Episode 29 - Sports Photography and 'A Picture of England', Gareth Copley-Jones

Hello everyone, and thank you for joining us again on the Sunday service with Church and Vicars.

Well, I am back from Mauritius, and I must say I had a wonderful time.

Sadly, the weather has not come back with me.

And the old man is in Nottingham for Surrey against surprisingly Nottinghamshire.

Yes, I am the Texas, and where has the hot weather gone?

Nottingham is lovely, and I have donned my green long johns.

I've found my little job, and I'm fully getting into the role of Robin Hood.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Sunday service for Church and Victor.

It's been a busy week, young Hector.

Monday I witnessed Surrey beating Sussex.

Tuesday was all about paperwork, as was Wednesday.

I then jumped on the train on Thursday and made my way to Nottingham, where you find me today.

And may I just say, Kevin Costner was the best depiction of Robin Hood with an American accent and a top class mullet.

So what's on the show this week, young Hector?

Well, Church's sermon discusses why the Vicar of Sibley should be opening the batting for England and talked about the parish's first game of the season against Little Winging.

We have the latest edition of our hard-hitting feature, What Cricket Sound is this?

And our guest today is one of, if not the best cricket photographers in the world who has just published his book, A Picture of England.

And thanks to our friends at Newbury Cricket, we have our competition where you can win one of their magnificent SPS cricket bats.

And once again, I'll say it, it's a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of willow.

And don't forget you can get in touch with us, just email sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com or tweet at Sundayservice22.

Lots to get through, so let's get cracking with the Sunday service.

Hi, Matt Fisher, Surrey and England.

You're listening to the Sunday service with church and vicars.

As always, it's been an extremely busy week in the parish.

On Monday, I returned from the Oval Shire, having seen Surryshire pick up a victory against Sussexhire in what was a splendid game.

Tuesday morning I picked up young Mr.

Vickers from his cricketing and choral exchange trip to Mauritius.

On the way there, the Parish Honda Civic circa 2013 with its inbuilt compact disc player passed 100,000 miles on the clock and bats were raised.

Young Mr.

Vickers looked very well at the airport and was full of stories and duty free.

But he had to put his bags down straight away at Boycott Vicarage because preparations were being made for Wednesday's parish fate.

It's always a big day in the parish calendar, and maypolls were erected, bells were shined, and sticks whittled for the Morris dancers, and excitement was palpable when we retired to the Badgers Googly for a well-earned pint at the local brew.

Mrs.

Watts was taking advantage of Trevor the Landlord's Scampy Night, and she told me the grand total of£7 had been raised in last week's cake sale, with proceeds of course going towards the Women's Institute hot tub for the village hall.

I told her this sounded a disappointing total, but she then informed me that certain members of the WI had indulged on tonics and gin during the day, and at last been seen with the£393 takings in a taxi shouting, We're going to Vegas, baby! And all that was left was the£7.

Wednesday morning dawned bright and sunny, and the parish fate was a marvellous day.

The Morris dancers were in exceptional form, starting traditionally but then breaking into their 1980s interpretations of John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever.

I was then locked in the village stocks, as tradition dictates, and people paid to throw wet sponges at me.

I must say a number of parishioners seemed extremely keen, and I never knew we had so many bullet arms in the parish.

And then it was time to dance around the May pole.

All started very serenely, but I was unaware that Trevor of the Badgers Googly had been selling his special home brew, and it soon descended into chaos when members of the parish 11 decided to tie young Mr Vickers and myself to the Maypole.

We were eventually untied at eight in the evening and strolled to the Badgers Googly to be greeted by a rather cheapish Mr Bartholomew, Mrs.

Jackson, and Mrs.

Dixon of the Women's Institute of Vegas gang.

They informed me they had actually got as far as the end of the parish lane with the£393 left from the cake sale when they realised they'd left many of their various medicines they required at home.

After singing My Way in a Hedgehog, they slowly made their way back to the parish under cover of darkness and had been hiding for the last couple of days.

Anyway, the good news is they only spent£7 on a taxi to the end of the parish lane, which means we actually have£393 to go towards the hot tub.

