Leading with Love - Not Control - with Ray Lowry

before time had a name. There was a garden, a

place where heaven and earth walked as one. This

is the Echoes of Eden, where we rediscover ancient

roots and awaken to our eternal purpose. We do

repairs, remodels, landscaping, basically upkeep

for people's house. We're leaning it more of

a ministry sense towards the people that are

unable, or maybe they just don't have the money

because everything costs so much now. Leaks,

if you got leaks, it's caused issues, or maybe

your porch has just been so weathered because

you've been unable to maintain it. We'll come

in and we'll see what we can do to help. Either

freshen it up, alter it, rebuild new ones, whatever

your budget is that we can help you get to. Alright,

so how detailed are we doing this? Like when

you say remodel and stuff like that, like how

detailed are you trying to... We're not going

to go in the whole house. If you've got a floor

to discuss some weak spots, we'll go in and we'll

fix those. Or maybe you want to put down a new

flooring. We can do that. It's like small remodels.

Yeah, patching holes and walls. No, if you want

a new window installed in your house, that's

not me. I have not began to try those on my house,

so I'm not going to say that's my expertise.

But we named it, we was looking for the name

to show we can do a ride, a wide range of things.

And some of the names I've come up with, a lot

of them have already been tooken. So when I started

looking for alternate ways of saying it, the

one that came up was versatile. And I'm like,

versatile? We're pretty versatile. You know,

we can, we can do, I can do flooring, I can do

tile work, I can do plumbing, I can do light

electrical, like I can add an outlet or I can,

you know, change switches. I can change a fixture

in the ceiling. I may be calling you. Call me.

I can do a lot. Unfortunately, you know, Can

you add like exterior outlets? Mm -hmm. Oh, I

may be calling you for that. I started recording

by the way. I figured you had, but when you looked

at it, that's why I was leaning in to get closer

so it picks up really well. You did really good.

You picked up on those signals. Yeah, I'm learning

those because I've noticed... Oh, Lord, I forgot

her name in the choir, but she gives her hand

signals. Jennifer, yeah. Jennifer, and if you

don't pick it up, then she's gonna give you a

voice signal. Yes. And I still struggle trying

to watch her, but I get caught up. When I play,

I always make sure I can see her hands. Yes,

you've got to watch them hands. And she makes

it so hard to keep up with her and not get caught

up in worshiping. I struggle a lot. I can see

that. I do. When you get into that, because people

don't know, but you do help with the lyrics and

stuff. And I've been in those moments where if

the spirit's moving, I'm taking the words off

the screen. Like if you're focused on the screen,

you are missing the point. Something else to

step into this room and get your attention off

that screen and get your attention on him. That's

just one of my things. Oh, it gets me a lot.

I have noticed last week, Barry doing hard fought

hallelujah. Yes. I heard it. I heard his heart

in it. And there was nothing. else I could focus

on I just couldn't I tried and I'm like I gotta

get back I gotta pay attention to this and it

was still just Barry his heart just pouring out

in his guitar and I'm like I give up I gotta

just hear him and I gotta thank God for what

he's doing through Barry yep and it was just

amazing and then I had to go tell him about it

because he's like oh we sounding pretty good

back here and I'm like from out there from me

your heart was just grabbing everybody because

it was poor You couldn't avoid it. There's a

difference when you sing from the heart and just

sing the thing. Mm -hmm. My fault. You can tell

when someone's doing it from... You can tell

when someone's doing it from the heart versus

I'm just doing this because I can. Mm -hmm. You

can pick up on that in the room. Yeah. I think.

Oh, I definitely know. I've seen it. So now that

we're into the conversation, tell everybody about

yourself. I think... everyone listen this is

the third trial because of my computer equipment

here but the third time yeah is a charm we got

it tell me about yourself oh man I came from

a wonderful loving home from two parents who

did not understand what a home was they stuck

together they're still together they've been

married forty four years this year My father

taught me everything about repairing, providing

for yourself. If it breaks, don't be afraid to

tear it apart and try to fix it. You know, you're

either going to fix it or you're going to mess

it up worse. You're going to create more problems.

Yeah. And you just dive right in and hope for

the best. I feel like I'm going to make more

problems when I tear stuff apart. As we all do,

especially when it's brand new and you don't

know nothing about it. If you've never installed

a garbage disposal, you'll see what I'm saying.

It's a whole mess of things to get into. But

once you've done it once, you're not so scared

of it the next time. That's true. And it kind

of goes the same with stepping out in faith.

You might be afraid to reach out and pray for

someone or to lay hands on and pray for them,

but once you do it, you break that fear. Okay,

I've done this before. I can do it. It's not

dark to me no more. I've seen the light in there.

I know where to find it. I've seen it. It touched

you. That one touched you. I've seen it light

you up. You have no idea. I'm going to feed it.

I'm going to feed that one inside of me. For

everyone listening, we actually have a back -to

-school service that we're doing tonight. We're

recording this earlier. And that's actually my

messages on being in light and the darkness.

So you're just hitting on things that you don't

even know that's in my notes from us just sitting

in here talking. That's just that's crazy, but

it We're commanded to do those things. Yeah,

like I think we get into a point of At least

have this how it was when I was growing up of

we just have to invite everybody to church because

the church is When we get them into the building,

the pastor can do his thing and we'll be good

to go. Yeah, our job was complete at that point.

But we're actually the ones who are supposed

to be the church out there and go when we see

them in the wheelchairs or whatever to say, hey,

let me pray for you. Me and Amanda actually had

this conversation last night because you hear

a lot of church people say, well, let me pray

about it or if God tells me to do something,

I'll go do it. But didn't he already tell us

to go lay hands on the stick? Like, we're waiting

for a word. Is that just us covering up our fear

of what if this don't work? What if it does?

What if it does? You missed that opportunity.

And I think, you know, I may have told y 'all

this story. I don't remember, but I want to say

mention the conference. But there's Todd White

who has a lot of videos of praying over people.

