From Sweeping Floors to Reach Records: Music Industry Secrets Nobody Talks About With Miguel Avila

speaker-0: Welcome to Creative Chapel, a podcast exploring the vast landscape of Christian artistry. Across denominations and disciplinary mediums, Creative Chapel is building a space where saints can gather and celebrate their walk with Christ with their God-given gifting, encouraging each other in their faith and their craft. Creative Chapel is the place for inspiration, curation, and revelation.

speaker-1: ⁓

speaker-0: Welcome to the Creative Chapel podcast. I'm your host, Chris Mack, and we have our first ever episode and first ever guest with us, Miguel Avila. Yes, sir.

speaker-1: Yes, sir. Clap it up, sir.

speaker-0: You and I have a ⁓ a nice little history doing music videos together with ⁓ the rap duo of formerly known as Flight School. So good memories there. Yes, right. Why don't you introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about ⁓ who you are and where you come from and where you're going.

speaker-1: Flight school. Yeah, ⁓ my name is Avi La, that's my artist's name. first name, Miguel, you know, whatever. I produce, I rap, I engineer, do a little bit of everything. ⁓ started mainly in the Christian space of music. So like rapping in my church, ⁓ producing beats for friends at church, ⁓ even for people at school. When I was in high school, ⁓ I'd record people. I was like the only one who had like a recording studio, you know, had like my little setup. and then yeah, essentially just kinda got a little more serious into it and then kinda phased out of the whole artist side of things and started doing music more for like TV and film and kinda just fell into that space. And just been building that for the last six years and it's been it's been incredible, man. It's been really cool.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's been really cool just seeing your journey from boaming around Metro Detroit like shooting music videos together and you know getting the occasional like Rapzilla placement to ⁓ working with artists within Reach Records, working, you know, getting your your songs on some really cool placements that are impressive. Right. ⁓ and so we we kind of entered our friendship and our relationship when you were kind of already established getting going with flight school, you guys were you had produced one or two albums already or an album and an EP. Right. Yep. And then at that point when I came in, you guys were putting out singles leading up to a full album. Right. So your sophomore album. And so I really don't know much of your backstory behind that of how you and Rich even got together. Yeah. ⁓ your your journey into music right there. And so ⁓ I'm curious if you have any embarrassing moments as a beginner ⁓ that you could could share with the audience about what lessons you learn, whether it's just a funny story. For sure. ⁓ or just some some fun starting out stories.

speaker-1: For sure. Fun and Embarrassing Stories. ⁓ plenty of those. I mean, dude, when I first started making music, ⁓ I think I w I started I started mainly producing and I would like show my beats to some of my friends and they'd be like, These are kinda whack. I was like, These beats are hard, like what are talking about? No bro, like they're whack. Like this is what real beats like these are what real cool beats sound like. You should make beats like that. And then I get all like in my feelings and stuff. And then ⁓ I remember one of my friends was like, You should start you should start rapping, like here. And then gave me like lyrics to rap and stuff. And I was like, I'm gonna wrap my own raps. Started rapping on beats and then that's essentially how I started rapping. ⁓ I was like fifteen. Yeah, I was like fifteen or sixteen. ⁓ 'cause I was like, nobody wants to rap on my beats and then so I started rapping on my own beats and then I like, Yeah, these are kind of trash. So then ⁓ which is kind of funny, you know.

speaker-0: How old were you?

speaker-1: looking back at it now because it's just like, yeah, I was like, dude, what was I thinking? But then I obviously progressed into it. But I feel like that was pretty funny because it was just like people being super honest with me up front. Just being like, dude, no, that's not it. Like you gotta do s you gotta do better than that. But no, like actually the funny thing with me and Rich, so one of the most embarrassing things that has ever happened to me, we were on our way to a show and bro, Rich can Rich can vouch and he'll he'll laugh about it. And ⁓ we also had another friend of ours, and we were on our way to Maryland, and we were driving. So from Detroit to Maryland, I think it was like 12 hours to ⁓ Baltimore or Ocean City, I think that's what it's called. And ⁓ 12 hour trip. And at the time I had a stick shift, nobody knew how to drive stick. So of course I become the only driver. And so I'm driving, and as we got closer. We probably had like three or four hours left. And I I had to go to the restroom so bad. I had to pee. I had to boo-boo. Bro, TMI, my bad. I had to go so bad. And every time I'm about to get off an exit, they're like, nah, just keep going, bro. Keep going. Like, just one more. Just one more. Just one more. I'm like, ⁓ all right. Boom. And then I'm like, yo, I really gotta go. They're no, no, no, just one more, one more, one more. Meanwhile, like Rich is over here, like, yeah, one more, one more.

speaker-0: It's

speaker-1: Knocking out and then ⁓ my buddy in the back, he's just laughing the whole time. And then ⁓ eventually I was like, no bruh, I'm getting off, and then got off of the exit and then couldn't find couldn't find nowhere, bruh, for a bathroom. And I go into like this empty parking lot and then like I start, you know, I start like peeing or whatever. And then a frickin' security guard or like a cop or something starts pulling up. So I'm just like, ⁓ my gosh. So I had a pinch and I'm just like, you know, whatever, like walking back to the car, like whatever they're ⁓ you good? I'm like, no, bro, the freaking security guard. So I had to keep driving, bro, and I still had to go, bruh. I'm like low-key leaking on myself. I'm sorry, this is like a c TM T ⁓ I. But eventually, bro, like almost boo-booed myself, bruh, and I like low-key peed myself. And I was so mad, bruh. ⁓ because I'm I'm pissed, huh? Quite literally. And I'm driving and I'm s and I'm getting mad and like more mad because they're just laughing. And they're just like, why didn't you just go? Why didn't you just go? And then bro, I literally was like, because y'all told me to keep driving. Blah blah blah blah. Bro, like I went off on Rich. I went off on my friend in the backseat. And then they were quiet for a second. They started laughing. I was like, it's not funny. bro, I was so mad, dude.

speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ The misadventures of Tour life.

speaker-1: Dog. And then ever since that day I always kept a roll of toilet paper in the back

speaker-0: Hot tip for bands and touring artists, keep toilet paper in the backseat.

speaker-1: Keep a roll of toilet paper in your backseat.

speaker-0: So kinda even diving further into your past, and switching gears a little bit, ⁓ I don't know if I know really your testimony about early life and your Christian walk. what is what was your your kind of like early faith journey?

speaker-1: Yeah, I ⁓ so my mom had me when she was seventeen. ⁓ and then she had my older brother when she was fifteen. So like, ⁓ it's more of her story and then kinda obviously I'm a product of it, but essentially her parents or her mom kinda just didn't wanna like deal with that. And my mom eventually kinda was like on her own from like seventeen. So like having take care of me and then my older brother and then at some point like it was just me 'cause like she kinda lost custody of my my older brother. Crazy situation. ⁓ and so the only place that my mom had to rely on was the church. And ⁓ but Loki like the first church that she was able to like lean back on was a cult. Mm. Wow. ⁓ So like she couldn't have no friends outside of the church. She couldn't hang out with anybody outside the church. If you are, then you're like you're not being a good Christian or you're just not being a ⁓ like you're going to hell type stuff. And so I mean I didn't know anything about it, but as I got older, like my mom would always like, ⁓ yeah, that was a cult, like all that kind of stuff. And then as I got older, I'm like, ⁓ yeah, that was for sure a cult. very controlling over her life. So eventually gets out of that, starts going to another church and all this stuff. And then meanwhile also ⁓ during this time I'm also kinda low key going through some like crazy stuff. I had like kind of like my eyes got crusted over. So it was like it was just as it was kind of like really, really bad pink eye, but like it wasn't pink eye. Like my eyes were legit shut closed. My mom would take me to this church or like her friend that was like way older and she they would pray for me and that kind of stuff. And I remember It was like a group of people praying over me and then my eyes finally kind of opened up. And ⁓ I always thought pink lemonade helped. I don't know why. That's like that's also attached. But so saying all this to say is like there were like little things ⁓ that would happen in my life that like God always like kind of covered me, made sure I was wasn't like wasn't actually hurt. ⁓ and so like in that that kind of led me to believe that like off rip there is a higher you know, there's something watching over me. ⁓ when I got to middle school, so sixth grade, I was living in Florida and 'cause all this happened when I was in Texas 'cause that's where like where I'm originally from, ⁓ in El Paso. So ⁓ it was a youth group and ⁓ very friendly to skateboarders. So like there was a bunch of other skateboarders there. So I like cool like You know, whatever. Started going to the youth group and then started understanding for the first time who God was for me, started understanding what the Holy Spirit was for me and then like why a relationship with Jesus is very important. ⁓ so got super plugged in, got super involved ⁓ with that 'cause ⁓ also my home life just wasn't great either. So it was like my escape, you know. And then yeah, man, just kinda tried to change my life and really like really pursue whatever this meant for me.

speaker-0: I feel like there are times when we come into our natural organic God-given talents. We kind of just are like, I'm good at this, I'm just gonna start pursuing it. And we don't fully think about either it being like kind of a divine moment that God is like, I'm showing you your calling, I'm showing you your purpose. Right. do you feel like you kinda like found ⁓ your calling and purpose along the way? Or was there a point of like absolute clarity clarity that it's like God is calling me to do music.

speaker-1: You know, yeah, man, I feel like well, I feel like just growing up I always had this like entertainment. I don't know, like I always had a draw. Like people always were drawn to me. Yeah, like my parent my mom would tell me how like we would be out and about and I would just dance or like do little kid stuff and people would always be drawn to like whatever I was doing. And so I think when I started doing music and like

speaker-0: Prisma.