Thursday was spent making parish visits and doing my statistics for an afternoon train to Nottinghamshire, because Friday I attended the opening day of Nottinghamshire against Surreyshire in the latest round of the county championship.

Being at Trent Bridge meant I missed the Parish 11's opening game against Little Winging yesterday.

But young Mr.

Vickers was there and kept me up to date with proceedings.

Sadly, this didn't take very long because we were put into bat on a cloudy afternoon on a little whinging pitch Mr.

Vickers described as rather green.

After two overs, we were four for seven, with our four courtesy of our number five Archie Bearstead, being hit on the pads as he dived for square leg against a viciously quick opening bowler, being hit on the boot, and the ball flying to the fine leg boundary.

I'm sad to report we were eventually all out for 10 in 12 overs, thanks in no small part to sexy Rex our wicket keepers Marathon not out from 32 balls.

Little Winging knocked the 11 runs needed off in the first over, but young Mr.

Vickers informs me the boys are still in good heart, and we will be looking for a marked improvement this Saturday with our first home game against Farting Willows, one of our many local rivals.

I'm speaking to you this morning from Trentbridge, and young Mr.

Vickers is back in the parish leading the service.

We've introduced the handing out of copies of the good book to each parishioner before the start of the service, allowing them to peruse stats as the choir perform their interpretation of Madonna's Vogue, which I'm sure will be a roaring success.

Now, much of the chatter around our beautiful game at the moment is who will be part of the England at eleven for the opening test against New Zealand.

Forgive me if I use this sermon to give you my thoughts on one spot, which is the opener.

I've always felt it's very important to have an opener who understands what the role entails, and much like Sexy Rex in the game against Little Winging, knows there will be times when you need to get your head down, as that is the only way forward.

For me, there is only one man for the job, and that is the Vicar of Sibley.

He already has two big hundreds under his belt this season, and my word, he is a reassuring sight.

Plus, he has the strongest abdominal guard in world cricket.

That man takes steering deliveries to his undercarriage like nobody I've ever seen, and with a quick rearrangement of the furniture, he's back to the job.

Dominic has to open for England this summer.

There I've said it, and I feel much better for it.

As a wise man once told me, the very definition of reassurance is Dominic Sibley, which is what we all need this summer.

So, my cricketing friends, that was the week in the parish.

Another busy one, and I'm sure this week will be just the same.

I hope your cricketing weeks are filled with solid defence and attacking flair.

But the most important thing, bat well everyone.

Bat very, very well.

And now it's time for our hard-hitting and groundbreaking feature.

What cricket sound is this?

In a moment, you will hear a sound, and all you have to do is tell us what cricket sound is this.

Now, last week you heard this sound, and the question as always is what cricket sound is this?

Well, that was church walking up the Harleford Road and going into the Kia Oval.

So of course it was Hector.

Of course, that's obvious.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to spot that one.

But now it is time for this week's uh sound, and the question is what cricket sound is this?

Well, if you think you know, email sundayservice.podayahoo.com or tweet at Sundayservice22.

This is Cameron Steele, and you are listening to the Sunday service with church and vicars.

And now it's time for our cricketing guest.

Gareth Copley Jones is one of, if not the great cricket photographers in the world.

Having started out as a sports photographer for 10 years at the Press Association, he moved to Getty Images in 2011, where he has since been a staff photographer.

He has recently released his new book entitled A Picture of England, 20 years photographing the England men's cricket team home and away, which has since flown off the shelf.

The book, with words by the Press Association's Rory Dollard, spans over 180 test matches and 38 overseas tours, capturing the highs and lows of England men's cricket over the past 20 years.

Collating some of the most iconic moments in English cricket, the book features recollections from over 20 of England's greats, including Sir Jimmy Anderson, Ben Stokes, Freddie Flintoff, and Owen Morgan, with Joe Root also writing the foreword.

Gareth joins the show this week to talk all about his new book, his one-of-a-kind career in sports photography, and some of his best moments over the past 20 years.

And I started by asking him how he was and how his start to the season had been.

I love this time of season.

I I do, I really, I I love the like there's no international zone.

It's the county cricket, and you you know, you find yourself at these nice, chilled-out cricket grounds, and you're sitting at the boundary edge, and you yeah, you can have a chat to, you know, like somebody that you remember from Tours Gone By that you haven't seen for a couple of years, and it's like, Did you winter well?

