Recovery, leadership, and being a truthful storyteller with Paul Giret

speaker-0: Welcome to Creative Chapel, a podcast exploring the vast landscape of Christian artistry. Across denominations and disciplinary mediums, Creative Chapel is building a space where saints can gather and celebrate their walk with Christ with their God-given gifting, encouraging each other in their faith and their craft. Creative Chapel is the place for inspiration, curation, and revelation. Welcome to Creative Chapel. I'm your host Chris Mack, and today I am joined by Paul Garrett, a filmmaker based out of San Diego, who has a passion for helping people tell their stories beyond the limits of the major studio system. Paul has operated within many roles within filmmaking as a cinematographer, an editor, a producer, a director, working on projects such as music videos, feature-length films, commercials, documentaries. And so as someone who has worked under his wing briefly, ⁓ I got to experience him on set and I'm excited for you all to hear his story and ⁓ experiences. And so, Paul, welcome to the show.

speaker-1: Happy to be here, man. Appreciate you just inviting me and letting me share in the space.

speaker-0: Yeah, after we collaborated on ⁓ a documentary that you're working on, which I'm really excited for, and I'm excited to talk about that ⁓ later in the show. ⁓ it was just like a no-brainer be like, ⁓ yeah, Paul should totally be on show. ⁓ and so ⁓ I got to hear your testimony at Faith and Film, and that's where we originally got connected was ⁓ Joel McGuinty's group, Faith and Film. I've name dropped Joel so many times so far on Creative Chapel. Yeah, him on the show too. ⁓ and so But yeah, I got to hear your testimony there and your experiences and it was ⁓ really inspiring. ⁓ and I got to revisit that a little bit as I was pre preparing for the show. ⁓ so I'd love the audience just to have a background of your story. ⁓ there's a lot of cool threads to pull on within it. And so yeah, kinda give give us a rundown of who you are, where you came from, your journey into faith, creativity and

