Identity Before Responsibility

Before time had a name, there was a garden, a

place where heaven and earth walked as one. This

is the Echoes of Eden, where we rediscover ancient

roots and awaken to our eternal purpose. We'll

just start out. I'll let you introduce yourself

first. anyone who's listening, a little bit about

yourself. So, history of drugs and you said the

Bible is the answer for that. Absolutely. Elaborate

on that. People hear that I think sometimes and

was it a specific scripture that helped you or

what was it that got you out of that addiction?

Yes and no specific scripture. When I met him,

when he entered in my life, inside of me, those

things, the desire for those things went away.

I still messed up on some other things. I struggled

with lust. I struggled with pornography. But

I never struggled with the drugs. And I've been

doing drugs since I was 11 years old. I got put

in prison when I was 30. born again when I was

30. That particular thing, he took that desire

away from me. I don't know. He replaced it with

something that was much greater. And that was

him. Right. Holy Spirit will take you way higher

than any drug. Oh, 100%. Yes, sir. You know and

there's certain there's certain scriptures along

the way that hit and it enhanced all that sure

My favorite Jeremiah 29 11. I know my thoughts

and plans for you there for good not disaster

I'll give you a future in the hope I realized

one thing where drugs had taken me which was

prison yeah, and without anything lost everything

I had Not that I had that much but the idea Going

back to something that was so little in content,

and you paid so much money for, and it only lasted

for a little bit, and it always causes you problems.

This wasn't attractive to me anymore. Right.

And this is something you said since 11 to 30,

that's almost 20 years of drug addiction. And

I feel like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong,

but I think we're on the same page with this.

regardless of the addiction, when you encounter

Him, and really it goes back to the scripture,

taste and see, when you taste of Him, the stuff

of this world begins to fade. Can you talk about

your encounter first with Him? What did that

look like for you? And was this a, obviously

I know there's some people that walk through

a program that helps them get rid of drugs. Was

yours an instant thing? Or was yours, did you

just go through a program? Was it a, I can't

think of the word I want to use. Was it a process

you had to walk through or was it one of those

things that God did in you and it was like, it's

no longer? I did not go through a program. And

I'll say this very plainly, I'm not a great big

fan of programs. I can understand that. Because

when I was in prison, I went to some of those

programs because I was required to. But once

I realized it, I didn't see anything in those

programs necessarily that changed me on the inside.

One thing is I'm not going to confess who I used

to be constantly because I'm not that anymore.

I see where you're going with that, yeah. 2nd

Corinthians 5 17 says what any man who if you're

in Christ your new creation creation not not

a remanufactured you not a remodeled you but

a brand -new you old things pass away behold

all things become new I grabbed hopes of some

of that very quickly when it when it was concerned

in certain things It's funny you bring up that

scripture that was actually the scripture I was

going to use for our conversation. That was the

main scripture of this conversation. In the light

of the Amplified Version, it says, Absolutely.

So that's basically what you experienced. Absolutely.

So I think the problem is that most people have,

and it goes across all denominations, is biblical

illiteracy. I would 100 % agree. If you want

to put something together, you've got to read

the instructions. So if Christ, Colossians 3

1 I believe it is it might be 1 3 or 4 it's he

made everything and there wasn't anything made

that he had made yeah if he if you look around

and see everything he made in in when he I Know

people have a misconception though. We're all

in his image. We're not all in his image If we

were in His image, we wouldn't need to be born

again. We have to be born again into His image

because we were raised up in the image of Adam.

Genesis 3, 5 says that Seth was born and he was

after Adam's image. So we've continuously had

that image since then. That's why Jesus had to

come in due time to pay to get the image back.

All of my life and all of everybody else's prior

to receiving Christ as a genuine Savior, not

just a few words and an altar. You lived in that

image and everything that was taught to you,

that you were around, that you saw, it all put

you into a place where you're at. I was around

addiction in my home. You know, drinking alcohol

wasn't a big foreign thing to me. Right. Even

though I went to church with my grandma, I don't

recall anything at that time that intrigued me

enough to be born again or even think about it.

