Punishment vs. Discipline

Before time had a name there was a garden a place

where heaven and earth walked as one This is

the echoes of Eden Where we rediscover ancient

roots and awaken to our eternal purpose Hey guys

and welcome back to the podcast This will be

a bit different as I am Solo today, so we're

going to do a solo podcast like old times But

today and I Don't think this would go as long

as other podcasts when actually have someone

dialoguing with me, but I want to discuss the

topic Discipline versus punishment For men for

fathers for sons You name it. And I want to think

about a couple different ways I want to take

this. Number one, when I mess up, when you and

I mess up, do we assume that God is angry or

do we believe that he's shaping us? And if you're

a father, and this is primarily where I'm going

to pull this from, is when our kids mess up.

Do we punish them out of anger or discipline

them into purpose? So do we punish them out of

anger or do we discipline them into purpose?

And what does that reveal about how I think God

treats me? And right off the bat, I want to take

a minute here and be just transparent and vulnerable

because that's the only way I know how to do

this. I had a conversation Wednesday night on

the way home from from church and I Begin this

was talking to my wife But I wanted my kids to

hear what I was saying too because I think it's

important and we was I forget what the conversation

had started on But at the end of it, I was having

a conversation regarding How believe God to be

and how that whatever I believe about God is

kind of how I treat my children. Perfect example

and this sounds really petty really stupid I

know but it's where I'm at in my journey. I find

a tendency to get frustrated just when my kids

ask questions and I want to say and I could be

Wrong about what the question was at the time,

but I think My daughter wanted to dress up the

same this year. She wanted us me and her to match

we got some kind of glow stick costume That we

look like a stick figure When it's dark and the

suits lit up But she had No, I'm sorry That it

will is pretend the costume, but we also got

some kind of lit up mask and when I come home

she had asked the question, is that my mask?

And I got frustrated just because she asked a

question. And when I'm interested to believe

I'm the first one that beats myself up, I am

harder on myself probably than anyone else is.

And some of you men may be like that, I don't

know. But I remember I would have an internal

dialogue, like why am I so frustrated and aggravated

just because she asked a question. And I really

believe one of the things the Holy Spirit began

to speak to me was the concept that that's how

I saw Him. I grew up in a culture who, again,

no one ever said this was a thing, but it was

just kind of the culture and how I was raised

up in church. You just didn't ask questions.

You didn't question the man of God. You didn't...

I mean, whatever the pastor said, that was the

Word of God and that's kind of it. Again, I don't

think nobody ever said that. It was just kind

of the feeling that I had growing up and in the

culture that I was in. So I don't remember there

being a whole lot of room for questioning. Questioning

things, questioning thoughts, that kind of thing.

And so if I believe that to be true about him

and I believe that I can't ask him questions,

which I know is not correct because a lot of

the things I'm learning is because I'm having

conversations and asking either I'm asking Holy

Spirit questions or she's asking me questions,

one of the two. So I know that's not true, but

there's somewhere inside of me there's a belief

about this, that I'm not safe to ask questions

in dialogue Which if I believe that to be true

about God then obviously I'm going to turn around

and throw that in My relationship with my children

So again, I know it's stupid. This is me being

vulnerable and transparent. I'm on a journey

I've come a long way, but still got a long way

to go Most men, I believe, learned behavior -centered

punishment. That's how I want to say it. Not

identity -centered discipline. And there is a

difference. So right off the bat, let's define

the terms of, and this is my opinion, you can

take what it's worth. Let's define the terms.

So let's look at punishment first. Punishment

would be reactionary to wrong. Punishment would

be motivated by frustration or fear. The focus

of punishment is probably more for pain for the

past, that kind of deal. Discipline, though,

would be a response with purpose. I'll never

forget. I know this is just a good habit of doing.

that I was talking to a friend of mine who I've

had on the podcast before, Ray Lowry, and he

had made, I think it was at our youth conference.

I put him and his wife up on the, up on our discussion

panel. And he had made the statement that there's

times when his kids, he's got three teenagers

and younger daughter, but He made a statement

that when his kids do something wrong there's

times he needs to walk away and process and then

come back in order to handle the situation essentially.

