Rethinking the Two Witnesses and the Trumpets

Welcome to the Kingdom Family Podcast, where

we rediscover our identity as sons and daughters

of Yahweh and learn to live the life of the Kingdom.

Let's jump in to today's episode. All right,

guys, we are back rethinking in times. What we're

talking about this week was actually not on my

radar for this series. And Ray, who we do Bible

study with, was asking questions regarding this.

And I'm like, you know, that's not in my series,

but maybe we should have had that in. So I did.

So this week we're gonna talk about the two witnesses

and the trumpets. Probably a big part. I don't

know why I didn't think about these throughout

the series, but I didn't. And I told you before.

There's a lot of information that you can dive

into when it comes to rethinking the end times

and looking at the symbolism and the imagery

and all that kind of stuff. You can go down a

lot of rabbit holes. You can study a lot of different

things. And so I just missed this option, but

we've added it in. So we're going to do this

one. And I think we have one more for the podcast.

For next week and then we're gonna take a couple

months off. We're gonna take July and August

off That will allow me to get pre -recorded and

record ahead Because my girls will be playing

the soccer starting at the end of July so I won't

have to stress about making sure there's something

out I've already have it pre -recorded and ready

to roll for you and hopefully this would be the

last time that we need to take a break and we

can just keep rolling from here on out, but two

months is not very long you can go back and it

would take you probably longer to go back and

listen to this series as far as a two month time

goes but there's this series you have to listen

to also going back and listening to the Christ

in all the revelation of Christ in all that's

another big one to just go back in and let it

get back into your mind let it sit in your spirit

wrestle with it wrestle through it but anyhow

we're going to jump into the two witnesses starting

off with, and I want you to consider why we take

a book full of imagery and symbolism and attempt

to read it literally. I can remember as far as

the two witnesses go of watching the Left Behind

series and seeing on the news in the movie the

two witnesses at the wall. And so it was translated

very literally. and we used one of our teenagers

in our Bible study, there's a couple of them

that play football, and there's a football play,

and I'm sure every football team has a play that's

central to them, that when they call this play,

they know what they're talking about, but the

other teams do not. And it shows how John is

writing in a way to communicate to believers

secretly. So if they were stopped by Roman officials

or Roman government, they would look at the stuff

and not really understand what they're talking

about and let it continue to pass on to the believers.

So it's important anytime you read scripture

to look at how they would have interpreted what

the writer was saying to get a deeper meaning.

And when the early church early being around

the time of Jesus, would have heard these phrases,

they would have understood these symbols differently

than we do in our world and our culture today.

So John of Revelation was speaking in a language

that Israel already knew. So when first century

believers heard things like trumpets, lampstands,

olive trees, fire, plagues, earthquakes, beasts,

all these different things, they were not inventing

brand new language, they were hearing echoes

of Moses Elijah Sinai Exodus Jeremiah Ezekiel

Daniel Zechariah all these different things that's

what they were hearing because remember at the

time of this they don't have a new testament

they are living and writing the new testament

that we have today so the only thing they have

are the old testament scrolls to refer to so

when John is writing he's writing in language

they would have understood by using those old

testament scrolls So remember there's a lot of

letters, a lot of different things of that nature

that we have in the New Testament that they're

writing to communicate to a specific group of

people for a specific reason and not necessarily

for us 2 ,000 years later as the future predicament.

That's not what's happening. That's important

for us to grab hold of. So Revelation's not disconnected

from the Old Testament, no, it's saturated with

it. And we're going to see that as we talk about

the trumpet and the two witnesses. So I want

to look at Numbers 10 first. Kind of helps give

an understanding of biblical trumpets. I'm not

going to read the entire thing. I want to kind

of break it down for us. You can go read Numbers

10 on your own. But I'm just going to do a summary

of Numbers 10, if you will. First, it's important

for us to understand that Numbers 10 serves as

a major transition point in Israel's story. Up

until this point, Israel has been camped at Mount

Sinai. They have received the law. They're organizing

the tribes and preparing for the journey ahead.

They're finally beginning to move into and toward

the promised land. So in verses 1 through 10,

God instructs Moses to make two silver trumpets.

These trumpets had several different purposes.

