Episode 34 - New Zealand 'Hall of Fame' and legendary commentator, Jeremy Coney: Part 1

Hello everyone and thank you for joining us again on the Sunday service with Church and Bickets.

It's been quite the week in the cricketing world.

England won a test match, and all we have heard about is curfews and collapse of the night.

Thankfully, the Women's World Cup has started to start a new discussion about actual cricketing matters, and the old man is with me.

And he doesn't have a curfew this evening.

I'm with you, young Hector, and we are at Beckingham.

It's the break in between the innings of the women's 50 overgame as we record.

And young Hector with all the controversy.

And a curfew for me this evening, mainly because I like to be in bed by eight o'clock with a nice cup of Horlicks and a good book to go.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Sunday service with church and figures.

Oh yes, we are back.

We're here at Beckham commentating on Surrey Woman v the Blaze in the one-day cup, and it has been a busy cricketing week.

England beat New Zealand in the Test match, and Saracens had their end of season party.

These are facts.

Not sure the second one is a fact that we need to know about, but it is a fact nonetheless.

How has your week been, Tom?

All I can say, Unhumpton, is Saracens Academy have got some big lads in it, haven't they?

They are big fellas.

It's been a busy week.

I have seen down Lawrence bat in a very naughty manner.

Mr.

Jeremy Coney has been standing with me, which has been a complete and utter joy.

The Women's World Cup is underway in the T20, and England have got off to a winning start.

And yesterday, we have our day at Buckingham watching Surrey in the restart of the Women's One-Day Cup competition, and the sun has come out as well.

And there is no curfew of Mr.

Coney and I tonight, which is marvellous because we might stand up a little bit later to discuss his battle against the West Indies.

And I can assure everyone there will be no rugby players about.

Oh, what's on today's show, please?

Well, talk about the cricketing tournament in which you talk about the foldboard archbishop with it to the power title.

We have the latest edition of a hard-hitting feature.

And our customer with no introduction, needing that all it's Mr.

Terminal Tony.

And thanks to our friends at New Board Cricket, we have our competition where you can win one of the magnificent XP cricket bats, and it is still a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of willow.

And don't forget you can get in touch with us, just email sundayservice.pod at yourhoo.com or tweet at Sundayservice22.

Lots to get through, so let's get cracking with the Sunday service.

Hi, Matt Fisher, Surrey in England.

You're listening to the Sunday service with church and vicars.

Good morning.

I hope your cricketing week has been full of strong shots, good surfaces, no curfews, or clubs of the nighttime variety.

And that is all I have to say on that.

It has been another extremely busy week in the parish.

Monday was spent at the Oval Shire watching the second day of Surreyshire against Hampshire Shire.

Much of the morning was spent in the rain, reminiscing on the batting of Dan Lawrence on Sunday, who played an innings sent straight from the heavens of cricket with shots that were very good and at times extremely naughty.

Sadly, on Monday, the opening session of the week, of course, the rain fell for much of the day, and only 24 overs of cricket were possible.

Now, thankfully, Tuesday was drier, and the day was spent seeing Hampshire Shire avoid the old follow-on and welcoming one of the greats of the cricketing clergy to the commentary box, namely the Archbishop of New Zealand, Mr.

Jeremy Coney.

I am delighted to say Mr.

Coney returned with me to the parish on Tuesday evening and is staying for a week at Boycott Vicarage.

I left early on Wednesday to catch the Holy Rattler, leaving Mr.

Coney to catch a later train to the Ovalshire.

Unfortunately, of the two trains he could have caught, he chose the wrong one, leaving the Archbishop to work out the difference between the Victoria Line and the Northern Line.

Thankfully, Divine Inspiration guided him to the Ovalshire, where we were treated to another D.

Lawrence masterclass, enabling Surreyshire to declare an attempt to bowl Hampshire Shire out for a second time on the final afternoon.

Despite two early wickets, Hampshire Shire negotiated their way to the hour of five o'clock.

Hands were shook, and I guided Archbishop Coney safely back to the parish and a night of cricketing chat at Boycott Vicarage.

Thursday was parish visits to discuss any cricketing problems, and I'm delighted to say Archbishop Coney joined me.

The ladies of the Women's Institute were delighted to see him, and a happy day was spent eating Mrs.

Bartholomew's pelchered sandwiches and joining the WI Book Club to discuss their monthly read, namely the novel of Robert Galbraith, The Cuckoo's Calling.

Archbishop Coney brought a whole new dimension to the afternoon when he asked the ladies, Why a cuckoo and who is it calling?

A three-hour discussion followed, and no conclusion was actually reached, but the ladies of the WI left with a happy glow on their faces, having also learnt more about the likes of Sir Richard Hadley and Ewan Chatfield.