Yeah, no, I love it.

I love it before all the um yeah, before it all gets a bit busy in June.

Now, I was lucky enough to see you last week at the Sorry Sussex game when you were uh having a chat with Mr.

Daniel Norcross about your magnificent book.

But but what I want to do is hit reverse first up, if that's alright, and and sort of the start of your career.

Because people see you now and and they see the book, and you are uh one of if not the greatest cricket photographer there is.

But but of course, you sort of started football, rugby league, bitter cricket, didn't you?

So, how did that all come about?

Just explain to us how you first started in in sort of the sporting industry.

So I'm I'm now a staff photographer at Gay Images, but way, way, way back when when I first started, I worked for a really small agency called Valley Picture Agency, and we were the photographers for Leeds United and the Rugby League.

And my job, first job was it was back when people shot film.

It's already trendy to shoot film these days, you know, but uh it was back when we had to shoot film.

So my job was to run around after 20 minutes and collect everybody's films and develop them, and um, and that's what I had to do.

I had to have these films developed and dry for half time, sent it back to the newspapers.

And as things went on, I got they let me take pictures whilst I was waiting to collect the films, and I got a couple of good pictures and progressed.

Um, and then I became a junior photographer, um, still just doing football rugby.

I'll be honest, I've got no interest in cricket at this point, never really had done, hated it at school.

I didn't I didn't like that hardball, I didn't like the nets, like an old you know, sports hall with the nets that they're pulling and like the noise, and then you trap aren't you so I didn't like all that.

Um but yeah, so I I did five, six, seven years as just doing football and cricket, and maybe the odd test matchup north.

Um and then uh somebody it was the 2005 Ashes, it was amazing.

Even people that weren't interested in cricket got interested in cricket, and our regular photographer at uh at the press association that did all the cricket tours couldn't go.

So, with a week's notice, they uh asked if I could go to Pakistan and being young, free, and single, no ties.

I um I went to Pakistan and it was an absolute culture shock.

It was like arriving in Indiana Jones, you know, landing at Islamabad airport at four in the morning and getting shoved in the back of a minibus and dust and camels and horses everywhere.

And yeah, and ever since then I've done cricket.

Um I've just got bitten by the book.

Am I right in saying though, you cleverly because you're a clever chap, um that you you said, yeah, I'll go, but there was an Ashley series coming up as well, wasn't there?

As long as I get to go to the away Ashley series.

Have I got that right?

Yeah, yeah.

Good good negotiations from you there, sir.

If you're gonna get someone out of a hole, you might as well make it work in your um so yeah, yeah, so basically, yeah, they they didn't have much choice about the um the Pakistan trip.

So I said, right, well, if I go to Pakistan, can I go to the Ashes in the following year?

And it wasn't anything to do with the cricket or anything like that, it was just the prospect of being 25 and spending three months in Australia in the winter, you know, in the English winter, escaping Ewood Park and oh god forsaken football games, doing caribou cup games.

So yeah, it's just escaped the rain and go to Australia for three months.

So fast forward 20, 20 odd years, and you've just released your new book, A Picture of England, 20 years photographing the England's men team, home and away.

It's a great book.

I've got it here.

I mean, it's got pretty much any iconic photo of cricket in it, has pretty much come from your lens, and you've got players reacting and and reflecting on their memories of of those events.

Fast forward to the start of that process, and you you've worked on it with the press associations, Rory Donnard.

What when did you decide to do it and how long has that process been?

Um, so I for the last 15 years I've worked for Getty Images, and I'm the official England photographer.

So I I basically followed England everywhere.

And I do a lot of stuff for charity.

I do these silly long runs where I run 100 miles in a day, and it's all to raise money for money or own disease.

And um this year I I said to my wife that I wouldn't do the silly long run, but I'd try and think of something else.

So I just floated the idea to a publisher and said, Would you be interested in doing a book on my 20 years following England?

Um, and it sort of just grew from there, really.

Um the opportunity was there, they wanted to do it.

Uh, I thought it'd be a great thing because what with digital photography now, phones tend to just hold pictures, no one ever gets printed off pictures, no one ever looks at a printed page, and I thought, wouldn't it be nice just to put all my memories and pictures all together in one book?

