S2:E1 Mens Ministry, Part 1 - Bob Beltz

Dave: Hey everybody, Jim and I are back for season two. And you've probably noticed our name change. It's Church on Mission, but our objective is still the same: giving practical insights to help you and the church where you serve thrive in the mission that God has given you. One other change we're making this season is we're adding from time to time special guests. Guys that we can add to the conversation that'll give us insight on specific areas of ministry The first two episodes, we're blessed to have Bob Belts with us. Bob has decades of experience with men's ministry, and I think you're going to enjoy the opportunity to get these insights and apply them in your local church. Also, would you help us get the word out about the podcast? Like, share, follow, and subscribe on the platform of your choice Welcome to the Church on Mission Podcast. I am Dave Jones and as always here with Jim Book. Jim, it's good to see you. We took a little bit of a break and we're back for season two. What have you been doing all summer?

jim: Well, I tell what, Dave, it's been it's been a nice break, but man, I'm so pumped to be back with you we've beento Delmarva The Del Delaware, Maryland, Virginia Christian churches all come together, Churches Christ for a a weekend in Laurel, Delaware. It was a great event representing the CRA. And just a joy to work with some of our well, we actually had two CRA board members speaking, Brian Schultz Paul Ponshot were on the platform as well. But it was a great opportunity to meet some great preachers and see what God's doing on the Eastern Shore. And it's good to be home and it's good to see you. I know you guys at Millwood, I mean, I know it slows down a little bit, but it doesn't come to a a screeching halt, that's for sure.

Dave: Well, this summer's been a little bit crazy for us actually and we're just excited. God's still moving around here. And Jim, I appreciate it. You shared with me the other day some good feedback you're getting from churches on mission one twenty and the work that's going on with that and just appreciate all that that you

jim: Dave

Dave: continue to do.

jim: Well, and I'll tell you this. I it means a lot to to me. I know I speak for Dave when people say, Man, I I I dial into these podcasts because it's practical. It gives me the tools to build and grow the church a biblical way. and I I'm just so thankful that we've been able to have that kind of impact. we've got a church. I just got a text yesterday. A church in Waverly, Ohio is launching Mission 120 church in Pennsylvania launched last week. A number of churches have been in it. And again, for those of you tuning in for the first time, Mission 120 is simply a a biblical growth plan based on Acts 1, where the church started with a base of 120, And from 120, we have 3,000 of the Pentecost, chapter later 5,000, and and then it expands to Samaria and Judah Judea and eventually the Millwood Ohio and and Montgomery, Alabama, and Indianapolis, Indiana. So look, we can turn this thing around and we can grow and and and develop. I'm confident. So Yep, Dave, it's been exciting to hear feedback from so many preachers who dial in and have have have been blessed by this.

Dave: Well last last season we spent a lot of time in the book of Acts talking about the Acts model of church growth and your work on that effort. This season we're gonna spend some time trying to get to know some some churches and specifically what they're doing. And one of those areas that really help grow the church in many ways is men's ministry,

jim: Bob Beltz is our guest today. Bob retired from the Valley Mills Christian Church. Bob graduated from Central

Bob: yeah, about a year and a half ago.

jim: Florida Bible College. Central Florida Bible College, which was then Turned into Florida Christian College. So I don't want to date Bob. First of all, he he would be a terrible date anyway. But anyway, I don't want to date his age, but he he graduated before me. He's a little older than me. Bob was the youth minister, one the largest Christian churches on the coast, Tarpon Springs Christian, still a very large church. But he was a president of the Southern Christian Youth Convention, had me speak. but we became just extraordinarily close friends. but one of the things that has always impressed me about Bob was he had a heart for men's ministry. But when he became the senior minister at Valley Mills Christian outside of Indianapolis, he really, really, really began to develop an incredibly strong men's ministry. So I brought Bob into Kissimmee. to speak with our leaders. Now we had a great men's ministry, a large one, but I wanted to I wanted to get the leadership to hear Bob's testimony and to really raise the bar as as far as expectations of what we wanted from our men. And Bob came down and from that meeting we birthed a secondary level men's fellowship called Fi Club and we'll get into that later. but that's to me, and Bob you can you can Take this ball and run with it. I really believe if we can get men on fire in the church, we can r we can bring the family. I think statistically, you get the man, you 90% chance you'll get the wife and kids. You get the wife first, it's about 70%, you'll get dad and the kids. If you get the children first, it's down to about 20 or 30%. So we'd all know that we've got a shortage of strong male leadership in the country, but it's even a famine in the church. So Bob, his desire was to develop. strong leadership, male leadership within the church, and and and do that through an avenue of men's ministry. And so anybody listen to the podcast, any preacher, anybody listening, if you don't have a a highly effective men's ministry, we're going to help you do that So Bob, let me ask you a question, Bob, before we talk about the the the how to start one, how