We met young Mr.

Vickers and made our way to the Badgers Googly, where Archbishop Coney delivered a rousing team talk to the Parish Eleven ahead of Sunday's game against the florists of small whining.

I feel the team were inspired by the Archbishop's words, especially Derek the Panther, who patrols the covers, funnily enough, like a slightly aged panther, and actually woke up halfway through Archbishop Coney's rousing speech and shouted, Is it pie for lunch?

I feel the Archbishop's speech has put the team in the right frame of mind for a third win of the summer, and an enjoyable evening was had by all.

Friday, the Archbishop and I visited our neighbouring parish of Scratching on the Knoll, and alongside Mr.

Vickers, we partook in some brass rubbing and bell ringing.

It was a marvellous day, and in the evening the three of us spent the night doing our cricketing statistics because yesterday we were at Beckinghamshire for the restart of the Women's One Day Cup as Surreyshire took on the blaze.

And for the first time in weeks, I am actually with you this morning, and Archbishop Coney is also with you for the service, and you will hear him a little later.

Young Mr.

Vickers has been working diligently all week on his musical reworking of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, which he assures me still has its western theme, and I am very much looking forward to that musical interpretation being performed by the choir in a few moments' time.

And of course, this afternoon the Parish Eleven take on the florists of small whining, and I hope to see many of you there supporting the team.

And if anyone has seen Reg in the last couple of days, could you let me know?

Because we really need to find him before the game because we need him to open the bowling.

And yes, I have checked behind the bar of the Badgers Googly.

So, my cricketing friends, another busy week in the parish.

England are winning Test matches again, which is excellent, but I must admit I have not enforced a curfew on the Parish 11 this evening.

Thank you to Archbishop Coney for being with us this week.

I must say his annual visit is a highlight for the parish, especially the ladies of the Women's Institute.

Until next week, may your decision on whether to play an extra batter rather than the spinner be the right one, and most importantly, bat well everyone.

Bat very, very well.

What cricket sound is this?

In a moment you will hear a sound, and all you have to do is tell us what cricket sound it is.

Now last week you heard this particular sound, and the question was, as always, what cricket sound is this?

That was of course Lee Fortin, sorry Ted Grandsman cutting the outfield at the Kira oval on Sunday morning.

Of course it was.

No, no, no, no.

It's the sound of the MOA.

The MOA.

There's only one type of MOA forty.

The big one.

The big that was a big MOA sound.

Well, now it's time for this week's sound.

It's a bit of a humdinger this one, and the question is what cricket sound is this?

If you think you know, email sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com or tweet at Sundayservice22.

This is Cameron Steele, and you are listening to the Sunday service with church and vicars.

And now it's time for our cricketing guest.

Mr.

Jeremy Coney captained New Zealand to a first ever series win in England and Australia.

Mr.

Jeremy Coney played 52 test matches and 88 one-day internationals.

Mr.

Jeremy Coney scored 2,668 test match runs with 316 test match 50s.

He also scored 1,874 one-day runs.

Mr.

Jeremy Coney also took 27 Test match wickets and 54 one-day international wickets.

And he was one of the best leftfielders in the world, earning him the nickname of the Mantles.

And Mr.

Jeremy Coney is, of course, one of the most respected voices in the game and one of the best loved voices in the game.

Well, Mr.

Jeremy Coney has been staying with me this week, and he very kindly sat down to chat about his career, broadcasting, and life in general.

Because it is Mr.

Jeremy Coney, we have split the interview into two parts, and you can hear the second part in next week's service.

So we sat on the sofa, and I started by asking him, as always, the hard-hitting question How are you, Mr.

Jeremy Coney?

That's a good start.

I'm feeling fine.

I'm staying with you.

So that's that's a good start.

I'm sleeping late.

Now they're all good signs, aren't they?

So I'm having a good time, thank you.

Um what are you going to talk about?

I don't know.

Let's start with this, okay.

And you were at the test match last week, obviously.

I don't want to talk about anything that happened after the test match because I'm slightly bored of all of that now.

Um what I would like to talk to you about, and it would be remiss of me not to, really.

Um what were your thoughts on that opening test?

Did we learn a great deal about anything?

Well, we learned a great deal about the the the condition of the Lord's pitch, I think.

As far as the playing was concerned, ideal situations for bowlers, they took advantage of it.

As bowlers tend to.

Um England caught better than New Zealand, and if New Zealand had done a little better in that particular aspect of the game, then we might have had a really close match.

So it's a pretty simple game, I thought in the end.

Didn't last long, did it?

There wasn't really enough time for r for things to open up and out and flower.

No.