You hit something that I... I know me and Amanda

has talked about this recently, and I may have

mentioned it to somebody else. I'm trying to

think. But you said something about Biblical

illiteracy. And I think it's important. You know,

one of the scriptures that comes to mind when

you say that is, my people perish for lack of

knowledge. When you don't understand something,

you misuse it. It's kind of like, and you've

heard me... You probably have heard me say this

in here, ministering to teenagers. If you just

read the Bible to read the Bible and don't sit

down with Holy Spirit, you can misuse that thing

all day long to hit people with stone. You have

to sit down with the Word to read the Word. I

don't think people understand that. But I know

I've told Amanda recently, I said, I feel like

most of the culture that I've grown up in, Based

off what I heard you say a while ago. You may

agree. You can disagree if you'd like We regurgitate

information Yes, I know I have and before when

we first started ministering a lot of the stuff

that I look back now that I taught was stuff

that was taught to me without me actually diving

down into this and It's not until probably the

past five or six years or so I would say in my

own personal journey where I started digging

in for myself. It's like the whole idea of I

taught teenagers in this very building, we're

sitting in our church, in this very building

I taught teenagers before when we was involved

in youth ministry that when Jesus hung on the

cross, God turned his back on his son. Well,

if he did that, then Jesus is a liar, because

he said, you all will leave me, but my father

never will. And my basis on that was when he

says, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

And I didn't understand that time back in those

days, when someone would have quoted the beginning

of a psalm, those people would have knew the

ending to it. Which if you read that psalm, he's

closer now than he's ever been. He was never

abandoned on the cross. So here I am, as a youth

pastor, teaching teenagers that he does abandonment

and can't look at sin, and if he can't look at

sin, we're all screwed. And this all ties to

that biblical illiteracy. We just regurgitate

stuff. We don't understand it because we don't...

How do I say this? You might put some better

language. I don't know. But it seems like the

culture I grew up in was it was all about the

man of God and the pulpit. Whatever he says,

that's wrong. You don't question it. You don't

go read it for yourself. And now we have a generation

of bottle -fed people. Bottle -fed men who don't

know who they are because they've really not

had what you experience an encounter with him.

So, in the last month, I had something said to

me. People who said said it to me absolutely

believed it to be true And they said well God

won't put on you more than you can bear So I

asked him I said when was the last time you read

that? He said well, it's been a while. I don't

know how long it's not there It's absolutely

not there I've looked at I've studied it out.

I want to make sure that I wasn't Exactly even

a lot self and I believe I'm like you I had to

go back and change what I believed after I got

a little deeper. So I said, this is why people

say that, because it's based off, I think, 1

Corinthians 10 .13. It says, there's no temptation

taking you, which is common to man. But with

every temptation, God gives you a way out, right?

That's not him putting less than you can bear

on you or not putting more than you can bear.

It's the actual idea of, hey, you're being tempted.

here's your door you don't have that you don't

have to give into it exactly so in if and i just

talked to somebody recently last week actually

and i said if you lift weights and you don't

ever increase your weight your muscles will never

grow yeah romans chapter five and second peter

chapter one tells you the process of what him

putting on you more than you can bear Put more

on you right? Yes, and their end result is a

copy of yes It builds your patience then patience

comes into something else and then something

else comes into love brother in love and the

end result of pressure Results in a copy of which

is his kind of love which is the only thing that

produces real results These are these deep conversations.

Where do you go with these? Because to me even

when we're sitting here talking a lot of what

I think about goes back to what you talked about

about the programs and When you said I forgot

because I've heard some of this stuff before

But I forgot it to you said a lot of these programs

even for addicts and stuff you have to repeat

consciously I am this Well, that's a dangerous

statement if you're not careful. Right. Proverbs

says, so a man thinketh. As a man thinketh, so

is he. You're declaring all this stuff. And then,

but here's the problem. You're not only declaring

it. When you're declaring it, you're hearing

it again. So there's a two -thing process going

here. You're repeating it, hearing it again,

continuing to believe it, that I have this problem.