Bob: Mm-hmm.

jim: is important. I guess we ought to first start with the why, you know. And I think it was Greg Crusel in his book Think Ahead. If we don't have a strong, compelling why, our what never makes sense. And you think about all the churches that do stuff, but they don't know why they do it. So we can talk about the importance of a men's ministry, the what, but why, why is it, why in your mind is it so essential to connect with men in the local church?

Bob: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you, Jim. Dave, good to be with you today. And to all those who might be tuning in at different times, I'm grateful you're here. this is a forum for for you guys to help build you up to share together. I have had some, you know, some highs in my life in ministry and marriage, and I've had some low times as all of us. And Some of the sustaining power for me when I was going through valleys was the men either that God put around me or the men that I chose to engage with. So we're going to get into that. I know we got kind of like part one and part two today, but there's just so much that I want to share from my heart, Jim and and Dave, because of what God has carried me through, through the other men that that He's put in my life. there's From an early age, Jim, I I just know a lot of I had a few good role models when I was in like youth youth groups when I was a teenager, when I first became a Christian and was baptized into Christ. Some were extraordinary and some were really not at all. And I'm talking about ministers. And some throughout my early youth ministry days, worship ministry days, associate ministry days, before I ever got into preaching. Some had such terrible calamity that it it's almost like you wouldn't even want to write about it. And it was so regretful. and I'm not trying to elevate myself in any way because we could all sit here and list our faults and our failures too. I'm just saying that when you shepherd the flock, it's a very high calling. And the Bible tells us we've got to watch ourselves. And, you know, we want to have good outcomes, don't we? We want to have good outcomes in our family. We want to get have a good outcomes in the churches we serve, in our community. How do we sustain that? How do we become men of God with good character and good qualities and are able to fend off the arrows of Satan so that he will not bring us down? And Jim, that almost precedes having a strong men's ministry. I mean, it could go both ways, but for me, I kind of came through this door of this awakening of realizing. the landscape throughout my life and ministry of seeing kind of what was not and seeing the vacuum and seeing the void. And it just shook me to the core. And thankfully by the grace of God, I was one of those that early on I I said it could happen to me. Like this could happen to anything could happen to me if I took my eyes off of God and if I didn't stay true. So a lot of it came from that awareness and and that walking that line of both wanting to do the right thing, not wanting to be a a not wanting to cause others to fall and not wanting to fall myself. But, you know, even if I crawled across the finish line, I wanted to cross the finish line. I wanted to do my best to have a reputation and my family and friends intact. So God's taught me a lot. He's taught me so much and I've seen such amazing victories that can occur when men like ourselves open up And are not afraid to be vulnerable and transparent and real. It's so hard when you're behind the pulpit. So hard when you're behind the pulpit.

jim: So Bob, so you so your your point is not only is a strong, healthy men's ministry where there's transparency, where there's camaraderie, where there's mentoring going on, it's not you're telling me it's not just for the layman sitting in the pew. It's if you feel as for a leader you need this. Like the the the male leadership, the elders, the preacher, they need a strong men's fellowship for no other reason than to inspire them and encourage them and lift them up.

