BONUS: Practical Parenting Workshop Part 1

Hello, and welcome to the Kalamazoo church of Christ podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.

We're startup church.

We just planted in September, 2020 and at the Kalamazoo church, we believe that Christianity is done best when it is done together.

And so if you live in the Kalamazoo area, we would love to connect be it coming to a Sunday service, one of our small groups, or even just grabbing coffee with a member to learn more.

You can visit kalamazoo.church in order to do that.

We pray that you are inspired by what you hear today.

Hey everybody, it's Jaren Singh here.

You are about to listen to a podcast on parenting.

This is the start of a series that we're going to be doing intermittently over the next few months.

And it's by Tom and Lori Wilson, specifically targeting families with children, third grade and under, and we want to make it as practical as possible.

We really hope that you enjoy what you hear and that you're able to put some of it into practice.

Thanks.

And I hope you enjoy the lesson.

Really cool.

Getting to know everybody.

And even last Sunday when I was down here, all the kids running around.

It's such a great thing to have.

We were fortunate to have the same kind of setup when our kids were little.

We have two adults.

They're not little anymore.

They're not little.

Our son's 39 and our daughter's 36, but they grew up in the church and learned a lot about life and God and all of that as a result.

But there's no perfect parents.

You're never going to be perfect at this.

We certainly weren't.

And there certainly are no perfect children either.

Even though at times you might think, oh, what a precious child.

Just give that about 20 minutes and then you'll change your mind, as you know.

But, you know, our job as parents is just to try to get them to a place in life as they grow up and learn about life and the world where they can make the same kinds of decisions that we all made, and that was to make Jesus the Lord of our lives.

That's really the ultimate goal of what parenting is all about.

Not just to have kids, but what's the purpose of all of that?

And certainly we, even to this day, we have a great relationship with our son and daughter and they call all the time.

Our son's in Tennessee.

He's a forester.

Our daughter's down in Florida, just outside of Orlando.

She's a TA for the school, actually, that our grandson goes to.

So this is a lifelong thing.

Even though our kids have been out of the house a good long time, we're still mom and dad and there's still parenting that goes on, although very discreetly these days.

Yeah, we tread carefully on that.

Jaron's got his dad living here with his wife, Angela.

I should have talked about your dad last week when I did that lesson on humility, but here's this snotty-nosed little kid that's now your evangelist.

But anyway, we'll pass a few things on.

We'll have time for questions and answers and then what Jaron asked, and we're more than willing to do, is that this will be kind of like a little introduction.

We'll give you some practical stuff and then, you know, maybe in another two to three months we'll come back down and do something else and we can kind of shape these classes depending on whatever you feel like the needs are here.

There's an unlimited number of topics to talk about when it comes to raising kids, right?

So let's start all the way back towards the beginning of life in Genesis and we'll look at a couple passages here, one in Genesis and another one in Judges.

The setting here, this is kind of a bizarre little situation with Abraham and Sarah and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

You probably have read about them and the ungodliness that was there, but some things take place that are also kind of bizarre, but we'll pick it up in verse 16.

Chapter 18, verse 16, sorry, it says, when the men got up to leave, they looked down towards Sodom and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way.

Then the Lord said, shall I hide from Abraham what I'm about to do to Abraham?

No, I was going to say do to them.

Okay, that one definitely has to be edited on the recording, Jaron.

We've been just fine, you haven't edited it, that's where I'm at, Jaron.

This is the snot nose, the snot nose.

No, no, no, you can keep going, I don't care.

We definitely should have stopped at Starbucks before we came here.

Then in verse 18, Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.

For I have chosen him so that he will direct his children and his household after them to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.

So in the midst of a totally ungodly setting, a lot of corruption, a lot of sin, he highlights Abraham, that he's going to have Abraham direct his children on how they should live according to the way and that that's what would the future generations become, you know, and as you read through the book of Genesis, you find out that the nation of Israel became larger and larger and larger and for much of the time they walked with God, they were blessed, and they continued to grow.