speaker-1: Totally. I was not a believer all my life, not raised in the church by any means. ⁓ my parents gave me the opportunity to kinda make the decision for myself. ⁓ for better or for worse, ⁓ that was what they decided. ⁓ so just kinda went off into the world and did whatever I wanted, got really heavy into the art scene, which also came with a lot of drugs and abuse and alcohol. Not that everyone in the art scene is that way, but it seemed like my path led me down that because I felt like inspiration was derived from a substance was really kind of the mentality that I was in and kind of the mentality of all the people that I was around. ⁓ and the deeper and deeper I got into the art scene, it seemed like the deeper and deeper I got into the drug scene and worked my way out of that, you know, ⁓ was not an easy thing to let go of, but it took me really kind of getting to a place where I thought I was in an area of success. I thought I had achieved something that was my goal, but I was empty, suicidal, depressed, and still searching for more. And at that point I just kinda had to leave everything behind. So friends from high school and beyond. ⁓ that with relationships that I had built for years and yeah, decades. ⁓ not just like close hangout relationships but also like working relationships and art projects and things. I really had to just let all that go, which was not easy because that was like everything I loved at that point had to be given up. So did that, let go of everything. ⁓ 33 years old, I moved back with my parents and they took me in and gave me a room and I got back on my feet and pretty much fixed everything in my life. ⁓ physically, mentally, and then spiritually came. And I wrestled with it because, you know, it always seemed during my journey that always being a person that pursued truth. in my journey and going down rabbit holes of conspiracy theories and everything, ⁓ the Bible came up often. Jesus came up often. ⁓ God was constantly pouring into me and I continue to push it away because anyone that has done enough research into any sort of subject matter to find the truth of it knows that it always ends at God, questions about God. You can ask why about any subject matter and it always comes down to the you know the the the wrestling between faith and non faith. ⁓ Whatever conspiracy theory you want to talk about. And I did a lot of that in my As a filmmaker, I did a lot of social justice things. So, you know, chemtrails, fluoride in the water, like you name it, any sort of conspiracy-based thing, that was where I poured my ⁓ work into and helped out with. ⁓ but even there, you ask the questions why and dig into the questions why, and every single time I would be, you know, facing God and he would be pushing the Bible in my direction. And I would push it away. But every time I pushed it away, it was a little bit closer, a little bit closer. And then finally, fixing my life again and getting everything back on track, you know, I toyed with Buddhism and like all the other kind of religions and picked up whatever, you know, their equivalent of the Bible was and kind of dove in and Had a friend who suggested, like, just give the Bible a chance. Like you've been pushing it away, you've been rejecting it. I know this is hard for you because it's like basically admitting that you've been wrong for the majority of your life. But like just give it a chance because if nothing else, can you at least admit that it does a lot of good in the world and that it's been protected for thousands of years through wars and like just give it a chance. And I picked it up and I started reading it. And I haven't put it down since. And that's just kind of it wasn't like I had a huge God moment. I think there were many huge God moments that I minimize along the way, especially now trailing back to all the things that I went through where I could have been arrested and put in prison for life because of the substances that I had in my backpack or Brawls that I was part of where people got seriously injured. ⁓ I OD'd several times. I have many friends that are no longer with us or now are in prison for life for the things that we were part of. And just the grace that I received in those situations because God had a bigger plan for me. I can look back. And it's like back then it was a question of like, you know, there is no God, He's not here, kind of thing. his presence has always been with me and he had a calling for me, I can trail back to those situations in the brawls, in the drug overdoses, just in those situations where my life could have been, you know, I could have been institutionalized in either mental institutions or jails or death. ⁓ He was there. And he was the one that was guiding me away from those situations because he had a bigger plan for me to come to where I am now. And that's why every day when I wake up now, you know, it's like thank you God, my first breath is always and it's knowing that I had a second chance in life. And I definitely don't take that for granted at all because I was taking life for granted back then and the fact that I have this second chance is astounding. ⁓ want me to go a little further on this of a recent revelation that came from piggybacking on that? So I was diagnosed with the disease shortly after I quit everything. Cigarettes, you know, was sober. I've been over so sober for over ten years now. and cigarettes I think was one of the last things I quit. And shortly after that, I got diagnosed with a stomach condition called ulcerative colitis. So here I was like abusing my body for 15 years of my life, super healthy dude, never had any issues, now I quit everything. And like living a super healthy life. I eat really good food because my wife just is always getting the best ingredients. And I get a disease. I'm like, God, what are you what are you doing, man? And it gets worse and worse. ⁓ I think I got diagnosed three or four years ago and it keeps getting worse. And I was down for like four months where my energy was low, I couldn't do anything. ⁓ and the inflammation, which is the main source of the problem in my gut, spread to like my joints. And I couldn't walk. Like I was walking with a cane, it got that bad. And I'm like, God, what's going on here, man? I'm like doing your work. Like, and I'm praying and I'm like reading all these books of healing and try to figure that out. And I found some astonishing things about healing. But outside of that, like one of them, and I was trying everything that the books were recommended. So the book is like, ask God to show you what your life is like healed. So pray to him and thank him as if you're already healed. And then ask him to show you what that life looks like. So I did, and he answers, and it is the first time I heard him talk during this four months, and he says, This is your healed life. Diseased, broken, unable to walk without the help of a cane. And he reminded me: like, I took you out of where you were, and this is where you are now. Your soul is saved. This is your life. And it just like pulled me back into this like humble place, Ross. Just like all of a sudden so grateful and no longer frustrated with the d like, you know, the problems in my physical body. And I was reminded My soul was saved because of what he did on the cross. So it was not like since then now it's just like this area of gratefulness where I'm just like, dude, it's not about like, yes, sure, pray for things currently, pray for things in your future, absolutely, but start with what he's already done. Because that's what it's really all about. That's the centering. And as long as you center everything in that, move into the future stuff, move into the current stuff. But That is the most important. It's not about what he can do for you, it's what he's already done for you. Yeah. And I this was three or four months ago. And it's just completely shifted my perspective on my faith. And it's just like this growing process. Ever since I picked the Bible up and haven't put it down, man, you just get these opportunities to build your relationship with him. And he just shows you how good he is. It's wonderful. So that's my journey.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's ⁓ that's powerful testimony. I feel like in this season of life, ⁓ you know, I've kinda ⁓ mentioned on the podcast a little bit of ⁓ just the struggles that my wife and I are going through right now with you know she's unemployed. I'm trying to get back into freelancing 'cause no one's hiring, but ⁓ and so I'm getting a little frustrated with like, okay God, like why does it seem like I am just the most unemployable person on the face of the earth. and I've had l a lot of ⁓ answered prayers in that too. But you there's a certain frustration when there's certain repeated things in life and you're you're just wondering like why is this happening and we always kinda like chalk it up to some cosmic fatal fatalistic thing happening in life, but ⁓ missing the deeper ⁓ things that God is trying to bring us through or the story that he's ultimately crafting in the end. So I think that's great reminder to people who are, you know, whether they're struggling with things in their career, health issues, ⁓ dealing with loss or anything like that is just going outside of themselves to think about the grace of God and the goodness of God and how that is still going despite hard times, despite bad things happening. And so I really appreciate ⁓ you sharing that. For sure. ⁓ and so I'd love to dive in a little bit ⁓ into your story more with ⁓ Thinking about like your social justice work, ⁓ when you were kinda like in that scene, ⁓ and you you discovered your faith a little bit more in God showed up in the scene. ⁓ did you find that ⁓ those passions were still there but through a different lens, or do you feel like God just shifted things altogether with social justice?

