The Foundation of Fatherhood

before time had a name there was a garden a place

where heaven and earth walked as one this is

the Echoes of Eden where we rediscover ancient

roots and awaken to our eternal purpose Alright,

well we are back starting season two of the podcast

and This one will be geared more toward men and

I have the privilege of Having my dad join me

on episode numero uno And we're just gonna have

real conversation and then I'm gonna pick his

brain. He has no idea what questions are coming.

I Have no idea what questions are coming 100

% We just kind of do this as we go. I do want

to open up with a scripture. Psalms 127 verses

Psalms 127:3

3 and 4 says this, children are a gift from the

Lord, they are a reward from him. Children born

to a young man are like arrows in a warrior's

hands. How joyful is the man whose quiver is

full of them. And I wanted to bring my dad on

this. didn't I just asked him actually I told

him I was going to interview him and He reluctantly

did not argue too much about it But this being

the first episode I wanted to be about the foundation

of fatherhood and What better person to have

had that conversation than my own dad? And life

hasn't always been easy we've both had our issues

and work through things, but I think the important

thing is that we've had the conversation, we've

had the hard conversations. Yes, we have. I can

remember, I'm sure you remember this too, when

we went to Tennessee years ago and sat on the

top of a roof. Make sure you talk into the mic.

Sorry, this is new to me. Need to get better

mics. I really do but we hit we got on top of

the roof and this was when the Something happened

to my vehicle the fuel pump went out on vacation.

I didn't have the money We didn't have the money

to pay this was like six seven hundred dollar

Expense it just happens when we're gone on vacation

trying to have a good time and mean you stayed

back the girls went to the aquarium aquarium

and we stayed back and waited for somebody to

come fix the vehicle on site, because it was

undrivable. We probably had other conversations

somewhere, but I know that was one of the biggest

ones that I can recall and remember, is having

the hard conversations. And one of those, one

of the things you said, I think it was maybe

in that one, it could have been in another one,

I don't remember. But, you only get on that you

didn't always get it right. I still question

whether I get a lot of stuff right, but definitely

when y 'all were kids, I messed a lot of stuff

up. And I'm not ashamed to admit it. And if I

can keep someone else from making the same mistakes

that I made as a father, then yeah, I mean, I

would do that in a heartbeat. One, I think, you

know, I think maybe as a kid and even a teenager,

It's easy to throw blame wherever You name it,

but as for my own personal journey when you have

your own kids They don't come with no manual.

Yeah And you just do the best you can and just

like with my kids there's times I just have to

apologize because I didn't handle a situation

right or whatever But there's parts of me that

thinks I'm able to do that because I saw how

you did And we've never had this kind of conversation.

But I can apologize to them a whole lot easier

because we've had those hard conversations. And

that's not something you find a whole lot, especially

in men. Because we've got too much pride to admit

we've done something wrong or we messed up. We

think we're always the ones that get everything

right. It's always somebody else to blame. But

if you take a step back and look, There's always

something that you could have done better or

wish you had done, but you get that little thing

called pride and you won't admit it that you

could have done it better and then you just let

it keep going and going and going until it gets

to the point where you think everything's alright

when it's not. That's very true. Very true. piece

of honesty when it comes to recognizing, hey,

I screwed that one up. And it's not always easy

to admit. You really do, like you said, you have

to swallow that pride and be able to admit. It's

not easy to, especially as a man, it's not easy

to always sit there and go, crap, I got that

one wrong. Let me go fix this one. Yeah. And,

you know, I even think of the verse I opened

up with, One of the things I was reading on it

about says This verse frames fatherhood as a

divine trust their children are not possessions,

but their gifts entrusted by God the imagery

of arrows also connect fatherhood to vision direction

and legacy fathers are called to shape to study

and to launch their children into God -given

destinies and I Think back to I reflect on my

own life and where I'm at. And regardless of

whatever happened, even our ups and downs in

our relationship, I am who I am because we've

been able to have conversations at times. I can

remember even, and again for all the listeners,

I'm not one to just talk like this constantly,

but I think these conversations are important,

so I'm going to let stuff out. But even on my

wedding day, I remember you told me something

on my wedding day about how proud you was of

me. And that still has, let's see, we've been

married 2012. My wife is not here. She'll hear

this though. 2012, that's 13 years. Thank you.