I am an addict. But no, you're not. It's like

with the people that Jesus encounters, okay,

think about the woman caught in adultery. He

doesn't come and beat her up with the sin that

she's been trapped in. We are the only ones that

we identify everyone based off their problems

and their issues, failing to see the Christ within,

failing to see the person who Christ redeemed

inside. Now that makes a little bit more sense

here in the beginning of your story about if

you have a bunch of men doing this process, then

they're essentially just trapped in this continual

swing of things, never understanding there's

a better way. Christ has done something. And

it amazes me, you take the, I was listening to

a message last night about the woman that he

meets at the well. and about, you know, she basically

becoming an apostle in that region. Right. Over

one encounter, Barry. Right. One encounter, one

authentic encounter with him and this woman who's

been trapped in this cycle. So it hits me funny

when you said that because she had an encounter

with him but he didn't tell her anything, she

didn't already know. Exactly right. which is

insane, really, if you think about it. She knew

everything he said. She just knew that he didn't

know it. Yeah. But everything, she already knew

everything about it. So in the midst of that

idea, when I started reading the Bible, I found

myself in several different ways. Deuteronomy

28, if you read it, it's a chapter of blessings

and curses. And at that time, when I first got

born again and I started reading the Bible, I

happened to cross that. I just started reading

and read all the time for hours because I was

locked up. I mean, I could have done something

else. I didn't do it. But I found myself in those

curses in the latter part of Deuteronomy 28,

even to the point of my children will be raised

by other people. I didn't have much of a grasp

on the first 13 verses. The biggest part of that

chapter is curses. Verse 13, after he says, if

you hear my word and do it, or hearken into it,

all these blessings will come fall upon you.

They'll chase you down. They'll catch you. Right?

And that's been my experience the whole time

I've been born again. I'm not saying I've had

all yes answers. I'm not saying that the world

is treating me fire. I'm not saying any of that.

Right. The idea of God rescuing me and doing

things in my life that only He could do has been

prominent. I was sharing something with a guy

the other day, and I think maybe that's one thing

that we miss. We like to witness to people about,

you know, you shouldn't do this or shouldn't

do that or shouldn't do this when we could tell

them, say, look, when I received Him, He's done

this in my life. We're the testimony. Right.

Said we're over we're overcomers by our testimony

in the blood of lamb Yes, and but later on it

says love and not their life the next verse is

love and not their life under there Yeah, so

the old person has to die If you're not consistent

in your living you're never going to be a good

witness because there's always reason for somebody

that you're witnessing Because if they don't

see the change in you hundred percent And a constant,

consistent change. And they'll know you by your

fruit. They'll know you by your fruit. Man...

I just... You think about the one encounter.

You've experienced an encounter. I've experienced

an encounter. How do I say this? You think about

the woman at the well, you think about the guy

who he found on the other shore who's naked in

a graveyard. Cutting himself. Cutting himself.

And just one authentic encounter. And I feel

like we've built, you've been in ministry, been

in churches, you've done all this. There's a

place you can get where it all looks good. But

there's no presence. And if we don't build a

place, and I think this is going to be twofold,

if we don't build a place as a corporate group

of people that people can come in and encounter

Him, not the man of God, not the worship team,

not the... You know what I'm saying. If we don't

build that kind of place, but even further than

that, if we don't become that place, the representation

of Christ in the world that we're in, how do

we expect people to have those encounters? When

you encounter men, you come from a harder background,

being with the drugs and all that kind of stuff.

A lot of men, in prison especially, How do you

help those men have an authentic encounter that

makes them want to change? And I'm not saying

you're going to have an answer to that, but you

know where I'm going with this. I have somewhat

of an answer. So here's part of it. I know it's

part of it. It says, the same power that Ray

Scorsese lived in us. Yes. The idea There being

a power that exists that took a dead Body yes

beat before you couldn't recognize him as a human

being And caused it all to come back together

And be raised and glorified in the midst of that

he just descended in the head Everybody says

he took back He did not steal the key. He did

not steal the key. The enemy had no choice. Hand

him over. But to hand him to him. You can't steal

something that belongs to you anyhow. Right.