He told his testimony one time about he When

I think it was either five or ten people a day

his goal was to pray over and He would go home

and write in a journal the people that he prayed

for But he never saw anything happen But he said

he went back to the same scriptures believe in

the mark where it talks about they shall lay

hands on the sick And they will recover and that

verse never changed No, regardless of what he

saw with his natural eyes that verse stayed the

same I think he said he did this for about six

months before he ever saw his first miracle happen

in front of him. Yeah. But how many times do

we get caught up with first time I prayed, I

didn't see nothing happen, second time, nothing

happened. So maybe this changed things for me.

I struggle with remembering. I know I struggle

with remembering. I know if someone come up to

me and be like, Hey, can you pray for me or can

you pray for this person or can you pray over

this situation? I have to write them. And a lot

of people, even Pastor Jeff said he has to do

it right then because he knows we'll forget.

In 10 minutes something else has been distracted

him or he's working on and he'll forget it. Yeah.

So I think it is very important that when it

comes right then it's brought to your attention.

Do it immediately. You know the same with if

you're led to buy somebody's meal or offer gas

or give them a ride. Do it immediately, because

if you don't, God's going to look for someone

else to step in and do it, in that place. Because

it's something that He knows and He's done. He

has a purpose behind it. And I always try to

keep that in the back of my head. Do it immediately.

Don't wait. Did you act on it then? Don't wait

five minutes, five hours? Because maybe there's

an opportunity that's in front of you now that

may not be there. five minutes from now. Maybe

there's an opportunity for that individual now,

that you're the one that he has in their crossways

right now that's listening for his voice. I know

I've been in moments like, is that God, or is

that... Like, if I'm going to come up with this,

probably not. This has got to be God in this

moment. And I've learned to ask questions, so

like if I'm... Even with the teenagers, if I'm

feeling something, I'm going to ask questions,

well, do you feel this way? Or does this make

sense to you if I say it? And if they say yes,

then I know to continue pursuing it. If I miss

it, we're all human, we can miss it. But I think

you've got to be obedient to step out. Which

I think, I don't really care, we'll get to notes

or whatever, but our whole theme was supposed

to be servant leadership. And tough and tender

like Jesus, this is exactly what we're talking

about. serving other people. Well, how? One of

those ways is praying for them. Exactly. You

are being Christ to that person. You're a representation

of heaven in that moment. Like, how important

is that? I learned recently this year about interceding.

I never know what interceding was. I mean, if

you had mentioned interceding, I know what it

is, but I never realized that spiritually, You

intercede for people. When you pray for someone,

you're praying for them, and you're adding to

their prayer, or you're praying in place of them.

Because they may not have the power. They may

not have the knowledge. They just may not have

the will. And you're doing it for them. And Jesus

does that for us. Constantly. And we are to be

interceders for others. We were given a Holy

Spirit, and He is called in the Bible an interceder.

He intercedes for you. Well, you think about,

and I've heard growing up in church and stuff

that I've heard even pastors and ministers say

this kind of thing about, well, if someone don't

have the faith for it, then it may not happen.

But then you have Lazarus. Lazarus is dead. What

kind of faith does he have to get out of the

grave? Exactly. But you've got Jesus who's saying,

get up. Yeah, He had enough faith and He interceded

for Him and called Him back out of the grave.

It tells us that we can have that kind of faith

too, even if you don't believe for it. I believe

God can do it for you and show you just who He

is to you. I believe if you want to come out

of the wheelchair, I believe God can make that

happen to reveal His goodness to you and make

your life turn around. Yeah. You think about

the two young people we got in the hospital we're

praying over. They don't have the faith right

now to deal with it. They're relying in that

situation on our faith and our prayers to see

this happen. To call healing into them and to

bring them closer to God when they're not able

to speak. We're able to speak for them. And that's

part of being a servant. Speaking, going for

others when they're not able. And so you think,

so this was one of the scriptures I'd sent to

you, if you look at it in John 13, and I'll read

it for everybody. It says, this is verse 3, Now

Jesus was fully aware that the Father had placed

all things under his control, for he had come

from God and was about to go back to be with

him. So he got up from the meal, took off his

outer robe, took a towel and wrapped it around

his waist, poured water into a basin, and began

to wash the disciples' feet. Like this is Jesus

we're talking about. Creator of everything was

there in the beginning, with Father and Spirit,

all things created through Him, by Him. This

is Jesus. And it clearly says, fully aware that

the Father placed all things under His control.

Like if anybody can sit on His high stool and

say, you will serve me, He could do it. But instead,

straps a towel around him and kneels down in

front of 30 feet and begins to wash them. They're

the ones that constantly looked at him as knowing

what power he had. Yes. He knew his power. They've

watched him. They've walked with him. I watched

that yesterday when we watched the season 5 code

and that was in there. And they fought with him

about it. Which I can understand when I watched

it. I could see... I would struggle with that

too, like how would I let someone like my father,

even if like my biological father washed my feet

at my age, I would still struggle with is it

right. Now I understand now because I'm wiser

why he done it to teach them to be, to realize

that even as high as you can be, you're still

not as powerful as God. You're still under Him.

But when you pick other people above you, and

you lift others up above you, you're bringing

them closer to Him, and He sees you for it, and

knows what your heart is doing it for. And you

just think about that whole mentality from that,

even to our conversation with healing people.

If you watch, have y 'all watched about five

seasons of The Chosen? Okay, so you've seen the

moments where he's coming back from healing everybody,

and you can tell his body is just devout. It's

the same principle. He has given of himself,

worn himself out by healing numerous people,

some that may never get what happened. They may

not fully understand. I forget what story is

in the Bible where he killed a blind man. and

the Pharisees are asking, well, who healed you?

I don't know. We need to know who healed you.

All I can tell you is I was blind and now I can

see. This is the same. He doesn't do it for this

fame. He doesn't do it for look at me. He's just,

this is the heart of my father. I'm just doing

exactly what I know he's created me to do. I'm

doing exactly, I think he even says it, I don't

do anything unless I see my Father do it. I don't

say anything unless I hear Him say it. All of

it is just nothing but servant. Truly. And when

you say, you know, Him with the Father, what

the Father wanted Him to do, there's the scripture

that I had that I wrote down. and 20 he talks

about sons the son can do nothing by himself

he only sees what the father's doing whatever

the father does the son also does for the father

loves the son and shows him everything he is

doing he is teaching Jesus by doing what he's

teaching Jesus to do things and Jesus is doing

it but because he knows the Father is with him

and he's doing it with him. And Jesus was teaching

his disciples, this is what the Father wants

you to be like. He wants you to be humble enough

that even with the power he gives you, that you're

going to use it for righteousness, never for

yourself. And when as a Father you step into

your house and you do the same for your children

and you teach them Through love to wash dishes.