speaker-1: understanding who God was and stuff like that, understanding purpose and stuff like that. Like I never I don't think I ha ever had a like thing for like necessarily teaching the gospel or teaching like ⁓ just like that or worship like being a worship leader or anything like that or playing in the band. ⁓ like I've tried all that and it just like No it didn't feel like the right thing. ⁓ but like something about just Giving my all out, performing, that's that type of stuff. Like I I really loved it and it felt like incredible. And then just people's reactions towards it being like, man, like just you standing up on stage actually and the way you're presenting yourself makes me want to like just be a better like performer when I'm living my life. Just being a better like like carrying myself with that confidence. Like your confidence on the stage, like you really believing in what you're doing, like makes me want to believe in what whatever I'm doing. ⁓ so to me I was like, ⁓ shoot, like, okay, dope. In hindsight, it's like God was just constantly giving me confirmation of like this is this is what I ha this is the lane I have for you, this is what I've graced you in ⁓ in performing, in ⁓ just executing excellence in this field. Yeah. Right. 'Cause I was pr I prided myself in like my performances. Like I felt like as an artist, like I can put on a really good show. ⁓ And hype people up. Yeah. And all that kind of stuff. So, ⁓ yeah, I mean that's just kind of like what started with that. And then eventually, as I've gotten as I got older and kind of phased out of the performance side of things, teaching all of a sudden became a huge thing for me where it's like I grew I grew so much knowledge in like performing, grew so much knowledge with putting tracks together, grew so much knowledge in production, grew so much knowledge in mixing and all that kind of stuff to where now I want to give these people like the tools to achieve whatever it is they want to do. Mm-hmm. So that started to become my passion. So now it's like as I've gotten older, as I've matured in what I've done, that's essentially where I feel like this is what God has like this is honestly like a new thing for me too, like that God has revealed to me where it's like I have called you not just in music, but I've called you to teach. I've called you to like the experiences that you've had, I've called you to To touch people who have experienced this. And not just like on some like, ⁓ yeah, like I feel you, bro, but like to really navigate the conversation in that and like speak their language. Cause there's a lot of people who, you know, who deal with what I've dealt with and Who have the same upbringing as me or have had a better upbringing than me. And then it's but I could still relate because I've been healed from my upbringing. Or or I don't let that identify me. So it's like you know, saying all that to say is like that's just been the thing where I'm like, man, like God have God was showing me from the beginning what it was I was supposed to be doing. ⁓ and a sen and just, you know, for everybody else too, it's like People are looking at me, but they're not looking at me because of me, it's because of what God has put inside me. So it's like I'm just trying to do my due diligence of being like, It's not just because of me, it's it's because of what God has given me. ⁓ and He's given that to you too. And it's like in whatever field or expertise that you want to get into. So I think that answers your question. Yeah, definitely.

speaker-0: One thing you touched on at the beginning is like trying to fit into boxes that the church has established, whether that was ⁓ preaching, teaching, evangelism. ⁓ I I think it's so consistent for the Christian experience ⁓ to start to get passionate and and full of zeal for ⁓ living a godly life and then when you go to church, you know, you look at the examples before you, which are usually ⁓ you know, the pastors, youth pastors, worship leaders, and you start to examine that and you're like, well if I'm if I'm you know pursuing God, then like being one of these people makes the most sense. Being being a pastor, being a worship leader, being worship pastor, youth leader, whatever, it you know, if I'm getting full of passion for the Lord, then I should be in one of these positions. And so I think it's as creatives, we can feel like a a conviction to pursue that at the cost of where God is pulling us with our creative vocations. Right. so I'd love to to hear a little bit more about some of those journeys that it's like trying these different positions and and walking through the process of like it's like ⁓ no, God actually hasn't called me here. ⁓ God and and I'm getting comfortable with where God is calling me and and most, you know, people in the church actually wouldn't be comfortable in this space.

speaker-1: Right. Yeah, man. So well first off, I wanna say I think it is super, super important to start in the areas that you don't want to start in. I think that is good for character development, maturity, and it's just humility, bro. Like I don't think I would be where I'm at right now if I didn't start. You know, to some people it's the slow start, right? Where it's like ⁓ just kinda going through the motions and going through the things and then eventually getting to where you wanna be at. ⁓ then versus like people who just can understand it right away and get to you know, from eight get from A to Z just by going to A to Z versus A, B, C, D, E, and then maybe going back to B because you forgot something and then going to g and so I feel like for me it's like I needed that. I needed to go through what I g what I went through. ⁓ the heartache, just the the transitions, the deconstruction, like all that kind of stuff. 'cause yeah, like, you know, I got when I got like for real deal saved, I'm just like, man, like I gotta give everything to God, like I gotta serve, I gotta do this, this and that. and be like just be the hands and feet of God, right? And I can't do music, like all that stuff, whatever. Yeah. And so you know, and then the church doesn't there's not really like places, ⁓ like not too many churches or or people within the the church space give you that space to be creative because they just don't know how to w how that works. Yeah. Right. For sure. ⁓ for the most part. I mean, you know, I'm I'm thankful that the church that I grew up in, you know, sometimes they'd give me a platform, right? They'd let me talk every now and again, ⁓ do a little performance, do a little spoken word type thing. So that's cool, you know. give me a chance to to do all that. ⁓ you know, whatever. And so I think ⁓ First off, that's super important, right? Serve, kinda get that under your belt. Go through the ranks essentially, right? ⁓ But yeah, like I think going through like the serving, going through the preaching, going through like the teachings, ⁓ and having those under my belt allowed me to see like, okay, like this is very important to have, this is important to know. And being a creative just because I'm doing these things doesn't mean that I have to completely stop this, right? ⁓ Again, I feel like you have to go through that, man, to like really see where God wants you. Unless you just get that clear, absolute vision of like this is what God has for me. Then cool, that's great. I'm glad. I'm happy for you. ⁓ but I think for me too, I I wanted to try everything out 'cause I just might not. You know? I always I feel like I always had that. And I think because of that too, it has allowed me to be able to multitask and do the things that I can do now. Where I'm like, Yeah, I can do this, I could do that, I could do this, I could do that, I could do this. And I feel like in that too, God has shown me like You have options. You can do this or you can do that. I'm gonna bless you either way. Right? But if you decide to go here, th like then you can figure that out. But I gave you two clear paths or three clear paths, but you're still deciding to just do your own thing, right? That's diverting ⁓ and just kind of walking away from the will of God, right? Operating out of the will or yeah, operating out of the will of God versus operating out of the will of God. Mm-hmm. You feel me? Yeah. So like And I feel like I couldn't learn that unless I jumped into all these different things, right? Like I played for the band. ⁓ not it. Not your thing. I just no, I couldn't do it. It was like weird. ⁓ and then yeah, like I ch would try to teach and it's like I'm teaching out of material that's not my own material 'cause I'm going through like just Bible plans and I'm just like I

speaker-0: Teaching curriculums.

speaker-1: Curriculum theory. I'm like, I just don't feel comfortable doing that. ⁓ just wasn't my thing. And then ⁓ yeah, as I got older too, like I started serving the church and I was like on the I was on the worship team. This is when I was living in Atlanta, and this was probably the coolest thing where I was like serving as like doing outreach ministry. I was a ⁓ we would do camps, like people from ⁓ out of state or whatever would ⁓ essentially you ⁓ what do you call it? ⁓ like when you go to another country. Missions Yeah, missions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like we were like inner city mission trips is like what we would do. And so different cities would come by, different states, people from different states, whatever, different churches, ⁓ would come by. We go do ministry, whatever. And like that was part of my job, right? Like creating the itinerary and then like, you know, taking these people and hosting them and like doing the outreach with them and then like Bible study with them, praying with them and all that bro, I loved it. that was probably one some of the coolest stuff ever. And then on top of that, we were a hip hop church. So then we would do events, right? We'd put together events. We'd go to colleges and do events and that kind of stuff. And that was really cool. I wasn't always performing, like if anything, we were I was booking the performers. Like we were putting together the performers and stuff like that. And like that was really cool. ⁓ so playing just again playing behind the scenes, learning from other people. And just like just kind of learning all the different roles And then eventually when I phased out of that and like started figuring out like what I wanted to do for myself creatively and all that kind of stuff, because I'm like, I don't know if I want to do this all the time, you know, because I I feel like I'm not putting what God actually instilled in me on display. I'm doing like, you know, all these great cool things that God can still use me in, yeah. But I'm literally squandering my own talent.

speaker-0: Yeah, and stewardship with that and what he's gifted you to do.

speaker-1: Exactly. And so when I started stepping into that, bro, things started happening so fast for me. 'Cause it was like it was just like God it was just waiting for me. He's like, that's great. He's like it's like I think you're scared to like actually jump into your own thing now. It's like I didn't I didn't give you the the spirit of fear, like or to operate in fear. Mm-hmm. Like just take the step and do it. Yeah. And so in doing that, that allowed me to just have just more clarity in in in what I wanted to do musically. I f that's when I phased out of performing and just focused more on production and elevating other artists. That's how I started working with more reach people. ⁓ and then so forth and so forth, working with other artists within the within the ki the camp. ⁓ and then eventually, yeah, phasing into the the whole like writing for T V and film. A buddy of mine who I'd re who I'd worked with like years ago, like twenty thirteen like twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen era got reached out back to in like twenty six sixteen, twenty seventeen, or like twenty eighteen actually, and talking about some, hey, do you want to be a part of, you know, this thing, TV and film, there's no guarantee, blah blah blah blah blah blah, whatever. So I was like, Yeah, that sounds great. And g gave me a couple beats. I gave him some songs. And then I didn't know what happened out of that. And then eventually got some placements, started working on some more stuff. And then yeah, like twenty twenty happens. Work on some more music, obviously shut down all that kind of stuff. So everyone was like doing whatever. Yeah. And so worked on a lot of music, sent it in twenty twenty-one. You know, ⁓ I started getting placements. I started getting my first placements where ⁓ I got a placement with Red Bull, I got a placement with on All American, I got placements on MOB, I got placements on like Discovery Channel, like all these different networks. And I'm just like, whoa, like this is sick, like this is super dope. And then I'm just like cool. And so Like now, fast forward, it's like learning all the things that that like all the things that I did in these areas, like now as a mature adult, like or a maturing adult and a maturing Christian and a maturing like ⁓ musician, whatever, I'm or artist, whatever you want to call it, engineer. I'm like, dude, there's so much that I actually do have to offer for people. And it's not just in the music, it's just it's a lifestyle thing of like stewarding your talents well, stewarding your time well, and like operating in go versus in like hesitancy. Yeah. ⁓ and I feel like I can really speak into that because I know what it's like to constantly push back the will of God. And it's like. Bro, like once you start doing it, like things happen so fast. And ⁓ this is something I talked to with Brenda ⁓ a lot. Something I talked to, ⁓ a good friend of mine, Zach, and stuff like that, like just operating in in in in in like what God has graced you in. ⁓ And yeah, like it's just it's cool how how things just start to unfold. Yeah. So

speaker-0: Thanks for being an early listener of the Creative Chapel Podcast. As a new show, it means so much that you're here. Please like, subscribe, and download our episodes to keep the momentum going. And share it with a friend who could use encouragement in their creative journey. Alright, back to the show. I'd love to to hear more about that, ⁓ about operating what God has graced you in, and then ⁓ you know I'd love to after that explore ⁓ Your kinda like big career hits of like working with reach that experience and and phasing into, you know, your placements and giving giving the audience some practical advice there on how to achieve that for their own careers. Yeah. But ⁓ yeah, starting out with like just expressing more of your meditations on ⁓ operating what God has graced you.