And there's a scripture in Isaiah that always

gets me, and I can't remember exactly where it's

at, but it boils down to everybody looking at

the enemy, the devil, and saying, is this the

one who had all the agents all pull up? Is that

it? That's it? Yeah. That's all you are? Yeah.

That's what it said. Is that correct? But we

go around glorifying and saying, well, you know,

the devil did this to me, and the devil did this

to me. How about this? How about just make right

decisions based on the truth? And you might find

that the devil has no hold on you. How about

allowing the Holy Spirit to lead your life? How

about it? Have a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Relations, five, in the New Living Version. It

says if Holy Spirit controls your life, 522 and

523, He will produce these kinds of fruits. He

will. He will produce these kinds of fruits.

And Philippians 2, 12 says, God both wills and

does His good pleasure through you. The only

thing stopping it is us. We put the stop on it.

We put limitations on it. Right, absolutely.

Because of what? Because of fear. But we're afraid

what people will think. That's the reason we

don't worship to the elaborate point we should

worship Him that He's worthy of. That's the reason

we don't witness to people the way we should.

All of it is based on fear because ever since

we were a child, we were taught that you want

people to like you. Yes. But in essence, we don't

need people to like us. We just need people to

hear the truth. and automatically they'll be

attracted to us if they are truth bearers themselves.

Looks like I told our teenagers a couple of Wednesdays

ago, I think it was, where, you know, Jesus tells

you, there's a point where he tells the people

to love others as I've loved you. If we would

ever get to that point to understand how he sees

us, then that really frees me to see everybody

else. through His eyes. And I don't need nothing

from you. I don't care if you hate me, reject

me, love me, I don't care because I know the

value I have in His eyes and that's all that

matters. And so what does that do to the life

of us when I'm, it allows us to go to people

and begin to share our testimony. Why? Because

if you reject me, who cares? You're not rejecting

me anyway. You're not rejecting me anyhow. Exactly

right. And I'm going to pray the Holy Spirit

still sends somebody else to witness to you.

To confirm what I've already told you. Exactly

right. I've had another thing. Not only do people

believe that lie about you won't put on you more

than you can bear, but they also believe that

you can't be like Jesus. That's deep. That's

going to go deep. I've heard it so many times

in the last little bit. Yes. That's Jesus. Here's

a catch that I've realized really specifically.

It's very plain in the word. There's two plans

that were from or before the foundation of the

word. Before he formed all this, there's two

plans. Jesus is going to be slain. Actually,

he said Jesus was slain. The Lamb was slain before

the foundation. Before the foundation. And the

other one is, before the foundation, we were

predestined to be conformed to the image. I think

Ephesians 1 -4 even says, he chose us before

the foundations of the world. Yeah, right. I

think Romans chapter 8 says something similar.

Romans 8 · chapter mention

I think so. Yeah, first chapter of Ephesians

says it. And then it's something I've elaborated

on the last little bit. Ephesians 1 -18 says,

it's Paul's prayer. It's a good prayer for us

to pray, too. I think we kind of miss it. We

ask for the eyes of the understanding to be open

for people. But he said that you might know the

riches of the inheritance of the saints and the

hope of your calling. Yes. That's the one thing

we should be praying for people to understand

the hope of their calling. And everybody says,

well, I'm not called to be a preacher. Oh, I'm

not a worship leader. I'm not a whatever. But

we're all called. I think it's second Corinthians,

maybe in five to also since we all have the Ministry

of Reconciliation. Yes, sir. reconciliation.

What is that? Well, he reconciled us to the Father

so we can have the image back. We have to be

able to reconcile people to help them understand

that the image they're living in is not the image

we're called to be. Yeah. You're called to be

like Jesus. We're called to be like Jesus. And

so my answer to some of that is, I've got a new

song that's called, Will You Pray For Rain? But

in it, it says, you remember Elijah. James chapter

James 5 · chapter mention

5 says that he was a man of like passions, just

like we are. But he prayed, and there wasn't

any rain for years. So he's just like, I said,

well, if you can't be like Jesus, then be like

Elijah. And then they go, well, wait a minute.