Through love to sweep the floor. Through love

to clean your room. You set them on a mindset

that it's no longer a punishment. It's work given

to you by the Lord that'll help others put joy

in others like your parents. But also you can

do it and have a joyful spirit about it. 100

% yeah, you know you don't always have to be

wild either one happen to clean you You can get

it around and be like, you know what? I'm gonna

clean this for my parents so they don't have

to They don't realize I did it. I'm just gonna

clean it. I ain't even gonna say it was me Yeah,

I'm waiting on my kids to do that But I know

they will one day because every day when I see

okay We take turns in the house. There's three

adults in our house We take turns cooking. There's

seven of us. We split cleaning. Sometimes you've

got to delegate it to the kids. Like, hey, pause

what you're doing, what you're enjoying yourself.

Let's take time back to the home, clean the home.

You enjoyed the meal. You didn't have to cook

it. You can at least participate in cleaning

it up as a sign of thankfulness for the meal.

Be thankful that you had food to eat. Because

we could have slapped together some hamburger

and macaroni and cheese and tomatoes and just

throw it in the pot and be like, enjoy. Yeah.

But no, we take time and we make wholesome things.

We try to make things that you like. We don't

want to do pinto beans and pot roast every night

because we know you don't like it. Yeah. We'll

do chicken nuggets for dinner. I'm not a major

fan, but I'll eat four or five. I'll suffer with

it for a night to keep you happy. I know what

you want, what you want. Exactly. And when it

comes time to, I'm not saying I'm the pot roast

lover. That's my wife. She loves pot roast. I'm

more like, give me the steak. I'll eat hot dogs

or I'll eat breakfast for dinner. I don't mind

cooking all that. It's a lot of food to cook

if you figure all the breakfast stuff. I don't

mind doing it. I know they enjoy eating it so

to me I get to see the joy of them being full

on doing it, eating it, enjoying it when it comes

time to clean up though. I need some help because

it's a lot of food gotta cook. So true. I try

to also teach them you know as you're doing things

and you know you're making a mess don't be afraid

to try to clean as you go stay focused on cooking

because lord knows you walk away for two seconds

you don't burn something yeah but when you know

you're done making them go ahead and clean that

touch your stuff back to where it's not cooking

so fast and you're not rough yeah and generally

when you can do things where you're not rushed

they come out a lot better You know, if you're

asked to sweep the floor in the kitchen, you

sweep through it in a rush because you want to

get back to your game. It's not going to come

out that great. Your mom's probably going to

make you come do it again because you missed

half of it. Because you was in a hurry. If you

just slow down and do it right the first time.

Take a little time. Be thankful to get to do

it. Most people don't have a floor. Kind of like

porous in the hair. Slow and steady wins the

race. Patience is very hard to learn, and it

starts with parents. When you start learning

to have patience with each other, then you become

the bond of each other to have patience in your

children. It makes it a lot easier. People are

visual learners. Your children are visual learners.

They hear, they see, they watch, they know. You

must remember you're always teaching them. They're

watching everything, even the things you don't

say. They're watching and learning from you.

They watch how you drive. That was a big one.

You know, been a young guy, loved cars, had a

passion for cars. I have a heavy foot. I learned

a lot about control in a car. I can do a lot

of idiotic things in a car that most people are

like, you're stupid, don't do that. But to me,

I wanted to know how to do it. I watched, you

know, the crazy TV shows with car chases and

the car sliding. I watched the drift racing.

I wanted to know how to do it. Yeah. I didn't

always pick the best location, you know. Our

public roads is not for that. This is true. And

I had to realize, okay, when I get in a road

rage, I get in a hurry, and my kids are sitting

in the car. They're learning it. They're watching.

And... That was the first real wake up when I

realized my kids were in the back cheering me

on for doing something I know I shouldn't have

been doing. That they may try to do one day.

Yeah, that they thought was exciting and I'm

teaching them to do it and they're already building

a passion for it. I'm like, no, catch yourself.

You're teaching them to do it. You got to stop.

Teaching them what could be destructive behavior.

What you know how to handle if one of the sons

was to go out and try it without having your

experience and know -how. could be destructive

for them. Yeah, because I had a lot of close

calls. Even if it was my fault or not, I had

a lot of close calls. I mean, man, that could

apply to... More than just driving. That could

relationship. People have a lot of close calls

in relationships. They could close call of either

getting tore apart or get into a negative or

bad relationship. And we were just talking about

some of this earlier about, you know, we wouldn't

talk some of this. Okay, so as men with, now

I have a son, seven months, you got two boys,

two girls, I got two girls. You think about even

the relationship standpoint and they're not taught,

and I think we've had this conversation too,

they're not taught how to, what is a husband?

What is the expectation? of the man in the home.

What's the expectation of a dad? Like, these

are things that was just kind of, in some ways,

in no disrespect to my parents, was kind of like

just figure it out. There was never, I don't

remember anyone actually stepping away and teaching

these things. So like even if you think about

sex and stuff like that, that's not discussed

in the church. And we've had, me and Amanda's

had these conversations as the youth pastors

and stuff, even in previous churches of, if we

don't discuss it here and help explain to a young

teenage boy who's got hormones raging, hey, it's

normal. It's okay. There's a right way to do

this. And there's a path. There's a path to take.

We'll help you. But just jumping from bed to

bed is not going to be your answer. And trying

to figure it out on your own is not the way to

do it because you're just going to make more

mistakes, a bigger mess. But if we as men in

the house, as dads, as husbands, if we as the

church don't talk about these kind of topics,

we're not doing the next generation any favors.