speaker-1: Yeah, so this this was a a recent thing within the last two to three years I wanna say. I feel like sometimes we don't want to do like things that we're good at because it's not what we want to do. Right. ⁓ or like the things that like show the most fruit, right? Being the most beneficial. And it's almost like, I really don't want to do that. But it's like, but God has graced me in this area and it can get me to where I want to go. So it's it's it's now operating out of humility. Yeah. Right. So For me, I think that was just kind of the first step was like realizing that in order for me to get to what I actually want to do, I have to you I have to do things I don't wanna do. And so it's like ⁓ I really had to learn engineering, like how to really mix and engine excuse me. Really how to mix and like kinda get into that. I don't wanna mix, bro. Mixing is not fun for me. ⁓ or at least it wasn't. Now I I'm like feel I got it. It's pretty it's pretty fun now. ⁓ and like the reason being was because People need more pe people don't need more rappers. People don't need more ⁓ performers. Like they need more engineers. They need more ⁓ videographers, editors, like all those kind of things. I am just a producer. I'm not gonna show my full songs, I'm not gonna try to write a hook, I'm not gonna try to like show off I'm just here to play beats. Or if I get invited to the studio as, ⁓ this is the homie, I'm just the homie. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not a writer, I'm not a producer, I'm not any of the I am just the homie. And I learned in operating like that in your roles, when people start to ask you questions, or when people like and or ⁓ yeah, like and you're able to share some type of knowledge and they're like, Whoa, like how do you know that? It's like, ⁓ you know, I you know, I produce or whatever. It's like, ⁓ what, what, like, play your beats. All of a sudden, exactly, and then you become the most interesting person in that room because

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: Like, ⁓ I didn't even know this guy did that. So now you have a like that it's that showmanship now, right? Like that performing. So that it's like, ⁓ because I'm a performer, this actually works in my favor because now I'm about to show you some beats and I'm about to sell it to you because I'm a performer. Like I'm gonna perform or I can make a beat from scratch. I'm a performer. So it's like so

speaker-0: It makes me think about in ⁓ I think it's a little bit in Proverbs and and Jesus ⁓ mentions it. ⁓ I'm I can't really remember the the exact verses right now, but ⁓ when when Jesus is talking about ⁓ you know don't don't automatically go for the the right seat of the host at the dinner table. ⁓ wait to be called.

speaker-1: Right.

speaker-0: And let him call you forward and give you honor that way. and so both both in terms of like how that plays into our relationship with God, but like there's so many times that I feel like the parables ⁓ and lessons that Jesus taught are ⁓ multifaceted, you Right. It's like looking into a diamond. It's like you think you know the shape of it, but once you look into it, there's so much more to reveal. ⁓ so that's what that makes me think of is like the you know, the humility of like I'm just going to come in I'm gonna this is kinda my arena over here at the end of the table. And it if the host wants to to bring me up then, you know, I'll let him bring me that honor, but I'm not gonna seek it.

speaker-1: Exactly. Well, do like I've met so many people that bro, they get they get upset. Like, man, I got ⁓ I never get invited to reach or I never get let me not say that. I never get invited to these places, I never get impl invited to these ⁓ to the rooms and this isn't that. I know people who are plugged in and it's just like they never give me an opportunity, I don't get invited and it's just like, bro, that attitude alone is why you don't get invited. Whether you share that or not, bro, like people can read that off of you. Also, if that is how your mindset is, bro, God's not gonna honor you in that. And like, or like you're not gonna honor God with that. Like it's just so it's just like that attitude and that mindset alone, I feel like is it it it like cuts you from that kind of stuff. And ⁓ yeah, like I'd give me I'm like, dude, like, where's your identity at? Cause it's like the fact that you're letting this stuff bug you so much, it's like I don't know. And it's like, ⁓ well, you could say that 'cause you got in the room. I'm like, bruh, you ⁓ you wanna know how I got in the room? I'm like, I was ⁓ I was sweeping and serving the my pastor at my church and I didn't realize he was plugged into these network of people. And one day he goes, Yo, you want to go to the studio? And I was like, Sure, whatever. I didn't even know what studio he was talking about. Next thing you know, we pull up to Reach Records and I'm just like, ⁓ my God. Holy crap. And I was hella depressed like at that time. Like I had that's when I had just moved from from Michigan.

speaker-0: And then Sweeping floors to reach.

speaker-1: ⁓ 'cause I was on my way home to Florida and I stopped in Atlanta, met up with some friends, and ⁓ met with this pastor and then he was like, I think God is call telling you to stay. I wanna mentor you. I was like, dude, heck yeah, of course. Like whatever. ⁓ there's so much more to it than this. Like this is actually a major part of my testimony too. But ⁓ and where like God spoke to me. ⁓ and but anyways

speaker-0: I mean you can lean into it. I wouldn't you know I wouldn't mind

speaker-1: So okay. ⁓ so when I left Michigan, first of all, like I was in like a crazy mind state. Like it was it was depressing. It was it was ridiculous. ⁓ I had just got my I had gotten my car repoed, ⁓ got it back, but then like also in the midst of all that too, like I was in this really crazy relationship and it just was not good. ⁓ it was just absolutely horrible. And then Just kind of felt like I like I just I didn't feel I felt very alone, very like just not in the right headspace. So I was ready to go back home. So I'm on my way on my way back home, I start talking to God and I'm just like, God, these are like I think I need to go back home. I would all this stuff. I was like, I don't know what you want me to do. Like, ⁓ I'm gonna be stopping in these places and if you want me to stay, I'll stay. But this is how I'm gonna know you want me to stay. You're gonna provide bro, like I was very bold, very bold with my ask. I'm like, Lord, I need a mentor. Lord, I need a job. Lord, I need to be accepted into a community immediately. Lord, I need to find a church immediately. Like all these things. If you want me to stay anywhere that I'm going, this is what I need. And then also the last thing I was like, and I need and I need approval from my mom. Like I want my mom, like when I talk to her, like to not question me, like, why don't you just come home? I like I need that that like permission from my mom. Yeah. And like to feel that peace. So I was like, here's my list, God. Mm-hmm. So I stopped in Tennessee 'cause ⁓ yeah, no people there. So stayed there for a couple of days. That was cool. Didn't get that. And then

speaker-0: Makes a a lot of sense for a musician to go to Sure. Yeah. You know, Tennessee and Nashville area. I don't know if Nashville is exactly where you're at. We had some fun with Aaron Dewes in that area. Right. Shout out to Aaron Dewes. ⁓

speaker-1: So yeah, like, yeah, it would have been a great spot. ⁓ but no. And then ⁓ went to Atlanta and then met up with my buddy and then I think I was just there for like a couple of days and he's like, ⁓ come to my church and I was like Sure. Went to his church and then bro. Like th like one like one through four was already checked off immediately. I was immediately welcomed. People like first of all people knew who I was, ⁓ just because it was a hip hop church. Which I didn't even know what that really meant. Yeah. ⁓ well, kind of. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

speaker-0: I know of one of those in Michigan. I probably am like a little f yeah. Fuzzy with beacon light.

speaker-1: Yeah, uh-huh, exactly. So so this is like I was familiar with it, but like, you know, not too famili I wasn't familiar with this one per se. ⁓ because I'm familiar with the Tampa and I was familiar with Grand Rapids, but I wasn't familiar with Atlanta's. So he invites me, it's it's cool, it's a vibe, great service, great word. I felt like God really spoke to me and like it was just fire, it was good stuff. And so I went up to the pastor and I was just like Hey man, you're worried you know actually no, this is actually a all another embarrassing story. So we can go back. ⁓ so in 2018, I had won a beat battle and ⁓ in Tampa in ⁓ in their ⁓ hip hop church, ⁓ crossover. And so ⁓ the guy who hosted the beat battle, his name's Scott Free. So that's who was the pastor of this church in Atlanta. Wow. So I was like, so after service, I went up to him. I was like, yo, Scott, what's good, bro? Like, nice to see you again. That blah blah blah blah blah. Whatever. I just, you know, I'm actually moving from from Michigan. I'm heading my my my way back to Florida. Bro, I just immediately just started like word vomiting. And like all he said was, What's up, man? Whatever. So ⁓ I'm like just telling him all this stuff. I was like, dude, your word was so powerful, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Bruh, and then he goes, I'm so sorry, man. Remind me your name again. And I was just like, bro. I was like, Avila, whatever. He goes, okay, have we we've met before? I was like, ⁓ my God. I was like, bro, yes. I was like, you were the host, this, this, and that. Like, you got my name wrong. And he goes, Avi Lo. I was like, Yep, exactly. He's like, Man, I'm so sorry. Like, he's like, I just, you know, whatever. And I didn't care. I was like, it was, but it was funny to me. And then, anyways, he's like, he then initiates.