And so I'll use that as an example if you were

in that position if you were just to respond

right off the bat you may be stepping more into

punishment and being reactionary to something

that was wrong. Instead of maybe you need to

walk away and to process What happened? What

do I need to do? The one realizing this and this

is what I teach your teenagers is That's not

who they are You know, we've all made mistakes,

but I don't want to let this mistake identify

my child So maybe I need to step away And instead

of reacting to the wrong that was done, maybe

I need to find a way to respond with purpose.

How can I use this opportunity and help reinforce

who they actually are, not focusing so much on

the issue and the mistake that was made, but

let me reinforce who your true identity is. Not

saying there's not discipline involved. Not saying

there's no consequences. I'll never forget, I

think it was some sort of leadership thing I

was looking at, but consequences are not good

nor bad. They're not one of the other. Consequences

are just that they are neutral. They're consequences

to a specific action. So are there consequences

when our children messed up? I mean, absolutely.

I don't think I would be convinced otherwise

of that. But it's what do those consequences

look like? Discipline is also going to be motivated

by love or punishments motivated by frustration

or fear. Discipline is going to be motivated

by love and the focus is going to be growth for

the future. So again, what are the consequences

for the moment? But how do I take this situation?

And how do I pull out and reinforce their identity

as beloved as... How do we do that? How do we

reinforce their identity and who they are as

my son or daughter, more importantly, as a son

of the king, a daughter of the king? How do we

reinforce that identity? So punishment is more

about control. Discipline is about calling. So

just a couple of verses here that I'll look at

let me see if I can just pull them up and We

can read them together So the first one is going

to be found in Hebrews chapter 12 and I'm going

Hebrews 12 · chapter mention

to flip over there real quick I Didn't have my

stuff marked so bear with me just a moment to

find it here All right, Hebrews chapter 12 and

Hebrews 12 · chapter mention

we'll begin in verse 5 and read through verse

11 And it says this and said have you forgotten

his encouraging words spoken to you as his children?

He said my child don't underestimate the value

of the discipline and training of the Lord God

or get depressed when he has to correct you for

the Lord's training training of your life is

the evidence of his faithful love, and when he

draws you to himself, it proves you are his delighted

child. Fully embrace God's correction as part

of your training, for he is doing what any loving

father does for his children. For who has ever

heard of a child who never had to be corrected?

We all should welcome God's discipline as the

validation authentic sonship for if we have never

once endured his correction it only proves we

are strangers and not sons and isn't it true

that we respect our earthly fathers even though

they corrected and disciplined us then we should

never demonstrate an even greater than then we

should demonstrate an even greater respect for

God our spiritual father as we submit to his

life -giving discipline Our parents corrected

us for the short time of our childhood as it

seemed good to them, but God corrects us throughout

our lives for our own good, giving us an invitation

to share his holiness. Now all discipline seems

to be painful at the time, yet later it will

produce a transformation of character, bringing

a harvest of righteousness and peace to those

who yield to it. So discipline seems to be painful

at the time. Most of the time when you go to

discipline your children, it is going to feel

painful. And I'm going to say this, it's going

to feel painful for you and for the child. But

listen to what the verse says, yet later it will

produce a transformation of character, bringing

a harvest of righteousness. So again, this goes

back to what we talked about just a moment ago.

Discipline is a response with purpose. It's motivated

by love and its focus is on growth for the future

When it's handled correctly and listen if you

get confused, I mean I've had moments in my life

Here's the fact my wife and I discussed this

on a previous podcast. Our kids did not come

with the manual We don't always get it right.

Sometimes we have to Apologize for how we reacted.

I have to do that more times than not it seems

That's okay Take a step back, talk to the Holy

Spirit, ask, what should I do in this moment?

What is the right course of discipline? How do

I grow them and teach them from this mistake,

but at the same time, not allow them to carry

the guilt and the shame and the mistake that

was made? And that's a big deal. That's a big

thought. That's something we really got to think

about. So just thinking from this verse right

here that again Hebrews 12 5 through 11 is what

I read God disciplines because we are his sons.

We are his children and any good father disciplines

their child That's going to be true with all

of any good father is going to discipline if

you didn't love your children you wouldn't care

to say anything or wouldn't Wouldn't be concerned

at all would discipline them You just let them

do whatever they want to do and, you know, hope

for the best. And then someone else was going

to come along later in life and probably look

more like punishment at that time. So another

verse is Proverbs 3, and it's 11 through 12.