13 years. But 13 years later, that's still, I

can recall that conversation in that room when

you sit there and told me how proud you was of

me. And Amanda's not here to tell her story,

but I know her and her dad just recently had

a conversation and she said, she told me, she

said, even at 35, she said, never was talking

to me about our kids. She said, never. Never

doubt yourself and your ability to say you're

proud of your kids and the impact that has on

them Even at 35 years old that back then I'd

have been 20 22 Yes, 22 when we got married and

I can still recall that conversation and We don't

have this kind of conversation a lot a lot of

our stuff is more goofing off. We're going to

watch like the conjuring and Just doing stupid

stuff But I think of the cars or tailgates of

trucks. How I'm still alive. Yeah, having jumping

contests. There ain't no way that I wouldn't

try to jump over a pencil now. I wouldn't do

it today. I'd be afraid I'd break something,

yeah. Oh, that little red picket truck. But you

know, you said something about the conversation

that we had at your wedding. And as a father,

God, this is hard for me too. You're throwing

some doozies out here already. But I know growing

up I was probably one of the worst fathers to

you and Courtney that there was But when you

got married I was just under thinking you were

twice the man that I was and I just pray to God

that God used you To do something that I couldn't

do for you If that makes sense it does but I

hear you say that you were the worst father but

and In hindsight, looking up, I think you did

the best you knew how. And that's my honest opinion.

I know back then I probably said some hurtful

things. I put distance between us. I did a whole

lot of different things. But as a dad now, looking

back, I wholeheartedly believe you just did the

best that you could in that moment. And life

took you on a journey just as much as life has

taken me on a journey. and even now sitting here

today and having, now you've got three grandbabies

and watching the interaction there. I mean, you're

not the same man you was then. No. God, I'm glad

I'm not the same person I was then. I'd like

to think I've learned some stuff and God's put

into me something that I didn't have back then

and that was a more compassionate person. Lot

a lot of times like I would kind of let You know

my brains think first and do stuff that I probably

shouldn't have done instead of thank you with

my heart And ask me you know what what would

God do yeah, or what would God want me to do?

but now I kind of I'm not saying I'm perfect

by no means, but I'll say here, and I will I'm

nowhere near the person that I was then and you

know even Even with all of it though. I do reflect

back and No, we know no one was perfect But you

still had the You still ensure that we stayed

in church also though. Yeah, like God was still

a part of our life. Yeah May not have been the

way we wanted it or whatever But God was still

and not just that but I can reflect on and even

Being 35 now and just trying to figure out ways

to you know, like considering my grandparents

and trying to find ways to Either like we're

going to see granny once a month or doing something

I can remember on at least this side of the family.

People don't know I've got divorced parents,

but With with you we would go to church This

is probably when I was younger. We would go to

church and then we go to granny Granny goats

and have lunch Everybody get together over there.

And my favorite thing was the big old pot of

mashed potatoes. That was my favorite. That and

drinking out of the little spoon that she had

at the sink. Little dipper. Little dipper. Yep.

But it's stuff like that that I reflect back

on now and I'm trying to find ways to do something

to incorporate. My grandpa like Granny Wilma

Granny Debbie Trying to find something to allow

them Let's just be honest Granny Wilma is not

going to drive to my house. No, she's not going

to do that She'd have to have a ride or whatever.

So, you know, I wouldn't want her driving No

No Most definitely no and if you ever get behind

the woman or in front of the woman just just

pull over let her let her go by She will never

hear this. It's OK. Oh, I tell her all the time.

Mama, you don't need to be driving. Oh, goodness.

But you know, so I'm trying now to take some

of that more into consideration. The past couple

of months has been hard because the girls have

been soccer. And it just feels like every day

is busy constantly. But anyhow, I can just remember

those things back then. And again, no, it wasn't

perfect. Neither was I, but I wholeheartedly

believe you did the best that you could. And

then, you know, fast forward that to, you know,

just a few years ago especially, we did have

to have those hard conversations. I have to reflect

back, you were man enough to have those conversations.

Because how many men would not? How many men

still don't have that kind of conversation of,

And to me, I guess those kind of conversations

help bring healing to whatever. Yeah. Because

it's not about, you know, once we had that conversation,

this ain't a, well, you did this, you did that.