Uh and I approached Rory and said, I've got this idea, Rory, but it can it can't just be a photo book because that's nice, but we need something extra.

So, do you think we could get hold of the players in the pictures to talk about the pictures?

And Rory said, Yeah, yeah, we'll give it a go.

And I wrote this list of 25 players that I'd worked with, and I I had a few pictures in mind that I wanted some to talk about, and it was a who's who of English cricket, and uh, we got everyone, um, everyone that I approached to speak about the pictures, and so I thought, yes, it is a book on great photography, but I'm I sort of look at it as a a great book of memories, you know.

You can just open it up at different pages and uh takes you back to a test match or a one day, and uh you can just remember where you were or where you weren't why you missed it, um you know, it brings back your memories in the game.

So uh and it's just uh it's just a a wonderful piece of work, I'm really proud of it.

We'll look at some of the pictures in I, but but I think the fact that everybody said yes to you shows the relationship that you have with the players.

Now, what fascinates me is being in in in camp as the official England photographer with Getty Images.

Uh and I've had a little bit of that with Surrey, and you obviously get to know the players really, really well.

Just explain to people how that works, because that works because we're we're away from it, we're we're up in commentary boxes, uh, but you're there in the huddles, you you you you get to sort of hear cat presentations, you're in the dressing room afterwards.

So so you're in the the inner sanctum, really, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah, I am.

Yeah, I'm incredibly privileged.

Um I I try not to listen, especially when they're making team announcements the day before.

When I was thinking I shouldn't be here, I shouldn't hear this, but I want a picture of the team announcements.

So I do try not to listen, but I sort of get a feeling of what's gone on.

Um but yeah, it's uh I guess it's just a trust I've built up over the years.

Like when I first started doing it, that we didn't have pictures of the cat presentations in the hoodles, and I slowly pressed the point to various different coaches and media managers that these are really important pictures.

And they're probably the cat presentations.

I love doing them because they are the probably the players' most important picture because there's some players that'll only play one one or two test matches, one or two ODIs or T20s, but they've played for England, so it's that their biggest ever moment is receiving this cap.

And then you'll get guys that go on and play 100 test matches and beat the Aussies and all sorts of stuff.

But that one picture of them receiving the cap for the very first time is such a an important picture.

Um, and you've got to you've got to do it right, and um yeah, it's it's incredibly privileged, and you get to see some amazing, amazing like they're all filmed now and put on social media, but um some of them are really, really uh emotional.

Uh like Johnny Besto got his hundredth cap in Darama Shalla, and I think half of us were all in tears.

I think because he got his mum in the huddle as well, and then she started going, and then before you know it, I was going, and Johnny was going, and everybody was in tears.

But um, there's such important moments for everybody, and yeah, it's uh you know, they need photographing.

You know, people need to be able to look back on these pictures in 20 years' time and uh bring back those memories.

And and and how do you feel?

Because all of those photos, the players will have them, and they'll be up in their houses or they'll be in there.

I think a lot of these lads these days have their sort of dens, don't they, with a I don't know, a snooker table and all their shirts in in in whatever else.

But but to have your picture, and it's your picture, which they will have forever, and who knows, Gareth, they may pass it off.

But to have your picture hanging in their houses, that must be an incredible, incredible thing for you as well.

Yeah, it is it.

It's it's amazing.

You're you're just like it's every day we're just trying to take the best picture possible.

And to think that you of their biggest ever moment, you've taken the best picture or the picture that you know pits somebody or treasure.

It's a it's an amazing thing.

But you you're you know, it's a great I'm trying to do the best for you know countless clients that get your images have, you know, to try and keep all those people happy.

But you know, as I've done it more and more and more, I'm I want those pictures to be right for the people in the pictures.

I want to do them justice, um, and that's one of the biggest things.

I was gonna say actually, because you've obviously got this really close bond with all the players, and you've been there for all the highs, and that must be amazing getting to share that joy.

But when when it doesn't go quite so well and maybe a player's had a really bad day, it's quite hard to you know get ask for an interview with someone if they've had a bad day compared to a good day.

