S2:E2 Mens Ministry, Part 2 - Bob Beltz

Dave: Welcome back to Church on Mission, the podcast of the Christian Restoration Association. I'm Dave Jones, and as always with Jim Book, and this week we have episode two of a special conversation with Bob Belts, who's talking to us about men's ministry. And Jim, I was thinking maybe we should rename the podcast and call it Books and Bucks with all the bucks that Bob

Bob: Hm.

jim: Yeah.

Dave: has on the wall there. And what a blessing it is to have you with us, Bob. We're so thankful for the example. that you've been in your ministry and the opportunity you've had to have an impact on men personally and then have an influence on other churches in that way. The last episode you said that men's ministry is the number one foundational issue in a growing church. Can you sort of start us off with that and why it's so important that we have effective men's ministries in the church?

Bob: Yes, I thank you. Dave, good to be with you. Jim, good to be with you. And thank you all of you for tuning in today and hopefully being able to take something away from this. a lot of my passion for men's ministry didn't come easy. It wasn't something exactly taught to me. It was something caught as I observed both godly men and men who've really struggled. That all came together to both. guide me and reassure me and to help me understand, even in my own life, the dangers, the pitfalls from trying to go it alone in ministry. It it it seems like the thing to do. It makes sense until it doesn't. And for me, I wouldn't even be here today or where I am at all if it weren't for God and the people that God's put in my life, the men especially. And so I am grateful that there's warriors out there that are fighting for the cause of Christ. And they care enough to to share that with others. And Dave, the Bible tells us to, you know, what in Second Timothy two, twenty-two, I believe it is, we we're to impart to others what God has given us. Paul was challenging, you know, young Timothy. And so we're called to impart to others. We see the after effects of of society and churches that don't do that. We s we we've known marriages were in trouble for a long time. And the women's, you know, feminism movement has done nothing but to just make it worse. men are really backed in a corner. They try to stand up and be courageous men and they get persecuted and prosecuted, and then they try to, you know, be loving and share their emotions and they're looked at like sissies. So all we can do is go back to the drawing board and say We're not going to look at culture for our model. We're going to go back to look at Jesus. he was completely man, physically strong, and yet he was very gentle, humble, and kind, and very compassionate. He was the epitome of both. And so what would it look like, no matter what our physical size or stature is, what would it look like to have godly men? in your life, in your church, who could stand up when it's time to stand up for adversity, things that are ethically not right, and not drag their feet, but also are loving, kind, and patient and are not accusatory when something is evil evidently or obviously of the devil and it's just trying to to to wipe us all out. You've got men that'll have backbone and you got men of compassion. that's what I'm looking for. that that unique blend of strength and humility and kindness that we find in in God and towards us and in Jesus towards us. And we we seem to see men on either extreme, either they're just obnoxiously rude and crude, or they're just, you know, they're just lackluster. And God wants us to figure out what does the biblical manhood look like and how can we reinsert that in our in our lives and in our churches.

Dave: Bob, you're obviously so passionate about this and we appreciate we appreciate that. What brought you to this point? What what's the history behind the passion that you have in this way?