Then, you know, a long time goes by and there's the story of the book of Judges, we can go ahead and turn there, Judges 2, and it's interesting because there is a correlation between our personal righteousness, our obedience, our desire and our ability to walk with God and things going well.

God blesses those who stay righteous.

It doesn't mean that we're immune from things that happen in the world.

We just got news, some friends of ours, people that Jaron and Bianca know, great Christians, two beautiful children, they had a third child and just found out that the child was born with some very serious health issues that literally will change the course of her life and their life, and you think, why did that happen?

I mean, here's two people that are walking with God and have walked with God, and so we're not immune from things like that, but there is a blessing even in that, now there's a way to deal with hardships in life because we have the Lord.

If their hearts get bitter, which I'm pretty confident they are not going to get bitter because they're great disciples and great Christians, but if things that happen to us in the world cause our hearts to get so bitter that we turn away from God, then it's only a matter of time before we feel the consequences of that, we see the consequences of it, and that's really what the book of Judges is all about.

When things were going well, people loved God and walked with God, and then they were blessed, and then when things got a little complacent, like they took God for granted, they started to drift and they got into evil, and then God had to punish them, bring about curses many times in the form of foreign nations invading and things like that.

So early on in Judges, we read this, and let's start in verse 6, chapter 2.

After Joshua had dismissed the Israelites, they went to take possession of the land, each to his own inheritance.

The people served the Lord throughout the lifetime of Joshua and the elders who outlived him and who had seen all the great things that the Lord had done for Israel.

Joshua, son of Nun, servant of the Lord, died at the age of 110, and they buried him in the land of his inheritance at Timnath, Paris, in the hill country of Ephraim, north of Mount Gahash.

After that, a whole generation had been gathered to their fathers.

Another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel.

Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals.

They forsook the Lord, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of Egypt.

They followed and worshipped various gods of the peoples around them.

They provoked the Lord to anger because they forsook him and served the Baals and the Ashtoreths.

In his anger against Israel, the Lord handed them over to raiders who plundered them and sold them to their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist.

And then it goes on from there.

But here's a tragic tale of a generation that witnessed everything God had done.

They felt the blessings of God themselves, but then after they were gone, there was something missing, and it got revealed right here that they weren't passing this on to their children.

And so when there is an absence of God, it's not just a void, it's we as people tend to gravitate towards sin, towards evil.

You know, in the world we could put classifications of sin and evil and corruption, but in the eyes of the Lord, all sin is sin.

Murder and being angry, according to the Sermon on the Mount that Jesus preached, are all in the same category.

And that's what happens when there's an absence of God.

So I think one of the things that is absolutely true for us is that we've been given the blessing of having children.

We have them for a short time while we're still highly influential in their lives.

In fact, at most of these ages, you can tell them no and yes and stop, and they pretty much do that because you're the boss.

But then as they get older, you guys know with the older one, God has also blessed them with a mind of their own, which is either a blessing or at times a curse.

Oh, now they start thinking for themselves.

So Lori's going to share a couple of things here.

I think one of the points is the thing that's so important right now is that we all have this opportunity.

We learned it from other people that were in the church.

You're learning some things from us and from other people.

But there's really not a place in the world where we have been taught how to have a marriage or how to have a family.

It's at best typing something in on the Internet and trying to come up with some things.

Maybe that works a little bit.

Maybe you get some bad advice.

I don't know if you've ever experienced that.

But there's no place that we have in life where we're taught probably the most important thing outside of how to be a responsible human being, how to be married and how to raise children.

So Lori's going to share some stuff on this.

Yeah, just a little bit.

So thinking about, we're talking about children, parenting, but before parenting, we need to look at our marriage.

Because you guys are your role models for your kids.

That's what they're looking at.

That's looking at you and everything.

In Psalm 127.1 it says, unless the Lord builds the house, it's builder's labor in vain.

And so obviously God has a plan for us to build our house on him.

