How God Transforms Your Creativity: Faith, Filmmaking & Finding Your Calling With Nathan Presley

speaker-0: Welcome to Creative Chapel, a podcast exploring the vast landscape of Christian artistry. Across denominations and disciplinary mediums, Creative Chapel is building a space where saints can gather and celebrate their walk with Christ with their God-given gifting, encouraging each other in their faith and their craft. Creative Chapel is the place for inspiration, curation, and revelation. Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Chapel Podcast. I'm your host Chris Mack and today I'm joined by Nathan Presley, who is a commercial film director, cinematographer, as well as music video director, short filmmaker, and ⁓ you also have your own podcast called Art and Faith, right? Or is it reversed? But it's so cool to see the guests that you have on your podcast. ⁓ I'm I'm really grateful that you are willing to be a guest on mine.

speaker-1: Yeah, you got it. Art and faith. Great.

speaker-0: ⁓ and doing this kinda like collab collab pod in a way. You have some really cool talent on that. I'm spacing on their names, but I know their work from major motion picture film editors who have worked on films like Minari, which I loved, Concrete Cowboys, a different director and ⁓ his work and I've listened to him multiple times on different podcasts like Film Riot. So you're pulling some really cool, cool talent on your show. And are these like personal connections that you've made in the film industry? Or are they kind of just through research and friends of friends?

speaker-1: Kinda like, you know, art and faith, ⁓ this topic has like been interesting to me forever and something I care about. So I've kind of just tracked people for years that I admire or have kind of discovered. And so it's kind of been like I didn't most of them I didn't know but I already like followed on Instagram or something and I just slide in their DMs and you know, some don't respond and some do. And so yeah, there's been Yeah, chatting with gotten been yeah, been blessed to have some some talented people on and it's cool for me. It's just like essentially just to have people on that I'm like I feel like they're really talented and they also are like the type of person that will like openly talk about their faith, you know, and so it's been fun.

speaker-0: Yeah, and I you know, that's definitely rare in the film industry. I feel like everyone's always kinda like looking out for their neck and you know, as as Hollywood has been described to me, it's not that they are like anti faith as long as kinda like faith makes money. And so if if faith ever gets in the way of money or anything gets in the way of money, that's kinda when problems arise. But it's cool to see those who are like vocal and willing to express their faith more. So I'd love to to know a little bit more about your story and background, 'cause in our in our brief interactions at the Hard Faith Film Festival. We didn't really get too deep into each other's stories, but I'd love to hear more about your testimony and how you've you've navigated your journey of faith and kinda intertwining that with your journey as a as a filmmaker and artist, if that's I know it's kinda like two stories at once sometimes, but if it's possible to weave the two.