No, we're just blindly leading the blind. Because

if what we remain silent on, the world will be

sure enough to help build them with anything

and everything in between. Yeah, and not in a

righteous way. Not in a righteous way. In the

exact opposite. And you're going to have failed

marriages, you're going to have just kids out

of wedlock, broken homes, broken homes. How many

young, okay, let's just be honest, how many young

girls will have abortions because the boys they

were with were not ready for all that. Stuck

in what I've heard called the dude phase. It's

a young boy. mentality of a young boy walking

around in a grown man's body. And so she doesn't

feel like she can raise the child, so now we

have an abortion happening. Well, what does that

do for that teenage girl who just had that? You

don't think the enemy is going to use that at

some point? Always going to try to drag the past

on them. Do you remember what you did? Now you're

trying to settle down, get your life right. What

about that child you had many years ago that

you had to let go because you weren't ready then?

Yep. You were doing your own thing back then.

And then we have guilt and shame. Two of the

heaviest burdens people can carry. Very heavy.

I don't wish them on anybody. Even a little bit

of guilt. Because then what happens, you try

to start feeling when that guilt shows up, the

enemy starts, you can medicate this, you can

drink your sorrows away, you can do all these

different things, the enemy will try to help

you deal with guilt. when the place you need

to run to is the father's feet. Yeah, and get

in his word. One of my things that I'm sure you

feel the same way just hearing you talk is as

a dad, if my kids mess up, I don't want them

to run away from me. I want them to run to me.

And that was something that took me and my wife

to work together on for me to understand how

to do it. Me and you both? I was blown away.

It wasn't until I realized my kids will go to

my wife before they will me. And at first, I

kind of was. I still got to break some of that.

That might be the way it's meant to be. Maybe

it's supposed to be like that. In the beginning,

I was bond to it. Then I'm like, wait a minute.

When I try to talk to my kids about something,

they get defensive or they're afraid to talk

to me about it, there's something wrong. Let

me go back and fix what I did wrong because I

know I messed up somewhere. I'm still walking

through some of that. And I realized that going

back and trying to fix it was not happening.

You're better off to start trying to fix it from

that point. Just right here. Watching your reaction.

The greatest thing I learned was patience. Don't

react quick. This is, see this is the whole reason

for by listening that I wanted to bring you on

this podcast for me and because That right there

is something you mentioned when we had the youth

conference in the panel, and it just stuck with

me about, you know, when your kids be kids and

do something stupid, instead of reacting right

then, which anger could sit in whatever, you

have to sometimes walk away before coming back

and addressing something. I feel like the devil

tried to use that in the beginning with me years

ago. My excuse was, when you hear my voice, I

want instant reaction out of my kids. Yeah. For

a safety thing. If you're running across a parking

lot and you hear me scream, stop. There's a reason.

You're going to react quick. You're going to

panic. You're going to stop. And that's not the

way you don't want your kids to react out of

fear. Because fear reactions are uncontrolled

reactions. 100%. You want fast, controlled reactions

with your kids. So building the bond of trust

calm reaction slow the anger Makes Positive reaction

from your kids. Yeah, so when you're calm you're

Generally easy going with your kids Then they

know by the tone in your voice if it's serious

or not. They don't have a negative reaction.

They will go positively like That's my dad. Let

me go see what he wants. Instead of being like,

oh god, that's my dad. What does he want? Yeah.

You can get a better reaction out of it and still

get the same effect. You'll probably get it quicker.

Yeah, because the positive attitude. Yeah. They

will be quicker about it compared to being like,

fear. Like, oh god, he screamed at me. What did

I do wrong compared to, oh, thank you. He's calling

me. He must have something great for me. Same

thing works with our relationship with God. I

was going to say, yeah, 100%. When He speaks

to me, it's no longer I'm in trouble. It's, oh,

He's answered my prayer. He's got something for

me. This is what I've been praying for. Which

one is it? Is it for Him to use me? Is it for

somebody needs me? Is it for a word for the day

for God or knowledge? Yeah. And I get excited

when I hear Him. Because just like your best

friend, You wait for them to call. If you ain't

heard from them in a while, you're going to call

them. Hey, are you OK? Because I ain't heard

from you today. You ain't sleeping, are you?

You feeling all right? And I seek him more when...

How do I say it? I seek him more now through

even little things than I ever did before. You

know? Typical person seeks for the big things.

You know, oh, I got a bad doctor for it. Oh,

I got finance problems. I don't have to seek

him through those because I know he's there.

I only seek him through little things. You know,

oh, last night something didn't sit right with

me. Me and my wife were talking. We may not agree

on that. How do I talk to her about how I feel

without upsetting her? Or my child's dealing

with a new experience that I've never dealt with.

If I tell them what I'm thinking, they're not

going to listen. Holy Spirit, how do you... Let

me go talk to someone. Give me some wisdom here.

Yeah, that knows about these things. And I've

been told several times, go talk to an elder.

Go seek this person who's an elder in your church

or in your community. Because they'll have the

advice to come. You're seeking out wisdom. God

knows all, but sometimes... He wants you to pull

it out of others to break that fear of talking

to other people, seeking advice from other people.

Well, I'm pretty sure not to look it up, but

I'm pretty sure there's a scripture about seeking

out wisdom. And there's wisdom in a multitude

of counsels. Oh, I'm sure there's a lot of truth

to that. I didn't realize this, but I was told

this in something I was studying the other day

that stuck to me and I had to write it down.

The New Testament talks about anger over 200

times. Talks about anger. I didn't know that.

I didn't either. I mean, surely I know it talks

about anger. You got to learn how to guide your

anger. Yeah. Well, it even says be angry, send

not. That was after Jesus, and 200 times after

he had come and taught, they still have to teach

people how to deal with anger. Yeah. And I think

anger is one of the broadest doors you can invite

sin in your house. Because anger leads to uncontrolling,

without control. Then why else would it say be

angry, sin not? Because what does anger open

the door for? If you don't take those moments,

like you said at the conference, if you don't

take those moments to step away, And actually,

like you said a while ago, how do I handle this

situation? Instead of just being reactive to

something and damaging a relationship or whatever

because you flew off the handle and said something

you didn't mean to say. What can open the door?

What does anger open the door to? Negative, hurt.