speaker-0: Right.

speaker-1: Man, ⁓ I would love to have a sit-down with you and just talk, like just talk about life, whatever. ⁓ what are you doing, you know, next week, this day? I was like, ⁓ like I'm probably gonna be back in Florida or whatever. He's like, I would advise you stick around for a little bit. Just off a whim. And I was like, okay, cool. So I stay with my boy for a little bit and then ⁓ go to my meeting with with ⁓ Scott. And bro, it was just it was so crazy, man, because The like the last thing on my checklist was a mentor and as we're talking and stuff like that and he goes he's like I don't do this a lot ⁓ because he's a busy guy too. Like I didn't realize how busy this guy was and like all the stuff that he was involved in. ⁓ but like he sits there and he tells me how he's like he's like God just told me that I need to mentor you. Bro Bruh, like I teared up.

speaker-0: Wow.

speaker-1: I was just like, ⁓ my god. He's like, and I think you need to stay here in Atlanta. Bruh, I was just like, What? I and I I told him I was like, Do you don't understand? Like, that's literally like what I've asked for. And I was like, I need to make I was like, hold on, I need to step out real quick. I'm like, I need to make a phone call. So I called my mom. And I was just like, ⁓ hey, she's like, yeah, where you at? I was like, I know, I'm like two weeks late. I was like, I was supposed to be home two weeks ago. And she's like, ⁓ okay. She's like, where are you at now? I was like, ⁓ I'm in Atlanta. She's like, Atlanta. I was like, yeah, you know, whatever. I was like, ⁓ I think God wants me to stay in Atlanta. I was like, but how do you feel about that? And usually I feel like she would have just responded with like ⁓ ⁓ I don't know. I think it's you know, you can do whatever you want, but I think you should like come home, you know, and you know, all that kind of stuff. Bro, she was just like, if God is telling you to stay, stay. Like, I would hate for she and then she goes, I would hate for you to live in the what if. Like, what if I would have stayed? Wow. And I was just like, dude. Yes, bro. And like my mom don't just like she'd be dropping gems every now and again.

speaker-0: That's powerful.

speaker-1: But it's like mixed in with some like some trauma like like type statements or so. Right. you know, some com some side comments, ⁓ you know, some hurtful hurtful ⁓ things attached to it. But dude, when she said that I was just like, Wow, all right, mom, yeah, okay, cool. So ended up saying that in Atlanta. Yeah, bro, so I think just th that was that was a like a moment for me, like unknowingly of operating in where God has graced me in, where just being obedient and saying yes. like to the things that you see a clear path to that the Lord has given you. There's there was peace, answered prayers and like confirmation. And it's like sometimes we'll still see that and be like, I don't know. And it's like why what are you questioning? Like, go. You're scared. Mm-hmm. Which is it's a scary thing. Anyways, so I did it. It was great. It was fantastic for what it was at the time. And then eventually I felt God like 'cause the thing is too, like, you don't always have to stay. Like sometimes God wants you to go and move and grow and do different things. And He has you in areas and moments for for that season. ⁓ and then you sometimes just outgrow it. And so essentially outgrew it, you know, and then but I was there for two years. It was great. It was it was great. ⁓ and then eventually had to come back home and same thing, just operating out of, you know, obedience, I felt God calling me, telling me to go home. And be with my family. In March of 2020, we we did a conference as a as a team. We went down to Orlando, funny enough, and then they went back to Atlanta. I stayed in Orlando to be with my family for a little bit, and then the world shut down. So then I was there till September of 2020. Moved back to to Atlanta in September. And then that's when I started working with Wande or Anike.

speaker-0: It's just so cool how God has woven your story into, you know, coming out of depression, you having like kind of a list of demands, you know, in a a harsh way to put it. Yeah. And being like, God, like, I need this, this and this and this if that ain't happening, like, then, you know, it's just the plan is to go home. Yeah. ⁓ and then him being like, Okay, like see what I do. ⁓ and I think that's just a a great testimony of like just encouraging faith, encouraging that God cares about your journey, your journey into him, your journey as a creative, as a R like like we said, like the the the rap church culture, even as someone who's in the culture, you're like I can rattle off, you know, just a few off the top of my head. ⁓ you know, it's not that ⁓ that large in the country. And so for you to just kind of like wind up at a spot where somebody who wants to mentor you wants to invest into you and that opens doors for you is is just an awesome testimony of what God can do. I'd love to hear a little bit more about ⁓ your involvement at Reach. I mean you've worked with Anike, you've worked with Holby, you've worked with Tadashi. ⁓ I'd love to to get some stories out of that and and your experience and and how those doors open for you. Yeah. How organic, how strategic it was.

speaker-1: Absolutely.

speaker-0: ⁓ if it was all on God, if there was some of you strategically placing yourself in the areas. So

speaker-1: Yeah, so ⁓ the Anike situation, my I had friends who were working with her already, ⁓ in Arizona and ⁓ like they were some of my best friends and they I had gone to Arizona in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen was the first time and that was the first time I I met them in person 'cause I was friends with them for forever, dude. ⁓ just via online. ⁓ I think like through Twitter and I guess not even Instagram, I don't think.

speaker-0: Did some of these guys make appearances on ⁓ that sophomore album that you guys made? I know you had some friends on

speaker-1: Yeah yeah ⁓ Architect. Yeah. 'Cause it was Chuck and ⁓ and Jared. So they were like my best friends and and it's funny 'cause I didn't even know them. Like met them in real life. And I rem yeah, twenty eighteen was the first time I met them in real life and ⁓ it was a lot of fun and then I think twenty nineteen I came back and then we just ⁓ worked on a bunch of stuff.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: And at the time too, they were also working with with Wande or ⁓ Anike now. And ⁓ 'cause I guess she had heard of them and like wanted to work with them. And so they did a song with them. The ⁓ I Gotta Live was the one. That was a really great song. So like right. ⁓ and the gas station with like the yeah. So so that was that one. And then

speaker-0: That's a bot. Yeah, music video too.

speaker-1: From there, they were able to build the relationship. So I kind of just like rode off of that wave. ⁓ because I we had worked on a batch of beats, and she had cut a demo to one of the beats, and I was like, ⁓ my gosh, like this is so dope. This is like this is incredible. She had just gotten signed and reached records, like, ⁓ my gosh, this is gonna be so cool, like whatever. And then we didn't really hear much from it. And then ⁓ find out that it's the song that has RG and ⁓ Big Deal. So ⁓ that was cool. And then

speaker-0: Sold up RG and No Big Deal and Anike all wrap into a beat that you

speaker-1: That yeah, that me and Chuck me, Chuck and Jared, so me and Architect had made. Yeah. Nice. So it was super sick, super dope. ⁓

speaker-0: How's it feel when you like just hear that? Like these

speaker-1: It's dope, man. It was cool, man. It was it was it was a really surreal moment. I was really excited to like hear her vocals on that. And I was like, ⁓ my god, I made this beat. My tag was in there. Like it's still on it. So it's like you just hear the intro, ⁓ Vila. Yeah. Architect. And then it just goes into it. ⁓ and that to me was just like it was super dope. And so with that, I think like she ended up having she ha like would have events or whatever, and I think I met her at one of the events, just said what's up to her and I was like, ⁓ my god, hey, I'm the one who produced, you know, so and so, whatever. And she's like, ⁓ that's dope. Like, you know, that's late, you know, great to meet you. But like off rip, she was super cool, super chill. ⁓ probably most authentic, like cool person like cool people I've ever coolest person I've ever met ⁓ within the space. And so like Yeah, I just kinda just met or whatever. And then when I moved to Atlanta I had reached out to her and I was just like, yo, I'm in Atlanta, like it'd be dope to like link up or whatever. And she's like, Yeah, like let's let's let's link up. Whatever. So, but that happens later. ⁓ so when I moved to Atlanta serving under ⁓ my pastor, ⁓ my mentor, whatever. ⁓ yeah, like w one random day after just serving and whatever. ⁓ it was late night and he goes, Yo, I'm about to stop by the studio, ⁓ if you wanna come by or if you wanna come with me. And I was just like in my I was What studio? He's like, Do you wanna come or not? And I was just like, Yes, like sure, whatever. And then yeah, that's when we pull into Reach Records and at the time he was managing Holvey.

speaker-0: Your pastor is managing whole?

speaker-1: Yeah. So he was manage like mentoring and managing whole

speaker-0: And this is

speaker-1: Yeah. So this is like pre Like, I don't think he was announced yet that he that he was signed. ⁓

speaker-0: So he's he is managing impastering at the same time.

speaker-1: Yeah. So he di I told you, he did a lot. Yeah. He did a lot. So he he was more like a mentor slash like y yeah, like mentor slash managing. Yeah, in a sense.

speaker-0: I'm gonna have to have him on the pod. Sounds dope. Yeah.

speaker-1: Scott? Yeah. That'd be dope. I mean if he ever pulls up.

speaker-0: We'll do it virtually. So your pastor connects you, he he lets you know that

speaker-1: Huh. Brings me yeah, bring doesn't even say reach, he's just a studio. I was like, Okay, cool, whatever. ⁓ so he brings me in and I'm just like, ⁓ my god, I'm at Reach Records, bro. I was just like, What the frick? I was like, ⁓ my god, this is so crazy. And then we go into one of the sessions and it's Hovey. ⁓ it was Hovey and Carvello. And so No, I had no idea who he was.