speaker-1: I'd like to know for sure. Let's see. So I'm from Oklahoma. I like kind of joke that I was born into full time ministry 'cause like my dad was sort of a pastor. My older brothers were sort of youth pastors. We're doing like youth groups in campus ministry and they were all kinda like choosing their career paths 'cause I'm the youngest and I was like that weird kid at like nine, ten was praying. I was like, Lord, what's my calling? What's my vocation? you know. But I felt like and I was doing a little bit of I would just started doing a little bit of video stuff for our youth group or or I it was more like I like watching them do it. I was pretty young. But I felt like I felt like the Lord told me at the time and I was like I remember telling my dad, I'm like, Lord or Dad, I I prayed and God told me after years of praying he told me what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be a filmmaker. That's my calling. And my dad was like driving in the car. It's like kinda silent. He's like, Nah, that's not it And I was like, No, I that's what God said, you know. And then So he was like, God may use that, but your call is to to serve and know the Lord, to delight in the Lord, enjoy him and you know, ⁓ serve him and God may use filmmaking. And I was like, You don't get it, you know, in my head. That's what I'm saying. ⁓ so flash, you know, jump cut forward quite a few years. I'm like, you know, young adult packing my car with what will fit inside of it and nothing else, driving to, you know, Southern California. Very little connections or anything and I was like, Okay, I I I've had some success in Oklahoma with commercial type stuff. I'm gonna work harder than anybody else. I can hustle. Like I kinda grew up in like farm culture a little bit. My dad's very into work ethic. You know, he grew up on a ranch, so it was like do your sixteen hour days in the sun, you know. Mm-hmm. So I'm like I have all this like good training and self help type like bootstraps and I moved here and I just tried my hardest, worked really hard and just like nothing was happening. And it was it was really my main thing. It was the most important thing to me. And I was just like, I gotta ⁓ hustle more. And I'm like, I know most people quit, but I'm not gonna quit. I'm gonna keep going. So like three months, six months, a year, a year and a half, two years. I'm just like getting up early, trying to set up meetings, get taking in scripts, all this. I'm like, gotta be a filmmaker. And I just dedicated my life to it. And it just sucked. And it I there was like enough financial success to like pay my bills. But in some ways that was bad too, because then I'm like alone all the time other than that tiny bit of work. ⁓ and then I'm like just getting so lonely. I didn't I have been used to being around so many people. Even as an introvert, I was used to being around so many people in my family and youth ministry stuff. And I'm just so isolated and lonely. And then I'm okay, God, maybe you don't want me to the film thing right now. Maybe what I need, I'm so lonely. What I need is like Christian community. I need a Christian wife. I want a I want a good church. And and so then that was my new goal. It's kinda like my two goals was that. But thing is I just got so lonely and so depressed and I eventually was like just doing anything I could to not feel lonely, to not yeah, just feel kind of like empty. And so then I'm like eventually I'm like you know online dating and dating apps had become a thing. And so like started out like I'm a Christian seeking a you know ⁓ and then as that kind of like you know there wasn't free very many options there as that went away then it was like who else is on here and then kind of just turned into this like there's I mean I I really went into a lot of sin This is just one of ⁓ But just sort of this like, you know, hook up culture and just trying to do whatever I could to feel connection and but no excuses, you know. But I I do think that I started to like sort of adjust my theology to it where I was like, Well, it's not really clear exactly what the interpretation of this is in the Greek, so technically it could mean this, could mean that, so you know, and or just being like Yeah, just kinda like finding a reason why it's not necessarily sin or like I'm like, ⁓ the Bible says we all have fallen short. Like it's in the text. We all just fail. That like we all fail in the heavens. Kinda like I knew it wasn't right, but it's essentially just embrace this idea and then like jump forward even more years. I'm just living in this hell. I'm like crippledly depressed in bed. There's days that like I don't get out of bed. Like I watch the sun beam on my wall, like slowly work its way, you know. ⁓ And I'm just it gets really bad. I've been in like these heartbreaking like then there's moments in these relationships I shouldn't be in that I like fall in love and it's a mess and it shouldn't happen and it breaks up and it's just like I'm like God I'm not sure that I'm supposed to take the Bible literally. I have all these intellectual reasons why I'm not supposed to take it literally. But I'm so miserable. I am like so depressed. Whatever I'm doing's not working. And I've like tried so hard to do this film thing and like do this like Christian wife thing, do this community thing, and I'm don't seem to be finding any of it. I've been praying for it this whole time, even though I'm, you know, in the middle of my bad decisions. ⁓ until finally I was like, Lord, I I'm gonna take your word, literally. And first things first, like this this must be an idol. Filmmaking must be an idol for me. Finding a Christian wife must be an idol for me. Finding community like all this is an idol for me. It's I want it more than I want you, I think is probably the case. And I don't even know how to make myself want you more. But I will try to do what the Bible says literally now. Which I'm like, okay, so if I even look at some a woman lustfully, I committed adultery, and my brain goes, That's not fair at all. That's that's shame and judgment, you know. And then I'm like, Well, my way's not working, so I'm like, I'll take it literally, which also means that if I ask for forgiveness, it'll be right there. And then also as I do it, you'll send the helper, the Holy Spirit to help me. So like that was it. That was the turning point. in my life. And it just fail at that constantly. Minute by minute fail at that Lord forgive me. You know, Lord forgive me. Lord forgive me. And it was like I don't know how to describe it other than like chipping away at like being stuck inside like a stone. And it just like chipped every time I said, Lord forgive me, like I'm wrong and you're right. Not in this judgmental way. It was like this loving father who's ready to forgive you right away. It just like broke away. Like the depression stuff fail. Even like the way I saw the world completely changed. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, I've been in like slavery. Like how frustrating it is to be enslaved to all this for so long. And like now I'm seeing like seeing the world differently. And literally I was like, after like being away from like lust and different things for a long time, I was like, or not that long, maybe even like a six months. I was like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm in love with it. I've been in love with the same girl for ten years. And I never knew it because really what I would say is like because like lust stuff was like blocking me. It was like messing up my vision. And then like And everything changed. So then I'm like embarrassingly quickly, I'm like married to her. I mean, you know, maybe about a year after this. I'm married to her and like we have a family and we have a community group and a church and like I just felt like the Lord was like waited for me and then just like rescued me and pulled me out. And sometimes I'm like it's almost felt so quickly. I'm like, I don't know if I deserve it. I think I need to like be sorry longer, you know. But he just that's just isn't his character. So so that just changes my life. And also the filmmaking thing, I'm like, it's it's I'm putting I put on the altar and I killed it. I'm done for good. I will never do it again. I'm I'm gonna do s find something to do. ⁓ I went to my church or I went to her church, who with this girl I was dating, who I was confident I was gonna marry them, but and I was like Does anybody like need someone like anything? I'll clean toilets. Like I would rather clean toilets here than try to be a filmmaker, you know, like something that just is clear cut. For the Lord or something, and they're like, ⁓ you know, no, we don't need that. We actually have people to do that, but there's other ways to get involved in But after a little while I was like, ⁓ I think like the Lord is calling me to this community group. Like, what if these ten people in this community group, it's like just do everything I can to like be a brother in Christ, to be very vulnerable and honest. Like that's one of the things we both feel called to is like just be kind of like an overshare or recklessly honest about our sin and God's grace and So I was like, well, maybe that's my calling. And then I do a little bit of like video jobs to pay the bills. And but like to me, like there's video jobs and then there's like filmmaking. Filmmaking was the idol, you know, and video jobs is kind of like just a thing. I like, ⁓ I can do this fairly easily as a way to pay some bills. And anyway, so jumping forward in time, we have a couple kids, we have community group meeting in our house. Every Tuesday we make a meal and I love the church that I'm in and and the ministry and the community group doing video stuff. And I felt like know, years have gone by and I felt like the Lord brought back filmmaking into my life. Like, hey, here's an opportunity to shoot a movie and it's this way. And there's all these signs that feel like it's from the Lord. And I also just feel like I've learned to hear his voice more. And so I'm like, ⁓ my god, I thought we I was like, I'm I'm fine not doing this. I'm like, I have made this an idol before. I don't even know how to do any of this without like blocking out everything and just like chasing after it, you know. I don't know how to do it without like the hustle culture, you know. And I felt like he was like, ⁓ I'm gonna show you how to do it. And it looks like you're a dad and you're busy and you have to pay these bills and you have your your wife's a priority first, your kids first, your community group first, your family, you know. ⁓ and so that what that looks like for me is like twenty minutes of faithfulness of like writing. So like, okay, I'm just gonna I have twenty minutes to write. I it doesn't have to be good. I literally just have to clackety clack on the keyboard for twenty minutes and walk away. And like that ironically was so much more effective and came I think God was just blessing it versus before I would like lock myself in a hotel room for like ten hours and you know and it would just always turn into like analysis paralysis and failing. So so anyway, so that he kinda put me on that path. And so and then also that kind of like in that space, as we was getting married too, I feel like the not only the videos have kinda took off a little bit more too. So like the music videos and ⁓ I was shooting for a lot of people and then I started directing and yeah, so kinda brings us where I am today of just like felt like God called me to some level of try to I tried to make something that I thought would glorify him and then it was released bad. I wrote it bad and I was joking with someone the other day. I I literally felt like I like, Lord, I feel like this isn't very good and I felt like I was like, Yeah it's not But it was good news because I didn't like it either. and I felt like God was like, instead of like trying to make something about me, how about you try to make it with me? Hmm. Like how about like bring me into the process versus like blocking me out? Don't talk to me, God, I'm making something about you. Yeah. You know, but just like it's almost more like the process of growing something versus like just having it, you know, like if you try to make an apple from scratch. It's not gonna go well, but maybe if you plant a seed and water it and it becomes a tree, an apple, you know, it's like maybe it felt more like that. Yeah, so that's kind of where I am now. You know, I've I've made there's a short film called Flesh and Blood that I've made that you've seen. I think you've seen it. I don't know if you actually did get a

speaker-0: I I'll tell the story of of my viewing of it ⁓ once you finish, but yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah. Well anyway, so th I'll end it with this, but I kinda was like, Okay, I'm gonna try to write something with you that I just am drawn to. ⁓ and I did, and I was like, I don't see how this glorifies you in any way. And I felt like he was like, Well, is it done? I'm like, No, there's still the notes process. So I did the notes process and it through the actual people in my community group, I ended up like, ⁓ I'm gonna add the scene. I was gonna like hide this like inside a church, but we didn't see the the main pastor. I'm like, I'm gonna add this in so we can cross cut. was kind of his input. But as he said that I was like, ⁓ now I can like s incorporate what he's preaching on into this kind of thriller film, you know, and yeah. And all of a sudden it started taking shape in a way. And I felt like I didn't do it. I felt like I just tried to be faithful to the next step and it led to that. And and I'm sure there are some Christians that would be like, This is bad. And like this is not this is too dark. And then, you know. And then there are some that would be like, ⁓ it's great, you know. And ⁓ but But anyway, I feel like all you can do is try to be faithful to what what God's calling you to do. So