So yeah, it was um England were better at the basics, which is not a thing I normally think of.

I wouldn't if I compared the two sides, actually.

Was it nice to be back in the media centre?

Because what you you you come back in the summer that's my special and you're doing a bit of talk sport as well, aren't you?

Um i is it nice to be back in the in in the the media centre and be back and see a few old faces?

Absolutely.

I've been coming long enough now.

Um I look forward to meeting all the people that I've been able to meet over the years through through commentary.

Um Lords is a special place.

I think for a lot of overseas players, you've heard all this before, of course.

Um it is a s it is, they uh you you really build yourself up for this one match.

Um and there'll be a lot of disappointment, I think, resident in the New Zealand side at the moment because they missed a chance.

But um uh I've always regarded Lords as a as a special place to to talk about the game.

And uh it's a wonderful view.

It's a terrific place, Lords.

You know, there's such a lot of good things about it.

And it was a pity that the most important thing in the in the whole thing was was just uh substandard, really.

So that was a disappointment, but visiting Lords always is good.

Right, okay.

I'm gonna take you back.

I'm gonna take I'm gonna hit reverse.

When for Jeremy Carey did cricket begin for for whenever I do this and I speak to anybody, it's always in the backyard.

Uh either on your own with a batonable uh up against a bridge or with brothers somewhere.

So is that the same for you?

Very much so.

Um I suppose when I stepped from mother's womb onto dry land, I didn't know about cricket.

In fact, I wanted to be an all-black.

Right, rugby.

I wanted to wear the black socks and the shorts and the top.

Um and and it continued for a while, uh, that feeling of wanting that legacy and and joining that group.

Um and we used to actually play I I was very lucky because Dad bought a house in in Colway Street, Nyo, Wellington.

And the beauty of the house really was that it had a tennis court out of the back.

And so there was this wonderful flat open area and it was just available all the time.

Um the difficult part was cleaning the drains, but I could handle that once a week.

And so uh we played a we played rugby uh on that surface first, actually.

Probably we played once a week a a a family match.

Yeah.

We invited some of the neighbors to join us and then we would pick up, usually on a Thursday, we would meet after and and an amorphous group of people would arrive.

Some middle-aged men and occasionally their wives wives or wife and it was pretty tough, actually.

Dad Dad was uh a rangy kind of flanker who followed the ball quite closely, he's quite quick, uh, and giving lots of advice as he went, but always just beyond the margins of the the the sort of the contact zone.

I had two older brothers, Chris and Tim, memorably vicious.

And I wanted to get them back, of course.

I didn't like them much, and they certainly didn't like me.

Uh with the with the treatment they meted out.

Um but you know, I always thought we're family, and you never know when you might need a new kidney.

Very true, especially with those games for the sales of things.

And and mum was good.

What position did Mum play?

Uh in the front row.

She was she's very good in the tight.

Quite often a middle-aged man would um emerge from a ruck, yes.

Um holding his face and and and perhaps holding also a c a damaged rib.

So she knew the dark arts of the front room.

She did.

She did.

We got concerned, we thought after a three or four games she might have had mild concussion.

Uh and we had to move her from tight head prop to loose head uh and we completely lost our ball.

So that was a bit of a disappointment.

So mum had to take a rest for a while.

But the whole game was actually really good for the little community around us.

And it wasn't until I was about maybe eight and a half, nine that I realized when my coach took me aside and said, Jeremy, um you're you're really not quite fast enough.

And and you're frankly, you're scared.

Heartbreaking moment.

It was.

But then I had the choice, of course, to look elsewhere.

Tennis was never an option because it you know, even though we had a tennis court, coaches were expensive and so on, and you have to go away and live overseas if you're any good and so on.

And I was I was definitely planning to be good.

And so that wasn't an option.

And you know, soccer soccer wasn't really an option at all either.

Um it wasn't quite the rugged quality that Rugby I mean rugby and and then cricket, of course, came along and it it didn't supply the mud that rugby did or the dangers of of, you know, sudden a punch coming from nowhere.

But I it c it kind of got me quite quickly.

My brother was already playing Chris and he left all his gear in the wash house and so which was redolent of of linseed oil, and I used to watch him you know, rubbing it against a sort of an edge on the wash of the bench or something like that, pushing the the oil into his bat, and so you'd go in the next day, it was a wonderful smell.

And then I'd try his pads on when he was away, of course, not there.

And um the seductive clink of the buckles got me.

And then also he had uh a set he was a left-hander, he had a set of uh old batting gloves which were actually open on the inside, so you held the hand and you could feel the rubber, and you poked your little into a little pocket, each of your fingers, and then you were left with about a yard of elastic, which you wound around your wrist and up your arm until you could pop the thumb on.