speaker-0: Did you know Holby at the time that

speaker-1: I had no idea who anybody was. I was just like in that room. I was just like, ⁓ cool, this is so sick. ⁓ cool. I like And you know, they're talking, whatever. I meet him for the first time, dab him up, whatever. And then they kinda chilled for a little bit. I think Ace had walked in. He's the head ANR. ⁓ and then I'm trying to think who else. I think that was it. And then that was kind of it. We left. Like we chilled for a little bit and then we left. And then I was just like, ⁓ my god, that was crazy. And then March comes along, we do the we go to the Orlando thing. I end up being in Orlando for a little bit, pandemic. ⁓ so now I'm stuck in Orlando till September. September I end up going back to Georgia, to At Atlanta. And then as soon as I got back, bro, gas on the ⁓ foot on the pedal, I reached out to ⁓ to Anika and I was like, yo, I'm back in town, like we should work, whatever. The following week, ⁓ I'm at Reach and I'm working with her. And we start working on a bunch of stuff. And then ⁓ one of the sessions, I guess RG was there too. He comes out of his s session and you know, he jumps into the into like our studio and then I meet him for the first time.

speaker-0: Which is funny 'cause I remember you telling a story one time that you got mistaken for.

speaker-1: Yeah, like bro, it's so funny because then now ⁓ we ended up getting the same we ended up we ended up having the same barber and I remember like he turned like ⁓ my barber was cutting up and he's ⁓ yeah you can come in and I go and I sit down he turns the chair and it's RG and I was just like ⁓ what's up right he was What's up twin? It's so it was just so funny because I was just like bro you know like people always be saying he's like yeah bro it happens like whatever that was a super cool moment and then yeah it just kind of builds from there like we work we ended up working on a ton of music And I think only like two songs really came out of it. But it was just like we had a really dope ⁓ friendship build out of that. ⁓ and then yeah, just life kinda happens. I get plugged into just a a huge network of like Atlanta talent. I I did have some moments to work with st ⁓ work on stuff with one K few as well. No nice. Nothing really panned out. ⁓ But then I work like I said, just started working with other people as and and all that kind of stuff. ⁓ and ⁓ Yeah, man. I mean I don't know how where else to go with that, but ⁓ and then I guess with Hovey, Hovey ends up kind of coming back around and ⁓ because of ⁓ we started opening up a studio at the church, ⁓ that was essentially gonna be my main role was to ⁓ h have a development ⁓ type the educational type thing where inner city kids can come and record and we're teaching them how to do the things. Yeah. ⁓

speaker-0: ⁓ keeping out of trouble.

speaker-1: Give ⁓ something to do, you know? And then and then educate them and all that kind of stuff. So in doing that, ⁓ like Hovey would come out and and visit and 'cause he would do outreach as well. And then eventually like he got in the studio, like I was like, ⁓ yeah, you know, I got the studio here or whatever. I guess like Reach was booked up or something. And then he brings a bunch of people over. ⁓ well, this is for the last song. Anyways, ⁓ that's another time. But ⁓ one of the other times I was in the studio with him, ⁓ another engineer, and I think that was it. And I helped like we're songwriting. So I helped I helped songwriter for no ninth grade. And then that was off of his ⁓ first project, Christopher. And then on his and then ⁓ we had another session where he had come to the studio to to our studio, the studio that I had set up and ⁓ He had a bunch of people over. It was like Ecleso, ⁓ Tori Deshaun. ⁓ nice. And have been it as far as like artist and then there's like some other people there too and that's when we worked on beautiful and so I engineered it and then helped write it. So did that one and then those were my two withholdings.

speaker-0: Now something that you're in right now, ⁓ that you're finding a lot of fruit in is getting placement with big companies. Yeah. and and popular brands that everybody knows. I mean, Fortnite's using your music, commercials starring ⁓ Tom Brady are using your music. You you mentioned Red Bull, you mentioned some of these other huge companies. And these are these are areas and arenas that like you don't even see these you know well-known, well-established Christian artists getting a lot of placement. The the biggest placement I can think of is like ⁓ LaCrae's This Is America being used in One Night in Miami, ⁓ the trailer for that movie. ⁓ and so I feel like with the experience that you've had currently, the sex the success that you've had recently would be very valuable to all kinds of musicians. For sure. even outside of the rap scene. And so how are how did you get into that space And how can other musicians ⁓ kinda like follow in those footsteps and get into places where these big brands are are interested in using their their songs for placement?

speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ like I said, I I had a friend who had reached out to me saying like they're working on stuff. I sent him music and ⁓ it kind of just that's essentially kind of just how it did how it happened. ⁓ It was honestly God just giving me an opportunity. ⁓ but for anybody trying to get into it, I mean if you're seeing this and you're here and you're seeing me on the podcast and I'm attached to it, reach out to me. So it's like Just reaching out, reaching out to people, yeah, like and not being scared. Like, but then also being prepared. Like, I think the biggest thing that I the biggest way that I ⁓ wasn't able to ⁓ l lock in opportunities was because I wasn't ready. Like I would r reach out to people and whenever they were like, Okay, cool, send me stuff, sure, I didn't have anything to send. Yeah. And it's like why are you reaching out if you ain't got nothing to send or nothing to show for so

speaker-0: Yeah. So it's like we get a lot of that in the video world too.

speaker-1: Right, for sure. It's like, ⁓ yeah, like I'm aspi I'm an aspiring film editor, director, whatever, blah blah blah blah blah and then it's like, Cool, show me your work, show me your portfolio. ⁓ I don't have anything yet. That's what I'm like trying to find.

speaker-0: The only reason why I was really able to to really lock in some work with Ruslan. It's like just through work with you in flight school, ⁓ work with some hardcore bands like American Arson in in Metro Detroit, like because of that work, that's the only reason why I was able to to actually like get work with established people that I was a fan of that I was interested in.

speaker-1: Right, exactly. Cause it's like how do you ex you're expecting this company or like these people to like to take you in when first of all they don't even need you. So it's like you gotta be able to provide something that is actually useful. ⁓ Yeah, it provides value and like not to be harsh, but it's like it's business, right? Like that's what it is. Like if you're trying to if you're trying to get your song or you're trying to get whatever your work with this company, like you have to show that you you are about your business.

speaker-0: Provides value.

speaker-1: And

speaker-0: And you can be about you can be about your business and be about the kingdom. Absolutely. I think there's this big movement, like Ruslan touches on this a lot. ⁓ and there's a lot of Christian entrepreneurs coming out of the shadows and talking about this more of like there's been past movements that I could say maybe link this to maybe a a Jesus people type of movement that was very, you know, coming out of hippie culture and you we're in the epicenter of that in in Southern California right now.

speaker-1: Yeah,

speaker-0: But ⁓ I think we're coming into a season where Christians are are acknowledging the marketplace, seeing that in scripture and places like Proverbs and and being empowered to to be about the business and be about the kingdom simultaneously. For sure. And then with creatives, it's so important that when God calls you to operate in your vocation, like we use this word vocation a lot in the church and pastors are either, you know, bivocational, meaning that they're doing pastoral and work. ⁓ but it's you know, the marketplace is just as much a a calling and a fertile ground to ⁓ do the Lord's work as much as the four walls of the church. ⁓ and so yeah, just continue on with with talking about that.

speaker-1: Yeah, and that I mean that's essentially it, man. Just having your business together too and just being ready. Like if you're gonna be asking for opportunities, like you gotta be ready. You gotta you gotta have ⁓ your pitch and then you gotta have the the material, the the product. ⁓ and just being ready for that. Cause ⁓ what is it like ⁓ when preparation meets opportunity, it's like bro, like you're you're out of here.

speaker-0: That's luck.

speaker-1: So ⁓ yeah, so I honestly that's that's it. Like that's that would be my advice ⁓ for anybody just trying to get into it. Like if you're seeing this and you and you see my handle attached, reach out to me. Hey, saw your video, ⁓ you know, heard what you said, would love to like get some work, but you gotta make sure you got work because I'm busy. Like, not to like sound like a jerk or anything, but it's just like, bro, I like I got my network of people. Yeah. You know, if you but if you're like, yo, I'm ready, I got this ready, I got this and that ready, I got music, I got this, I you know, show me that you've tried to do something and you're not just looking for a handout. Yeah. Cause if you're just looking for a handout, you're no one's gonna want to work with you. ⁓ that's just you know, the industry, that's just the business. ⁓ But outside of that, you gotta build your own thing. So yeah, just like post content, post music, right? do your research. Do your due diligence and do some research. ⁓ look up ⁓ companies, look up brands.

speaker-0: So are you reaching out to companies directly? How are you getting your stuff?

speaker-1: So at first I was sending music to the to my friends who were already plugged in. Cause I'm like, I don't know nothing about it. And then eventually I'm like, well, I want to start seeing like actual money from this. ⁓ because I'm sending them stuff and then ⁓ they're paying me out, but I'm like, I'm trying to get paid out directly and like not have so many splits. Yeah, for sure. And so ⁓ I took a course ⁓ actually from Diraj. It it it was ⁓ I forgot what it was called at first, but he changed it now. ⁓ now it's called rep Indie. And great community. The number one thing or the next thing, ⁓ other than having your stuff ready and doing your research is get plugged into a community ASAP. And there are so many communities out there. ⁓ not all of them are good, but ⁓ the three communities I would recommend are ⁓ rep Indy. There's one from a guy named Clint Music, I don't know the name. But it's like really big for producers and really good. And then there's another guy, ⁓ his name's Will. And he has another what's his called? I forgot, but I just know Ripendi for sure. But those are three guys that have great communities and ⁓ f all all within for the sync space. And ⁓ I was a part of Clint's as well as a producer, and I was able to get myself into a library because of just learning the things that I learned from being a part of that community. ⁓ that's actually the the plugins that I use that I got from that community and just like the tips that I got from that community are the reason that I got the ⁓ the Tom Brady Pizza Hut commercial. So it's like, you know what I mean? So

speaker-0: What kind of like returns are you seeing from those kind of placements? Are you seeing some decent cap

speaker-1: So yeah, so the library so there's different ways. So you have library music, which is which I'll talk about that. Essentially you're going in a deal with a a a library publishing music. Sure, yeah. So artless music bed and ⁓ what's the other ones? Well you just use those two for now. You have art