speaker-0: Thanks for being an early listener of the Creative Chapel Podcast. As a new show, it means so much that you're here. Please like, subscribe, and download our episodes to keep the momentum going. And share it with a friend who could use encouragement in their creative journey. Alright, back to the show. Yeah, it's interesting. ⁓ you know, where we met was Hard Faith Film Festival and the the last episode I had Spencer Fulmer on, who is the the creator of the Hard Faith Film Fest, and so in that ⁓ conversation with him, I'd I talk about kind of what lines up with making creating with God versus for him, i in a similar sense of like the creation process is just as much ministry as the final result. ⁓ like I'm sure you could point to stories and I'd love to maybe probe this a little bit later. You know, stories about being on set and just how that can minister to people. And I think that's something that ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: You know, these very collaborative mediums like music and film that ⁓ need to involve other people in order to achieve a certain quality level. The the collaboration is just as much ministry as like showing it to the audience and ministering unto the audience. And so ⁓ I feel like that gets lost, especially when people think about filmmaking. That, you know, they they mostly just concern themselves about the final product. But then you get, you know, just as much as like, you know horror stories ab about being on set with some of these filmmakers as much as like you would find it on, you know, any average, you know, Netflix film or whatever. Yeah. And so people who who go into the process creating with, I'm sure, are like conscious of that from the writing to the the pre production to production and post production, all the way through the finish line. I feel like that's way more life giving to the project and to ⁓ you know just Finding God in the small moments of like when he answers prayer and when you have a great moment with somebody. So I think that's a a a really great takeaway for for any artist to just think about creating for or creating with rather than for. 'Cause I I do think we've gotten a lot of works that are you know, could could use a little bit more intentionality because they're striving so hard to do it for rather than inviting God to be a collaborator.

speaker-1: Yeah. And but that probably goes even beyond creative, right? Like you think of anyone most people work their jobs. They the only way they even think about it is doing it like maybe a a strong believer would be like, ⁓ doing it with God as I'm at my accounting job makes more sense to me than than doing it for God, unless I like do it for a ministry on my own time or something, you know. So I do think that ⁓ sometimes it's creatives 'cause our work is a little bit different, you know, especially if it's something that's like our passion project, you know. But I think that it's is we can actually take a lesson from other people in the sense of like bring it he bring them into the process. Before, after, during. Something's confusing, asking for help there from him in the moment, you know what I mean? Just like it's like you have a father. We're not we're not orphans and really trying to like bring the him into and lean on him, you know.

speaker-0: Yeah. And so kinda like diving into my experience of of flesh and blood. I was you know, how Hard Faith was set up last year was there were two rooms for screenings, there was like the main theater and then there like kind of the B theater just to get all the films into into the running, ⁓ so they would play simultaneously. So I was downstairs for one of the evenings and w I don't even remember necessarily what I was watching. You know, I think I was I was finishing up A really good movie. It was a feature. ⁓ I think it's like Triumph of the Heart, I think it was called. It's a really good film. And so that had finished up and so I just wandered upstairs to see and it was like pretty late in the evening. ⁓ I'd wandered upstairs and I come into the theater and it's dark and and I just see on the screen, you know, this woman sitting in this environment like ⁓ like it was like a a kids ministry room and

speaker-1: Okay.

speaker-0: There's something kinda eerie about it and creepy and there's a a girl on the other side. And I just continued watching this film, which would turn out to be flesh and blood. And so I only caught like three minutes of it. But those three minutes of it were so impressive to me. ⁓ and I think we talked about this the following day when we were able to grab lunch. It was just like walking into that was like, This is like, you know, Netflix quality, even beyond Netflix quality when it comes to filmmaking, especially with Netflix's standards these days, but the level of quality both in terms of like interesting story, interesting premise, and, you know, production value of the film wasn't incredible. And I was r really surprised that Yeah, I didn't, you know, see more recognition of it in in the awards ⁓ segment of the festival later. But I was so impressed even just with those three minutes. And so I've been dying to see more of it, and so I'm signed up for the the email to be part of the rollout for the release after your film festival circuit. But yeah, I would love to know

speaker-1: Awesome. Well first let me just say thank you real quick. I ⁓ I had an awesome team of people working on it. So but I thank you.

speaker-0: highly encourage ⁓ people to go see and sign up for those emails when it when it's ready to be viewed. But I'd love to know a little bit of like the the creation process of it. ⁓ you you talked about ⁓ working with God in the script writing and development of it. ⁓ were there any interesting stories happening on set or conversations? Were there any people who were not believers or was it kind of like ⁓ everyone on the same page when it comes to faith? ⁓ I'd love to hear about the the onset experience of it.

speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ great question. So I've d we casted the traditional way that I have for other projects and I've the way I've casted music videos and casted other things and that's just like using the casting networks. Like the breakdown express to like send it out and people submit. So you know, generally expecting like generally speaking, being in LA, like you're not gonna get many Christians even if you just took ⁓ all. Like there's just not that many Christians per se, just like map numbers wise that are auditioning there. I'm sure there are some. But so it was definitely one of those things where I'm like, I wanna talk to each cast member. And it's not I feel like the script is up for interpretation too, so it's not like they are like a part of a PSA, you know. But I felt like yeah, so anyway, so we did the casting and like the way the cast came together was really interesting in the sense that Like brought in all the best people. Like I'm like these are you know, there was like thousands of people that submitted. That's what's great about those websites. And I, you know, went through all these tapes and brought in everyone that I thought was the best. And even with the little girl we did a call back, like a ch chemistry read with the main lead and but what's just crazy is like come to find out, like almost like I didn't do this on purpose, but so many of the people on set were believers. ⁓ like the main girl was like, ⁓ I'm new to I don't want to speak on her behalf. But she was just saying I think she was saying she was kinda kinda newer to faith, but like really appreciates it, you know, and and then like the girl and her mom. So really when you cast a kid, you're like c kinda casting their mom as well or their parent as well, you know, and so they were both believers. And she I remember we're talking with her and she's like, ⁓ you guys are just like some really dark Christians, aren't you? This is And yeah, and then like the guy who plays I'll just say the figure who's seven feet tall. Similar story, you know, and yeah, so it was just cool to see and there's some people that are not as well, you know, but it was just cool to see that and the ha the environment on set was just so sweet and kind. Like people are always like, ⁓ is it hard shooting that? I'm like, no, it's mostly like people laughing and like, you know, the the figure and the little girl and the le they're all like playing together and like, you know, so I just felt like it was a really such a great environment to be on, for me at least, you know, and like In fact, everyone treated everybody well and yeah, it was just a sweet a sweet thing. And I kinda like post some of the screenings and the Q and A is able to talk to some of the cast more. And it was just like they would come up, yeah, someone would come up to me crying and like thanking us, the whole film team, and just ⁓ and it was cool because that was like after I talked about my faith in the Q and A. And these are people that I don't think are believers, but it was just like, Man, this idea that I don't know why. Maybe it's when you create art together or when you watch art, but it seems like it just like Part of your brain that blocks out the enemy or it blocks out the other side or a belief system, it seems like it just kinda like calls to the wayside and like people can kinda connect it, like kind of skips the brain and goes to the heart or something, you know. ⁓ so anyway, it was yeah, that was cool. I I don't know if I answered your question too well, but I feel like it was just surprising to find out, like, ⁓ man, a lot of people here like we did it the traditional way, and somehow like a lot of people here, you know, love Jesus. And that's yeah. How did that happen, you know?

speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And you've you've found some success at, you know, other festivals. ⁓ obviously Hard Faith is a Christian based festival, but you've submitted it to to secular festivals a as well, right? I think I've submitted it.

speaker-1: Yeah, Hard Faith is the only Christian festival I've submitted to actually. And that was it was just finished. And not e we actually I actually changed it little bit after Hard Faith. There's a few things I changed. So yeah, so that came in like here Censor actually did me a favor, letting me come in super late. So I to your point too, I think he was like, ⁓ I can get you in, but like it's things are already kind of locked in. So like you won't be up for any other awards or anything like that, you know. But I was just ha I just really wanted to screen it with an audience to get a sense of how it felt. ⁓ so I'm really thankful to him for that and But yeah, that was the only Faith festival I screened at and the rest are like the opposite. Like you know, Scream Fest, they say it's like the Sundance of Horror. You screened there, did a late night shorts at Diff in Dallas and we won the audience award there. So I'm I'm I'm keep getting paired like it's a short, so it's paired with all these like horror films and things I would never watch myself you know. But it's been really cool to see like people really respond to it and I think there's like a sort of a a therapy. healing side that people respond to, but I also think that that is undeniably sort of an attribute of Christ to bring healing and and so I think that some people kinda know that and some people don't. But ⁓ yeah. So it's been cool to see. We've had ⁓ we've had a really good festival run. It's been a lot of fun.

speaker-0: Sometimes I feel like the the description of like faith based comes with so much expectations that like you had said, there are probably those who would watch a faith based film and be like, ⁓ this is a little bit too creepy, like I don't even know if it's Christian necessarily.

speaker-1: You hear flesh and blood? Yeah. Yeah, totally.

speaker-0: And and then being able to be in, you know, festivals that are to the point of like I don't even know if would watch some of these movies, ⁓ and some of these films. So it's it's kind of these sacred versus secular spaces. ⁓ I'd love to to know your thoughts more on, you know, even outside of filmmaking, but especially w just with an art and creativity. If you have any meditations on the the balance of like sacred versus secular, if if that's a divide that we really need to worry about or be super conscious of and if you just have like any meditations on that.

speaker-1: Yeah. I think that I mean art there's s you know, so many different types of art, right? So what does that mean per se for me is like I've like worshipped to music that wasn't made necessarily to worship to, but I also don't think that humans get To own it entirely. Like I don't think you get a own beauty just because you are part of making it, you know. And so if I worship to a song by someone who doesn't believe in God, it's like, well, you know, who made music and these notes and emotions and you know, it that was the Lord. And so I tend to feel like things don't need to be Christian to glorify God by any means. Beauty glorifies God. But on the other side of that coin, I think that I've also been around people that will ascribe everything to bringing glory to God that I don't feel is accurate. You know there's messaging that you can receive from something. I think a a like a base level entry for people who are like not into film probably the way we are, I would say is like don't judge it by what you're seeing. Judge it by what the messaging w the message you take away from it. At the very least, start there, you know, not just by like, ⁓ you're glorifying evil because evil was on screen. It's like

speaker-0: Definitely.

speaker-1: No, it doesn't mean you're glorifying it just 'cause it's there, you know.

speaker-0: There's a lot of lot of stories in the Bible I feel like you wouldn't appreciate

speaker-1: Yeah. One hundred percent. One hundred percent. Yeah, so I think the secular sacred divide, I think that ⁓ yeah, I think that there are lots of I think you can glorify God and not have a a story that's explicitly, you know, has a call to faith in it. Yeah, I feel like I ⁓ it's funny, I feel like I'd have so much more to say about it, but sometimes I'm like drawing a blanks right now. Is is there a specific part of it that sticks out to you that you're thinking of?

speaker-0: ⁓ I think just in recent years and just reading various books, like I'm I I have kinda like a a growing library over there in the corner of meditations on art and faith in general. And there's this great book by Francis Francis Schaeffer called Art in the Bible. And he has a great and it's like this thin of a book. It's like you know, super easy to get through, but it's so good. And I read it just a couple of years ago. And there's this part where he ⁓ talks about kinda like sacred versus secular and how for us to appreciate art, we don't necessarily we don't have to be ultimately like antagonistic towards a work just because it it's secular. Like we can enjoy it for like you were saying, the beauty and the craft and the the the even just like the artist behind it. and appreciate something and look into it and read into it and and you know, I I think I struggle with the the concept of like, you know, art's open to interpretation a little bit. ⁓ I think I think some art is like definitely created that way. I don't necessarily create in that sense, but also I don't like, you know, if somebody looks into something and it's like, I got this from it and It's like I I feel like this really represents the struggles between like addiction and faith. It's like I that's not part of my story, but I'm glad that you found it. Yeah. So in a sense like you know, I'm not I'm not resistant to it, but it's not exactly how I create where ch I think some artists and Christian artists do create that way. But it's interesting that that Schaefer points out that there is actually a a secular hymn, I guess, or a secular song in scripture.

speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

speaker-0: where it's a it's a song about I think Saul. And so it's like it's not pointing to it's not pointing to God, but it is a a song sung by the people, which are is the nation of Israel, and it is a secular song in the sense that like this isn't meant for worship within the temple. Like religious art made for the purpose of like spiritual ritual in a way. I think that's something that's really interesting that ⁓ today's world of like the genre

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: The dramatification of Christianity kinda misses that like we can participate in in making things that aren't necessarily for religious practice, but do were made with God, collaborating with God. Whether that's expressed in themes or just observation of beauty, like you said. Are just those are some of the things that I like I'm meditating on, I'm still kinda like building thoughts around it, but that's just something that comes to mind whenever

speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-0: The the secular versus sacred kind of debate comes up. Especially within Yeah, go ahead. If you're someone who loves apparel that shows your creative side while sharing your faith, I've just the thing for you. Our sponsor, the Printing Ox, has hooked us up with some t-shirts I designed that we're planning to launch later this summer. If you want to support the show, go ahead and pre-order one of the shirts. It has the Creative Chapel logo on the front, and on the back it says, You were made to create.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: With the scripture of Revelation 4.11 underneath. You might even recognize the design from our backdrop here at the studio. If you'd like to pre-order a shirt, visit the link in our description. And if you have any t-shirt needs for your church, business, or event, make sure to hit up my buddy Forrest at the PrintingOx. He does everything with quality and exemplifies the Creative Chapel spirit. Visit his link in the description as well. Alright, back to the show.