The blame game's over. Yeah. Now we just grow

up and move on. And we build off where we're

at. Before it slips my mind, you was just talking

about like when you were younger and going over

the granny goods. I think that's a lot of the

problem with some of the stuff we've got going

on now. It's like everybody's too busy to actually

take time to spend with the people that they've

got here. You know, they want to run here, run

here, stay like you're doing now, stay on your

cell phone. You know, it's like technology is

ruling our world. I mean, and technology's great,

but you need to take time to spend with the people

that you love and even the ones that may get

on your nerves because, you know, they're here

one day and they're gone tomorrow and you don't

ever know that. Yeah, and you never know when

the last thing that you say I mean it might be

something hurtful It might be I love you, but

I mean you just you never know So you need to

just live each day like it's the last day that

you get with someone It's very true because I

mean you just don't know I mean you could be

driving down the road and get swiped swiped or

get the diagnosis with cancer Whatever and you

just you just don't ever know I mean, I'm still

kind of guilty of that now. I mean, I don't know

how many weekends we sit here and say, we need

to come see y 'all. And then we get busy, you

know, doing something else. And by the time you

lift the clock, it's like, well, it's too late

to go now. Yeah. You know, every second that

you miss out on that is a second that you don't

get back. That's very true. I mean, so, you know,

don't take it for granted that it's going to

be here tomorrow when it may not be. It's like

you said, technology, it's a blessing and a curse.

Yeah. It has its usefulness, but it's like I

even told the girls This is probably I Think

we had this conversation at the start of summer,

and I'll probably have it again soon But we I

told him I said we made I found something online

about a summer schedule because our kids are

homeschooled and I don't want them spending all

summer on technology and all this kind of stuff.

So it had the basis of it was you can spend as

much time on your tablet or phone as you would

like, as long as, and it gave a list of things,

you had to spend 30 minutes outside, 30 minutes

doing something creative, 30 minutes doing, helping

around the house, making sure that everybody,

you had to make sure that nobody else needed

your help with something. So like, especially

with their mom being at home and having a baby

brother, is there anything mom needs me to do?

You had to make sure all this stuff was done

before you got any tablet time or anything. And

I told them, I said, my priority as your dad

is not to make sure you know how to use a phone,

but how to do life. And that's still one of the

things I'm, you know, us growing up, we didn't

really have this kind of cell phone and all that

kind of stuff as technology. We had video games.

But we didn't have the glue of a phone in front

of us or a tablet in front of us constantly It

was you know growing up. It was the N64 and the

Nintendo Gamecube so like Mario Kart and different

things of that and dad coming into the room and

Hey, we're having a Mario Kart championship.

Let's get them. Let's get the controllers out.

Yeah and you know, then there was other times

and This was my life growing up was cut off the

game and go outside Y 'all stay outside Go play

outside Do not come back do not come back in

and we didn't have the toys like my kids do You

know, you just made stuff up you've got your

bikes out or you played imaginary stuff or take

the BB gun out into the woods and now I watch

like my kids have a whole chest full of toys

to play outside and they get they use the phrase

I'm bored and don't know what to do and I'm like

y 'all have more toys than I could have thought

about having and you're bored go outside and

find some so I mean it's just it's it's difference

of where we're at in today's world versus when

I was growing up and so I feel like you have

to be much more intentional a dad today of you

know making sure they are spending time it's

like Okay, even being here today. I know Kayla

had her phone and I have to tell her We're not

just because you're popping in is we don't need

to have her phone. You're here to spend time

with them That's what's more important. We don't

need your phone your phone can You can play with

it going up and down the road. That's whatever

but I think I think you just made a good point

a while ago as far as We don't make that a priority

as much We know more about spending time on a

phone than we do face -to -face communication

and conversation We don't know how to have those

conversations We don't even know this just some

stuff me and Amanda are going through even in

the church world We don't even know how to disagree

and still hang out together as far as if you

have different beliefs than I do, that becomes

an issue to some people. And that just shouldn't

be. We should be able to have disagreements and

still have a relationship. I was going to throw

mine at you. I remembered it. I got you before

you got me. What was I saying now say when you

get old you forget what you were saying about?