speaker-0: Less. But epidemic sound is something that we've

speaker-1: Right. So you have those those are like more ⁓ microsync. So that's more subscription based. That's more like for people like you, ⁓ to people who are like who do make big commercial brand ads. ⁓ so that's subscription based. You can go in and look for the music you wanna use, plug and play. ⁓ that's cool. So it's it's kinda like that, but a little so that one is a better f for the artist because the artist actually they upload directly and then they can ⁓ they receive a bigger portion of those cuts. Nice. Right. ⁓ when you go when you get plugged into like the bigger libraries, ⁓ so like there's BMG ⁓ PM, there's ⁓ APM, there's Extreme Music, there's Warner Chapel, there's like all these big, big, big, big li music libraries. And so essentially these are the big libraries that most major supervisors use, most television companies use and all that stuff, big brands. And so you kind of go into a partnership with them and they get their cut. So it's like a 50-50 deal for the most part. And where they're collecting publishing, but and they're also collecting ownership. So essentially they own the record. So like library sometimes doesn't sound like appealing because you don't really get a lot of front end. You get mostly back end. So that's catalog. you gotta pretty much send them a ton of music. Yeah. ⁓ and then eventually it'll start to hit ⁓ like for residual income. So like now after six years of doing this, ⁓ having maybe between sixty to seventy songs, I think, working for me, ⁓ I'm now starting to see bigger checks ⁓ every like three to four months. Nice. So where I'm like taking care of for at least a month or two of my expenses. So ⁓ That's the kind of returns I'm seeing from that. Then there's music, ⁓ there's the microsync ⁓ or micro libraries like Music Bed and all those stuff. The cool thing with with Music Bed, they pay monthly, so that's pretty cool. Nice. ⁓ so I get that. And then 'cause I have music through them, ⁓ from another artist that I work with, ⁓ Tosh. And then ⁓ there's agencies where you're sending music to the agencies and then they send the music out to their ⁓ clients and then you kinda just hope you hit it. And so I've gotten pretty big checks off of those where those are like the bigger upfront deals where you're getting the sync fee, which ⁓ like one of them I got seven thousand dollars, another one I got eight thousand dollars. ⁓ one of them went for, you know, three thousand, two thousand. Some of them are some of them are like on the shorter, like five hundred dollars, six hundred dollars. You know, stuff like that, but it all starts to add up.

speaker-0: Like dependent on the budget of the shoot then of the commercial.

speaker-1: Yeah. What's the yeah, like what's the use for it? So like one in twenty twenty three was for ⁓ wildcard weekend. And they used it just for that one day, just for that one ⁓ it was like on Peacock and NBC. So it was like on TV for the day and it was on the live stream. And I think ⁓ it was that one we got paid out seven thousand dollars. And then if they would have r kept running it for the week, it was like for every week it was another seven thousand. So if they would ran it for a month, like that would have been crazy. So that would have been what, like twenty-four or whatever? I can't do math. Twenty eight, twenty eight thousand dollars. ⁓ So probably more. Anyways, or no, just about that. So yeah, single to say like pretty pretty nice returns. And so at this point now it's like I'm continuously building my my ⁓ library catalog because I want residual income. Like I'm trying to get to the point where

speaker-0: You've been pretty.

speaker-1: I don't gotta do nothing no more, you know, or if I do, it's out of like love and passion and just like, you know, I don't gotta be all like, I gotta try to meet these deadlines and stuff like that, and then you know, all that kind of stuff. But But yeah, man, I love it. It's cool. ⁓ And yeah, I'm a I'm a I'm a open book to that. And I always try to invite people to work, but like I say, you gotta be ready, so yeah.

speaker-0: Well, super generous of you to just like kinda open up your DMs to people who want to learn. ⁓ 'cause, you know, there's th that's something that can easily be gate kept, you know. A hundred percent. And I'm sure there are plenty of people who who do gatekeep that. ⁓ and you know, sometimes it's warranted of like you got the person who's not prepared. Of course. And and that's just like, hey man, you're just not ready. And so come back when you are.

speaker-1: And then use it as a teaching moment. You know, I'm a big believer of like, bro, you gotta have you gotta have the person above you that you're learning from. You gotta have the people that are your equals that you're sharpening that you're building with, and then you gotta have the people that you're building up. Cause like you and then just keeps the cycle going. ⁓ so that's why like, you know, I wish I was given that opportunity. And I was, you know what I mean? Like eventually. Yeah, you know, but it's like if anybody wants to ask and have questions, it's like, yeah, of course, like I want everybody to win. You know, I can get you through the door, I can't keep you in the room. That's up to you. Yeah. So

speaker-0: If you're someone who loves apparel that shows your creative side while sharing your faith, I've just the thing for you. Our sponsor, the Printing Ox, has hooked us up with some t-shirts I designed that we're planning to launch later this summer. If you want to support the show, go ahead and pre-order one of the shirts. It has the Creative Chapel logo on the front, and on the back it says you were made to create, with the scripture of Revelation 4.11 underneath. You might even recognize the design from our backdrop here at the studio. If you'd like to pre-order a shirt, visit the link in our description. And if you have any t-shirt needs for your church, business, or event, make sure to hit up my buddy Forrest at the PrintingOx. He does everything with quality and exemplifies the Creative Chapel spirit. Visit his link in the description as well. Alright, back to the show. So we've talked a little about Christians in business. You know, I think in general, the the whole like starving artist shtick. is just a psyop against creatives. Like it's it's the business people manipulating the creatives to be like, you can't do business. You don't want to do business. You're an artist. Artists should focus on the art. And then the artists are like, yeah, I should only focus on the art. And then they get ⁓ manipulated and they get you know abused for their for talent and their work. ⁓ and so what are some what are some things that you feel like Christian artists need to outgrow that follow they could follow that path of like, you know, the the dynamic between business and art, and faith even, ⁓ or even just some other ideas that you have towards things that that Christian creatives need to outgrow.

speaker-1: Yeah. Man, so I don't think I don't think you're gonna like I don't know if you'll like my answer. I don't know if the people will like my answer. Is I I have a simple answer to it, bro. And I think it's kill the ego and don't let it be your identity. I think Christian creatives need to kill the identity or or the idea that what you do is what gives you your identity. Get in the word, talk to God. And ask him to give you direction, right? And then operate in that. Don't let that don't let this thing be your identity. Let wh who God calls you be your identity. Yeah. And operate in that. Because when you start to do that, it flows into everything else you do. ⁓ and that's kind of it to that, because that's just that's what's helped me. Yeah. You know? And then that's what's also has not helped me, because I'm operating out of identity and ego. Towards the things. Yeah.

speaker-0: I think I think you embody that very well. ⁓ you know, you're you're very humble, like you're you're willing to find income in just normal places, like you're not trying to like ⁓ finesse music into like this is solely this is the only like very strict only way I'm going to make money. Right. ⁓ which I think is just healthy, ⁓ as a creative too, to to be willing to say like I'm gonna be humble. If if if my art can sustain me, great. God you know, has blessed that. ⁓ and if there's seasons where that can't happen, then you know, I'll just trust God and go with that too. Yeah. And we, you know, we we mentioned like by vocational pastors as well. It's like that's not s that's not foreign to the ministers either in the four walls of the church. Right. So, ⁓ yeah, I think that's complete transparency. I struggle with that. ⁓ like like, you know, I'm trying to get Something like this to pop off and trying to get a feature-linked film or just video work in general. And it's tough to to accept, kill that ego that's like, I'm a filmmaker. I am yeah, I am a a a talented creative. I my work should be able to sustain me. Right. and you know, I think it every strong creative that is a reality if you're willing to learn some new skills and some business skills. But yeah. But even in the midst of that is like even the even business people feel. Even business guys have to go work a pizza job and and sustain their business by doing something else. Yeah. And so yeah, I think what you said is a a powerful word and a word that needs to be said. ⁓ and I think it's something that like, you know, a lot of creatives probably know, but, you know, it's the hard implementation.

speaker-1: Exactly.

speaker-0: Which I think you practice what you preach there.

speaker-1: I try, man. I try. I mean, you know, I feel like I feel like I do have to preface it because If music is your soul like if you've gotten to a point where or your whatever you do creatively has been your soul providing thing, it it does get a little harder to like kill that ego and like kill the identity to it. ⁓ you know, or for the people that are like, I know I'm built for greatness and stuff like that and it's just like, you know, cool. Like or like, ⁓ you just sound like somebody who just like you just gave up on stuff and Right, yeah, and it's like, I don't know, man. I'm like, I get some pretty decent music checks coming in. So I'm like, I don't know. You know, but it's like it's not because I just got that handed to me. It's like I worked for that kind of stuff, you know, like I put in I put in my time, I put in my hours. I've gone through the phase of where that was my identity and like that's all I cared about. And when I achieved peak of whatever I thought was gonna be peak of whatever, I was I felt the loneliest I'd ever been. I was super depressed. And I felt like everybody just wanted me for my talent and nobody actually wanted me for me. Mm-hmm. I felt very overlooked. I felt very it's weird. It's a weird thing. You get to the top of the you get to the top of the mountain and realize it's lonely up here. Cause yeah, I didn't bring anybody with me, 'cause I was just me, me, me, me, me. And so anyways, yeah, man, kill the ego. ⁓ and I again I try to do that every day. I try, you know, I try my best to to to practice that because Yeah, I mean and of course, you know, I do have a regular job, you know. ⁓ been working in hospitality and sometimes I hate it. Most of the times I hate it. but it's like I'm still serving people in a way, in a roundabout way, right? Giving good customer service, guest service, all that kind of stuff. ⁓

speaker-0: And you're still finding success in your art. Not like, you know, you're not like bone out like Justin Bieber or something, but like your art is bringing in income, which is more than I would say a lot of musicians can say. Right. And without having to like kill themselves overdoing a gig or or have to like sacrifice their family in order to, you know, do that. ⁓ and so, you know, I still think that's like it's like, hey, any any work that ⁓

speaker-1: Exactly.

speaker-0: Any music that can bring in some like decent change that puts for savings that's success. You know, within your vast network of who you've been connected to, you know, you've got to do a little bit of of like you said, ⁓ urban ministry and in urban min ⁓ urban missions. ⁓ and you've connected with some people in the secular world as much as in

speaker-1: Absolutely. Missions.