So I would get dressed in all these things.

It was dressing up.

And uh so that was a very much an attraction to go in in into the the wash house.

Uh when he did arrive home, of course, they were all p back in exactly the place that I There was another item that I had no idea what it was.

It was lots of lots of things dangling down and it it reminded me of a sh what we would call a Shanghai.

What do you call a Shanghai here?

That you put something into and flick away goes down.

A catapult.

A catapult.

We call it a Shanghai in New Zealand.

Hanging dangling things, and of course, you know, uh that was obviously in in those days a jock strap.

But that c that was quite convenient.

I remember that as well, because I you often see in films and things sort of fathers coming home and and and their son is dressed up in something and it causes a conversation, doesn't it?

Yes.

Uh I I must have been about six, I think, when I discovered Dad's cricket.

Uh again, I used to do it secretly when he was at work and put pads on and uh gloves and bad.

And then he came home early one day from work and found me in all his gear.

He wasn't happy.

He wasn't I did uh looking back now, it could have been far worse, obviously.

There are other things I could have dressed up in, and he would have had to sat down with me and had a quiet word, wouldn't he?

But but I think, yes, I think we've all been happy.

How?

So from there that progression up to when it became serious for you.

Uh being selected insides for representing Wellington, underage teams right through.

Um were you captaining in age group cricket as well?

Was captaincy always something that you wanted to do?

Was it because I always think captains some some captains always want to be captains and other players just become captains.

Was captaincy always on your radar?

No.

No.

No, just to be as good as I could be.

Um and spent a lot of time doing it, of course.

I made friends through cricket and um had some very close friends as well.

Uh that would come around and play test matches, obviously, on on the tennis court and and um really my whole the twilight of my childhood really was just spent on that court.

Either myself throwing the ball against w the wall and then batting, throwing the ball against the wall and catching, um, and then playing uh against these friends that came around.

Dad would always arrive home very, you know, very kind of disciplined man at the same time.

Mum would race in a couple of minutes earlier and make sure there was water in pots and they were bubbling, and so the thing and Dad as soon as he heard that was very happy.

And then he would he would put on his Paisley dressing gown and play the violin for a little time and come out and throw to me, and he was everything.

He was the umpire, he was the bowler, but he threw, he didn't bowl.

Uh and he would have maybe upward of twenty fielders.

He said, You can't hit it there.

I said, Well, hang on.

Is there no gaps anywhere here, Dad?

And so, and it was a compo ball, so it would bounce a bit, and uh but he would get it to turn.

And we had some great, great battles actually.

Um and so that was a fun part of the day.

Otherwise, I was I would if I wasn't playing on the tennis court, it would be on the on the clothes line, um, and mum's stocking and the ball inserted in and wild flapping linen because it was Wellington and the wind was quite strong.

And just hitting it as it came.

I'd heard that a man called Bradman had done this, so I was very keen to sort of start to follow in his footsteps, of course.

And so every time you missed, that's a man out.

And you were you had played, you know, New Zealand versus England, and you were always in the team.

If you failed, you came in later in the innings as well uh to assure your success.

Um and so there were a range of games, whether there were people there or not.

And then going through sides and then being selected for the club that I played for.

I only played for one club, Onslow, just up the road.

Um, and an old wooden kind of pavilion, which is now a car park.

I went back there to look at Nenville.

Uh that's the the name of the ground, and um it was it was oh gosh, what a place that was.

The pitted floor, you know, with all the thousands of sprigs that went in and and the horrible little piece of carpet in the middle that damaged your retina as soon as you looked at it.

And uh and and the tiny kitchen which, you know, had the worst wallpaper, looked like sort of Polish ration books around around it, and the meat raffle that hadn't been won or hadn't raffle that hadn't there's some some person hadn't taken it away after winning it.

Terry O'Reilly, who played for us in the first first team, his teeth still on the perhaps the bottom set, just sitting on top of the piano where he used to play, cheap beers, the little door, the the the the door, the tiniest toilet in the world, which if you swung a cat it would kill it immediately, and the cat would thank you.

And then uh uh a place with all the gear uh and it wasn't until you opened that room um that you found just how much it costs to run a club nowadays, and so many clubs are in trouble.

But you know, all the bags were set out, and Jim Linton used to run that.

He was in the third team, Jimmy.

He had only one leg and uh he would he would make sure that the the captains would pick up the bag of gear and take it and bring it back, and it had to be down in the book, and he was ideal for that particular job.

Jim played, as I say, in the third, he never got runs before Christmas in Wellington because of the wickets, they were wet and damp, and so with his peg leg, he kind of he would hit it to mid off and set off, but the the the peg would sit into the ground, and so he tended to run in circles, and there were a lot of run-outs, I remember, with Jimmy, and people became very suspicious about batting with him.

