaken them in the, it's not right, I'm not commending, I'm just thinking through male psychology here, and the way of humility that you're calling for is just the better way, yeah, but it's not true though, because your wife and your kids will respect you more for just owning up to what everybody knows is the truth, you know, that this, you know, you were wrong about this, and so to hear your husband say that, to hear your father say that to your kids, I mean, there are times when you might discipline one of your children and then learn that what you disciplined them for, they weren't guilty of, right, I mean you might, so don't just dig your heels in and well, you know, I'm just gonna stick with that, because that's what it, you go to them say, you know, I'm so sorry, I didn't take time to hear enough about what was going on, and I misjudged you, will you please forgive me, that's a dad to a son or a dad to a daughter, and that will not weaken your authority, you know what, they will just be so grateful for a dad who's in authority, who acknowledges his own shortcomings, because we all have them, we're all finite, we're all fallen, and so why pretend otherwise? So humble, you know, honest leadership from dads is just such a gift to a family, yeah.

Just about done here, it is interesting in this day and age, I think we've seen a punchback against feminized manhood, where in some circles, we can debate these terms, some people love them, some wouldn't use them, but patriarchy has caught on among some in the reformed world, some in the conservative evangelical world, and there could be a lot of good in that, but there can be an emphasis on the strength of manhood, which is really good, but you can also see where men could think that their only duty is to be strong, is to be authoritative, when if we're going to be a father like God, we are authoritative but loving, if we are like Jesus, we are tough, he was tough, but he was tender, it's not one or the other. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so kind of the you know, the macho manhood ideal that some have out there is not the biblical model, because manhood involves a humble and teachable spirit, and yet a confidence and a character that is tough as nails, you know, that's the way manhood should be, so you have a character and a confidence in what you know to be true, that you want to advance in the things that you decide, in the ways in which you you lead your family and the like, but you're also acknowledging in humility your own weaknesses and blindnesses and failures and your openness to being corrected and the like, and that is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of honesty, it's a sign of just your your genuineness in realizing that I too need to grow in these things, so I'm so glad, oh you know Owen's written a book that's coming out in a while on manhood that I think is going to be really helpful, I'm really glad, I mean that Lord has really given Owen a burden on these things and I'm so grateful for that, and so I am looking forward to reading it with you know an openness to learn myself from things that you write there, Owen, so thank you for that, but that you know the whole issue of manhood, womanhood, because you're right, there's the feminism of our culture has absolutely distorted manhood, it's just terrible, men are taught to think that they need to cower under women's wishes and desires and and the like, and so it's just it's you know turning turning the it's really doing what God said it would happen in Genesis chapter 3, you know your desire will be for your husband, he will rule over you, in Genesis 3 16 means this, here's the interpretation of this, that you will desire to have your own way, you will want him to do what you want him to do, and because of that because now you will have a rebellious heart, he will have to to exert authority in ways he didn't have to do before because you weren't challenging his authority, so really the feminism is just sort of in embodying that rebellious spirit that you see in the fall, that what would happen to women, and men have just been taught to just cower behind it, so the answer to that though is not macho manhood, the answer There is strong character, strong convictions, and humility in your practicing them.

Genesis 3 · chapter mention

That's biblical manhood.

That's beautifully said.

Amen to that.

God give us biblical manhood in the need of the hour.

Last question.

A child, a beloved child, despite a lot of investment, a lot of attention, a lot of time, a lot of trying to love them and win them to the Christian faith.

What every Christian father or mother most wants for their children.

What every godly Christian father or mother would take years off their life if they could secure the salvation of their children.

A child has been trained in the way that is right.

A child has been loved even, not perfectly.

And now the child is, let's say, high school or beyond and pulling away.

There is a natural deep fear, deep anxiety, cutting pain when that happens.

How should Christian fathers and mothers react when that is happening?

We have, I mean, just comes to my mind, a number of people that we know in our own church who are in this situation with adult children who have turned away from the faith.

And it is the most painful thing that they go through as Christian parents, as Christians, as people, is the realization that their own children are turning away.

So I think what you do is, I mean, obviously you pray.

And again, don't think prayer is just kind of the nothingburger.

You are going before the Almighty God who can turn hearts of people.

He alone can do it.

And so you storm the gates of heaven for your children.