Bob: So the last four churches I've served in, God has had me on a journey of developing men at first not knowing and kind of unintentionally. It started back in central Middle Georgia about 22 years ago. in a church I was at for eight years. There was an a man in the church. He had made a mistake. His name's Tommy. I talked to him today on the phone before I came on here. Tommy was a Vietnam vet, a veteran. He had just gone through all kinds of things in his life. And he was, he was facing possible suicidal thoughts. His wife, they were part of our church. His wife called me in to talk to him. I I dropped everything and went to talk to him. And basically, from that moment, our friendship emerged. And it emerged out of pain, out of suffering, out of hardship. And I was able to help him understand: look, no matter what you've done, if God could forgive Paul or Saul, a murderer of the church, before he came to Christ, like, don't you think God would forgive you for anything you've done? And somehow he began to grasp onto the realization that God's grace was bigger than his sins. He began to transform out of a depression and sadness. And he and I struck up a friendship. He later on You know, rededicated his life to Christ, became an elder in that church, became a chairman of the elders. And so since then, even though I'm not there anymore, he and I have been friends, but he and I both started this journey of authenticity, vulnerability, that that you can be a courageous man, but you can be open and honest and get rid of the facade. I'm and I'm not saying that a church cannot be healthy without a strong men's ministry. I guess I'm thinking it's not going to be sustainably healthy. It it might have its moments. I I would say if I was wanting to start a men's ministry in our church, if I was wanting help as a man to get myself off the island of isolation and begin f unfearfully or courageously connecting with other men. With people in the congregation who are definitely going through the same thing. They just they're not willing to admit it, because I'm not willing to admit it from the pulpit. And somehow, without telling a list of laundry list of all your struggles and sins, there's gotta be a way for the man in the pulpit to begin being a little more open and honest, to begin being a little more transparent and real. And then you're gonna see an awakening from the people in the church that are going through these same things. And it will actually endear you to the congregation. And if the leaders do not embrace this idea of of authenticity and vulnerability, you see, strength can come from weakness. We don't think that. Society doesn't teach that. Paul says that in 2 Timothy or 2nd Corinthians 12, 9 through 10. You know, when I'm weak, then I'm strong. It's because of his strength, his power, his grace. And and Paul Paul was courageous enough to talk in Romans 7. Hey, I don't have it all together. Sometimes I'm not doing what I want to do, and I'm doing what I don't want to do, or not doing what I should do. So Paul is our one of our examples, as well as Christ, that that be real. Don't be afraid to be real. If people can't accept that, it might be their problem, not yours. Instead, we go around kind of acting like everything's okay. And all that does is you see, for the man, when when we're not able to be real. We live in isolation and that's when Satan has his playground, when things are private, hidden, and in isolation. And a lot of these things can be brought out in a men's ministry in generality. So we don't have to go into specifics, but we can be very aware of the insurgence against us of Satan and trying to derail us from being the godly man. So we gotta like not only look to our example, Jesus, but we gotta like be willing to admit the enemy Satan and how he's fiercely pursuing us, I would say I would begin with fasting and maybe prayer. I mean, maybe I would begin with prayer and perhaps fasting. Like God, th this like private closet kind of prayer where God help me. I I'm desperate for you. Things are not good like they should be. And and I'm suffering. I'm hurting. I'm I'm scared. I'm fearful. I'm worried. I'm you know in in We don't like to talk about this, Dave. You know, we don't like to it and I know this sounds so antithetical to church resilience and church growth and church strength. I'm j and I'm not saying you go around like this all the time. I'm just saying if you find yourself in a weakened, broken position, you better be able to start finding one or two trusted men that you can open up and be honest with. And I would say it should start with your elders. I I did this several years ago at Valley Mills. I finally came out and had told them that, you know, I'm not doing well. I'm the minister and I'm not doing well. I've not been doing well. And we got talking to Gary Johnson and resulted in me taking a two-month sabbatical. And I looked at Gary, I'm like, two months? I I had no clue. He's like, listening to you, you need to be gone for two months, and you need to be gone next week. He was trying to save me. And and I didn't, I've never been on a sabbatical. I didn't know what it was like, but much less two months. Like, what in the world? And it it was part of my journey of healing because I had just been given out, given out, given out. But had I never said to the leadership and called Gary Johnson and said, you know, I'm not doing well, I would have, I would have never made it. I would have, I would just collapse and crumble. So I'd say we gotta pray hard and be honest about the things that both are opportunistic and are holding us back. we need to gather all the information we can on men's ministry. If we know of some other churches doing it, we don't have to do it exactly like them, but we need to just be a resource of information. We need to look for real men, men who struggle, men who are open, men who want to be different, men who want to do better. We need to share with our leadership courageously and confidently what we anticipate, what God expects, and where we're at in the journey. And invite them to do the same. One thing I've done with many, many groups is I've just asked them this question. If you were to condense where you're at in your relationship with God with one word, what would that one word be? And I think we could start with our elders and say, we're gonna around the table and we're all just gonna say, we're gonna, we're gonna convey one word that represents right now where we're at with God, growing, confused, backsliding. You know, what is the one word that describes your relationship with God? And what I found, Dave, is that that can be a Great talking point for further engagement with men and leadership development. I would start with one. And Jim, we've discussed this. You can start big in men's ministry, start announcing all the things you're gonna do and inviting men to it. But keep in mind we're not just developing a program. We're we're do we're looking for a movement of men, an army of men. It's never gonna stop. It's gonna keep morphing and changing and growing. And the needs will come and go and be different. Men will come and go and they'll be different. But we're looking at a movement of strengthening the man. You can start with one person and let it grow outward, or you can start with bigger programs and bring it down to various specifics if you want. Two things I didn't say yet. And number one is that your ministry is found where you've been broken. Your ministry is found where you've been broken. Your testimony is found where you've been restored. And we got so many men around us that are either broken or they've got a testimony, but they don't have an outlet to share it. I say invite them to the table. Invite them all to the table. Who did Jesus go to? He went to the broken and he invited them to the table.