Bob: Jim, it's foundational. We we were not taught this in college. I know we had some practical ministry kind of classes, but you know, let's be honest, as great as Bible college was, they didn't teach us to me enough about practical ministries. I wasn't taught, or I was taking a nap, maybe, I don't know, during the times when someone might have been sharing the the conflict you're gonna face. And and you know, that can really get a a minister down. If you have a good heart and you care for people, I mean you can get weighed down in one day and it can just kinda accumulate in your life. so look if you look in God's word, King David, he he knew what it was like to be a man. When he was at the end of his life, he called his son Solomon in and he said, I'm about to go the way of the earth, so be strong and show yourself a man. He wanted to impart manhood To his son. Of course, godly manhood. And so I just got a couple few quick questions, Dave and Jim. I'd like to start with. number one, where are the men? Where are the men and what will it take to reach them? What is the local church doing to reach men? it affects everything that you do. I mean, think about it: strong and healthy families. saving marriages and helping them to thrive, current and future godly, inspiring leadership. Men, where where do we get the pool of men from to become future leaders? stable and growing communities, mature and wise men of backbone to face what's coming. I mean, you can see conflict all around us, all around the world, economic uncertainty, moral chaos, and we know, we know We're teetering. And we've been doing that for a long time, but I'm of the opinion there's some harder, harder, harder times coming to America to Christians. Churches are already facing a shortage of quality godly men. So where do they come from? Where do where how how can we turn this around and not just talk about it? And so I would want to start with one question for those watching today or or whenever you might be tuning in. Do you have godly men around you? To support and befriend you on the journey. I I see a lot of people that kind of go it alone. And we've been taught from an early age, you know, don't don't get too mans, don't share too much about anything personal, right? So what what that actually does is it it constrains us to being like on an island all by ourselves out of fear. we're fear of being. judged, we're fear of being maybe fired if they knew the real me. We're we're afraid of vulnerability. We're afraid that whatever we're trying to project and in a leadership role that might be dropped a few notches if we're to really be honest about our personal our personal struggles, our failures, our frustrations. So do we have godly man around like who is in our life? You know, we carry heavy weights. And so Second Timothy two, too Says, and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. So it's a biblical mandate. This is not like optional for the godly man or for the minister. Jim, this is like foundational that we for too long have thought about church growth or chur how to solve church problems, and we welcome ladies that. are faithful to God and children's ministries and, you know, youth ministries and everything of course is important. But if you take the man out, everything else collapses to some large degree.

jim: Okay, so Bob, do you feel like in a way, maybe, that this has been a a ploy of Satan to empower the feminist movement in the country, at the same time empowering the feminist movement, devaluing the role of man in society. So man has become men have become less engaged, they have become more detached. they have become more preoccupied with superfluous and the material and family and faith aren't even on the screen.

Bob: Yeah, we we see it in culture. It's it's almost and and I think at some level some examples of manliness has hurt us. It's hurt the image of godly you know, godly what what a godly man should look like. Some of the poor examples have really hurt us. So it's like we've gone to the other extreme and as leaders and as church members, I mean we don't know what to do about it. We we haven't really spent enough time we're we're we're okay with accepting that there's a problem. We're not okay with digging deep enough to say we've got to change this because it's we've gone way too far to the other side.

jim: Okay, so we all we all agree that the the role of man in contemporary culture is is at best skewed. We know that. but but if if the church is the answer to the cultural crisis, then the church has to provide the right answer. Okay, we have to take the lead. And and you said this, Bob and Dave, you can you can echo this or not. When you go to most churches right now, you see a heavy emphasis on children's ministry, which is wonderful. There's usually a student minister, which is great. I guarantee you, most churches have a a functioning or probably a high functioning women's ministry. And the majority of volunteers probably are women, which is great. And then you you talk to the preacher and he's he's dying because he's got three elders, two of them are in their 80s and want to retire. One guy's kind of like, I don't want to be the last one here. So they're struggling for leadership. When you look around and like, where are the guys' ministry? Well, we really don't have one. We don't have anything challenging our men. So why is it that in a lot of churches, not all by any means, because Dave was just telling me, I mean, he's got this incredible group of men that come together and pray. That's which is wonderful. But why is it there seems to be such a lackluster? ministry involvement when it comes to men. And Bob, you shared me a story, which really is what birthed this whole podcast. You went to and you could share it. You went to a church not long ago, it was a VBS closing program. I'm just gonna leave it there. You wanna take it from there?

Bob: Yeah, I went to back to a church that I had served several years ago, a great church, smaller church, and I was invited to the closing program just to kinda see people again. I went and there were only a couple men in their late twenties with their families and I looked around and the men were absent. The men were gone and and I don't know what they were doing. I'm sure they were getting off work and sitting at home, but somehow is amidst the good things still going on in that church, somehow the challenge to men to be in the lead, to be in the forefront, to set the example, and by God's grace and God's strength and with camaraderie, to have the energy to do that and the compunction to do that. I mean, they were they were absent. And I just it just crushed me. Like, where are the men? Because it had a trickle down effect. I could see it in in in the attendance. I could see it in the children. I could see it in the direction of the the leadership that night. a great church. It's just that it wasn't satisfactory to me. Where are the men? And I know some of you asked that. Where are my leaders for you know Bible school? Where are my leaders to and we've we've got this big disconnect from where we want to be and where we really are. And it's kind of drifting downward. we were created for more. We were created for a purpose. So think about when God created Adam. he was meant to provide and protect. And so what happened? he became passive. And so God went looking for him and said, you know, where are you? God knew where he was, but he he said, Where are you? And Adam had left his post. And basically the world has been suffering ever since. So really, to me, an effective men's ministry originates. It It's birthed out of, number one, an obedience to God's leading and God's calling. Like this is biblical. This is essential. God knew what he was doing. He knew what he was talking about. And you see you see, yes, you see men did did great things. You see men that have, I mean, they've they've had highs and lows throughout the scripture. That doesn't take away the call to manhood, to biblical manhood. God has always called the man to be the leader, to protect, provide. We We we are to be obedient to that call and put a priority on men's ministry and men's involvement. We're to observe the examples of the ministers and elders who who should be leading the way in moral aptitude, you know, in spiritual fervor and enthusiasm, and even admittance of imperfection. We we should not try to hide behind, hey, how you doing? That's one of the greatest lies told on Sunday morning. Hey, how you doing? Fine, fine, how are you doing? We're not always fine. And so until Jim, we can't even have a amends ministry until we're honest. And so we've got