speaker-1: ⁓ no, I mean that was always the heart of social justice definitely exists, but it's like, you know, Jesus didn't come here to fix our social justice issues, you know. ⁓ if he wanted to, he could have. Yeah. He could've ended slavery, he could have ended ⁓ hunger, he could have ended all those issues. ⁓ it's God. He's powerful enough to do that, but know he's not a s he doesn't come here to solve social justice. He came here to save our souls, more importantly. And I think that's like a lot it's hard for a lot of people to digest that, you know, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't still be doing those good works through people. You know, we're called to help the people that are vulnerable and needy. ⁓ it's not like that's what you're gonna find salvation in, but the closer you walk with God and the closer you come to Jesus, you can't help but want to do those sorts of things. So it's all incorporated in getting closer and closer and walking with Him. ⁓ So I think that's what shifted for th for me was the understanding behind it, like thinking that I was a good person back then because I was doing that. Now it's the understanding that there are no good people. And ⁓ you know, all we can do is just try and strive for obedience and just loving and like from him to him, from him to him. ⁓ and just getting closer and closer to this is like kneeling down and saying, Holy, holy, right? That's like That's the strive, that's the pursuit, ⁓ as opposed to trying to find things thinking that my documentary is gonna fix the world. You know, by no means. It's more smaller things now and understanding the importance of relationships as opposed to like just trying to do these bigger things that I think are gonna shift the consciousness of people that really just don't wanna listen to begin with. Yeah. ⁓ so you're just preaching to the choir when you're making a documentary about, you know, fluoride or whatever you're doing. ⁓ it's more Now I understand getting in small groups of people that also have the same faith or don't and want to just like sharpen each other and just become essences of the world that can just bring on better days for people that are just having a hard time.

speaker-0: Yeah, and as, you know, working on ⁓ the film with you and I was like directly as a a grip within your team for two days. ⁓ you know, I could feel that on set. It's like just cultivating a ⁓ a team and a presence it doesn't mean like that just erases frustrations or anything like that, but you know, you could really s feel the sense of like encouragement, supporting one another, ⁓ covering each other's slack, but also holding each other to a standard ⁓ and just opening up opportunities for people. ⁓ and that was really cool. And I want to get into that more a little bit later. Sure. Thanks for being an early listener of the Creative Chapel podcast. As a new show it means so much that you're here. Please like, subscribe, and download our episodes to keep the momentum going. And share it with a friend who could use encouragement in their creative journey. Alright, back to the show. So I think on a a practical note, ⁓ I'd like you to talk about your kinda like journey into filmmaking, 'cause you ⁓ have mentioned like coffee work in the past and then how like video work was just kinda like sitting there. And so I'd love for so I think there's probably people in the audience who are probably sitting on talents that don't realize that could be eventually something bigger and greater. So