jim: Didn't David in Psalm fifty one said, Restore the joy of my salvation, so that

Bob: Yes.

jim: I might be a testimony to others. And I'm paraphrasing and then so I I

Dave: Yeah.

jim: that's a great quote, Bob, and and I I mean that right there I think sets the tone for what we're trying to accomplish here in this podcast and this information driven men's ministry concept. So Bob, what about the church that says, Hey, Bob? We actually have like thirty to forty guys come out every month or every week. We've we've got critical mass. There's great music, there's great fellowship, we have a great speaker. It very dials into men's, you know, where men are, where men need to be. But but we we notice that we have like from the from the masses, we've got like eight or nine guys that are really wanting to to go to another level and and be more in more intentional. and and from that I think the elders can pursue eventually future leaders, not from the masses,

Bob: Mm-hmm.

jim: but from from the cream of the crop. How what what would you suggest for that church that already has a functioning men's group, but we got like four or five or six guys that are in the masses that we need to be cultivating because they've got great leadership potential. What would you suggest to that church?

Bob: I'm not the church expert. I'm just one other person. And if I have done something or experienced something that would benefit you, then I'm here to to listen and to help. But I you know, you can start with monthly Saturday men's breakfasts. You can go to quarterly dinner rallies with other churches, have a guest speaker in. We talked about wild game nights, car shows once a year. Where you get men to show up to manly things. You see, Bible studies can be an outflow of some of these things and should

jim: Right.

Bob: be. We talked about shop church service and outreach opportunities. We need to do more than just drive nails, even though we can do that. We can build homes, but we can also, you know, IDES International Disaster Emergency Services, call them, build a Dart team, disaster awareness. and there's I don't know the exact terms. We've had a couple different Dart teams where Whenever there's a disaster, a national emergency, we get our guys together and we go and chain saltries and help people and pray with them when there's disaster. there's there's a guided video teaching series that I really like. I haven't mentioned it yet. It's called Better Man. B-E-T-T-E-R-M-A-N. Better Man. I think it's out of Alabama. Phenomenal. video series it's about 30 minutes and what happens Jim is you come together you're sitting at round tables you watch a video for 30 minutes once that's over you discuss at your tables of six or eight what was just shared you have notebooks it's very content driven so there's deep engagement with Bible study with relational ideas for your wife your children your community Very, very impressed with that that ministry called Better Man. And and it and so what it does though, Jim, is it it allows you not only to be have a biblical teaching each night, you can go for eight weeks, twenty weeks, there's different series. You can come back to your you have your tables where you study together and you have follow-up. You you discuss things openly, you have a point man at each table. So that can be a way, Jim, where individuals start grow growing and blossoming. You see, okay, that person is kind of emerging as a leader. Well, guess what? Maybe I'll have them have the opening prayer next week. Maybe they'll one day be, you know, serving communion or and so we would we would have these different platforms, different ministry engagement moments or events where biblically speaking, where we could see slowly them emerging into leadership roles. And their confidence would grow, their biblical passion and knowledge would grow. So better man is a good way to to study and grow and allow individuals a chance to kind of break out into leadership. We did a little bit more of an in-depth spiritual relational challenge kind of a ministry in our church for nine years called Fight Club. It's the it's based after Nehemiah 414, when Nehemiah was challenging the men to rise up, build the wall again. Fight for your faith, fight for your families, fight for your, you know, your future. So you kind of got a, you know, brick and mortar in one hand and you got a sword in another hand. And sometimes that's really all we can do is fight. the number of men that have laid down, sat down, playing video games for hours on end is unreal. We need to offer a challenge challenge to men.

jim: So Bob, so listen, okay, so so let me just I'd like to share with you the fight club concept. actually came I I didn't know about it till Bob shared with me. He's like, hey, you know, Jim, at Valley Mills, we're we had a we have a and I spoke at your men's event one time, it was on a Saturday. Man, the gym was full. But you're like, we want to take some of these guys that are really wanting they they don't want a bigger challenge. And so Bob started this fight, didn't start it, but he implemented the fight club ministry in his church. So I was like, Bob, what in the world? You know, a fight club. And he shared with me the premise. So I actually had Bob, Dave, come up to Florida or down to Florida, and and I I brought in our gr our leadership. I didn't bring in every man. I said, Let me just bring in our some of our leaders in our men's ministry. And I and I said, Guys, I don't know much about this, but this thing s sounds like it could really challenge the men who want to take their ministry and their faith and their fatherhood and and husbandry to a different level. And so Bob, you can do a better job of explaining it than I did. You did a great job with our guys, but in a nutshell, it's like an eight or ten week boot camp. And it it really