jim: Right.

Bob: to we've got to be honest in it. As elders, as ministers, we've got to step up and admit we we love God, we love people, but we can't do it by ourselves. We we need help. We need help and we want to help you. third of all, we we realize the benefits of a growing men's ministry and even serving together, what that's gonna look like. And then we just have simple courage. We're we're not gonna go around defeated, we're not gonna go around scared, we're gonna step up, just like Babe Ruth, we're gonna miss some, but hopefully we're gonna see some home runs for God and what he can do when we just avail ourselves to him and his power. Because if you remember, Paul said, you know, hey, Second Corinthians 12, 9 through 10, like I'm when I'm weak, then I'm strong. that we we forget that. We we forget that in our weakness the strength of Christ can come forward. And that's what we need to do is start engaging with people at a real level because out in the pews, I guarantee you, out in the community, I guarantee you, you got men walking around defeated, discouraged, frustrated, bored. dealing with sinful problems, as you've mentioned, signature sense. They don't know what to do with it. We've we've got things that aren't right, but we we hide it behind this cloak of I can't be real. So for the fur and so for the for the like if if each of us would understand there there should be one person that we can identify as a friend, as a spiritual friend. And I would say if you don't have a men's ministry, you can start your men's ministry with that one person. Invite them into your life. have them come pray with you on Sunday mornings before services. Men's ministry can start with just one person that you view, not the chairman of the board, not the most successful person, but the person that's humble and that's open and loves people and is godly and wants to grow and learn. Like that would be the person I would be looking for to start a men's ministry.

jim: So so Bob, it it's no secret that Jesus said go two by two. In other words, he

Bob: Yes.

jim: never he didn't want his apostles to go out by themselves or his disciples, take someone with you. Psychologically, that's important because you iron sharpens iron. You you can't sharpen

Bob: Yes.

jim: without a another partner. So so he sent him out two by two. Paul traveled with someone all the time. That was as much for Paul as it was for the guy he was traveling with. So you're you're telling us. A strong church cannot function unless there's a venue for men to mentor one another, to be inspired by one another, and to grow together, not separate.

Bob: couple key points that maybe I can kind of close this segment with and you guys might have a few thoughts. I would just say, first of all, don't go it alone. It it starts with the man behind the po the podium, the the pulpit. It it really does. Unless you're in a large mega church that has multiple l layers, entry points of, you know, different ministries and men's ministries, it's it's gonna start with a person. And you might say that's just one more thing to do. No. To me This is like the number one foundational issue why churches are not healthy or not growing or not honoring God. We men have lost their challenge, they've lost their purpose, they've lost their vision. And sometimes, unfortunately, it's the man behind the pulpit. That can be turned around. I've gone through seasons of depression, anxiety, fear, all kinds of things. And God Allows those times perhaps to draw us back to him. And if you're in that place right now and you're watching, the don't the hope is not gone. I mean, that's why we have revival, renewal, but I'm talking about getting on a plane again where you can operate at the biblical and godly level that God's called you to. You can start surrounding yourself with men. Look, not everyone's gonna go with you. If some don't understand, some don't go with you, that's okay. That's okay. you know, the one of the hardest things for me was to understand that people turned away from Jesus, people didn't follow Paul. But I would say don't go it alone. Welcome transparency and vulnerability. Don't just accept it, like welcome it. Welcome real people in your life that will be honest, not critics, but people who really care and will be open and honest about their need for Christ and deeper levels of faith. Pray for yourself and your future. Of of an army of men. This is not a program, Jim. This is not another program in the church. It's it's a it's a it's a movement. It's a movement.

jim: It's a culture. Okay.