Disagreeing and you could still get along, but

yeah, I mean you ought to be able to disagree

and then after you get food That's watered under

the bridge now now. Let's go on Not hold it against

you. You know six months later and say you remember

on this date when you said this yeah disagree

and then move on move on still love each other

and go on Just that something you just don't

see that a lot in today's not just in church

and politics and just everything I told Amanda

the other day I said her dad even made a statement

said you know it's two things you never talk

about is religion and politics and I told Amanda

I said you know I said the sad thing is I said

we're always told You don't talk about religion,

and you don't talk about politics yet. That's

the two things that everybody needs to have But

yet we're told not to talk about it because it

causes too much division I'm like that's problematic

Religion I mean I Mean I guess I guess like say

like you go to the church that you go to now

When I was growing up it was you know you went

this way this way this way, but now it's you

kind of adapt And I'm not saying the Word of

God changes, but I mean now you've got to kind

of find more ways, more creative ways to get

young people to come to the church. Because if

they don't come to the church, then they're going

to be out here like we're around here where I

live. They're going to be walking up and down

the roads at night and trying to get us for a

crack or meth or whatever they can get their

hands on to get them to the next day. In politics,

I wouldn't touch that with a 10 -foot pole myself.

I mean, you start something, and you're going

to have half the room over here saying this and

half the room saying that. Nobody can agree.

And it's sad. It's sad. I mean, we're all in

this country together. But I think, and this

is just my personal opinion, the politicians

that get up there and make it a career thing,

they don't care. They don't care. They just want.

to do their thing and 20 years later get out

and retire as millionaires and yeah you know

if they would do what they say they're going

to do you know the country be in a better shape

you know they can't agree on nothing so it's

like you know the citizens nobody can agree on

nothing in it i mean it's a sad sad shape of

the country but i don't know how you fix it i'll

put it that way well and that that's that goes

back to what i read a while ago And again, I

don't have the answers to this, but you think

back to the verse I felt like we were going to

open up with and go back to, as a father, you're

called to shape, study, and launch your children

into God -given destinies. How do men today And

I even ask this myself, and this is a prayer

that me and Amanda pray. We try to pray as a

family every morning. And it's something I consistently

pray that God will give us as their mom and dad

the wisdom to know how to raise them. Because,

and you know, having me and Courtney, but even

just having two kids, I have three. Each kid

is not the same. No. You can't handle, like,

I can't handle Trinity like I do Kalen. No. They're

different personalities. And so as a dad right

now, my prayer is that he would help me and give

not just me but Amanda also the wisdom to see

their different qualities and to know how to

raise them appropriately as their individuals.

But how do you? I go back to the question that

I have lingering is how do you get men to, how

do you help other men do that and to see that

and to see the importance of the children are

not just possessions but like that verse talked

about their arrows in your back. Like you know

I'm sitting here I'll be your legacy. I am your

legacy now but I'll be your legacy moving on

even to how I raised Aidan. Like, there's something

different, I love all my kids the same, but there's

something different about having a little boy

that changes your perspective just a little bit.

Yeah. And I didn't, I would have never said that

if I hadn't had Aiden, but there's just something

different with the boy. As you know, the boys

want to carry on. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know

how to explain that. I don't want that to sound

like a deep... devalue the girls. Carry on the

cobbler name. The girls will get married and

their name will change. They're still going to

be your babies. There's always going to be that

next line of cobblers as long as Aiden. I'm not

saying in any kind of way that I devalue my girls,

but there's something different to that. And

how do you not just see them as I guess being

working in places like I have in the customer

service and you see parents coming with the kids

and it almost just looked like a burden that

they had to get there. And how do you break that

off of men to help them see that how important

it is to have these kids and to be not into the

cell phone and the... I still enjoy playing video

games just as much. I'll take...Mando will tell

you I take my hits to where I turn on the Xbox

and I may take a week and that's when I come

home from work and I want to play video games.

Just because I want to beat this game for the

sixth time. So I take those moments, but then

after a while I'm like, eh, I'm over this. And

during that time the girls would be like, oh

daddy's playing the game, we get to watch him.