Um but yeah, though I mean that that club side and developing, I think the point for me was developing the friendships of a cricket team and the importance of not playing solely for yourself, even though it's a bit of a paradox, isn't it?

The more that you do and the and the more runs you can take, the more wickets you can take, and so on, selfishly, therefore you're helping your team.

But there are times, of course, for example, if if you were trying to get to a hundred and you took an inordinate amount of time to get there for your last five runs and taking care, that it slows the game down, and that's what you don't want to happen.

So important, important little things, even though playing at the club level, and the friendships that you had, um, and the practices and how hard did you work at a practice, what were you aiming at at a practice, you know, that's that you could practice perhaps letting the ball go and knowing where your off stump was, and getting bowled three or four times because of it.

That's okay.

You start to learn about where should I stand and and so on, and where does my right eye sit over.

So though they were important and fun days, and we we developed pretty good side actually at at at at Onslow.

So that was all fun, and then finally into the Wellington team.

So it it was a progression, and I was lucky enough to see and play at all levels on the way up and on the way through, and I'd already played quite a bit of cricket by the time I arrived.

So when I really enjoyed my first year at playing for Wellington and and players like um Bruce Taylor, who'd already played for and there was some other news, Richard Collins, another fast bowler, had played.

Wellington was a pitch then that bounced a lot, and we loved getting the Orcs down there, the Orcs with their white shoes, white leather shoes and their cravats.

Uh, you know, and so we would give them a working over, no doubt about that.

So that was fun.

Um and and Artie Dick, another man, uh very white is still alive.

Very he he was a quite a tall wicket keeper for New Zealand in the 1960s.

He they drew the a series two all against South Africa, which was one of which was a fine effort, really, and he was he was a wonderful fellow.

We wee boy jerk wee jerry.

We Jerry.

Did you catch that wee Jerry?

Good boy.

Made me ill the first night.

He was wonderful at hitting catches that you just couldn't quite get to.

High ones, and you dive and you take it.

Did you did you catch that wee boy?

What a wee man you are.

And he he was a lovely fellow and and you wanted to play well for him.

Um and then so we won the Plunkett Shield that year, uh, which was fab.

And I that's where I met my my if there was one person I felt as a bit of a mentor, was a guy called Bruce Murray, Amelia Kerr's grandfather, and Robbie Kerr, his father, played for Wellington as well.

So uh what a wonderful he kind of balanced guy Baggs was.

He was a a headmaster at Tawa College further just further north.

And he I just used to sort of trail in his footsteps for a while, just listening to him, and we'd walk around Dunedin and places like that, and he would talk to me about touring and what it was like and how to play and how where it was difficult, and it was just a a part of my education that I do recall.

And when did it begin to sort of dawn on you?

Hang on, I might I might play for New Zealand here.

Because I'm always fascinated by that because sort of people start getting talked about and then there's a bit of pressure and it's am I get am I gonna get picked, am I not gonna get picked?

But when when did that sort of start occurring to you?

That was about Well, it was it was I'd been playing for Wellington maybe for two years and um had s had scored quite well.

Um and so I was I was kind of on the outside of getting into that team.

70 73 was a very good side for New Zealand.

Bevan Congdon's side came to England and got nearly got that 400 at Trent Bridge chasing it.

And they they it's interesting in New Zealand if you follow New Zealand cricket history, it takes usually about nine, eight to nine years to build up a side, so that's the valley, if you like, as they sort of start to get better, and then they get to a sort of a crest, some higher than others, of course, depending on the players that you have.

And then down the other side as they could because you you've got to remember at those days that they w they weren't professional players, they they all had jobs, the same as when I played, most of our cricketers.

You know, there were starting to be a few who'd come to England like like um Parker and Howis and Hadley and Turner, those kinds of players were playing here full-time, and they helped our side as well.

But back back in 73 there weren't any of those, so th they were a strong side.

So I wasn't going to make that team, but when they all came back from England and they'd been to Pakistan and to India, it's a long tour, and won their first test series there, that they suddenly there were five or six defections and and and and suddenly spots opened up.

Glenn Turner got hurt in Australia.

So that was that was the first test series that I was suddenly wrung one night by Walter Hadley and said, We'd like you to go to Australia.

So that was where I headed off to.

So it was slightly unusual circumstances, but um I I got over there and and obviously was twelfth man in the you know, I wasn't going to play in the first test match.

We had three tests in Australia and then three in New Zealand.

Um and um I played this in the second test, so my first test was at Sydney.

Uh memories of that?