God has got to be the center of your home, center of your lives in order for them to understand even anything that you're trying to teach them.

They're going to know it's from God.

Matthew 22.37, you know, the passage that talks about, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

It's really about putting God a priority in your family.

It's a priority for us as disciples.

Obviously God comes first, but it comes, God comes first in our families as well.

And kids, they're looking at you, and really kids today, I think, because of where marriages are going and, you know, just so many different things in marriages and families now, all the things that are happening.

They, you know, they really need to see parents that love each other.

They really need to see that.

It basically, it gives them, you know, it gives them some security.

It gives them a vision of what they could have for their future, you know, when they grow up and become adults.

They need to see parents that are devoted to God and basically just taking time, not only individually, but together even, you know, to be devoted to God in that way.

So it's really a lot about priorities.

God first, you know, and then basically when we talk about, you know, our walk with God, it's God first, and then it's our spouse, which is the closest relationship that we have on earth.

It should be our spouse, and then our children come after that.

So that's kind of the lineup for the priorities.

But yeah, I just think that, you know, even with single parents too, and I don't know if you know having single parents in the church or anything, but it's hard for single parents because they have to be the father and the mother.

But still with godly principles, it works.

It works.

God, there's nothing impossible for God.

Amen.

So priorities.

Is it my turn now?

You may go.

Okay, good.

Why don't you turn with me to Hebrews 5?

But if you don't feel like it, you don't have to.

So the book of Hebrews in a nutshell is about a bunch of people, Romans, that were following God, and then they were faithful to God.

They made a lot of sacrifices in order to serve him.

Probably risked a lot of persecution from family and their clans that they were a part of.

And then later on in their walk with God, it just kind of got complacent, and we find them drifting back to what they escaped.

It'd be the same thing for us.

I grew up a little bit religious, but if I ever walked away from God, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go to another religion.

I'd just go back to the world.

You know, other people, they do go back to some form of religion.

But anyway, in this little section, the writer of Hebrews is addressing some of these things.

And let's pick it up in verse 11.

It says we have much to say about this, but it's hard to explain because you are slow to learn.

In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's Word all over again.

You need milk, not solid food.

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.

But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

So this is talking about adult people, but in referencing them as young Christians, they're infants, which is true for all of us.

I was an infant when I was 26, spiritually speaking.

That's when we were baptized.

That was a few years ago.

1982, Tampa, Florida.

And so even though we were kind of semi-adults, we were viewed by God as infants.

Hey, you just started walking with me.

Now you're my child.

And so when we started studying the Bible, which we really hadn't done up to that point, everything we were learning was new and fresh, and we started with the basics.

We didn't understand the complexities of the Word, the connection between the Old Testament and the New Testament, and all the little threads that run from Genesis to Revelation.

That was way above our intellect at that time.

We needed to learn the basics.

And it's the same way with your kids.

They don't know nothing from nothing.

They know that you're mom and dad and that you love them, you provide for them, you care for them, but they don't really know anything about God at all other than what you're going to pass on to them.

And so early on, it's just basic things.

A simple little prayer before you eat, a little prayer before you go to bed, a little talk about, oh, isn't God amazing?

Look at the flowers that He created.

Just, you know, simple little things.

We're just planting ideas in the kid's head that will be later on developed into more deeper understanding of God.

And we all have the ability to do that.

In fact, we can do that with each other's children.

That was one of the greatest joys, I think, when our kids were little.

We had groups like this, and we all kind of interacted with each other's children.

And we were kind of viewed as aunts and uncles with each other's kids.

And I think it's such a healthy environment, really a biblical kind of environment for kids to grow up in.

But then you got to learn the basics before you can chew on the solid food, evidently, to what the writer is saying here.

But then when we do start eating the solid food, it says now we're getting acquainted with the teaching on righteousness.

Like, what does it really mean?

Our kids need to go from just simply being obedient to really having a mind and a heart.

Even as they're little and they start to grow, like, oh, I know why I should obey.