And I don't know what it is about it, they love

to watch me play the video game. And now... I

have that little disk thing. Well now I got the

new stuff where it has the N64 and they can play

Mario Kart with me. They like playing all those

games and different stuff. But then to get past

that and to be intentional about being involved

in their life and then turning the screens off

and like we started something new two weeks ago,

kind of little It's a 52 week journey of just

going through scriptures together and devotionals

and So we've started reading scriptures together

and then asking them After reading the scripture,

what did you get out of this? Yeah and realizing

what the kid can come up with you just I was

like and the key and the kids you think you know

You think you're not listening you in a whole

different room And then you can be out in public

somewhere. And dear God, the stuff that you can

say to embarrass the parent at any given time.

Like, oh my God, I didn't know they heard that.

You think they're not listening and paying attention

to what your daddy's doing? They are. You may

think it, but just be careful what you're doing.

I guess it's just how do you get men to... Realize

their importance well the more the more stuff

like you're doing here. I think the more You

know say like somebody's listening to this now

if they hear us admitting Then maybe they'll

say you know that sounds like me maybe I need

to maybe I need to just take time and Serious

sit down with you know my son my daughter my

wife and just say you know, this, what, my guess,

but I'm gonna try to be, you know, with God's

help, a better person. And then maybe, you know,

if they sit down and do it, then maybe their

son, daughter, whatever, then, you know, or maybe

they'll get to telling somebody at work, you

know, I sit down and, you know, word of mouth,

I guess, is the best way to do it. I think the

conversation's a big part of it, yeah. And again,

like you said, the ability for me to admit I

got it wrong. Opens up the door for another man

to say, well, if you can say that, then I can

say that. Right. So I don't know how long we've

been going. We've probably been going at least

30, 40 minutes already. OK. No question time.

I'll try to. Can I phone a friend on these? No.

I'll try to. I highlighted five that I wanted

to roll through. we'll see if we hit all five

based off time I don't really have a time frame

but in your view what is the core purpose of

fatherhood from a biblical standpoint I would

say to take up to take that child that God blessed

you with and do everything that you can to raise

them up for the next generation to carry on not

so much what you want them to do, but what God

wants them to do. To teach them to be a, you

know, a helper or a good person to help people

in need, not just pass them by, but to just kind

of, you know, Just kind of be there for others

when they need it. To me, when I hear you say

that, be compassionate. Yeah. Don't just be somebody

else to do it. No. Take time and take time for

somebody and if you overhear somebody in the

McDonald's line or something saying... You'd

be the solution. Yeah. Take time and say, hey,

I wouldn't be a nosy, but I overheard and how

can I help? What can I do? That's good. Why do

you think fatherhood is under so much attack

in today's world? Because the daddy, I think,

is supposed to be the head of the house. And

if the devil can get the daddy into anything

else, like going to the store and buying him

a six pack of beer or cigarettes or looking at

something on the internet that he shouldn't be

looking at. you know, talking to somebody that

shouldn't be taken out, then, like I said, the

daddy's the head of the house, and if he can

take out the head of the house, he can ruin the

whole household. That's good. So, next three,

just take where you've come from, for example,

when I was little to now. What are the foundational

values or truths that every father should build

on? You had a group of men sitting here who were

struggling to be a dad, been through all we've

been through. You've got to be honest with yourself

first. That's good, yeah. You've got to be honest

with yourself. And if you look at yourself in

the mirror, you know that there's something there

that you're doing wrong. And as hard as it might

be, you've got to take the time to say, OK, I'm

messing up here, and then ask, how do I fix it?

And then you've got to be able to go out and

not only apply what changes did you come up with,

but you've got to make sure those changes don't

Fall back the first time something bad comes

along you don't you don't? revert revert back

to The old person that you used to be just because

things didn't go your way And then I Would say

you got you got to be trusting you got to be

able to trust your wife I mean you got you yourself

has got to be trustworthy And if you're out here

if you're out here doing God knows what, and

hiding stuff, it's not going to work. I've been

there, done that. Not going to work. So you think

nobody else sees it, but God does. And I think

to add to what you said, you said be honest with

yourself and ask how do you fix this. I think

the other part of that too was understanding

you can't fix you by yourself. No. That's and

that's a lot of problem. That's another problem.