He prayed, and there didn't rain. Then he prayed

again, and it did. And I said, well, Paul said,

whatever you've seen me do and say, You do it.

Yeah. Well, we can be like Paul then. Yeah. But

what they were doing, he says, as I follow Jesus,

you follow me. Yeah. That's their example. It's

kind of silly when you think about it. And I

understand Jesus was fulfilling prophecy. He

was God in the flesh, but he's also 100 percent

human and showing us what it looked like. Hey,

you've got scriptures who. where it says Jesus

withdrew Himself often to pray, to spend time

with the Father. He makes statements like, I

don't do anything unless I see my Father do it.

You have Him, before He does anything great,

as far as what we would consider, you have Him

being baptized by John, with the words of His

Father saying, this is my beloved Son, and whom

I will please, before He does anything, and the

Holy Spirit descending upon Him and remaining.

Is that not the same picture of what we're supposed

to do? Withdraw often and spend time with the

Father. And understand that the Holy Spirit remains.

Listen to that voice. Instead of, it kind of

goes back to what I said earlier, instead of

running to get a word from the man of God, and

I'm not putting no discredit on that whatsoever.

I hope people hear my heart. He wants to speak

to you. Absolutely. And not just on the big decisions,

he's there for the little stuff too. If you can

just listen, if we can just learn how to listen

to that voice. He said, my sheep know my voice.

And a stranger they won't listen to. The problem

is, we've listened to strangers way too long.

We've listened to strangers way too long, so

we recognize those voices a whole lot quicker

than we can the voice of him. It's another lie.

If it if it be that way. You hear that people

pray if it be that way. Well if you're praying

for healing it's absolutely God's will. Yes.

Well how do you know that. Well Jesus went about

healing all that was sick and oppressed by the

devil. He said just what you just said. He only

did what he saw and heard the father saying.

Yeah. So it's absolutely his way. He said if

you've seen me you've seen the father. So everything

he does is God's perfect will, even to the point

of dying, being crucified and dying on the cross.

That was his perfect will. And Jesus, in Matthew

Matthew 6 · chapter mention

chapter 6, had the disciples pray for that very

moment. What we call the Lord's Prayer, which

technically is just a practice prayer. He said,

when you pray, pray like this. He didn't specifically

say, I pray like this. You want to hear him pray,

just go to John 17. That's his prayer. Where

he says, I pray that they be one with you, like

me and you are one. And in it, in the Garden

of Gethsemane, he says, sit right here and pray.

He'd already told them what to pray. Thy kingdom

come, thy will be done. What did Jesus say? Not

my will, but yours be done. Right. What was his

will? That he die on the cross, that we might

live. He left his image on the ground, and we

got to pick it up. It's way simpler than we've

made it. We've made it complicated. Absolutely.

We've created doctrines. scriptures that should

have never existed and Holy Spirit didn't have

anything to do with it. But it's even to kind

of tie back into the identity portion, even going

back to how you said a lot of the programs are

built around this idea of repeating confessions

that are really lies about yourself. I'll push

back a little bit on something you mentioned

earlier, and I get flack for this, and it's okay.

But even if you want to go with the born again

thing, technically, if people would look at that

phrase of born again, we've had it in a... church

culture, and you alluded to it a while ago, we

just have people repeat a bunch of prayers. And

okay, you're good to go. There's no discipleship.

There's nothing helping people to understand

what that actually means and explaining to them

kind of what we've been talking about is this

idea that you're in His image. You've been created

in this after Him. That was the plan all along.

But if you look at the born -again, people say,

have you born again? What does that mean? You

look at the word, it means born from above. Like

I tell our teenagers, you did not come from your

mom and dad. You came from heaven. You might

have come through them. But what does that mean

to me as a man is that takes away all the excuses

you can possibly find about, well, daddy did

this, grandpa did this. These are my family struggles.