What's it like photographing when you're sort of up close?

Do you ever have to sort of take a step back and sort of watch out a bit when they've had a bad one?

Yeah, luckily we have longer lenses for those days.

Yeah, I think everybody understands there's there's ups and there's downs, and and that's I suppose that's the great thing about sport and and support in England as well, because yeah, we do have ups and downs, and and because we have those downs, it makes those ups feel a lot bigger.

Um and the book does touch on the downs, you know, but there's not loads, but it's um it's those things that make the ups a lot more um you know more you know more important.

And and the players understand that.

Um, like I have had incidents where I've photographed a player looking really fed up because that's the picture that you know people want, you know, people need to tell the tale of that day.

And the player might have told me to do one.

Um, but often the next day at Nets, they'll turn around and say, Oh, I'm sorry, Gareth, I didn't mean to snap, you know, but they're they're in the moment, aren't they?

You know, and ultimately my job is to try and capture capture them in the moment, whether that's in you know, in despair or whether that's in ecstasy.

Picture wise, in the book, how did you sort of go around picking the ones that you wanted to have in the book?

Was it you you said about the players?

Did they have a say?

Because I'm thinking of my favourite in the book, and I had a quick look at last week, is Jonathan Trott 2009 being run out of first innings, and it it sort of got everything that photo.

It's got the the stumps, it's got the trott diving, not quite getting there, the look of panic on his face.

It it is an incredible photo, it really is.

Uh, but but how did you go about picking the photos that were going to go in the book?

So Trotty, we have done a bit of a disservice to because there's 20 odd players talking about pictures, and often for those players, they're talking about their their biggest moments, their their fifers against Australia or their World Cup wins or uh their retirements and and things like that.

And so it's it's very easy to get a player to talk about their greatest ever moment.

I suppose the challenge for Rory is to just narrow it down into 300 concise words.

But yeah, so Trott was a bit of a different one because the picture of Trott getting run out um was on debut, and it's the picture I took, and it's done me so many favours over the years because it won a lot of photography competitions, and it won a really, really big award uh called the World Press Photo, and that's like the like a lot of people don't know what that is, but it's like the equivalent of a Pulitzer or an Oscar or something like that.

So it's it was a massive award, and it was all the pictures from around the world of sport, so it wasn't just cricket, it was all sports all around the world, and it was judged the best sports picture that year.

Um, and there was a bit of publicity, understandably, about it.

And Trott, you know, well, he wanted half the prize money at one point.

Um but we were we were away in Bangladesh when it got announced that I'd won this award, and I got an email off Abby, um Jonathan Trott's wife, saying, Can we have a could we get a copy of this picture?

Because you know, he's in an award-winning picture.

And I says, Well, he's getting out, you know.

So she um she says, No, I know, I know, but I'd really like a picture.

Um, so I rang the office up and said, Would you be able to, you know, post a picture to the Trotts house for this uh um for Abby?

And uh the office framed it all up.

And I did say to the officers, look, and that's great that you framed it all up, but can you put in a couple of his century as well, of a similar size that can go in that frame as well, should he decide you don't like it.

So Troll gets home from this tour of Bangladesh and presented in his kitchen uh there, straight in front of him as he walks in, is this giant picture of him getting run out.

Um and when it came to the time of um speaking to people, I spoke to Trotty and I said to him, Trotty, you're gonna have to speak about the run-out pitch.

I really want to speak about it.

Uh you know, it's it's it's a very important picture to me.

Would you be able to speak about it?

And he says, Yeah, no problem.

So I exchanged numbers, him and Rory.

Rory was gonna speak to him a few days later.

Rory rang him up and said, Um uh Trotty answered the phone.

He says, 'I've been thinking, there's two pictures in my house.

I'd really like to talk about the other one.' I says, the run-out is up on the wall, but I the other picture in my house is of me running out Simon Catic at the Adelaide Oval.

And you've got to bear in mind the one at the Oval, bizarrely, is him being run out by Simon Catch.

So it's the other way around.

So it's yeah, that famous run out at Adelaide Oval and the Ashes test when we were they were two for two, I think.

Um, and he spent about 10 minutes trying to explain to Rory that he wanted this picture uh and not the other picture on his wall.