You slap the handle, smack somebody. So much

things that you just don't want in your family.

You don't want it in your home. You don't even

want to welcome it around you. And patience is

what defeats it. Anger is a normal emotion. Oh

God, put that in it. You know. But it's how you

deal with that emotion. Jesus had to deal with

that when he turned over the table from the tavern.

He was angry. for what they had turned it into,

the trading and the selling and the buying and

the cheating of people over money. He used anger.

That is an emotional god -giver to use in righteousness,

not in unrighteousness, unclean ways. Never supposed

to use it in a point of actually harming people.

So I'll mess with you now, just because I didn't

know that was going to come up again, but it

was actually in my notes too about when he goes

into the temple, flips the table. and makes the

comment, you know, you've made this a den of

thieves. This is a house of prayer. I was reading

and studying actually something this past week

on that. And if you step back and really think

about what's happening, because I've always heard

it in our discussion before about you got churches

that have coffee shops and bookstores. Well,

they're making the den of thieves or whatever.

If you look at what they were doing, what were

they selling in the temple? Sacrifices. Sacrifices

for what? Sin. Which means the only reason I

was going to the temple was because I was conscious

of sin that I committed and I need to go get

a sacrifice for. And repent. And Jesus was basically

saying, number one, he's the ultimate sacrifice.

But number two is I never made you to be aware

of your sin constantly. Because as long as you

dwell on the sin, you're never going to focus

on him. True. If you're only focused on, this

is what I've done and I've got to clean up, you're

never going to self -help yourself. You can't

get past it. Just as Ray can't fix Ray, Chris

can't fix Chris, we have to go to those moments

and say, Holy Spirit, I've done something wrong.

What is it? Show me what it is. So it was never

about the whole money part of it. He's flipping

tables and all this stuff in the temple because

they have made this to be a sin -conscious environment

to where people are so conscious of everything

they've done wrong, that they've got to go to

the temple to get a sacrifice. And I just want

you to come to the temple for me. And they were

charging astronomical for taxes. And then I want

you to realize that you are the temple now. And

I don't need you to focus on it. If you go back

and read the Gospels and how Jesus interacted

with people that he interacted with, he only

ever tells them, follow me. and pulls them out

of some of the darkest places. And did not have

to address whatever they were dealing with. He

just said, follow me. They did the whole interaction

with Judah. I was kind of interested in watching

it, but I kind of hold a don't get connected

to it in my heart. And I know that's what the

director wanted to do. He wanted to put it through

what Jesus' disciples were dealing with at that

time. And you got to remind yourself not to get

entranced like this is someone's vision or thoughts

of what they proceed to happen. In which he had

a group of people come together for it. Absolutely.

But when they got with Judas and Judas had so

much guilt piled on him and Jesus could see it

See it into his heart and he even told him several

times in there. I had your heart before You you

know, I don't have your heart now and even to

the point Jesus has all this piled on him and

Jesus is washing his feet How he kept from breaking

I don't understand but I love how they just let

it be seen. They never hid how much guilt Judas

had on him in those times. Not just that, and

I didn't pick up, I think Amanda sent me a video

maybe last week or last about someone talking

about Judas. I had to go back and read it because

I was like, I don't remember hearing this, but

if you look at how the disciples interacted with

Jesus, they was all Lord, except for Judas. Judas

called him teacher. Yes. So it's all about how

do you see Jesus personally? Because everyone

else in the room understood that he was Lord

in that moment. He was Lord, period. But for

some reason, you still only saw him as a teacher.

Is that because he... I haven't read Judas all

the way. I've only glanced through what's, you

know, popped up or what I've been led to pull

up and research or double back and check. I think

he battled what a lot of people, even my wife,

battle is they don't understand because the time

frames are so different. Not only the fact that

we battle the distractions, they never even thought

about what would be in their distraction realm

now. For us to see it back through third time,

you really have to go back and realize they had

nothing entertaining. Unless it was themselves

singing and dancing, or if the community might

have had something going on, like singing and

dancing from a wedding. Generally, there was

no entertainment back then. I can see that. He

constantly loathed and bathed in that guilt.

How it didn't break him, I don't understand.

I still do not understand. I would have broke.

I couldn't help it. Is this the same time when

he looks at Judas and says, go do what you've

got to go do? Yes. It's in John 13, isn't it?

I believe so. Because he was trying to get Judas...

Yeah, he was trying to get Jesus not to preach.

It was in that whole period where he's washing

the feet, and then after that, someone's going

to betray me and all this. And he looks at Judas

and says, go do what you've got to go do. And

the other disciples didn't even pick up on what

was happening. They thought, one of the notes

I have somewhere talked about, they thought he

was just going to go count the money like he

typically does. They had no idea that he was

the one. that Jesus was referring to. And Jesus

never exposed him. Wouldn't, would not. Even

when he was literally sitting right beside him,

he never would expose him. Never, never exposed

him. Other than, some theologians I've read say

that John may have knew, because I know Peter

asked John, because John's the one leading on

the breast, and he says, ask him who's been a

betrayer. And someone put that Jesus may have

whispered, the one who did. The one I broke bread

with. Broke bread with me. And so John may be

the only person to know. I think it was James.

I'd have to go back and watch it, but I thought

it was James who told John, which is Simon, that

it was Judas who he broke bread with. It could

be. That's how it was portrayed in The Chosen.

I know that, but I'm pretty sure it was James

who he was talking to. I'd have to go back and

read it, but it's just... still the fact that

Jesus knew what was happening this whole time.

Washing his feet and then tells him, go ahead,

go do what you gotta go do. You gotta betray

me, go ahead. When they, I know we've gotten

way off between the teachers and servants. That's

fine. When Jesus was praying at that time in

the olive grove and He had John and all them

watch for him. And he kept catching them sleeping.

And there they portrayed him having the vision

of the one who went to sacrifice his son. Abraham.

When he went to sacrifice his son. And the son

asked, he's like, Dad, we got the firewood. But

we don't have the sacrifice. Where's the sacrifice?