I think we kind of get into is me and we think

we can do it all alone And he wasn't created

to do that and and I mean you might get so far

But there's gonna come a point in time that you

just you just throw your hands up and say I just

I can't take it no more And I've been there.

I have been there. I have been up on the hill.

Yep Probably shouldn't say this because I'll

say it anyway in there to that point use your

mic that I have been up on the hill with my grannies

with a pistol in my hand, sitting by a little

fire that I built. And I said, I just can't take

it no more. And I had the gun in my hand, and

I was going to do it, and I just couldn't do

it. Every time I tried, I thought of something,

and then I couldn't do it. So I'm sitting here

at the coldest point of the coldest date we had

all year. And all I had was a little tarp and

a little sleeping bag. So I laid down when I

couldn't do it and let my fire go out. I woke

up and I had frostbite. And the only reason I

woke up was I heard a donkey, of all things,

braying somewhere nearby. And I woke up and I

had frostbite all over me. I ended up with pneumonia.

And, you know, you can't do it alone. I mean,

you'll get to that point where you just, I don't

know. Or I did. Anyway, somebody else did it

a better way. And if you let it get to that point,

sometimes it's hard to come back from. So when

you know that you can't do it in your heart,

reach out to another man. Say, hey, look, can

I talk to you a minute? Don't feel like you're

less of a man because you're asking for help.

I mean, that's only going to make you stronger

when you realize that you have it. That you need

it. It'll make you stronger as a person And then

the next time you won't get to that point again

with those you already have that Now I think

you answered it pretty good And I'm gonna ask

this one, but I feel like this one may just go

into what you just answered and I feel you may

have already answered this really but If you

could instill one spiritual truth into every

father's heart, what would it be? Love. Love.

The more love you've got in you, then the less

junk that you're going to have in you. By junk

I mean, junk. Literally junk. Drugs, beer, alcohol,

women. More more love that you can put in there

the more love for your family the more love for

your friends or strangers In the last room is

there is in there problem that don't belong.

Yeah All right last question see see No, no,

so what encouragement would you offer to a man

who feels unequipped to be a good father? And

before you speak, I'm going to adjust your mic.

To just try to be there. There's no manual, there's

no playbook for being a daddy, for being a father.

But just try to make every effort that you can

to be there for your... for your kids. I mean,

like you said, the little things, you being there

for the little things, that's what they'll remember.

They want so much to remember. You might go out

and try to buy them the biggest toy in the world

or the most expensive toy in the world. They'll

play with that for a couple weeks and then they'll

be like, what's next? What can I have next? Just

be there. Be there for the little stuff. Be there

for their t -ball. Be there, you know, like when

you was doing track. I wasn't there for a lot

of that. Just just be there as a parent be there

as a daddy and let them see you there. Let them

see you, you know being the person that you should

be and everything else to kind of work its way

out you just just make it make the effort to

be there and and Stop worrying about being the

perfect parent because there is no such thing.

There's one thing you're gonna make a mistake

Yeah, your kids gonna get mad at you. Yeah, they're

gonna say things that you want to hurt your feelings

Yeah, but just continue to be there be their

parent You don't have to be their best friend

all the time. At some point, you've got to be

the parent. But just be there and let them know

that you love them. And I think they'll remember

that. It may not be tomorrow, but like you said

earlier, years later, when they got kids of their

own, they'll say, you know what? I remember Daddy

telling me that. He wasn't stupid. He knew what

he was talking about. You know so yeah, I guess

that's what I'd say like it. I think that's a

good way to Close out again. I don't know how

long we've been going probably close to an hour

now Someone asked you to do what I like to ask

anybody interview to do To throw you on the spot

if you're comfortable with it But just to close

out can you pray for any men listening? Dear

Heavenly Father, Lord, we come to you, Lord.

We just want to thank you, Lord, for everything

that you do for us every day, Lord. We just want

to thank you for saving our souls, Lord. We just

want to pray for each man out there, each father.

We want to be father, Lord, and just pray that

you just guide them, give them the knowledge

that they need, Lord, and just lift them up to

you, Lord, and help them, Lord, to grow spiritually,

and just help them to love their kids, Lord,

and love their family, and be there for them,

Lord, and just guide them in every step of the

way, Lord. It's in your name we ask and pray.

Amen. man alright guys till next time