Memories of the test debut?

Here the Hill.

Yeah.

Uh uh grounds have changed.

That's how old I am now.

And and so um facing uh Gus Gilmore and facing who swung the ball quite a bit, facing uh the in-swinger.

I can't remember his name now.

He was a lovely fella, spoke it, brilliant speaker.

Um everyone will be knowing telling me.

Come on, Coney, you get it.

Anyway, so there were and then of course there were the you know, all the batting was very strong.

Paul Sheehan and and and that kind of group.

Uh, and then of course the the two chapels and and Walters and and it went on, you know, and those were still the days when they would bat for sort of uh two or three days in an unreasonable number of runs, and then we would respond with a thing called a collapse.

And and but uh that was kind of the two the state of the two nations.

So we nearly won that second test.

Um we were about four hundred and something ahead.

I got a forty odd in the first dig and uh, I don't know, about a fifteen in the second, but other guys got some runs and we left them, as I say, about four hundred and fifty to get, and they were two for thirty, and the whole the whole of the last day rained.

And of course Ian Chapel came out and said New Zealand saved by rain.

So and then the third test we lost in the rain, actually.

The the lumps wouldn't take us off, so and then we beat them when they came over to to to Christchurch.

So that was a special team to be part of.

Absolutely for me, so how old would I have been?

This is not uh 73?

No, no, I was that was the year I was born.

There you go.

Uh I was just a twinkle twinkle in the eye back then.

But what I remember is you coming over in the mid-80s and beating England in that series.

There was quite a lot that happened in that series.

Um that was a great team that you had.

With that team, was it as a captain that you were always very positive as a captain, and you're always very positive in your thinking on cricket.

What what were your thoughts sort of getting here looking at that England team and the team that you had?

Because as I say, there was all sorts of stories going on during that series where we had the the Bruce French Bob Taylor coming out, didn't we?

Beefy came back, didn't he, for uh yeah, last test and took a wicket with his first ball?

Yes.

Jeff Crow, I think it was.

Yeah, that's right.

Or Bruce Egg.

Bruce Egger, no, it was Bruce Egger first, and then but but what arriving for that series, what what was your your thoughts for your team and how to beat England?

Well, uh the first thing that's that always interests me is what's the social groupings of a team?

How how are we gonna do this?

And it was actually aside in those days where we were playing some other counties as well.

So it was a there was a a developmental component about a tour which has completely disappeared today.

And that's a shame, I think.

So there were some younger players, very young players, part of that group, and when I looked around, it was about half and half.

Some older guys who had played in quite a few tests, they were married, they had families, they were settled, they knew about touring, and and that they didn't concern me quite so much.

The younger group, and it was about, I would say, a third of the players were on their first or second tour, had played maybe four or five tests or less, and you know, clearly they were going to have a different view of touring a place like England, and so I was a little bit not concerned, but I thought I'm gonna watch this.

The good thing about touring England is that you don't travel by plane, you travel by bus, and so you're with each other quite a lot, and that's a good opportunity to to sort of fraternize and keep these two groups, you know, just kind of linked.

Um, and so but it wasn't an easy tour looking back.

We lost our manager, Bob Vance went home because he was un he was unwell.

We lost Ewan Chatfield, who was one of our main three bowlers that we were going to use in the test.

He injured a f and broke a thumb.

He became the manager of the tour.

I mean and then Bruce Edgar became the guy in charge of the money.

So he was yeah.

So players were having to do a little bit extra here and there.

Lots of social lots of social demands.

Uh I remember Wrighty was always fun to be around, John Wright.

And I remember him explaining to a very, very attentive group of women how he was a mower hunter.

Now a mower is a large bird back in New Zealand with two legs.

Yeah.

Uh and they've been extinct for um thousands of years.

And and so that was that was that was fun.

That was fun.

It probably yeah.

But the cricket the cricket side of the cricket uh cricket side of it, uh because we lost Chatfield in the one day series, and then the first test at Lord's came along.

Um the bowling wasn't so strong other than Richard.

It was Richard Hadley's, he was obviously our key man with the ball, and we had to work with him very closely.

It was his benefit year at Knotts, and so he had arranged lots of fixtures around the New Zealand, and he didn't play in any of the matches other than the tests.

And gee, what a player he was.

Um so we played and we helped him, we played quite a number of his his matches, New Zealand playing whoever that he had arranged, and and and so that added a little bit to the demands of the tour.

But he was there, that was that was good, and but we didn't quite have without Chatfield, when we we could perhaps get a second bowler, but not a third seamer, and so we had to we had to you know to pick guys who are relatively young, and um that was an issue, I think, getting through a day.