OK, well not if you're drafted in Him. And when

you come into that realization that you were

in Christ all along, it's like the whole Adam

nature. And I think you talked about that a minute

ago. You have the Adam nature and the Jesus nature.

Jesus says, I'm the last Adam. There's no more

after this. This is it. I'm coming to finish

everything. And one of the things that's been

big to me is, It seems the church world I've

grown up in has more faith in what the first

Adam did than what the last Adam undid. And I

heard somebody mention this other day. He said

the notion and the idea that Adam and Eve in

the garden can take a bite of fruit and ruin

the whole thing, but yet Christ can go through

everything that He did and have a lesser impact.

Something's wrong with this picture. but when

you talk like even what we mean you've been talking

about you begin to dismantle the religious system

and the reliance on all this that you have to

go through and it goes back to what we just said

it's simple just believe in him believe that

he's already paid that price that you're not

the addict that you're not the that you're not

the liar, that you're not the abuser, that you

actually are in Christ. That you're made in His

image, that Jesus was your model. Not the pastor

of the year, Jesus was your model. You know as

good as I do, men will fail. If people put their

hope in me, they're going to get disappointed

real quick. But if I can get you to point to

Jesus, He'll never fail you. Then and in Romans

8 26 it says if you don't know how to pray, you

know Holy Spirit pray for you. Yes, and And I

think what we've missed if we've got so caught

up in speaking in tongues or praying in tongues

that we've missed the idea of what it says after

that it says Holy Spirit will pray for you the

perfect will If Holy Spirit is praying the perfect

will of God for you and through you. Jesus is

forever making intercession for us. How in the

world do we make excuses for failure? That's

a hundred percent. And why do we keep failing?

If that kind of power is available, the raising

from the dead power, Holy Spirit praying God's

perfect will, mind of Christ in you, mind of

Christ, it said let this mind be in you, right?

that was in Christ Jesus, not esteeming everyone

as better than himself. Now how in the world

can Jesus esteem anybody better than himself?

He said, who thought it not robbery being equal

with God, but come to earth and took on the form

of a servant, and was obedient unto death. He

was obedient unto death. And then he was given

a name above all names. that every tongue would

confess and every knee back. So how can all that

exist in us and we just exist? You can't. You

can't just exist. There's no way you can contain

that kind of power in these human bodies. He

did. He could have used his godly power on the

cross. He said, I could have called legions of

angels to take me off of this, but in my human

self -control, because that's what it was. I'm

sorry. Could it be, and I think there's a scripture

about this, could it be that love constrained

him in that moment? Absolutely. And he knew,

in Hebrews chapter 12 it says, that seeing the

Hebrews 12 · chapter mention

cross, he looked past it and saw the glory. He

saw the actual attributes of God past that momentary

suffering that humanly speaking he did not want

to endure. Because he said if there's any other

way, that wasn't the God in him speaking. That

was the man saying, I'm getting ready to go through

the rough. I know what I'm saying. I've seen

what they did with the cattle, and they did it

more increasingly. much worse with him. Absolutely.

They said that nobody could really endure that

period. That beating was enough to kill somebody.

He ended up picking up his cross and carrying

it even though he was unrecognizable as a human

being. And then somebody came along and carried

it for him. That guy who came along is us. And

still has the audacity on the cross. Look for

the crowd and say father forgive And you know,

it was all part of the plan. They didn't know

they were part of the plan. No, no And then he

got him hit at his last breath one of the guards

looked up and says truly I guess man that will

mess with you. You start thinking about it. I

mean because it wasn't and this is what I see

couple questions This is what gets at me. They

hated me, they'll hate you also. If you really

look at this, it wasn't the world that was hating

him and pushing him away. It was the religious

system. It was the Sadducees, the Pharisees,

the political and the religious systems of that

day who hated what he was saying and doing. because

he was messing with how they believe the scriptures

said things he comes along and says no you've

heard it said but I say and messing with their

world and another thing they were in a place

of comfort yes they weren't they weren't the

regular run -the -mill Jews they were they didn't

get harassed by the soldiers everything like

that they weren't living in poverty they were

They were living in luxury. They didn't want

that luxury to start. And they knew because Nicodemus,

when he went to Jesus at night, he said, we know.