You pray with fervency that God would turn their hearts toward him and back toward you.

You love them in ways that are truly for their benefit, which may mean some tough conversations with them, right?

Tough love.

Hopefully you could also have some tender love with them as well.

But you know, both sides of that, the tender love and the tough love, you exhibit to them.

And here's something that my dad did, and my sister, who almost went off the rails, this is what pulled her back.

He knew that her attitude toward him was not one in which he would likely be the one who would inspire her to come back and come back to the Lord and come back to him.

So he looked at other sources to supplement, to be instruments of influence in her life.

So he paid for, I mean, this is back when Campus Crusade for Christ was in Arrowhead Springs, California.

We lived in Spokane, Washington.

He paid for my sister to go for two weeks at Arrowhead Springs.

I mean, she thinks, oh, how fun.

Southern California.

There's a great pool there, you know, and, you know, just all the fun that she would have.

But she sat for two weeks under really good Bible teaching.

And guess what?

It really impacted her.

So my dad knew he couldn't do that for her, but they might.

And it's enticing, you know, something she would want to do.

So other people, maybe a guy who can meet with your son, your 20-year-old son, who's a solid Christian, but he has interests that match your sons.

Just think of ways you can pull in others that can possibly have input into your children's lives that would be used by the Lord to help them come back.

So those are things I'd recommend.

You know, the prayer and the love, both sides of it, the tough and the tender, and then see if you can pull in other resources that might be helpful.

Something I've seen in you as we close is I haven't been around to see, you know, drift in high school years or something like that.

But in your family and the way you lead, you really are reachable.

You're there.

You're there for your family and your kind.

And I think that has a reach, a reach to it that goes beyond probably just about anything else that I could think of and that I want for myself.

Yeah, I do think if you're, I mean, one of the points that we made earlier about your kids really know you'll love them.

Again this is kind of preemptive, preventative.

I think if you raise them in a way in which there is no doubt in my mind, my dad loves me, my mom loves me, they really want my best.

I think it is less likely they will be inclined.

It doesn't, there's no guarantees, but it's less likely that they will be inclined to turn away from you.

And from you means turn away from the faith.

Now it still could happen.

You'd be enticed by friends out there and influences, so it does matter who they become close to and so on.

But that, yeah, that love is such a binding thing that can make a big difference.

Yeah.

Wow.

So much to chew on.

Thank you so much for preaching tonight and answering these questions.

Now morning we pick back up at 9.30.

You're all welcome back.

Most of you behaved, so please come back.

You're all welcome at 9.30.

No registration, no fee.

We will have coffee and refreshments.

Do we know this?

Yes.

We have faith.

We're trusting in faith that we will have, I think we will.

So we will see there, we'll have 9.30 back with Dr. Ware, second session.

And then we will have a men's breakout and a woman's breakout with Mrs. Ware, Jodi Ware.

We are thrilled she's here.

And so she will be with the women ministering to them.

So excited for the ladies of our church and our guests to hear from my mother-in-law.

She is wonderful.

So that will be at about 10.45, 10.50.

We'll have a Q&A after that.

And that will conclude Saturday's portion.

And then we will wrap up this Grace and Truth conference on Sunday morning.

In the Sunday school hour, Dr. Ware will have the final hour, the whole hour of Sunday school, and he'll do his third and final message just so you have a sense of where we are headed.

I am going to pray, and we will be concluded for the night.

Father, thank you so much that you are a wonderful father.

Amen.

You are our father.

We have the privilege of knowing you and being loved by you.

We know that you are the father who not only accepts us, not only is willing for us to come to you, but you are the father who runs after your children, who delights like the parable of the prodigal son, who delights to see a child far off in the distance returning and runs to them and embraces them.

I pray, Father, that you would make us fathers who are like you, as we have heard so powerfully expounded from Scripture tonight.

I pray that you would make us faithful.

I pray for the mothers in the room, that you would strengthen their hands.

I pray that you would encourage them and bless them in the Word.

I pray that you would find fathers and mothers faithful.

I pray that Grace Bible Church and the churches represented here would shine as lights in a very dark age, as fathers and mothers, by your grace, love their children.

In Jesus' name we pray.

Amen.

You are dismissed.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Thank you.

Get ready to finish.