Gather the congregation, summon leaders, signal

when the camp should break and move, sound alarms

in times of war, accompany festivals and sacrifices.

So these trumpets was God's communication system

for the nation. Symbolically, they represented

divine announcements, warnings, gatherings, and

God's guidance, which is why the imagery appears

later throughout the prophets and throughout

Revelation. Then in verses 11 through 28, after

nearly a year at Sinai, the cloud lifts from

the tabernacle, the people begin their journey,

the tribes move in a carefully ordered procession.

and it was Judah leads followed by Issachar and

Zebulon, then the tabernacle pieces, then Ruben's

camp, then sacred furnishings, then Ephraim's

camp, and then finally Dan's camp as the rear

guard. This emphasizes that Israel's journey

was not chaotic. God's presence was leading them.

God has order to certain things that he does.

And then we look at verses 29 through 32. This

is where Moses asked Chobab, his relative by

marriage, to travel with Israel. And he says

this, he says, come with us and we will do good

to you for the Lord has promised good things

to Israel. Now Chobab, initially he declines,

but Moses encourages him because he knows the

wilderness terrain, which is an interesting picture

of partnership between divine guidance and human

wisdom. God was leading through the cloud yet

Moses still valued practical help. And then we

have in verses 33 through 36 as Israel was traveling

the ark goes ahead of them and the cloud remains

over them and Moses begins to declare rise up

Lord let your enemies be scattered and when they

stop return Lord to the countless thousands of

Israel. This reveals the whole heart of the journey

that Israel wasn't merely moving geographically

they were learning to move with the presence

of God. So the thing I want you to understand

from this is the purpose of the trumpet. The

trumpets were not instruments of doom. They were

not, when you hear this sound, it's an instrument

of doom for the world. They were instruments

of communication, gathering, warning, and movement.

This background is important for us to understand

when later biblical writers such as John is using

trumpet imagery. Not actually talking about real

life trumpets, but using the trumpet as symbolism

and imagery when communicating to To the church

that he's talking to so I want you to ask a legitimate

question here And I'll give you a hint. It's

a trick question. So just think about it Why

would a first century audience hear trumpet and

immediately think secret evacuation of believers?

Think about that. The truth is they would not

They knew what trumpets meant. They knew what

John was trying to write to them. This is the

most obvious example that we see of this is the

seven trumpets in the book of Revelation in chapters,

I believe it's eight through 11. there are seven

angels that sound seven trumpets and each trumpet

introduces judgments warnings and symbolic events

but I want you to notice something when you're

looking at the trumpet sound nowhere during the

first second third any of the trumpets does it

talk about a rapture of believers in fact in

fact if you look at the seventh trumpet it announces

in revelation 1115 the kingdom of this world

has become the kingdom of our lord and of his

christ that's a kingship proclamation okay think

about this nowhere in those seven trumpets is

to talk about us getting out of here in fact

the last one is talking about the kingdoms of

this world becoming the kingdom the kingdom of

our god and of his christ well then you have

mount sanna who also has trumpet language. In

Exodus 19, 16, it says there's a very loud trumpet

blast that caused everyone in the camp to tremble.

In verse 19, the sound of the trumpet grows louder

and louder. What's fascinating is what doesn't

happen. Nobody's raptured. Nobody leaves the

earth. Nobody disappears. Instead, what happens?

God manifests his presence. God gathers his people.