speaker-1: Yeah, I I think you're you're spot on. I think too you can see why a pastor or a youth pastor would be a little bit worried to tell people that if it's beautiful it glorifies God. 'Cause he thinks now there's like three hundred people in this room that are gonna go out and do God knows what, you know. But that's not the y just because of the consequences you're afraid of doesn't make it not true, you know? And so I think that ⁓ one thing I'm grateful for I feel like my pastor is like very ⁓ he's actually one of the people I had on the podcast, Jeremy Tree. He has a lot of great nut wisdom around like art and faith and and creating with God and but I Can see I think it hasn't been taught a lot because it sorta sounds like we're giving people a free pass. The church doesn't want to give a free pass to go make anything and be like, ⁓ look at this couple making love in full nudity. It's beauty, glorifies God, God made that. You know, and you're like ⁓ you know, so I think it's I get that, but I also think that we shouldn't try to take advice for a crowd. We should try to do like take it for ourselves as a creator. Like you also have your own convictions that you need to bring to the table the Lord convicts you of. And you don't want to push those away. You want to bring that into it and bring him into it, you know. I think one thing I I kept bumping up against early on was like, but all the Christian stuff is cheesy or bad. And now that's not the case. There now there's plenty of that. But there's now there's some other there's some outliers for sure. But I remember just being like, I just like don't know how to make it good. Like when I'm trying to make it good and address the stuff, it seems like it doesn't work. And I felt like one of the things the Lord has showed me over time is it's kinda like that same Apple metaphor I was talking about, right? So like y really what I would say is live it's it it's gonna require way more than we think. Live your life completely sold out. For Christ and seek first the kingdom and all his righteousness, you know. Do all of that. Put the order he would call you to live in. Like stir up, you know, what the scripture says. Live a life led by him. And that your desires align with his desires as you do that. And as you breathe in scripture, and like how like a tree absorbs the sun and the rain and brings it all in, and then it can't help but to produce apples that come out of the tree. And to me, apples like the fruit, or you could say it's like the good film, you know, or the good piece of artwork. It's like it's not so much that they have to if you do it right, you don't have to try to make apples. You just need to soak up the sun, you know, and you just need to t take in the rain, you know, the bring in the Lord. and it will just seep into it if you try to make like I'm gonna try to make something great for my s like that moves me. This is where my heart longs to go. And as you follow that path, and maybe it's not clear that it's gonna lead to something that glorifies God per se, but I think as you follow it, and you're like, ⁓ I wanna make this more meaningful, what would mean more to me? I it starts seeping in, you know, and those metaphorical apples I feel like start to appear. I feel like that's what I've been seeing. And like, so it's less about like, I gotta go do this, but it's more like you can't it it live in such a way that it just spills in, you know? Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, and I I can't really think of the the quote off the top of my head, but I feel like there's Tim Keller has kinda like spoken into that before. I I I had like the book in my in my Amazon cart on or on my one of my wish lists that I think he talks about that where it's like or organically what you are taking in, whether that be scripture or ⁓ just sermons, teachings, just your if the more that you are bringing in in and dwelling with the Holy Spirit, the more that it will just naturally flow out of you, organically flow out of you, versus like really like, I'm gonna grit my teeth and like, this is gonna be for the Lord in and trying to to force something. And I think this kinda like segues well into potentially moments that you might have fallen into that maybe you were trying to grit your teeth through it or ⁓ maybe you were just kinda like

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-0: I'm just gonna go and if something happens, happens. But have you ever felt conflicted within your creative journey? and you know, was it something that felt like the Holy Spirit was like really tugging you on to go a certain direction or maybe preventing you from going a certain direction? ⁓ I'd love for you to talk about any like confliction that you've had in your creative

speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ I mean yeah, all the time. I think to some degree. I was just talking about this with a friend. I was in one of the film I mean just recently one in the film festivals and I'm in this horror f film block, you know. ⁓ my film, I wouldn't call it a horror film, but it's ski the scary moment. So anyway, I'm in there and I'm just watching this and I brought my wife. And I really feel like this has like been a project we try to dedicate to the Lord. And like before we go in, we're I'm like, I think the Lord wants to do something. I'm not sure what it is. And I'm like we just pray, Lord, whatever you want to do, there's someone you want us to talk to or pray with. Let's just like go in open handed. So we go in and I'm watching and like the first film I'm like this is hard to watch. Not in a bad low quality way, but just in a like that's dark and sad. You know, and I'm already like actually really protective of what my wife watches. She's very sensitive to stuff like that. I feel like I like always try to curate the stuff so she'll enjoy it, you know? And I'm like, ugh. I'm like, all right, let's get to the next film. And it's like the same thing and same thing over and over. And some of them feel more and more evil. And then eventually there's like this like seance happening. And I'm sitting there and everything in my body is telling me to leave. And I really feel like the Holy Spirit was telling me to leave. And I'm like, lean over to her and I'm like, let's let's should we just go? And she's like, we are literally sitting surrounded by all the filmmakers.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: No, it was like all the filmmakers in there. And they literally told you at the beginning to not leave because you're surrounded by the filmmakers, you know? And j I know she was just being sweet. So then but I'm still feeling in my body like I we I gotta go. I should go. I feel like God is telling me to go. And I'm like getting more and more angry, but I'm not going. And I'm like, I just it will like it is I'm like literally they're right behind me, they're right here. I'm gonna have to like walk in front of the screen to leave, you know. ⁓ and so I just didn't go. And I watched sat through more and more of these that I it didn't feel like I should. And some of them were fine, but but a lot of them were like I just for me, my own conviction, I I was being told to leave, I felt like, and I didn't because I didn't want to make the people feel bad. And it was such a bummer. I was like this is like a fail for sure. And then that was the end of the night. ⁓ and I was I came in here, tried to do something for the Lord and I feel like what the Lord was telling me to do was leave. And not like don't go there per se, but ⁓ really what I came to see. I feel like the Lord was like, This is like it became a ⁓ a temp pull like turning point in my life, which is like, ⁓ as I'm on these festival runs, like new rule, I will always walk out of anything I feel convicted to walk out of to w at a drop of a hat. And nothing no person's no one's feelings are gonna stop me. You know I mean? Yeah. And we'll let the chips fall where they may. 'Cause it's like We have to do what God calls us to do and beyond that, you know, it's like it d none of it works anyway if I don't. So so that was like a learning moment thing where I was like, and then what to do from there? And so I really felt like you know, I I really believed like in fearing the Lord and not in like a shame scary way, but in the fact that He's like more powerful than anything anything. And so like ask for forgiveness. I got on my hands and knees and you know, asked for forgiveness and another time took communion at church and and yeah, and I just felt like that was like a turning point for me. So that's an example of having can you know, being convicted and not going or and not acting on it. There's been multiple times with commercials, I did a lot of commercials, or there's mainly two big ones that come to mind where I essentially just couldn't take I agreed to take the project and then they resent me the updated creative and I was like, This is celebrating Yeah. And I was like, Hey, I really liked the first one. Is there any way we can stick with that? And they're like, ⁓ no, this is already what's approved by the client. They they read they love you as a director, they've chosen you. We're we're now we're like setting the dates and eventually had to l this is like an agency that could h could hire me a lot, you know. Mm-hmm. And I was like, I can't do it, sorry, you know. Yeah. And so they just didn't respond after I said that and never I didn't hear from them. And I remember a year went by, I was talking to my community group And I was like, sometimes you just do something for the Lord and there is no fruit. I mean there they're s maybe spiritual fruit, but there's no positive result, you know. But what blew my mind is literally the next so I said that Tuesday night.

speaker-0: Yeah, definitely.