speaker-1: Yeah, well, it was never a career choice by any means. Yeah, I started playing with video and V V VHS to VHS editing and you know, my parents bought a panesthetic, panasonic G H whatever back. You know, it was a S VHS thing that popped out and then popped up and you know and then thing that you had to stick inside of the bigger VHS thing and then you stick that in the VCR and that was just kind of like where I started learning. And I fell in love with it. I've always loved toying with wires and hooking things together, but I guess capturing, you know, video was definitely cool. You know, skate videos with friends, school projects, things like that. And then just like kind of moving into and growing up with the technology and having the opportunity to just Computers weren't even a thing back then and it wasn't until junior year of high school when I got access to my first editing computer, because the school bought one and they were super expensive back then and it was like in the back room of the library. And you know, I just kind of would do that and like My professor or the professors, my teachers knew how much I loved doing it, that they would seriously let me skip class just to go and edit and s stay in the library. And I was doing school projects, but it wasn't just my projects. I would take on the other kids' projects in the class and edit their stuff. And for whatever reason, they just let me do my thing. They noticed something special in me back then. Even there was a second editing computer that I realized I found in a there was ⁓ like the TA section of the history department. And I ended up getting to be the teacher's aide for that teacher specifically, because I knew he had the editing computer. And he was a basketball coach. And he would let me stay in his room and edit on his computer while he was like coaching basketball. So I would able to stay after school while it for like an extra two hours while he took coached the basketball team. And then he would come back in and pop his head in. I'd still be clicking away in whatever it was, Pinnacle, which was Avid's like pro Sumer version that you could install. install on things back then and I would be chunking away at that you pop it in just lock your lock the door when you leave bro so yeah that was kind of like the what sparked it's but in I never took it seriously as a job. I didn't want to go to school for it like nothing like that. And as I grew older in my twenties like I went in a lot of coffee shops. That was just kind of where I landed. ⁓ I bopped around different ones all over San Diego. That was a pretty good barista I must say but

speaker-0: Which feels like a very artsy place to be. There's a vibe. We we had ⁓ do you know Shepherd's Coffee? ⁓ it's a great s shop. kinda close to downtown. ⁓ but we had the owner in the podcast and he's a Christian, he's talked about his story. So we had we've had an episode on the craft of coffee. So, you know, it it is very ⁓ artistic.