Bob: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

jim: forces men to do stuff that you and I think would naturally come to a Christian man but don't. Like for instance, one week was dedicated to to challenging a man to communicate better with his wife. So he has to he had to literally pray with his wife every night before they went to bed. Now you're thinking, I pray with my wife all the time. Do you have any guys a don't pray during the week, much less have they've not had an audible prayer with their wife? I think they had to bring flowers or a gift home

Bob: Mm-hmm.

jim: every night. one week, one week it focused on X sharing your faith. And I Guys had to have a spiritual conversation with a lost person one day a week for a whole week. Now we're talking about a guy who's never uttered the name Jesus at the workplace. And he's a Christian. Now

Bob: Ha ha ha.

jim: he's got to share his faith. Now, Bob, the rule is if you miss a week or you don't do your homework, you're out of the club. Now you're not out of the church, you're not out of heaven, and you're not out of the ministry, but you you're you don't get to graduate from the fight club. We had guys start off. And they missed a week or and they were they were booted out. So but what happened was at the end of the week, we had men saying, I've talked more to my wife this last eight weeks than I've ever talked to her. I've shared my faith with lost souls more in one week or eight weeks than I have my entire life. I've read more Bible. I've prayed more. I've loved my kids more than I've ever done. Now, I I loved it because from our church, the guy that headed it up was passionate about men's ministry. This was this was his he became so gifted in his communication that when it was time to plant a new church in the Leesburg, Florida area, the Florida church planner guys got a hold of me, one of our sister churches, and this guy quit his job and he was doing great to become a full-time preacher. And I I honestly believe some of what the fight club taught him and then how he imparted it to other men was really played a part in his leadership development. This is how we pull our elders and deacons from this small pool. So, Bob, it doesn't have to be fight club. It it doesn't have to be that. But for you, your church, I mean, it blew up in a good way and it is it inspired your men. Who who were bored with church, bored with everything in life that that seemed rel that seemed cloaked in religion, it really challenged them. Like, no, to be a man of God, it is tough. It's it's it's a triathlon and a and times ten. You know, the spiritual effort that goes into being a godly man is tough. But men love this. They they love the challenge. We took guys that were just ready to take their faith and their and their life to another level.

Bob: Yes.

jim: And it it was huge. But you, when the guys graduated, you brought them on stage. I mean, you made this production to the whole church. But wow how how important was that?

Bob: yeah. Yeah, I mean, like after eight weeks, by the way, it was essential. By the way, they had grace and forgiveness alone. You you had three strikes and you were out. And so,

jim: Right.

Bob: but you had to be honest and get up in front of the group, like the next week and say, you know what, I blew it in this area. And and even after three strikes and you're getting ready to be out, you could have one of those strikes redeemed by someone else in your group who would step up and Do some things for you to kind of resurrect that strike. So it was really neat how it allowed people to be open and honest and vulnerable and not afraid. But then someone else to say, you know, I'm gonna take that person's strike by doing this this week. Really neat camaraderie. That's part of the the success of it, is that you don't feel like you're alone. You have inspiration and camaraderie from other guys. You get to get up in front of the group and just have a you're not you're not mandated to do this except for the closing night. But you have some kind of like testimony, you get to speak. How are you doing? It sounds like a little overly relational, but there's a point behind that. It gets men talking, it gets men speaking.

jim: Yes, yes.

Bob: Others hear and like, I can identify with that. It gets them excited about the things of God. They don't feel alone anymore and they're challenged by what God is doing in other people's life. But we all like a good story, right? You know? And and I think preachers, we need to celebrate victories more. We need to be able to share what God is doing.

jim: Well Bob, we had some guys go through it multiple times and then after after

Bob: yeah. So so it's not like you

jim: X they became the leader of it.