I know why mom wants me to do this or why dad says don't do that, those types of things.

They're now acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.

And then it says in verse 14, solid food is for the mature who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Any of us, we could, with a little bit of spiritual background, we can look at the news, know what's going on in the world, hear different things.

And we can kind of sift through what's compatible with scriptures and God's thoughts compared to what is just purely from the world.

It's really pretty easy to do if you have a basic understanding of what the Bible is all about.

Some get a little more convoluted and complex issues of this day.

I think the things that your kids are going to have to deal with are probably even more intense than the things our kids had to deal with at their ages.

Because the world is so much different right now than it was.

And I'm pretty sure my parents felt the same way about our children.

Like, oh, I can't believe what they have to deal with compared to, you know.

I think every generation, which is a commentary on life, but it's also a commentary on the world keeps getting more worldly.

And if we're not careful, we can get sucked right in thinking that it's OK when we lose connection with what the scriptures actually teach.

So from simple little conversations to now extrapolate that out a little bit to when they're in their early teens, late teens, and even into adulthood.

Now our influence with them actually starts to become less because they're away from us more in school and activities.

If they play sports, there's even more time away.

I think it's all good.

It's healthy.

But now we've got to help them get to a point where they themselves now can distinguish good from evil so that they're making the right kind of choices.

I think at times, Lori and I probably more so were overprotective, especially of our daughter.

And then, I don't know, she was in junior high.

I don't know what you want to say.

So I remember it very clearly.

I was overprotective of her, but we've been teaching her about things throughout her whole life.

She was probably, I'm guessing, maybe 12 at this point.

And there were a bunch of her friends that wanted to go downtown Elmhurst, Illinois, where we lived at the time.

There was a carnival going on and rides and games and all that kind of stuff.

And I said, no.

And then she was upset.

Lori was a little upset with me.

And then she said to me, you know, how am I ever going to prove to you that I'm trustworthy if you don't trust me?

And I went, there it is.

So now it's the test of our parenting.

Did we put in the right stuff, and are they going to make some right choices along the way?

But every kid has to do that.

And at this age, we're giving them now, from little nuggets to more deeper conversations and teaching, the ability for them to now have the word in their heart, so that when they're out on their own, they have the ability to distinguish good from evil.

Amen?

All right.

A couple other passages.

We can make copies of these notes if you guys want some of our notes.

You can plagiarize us, whatever.

You probably are plagiarizing other people that have taught us, so it's all fair, right?

Another passage, 1 Timothy 4.7, train yourself to be godly.

That's the ultimate goal for a child as they start getting older and become adults, to train themselves and some other things.

So for the bulk of our time, and we'll do some questions and answers after this little section, I want us to talk about three, four, what we feel like are really vital areas.

Some of these we'll spend a little more time on than others, and then if you have questions, we'll open it up.

Amen?

You guys with us so far?

All right, good.

I'm thinking about lunch when I look at Andrea.

I think about the pansette that she's made for us for lunch.

You guys aren't invited, by the way.

That's all to say we're not going to keep you all day.

Number one area, daily spiritual input.

Oh, it sounds so overwhelming.

I've got to do this every day.

But this doesn't have to be a big deal.

It's just every day, some little thing.

Like I said earlier, a little prayer here, a little prayer there, a little conversation there.

Hey, who do you think put the sun in the sky?

You know, you have a fun little conversation with one of your kids.

I think it's good to be in the habit of some kind of scheduled time where you have like a little family devotional.

Depending on the age of the kids, this could last anywhere from a minute to maybe 20 minutes.

And it could take any form or another.

It could be one scripture.

It could be one thought.

As our kids started to get a little older and now they're off into sports and school activities and things like that, we tried to do that at the dinner table.

But even that became different because practice schedules.

My son played football and wrestled.

Our daughter was a swimmer.

And she was a social track girl.

She was not very good.

She was a real good swimmer.

She was not very good at track.