speaker-1: Okay, cool. It's a culinary art, for sure. I mean you can a lot of people don't treat it that way, but I When I started, I had a boss who took that very seriously. And she showed me all the ways of like doing it. And so so from the moment it was my first opportunity of doing, I start actually back up. I started at Starbucks and then finally realized there was more to it and started getting into that. And she was the first person that showed me how to like steam milk milk appropriately and actually do the espresso art. And that's the correct timing of pulling an espresso sharp shot and dialing in like the grind so that you could actually have the right timing. Because espresso shot needs to be poured like 20 seconds to 24 seconds, otherwise, it's not appropriate in terms of the extraction of the oil so that you can have the appropriate reaction in your body and heating up the cup because it has to be introduced at a certain temperature. There's like a lot more to it that a lot of people don't think about. And like now, I want to go to a coffee shop, I'll watch the baristas and I'll know what coffee shops to go to because there are certain shops that I can tell they're taught how to do it appropriately, and other ones where they just do whatever and they're wiping the steam wand with the same thing, they're wiping the counters. I'm like, okay. But so yeah, I appreciate coffee. ⁓ I don't drink it as much as I used to because of my tumtum, but you know, ⁓ I still do definitely appreciate the art of it. So yeah, totally artsy thing. And cafes are a place where conversations happen and there aren't a lot of third spaces outside of the home and the work where people get together and gather, where there isn't alcohol involved, where people actually like sit down and converse with each other. So there's a lot of like culture that happens in coffee shops as well. So yeah, it's a vibe, it's an artsy thing. But so I was the artist behind the bar, but also like outside of the world. I was doing all sorts of what I still do today is video art. ⁓ so like projection mapping and ⁓ VJ work because I worked with a lot of musicians, so I would do their live performance video stuff that would happen on the screens as they were performing music videos. ⁓ But never really took it seriously as a job. It was always just like it was what I did when I went home. It was my hobby ⁓ and my passion. ⁓ so eventually someone decided to pay me to do some stuff on a documentary thing, music-related. ⁓ it was for a nonprofit. Project Rhythm Seed, if I remember. ⁓ the guy, I don't remember what his band was, but it was like a nineties rock metal band. ⁓ eulogy, I think it was. He was a great dude. But yeah, he started paying me to do things and I got in rooms with like okay go and switch foot and ⁓ you know did the video work and interviews and filmed them doing these live performance. I would end up on his website that would raise money for charity. So it was very social justice related and everything seemed to kinda be in line with like, you know, the things that I felt that I wanted to be involved with and Getting a couple paychecks felt nice and it opened and I was like, wait a minute, I can make money doing this. So it just kinda evolved from sorry, evolved from ⁓ Coffee in the morning to doing it for fun at night to less and less coffee. It went from like full-time coffee job to part-time coffee job. Part-time coffee job, barely any hours in a week, because I was making enough money doing that. And then I started going to instead of doing strictly documentary and like music videos of whatever else I was doing, I wanted to make films. ⁓ I saw the power of storytelling. And I was like, dude, that's when I had the realization of like I'm just preaching to the choir, making these documentaries. I'm not impacting the way I do, where I can make a narrative film and really kind of like pull on people's heartstrings and like develop scripts that can get people thinking a certain way about certain issues. And that's when I was like, okay, I'm gonna go to school. Went to city college, took whatever, three or four years to get my two-year degree, ⁓ but built a community there. Met a lot of good people, started a business with ⁓ one of the professors there, which is still around today. ⁓ just like really just like everything became film. Like coffee wasn't even a thing anymore. And by the time I graduated I was making enough money on a regular basis to sustain myself. I had bought enough equipment to go out and shoot. And everything else just kinda started moving forward from there. Just strictly camera and editing.

speaker-0: Nice. Yeah, like I said, I think a lot of creatives ⁓ sit on giftings that ⁓ they whether they're photographers, graphic designers, ⁓ painters, illustrators, poets, whatever, ⁓ I feel like there are things that they are just thinking a hobby and just something that like no one would take interest in. ⁓ and it's it's cool to see how that like You're just enjoying coffee, enjoying the craft of it, and then enjoying your hobby and then the transition of of hobby into profession ⁓ happens and you know, you're still going strong with that ⁓ today with with ⁓ you know, filmmaking and you have a like a full time spot too, right?

speaker-1: Well, it's ⁓ a s a ki consistent client. Okay. Yeah. Right. Nice. Right. Yeah.

speaker-0: And so your work through freelancing, through filmmaking, ⁓ has opened a lot of doors for you. And so one of those doors that I think is really cool, ⁓ is being a part of various panels for San Diego Comic Con. ⁓ and so you've led some panels and there's there's ⁓ an aspect of your story that I was researching that, you know, it's like you had an opportunity Comic Con and then you thought that maybe that was kinda done, then you got to kinda revisit that and like ⁓ could you share that story?