He didn't say, I know. He said, we know. So they

knew surely he was something special. the same

spirit that raised Christ from the dead, the

mind of Christ. And I feel like it's still so

much easier to make excuses of why we are how

we are, why I'm struggling with this, why I failed

at this, you name it. I feel like we've made

it so much easier to make excuses than it is

to just submit to Holy Spirit. And sometimes

I would think submitting is the harder route.

The biggest, I think, the biggest weakness, and

there's a reason behind it, the biggest weakness

in the entire body of Christ is the lack of transparency

with the struggle. 100%. Because it says to confess

your fault one to another. But see, in today's

society, it's always been this way. It's hard

to confess your faults to other people because

they run a blab and they judge. I know I shared

something with somebody one time about my struggle

with pornography. And they never treated me the

same. They didn't ask me to come back to the

ministry. They didn't ask me to do nothing. And

I partnered with them a lot. So you can't just

share. And not everything, and don't get me wrong,

not everything is supposed to be shared with

people. There are some things that only you and

God have to reconcile. But there are some things

that regular people, the temptation that's common

to man. If we understood what kingdom we were

a part of, when you come to me as a man and say,

hey, Chris, this is what I'm struggling with,

then I should have the ability to look back at

Barry and say, that may be your struggle, but

that's not who you are. Let's talk about who

you are. and pull you out of that mindset of

just repeating that I'm addicted to pornography.

How many men have dealt with that battle in my

own life? It's like I tell the teenagers, I'm

not really interested in talking about your issues.

I know you have issues. If I as your youth pastor

can proclaim over you the gospel and who you

are in Christ and Christ in you, John 17, and

have you buy into this truth, Divorce yourself

from this life. As a witness in my own life,

the Holy Spirit will deal with whatever issue

you're trying to talk to me about. He's the only

one that can. Most of the time when we say, hey,

I'm struggling with this, most individuals want

to either just talk about it and beat you down,

or they'll lug it to your face but then do the

reverse afterwards and go blab all your stuff

to everybody else or whatever. That's not the

way it's supposed to be. They'll stamp you as

just yeah, and that only increases Once you once

a once people done you that way you're not best

after that so We and then I say that First John

I believe is chapter 4 says he did has that this

Isaiah 4 · chapter mention

hope This hope yeah, not just have this hope

of new image, new life, new power, new everything,

purifies itself. So there comes a time, and I'm

going to backtrack a little bit, he's talking

about the lack of discipleship and things like

that. If the world treated babies like we do,

and I say I call babies, just now regenerate

brand new creatures in Christ. Yes. If the world

treated babies like we do, they'd be in court

from the left. That's man. That's child abuse.

Yeah. If we didn't teach them how to eat and

starve to death, then we'd be in jail for murder.

But we don't teach them how to eat. I had an

experience in the I didn't get born again until

1998. I'd say that. I had experience about 1990.

I went to an altar and I did what everybody does.

I know something happened because I got healed

or something physical. I knew something happened.

Right. But the place I was at, I didn't dig in

and nobody pulled me in. So I drifted away of

course the next right that was in 1990 I went

first in 1998 the next eight years When it says

what's a strong man's cast out and he comes back

found the house empty and seven times greater.

Well, okay So, if we would learn to treat young

laborers just like we would our kids, we wouldn't

let our kids starve. Nope. We wouldn't. We just

wouldn't do it. It's like we expect someone who

just stepped into this today, we treat them as

if they've been here 20 years. Right. And, you

know, you take an addict off the s*** Just take

anybody in this picture, really. And if they

just started this journey today, they need a

lot of discipleship. I mean, don't get me wrong,

I 100 % believe they can have an encounter and

turn everything. But there still needs to be,

I believe that's why there's the fivefold ministry,

the apostles, prophets, teachers. They're there

for a reason. And not for the, and I love how

somebody, I forget who said it, but those people

are not like, I'm over you type. They're one

of the great, they're supposed to be the greatest

servants to the body. That's really, I mean,

I heard someone say this recently say, you know,

when someone says, I think I'm called the pastor,

whatever you said, that's awesome. It's great.