And Abraham and Elizabeth said, the Lord will

provide the land. And I think they portrayed

that great Jesus realizing, you're called to

be this land. You're going to sacrifice yourself

for these people. I need you to do this because

nobody else is able. And from that point on,

he did it with a grateful heart. He's like, OK,

this is what I'm here for, for your people, for

my people, for this church to sacrifice myself

for. And that taught me sacrificing myself daily,

denying what I want, for my kids I'm now teaching

them. Yeah, you come home from school, you want

to go do what you want to do, you want to relax.

If it's playing your video game, or stop playing

basketball, you know that. But when me and your

mother are telling you, alright, before you do

what you want to do, give time to God. Spend

10 or 15 minutes. Thank him for, you know, you

made it home safely from school. Yeah. Thank

him that you come home to a house that has power,

that has food in it, that has running water.

You're able to make yourself something. You're

not sitting here with a couple crumbs in the

cabinet waiting on a parent who works three jobs

to come home with whatever little leftover they

can afford to share with you. Find things constantly

to be thankful for. And the more you practice

being humble, Practice showing that you're humble,

the more things God blesses you with. So, if

you come home and you're like, oh thank you God,

we made a home safely. Oh, come out of the shower,

thank you God, we got, you know, a shower. I'll

humble myself. I don't always take a hot shower.

I try to at least once a week take a cold one.

That humbles me for the next time when I take

that hot shower, like, oh it's so amazing to

have hot water. Deny myself. helps me draw closer

to God and also when my kids watch me deny myself

they're learning you got to deny yourself you

have to die daily for what you want and teach

your kids that mm -hmm yeah you would love to

go home keep your feet up watch whatever you

enjoy watching doing whatever you enjoy doing

but you realize when you get home your home still

growing it's still got things to do You might

have run out the door with a messy kitchen. Or,

you know, one of your kids might have made a

mess in the bathroom. You didn't realize. You

come back home, you thought sitting down. No,

you've got to suffer what you want and go take

care of what needs to be taken care of. That

teaches kids to forget about themselves. And

when you can forget about yourself and what you

want, you can forget about a lot of your problems.

Serving others helped me to realize my problems

are not that big. I can, you know, I can forget

about a lot of things. Knee pain. I can forget

about that. It's hard. You start wrapping that

towel around yourself and seeing other people.

Yeah. And you start going for others and often

your problems are not that big. You know, they're

nothing. Yep. I used to battle having sleep problems.

Sleep four or five hours a night. Couldn't sleep

no more. I'd be up. My thing was, okay, if you're

not sleeping enough at night, you're not working

hard enough throughout the day. That's a half

truth. You need to work hard throughout the day.

It does not have to be a manual, rough, you know,

blood, sweat, and tears labor. It can be a labor

for someone else. And your humbleness for doing

it for others gives you peace at night where

you can sleep earnestly, restfully. You can come

alive the next day feeling amazing. Sure can.

And literally you might have only helped somebody

sweep floors the next day before. You might not

even hardly broke a sweat, but your soul will

give you peace to sleep at night with no issues.

And I was blown away when I first figured this

out and started doing it. I sleep so much better

now. I mean, 90 % of the time, you know, when

your spirit's tired and you need to rejuvenate

your spirit, you, I'm learning that. There's

a day you don't have to stop and you got to rejuvenate

yourself. Your spirit needs rejuvenation. It

has to be recharged. Yes. And that day, for me,

was Thursday. Yeah, Thursday. I was just run

down, didn't want to do nothing. didn't feel

like they didn't have energy and it wasn't until

that night when I laid down and I was getting

woke up at three o 'clock in the morning I'm

like okay there's something in me that's not

happy and I got to figure out what it was and

it was my spirit needed recharge I hadn't took

time and just relaxed thought about what God

had done for me throughout that week how he blessed

me 100 % and got back my spirit connected to

the charger and recharge myself for the next

week. I'm recharged now. I'm feeling great. I

prayed a lot. I cried a lot that day. Saturday

morning when we come in, we've done the corporate

prayer here. That hour felt like five minutes.

It was about so fast and I'm laying there, I'm

like... I felt like five minutes and I just looked

over at my phone and I'm like... It's the same

one, you know, you mentioned a while ago, but

what I try to tell the teenagers is just start

with five minutes, just five minutes with God,

whatever that looks like. I don't know if I've

told this group yet, but we have told a group

before, like how many go to the bathroom at least

once a day and you're in there for like 10 minutes?

I said, how many have one of these little doohickeys?

I said, there's a Bible app. I said, if that's

where it starts, I said, my God, at least do

something. I said, you can't tell me you don't

have five minutes that you can give. But the

more you do that, the more it becomes just like

what you just said. The five minutes turns into

an hour that only feels like five minutes. But

it's amazing, though, because if you really think

about that, he can redeem time. Oh yeah. So if

you spend two hours with him and need to go get

something done, there's something, and I've heard

stories about this, where God can make a way

for that still gets done and you still feel like,

how did I do that? How did that work? How did

that work the way you did? I have felt things

like that. I want to say I have been a part of

it, but I'm not 100 % on remembrance. But I know

that like, Trying to do a favor for someone else

might have interfered with my plan or something

I needed to get through and Because I'm like,

you know what? I'll forget myself. I'll reschedule

that I'll do it later or you know, I'll just

whatever time I get through it when I get through

it and Because I give up myself God made a way.

Oh you made it just a time with something somebody

Yeah, come on in, you know, we made a way for

you. Come on in We got it taken care of. And

he will do that a lot. It's just crazy. It's

amazing. I love it. When we talk to some friends

of ours about where we live at, we don't brag

about our house. We have a 100 -year -old farmhouse.

We opened up one of the walls the other day because

we were replacing our door. We have a 32 -inch

door, a standard exterior door, 36. We have to

redo that whole setup. We pour into our walls

and look we have all rough cut lumber We have

true 2x4s and true 4x4s all in our house And

I had to stop and just look at it and be amazed

like how old my house is We have no insulation

in the walls we build out I'm pretty sure our

house is the same way But I took a video the

other last week when it was storming in Mount

Mary but not at all off the mountain because

we have a mountain view that looks over North

Carolina. Oh wow. And I took a picture and I'm

sitting there looking at it and I'm like, it's

so easy for me to walk outside and be humbled

just for what I have around me just by looking.