Bob: And then I would say, number four, start with one man and expand outward. You can do things, we're gonna talk about this in a few minutes. You can start big and come inwards, but you can also start small and go outward. And then I would balance biblical truths with relevance and relationships. It's not just another Bible study. This is about building relationship, building an integral army of people who love and support one another. And I would just say prepare for and communicate well what you expect and what God expects and let God do his work.

Dave: That's good. Hey Bob, let me ask you,

jim: Excellent.

Dave: I think a lot of times when we consider men's ministry, a lot of times it boils down to activities. Let's get together, go

Bob: yeah.

Dave: to the ballgame, let's do a wild game dinner. How would you define what men's ministry is in the local church?

Bob: So there's we're gonna talk about that in the next segment, but we can you know certainly have different tiers of entry points to someone praying for you in your office before Sunday morning, to you know, once a month breakfast, men's breakfast. You can have a guest speaker come in to quarterly area men's fellowships, you can have annual car shows, annual you know, hunting beast feasts kind of things, and you can't people can get up and give testimonials. I mean, so there's an a there's an array of entry points. So I I don't I think it's a disservice for us to think of it as it's gotta be this or it's gotta be that or we gotta look just like the church down the road. I know of a friend Jim, you probably know him in North Carolina, who has started something I unbelievable. It's it's called Shop Church. He lives in the area where a lot of farmers exist. And so he started this thing several years ago. Once a month, they would have shop church. They would take church to the farm countryside and maybe they would maybe this one farmer would be a Christian, he'd have a big barn. and so they would invite all the neighbor farmers once a month to come and have the best food, the best barbecue, guest speakers, and it might go for an hour and a half each night, and that becomes then and of itself a catalyst for more connection. So there's all kinds of just there's limitless ideas to you know, certainly Bible study has its place. But sometimes the culture we live in, relationships precede them being willing to have Bible study engagement.

Dave: That's good. Hey Jim, as you travel around, Bob had said that this is the number one foundational issue in churches. either they're growing because they have a strong men's ministry or they're not growing because they don't. what do you what are you seeing in that way?

jim: Yes. So I've been blessed to when churches bring me in, they'll actually bring me in on a weekend because they want to officially launch their men's ministry on a Saturday. I know I was at Lakemount when Jason rolled his out. Matt great attention, like eighty guys. I was at the pa in the panhandle, by you George Christian. We rolled out theirs and I was excited to be part of that. so I've been really challenging churches like do you have sometimes I'll leave I I enjoy if I'm going on a weekend And it's like, Jim, your Saturday's off. No, no, let's schedule a men's breakfast on that Saturday. I'd love to address the men. so I'm finding more and more churches have them. I let me just, Bob, if I could say this to Dave, I think when we play, we ought to play hard. Like if you're going to a ball game, everybody you can leave your Bible in the car. I

Bob: Yes.

jim: don't know that we're gonna be able to do a lot of devotion between the seventh and eighth inning of a Cubs game. Okay, so it's we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna enjoy the game and we're gonna enjoy fellowship. And certainly God's spirit's going to be there. But I believe when it's when it's a breakfast, a Bible study, it it really needs to be extraordinarily intentional. I think the guys need to know what the subject is when they get there. I think they need to do some prep work before they get there. And

Bob: Yeah.

jim: the speaker needs to be not only biblical, obviously,

Bob: Yes.

jim: but insanely practical for men. Don't I don't want to hear some generalized information. I need you to talk to me.

Bob: Mm-hmm.

jim: And I need to walk I need I need to walk out of this breakfast going, that guy changed my life. That scripture

Bob: Mm-hmm.

jim: is now my compass. And

Bob: Mm.

jim: so when we play, we play hard. But when we worship and we study, we're like diving

Bob: Yes.

jim: in hard.

Bob: if you look through history and you look at the current times and you look ahead at the uncertain times to come, there's no question there's a crisis of godly men. And you look at the example in Jesus, he was fiercely masculine. Being a carpenter was not an easy thing. Jesus was fiercely masculine. But he was the epitome of love and compassion. And to me, that's what a man looks like. He's got a sword in one hand, if necessary. He's down on his knees praying and and you know, in tears when there's calamity and tragedy. I'll say this in closing. I believe men in general, they feel like they've done too much to be forgiven. They feel like they could never measure up, which we can't. Ephesians 2, 8, and 9, we're saved by grace. But they feel like I could never please God. And that's correct. That's but but God has already allowed us to be pleasing in his sight. They men need to know that. You're loved, you're accepted, you're valued valued.