Um, but we did eventually convince him to talk about the run-out picture, and um he he just loves both of them on his wall because he shows both sides of the game.

Um and in the book, he he says that day he did nothing wrong, he just happened to get run out, and um as you know, how many times does that happen in cricket or in life?

Days that you just do nothing wrong and it just goes wrong.

Uh can I just quickly ask with with that?

When when you saw that picture, did you think, yeah, yeah, that that that's the one when you saw saw the picture that you're taking of him being run out, did you think that is a hell of a photo?

I did, yeah.

Like he's brought legged since, but yeah, at the time I thought, wow, that's a good picture.

Because like we get to the cricket at like eight o'clock in the morning, we take positions, I think it might have been on the first day of the test match.

So you're taking a position before you know whether England are batting or bowling, and you know, in Ash's test, there's lots of photographers there, so you're all clambering for different positions.

Uh, and that picture happened at six o'clock, so it's all this, you know, sitting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.

And the great thing about um the oval and lots of other rounds, but the oval is particularly good that uh late in the evening you get this really good quality of light, this golden hour light, and and that's when the picture's taken in this golden light.

And technically it's a really it's probably perfect uh because he is everything's up in the air, he's up in the air, the bales are up in the air, the ball's up in the air, and you've got this great beautiful light coming into his face, so you can see all the expression on his face.

Um, so yeah, it's it it's it's it's a great pitch to have.

I'm really happy I had it.

Um, but yeah, it has yeah, but since winning the awards and things like that, it's done me so many favours over the years.

How do you stay focused then?

Because as you say, you get there at eight in the morning and then you could be um in position until seven in the evening.

What can you just talk us through what a typical day looks like?

You're in one place or are you always moving around?

Try to move around.

So, yeah, a typical day is we get there at eight.

Um, you know, um, there's usually two or three of us there from getting images.

So on the first day, we'll say you go the far end, I'll go the near end.

Um as a as a rough rule, and then we swap each day.

But within that, you're you when the match starts, um you're constantly thinking of scenarios.

Um, so say for instance when England are batting, you know that certain players are playing more straight shots and more square shots.

So you depending on the pictures of the players that you need, you might move slightly square or third man um to get those pictures.

And then, you know, equally when teams are bowling, you might go into certain positions.

Um Stuart Broad, when he's celebrated, would always run off to his left rather than the right.

So he's just like little things.

So you would you would always be thinking, oh, he's bowling, he's doing this, he's doing that.

We might need a picture of him.

Um, England aren't doing that well.

I better go and sit near the dressing rooms in case they're all coming off for a collapse.

You know, somebody's close to a century, I'll go by the dressing rooms.

But the lights got really nice, so I might move square and try and do pictures.

Um, and they're all sort of rough rules, like you do break them a little bit.

Um so sometimes you should definitely be somewhere and you think, no, I'll just I'll I'll just chance my arm and go somewhere else.

But yeah, your head's constantly worrying with different scenarios of what might be happening in the game.

Um, so you just because you're always trying to stay ahead of the game because it you can't react.

Once the picture's happened, it's happened.

So you've got to be in the right place to get the picture.

So you yeah, you're constantly thinking, oh, what shall I do?

What you know, where's the best place to be?

The other thing you've done is captured huge moments for the England team, and by that what I mean is the the team themselves.

Uh look, you've got the the pictures of them when lifting the urn, uh, you've got Joffre on his knees with Ben Stokes after they've won the World Cup.

And I was thinking about this last night.

You've got many years ahead of you, Mr.

Copley, taking lots of more amazing pictures, but but the mo the a moment that I'm pretty sure you want to be there for is when your great mate, Mr.

Joe Ru, becomes the leading test run scorer ever, which I'm sure will happen.

Are there are there?

Do you think of things like God?

I I that that I want to be there for for that moment.

Yeah, of course you do.

Yeah, like yeah, I like, but yeah, yeah, I'm sure like you can't pick up a newspaper these days without reading the different scenarios and how many test matches and what average Joe would need to you know to break the record.

So yeah, you are thinking of stuff like that, and I'm sure it will happen.

But equally, so say Stokes as heroics at Headingley.