It says, My child, when the Lord God speaks to

you, never take His words lightly and never be

upset when He corrects you. For the Father's

discipline comes only from His passionate love

and pleasure for you. Even when it seems like

his correction is harsh, it's still better than

any father on earth gives to his child. So again,

our discipline can sometimes look harsh, but

that's okay because it's coming, it's being motivated

from a place of love with a focus on growth for

that child's future. And again, as men, it's

the same as true when our father is dealing with

us. Maybe at times it feels like he's being harsh.

Maybe at times it feels painful, but don't Let

me say this get the right perspective on the

situation of what he's walking you through Because

he's good and he's loving So just let that sink

in so Discipline flows from delight. It's because

I love my child It's because I love my daughters

and my son that I'm going to discipline them

I'm not going to let you do just anything that

you want to do. I'm going to discipline you when

it's necessary to help reinforce your actual

identity and break these chains that's that seem

to be trying to Bind you up if that makes sense

So last scripture here for a moment. I'm going

to read Ephesians Ephesians chapter 6 verse 4

Ephesians 6:4

Let me pull that up. Ephesians 6 verse 4, it

Ephesians 6:4

says, fathers don't exasperate your children,

but raise them up with loving discipline and

counsel that brings the revelation of our Lord.

So here's another thing to think about when I

read that. You and I as fathers have a heavy

position as we represent God. to our kids. And

what I mean by that is later on when someone

like myself as a youth pastor begins to speak

to teenagers and reference the God as Father

as he is, he is Abba Father, as you reference

that, the first picture any child's going to

have is their earthly dad. So when you're talking

about a heavenly dad, That's what they're going

to connect dots to and I understand this he's

not God is not some distant far away up in the

heavens God. He's he's made his home in you He's

come to dwell among us That's a big deal. He's

come to be in our faces when needed He's come

to speak to the moments when we feel like we

fall in not to sit there and wallow in the pity

with us, but to challenge us to get back up as

men. That's a big deal. But this is why we have

to take our roles and responsibilities and quit

just acting like it's not a big deal if I just

walk away or whatever. We have a very important

role. When our kids later in life, and some minister

stands before and says that God is a father,

they're going to picture us first and how we

treated them is how they're going to think He

treats them. And if you had a distant father

or an absent father when you hear God as Father,

you may not have any type of desire to know that

God for the first little bit. That's just the

nature of it. But we get to call Him Abba Father.

To me that could translate to dad or daddy, depending

on if you have the right perspective of that.

That's what it could be translated to. He is

our Heavenly Father, Heavenly Dad. He's Abba

Father. Just let that sink in. Like you have

a big role to play here. So fathers don't provoke

your children to anger. Think about this is an

important truth here. God never corrects to condemn

only to call us higher So let me give you some

core differences as has been in fathers here.

So think about motivation For As far as motivation

goes punishment your motivators are going to

be anger and embarrassment Discipline the motivation

is going to be love and investment The right

for punishment the identity behind that is you

are bad For discipline it's going to be you're

better than this Again, we're reinforcing identity.

So when your child messes up, you know, this

is not who you are You're better than this moment.

You're better than this mistake. This mistake

does not get to define you Punishment for the

as far as priority goes it's compliance You want

your kids to comply that's more of punishment

Whereas discipline the priority is character

For punishment the result is distance When whereas

discipline the result is connection Because how

and think about why that is if you're disciplined

from a place of love focusing on reinforcing

their true identity, then you're taking the moment

to actually speak to that child, just as God

speaks to us. You're taking a moment to speak

to that child and connect with them and helping

them understand, number one, the mistake does

not get to identify you. We're not going to allow

guilt and shame and condemnation to come in here

and begin to speak to you and identify you. That's

not what we're going to do. We're going to savor

this moment and I'm going to call you up higher.

It's the same way Papa does for us Calls us higher.

He does not sit and make you feel horrible in

the moment. He calls you higher For punishment

who benefits parents emotions for discipline

who benefits is the child's future so punishment

produces Fear. Discipline produces sons. That's

a big deal. So how does this impact our kids?