She did it because her friends were there.

But nonetheless, they were going to practice.

So you have to be creative a little bit about it.

Anything else you want to say there?

No, I think what he said earlier, that we're preparing them for their future.

So it's just a daily thing that you're trying to get them into good habits.

I hate to say habit, but you're teaching them how to walk with God.

So you're bringing up God in a conversation.

Just even godly principles.

They'll come home from school and say, this happened.

And then you can talk about it.

But it's all age appropriate because we have different age kids.

Your kids are all different ages.

Yours are maybe the youngest in here.

I don't know.

But age appropriate.

So you're just trying to get God in the picture and Jesus and helping them to have a spiritual thoughts.

Even sharing a scripture.

If they see you having a quiet time, seeing you read your Bible.

You could share something that you've learned from it.

They probably won't come up and say, what are you reading?

They might not.

They might.

I don't know.

But that's an opportunity.

It's an open door.

So look for open doors to have a spiritual moment with them on a daily basis.

And that helps them to really get more familiar.

So it's not like, we're going to church on Sunday.

We're going to talk about God on Sunday.

We're going to talk about God every day.

Because that's our life.

And that's what you want to definitely build from that.

Number two is commitment to the body.

You guys know this.

You guys come to church.

That's pretty good.

Christians usually do that.

Or at least they should.

And it's more than just coming to church.

You're involved in each other's lives.

And that grows and changes.

Even though you guys are the newest ones, right?

Sarah.

Oh, you and Sarah.

Yeah.

But it was great getting to meet you and your husband last week.

I'm sorry he's not feeling well.

He was sick.

Is he okay?

He's pretty good.

Oh.

Almost better.

All right.

But, you know, we started out that way as well.

The first Sunday we went to church, this girl had been inviting us.

And we finally went to church with her one Sunday.

And she was late coming to church.

So we walked in.

The service was about ready to get started.

So we walk in, not knowing a soul in this entire building, probably 175 people at that time.

And then the ushers say, oh, you're new here.

Come on, let me help you find a seat.

And they take us down and they put us in the front row.

And we're, like, freaking out.

Because everybody's polite and nice and friendly.

And they're smiling at us.

We were on display.

And then this friend of ours, Susan, she finally shows up.

We see her afterwards.

But it made such a big impression that we stayed for, like, an hour after church because she introduced us to people.

People were coming up.

And that was the beginning of kind of getting integrated into that family of believers that we were a part of.

So when we had our first child, he was like a community baby.

He was born.

And he got to stay home for at least a week.

But then he's, I don't know if he did, did he?

What?

When Marty first came to church.

Oh, yeah.

OK.

Anyway.

But we wanted him to feel comfortable with all these other people.

And so we would frequently just give him to somebody that we knew, not a total stranger.

Give him to somebody.

Part to free us up.

But part of it was intentional so that he would get comfortable being around other kids.

And somebody told us that this was a good idea.

And it actually proved to be.

So that when he came to church, he wasn't wigged out as an infant.

But he regularly got asked, oh, there he goes over there.

And that kind of stuff.

You got to keep tabs on him.

Yeah.

Where is he?

Yeah, especially when they start walking.

Then, oh my goodness.

As you know.

But then here's what happens a lot of times with parents.

And I'm not making any assumptions here.

I'm assuming you guys are awesome at this.

Maybe, maybe not.

You can talk about it amongst yourselves later.

But a lot of times, parents hide behind their children.

The children are now the excuse for us to leave early.

To not come.

To miss certain things.

Get overly obsessed about bedtimes and naptimes.

And overly obsessed about a strict schedule that our kids are on.

I think there's value to having a schedule.

Our grandson, hopefully you guys will get to meet him someday.

He's a trip.

We're tired.

When we watch him for a while, we're just like tired.

He's fine.

But he's fine.

He looks like he's eight.

But he had some developmental issues that affected his behavior.

And one of the things connected to that was sleep.