speaker-0: ⁓ the church. You know, what are what are your thoughts on collaborating with ⁓ people outside of the church in in secular spaces?

speaker-1: I think it depends on what it is. I think because obviously I don't think you should be giving everybody a platform. ⁓ I don't agree with that. ⁓ especially if you know what your platform is, right? If my platform is and I know it's like believers and stuff like that. I'm not gonna just like bring somebody who's not a believer and like give them my platform and then people can like. cause people to stumble or to cause people to like whatever. ⁓ so I don't you know, it's yeah, I don't know. I feel like 'cause even like when I work for these companies, like, they're not Christian. Yeah. So it's like I'm working with them because they're gonna give me a check. You know what I mean? So it's like, you know

speaker-0: And with that too, it's like, I mean, you're wearing Converse, I'm wearing Vans. ⁓ you know, these are companies that we use day in and day out. Yeah. ⁓ you know, so I feel if you if you can shed your light into such a you know place that's either a huge nationwide global company or ⁓ you know, just sharing the light with a talented artist who it's like, well

speaker-1: Sure, right. Sure.

speaker-0: Maybe maybe they just need to like see the spark of Christ. ⁓ like I'm gonna have my boundaries and I'm gonna build my boundaries very strong. and I'm gonna make it known that it's like, Hey, I'm about Jesus, like you know

speaker-1: Exactly. I think ultimately, ultimate, like if I'm gonna give anybody, this is why I say it depends. If I'm giving anybody a speaking role, I gotta make sure your heart's at least in the right space. Or I preface it like, hey, we're still figuring out our journeys. Like, you know, I'd love to hear your story and your testimony, right? Now, if I'm giving somebody who I don't even know anything about their life and I'm giving them a moment to like, hey, go ahead and speak influence into these people, like I'm not gonna do that. Like that just is that's not wise, right? So kind of just screening my Screening whoever I'm working with in a sense where catch a vibe, right? Get on a phone ⁓ or get on a call or just hang out, you know, get coffee, get lunch, whatever, see what the vibe is, and then just see what kind of person they are, right? If if they're a cool person and they seem like they got a good heart, but they're still like figuring life out, bro. That's us all of us, right? Just because I don't cuss or just because I don't smoke or like drink or like stuff like that, it's like ⁓ doesn't mean that I didn't before. Doesn't mean that like we all go through our journeys, so it's like who am I to tell Who am I to dismiss what you have to say? And like dismiss what God can do out of you. Right. God can use anybody, anything, any moment, ⁓ saved or unsaved. Right? So to me I'm just like, it ⁓ it just all depends, right? In music it's so weird because it's like, yeah, you'll work with honestly, like there's Christians that I work with that I'm just like, dude, I don't I don't like your personality. I don't like I don't like your your intentions, like Yeah. Like what? So it's

speaker-0: I mean there's like there's so much within the C CM space that like you know, I see so many Christian artists that are like, ⁓ I I've worked with quote unquote Christian artists with that and it's like, Well that's sus. I I don't like hearing that. but they're out there for sure.

speaker-1: Sure, yeah. Yeah, so I think like I yeah, I think my whole thing is like it just depends on what it is. It depends on what the what what what you're trying to get across. If they're not being authentic in who they are, then it's almost like, I don't know, like you just it's it's finding a role for them, right? So like if you get a group of people who want to help serve, right? And you know, I had this conversation with my girlfriend as well, like You get a whole group of people that wanna serve. You have a handful that are like really saved, who have been in the church forever. And then you have like you're kind of saved, like one foot in, one foot out type of thing. And then you have your brand new spanking new people who are just like, We just wanna serve. But they like you don't know their lifestyles, like none of that stuff. ⁓ and it's just like so where where are you gonna put people, right? So it's like the people that are like just brand new spanking save you're not gonna put them on stage. Right. Right? You're not gonna Throw them, I don't know, like you're you're not gonna throw them on the worship team. I mean maybe you throw them in the choir, right? Because it's a it's low sticks. Right. It's a s right, exactly. But you're not gonna give them guest speaking role. Exactly, exactly. You're not gonna put them at the front greeting people. You might maybe, I don't know, but hey, what the f is going on? Like, how the f are you? You know, like hey big, I ain't see you lit. How you know, all that stuff.

speaker-0: You're not gonna put ⁓ in kids' church. To a certain extent, I would almost be like down for that.

speaker-1: Right, you know, low key, right? Maybe, you know. So it's just it all depends on what it is, man.

speaker-0: of like biker ministry. Like you know, just the rougher on the edges type of like guy, but it's like you you know for sure that they're like sold out for Jesus, but they're still like the you know s sanctification of their their ⁓ vocabulary. ⁓

speaker-1: Well dude, it's funny 'cause I have a guy who who he's aga like one of my ⁓ close friends that I have back in back in Florida and it's funny because he just got back from a trip in Japan and he and he like he's starting to get his faith together and kind of thing, like he's going to church and stuff. And it's funny 'cause while he was out there like he's with an ex of his and like slept with her and stuff like that and then like came back home and when I was asking about his trip, he's Man, it was such a good time, whatever. ⁓ and then alluded to like them sleeping together and then I was like well why wouldn't you want to date her and he's just like she doesn't believe in God all that stuff so I'm like that's interesting that's funny I was like that's a good number one and like that it's weird that like you'll still sleep with her though but like have this conviction right and then also had convictions of like being in temples and being in the different areas being in like where like the Buddha whatever and like having a prey or like 'cause it's like the cultural thing, right? Like not being disrespectful to the culture. And he started feeling convicted about that. Where he's like, well, I'm not praying to this guy. I know who I'm praying to. I'm praying to God. Like, and so like, so hearing that was interesting because it's like you're still like, okay, doing these other things and like you don't care about that. And like this, this and that. But then there is that sanctification process where like conviction is hitting like in these areas, right? Like everybody goes to their own walk. Right. It's it's a that's why it's a relationship. Everybody has their own personal relationship with God and the Holy Spirit moves in them however it moves in them, however much you allow it to. Right. So

speaker-0: The to throw this in a slightly different direction, ⁓ huh. You know, so much of the filmmaking process ⁓ is behind the scenes. and the various collaborators, like we we have a great collaborator in our friend Kaiwa Merrill, who ⁓ who is our DP on a lot of music videos and and directed some for you even ⁓ when I wasn't available. and so ⁓ I don't exactly know where like specifically Kyle is, but just Using him as an example, like there's a lot of people behind the scenes. For the music world where there's like engineers, there's producers, there's a lot of people behind the scenes that we don't really know. How do you feel about collaborating with someone there in that space, specifically in the behind the scenes stuff that ⁓ you know, may not, you know, be one hundred percent there as a Christian or be far off. Like Sure. Like I know Dallas Jenkins faced a lot of heat on the chosen because his DP had a a pride flag sticker on his camera case. and yeah, I wasn't too like worried about something like that. 'Cause I'm like, you gotta minister in some way, you gotta have those conversations. But ⁓ yeah, I get I get why people would be convicted about

speaker-1: Sure. You know, my thing is like, why wouldn't you want to work with them? Right. Like, isn't that the whole goal is to like to be around these people to demonstrate Christ? Right? Like, shouldn't you want to collaborate with them? Shouldn't you want to operate as one unit? Like, it's like the same thing with the church. Like, you want your church to be full of people who don't know who God is. You don't want the church to be full of of already saved people. Like it's it's for the sick, right? It's not for the already healed. When you're already healed, when you when you go to a hospital, you leave and and you go about your day. Like you don't stay at the hospital. So it's like when it comes to that kind of thing, I just feel like yeah, you should want like, bro, that's your chance to that's your chance to witness to these people. Right. That's your moment to like Yeah, to just demonstrate who who like what you're about and what God is all about. And like the fact that they're even interested to work on projects that like revolve around like maybe not Jesus, but like revolve around a person who is Jesus centered and like Holy Spirit, faith-based, like that is an even more telling tale. Like I I have a I have this dude who I've been working with too, like and he's he's pretty he's a dope artist. And like just me like I get to witness to him, right? Like Just being around him, willing to work with him, him seeing my mannerisms and like my openness, my willing to just like put him on, put him on in a in this position, it's like, dude, like you're different. Mm-hmm. Like that already sets me apart. And like, you know, I it's a seed. It's all about planting seeds. My job isn't to change his lifestyle. It's just to plant the seed. But I can't plant that seed if I'm over here talking about some like ⁓ I can't work with you 'cause you're you're not a Christian. Yeah. Like some people have those convictions and that's cool. If that's your conviction, that's your conviction. Right? Like

speaker-0: But that's not a that's not a blanket ⁓ command. Right. And I think that's just generally where the gift of discernment comes in. Like you know, there's gonna be the the person who is like staunchly anti Christ. Sure. ⁓ not to say that they literally are the anti Christ. Sure. But they are anti Jesus religion, anti Jesus. And so, you know, with that person, it's like, you know, would I want that person on set? Only if they're like

speaker-1: Yes. ⁓

speaker-0: Chill about.

speaker-1: Yeah, like if if I'm uncomfortable like then okay, I you know, I won't work with you.

speaker-0: So you would say you haven't arrived exactly to where you want to be or where you feel like God has ultimately had you. Like you're still kind of on the journey.

speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. I you know, I think ⁓ and I'm a big believer of like if you feel like you've arrived, you haven't arrived. Yeah. Like But then also there is that point of being content, right? Sure. ⁓ but always being open to wherever else God can take you. Because at any moment he could tell you to get up and go. Yeah. You know? ⁓ you can think you're established and firm, and then that's when God will be like, All right, cool. Now I want to start my ministry with you. And it's like, what? So and that can happen at any moment. Yeah. Right. So

speaker-0: And so within that journey, ⁓ you know, I I think you're someone who thinks about legacy and ⁓ you know making sure that you're leaving behind a good legacy and and being conscious of that ⁓ along the journey. ⁓ how do you how do you navigate being conscious about journey being conscious about legacy ⁓ while also kind of avoiding burnout? Like I feel like it's really easy to be like, ⁓ I gotta be on my grind about legacy. I I gotta like so considerate. And we hear that from the pulpit a lot. ⁓ I feel like a lot of pastors always really nail legacy. ⁓ but you know I feel like if we focus on it too much, there's that potential for burnout. Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

speaker-1: So yeah, okay. My whole thing with legacy, do I and and I feel like I preach this a lot to people, like people who know me, they hear me say this a lot. Like I don't gatekeep anything, right? Big reason for that is because like first of all, anything and everything can like changes so rapidly, right? Like especially within music, ⁓ things change, right? So I'm just using this as an example. And like For me, I'm like, well, I'd rather share my knowledge because sharing that knowledge that I have is gonna help this person. Who knows what this person's gonna be able to do with that knowledge? And they might be able to, you know, bring up other people now because of that knowledge I was able to share with them. And so like for me it's like, what did I leave behind? And it was it was something that can be passed on, right? Your legacy in a in in a sense. And so it's like whether I get credit or not, but it's just like I was able to do something that somebody else saw as beneficial. And then because of that, they're able to keep that going, right? And so, like for me, avoiding burnout, what I've been able to do, because dude, I've been burnt out so like so many times. I think being an artist, being a producer, being an engineer helps me because I'm able to switch between the hats and the roles, right? Interesting. So Playing the whole roles thing, right? Where cool, I can engineer for now. Okay, I'm burnt out. I don't really want to do that no more. I could be an artist. Boom, be an artist for a little bit. I'm a little burnt out. Let me go to being a producer now. And then it's like using these different roles to serve people as well. Cause it's like I can either serve myself, but that get you get burnt out really quick doing that. And then serving others. And then it's like you get that fulfillment, that joy, that feeling of like I'm actually doing something for other people. And then it's like you can get a little burnt out from there. And then you just go back and forth. And then and then you do things outside of music. Do things outside of your creative wheelhouse. Honestly, this is why I have a regular job. Because I don't want to be burnt out doing music. Because I know I can get burnt out doing music. ⁓ and that's why I keep a regular job. ⁓ it frustrates me and it annoys me, and sometimes I'm like, I wish I never had this job. But honestly, like that has helped me to not get burnt out because I'm like, I clock in. I'm totally away from the music thing and then it makes me excited for music whenever I get a chance to do it. You know? And so then that's just for me, right? Other people can do it, ⁓ and go full fledged music or go full fledged creativity and start their business and get it right, you know. You know, cool. ⁓ but I feel like what I'm trying to build specifically for myself, it's like ⁓ I'm trying to make sure I get to a point where I don't gotta do nothing and I'm making money. Right. Like I'm I'm sure that's everybody's yeah goal, right? ⁓ residual income. And so that's essentially what I'm doing, at least I'm trying, right? Is building up a ways to get that residual income. So in order to avoid the burnout, my regular job helps me and then I get to do the music stuff. And then whenever I the music stuff pays for a substantially, then I can take off work for a little bit and just chill. And then take that moment to really like embrace like wow like the music is really doing this. Like what God has given me talent to do like is really doing this. So taking also moments to pause and celebrate and and and celebrate the wins be around the people that helped me get to where I'm at and like taking it in and not just trying to move on to the next thing. ⁓ so that I to me that's what help has helped me to avoid burnout. And then also within all that I am leaving a legacy of ⁓ just building up other people and serving other people to get them to where they want to go. ⁓ helping them achieve their dreams and plans. goals. And I have that's that's where I feel like God has really called me is to uplift other creatives, ⁓ encourage other people. ⁓ that charisma that I had as a kid, that entertainment, that like thing that draws people to like just watch me. It's like you're watching me do this, but guess what? You can literally do this too and I'm about to show you how. ⁓ and it's not no sign up for my course. No, it's like like let's get on a phone call and like just tell me what you do. And I'll get you amped up. Right? Like encourage you and just get you to wanna go and do whatever it is you gotta do. You know.

speaker-0: I've been on the receiving end then. That was very encouraging and and just starting this podcast and ⁓ you know, we got to connect and talk ⁓ a couple of weeks ago and so that was just encouraging for for doing this.

speaker-1: Heck yeah, man. Absolutely. ⁓

speaker-0: So I got I got two questions to end the show that I ask all my guests, and by ask all my guests means I'm starting to ⁓ with you as the first person. ⁓ First question ⁓ what are what are you listening to? What are you watching? What's inspiring you right now? Who can you give some ⁓ some shout out and some love to that you know is inspiring you right now?

speaker-1: Who am I listening to? Who am I listening to? I've been watching a lot of like ⁓ Lecre man, I love people when they do their podcasts because I think it's so cool. ⁓ 'cause I feel like you get a deeper just deeper take on stuff. ⁓ but I've been watching Lecrae's ⁓ The Deep End. The deep end. Yeah. So good. ⁓ I'll tune into Rougelon stuff every now and again. You know, I think it's really dope that like we do have more Christian voices in these spaces. Yeah. And like Like I love when Rusan just talks about aliens and just like the random like ⁓ hot topic stuff. 'Cause I'm like, ⁓ cool, we get a Christian perspective versus like what all these other people ⁓ talk about. So I do I do like watching their podcast and just kinda like hearing how they talk and then being introduced to different type of theologians or professors or yeah, writers and stuff. I think that's really cool. ⁓ so I've been tuning into a lot of their stuff. ⁓ As far like on the music end, I'm just kinda like, I don't know.

speaker-0: I mean your our mutual friend Andrew Prim has some ⁓ some beats on Magic Bird.

speaker-1: Heck yeah, like yeah, he's been working a lot with ⁓ with Andy and and all them and Wordsplay. And Words Play, yep. And then he's also like working a lot with ⁓ Marty and their whole Apollo. Yeah, Apollo Records. So that's super incredible and super cool. It's really cool to see all my friends winning. Like it really is really it's really cool 'cause it's like they always had the talent. It was just a matter of when it was gonna happen. ⁓ so I think, yeah, shout out to Prim. ⁓

speaker-0: Yeah, we'll have to do like a a collab episode between you and Prim and go into the weeds a little bit of producing and and I mean that's a world that like I don't you know, I don't even know. I'd be like, this is cool. I get it. But like hearing you guys like geek out over you know, what you specifically do, I think would be cool, especially in this day and age where beat making and ⁓ I mean it it's it's not only in the rap scene, you know, it's it's so

speaker-1: Mm. For sure, for sure.

speaker-0: ⁓ you know, integrated into the pop scene ⁓ too. So ⁓ yeah. So anyways, it was cool like hearing we listened to h his one song. Yep. Mm-hmm. ⁓

speaker-1: On the way over here, yep.

speaker-0: So yeah, looking forward to to diving more into that album. the the new ⁓ magic and bird. ⁓ okay, our last question to end the show. again I ask all my guests this. if you were in the show Veggie Tales, what vegetable would you be?

speaker-1: Potato.

speaker-0: Solid solid answer.

speaker-1: It'll be a potato.

speaker-0: Ha

speaker-1: Don't even give me eyes from out. I just Don't even animate me.

speaker-0: Bob and Larry would be like, I don't know what to do with this guy.

speaker-1: Is that a potato or a rock?

speaker-0: Well cool man. Thank you so much for lending your voice to the Creative Chapel podcast and being my first guest on the show. This has been so cool just to reconnect and revisiting our history, doing you know, running around Metro Detroit, shooting random videos, getting into trouble.

speaker-1: Heck yeah. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah.

speaker-0: Real quick. There was a one time the Yeah. The group was called Flight School and we scouted a location. It was like a V FW hall on the

speaker-1: I didn't even I didn't even know it was a freaking like memorial spot, bro.

speaker-0: I just saw a plane out on the lawn and I was like, we're gonna shoot on this plane. So you and Rich hopped up on the wing and we got some dope shots. And and so eventually two people came out and we were like a good couple yards away and they were yelling at us. And I don't think you know this, but like they were yelling at us, and I whisper to Kaya what I don't really whisper, but I'm like, don't stop shooting. He said, and I walked over yeah, I was like, I'll handle this.

speaker-1: ⁓ my god. Bruh, sick shot.

speaker-0: So keep getting the shot as much as you can get right now. And so I just walk over, I'm like, Hey, what's going on? And they're like super mad. ⁓ and they're like, Hey, you can't be You can't be they need to they need to get down immediately. I'm like, totally understand Totally understand. ⁓ I will go over there and s put a stop to this right now. And I walk as slow as I humanly can to get back to where we're shooting. ⁓ so that you guys can at least get through a good chunk of the song.

speaker-1: Respecting her girl.

speaker-0: ⁓ and then, you know, I'm like, alright, Kyle ⁓ I eventually get over there and like we gotta stop shooting. ⁓ that's definitely like a favorite.

speaker-1: Dude, that was that was so freaking funny, bro. I share that story all the time. Anytime I see like a like a plane on the side, I send a picture to Rich. I'm like, bro, you trying to hop on this or what? That's great. But no, I yeah, we share that story. I'm like, yeah, Chris just went over there, he was just like

speaker-0: Willin' dealin' man, that's what you gotta do.

speaker-1: We're over here looking like, are we good? You're like, just keep going, keep going. They need to stop. Keep going. ⁓ stop them. Keep going. Such a good time, man.

speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ great. hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Make sure to follow Miguel. ⁓ we'll leave his social channels below. ⁓ so you can check him out. Connect with him if you're a musician and need some ⁓ some advice, need some career development. His DMs are open. It's got some cool you know, get your song on a Fortnite commercial. ⁓ be like Miguel. ⁓ bring that energy. Energy, energy, energy. ⁓ so thanks man. Appreciate it.

speaker-1: Absolutely. Thank you for having me on, man.

speaker-0: We'll see you on the next one. Stay faithful, stay creative, and I'll see you in the next episode. ⁓