I remember turning around to Stu back the the other photographer that does so many test matches with, and just said to Stu, says, I think we should retire now.

We you know, we'll never see this ever, ever again.

Yeah, um but some somehow England keep producing, and we do see this stuff ever you know over and over again.

Um but yeah, there's there is so many things I'd love to see.

I'd love to see six sixes in and over.

Nearly got there once.

Um I got five sixes in and over, and then there were four.

Uh I'd love to see a tie, you know.

So all these little things, um, I'd I'd love I'd love to see, and yeah, I'd love to see Joe break break the record as well.

So yeah, but yeah, there's there's so much stuff to to keep me going.

And and the way that the over the last 20 years the game's changed.

And I remember like when when I used to first photographed cricket, it was like the early 2000s when I used to do the odd game.

It was always like, How many left-handers have we got in the team?

You know, shall we sit that side of the wicket or that side?

I've got right-handers in the team.

Um, because the you know, you get blocked by slips and that.

And now people, you know, come to test matches that don't do it that often, and they'll say to me, How many left-handers in the team?

I want to know where to sit.

And I'm going, it doesn't matter to it.

It just does not matter.

These these guys have got a 360-degree arc, you know, they hit the ball everywhere.

Um the England team at the moment treat the the first hour of a test match like the power play of an ODI game.

So you would never go and sit square and do batting pitches from the first hour of a day's play.

But now that rule's broken.

So it's like, I might as well just go square from the start and just do crawly and duck it, hitting fours for the first hour.

So that's the sort of stuff that keeps you so excited and why you want it to do the game, you know, because it's constantly changing.

One of my favourite things about the book is, and you touched on it earlier, is just the human aspect of it, and it's not just what goes on in the cricket pitch, you know, on tours, you've got players in front of the Taj Mahal on the beach.

Um, you know, it's there's just that side of I think doing some like army base camps and stuff like that.

Was that quite important to you to have that human aspect to it?

And I guess looking back for you on those smaller memories off the cricket field, that must be quite nice to be able to have a permanent sort of reflection.

Yeah, it's um I just wanted you know, the the book's obviously a lot, a lot of pages, and I wanted to show all different aspects of touring life, and yeah, we go we get to go to the Taj Mahal, and you know, and it's often not an organised trip, you know, it's like someone's booked a minibus and we all jump in the minibus.

But you know, we're very, very lucky that we get to go to these amazing places, and it doesn't take much convincing to speak to a couple of players and say, Do you want your picture in front of the Taj Mahal?

So, and you know, you never might never get to see these places ever again.

You know, we've recently been to Darama Charlotte, and it's the most amazing, beautiful place, and and you yeah, you've just got to grab these things with both hands, and equally, uh, I've tried to include in the book and and a lot through my photography over the last few years was especially with people like Broad and Anderson, you know, get pictures of them together.

Yeah, because once it's gone, it's gone, you know.

So, yes, you we do need that picture of them together in the long room.

We do need them arm in arm at the oval at the last test, because the following day it's done.

You can't get these people together, you know.

So, yeah, there's a lovely picture of Joffre and uh Chris Jordan in the book together on the beach, you know, where they used to grow up.

And Chris Jordan speaks about the you know the picture and and how it all came about, and it's just yeah, you can't get those moments back.

So you I'm constantly now trying to you know press upon the players that you know these pictures are really important because it's a very short career and you want these great pictures to remember things.

Right then, sir.

Final question for you.

We always ask this question of anybody who who joins us.

So there is a young man or a young young lady listening to this at the moment who is thinking about going into sports photography and wants to get into sports photography.

What what sort of tips would you give them to get into into the industry?

The the tip I would do, even like I I don't know if I wanted to be a sports photographer straight away.

I sort of did all different types of photography, is just to do everything, you know.

Um I I I did work experience at a mini lab, you know, when I used to develop the films.

So is go into all different aspects of it because you might think you want to be a sports photographer, and you still end up might being a sports photographer, but see all different aspects of it.

Don't, you know, keep your horizons really broad.

So go to a studio photographer's, you know, go to all different types of photography, go to a newspaper, and and learn about all different aspects of photography.

And and equally, if you want to be a sports photographer, and maybe you want to be a cricket photographer like me, um, is do all different types of sport.