That if he went to bed too late, the next day was almost guaranteed he was going to have some issues.

So I think there are examples like that where we do have to watch the children.

But I think that's the exception rather than the norm.

So Kelly, when it's time for midweek, there's some friends of ours, and she knows a lot of women in the church, where somebody else will watch Weston that night so she can go to midweek or go to house church, things like that, and then he can still get to bed in time.

So I think there are things that are important to be aware of.

But that's not really the norm.

Our kids, they all had their sin, and they all have their issues.

But keeping them up late for midweek or devotional or Bible talk did not contribute to any of their issues.

It actually contributed the other way, because they understood there's a commitment to the body.

I go to church, even now as an adult, I've been doing this since the second Sunday in 1982, January 1982.

That's how long Lori and I have been consistently coming to church.

I went into the ministry in 1983, started leading churches in 1985.

And even as a minister, there's a lot of times, well, I wouldn't say a lot.

There have been a few times I didn't even feel like going to church.

But who's going to preach if I don't show up?

We all struggle with this.

But you and I, we all have the discipline to say, I know I don't feel like it, but yet this is where God wants me, and so we go.

And we don't let excuses interfere with that.

All of this is for us to help develop and help our kids understand that our family physically is mom, dad, and the brothers and sisters, but God is viewing our family as something bigger than that.

We're a community of believers, which is probably more the Eastern mindset of how early Christianity was all about, from the formation of synagogues under the Jewish system, which translated into house churches in the New Testament times.

They understood that as families worshiped together, they were a community, not only the adults but also the children, and it helped them fend off the influences of the world.

Amen?

Amen.

All right, time together.

Lori's going to do this one.

I talked too much.

I didn't take a break.

You talked too much.

Now I have to sort out what I'm not going to say.

Did I say stuff you weren't going to say?

Just a little bit.

All right.

No, what is it?

Time together.

Yes.

Regular times together as a family is so, so important.

So many families I see now, and I'm not speaking of the church, but in the world, I mean, they're all kind of going in all different directions, right?

So family times together, you have to build something that's, you know, your family becomes us.

We're talking, you know, us.

It's not just mom and dad and the kids.

It's us.

We're the family together.

So to do that is definitely taking time for the special occasions, building memories, vacations, birthdays, holidays, all those times.

Building traditions in your family is really, really good.

If you read through, even reading through the Old Testament, you see the Israelites, their families were so tight because, well, number one, it was focused, they were focused on God, but obviously they had so many traditions that even God instituted with the festivals and, you know, the celebrations and things like that.

Weddings were a big deal.

And, you know, those are the things that really help build the family.

But making them special.

Birthdays, definitely, especially birthdays.

Kids love birthdays.

They just love that party that they get and everybody gets to come to.

Meals together is important, too.

And we don't, you know, it's not a hard line, you know, you have to have one meal a day as a family.

I think it's good practice.

Dinner is usually the meal that families can eat together.

It builds, you know, when you sit at the table and you're face-to-face and you put away the cell phones, you put away the iPads, it's just you.

It's your family enjoying a meal.

It makes it become a memory.

It really does.

And there are going to be times when you have pizza in front of the TV.

You know, that's fun.

Dinner conversations, depending on age appropriate.

Talk about school, what happened, what'd you do, what was good, what was not good, just keeping the conversation going, pulling them in so they're not feeling like they're not included in the dinner, in the conversation.

They'll come to a point where they'll actually be prepared to share if you do it on a regular basis.

When they come to dinner, they're like, I'm not sure about that, eating in school, you know, or whatever.

They'll be ready to say something.

At first, they're probably going to be sitting there looking at each other and I don't know what to say.

But then if you get into a regular habit of it, it builds on some great conversations.

And then you have times of the heart-to-heart talks, and those are times when you have to plan.

If you see a child maybe not feeling good about something or they're moody or they're down or whatever, anything, you probably need to pull them aside and have a talk.

Bring them in a safe place, a quiet place where they're not going to be distracted.