speaker-1: It been a year since I had turned it down. And then the next day I was at a coffee shop working and I got a call from them. And Like, hey man, how's it Like, Yeah, we got this project we think you'd be great for. Is it right if we submit you? I'm like, sure. And they submit me and got the job. And then I've gone on, they probably ⁓ hire me more than anybody else now. You know. And it was a year after they essentially ghosted me for a moment 'cause I I kinda put ⁓ in a bad spot, you know. Yeah. So I feel like the Lord like, Hey, don't tell people I don't bless you know. So it's like, Okay, fair enough. But, you know, and sometimes that blessing might just be in heaven, you know. But yeah, I do feel like it's worked down that sense. And there's other times I just have just not gotten work because of that. But that's generally not o often, but yeah, occasionally, you know.

speaker-0: Yeah, and I s you know, there's a lot of work to be had in LA and I think ⁓ most of the country I would say in between, you know, New York and LA probably think of those two places that'll as like dens of sin, but don't really count for like the the ministry that is happening there. But but still within those those spaces are s a lot of work that ⁓ I could see being challenging for Christians to operate in uncertain content and and what clients would want that's fashionable right now. And I have kinda like been curious of there's another gentleman that I want to ⁓ that I'm talking about getting on the show. who works for a raindrop agency down here in San Diego. And I I kinda like have a similar question to him of of when material comes your way that excites you and but there's still like that one thing that kinda like puts it off. Like how much like internal wrestling did you do between like being on board and then like kinda turning them down? Was it like a pretty quick decision? Did you like feel like you needed to talk 'cause like your finances are on the line too. ⁓ like

speaker-1: Yeah, I got kids and a wife.

speaker-0: Right. Provision for your family is there, so so how how fast was that like decision for you?

speaker-1: ⁓ so that that's a great question. And I like it a lot because I feel like it points at one of the most important parts of it, which is this has been like a s a growing spectrum. Like not that long ago. I mean, I guess I don't know, maybe it's longer now, but I would just take anything, you know. I didn't even I don't even not a hint of conviction about it. 'Cause I'm like, Well I'm not doing it. I'm just filming it or I'm just, you know, I'm just helping somebody do something they're trying to do, you know. and so there's work I've done that I'm like, ⁓ I'll definitely not do that today in the past. But I I feel like as I've felt like the Lord's called me more into these different spaces, I feel like that conviction has grown more and more or something's made that conviction grow more and more. And so I think yeah, I I think that to answer your question It's gotten quicker and quicker. It just becomes very quickly past fail for me, like whether or not I can do it. And God has always been faithful and provided. And sometimes it I've been freelance since I like sixteen. And sometimes it feels like I don't know if he's gonna do it this time, but like he's always we've always had a roof over our heads and we haven't gotten hungry, you know. And so Yeah, but I do think it has been a a spectrum where it was like slowly things started to bump me and I that's why I'm also a little more gracious, I think. I think s the job I turned down, potentially another Christian could take. My brother in law's a pastor and he's like, I kinda feel like I'm not even really supposed to watch T V and I'm like, I love that. Like I love it for him, you know what I mean? And I kinda feel like with my calling, I'm like, I feel like I'm kinda supposed to sometimes, you know? Yeah. And it's not like I think we wanna just like have a black or white choose one path, but I think that God has a relationship with us and a calling with us. And convictions come with that calling. And of course someone could use that as an excuse to do whatever they want. But you know, ultimately it's like between them and God and you know. Yeah, so I yeah, I kinda feel that's that would be my my answer.

speaker-0: Yeah, and to kinda like to follow that train of thought, ⁓ kinda leads me into another discussion point that ⁓ you know, there's when it comes to convictions, ⁓ I feel like as my buddy who is currently planting a church in Metro Detroit recently said to me, he said that the Bible there are times where the Bible is more just descriptive than prescriptive and there are obviously times that we can point to ⁓ prescription moments, but there's I think especially when it comes to some stories in the Old Testament, ⁓ there's times that ⁓ we hear certain things spoken from the pulpit that really try to like lock us into a specific kind of conviction that once we really check with the Holy Spirit we haven't really had. And so this is kinda like a a two part within that of I'd like to know if there's any lies of the enemy that you've kinda like

speaker-1: Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: worked through and maybe that's you know, not necessarily even like lies of the enemy, but just things that you've had to like parse out from what you've heard from the pulpit. So those are two different buckets there, but you know, still like I feel like there's there's moments where it's like I I'll hear something from the pulpit and be like, I can I can appreciate that and know it, but I don't think it is actually what I'm supposed to do. Not that it's like not biblical, but just that how the Holy Spirit has wired me and designed me, I think there is a way for this to implement into my life differently. So like kinda working through eyes of the enemy, working through things heard from the pulpit that you have had to like kinda in a way reconstruct. And then and so kinda like paired with that one is like things that Christian creatives need to outgrow that we might have heard from the pulpit, might have heard from Christian culture or anything like that. So I know it's like kinda three things in there at once thrown at you, but

speaker-1: Yeah. Totally. I the very first thing that just pops in my mind is an old one. But I had a pastor that was talking about essentially just like, ⁓ and if you're gonna sin, like sin this way because it's less bad and it's less destructive. And obviously you don't shouldn't you don't wanna sin, but if you're going to, here's a you know, like do it like this. You know, not like showing you how to sit, you know, but like with sort of this idea of like just trying to like here's how you can try to manage that. You know, and I think it was just trying to be practical. But I think one of the biggest things I found going through my like depression stuff and the Bible stuff is like do not like even try to keep sin like in a cage, like kill it, murder it to death. And watch how much more freeing it is. It's like living with a disease that's torturing you. Just a little bit of cancer, you know, whatever. It's like, no, like it's actually way I think it's way easier to put it to death. than it is to try to just like manage it and have you know do good, you know, try to like, you know, ⁓ do like a better version of failing. And I get it, like we're all gonna struggle. We all fall short of the glory of God. But I do think that there was some maybe in maybe some of it's like some unspoken messaging that came with that too, which was sort of like, this is just what it's gonna be. And then we'll die and go to heaven. Mm-hmm. And I think that's like the amount of freedom found and like get r I mean just tell everybody about your sin. Get people who actually care and love you involved. The first thing you can do if you can't stop is you can be honest. Be honest. And now you just shine light on darkness. It's already halfway dead. You know, and now bring in people to help ask for forgiveness. Like, you know, spiritual warfare. Like all the you to I'm like just just just like as if your job is to murder it. Figure out how to murder it, you know. ⁓ and not that I'm like some flawless person now, but but I just think that was a something I learned that was a game changer. And that's not really creative related, but I think it it kind of any type of sin, I see it as like a little bit of cancer and it just makes everything not work, you know? Yeah. And and then I think it's part two, sort of what you're saying as far as like messages from the enemy, I mean writing like was so difficult. And I wanna be honest, and like lately it kind of is been a little bit, but I I'm kind of

speaker-0: Definitely.