But then a fellow called Evan Gray came in and and bowled beautifully for us, and Bracewell, who we'd just we had just come in 85 of beating Australia over an Australia in a test series, not just a one-off, a test series.

And then they came to New Zealand and we'd beaten them again in New Zealand in a test series.

So there was a there was an aspect of confidence that we could handle England.

Um it was and so that level of confidence was high, and Evan Gray really bowled beautifully for us.

And so it that compensated in a sense, and then we had Bracewell, who was a very attacking off-spinner at that point, and was drifting the ball in the air, and I could I could place pressure on on right-handers and left handers, with men in round the bat and slips, and so we were always, I felt, in the game through our spinners rather than our traditional seamers.

And when them and paddles coming back here and there, and with Gray and and Brace all bowling into a wind or whatever it was.

So I felt we were always in the game.

We drew the first test with uh Graham Gooch saving the the game for England with a with a fine 170 or 160, whatever it was, it was enough.

But they had to bat England had to battle against us.

Uh and then the second test was at at at uh Trent Bridge, and this is Hadley's, you know, homes home place, home test match, and so he played he another ten wickets in the match for him.

And players like Bracel getting a hundred at number eight.

We had that.

We had different pl different parts of the team who would suddenly provide a difference in the game.

And then Evan Gray batted for probably five hours for fifty, uh, and just kept that middle order and lower middle order going.

So yeah, uh and then in the third test, uh Botham came back and he made a difference immediately to the confidence level, I think, of the England side, and they played with a much stronger will.

And so Gower got a hundred, and I think maybe Gatting got a hundred.

Gat was the captain that that year, and um yeah, so I I mean I certainly remember a couple of little incidents.

I do remember the Bob Taylor incidents in the first S when Rich Richard hit Bruce French in the head, and so he went he went off, and when he was bat Bruce French batting, and and um so then they got Bill Athey, I think, to start keeping, and I thought, okay, well that's all right.

Uh and then Gat came to me and said, Look, is it possible we could have another keeper?

And I I couldn't see the reason why not, to be honest.

You could be a bit mingy, you might get a few more buys, you might get an occasional dropped catch down the leg side, um standing.

Back to those, I don't see there's to much to be gained by being miserable actually.

So anyway, that's the way that's the way I felt about the game.

Uh and so they said, Look, could we get Bob Taylor to come out?

I said, Sure you can.

I how is he?

I said, Is he I thought he had retired.

He and he had a few years earlier.

So he was in some sponsor's tent and came out and um borrowed people's gear and came onto the ground and kept beautifully for them and everyone loved that.

And then the next day they got a guy from called Parks from from I think Sussex or somewhere like that, who was playing at the oval and they pulled him in.

Well I at that point I said to I said, Cat, Cat, you're taking the piss a bit here, man.

I d I mean I'm not I'm not gonna make a sa song and dance about it, but I I was was quite happy to have a replacement.

Um I didn't have to say yes, but I did.

But you don't need to have four or five extra replacements, you know?

Um so that was my feeling about it, and that was the game, of course, where Gat people say it was Gooch, I'm pretty sure it was Gat who said in his post-match uh you know speech with the with the media, it's like facing the World Eleven at one end, which was Richard, of course, Richard Hadley, and and uh the Ilford second eleven at the other.

Now I've actually played at Ilford, not the best ground, but okay.

And of course when you denigrate the opposition like that, that's actually quite a good thing to use.

And Bracewell was the man.

I didn't really I didn't say here's an opportunity.

Bracewell did it all on his own.

He went out and he was furious, you know, the old well, he was a grave digger at the time.

He's a gravedigger.

Yeah, that was his job.

Down in Otago, cold down there, hard earth, tough man.

Never get never mark braces in the in the little warm-up rugby match.

Your pht shins were raked.

You were done over.

And anyway, Brace decided, right, we're gonna do something about this Ilford Second Eleven.

Come in.

And and what he did, of course, we got our we got our t-shirts done and he had very he'd obviously quite busy because he got mug shots of all the squad around there and the top over the top, the Silford the Ilford Second Eleven Tour of England, 1986.

And we warmed up in those.

Everybody had that was compulsory, a warm-up.

And you found at different times in the in the series from then on, second and third test, cries coming from the covers.

Come on, Ilford! Come on, Ilford! We can do this and and you could see the the amusement on some of the English batsmen.

But we won the warm-ups always, we made sure we won the warm-ups, we were out there first, we were warming up, we'd done a lot of work before and they would sort of straggle out.

They were still playing, of course, four-day cricket.

And so this was just another game, in a sense.

Even a more important game for the English side.

So we loved all that.

Um and we happened to get through.

We were probably saved by rain.

Morally, it was a win for England in the last test match, but it didn't happen.