God establishes covenant. and God speaks. So

what does the trumpet announce here but divine

visitation? Trumpets in scripture often announce

that history is shifting. Listen, I'm not here

to give you any kind of absolute certainty. This

is not what this whole thing's about, and I've

mentioned this several times throughout this

series. This series is not meant to settle every

end times question, but it does challenge the

assumption. that trumpet equals rapture. The

biblical story gives us a much richer set of

meanings long before the modern rapture interpretations

entered the picture. Again, the goal of this

is not to have you think like I do. No, the goal

is to give you permission to rethink and come

to your own conclusions. Wherever that lands

you, that is totally fine. But it's just giving

you my hope is to give a generation and a people

the freedom to use your own brain Allow the Holy

Spirit to be what she is the greatest teacher

that you will ever ever have and you begin to

form your own opinions and your own conclusions

about things. It does not mean that they won't

change. Listen my friend, I am sure my view of

the end times quote unquote will change many

times over. The more I learn about his goodness

and the more I understand his kingdom. And again,

I forget who said this, but there was a gentleman

I heard say this, the more answers we get, the

more questions I have. And that is so true. The

more we discover in the kingdom, the more questions

that spark. And I think that's the way it's supposed

to be, because it keeps us engaged, it keeps

us curious, it keeps us full of wonder, looking

into this God who is so far, yes, he's intimate

with us, but at the same time, we can't understand

him at all. That's why no matter where you are

in your journey the scripture still stands as

far as His thoughts are higher than your thoughts

and his ways are higher than your ways We got

to think about some of this. So I'm hoping just

to give you the freedom to come to it to a more

hopeful hopeful Thought process maybe that's

what I'm gonna say not look around to the world

and go oh it's getting dark so it's about time

to get it no if it's dark around you that means

the light within you is not turned on listen

darkness never gets a chance to win the moment

you flip a light on in a dark room darkness does

not argue there is no spiritual war darkness

simply makes its exit why because light overcomes

darkness 100 % of the time So I want you to look

at the book of Joshua now. In the book of Joshua

chapter six, this is probably a well -known story.

We have the priests who blow trumpets around

Jericho for seven days. On the seventh day, the

trumpet sounds. The people shout and the walls

do what? They fall. Again, notice what the trumpets

are doing. They're not removing God's people.

They're announcing God's action. They're signaling.

the downfall of an opposing power. They accompany

the collapse of an existing system. Jericho was

more than a city. It was a fortified stronghold

standing in the way of Israel's inheritance.

Trumpets announced the end of one order and the

emergence of another. And that's important for

us to understand. grab hold of, especially concerning

the end times and what we've discussed happened

in the years 67 to 70 AD. What happened? There

was an end of one order and the emergence of

another. And there's plenty more that you can

study these ideas on your own in the Old Testament

as far as what trumpets represent and all that

kind of thing. But the thing I want you to understand

is that many scholars agree that Revelation's

trumpet judgment symbolizes as covenantal and

political imagery rather than merely predictions

of future natural disasters. And we had the parallels,

hellfire, waters turned bitter, darkness, plagues,

destruction, imagery, all that's labeled. But

Revelation is intentionally echoing Exodus imagery.

Why? Because revelations presents liberation

it presents judgment covenant transition going

from the old covenant to the new custom covenant

the end of the sacrificial system a people being

delivered from oppression now there's also uh

reference to if you look at the judgment the

trumpet judgments John repeatedly says things

like a third of the earth was burned a third

of the sea became blood a third of the ships

were destroyed third of the waters became bitter

a third of the Sun moon and stars were darken

but notice something it never says all of it

It was always a third. If John wanted to communicate

total destruction, he could have said things

like the whole earth, the entire sea, and all

the ships, but he does not. And there's a reason

for this. Many scholars see the third as symbolic

of limited judgment. In other words, God is warning,

not annihilating. I want you to think of it like

a parent trying to get a teenager's attention.

They don't immediately throw away everything

they own. No, the parents start with consequence

designed to wake them up. This can be seen going

all the way back to Genesis when God tells Adam,

if you eat of this fruit, you will die. He's

not throwing out. He's not annihilating them.

He's not telling them they're going to physically

die. But there is a consequence that if you eat

of this fruit, you will face a death of some

sort. That's not God being vengeful or wrathful.

He's just trying to explain to Adam, listen,

if you do this, there is a consequence on the

other side of your decision. The same thing is

true. I have a, let's see, I guess he's about

18 months now, who. He is the reason that baby

proof items are made. Now, my two daughters,

we didn't have to worry about all the little

plugs and the outlets and all that. We didn't

have to do that. With him, he is into everything.

And I'm telling you, he's the reason why baby

proof stuff is made. But he would be one as a

dad if I saw him take a key or a fork and go

to an outlet. Hey, don't do that. You will get

electrocuted. I'm not telling him of something

that I'm going to do to him. I'm telling him

if you do this action, there is a consequence

on the other side. It's a warning. And then what

do I do as dad? I remove him from that environment

the best way that I can redirect him, whatever.