speaker-1: reminding myself of what God has done. But I felt like there's times when I would like I'm like, it doesn't have to be good, just write. I like I felt like God was saying write twenty minutes a day, right? And like that was sometimes a battle where I was like I would literally like I'm like, okay, you have to stay sitting down and I would like start like almost like shaking angry and like wanting to like jump out of the room and scream, you know? And there was this fear in there, I think, that was like, Your taste, you've been a filmmaker. That was your thing. Like everything relies on this. It's You know, and I think the enemy tries to to stop it from happening. And I think that there's like a resistance. Anything that you're part of your calling, there's a resistance too. And not that I'm like, I'm called to be the greatest writer in the world, but I do feel like it is a part of my calling to some degree. ⁓ and I think the enemy's gonna attack that. And I think that probably a lot of writers I talk to have felt the same resistance, you know. And so I think that to be honest, what I had did is I had people pray over me. I had my sister and she like prayed a deliverance like any spirit of, you know, whatever, go away and and then she was like, No act your faith, do what you couldn't do. I'm like, what, you wanna write a script right now? And she's like, write something. And so I like wrote just on a piece of paper, wrote like a dumb little dialogue scene. You know, nothing didn't use it. But I think that acting the faith or I I'm I won't I won't try to diagnose. But I well I can't say since that moment completely changed. ⁓ and I was able To start writing and that fear. Now it like how it should be, like a more normal type of writing, where it's like this like fear and this like dread. So much dread, you know. ⁓ so I feel like that the the voice from the enemy is like, This is bad, this is bad, this is bad. And I'm like, Yeah, you're right, of course it's bad. We haven't gotten to our tenth draft yet. You know what I mean? Like it has to be bad before it's gonna be good. And my taste and my my value has nothing to do with what I'm typing on this piece of paper or, you know, computer. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a Like the enemy I feel like really tried to do that. And I I as I'm like finishing the festival run, and I'm like, all right, time to write. Like I sort of feel like I'm given the choice. I'm experiencing this now where I'm like, I can sort of like keep delaying it and trying like not wanting to write and be like, I'll maybe I'll chat GPT some like outline ideas with this and the you know and it's like anything but rate, you know. And so I feel like that's one thing I was Rector pregnant today, I felt like it like, ⁓ now it's we're back to twenty minutes a day. You know what I mean? Back to doing it. So anyway, that would be my my answer. Nice.

speaker-0: And so it are there anything that is there anything that comes to mind when it comes to things that Christian creatives need to outgrow?

speaker-1: ⁓ I'm sure there's tons, right? ⁓ I mean I think like we talked about w one is definitely like that it has to be about God mm-hmm to glorify him. Or that it's bad if it's not. That it's secular or it's Christian and it's secular and that's bad because it's not about God, you know? Yeah.

speaker-0: Which is funny 'cause like we don't as consumers approach most works that way. I think if if there is a spot that we do, I would say maybe music, depending on what you know, theological background that you come from or denominational background that you come from. You know, the youth pastor kinda going back to what you said earlier is, you know, ⁓ probably more encouraging like you to listen to Christian music. ⁓ but ⁓ when it comes to like I I noticed this going to church last year is that we would

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: We would exit church, had a great service, ⁓ and then we're all just hanging out and immediately we start talking about a movie we just watched and it's like, ⁓ we just watched Guy Richie's ⁓ you know, The Wrath or what was it? Wrath of Man or you know, talking about any other movie that really isn't Christian by any means, or even with the pastor being like, ⁓ yeah, we just watched Severance all these different shows and and like shows that we love but then when it comes to like when people

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: try to create something that's like kind of faith adjacent I guess is kinda how I describe it, where it's like it is it is kinda like faith based but it's not like, you know, God's not dead faith based. ⁓ then there's like high criticism over that. because it's not following the tropes of of the the genre of Christianity as ⁓ creative work. And so yeah, I I feel like

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-0: acknowledging that and and noticing that, like there there are secular works that we're enjoying and if as a c creator who is a Christian I'm making something that is not exactly like, you know, easily identifiable within the box of Christian media or or Christian creativity. If there's not these tropes and these themes in it, then it's inherently like bad. We just don't approach the rest of media that way or you know, especially media, but

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: other creative works. So

speaker-1: Yeah, totally. Yeah, I I think that ⁓ I'm almost gone full circle where and this probably will land for more like you and me than like people that aren't not really like keeping their eyes on what's going on in like faith space, but I've almost gone where I'm like initially I was like, ⁓ for prodigal for my nonprofit and like studio films and stuff that I want to do, I'm like over it's like, ⁓ it's about not being afraid of the dark. Like that's that's thing. And then I'm like, I kinda actually feel like I find now I'm finding a lot of Christians that like, Yeah, we're not afraid to do the dark stuff. But then I'm like, I think maybe may now it's almost like going the other way. We're like, they're almost afraid of the light. Like they're afraid to do something that would involve someone being healed. Like they they the d to end it can s like const to construct something positive at the end versus to leave it neutral or destruct something. I like there's lot of people that are in this lane of like not the cheesy Christian stuff, but they're in this lane of like decon ⁓ I'm gonna just use this to deconstruct something. And it's an act of faith because I'm deconstructing something and and I don't I'm not gonna say that it's it's that's all bad per se, but I do f sort of feel like I'm like, ⁓ now I'm like more interested in the like can you land the plane in both like can you tell a story of light but in the darkest place, you know? And it doesn't have to be cheesy in this big way, but like having something of hope and whenever at so many of the screenings I do, the question they end with is ⁓ what feeling do you want your audience to leave with? And because that's all these scary films people are I want people to be like, ⁓ crap or ⁓ you know or like ⁓ you know, all this stuff. And I'm like and then it comes to me and I'm like, Hope. I want them to leave with hope, you know. And so I think that was kind of like a telling point for me. I'm like, ⁓ I see why it's what I'm trying to do is little bit different than what's here, you know. But Yeah.

speaker-0: And as like a final note on that, ⁓ I think this links back to you know previous questions, but I think it's so cool to like that be an answer at a horror film festival. Like that is such a cool thing to have in such a dark place and it's it reminds me of of like I love hardcore music. ⁓ you know, and as a as a song recommendation, there's this awesome band called For Today. I don't know if you know it. ⁓ cool, I'd try down. They have a song called Flesh and Blood and it's a really dope song. So I'll I'll have to send it to you. But it's like those guys who are willing to go into these, you know, mosh pit, almost, you know, the s satanic kind of imagery that surrounds hardcore music, but to be the light in those spaces. Likewise, like if we have people who are like too too holy to go make a film that could be interpreted as thriller or horror to the point that like, you know, we can play at those kind of festivals, then like Then those people are just trapped in their darkness and trapped into the place of like those feelings of fear, feelings of dread, feeling of you know, ⁓ like just hopelessness. ⁓ and so, you know, I'd I think it's so cool that you're able to go into that that space and and say, My film is about hope, even though it's packaged in this kinda like creepy, you know, setting. But

speaker-1: Yeah. Thanks, man.

speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ as we kinda like wind out of the show I got kinda like three last questions. ⁓ the last two are kinda like more fun questions. ⁓ but I'd love to know if there's like a feature on the horizon for you if you're working on any projects that are on that's kinda like an end goal for me with my film Sons of Thunder is getting into the future stage, so I'd love to know if if you have anything that you're you're working on like that.

speaker-1: Yeah, definitely. To a fault. ⁓ there is there's a film called Monster that is kind of like a sci fi kind of like children of men Logan vibe that working with a writing partner and we're pretty much done with our second draft there. That I I love a l I love it a lot. I would say it feels like it's like a cousin to Flesh and Blood. It's like it's less in like the scarier space, but more in like this, you know, ⁓ other space. But so there's one there, there's I mean th I to be honest, there's probably about six that have some from from outlines to s to to descripts, you know, different phases. I'm also attached to a ⁓ short film I almost I don't know if it's would be called a pilot, but and it's a retelling of ⁓ Rahab story, the the prostitute that's in the lineage of Jesus. And it's a cool project that I'm excited for. That's kind of one of the things I'm working on the most right now. So it's quite a bit stuff, but also I always wanna say this part 'cause I feel like people don't say this part, it's like people are like Wow, that's great. And I'm like, these are just things I'm doing that no one is paying me for that I feel really drawn to do that I do in my free time. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like it could turn into things that get paid for, obviously. But I do think some people are like, ⁓ we're in development. I'm like, Well, what development means is that I am trying to write into it or I have an email I'm sending someone to remind them to h hit these notes or you know, so I also want to like be realistic of what that means, you know. But it it's also it's exciting. I th there's quite a few stories I'm excited to do. A lot of and they're all pretty much features or like ⁓ one's a short. ⁓ so

speaker-0: Nice. Well Nathan, just based off like three minutes of I saw what I saw at ⁓ the Hard Faith of Flesh and Blood, like I'm you know, I'm pumped to see what else you make and you know, I would love to to help you in that journey however I can. And so I'm really excited for for what's in the future for you and and what you create. And so the last two questions that I kinda like like to end the show with, I'd love to know like what's inspiring you right now, what are you watching, reading, listening to that

speaker-1: Thanks, man.

speaker-0: You know, it's kinda like a you know, unpaid endorsement in a way of ⁓ some work that is inspiring you right now.

speaker-1: Yeah. This is I don't know if this is controversial or not. I it shouldn't be. But the House of David series on Amazon Prime, I was kind of going in and being like, There's no way this is gonna be good. It's it's too big of a story to tell. There's no way this is gonna be good. And maybe some lame part of me kinda wanted it to not be good. I'm not sure why. The flesh of me wanted Only I could make something, you know. Something stupid. But after about three episodes I was like This is really good. Like at least for me. Obviously all art subjective. But I'm like I re I s like send it out to my my friends and they start watching it and they're like, I love it. And ⁓ season two just recently came out and I feel like like as you get into it, I'm like this is doing a better job with characters and like character arcs and relationships than a lot of stuff is, you know. So anyway, I want to like I feel like every filmmaker is weirdly scared to be like, This is a good film ⁓ because we're like, Well, technically there's things about it you could change and But the reality is I'm like, yeah, they're doing a great job with that show and I gotta give it credit where credit's due, you know. So I didn't mean to name a essentially a Christian thing, but it you know, it's cool for me. So I'm gonna throw it out there.

speaker-0: Yeah, there's no there's no real ⁓ you know, stipulation between what's inspiring you or what you're appreciating right now. So I haven't started The House of David yet, and I haven't started The Chosen really yet. So those are both on my watch list. ⁓ yeah. But yeah. ⁓

speaker-1: In my opinion, those are the two best. And the chosen takes even longer to get going where you care. But I will say by like season three, like I'm like, this is really good, and I'm like weeping. And now the cinematic the cinematography got really good, the editing and the writing, you know, like I feel like it it dramatically leveled up its game. Yeah. So anyway, and it understood.

speaker-0: Yeah, I haven't heard a lot of people praise House of David. Not because good, but just because I d haven't heard people do it. So, you know, it's nice to hear ⁓ and makes me more excited to check it out. And so my last question I'm still I'm still test driving this question. ⁓ it's just kinda like a silly one to end the show with. If you were ⁓ a vegetable in veggie tails, what vegetable would you be? You could either just be a vegetable or you could be a character.

speaker-1: I've an easy. Hmm. Praise God. It's good. It's good. Well, I appreciate the Vegetail shout out, because that's deep cuts for for a lot of us. ⁓ and I definitely did grow up on Veggie Tales. So I mean every everyone knows that Larry the Cucumber is the funny one. He's also the hero, Larry Boy. Mm-hmm. But I'm gonna go with the asparagus because he's tall.

speaker-0: ⁓ great. Yeah, I'm still I'm still working on what ⁓ how I would answer that. I think where I line up is maybe junior, ⁓ because I'm short. Well then I would end the view. Well cool. Well thank you so much Nathan for being a part of this episode ⁓ and lending your voice to Creative Chapel. If people want to follow along, ⁓ would you provide your links and maybe talk just a little bit about ⁓

speaker-1: So

speaker-0: your nonprofit and give some some links to that and I'll try to link ⁓ in the show notes.

speaker-1: I think probably the best way the best way is like my Instagram because that's really gets the most updates more than anything. So you can find links you can find the short film on at Nathan Presley Instagram. You can find ⁓ prodigal at Nathan Presley on Instagram. And prodigal essentially is my non profit. There's quite a few things we're doing. One of them is the Art and Faith podcast. So if you just search Art and Sign Faith on YouTube or Spotify, it will come up. So that's like designed to help empower people, but also Prodigal sorry, empower artists of faith. One of the things Prodigal is working towards and is currently raising money for is we're doing like the world's biggest screenwriting contest, like prize. So it's gonna be a hundred thousand dollars. No strings attached, just a gift for the best script that's kind of in this lane. And that lane will be described more, but I would call it like a story of light in a dark place, you know, like rated R friendly if it's the right type of rated R, you know. So that's one and that should help create the demand. Like I I know a lot of great writers in LA and they're like, ⁓ I would totally do they're Christians like I would totally write something, but like there's no demand for it. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, let's create the demand for this. And then curate these good scripts and like get them to people, you know. So that's one of the things. ⁓ there's also like Down the road there's sort of like essentially like Sundance Labs meetups where we like some of the people on my podcast, some of the working filmmakers come together and you know, ⁓ do like maybe like eight people and do like sessions and try to help projects and stuff. So things like that. But I once again all that I would say just go to on Instagram at Nathan Presley and you can find all the stuff there.

speaker-0: Nice. Well awesome. ⁓ thanks again for being on the show. And ⁓ everyone make sure to go check out his links. I'll link them in the show notes. ⁓ all right, Nathan. Thanks for thanks for being a part of the show. Thanks for watching this episode of the Creative Chapel podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow along to stay up to date on more episodes. We're shooting out of Communion Church in San Diego, California. If you're looking for a great church to be a part of,

speaker-1: Absolutely. Thanks, man.

speaker-0: This is the place to be. Stay faithful, stay creative, and I'll see you in the next episode.