You're not going to be distracted to have a talk with them so they feel safe and they feel like they can trust you.

This helps teach communication.

I think so many times we're just calling them to be obedient, be obedient, be good, do this, do that, giving them lots of rules.

But there's a time when you have to really keep talking to them and having these talks with them to build a sense of communication so they learn communication as well, how to share their feelings, how to share what they're thinking.

Us as the parents, we can't react quickly.

Sometimes they'll share something that probably isn't the best thing to share or maybe something real ugly feeling they have or, you know, I hate this person in my class or, you know, those kinds of things.

They still need to feel safe that they can say it.

So don't react or respond too quickly about it.

And just ask tons of questions because you've got to pull that string.

You've got to get it out of them because I know our son, he would come home from school and I'd say, how's it going?

What happened?

He goes, oh, just fine.

That's good.

Whatever.

One word answer is you just couldn't get anything out of him.

Or a grunt.

Or a grunt.

So whatever.

But Kelly would be like, you know, she just said this and this and this.

All I had to do was say one question and it would all come out or whatever.

But it's… Even today.

Even today.

Same way.

Marty doesn't say all that.

But it's just you're grooming them and you're teaching them how to be, you know, this way within the family.

And having open conversations and everything's good.

Yeah.

I think Lori mentioned it, but this whole idea of making memories, whatever it is, it could be anywhere from… One couple that were highly influential in our lives one time, we were asking them some advice about what… Everybody just seems uptight.

What should we do?

You know, because I'm cool.

I know that.

And Lori's cool.

She knows that.

Sometimes the kids didn't feel that.

And she said, well, or the husband said, why don't you have a food fight with them at dinner?

And so we did it one night.

And everybody was cracking up.

That wasn't a regular occurrence.

No.

But it was a memory.

We made sure the food wasn't real messy that night.

Peas.

I think it was peas.

Peas.

Not mashed potatoes.

Spaghetti.

Oh, yeah.

We're trying to make the connection that they have a great life because mom and dad not only love them, but mom and dad have a great relationship with God.

And we're trying to get them constantly to make that connection.

And when we build these memories, we're instilling these things.

Like our kids will bring up stuff that we did when they were little that they still remember.

Family vacations or things that we did around the house.

Certain Christmases they remember.

Yeah.

And as much as we can do that to create these memories, they don't have to be elaborate.

Not expensive.

And they don't have to be expensive.

We didn't have a ton of cash.

So a lot of our family vacations, which we took every summer, were camping, fishing, and stuff like that.

But I think that's important.

All right.

Last one here.

That can be somewhat controversial.

I don't know what you guys are going to say to this, but I'm just going to put it under the category of good godly discipline.

Okay.

In parentheses.

That's awesome.

You've seen all kinds of different parenting styles.

My dad, when he was ticked off at me, he would light me up.

We'd go down to the basement.

He'd drop my drawers, take his big old calloused hand, and apply a certain amount of pressure on my buttockses.

If one got a little too sensitive, he'd switch to the other side and, you know, some people might consider that abusive.

I think I probably got what I deserved.

I'm not advocating that.

On the other hand, you've seen parenting styles where the parents do absolutely nothing, they're hands-off, and everybody else in the world suffers because of that.

That's another extreme of totally hands-off and borderline abusive.

But somewhere in the middle, there has to be discipline that our children experience because that's exactly what God does with us.

He doesn't bend us over His knee, literally, but figuratively, He does from time to time to get our attention.

Hebrews 12, we'll start at verse 5.

You've forgotten the word of encouragement that addresses you as sons or sons and daughters.

My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline and do not lose heart when He rebukes you because the Lord disciplines those He loves and He punishes everyone He accepts as a son.

When your hardship is disciplined, God is treating you as sons.

For what son is not disciplined by his father?

If you are not disciplined, and everybody undergoes discipline, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it.

How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live?

Our fathers disciplined us for our good that we may share, or did I skip a line?

Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best, but God disciplines us for our good that we may share in His holiness.

No discipline seems pleasant at the time but painful.

Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been strengthened or been trained by it.

This is part of a natural, good, loving relationship with God Himself.

He disciplines us.

We receive it as love and kindness.

He's trying to prevent us from going down a road that's going to lead to destruction or self-destruction.

And so we understand this.

We see this as adults in different ways.

Our children are too young.

Their minds aren't developed enough.

And so the Bible does speak about things like spare the rod, spoil the child, and the discipline that parents need to administer to their children.

Some people would feel that it's unloving to discipline a child.

I would say that is a totally unbiblical concept because God Himself loves us enough to discipline us, and therefore we should pass this on to our children.

We can always adjust.

In fact, there always has to be periods of adjustment with this, depending on the temperament of the child, what works, what doesn't, the age of the child, their intellect, their offense.

So things that we would focus in on probably more than other things, and this varied as they went through life, but any kind of direct disobedience or direct rebellion, that received a lot of attention from us because even though they were directing that towards us, we know that that was really directed towards God.

Any kind of defiance, direct rebellion, no, that kind of stuff, there had to be some consequences for it.

I think with God, the way He disciplines us is He tells us what the rules are, and then He warns us, you guys are about to get it, and then He administers the discipline, and then the fourth quality that a lot of people leave out is the love and the affection and the joy after the time of discipline is over.

So I think part of it is with your children at your ages, you have to establish some rules of the house, like this is what we expect.

And our kids would argue with us when they got a little bit older, yeah, but what about their parents?

They don't make them do that.

And we would just say, what's your last name?

Wilson.

Okay, this is what the Wilsons do, and this other family, they can do what they want to do, but God has given you to us, therefore this is what we're going to do.

Now I think it's also good to, if you're in tight with other families, just kind of compare notes and coordinate with each other, but there were times that our kids got spanked.

I don't think in an abusive way at all, but it's one thing that gets their attention.

From even early on when they were infants, you know, kind of getting out of the brand newborn phase, this wasn't a newborn thing.

But when they were entering into the toddler thing and it was time to change the diaper, and you know when they're defiant, when their diapers are getting changed.

When they arch their back and do this, we'd give them a little crack on the thigh, and the first time we did that with both of our kids, got their attention right there.

It didn't change permanently, but...

And then don't, when they start learning no and yes and things like that, if they would deliberately disobey, then there was a warning, and if they kept doing it, then there was some kind of discipline.

Go back to our grandson.

Our daughter and her husband, they do spank him from time to time, but for him, because of some of these other things, they've figured out different ways that are actually more painful and more attention-getting, like taking away his trucks and his dinosaurs.

That's pretty painful right there.

Or no iPad kids videos.

That's, like, excruciatingly painful.

Going to your room and things like that.

We're not trying to advocate one thing or another, but I think for children, just like God does with us, there's a number of ways that God will apply pressure on us in order for us to get our...

in order for him to get our attention so that we can change our behavior and live godly lives, which is ultimately the goal, right?

We wouldn't let our kids hide behind the excuses, oh, I'm tired, oh, I'm sick, oh, I'm off today, because who gets a pass at that?

Like, where you guys work, your jobs, in life, your boss doesn't really care if you're not feeling well.

You still have an expectation to obey and carry out your work.

That can get complicated for you guys.

And so, anyway, good godly discipline is a big part of raising our children.

It only works in a loving environment, though, right?

And that's why God's discipline works so well on us, is we see the overwhelming efforts that God has made to love us, to think of us not just as created beings, but as his sons and daughters.

It's an amazing thing.

Amen?

And I'll just say this.

You know, we live in the world, and it's not going to change.

It's only going to get better, or worse.

And so, really, for ourselves, as well as our children, we're trying to protect them from the evil forces that exist in the world that we live in, and not to be isolationists, but to teach them how to function in a very ungodly environment.

And as they get older, now they're studying to make their own decisions.

Amen.