It means you get to out serve everybody. We don't

look at that in the culture we have right now.

It's the other way. We look up to them instead

of whatever. But if we would realize that the

fivefold is there to help that individual and

understand that they just started this journey,

so let me help you. And to me, and I'm sure anybody

else in a different position could say something

different. But to me, that should be helping

people understand who they are and to come out

of those beliefs of Well, I'm this, and I struggle

with this. Okay, that may be a fact, but it's

not the truth. And the truth is actually Christ.

Christ is the answer to the question. So, when

you say that, it made me think of Moses. He said,

I don't speak for him. He said, well, in this

way, I'll use Aaron. I don't think he ever had

to speak for him. That's a good point. I don't

ever, I have to go back and read it, but I don't

recall that. That's where I found me. I wouldn't

have chosen it. I would have been the last person

to take it. But he knew the cause of where I

came from and why I had a big reputation in that

area. That he could use me and say, look, some

of the best confidence I've ever had is when

you said you've been to prison and you're a drug

addict, I didn't know, you didn't worry about

it. He didn't look like that. He didn't sound

like that. I didn't know that. I didn't assume

that about you. Right. That makes sense. And

that's where we should be heading. Yes. Okay.

So, again, I could do this all day long, but

to wrap it up, I'll ask you two questions, and

then I'll get you to pray for the men. The first

one, what advice would you give to a man who

feels lost and is searching for who he is? He's

big enough to do it. He's big enough to do everything

that's in Romans chapter 8 in your life. And

Romans 8 · chapter mention

he can take you way farther than you'd ever imagine.

If he can do it for me, I know he can do it for

me. Last question. If you could tell your younger

self See, that led me down that idea of being

that I fell into whatever was around me, just

to be accepted, because I've been rejected a

lot in my life. Right. So, you know, especially

people who have experienced rejection of any

type in their life. Been there, done that? School,

I mean, elementary school, high school, school

life. Most people feel rejected in school. Even

the ones that you think are so popular. They

still feel rejected. They still feel rejected.

They feel rejected because they're going through

things they didn't they don't know how to explain

their experience and therefore he baby But kids

are notorious about pointing out every little

flaw in every little detail of your life Yes,

sir, and if they can embarrass you the more they

can embarrass you the less embarrassments on

them. Yes, sir That's that's Jesus was He could

stop a crowd, he could speak to a crowd, a crowd

would listen to him. He said bizarre things,

and they still listen to him. So, why would we

not want to be like him? When we do everything

in the world to fit in, I've got a song called

Being Different from my YouTube channel. And

that's what it's all about. We all try to be

different. Just like everybody else is. When

I was younger, it was earrings, and still you're

a guy and you're hiring. We do all these things

to stand out, but everybody else is doing them

too. If we would just be more like him, we'd

stand out in a way that would be so profound

that it would influence everybody around us.

even without this stuff we could have these conversations

that we do all the time. Could you pray for those

that's listening and just close us out like that?

Father, I just thank you Lord that you love us.

You love us so much that you gave Jesus to us.

So we could become something or not. I thank

you for that. Lord, I know there's a lot of people

who are in positions right now that they want

to be in. And you're the only person Lord. Let

them hear this and let them hear some truth that

we spoken through this time that Pricks their

ear and their heart and they might just say,

you know, what must I do to have that? That's

just a simple just be just receive Christ Believe

that he is everything he said he was and he can

be that in us Thank you. Thank you As we turn

away from all the old stuff we used to do and

just let our life become new. We'll let it be

glorified in you. That's our main objective.

That's our main goal. It's to satisfy you, who's

the only one worthy to be satisfied. So we thank

you for it, in Jesus' name. Amen.