But the parents start with consequences designed

to wake them up. The purpose is what? The purpose

is restoration, not and never destruction. That's

how we view, that's how many view the trumpet

judgments. Many scholars or some scholars connect

trumpet imagery to Rome's invasion. We've already

discussed this. Jerusalem's fall in 70 AD, covenant

collapse and the destruction of the temple. Whether

one fully agrees or not, the imagery clearly

connects to Old Testament covenant warning patterns.

So let me see where we're at now. So then we

talk about the witnesses, and witnesses is not

the first time we've had witnesses. If you go

back to the Old Testament, we have Noah warning

people, Jeremiah warning people, Moses warned

Pharaoh, Jesus warned Jerusalem, the prophets

warned Israel. God does not delight in destruction.

He always sends witnesses first. Now we look

at Revelation chapter 11, and this is one for

Revelation 11 · chapter mention

you to go back and read at your convenience too.

I'm going to read some of these verses to you.

But one of the biggest mistakes people have with

Revelation 11 is reading it like a newspaper

article instead of apocalyptic vision filled

with, again, filled with Old Testament imagery.

So let's walk through each symbol. I'm gonna

read verse four out of Revelation 11 first. It

says these two witnesses are the two olive trees

and the two lampstands that stand before the

Lord God of the whole earth. So John doesn't

invent this imagery. He pulls it directly from

the vision of the book of Zechariah chapter four.

Zechariah sees a lampstand, two olive trees and

oil flowing from the trees into the lampstand.

And this is where the angel explains, not by

might nor by power, but by my spirit. So the

olive trees are connected to God's anointed people

through whom his spirit flows. When John calls

the witnesses to olive trees, he is immediately

pointing readers back to Zechariah. So the emphasis

is not supernatural celebrities, but it's spirit

-empowered testimony. And then if you look at

the lampstand, this one is actually interpreted

for us earlier in Revelation 1 when Jesus explains

the seven lampstands are the churches. So the

symbol is already defined in Revelation 1. So

when Revelation 11 calls the witnesses lampstands,

first century leaders would immediately think

the people of God. not two random future individuals.

No, the church, the church's role is to bear

light in darkness. That is what we are. That's

what you are. You are light in the darkness.

So the olive trees is spirit supplied and lampstands

are light bearing witnesses. Together they paint

a picture of God's people empowered by his spirit.

And then verse three, we'll look at that. It

says, and I will authorize my two witnesses to

prophesy wearing sackcloth for 1 ,260 days. Now,

sackcloth throughout scripture symbolizes mourning,

repentance, and prophetic warning. We have examples

of this. Elijah, Jeremiah, Jonah's Nineveh, various

different prophets. The witnesses are not dressed

like conquering kings. They look like prophets

calling people to repentance, calling people

to do what? Change your mind. Come back to your

true self. This fits Revelation's theme that

the church conquers through faithful witness,

not never political power. Man, this stuff is

good if we grab hold of it. Then we got verse

5 it says if anyone attempts to harm them fire

will flow out of their mouth and consume their

foes All who seek to harm them will die in this

way and this sounds terrifying if you think about

it literally But I want you to remember something

that God told Jeremiah. He said I will make my

words in your mouth a fire in fact, Jeremiah

I Would have to look it up. Let me look it up

real quick. Just because I think it's important

to uh to look at it's Jeremiah chapter 20 verse

Jeremiah 20:9

9 and let's pull that up So when I tell myself

I'm not going to speak his message ever again

or prophesy anymore in his name then all at once

you are within me like a burning consuming fire

deep in my bones I try my best to hold your word

inside but I can't hold it back any longer for

I heard them whispering behind my back terror

everywhere that's all he prophesies all my close

friends watch for me to fall let let's turn him

into the authorities they will say perhaps we

set a trap for him finally we will prevail over

him and take our revenge on him but i want you

to go back where it says you are within me like

a burning consuming fire deep in my uh Deep in

my bones. I tried my best to hold your word inside,

but I cannot hold it back any longer Why because

it's because your words in my mouth are like

a fire So the fire represents prophetic speech

and divine judgment through truth these witnesses

are not breathing literal flames their testimony

burns away lies and exposes corruption you shall

overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word

of your testimony. How do you deal with with

the lies you have your testimony that burns away

lies and exposes corruption? This is very common

prophetic language. Then if you also look at

the witnesses and what they could resemble, some

would argue, and I would argue this point, that

they could represent Moses and Elijah. Why? Because

Moses is turning water into blood, striking with

the plagues. Elijah is shutting the heavens,

calling down fire. What is special about them?