speaker-1: Yeah, it was a total God story, full circle. ⁓ the last major thing I did before I quit and moved back home with my parents and that whole part of my story was a panel at Comic-Con. It was my first panel at Comic-Con. ⁓ I got the opportunity to be I was given a Motorola cell phone, 4K cell phone. It was the first 4K cell phone. ⁓ And it was part of this whole promotion side for Motorola. To show that films could be filmed on a cell phone. So ⁓ we shot a film with it, we entered it into their contest, which was part of the whole promotion thing. And because we made a film with a cell phone that year Comic-Con was doing a panel, how to make a movie on a cell phone. And I got a call from the lady that was organizing it and was like, Do you want to be the main person on this panel? Like, yes, of course. So I built my panel out of all the people that helped me create that project. And then shortly thereafter, like I I walked away. And you know that was another example of like how it wasn't easy. I really felt like there was a lot of success and things going on, but inside no. So walked away from that. Well, I think three, four years went by and things, you know, I cleaned up, started getting back into the scene. and I went to there's a organization that goes to Comic Con every year called the Christian Comics Art Society. They have several panels that happen throughout the con. And I went, they have a sermonette on Sunday where a guy comes up and speaks and then, you know, maybe 10-15 minutes gives a nice little sermon about creativity. It's always pre-stellar. And then the rest of the panel, 45 minutes, is dedicated to people talking about the current state of comics, Christianity in comics. And after the panel, I'm walking out, and the lady that booked me on the panel previously. runs up to me and is like, and she was a Muslim at the time when she booked me on the panel. And I was so surprised to see her in that room. And she's like, Paul. I'm like, wow, hey. And she's like, I didn't know you were a believer. I'm like, I didn't know you were a believer. She's like, here, take this flyer. I'm organizing Some films that are gonna be shot in San Diego. Are you still shooting? Sure. It's like talk, call the number on it, sign up for the email, and I guarantee the director's gonna reach out to you like set up an interview, and maybe there's a possibility you could jump on the team. Okay. So that got me involved with the group of people I'm still currently involved with making films. We just shot four feature films now. ⁓ it's changed a lot, but that was the spark. And then later on, the same girl hits me up and is like, we're doing another panel on how to make a movie on a cell phone. Do you want to lead that up again? So it was like God took me out of that situation, washed me, and then like completely circled back and put me in that room where I could talk to that same girl who had also converted. And She gave me like it was like nothing had changed. Like it like time just like disappeared. And me walking away from that was like the thing that led me back to that, new and improved and ready to get back in front of people and speak about the same subject matter, but with a whole new way of looking at the world. It was really cool. And then I did that another three years in a row and you know, that was kind of the tail end of the novelty of the cell phone filmmaking thing. So and it's a lot of work putting together that panel every year. So I kinda let them know I wasn't really interested in leading it. And I think they just were like, yeah, we're gonna drop it as a topic anyway. So ⁓ no longer a thing in my life, but it was fun while it was going on. It was great. To have an opportunity to speak at a like a worlds wide

speaker-0: Yeah, and like as I mean Detroiter like we have Comic Cons in Michigan and I think the Grand Rapids one is probably the biggest one. But like ⁓ I mean San Diego is like the pinnacle of Comic Cons. Like people come from New York, they come, you know, ⁓ everywhere and you know, most comics are just based out of New York or like the characters that live there, the the studios are there. ⁓ and so randomly San Diego Comic Con is this like huge event ⁓ that everyone shows up for ⁓ and announce all the movies and everything. So you know, to to have a platform platform there is really cool. And the the Christian comics what was that? Yeah, that ⁓ you'll have to connect with them. I'm very interested in that. Because I'm a huge comic book nerd, so I've yet to go to San Diego Comic Con because I'm broke all time. But that is a goal for me. But I think that story is really interesting because ⁓ when you were kind of like walking away and and cutting ties and relationships ⁓ it sounds like that that wasn't exactly like

speaker-1: Christian Comic Art Society.

speaker-0: God encouraging you to do that. You were kinda like seeing yourself and doing some self-reflection. Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like ⁓ there's often times it's it's im it's impressive that you just made that decision. and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was in the mix somewhere within that. ⁓ but I feel like there are times when especially in the creative journeys and people who are interested in ⁓ arts and creativity and also ministry, is like they kinda feel like one has to go on the chopping block. and oftentimes it's the creative because it's like, well I have to do something for the glory of God, so I'm gonna do ministry. I've I've felt that multiple times of feeling like, okay God, like I feel like you're calling me to do some ⁓ evangelistic effort, so I'm gonna just set aside filmmaking or try to. It never really happened. ⁓ but you know, focus in on the ministry side of things. ⁓ and I think there's a a certain aspect of like or even God actually calling that that denial of self and being like, I'm gonna put you here for now and some of these other things are gonna just have to wait. Right. And I think those when our our hopes and dreams in our passions are so ⁓ you know linked to us and and God might ask us to set them aside ⁓ you know it's so hard and so challenging and that's the the difficult process of self sacrifice. ⁓ but I think what's what's pretty consistent is a s a story of like God asking you to lay it down just for him to give it back greater and better than ever. Absolutely. And like your story illustrates that in a way that's ⁓ you know not even the the the start of that journey not even being really what you could perceive at the time being God, but more like self reflection. And then God still bringing you through that process of like you have you have done the hard work of like committing yourself to improvement. ⁓ now I'm gonna send you back to where you came from, restored and and working in through my glory. ⁓ and so I think that's a a really unique aspect ⁓ that I think is encouraging. And if there's creatives out there that ⁓ you know, you feel like God might be calling you to lay dreams aside or anything like that. ⁓ you know, it's it's difficult and it's super challenging. But I think there's encouragement to know like if God's calling you to do something, he'll see you through it through the other side.