It was a it was a you know uh a game played in the changing room, really, because of the amount of rain.

And then we had lots and lots of um other things to do.

We went and played in over uh overseas as well, and back for uh it was a it was a long tour.

But I thought we hung in there.

It wasn't a clear-cut victory, but we'd done enough to win just so everybody is aware of that.

So that was the first time New Zealand had been in England in a series.

In this country.

We had beaten them in a test to the s the series in eighty-three before.

To win the series in England, that was the first time ever.

And and at the end of that, even though it'd been a long tour there must have been a huge amount of satisfaction to have got the job done.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I I um I I don't know, it was why I I can remember thinking sitting down and after that and thinking, why why why uh why us and why me particularly?

Um and I couldn't re I thought of all the older New Zealand players that had been coming here and trying to beat England and England and why it was my name sort of came up I I I couldn't couldn't really understand.

Um obviously we had a couple of world very much world class players and Martin Crow and and Paddles.

Um but I think the the the difference of the side really was that we had all these other players, the New Zealand-based players actually, who had r their level had risen and they could make quite significant contributions at different times in a game like taking a couple of wickets here or changing changing a game slightly with an innings there, attacking a bit more than perhaps we might normally.

For years we had looked to England, you know, to look to home with a capital H as how to play the game and we'd had players come over here but we'd started to look at Australia as well as a potential place and to t to learn things about how to win games.

And so I think that those those components had raised the level of of the New Zealand players, the Bruce Edgers of the game, you know, uh and and the Martin Crows, of course, he was then he had been to Lords, of course, and and was as were I don't know if he'd been to Somerset then or not.

He probably was, yes.

Um but the but it was the uh it was the other guys and they were still amateurs, but but they knew how to play and they were keen to play.

So I think that was probably one of the differences.

We'd had very good players before Bert Suckliff and Bevan Congren and Bruce Taylor and Mark Burgess and lots of good players.

Um but I think the general level, we didn't have a hole, a big hole somewhere.

And next week, Mr.

Jeremy Coney will chat about facing the West Indies, life in the commentary box, his teaching career, and the friendships he has made through cricket.

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So there are our friends at Newbury Cricket, and now it is competition time.

And thanks to our friends at Newbury Cricket, we have an SPS Cricket bat to give away.

And Church, what are your thoughts this week?

Well, uh Hector, I have been thinking about the SPS cricket bat a lot this week.

And do you know what I really want to do?

Play what Hector.

The SPS.

I really, I really want to take the SPS cricket bat on holiday.

So what I want to do is take my SPS cricket my SPS cricket bat on holiday with me to somewhere hot and sunny.

Stroll onto a beach, twiddling my SPS, and invite people to bowl at me whilst using my SPS cricket bath.

That is lovely.

Not to be confused with the SPS, by the way, which I got confused the special boat service.

Now we just go out and one is one of the elite military outfits, the other is a newbury cricket bat.

One of the elite cricket battles.

Similarity.

So, of course, to begin with the chance to win the beautiful, beautiful, beautiful Newbery SPS Cricket battle, you have to answer the question.

Your name will then go in the hat if you get the question right, and then a name will be pulled out the hat, and that name will win the SPS cricket battle.

So last week's question What milestone did Jason Roy reach in Story's 220 game against the Kent Spitfires at the Kier Oval?

The answer was 150 to 220, match four top.

Correct.

So if you've got the answer right, your name's gone in the hat to win the SPS cricket bat.

So this week's question.

Who did it?

Mr.

Jeremy Coney makes his first test match 100 against 444.

And our friends at Newbury have released an official Sunday service discount code.

You can now use the discount code SundayService15 and get 15% off all goods at www.newbury.co.uk, excluding bespoke bats.

So why not treat yourself to some premium gear and quality willow?

Right, that is stumped for this episode of the Sunday service with Church and Vickers.

We will be back together next Sunday, the 21st of June.

So get that date in your download, diary.

Don't forget, you can send us your answers to the quiz and to what cricket sound is this, and you can still get anything you want off your chest cricketwise by emailing sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com or just tweeting at Sundayservice22.

So thank you for listening.

If you've liked what you've heard, please rate and review it because it really helps others find the podcast, because we want us all to be one big happy cricketing family.

Thank you to Mr.

Jeremy Kearney for joining us this week, and you can of course next week hear from Mr.

Jeremy Kearney.

And of course, thank you to our friends at Newberry Cricket for all their support and their magnificent competition prize, the SPS bat, which I want to play just to reiterate what I said is the SPS bat that I want to play with.

It is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of work.

Until next Sunday, it's magnetic amongst production of magnificent freaking everybody and remaining.