What do they represent? Moses and Elijah represent

the law and the prophets. In Jewish thought,

they often symbolize the entire witness of God.

So I want you to think about the transfiguration.

Where Jesus appears with Moses and Elijah, John

is drawing out of that symbolic reservoir. That's

important for us to understand. We also have

mentioned talking about the great city The great

city where their Lord was crucified. It's a huge

clue. Where was Jesus crucified? Yet John also

calls this place Sodom and Egypt not because

it literally became these places But because

it had became like them spiritually. So what

is John using? John is using prophetic language

Isaiah does the same thing when he calls Jerusalem

Sodom. Many scholars therefore see Revelation

11 as tied to the first century conflict surrounding

Jerusalem and its coming judgment. And then we

have the three and a half days that's mentioned.

The witnesses are killed, raised, exalted. And

what does this mirror? It mirrors Jesus' death,

his vindication, and his exaltation. So notice

Revelation's pattern. The beast appears to win,

God vindicates his people, the church follows

the pattern of Christ, and death is not the end

of the witness. Why are there two witnesses?

Under Jewish law, every matter shall be established

by two or three witnesses. We can see that in

the book of Deuteronomy 19 .15. Two is a biblical

number of valid testimony. John is emphasizing

credible witness, not necessarily the exact number

of individuals. So let's look at the symbolic

picture here. Olive trees would represent Spirit

-empowered people. Lampstands, God's light -bearing

community. You and I. Sat cloth, prophetic repentance

message. Change your mind, come back to your

senses. Fire, prophetic. powerful prophetic testimony.

Moses and Elijah the law and the prophets fulfilled

inside of Christ. The great city apostate Jerusalem

worldly systems opposing God. Death and resurrection

the pattern of Christ reproduced in his people.

Two witnesses is the faithful covenant testimony.

So from this perspective, Revelation 11 is less

about two future miracle -working prophets appearing

on Fox News or CNN, and more about the faithful

witness of God's people confronting oppressive

powers, suffering for truth, and ultimately being

vindicated by God. Oh, goodness. This stuff gets

so good. When you really think it it really gives

you I hope it gives you a lot more hope of what

we're looking forward to Trying to see if there's

anything else in my notes So again, this is what

we have the church often approaches us how I

was If you'd have asked me several years ago

what I thought it was about The church often

approaches Revelation asking who's the Antichrist,

when is the tribulation, what does this symbol

predict, or you know what is this, who's the

Antichrist, the mark of the beast, all that kind

of fun stuff. But Revelation repeatedly emphasizes

endurance, faithfulness, witness, and allegiance

to Christ. You have to remember, friend, Revelation

was written to persecuted believers, suffering

churches, and people under pressure. It's not

written to terrify future generations. It was

written to say that Jesus is victorious, Babylon

falls, empires collapse, but Christ reigns. And

in closing, the trumpets announce transition.

The witnesses announce truth, and together they

simply remind us God warns before judgment. Christ

reigns through every shaking, and faithful witness

matters more than fear." Man, this is good news.

I hope this is helping you. I hope, and just

like I said, I didn't have these two on my radar

until Ray mentioned it, and we got into discussion

about, like, maybe I should put this in here.

This would be a good conversation to have. It

sparks some interest. Next week, we're gonna

talk about, I think, Occupy Until We Comes. That's

what we're called to do, is to occupy. That's

what you and I are called to do. So, my friend,

until next week, be blessed, wrestle with some

of this stuff. Go back and do your own studying,

go back and do your own reading, your own research.

But I'm hoping it's given you a better viewpoint

for the future, more hope, all this, that, and

the other. But be blessed until next week, my

friend. Thanks for spending some time with me

today on the Kingdom Family Podcast. If this

episode spoke to you, take a moment to share

it and help someone else rediscover their identity

as a son or daughter of Yahweh. And don't forget,

follow the podcast so you can stay connected

with everything happening through Kingdom Family

Ministries. Until next time, live loved, live

free, and live from the life, the Kingdom.