Because I have amazing views that most people

can't even paint. I know I couldn't paint them.

So the fact that God gave them to me and put

me there to see all the time, I have to constantly

just be thankful for it. There's no other way

I could be. A grateful heart. I have to be. I

couldn't even see no other way of being for it.

That's crazy. But those kind of views, though,

you can't... Man, I mean, every time I look at

it, it never, never ceases to just bring amazement

out of me. And you know, I don't know if you

have thoughts like this, but when you see stuff

like that, and it's like, and he created me,

died for me and you. Yeah. But then I get to

see this. Yeah. I've got to be a part of this.

Sometimes if you really think about it and let

it get to you, it's overwhelming when you think

about it. I think it sets off anxiety in my wife,

but to me it sparks excitement. I guess we're

men and women are so much different. What triggers

anxiety in me will spark excitement in her. What

sparks anxiety in her can spark excitement in

me. I can be grateful for it. And I got to teach

my kids also to look at that. Don't get overwhelmed

from what you see. Yes, it's great. Take it in.

Understand how powerful it is. But don't let

it overwhelm you. It's not in your control. It

don't have to be. Yeah. You know, storms going

on around our house. It's not in our control.

We can't do nothing other than sit here and thank

God that our house ain't falling. Yeah. Or that

we still have power. You know, we've lost power

at our house for five days. The first two years

we lived there, we never lost power more than

an hour. My mom kept losing it, and she lives

down in Arad at the bottom of the mountain. We

never lost it. And then last year, three different

times, we're hit a week at a time with no power.

My parents never lost it. I was more thankful

for me to lose power than my parents, because

my parents are all disabled. They ain't on heart

machines or monitors or anything that requires

electricity, but... I got to choose one of the

two of us. Yeah, I know I can survive. I can

get outside and cook on a grill and make food

for my family. My father's in a wheelchair. He

can't do that. Especially in a rainstorm. I wouldn't

even begin. I would have to go down there and

do it for him. Yeah. And I'm still visioning

my look off of my property, and I'm still just

like, I smile about it. Ever show it to you?

Uh -uh. Oh, Lord. I'm going to show you this

picture. It's actually a little video. I did

the picture first. But I like the video. You

gotta hit the play button on this. Oh my goodness.

We'll give him a minute to look at this. Oh my

goodness. And if you're looking about, you can

see Winston Salem. I'll zoom in, you can see

the building from Winston Salem. King. Yeah,

that's, that's uh... You can't paint that. You

can't, yeah. You can't do nothing with that.

I mean, I'm sure somebody could, but that's just

wild to look at. Right? So I walk outside every

morning, because that's my routine. My wife always

talk about picking your first part of your day

and dedicating it to God. God forgive me. The

first thing I gotta do is go to the restroom.

I'm gonna get over. When I get up, I'm gonna

go to the bathroom. And then I'm going to find

me something to drink because my mouth's dry.

I just gave up my fluids I had. And then the

next thing I'm going to do is I'm going to go

sit down, generally outside, where it's quiet

and I'm not disturbed. And I have to sit down,

get comfortable, realize I've got to feed animals.

There's my cat screaming at me, or my kid's cat,

or the dog's one outside. I have to stop what

I'm doing, tend to them. Take care about that.

I've read, you know, I'm not an animal. Lover

like I don't hate animals, but I'm not like I'm

not gonna make it mine. You're okay if they're

not there, too Yeah, yeah, it don't bother me

if I didn't have But now that they're at my house.

I know okay I want to sit down and I want to

spend time with God but God wants me to provide

for my animals first get the distraction out

of the way because if you sit down beforehand

you're not going to know they're just gonna distract

me and I can't I can't give him what I 100 %

so when I sit down outside and I Pull up either

my Bible app or if I just sit there and I start

praying and thanking him my days go so much smoother

and My relationship with my wife and kids Don't

get attacked as bad because I started off my

day with the first things first and Me and crystal

learned that in marriage. We learned that in

our relationship. We didn't get married We went

six or seven years together off and on fighting

breaking up before we ever decided to get married

looking back after nine or ten years of marriage

I think it was like seven years why wait why

did I wait I know now why I waited I was scared

yeah I was terrified of who she was and that

I couldn't control it and I wouldn't marry her

but then I realized When you build a house if

you don't protect it with the right insurance

You're gonna constantly live in worry losing.

Yeah, so when we got married we basically insured

our marriage we put God in our marriage and a

lot of attacks got Blocked took away and we didn't

battle those things no more then we were able

to work on the married and adjust to each other

to create this bond that God wanted us to have

and with him. Now it took a long time for the

glue to get mixed up you know yeah because I

didn't follow God as closely as I should. I was

a Sunday and pray for me when I needed it. I

didn't take time pray for others. I didn't take

time and realize how much my kids needed that.

But when my eyes were open to it, then I knew,

okay, you got to teach your kids while you're

being taught yourself because you want to teach

yourself. And that's in the Bible. You got to

teach and be taught. Even if you're teaching

your kids and you're learning yourself. Yes,

I know I've seen this so much that we wasn't

taught because They were distracted. And how

many times I learned through my kids. Ain't that

amazing? There's been a number, I've told Katelyn

before, I know I'm supposed to be your dad and

teaching you, but there's so many times she teaches

me stuff and I'm like, wow. Don't tell my oldest

son this. I got my boldness from him. I was not

a bold person. I was a very shy person. I didn't

step out. boldly I was not that person but when

I started watching my 8 year old do it walk up

to a group of strange guys and just become one

of them instantly like bonded sometimes he goofed

up sometimes they laughed at it it may not have

been all five of them in the crowd that he got

their attention but if he got the attention of

one he got in and he done what he set out to

do which was to become part of that crowd And

he was bold about it, and now I am now bold about

it because he taught me that. And now I took

what I've learned from it and grew it, and I'm

teaching our others about it. If I can get my

wife to do it. My wife can lead our girls. We

did get her on the panel. That was a shock, even

for our kids. They're like, I can't believe you

got mom up there. There was something. God moves

somewhere. I think Christie was up there with

the biggest help. I can see that. You know, women

battle the same things that men do in fear, anxiety,

and stuff. They need someone that's not afraid

to step out in that boldness to call the others

into it. And they will. And I think it helps,

as men, we help push them. Oh, yeah. You can

do this. You got this. Oh, yeah. Same with the

kids. You can do this overcome that the next

biggest thing that I've been Pursued of his practice

we talked about this on the panel. I still talk

about it with my kids. You got a practice You

got a practice been humble. You got a practice

been remorseful. You got a practice when you

sin and you repent, you got to practice repenting.