Like I'm really, really lucky as well as the cricket.

Before I did a lot of cricket, I've I've done things like Olympic Games and Rugby World Cups and stuff like that.

And I I look back on those moments fondly as well, you know, and I'm I'm really happy with the cricket, but you just do everything because I never went into this job wanting to be a cricket photographer, and I sort of just fell into it by accident and I absolutely love it to bits because of because of the people basically.

And you know, I've learned, you know, I've just loved the game, but I had no interest in cricket until I was 25, 26.

So just keep those horizons nice and broad.

Well, look, we can't thank you enough.

You're a busy man, I know that you're a very busy man, but thank you so much for your time.

Keep doing what you do because you are the very best at it.

Um, and the lovely thing, I think, with what you do, my friend, is, and I mean this, in 500 years' time, somewhere in the future, however, people look at photos and whatever else, your pictures will still be being looked at.

And and not only is uh you take your photos of players and games and moments, but you're taking pictures of history as well, my friend.

So keep doing what you do, and and thank you so much for your time this morning.

Thank you very much for having me on.

And a picture of England, 20 years photographing the England cricket team home and away by Gareth Copley Jones and Rory Dullard, and published by Pitch Publishing, is now available at all good retailers.

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So there are our friends at Newbery Cricket, and now it is competition time, and thanks to our friends at Newbury Cricket, we have a special SPS bat to give away.

Right.

While you were away, Mauritius, young Hector, I uh imagined myself donning the SPS, but not this time.

Well, it was in a test match.

And do you know what I did?

I walked out in front of a full crowd at Lords, donning my SPS batch, which is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of willow.

And it was against New Zealand, of all people, which is quite appropriate, as they're turning up this summer, of course, for the first test of the summer.

And Matt Henry was bowling.

Matt Henry was bowling.

Do you know who was at the other end opening the batting with me?

Uh Dom Sibley.

Yeah, Dom Sibley.

I took I took I took the first ball, of course.

And uh Matt Henry bought a lovely length delivery, and I just pushed forward with my SPS.

And do you know what happened?

It went for four.

Yes, straight back past the bowler for four.

Because it is a beautiful piece of willow.

And of course, you can win that beautiful piece of willow by getting the question right.

Your name then goes into the hat, and we will pull a name out of the competition hat, as we like to call it now, and and that name will win the beautiful SPS cricket bat.

So, last week's question, and you won't know the answer to this, young Hector.

What amazing achievement did Miles Davis complete playing for Pencridge against Pelsaw in the Premier Division of the South Staffordshire County League on the Saturday before last.

Do you think you know the answer, Hector?

Yes, I saw it all over BBC Sport, didn't he?

And six balls a double hat trick.

He did a double hat trick.

So so well done to everybody who got that right.

Your name has got into the hat.

So this week's question and and you heard Mr.

Copley Jones talking about him in last week's game between Somerset and Yorkshire.

What milestone did Joe Ruby?

That is this week's question.

If you think you know the answer, email us at sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com.

Tweet at Sundayservice22.

And our friends at Newbery have released an official Sunday service discount code.

You can now use the discount code SundayService15 and get 15% off goods at www.newbury.co.uk, excluding bisopokabas.

So why not treat yourself to some premium gear and quality willow?

Right, that is stunts for this episode of the Sunday service with Church and Vickers.

We will be back together next Sunday, the 17th of May.

So get that date in your download, Dari.

Don't forget, you can send us your answers to the quiz and to what cricket sound is this, and you can still get anything you want to off your chest cricket wise by emailing sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com or tweeting at Sundayservice22.

So thank you all for listening.

If you've liked what you've heard, please race and review us.

It really helps others find the podcast because, as I say every week, we want us all to join together and be one big happy cricketing family.

Thank you to Gareth Copley Jones again for joining us today.

And of course, thank you to our friends at Newbury Cricket for all their support and their magnificent competition prize, the SPS bat.

Again, it is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of widow.

Until next Sunday from London and Nottingham, this has been Hector Vickers and Mark Church production.

Have a magnificent cricketing week, everybody, and one thing's for sure, it is a good week to give the England selectors an urge.

Goodbye.