So kids will either fear our presence or they

will feel safe in our presence. They will either

grow up hiding mistakes Or they will grow up

learning from them and as a dad, I want my kids

to come to me when they make mistakes My previous

character as a dad, I think they would hide them.

In fact, I've seen them hide them But I'm hoping

moving forward I can begin to teach my kids that

number one Holy Spirit is transforming my life

Okay, Holy Spirit's transforming me so you can

actually bring Your mistakes to me and we're

going to learn from them and grow from them and

understand. This is not who you are So again,

you're either going to grow up hiding mistakes

or learning from them And that our posture paints

a picture of god for them I just went over that

for you Our posture paints a picture of god for

them So ask yourself this question as a dad When

I correct my child Am I guiding their heart or

just venting my frustration? And that was challenging

here to read and get ready for this podcast because

here's the truth is many times I think I'm just

venting my frustration. And I want to, I personally

want to change that. Please understand that just

because I'm doing this podcast and doing this

type of stuff, I have not arrived yet. I am just

as much trying to grow and learn from this as

anything else. So I have not arrived by no means.

I am growing just as much as you are in this.

Anyhow, so let's do this. Let's do three keys

to godly discipline in the home. Number one is

this connection before correction. Again, this

stuff is helping me just it's helping you I'm

thrilled but it's also helping me so I'm just

willing to put myself out there and help other

men Walk through some of this I guess so connection

before correction stay calm get on their level

Let them know, you know, I love you I'm here

with not just for you, but I'm here with you

to walk you To walk with you in this moment.

That's a big deal Number two is identity based

language. So things like this is not who you

are So for example, if you if you catch your

kid in a lie Make sure you wouldn't help them

understand. This is not who you are. We are truth

-tellers in this house Affirm who God made them

to be And number three is this clear consequences

with clear restoration Let the correction that

you have teach and not crush Always include a

path to reconnect hug prayer encouragement something

of that nature Discipline ends with closeness

when punishment ends with silence So how God

treats you shapes how you father. If you think

God is disappointed in you, you're going to parent

out of disappointment. If you know God delights

in you, you're going to parent from delight.

The truth for us as men is that we will father

from the identity that we believe we have. I

want you to think about that. Go back to the

story I told you earlier when we opened up this

podcast. That's that's that's a that's just my

story But I think that speaks to that So today

Choose to see discipline as love in motion Let

your kids feel Papa's heart through your correction

It's going to happen and maybe you don't have

kids. Maybe you have nephews or nieces or Odds

are there's some child in your life. And if it's

not for a child in your life, maybe it's just

for you to understand how Papa actually treats

you. He's not some distant, far away God waiting

to beat you with a stick every time you mess

up. That's not his personality. But let your

kids feel the Father's heart through your correction,

okay? That's the key here. You represent, we

represent, I represent the father to my children.

So let them see his heart through, and you know,

not just the correction, but in everything that

we do. Have a new declaration that I discipline

to build, not punish to control. Just remember.

start closing this out men become who they believe

the father says they are and kids become who

we tell them they are i'm going to say that again

men become who they believe the father says that

they are and kids will become who we tell them

that they are so i want you to reflect this coming

up week is my parenting revealing god's heart

or is it revealing my frustration And really

just let that sink in. Think about what we've

talked about. Am I punishing my child or am I

disciplining my child? Let me give you just a

creed that you can pause this, go back to the

list here, write this down, but speak this over

your life. See, I am a son of the father. I lead

with love, not anger. I correct to build, not

punish to control. My words call out destiny.

My presence brings safety. Grace shapes me and

through me shapes my children. I want you to

declare that over your life. At least commit

to declare that for the next week. And let it

sink inside of you. Because I hope this helped.

Let me say just a quick prayer and then I'm gonna

jump off here and I pray this is blessed someone

out there The father I just thank you That you

don't treat us as a failure to punish But as

a son to strengthen Father shape our hearts to

reflect yours help us as men to correct with

purpose to speak life into our children and lead

from love rather than frustration. Train us to

see discipline as a gift in our life and in our

home. Father, I declare that we are sons and

not slaves. We are fathers and not tyrants. Holy

Spirit, guide our tones, guide our words and

our reactions. Build your character in us as

we build our children's future. In Jesus' name.

Amen. Guys, be blessed, have a great week, and

I will see you next time.