You're not going to do it right the first time.

You're not going to walk around and be like,

God, I'm so sorry, please forgive me. That might

be your practice one, but you better get serious

about it. You got to find the meaning in it.

Because you just saying you're sorry constantly

is not really doing nothing. No, because you

got to make sure that you're learning from your

apology. You're not going to do it no more because

you know how much you've had to go through just

to repent. Yep. Practice is a big thing in my

house. You know, I know to people that are big

in sports, you gotta practice. You gotta practice.

Same thing with your Bible. You gotta practice.

You gotta practice reading it. You can't sit

down and read your Bible in five minutes and

think that you learned something because you

got distracted. You gotta learn to get rid of

distractions. You gotta practice it. And in time,

you know, nobody wakes up 6 o 'clock in the morning

Chipper ready to go sit down, drink coffee, and

read the Bible. Those people scare me. If there's

anyone like that, those people will scare me.

I'm probably going to scare you because when

I learned it, it didn't take me long. I was a

fast learner. It took me like two weeks to realize

I can sit in peace. I've always knew that first

thing in the morning was my time. More of the

people that can wake up to Chipper, like I need

you to have some coffee or something before you

just get out Chipper. Well, when the... When

you sleep right, you can wake up in a great mood.

This is true. Because when I was a teenager,

I was the guy, the teenage boy that got up all

happy. That was me. And I kicked off all of the

house. Because they're like, why are you in such

a good mood? And I'm like, I slept fine. I don't

know what y 'all did. Yeah. Nothing to stir my

sleep. I slept great. I wake up like a million

dollars. Let's do this. This has probably been

my longest podcast, and I don't want to really

close it, but it's getting close to 430. Let

me ask you a couple questions and get your feedback.

I'll try to make a short answer. What advice

would you give to a man trying to lead like Jesus

in a culture that rewards domination? Read it

one more time. What advice would you give to

a man who's just trying to lead his family like

Jesus? What's something that you've learned through

your own battles that you could help. I could

probably go just a couple of minutes, but how

would you talk about the whole practice thing?

What would you tell a man if he's trying to lead

like Jesus? React in a way that you would want

to be reacted to. So put yourself in the child's

shoes. So if you told your child, look, there's

only two cookies left. One's mine and one's your

mama's. and ten minutes later you come back and

yours was eaten, or your momma's, you know, your

wife was eaten, of course you're going to give

up yours to your wife. But when you call your

child in there, you already know which child

did it. They got the cookie crumbs on their shirt,

some stuck to their lip, you know who did it.

You want to be serious, but you also want to

communicate the, you want to explain the guilt

that they feel. Because to a child, they don't

understand what guilt is. They just have a feeling

inside that they know they did wrong, and they

don't understand it. So when you explain to them

why they feel like that, and what brought that

feeling on, they're not going to want that feeling

back no more. And you can help with being that

way. Alright, so last one. If Jesus led your

home or your workplace, whatever, you have your

own business, If Jesus was to walk in and lead

your home or your business, what would change

tomorrow? That's something maybe that you're

working on now in life. What would change if

Jesus walked into my home and started to lead

it? No pressure. No, it wouldn't be a lot more

corrections for me, I would say. Him. Kind of

like the owner and the supervisor would get together

in their private meetings. The same in the home.

I'm the leader of the home. So Jesus would take

me aside and be like, look, these are your weak

areas. These are what you need strength in. This

is where I want you to pay attention because

I'm going to take over in these aspects. And

he's going to do the right thing. He would teach

me the same way that he taught his disciples.

It gives a whole new meaning to, when you're

weak, I'm strong. Yeah. And He wants you to be

weak. I didn't know that. He wants you to be

weak and I'm like, why? Because when you can

admit that, then you have to rely on Christ in

me to do this. I have to rely on Him when I'm

weak. He is my strength and to realize that I

can't be strong without Him. It brings tears

to the eyes to think about it, but that's what

He wants. That's exactly what He wants. And you

got to teach your kids to be the same way. To

be weak. But isn't that what we, as bad as that,

not what we want our kids to rely on us for?

Hey, when you're weak at something, like... I

don't think you would want them to be weak. Not

necessarily weak, but you enjoy those moments

when they come to you, like, Dad, how do I do

this? Yeah. Makes you, like, makes you feel important.

Yeah. Whether if they know how to do it or not,

they could be just doing it to benefit you. It's

just, to me, I guess it's just like, he's put

stuff already inside of us. Yeah. But we're relying

on him, like, well, help me figure this out.

I know you put stuff in me, but okay, here's

this podcast. I know this is in me, but you can't

help me with this. Where do I go with it? Yeah.

What questions do I ask, you know? How do we

make this work? I sent you a whole list of stuff.

We didn't touch hardly any of it. The stuff was

just an outline. It was like a fenced in yard.

We got in a play. I told you, don't ever think

it, and whenever we start talking, this is how

we're going to roll. Yeah, it worked out great.

And if it helps one man, then I'm all for it.

I'm all for it. Heavenly Father, thank you for

such a wonderful blessing you bestowed upon us

daily. gifts we receive that we may not even

realize are gifts. They just come so naturally

from you. We may overlook them. God, these words

that you have given us to share, we pray for

them to reach out and touch who you know they

need to touch, to guide them, draw them closer

to you, and build the relationship with you that

we have and stronger to keep the faith. Thank

you for all that you have blessed us with. Holy

be your name. Thank you, Father God. Amen. Amen.

Thank you, Ray. I appreciate it. I enjoyed it.

Me and you both. We're going to do this tomorrow.

Yes, sir.