Bob: Yeah, it's not yeah, it's not one and done. It's you go through it and you're gonna get something different next time too, depending on how we would modify it or who is leading. But also the goal is after you've gone through it a couple times, like and we had it like twice a year, then your goal is to bring others with you. So you may be in a good place, you wanna stay in a good place spiritually or relationally with your wife. or in leadership development, but you want to bring others with you. So you start inviting, you start inviting. So it never gets old. you always have mentors that people you're mentoring, people that you are mentoring you in your faith and in your journey. And you're just you're just enjoying the ride.

jim: And and real just real quick, John twenty one is the last chapter book of John. It's the recipe for I think a great men's ministry. First of all, they're G I think it's Jesus cooking breakfast for when they get off the boat. So there's food. You gotta have food or you're not gonna get guys.

Bob: Yeah. yeah.

jim: Number two, there's fellowship because while they're eating breakfast around the fire, they're talking about the night, the catch, what a crazy night that was. I didn't know it was Jesus tall yelling at us on the shore. So there's food, there's fellowship. But thirdly, there was a Faith that was enhanced. Jesus pulls Peter off to the side and says, Peter, I to talk to you. Then he goes, Do you love me? Feed my sheep. So there was a conviction. So to me, that that chapter is the recipe for men's ministry food, fellowship, and faith. Bob, if you could pick pitfalls to avoid, What are they?

Bob: I would say if you're not really sold on it, you're not gonna you're not gonna this is so big that you're not gonna convey anything. I mean, unless God chooses another person and he and he will sometimes choose another person to start something and to raise it up. I'm not saying you have to be the initiator and the sustainer of every single program. I'm just saying like you have to either you have to be aware of the importance of it and to try to engage with your men. the the necessity to do better than we're doing. So I would say also communication. you you've got to communicate more than just putting an announcement in the bulletin, more than just a Sunday morning. I mean I was calling people, texting people all the time. You you're you're you're raising up something that is almost non existent. So you're you're creating an appetite when you didn't know it was there. So you're you're showing that you care. Hello. Right? You you you're gonna go over and above. I would say you're going to start on time, you're gonna end on time. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna tell them what to expect, you're gonna give that to them. If God does something different, great. You're gonna go a little long, you're gonna you're gonna modify at that point, but you're gonna let them know what to expect, what to count on. don't bait and switch. If it's this, give them that. you know, if it's that, give them that. and then you're gonna you're gonna pursue whatever you're doing with excellence. It's gonna be the best food, the best coffee. You know, you're not you're not gonna just shortchange men and and say we're just gonna give them the leftovers, So We have to like rethink the whole thing and make it like one of the top one of the top things on our on our list of of of priorities. And so I would say it it's gotta go from like ground zero to like a hundred percent. you don't wanna rush this, but you don't want to delay it either.

jim: Right.

Bob: If it were one of the single most explosive components in the church life and in future sustainability, why and and if you and if you're aware yourself, you know, yeah, that this is true. I I I I need to I need the brotherhood. I need the accountability. I need to challenge. I've gotten asleep at the wheel a little bit. Like, okay, then I would say you want to do some research, some prayer. You want to pull some key leaders together, find out who's open, who's with you. doesn't have to be everybody. But don't delay, it's not going to be a year down the road. Like, something is better than nothing. Start somewhere and let God. build it for what he intends it for it to be. And, you know, I'm here, I'm just a a resource, but I'm available. you can reach me at Robert One W at Hotmail dot com. Robert one, that's the numeric one W at Hotmail dot com.

Dave: Well, Bob, you mentioned earlier the gentleman, I think it was twenty two years ago, that you still are in touch with. that's inspirational to me that you've built that relationship with a guy that you're not living near anymore and seeing him develop into the eldership. just leave us with maybe another story or another example that you've experienced personally in the benefit of having a a fruitful men's ministry in your work.

Bob: I would just say where I've been at for the last eleven years at Valley Mills Christian Church. When we started the the fight club component of the men's ministry, I can't tell you the deacons, the elders that passed through those ministries, some men who you didn't I mean, some men who you didn't expect would do anything for God. We had them teaching at retreats, men's retreats. getting up and having devotionals, you know, praying for communion. I've even had some people out of my fight club, Jim, preach. that would would develop in such a way that they became part of my preaching team on a a periodic rotation. I had like four or five on my preaching team. And I would I purposely would bring people into that pool and that's where they're, you know, give them opportunity and let God work through multitude of people. So for me it was like a community, where it was a group where Dave were I don't know, I would just see men rise up and I would just try to I would be kind of like the air traffic controller and see what God's doing and just try to put them into different avenues of growth.