speaker-1: Sure. Well if God's calling you to do something, run to it. Like it's it's God asking you to do something, obey. ⁓ especially if he's asking you to let something go or something die in your life because that's it's the resurrection story. It always comes back glorified. You know, you gotta let it lie and he will restore it and bring it back for his glory.

speaker-0: Transitioning to leadership on set, you know, you're you're often operating within cinematography, and editing, ⁓ which is you know, being the director of photography is obviously an above the line the role. It's a a leadership role, but obviously there's still a chain of command even above that. ⁓ but you're still leading a team. And I think, you know, just again going back to what I mentioned earlier about being a part of that team for a brief time, you know, I could really sense a a dedication to servant leadership and and fulfilling the role and kinda leaning into the hierarchy of a film set 'cause that's important for the the the function of it and the effectiveness to get through it. ⁓ but there is still an aspect of being ⁓ on your team that was like you were opening opportunities for me to even like kinda shadow the director, ⁓ and you were just giving people the opportunity of like some guy was ⁓ within the the grip crew who was like, ⁓ I would love to fly a drone. It's like, ⁓ y you can fly the drone, you know, and giving that opportunity to somebody who who wanted that experience. ⁓ so I'd love for you to just talk about the kind of like the philosophy and theology of leadership ⁓ and how that applies through creative arts.

speaker-1: It it's birthed from a place of like I I the work that I've done on myself to get to where I am, putting everything behind and just self improvement. ⁓ and then Wasn't always bought Bible centered in terms of how it improves me, and now it's a hundred percent reliant on the word ⁓ to constantly self-improve. I'm always praying to God find those areas of my life where I am distant from you and fill those gaps and pull me closer to you. And you start praying that prayer, it'll do it. It's dangerous, it's a very dangerous prayer because your life will shift in very crazy ways, and I continue to lean into that, and it's more and more work. So that's kind of like the foundation for the philosophy where. It's just, I know how to make a film. I understand that. I get cinematography. And of course I'm still learning in that space, but give me a script and I can turn it into a movie. ⁓ depending on the budget, you know, like we will work within those limitations and give you the best product that we can, according to, you know, the the stuffs that we're given in order to build it with. So making the movie, I get that. And it doesn't matter what element or how complicated or simple the script is, dealing with the people is always gonna be the hardest part. Yeah. Cause you have a group of these passionate artists that Are emotional or sensitive or whatever, and that's okay. But you gotta realize like there's so many moving parts to a set, and everyone has to work together. It's a collaborative art form. And yes, there is a hierarchy, but we're all working together to create this one finished product. And you have to navigate those relationships, not just yours, between everyone on set as a leader, but also. the ones that are happening that you don't see where people are kind of at odds with each other or there's friction or so learning the art of ⁓ conflict resolution. Which is the majority of the stuff that I've learned of how to handle myself in the world when it comes to either just a simple conversation with someone in line at a coffee shop or like these complex relationships where you actually have to build into them and pour into people when it comes to like working relationships because we're always gonna be doing things together and there's friction. And there needs to be trust and understanding and you know, how do you navigate like breaking someone's heart when they've been working for something so hard or like pouring into them 'cause they have a great idea or like diffusing situations between other people and doing that effectively to the point where it builds them, not breaks them down. ⁓ so my wife and I do a ton of work together in terms of like like we we have a wonderful relationship but we still go to a counselor. You know, we have a marriage group that we go to once a month where there's six couples, all bel not all believers, mostly believers. The counselors are faith based. And we have it's a couple that runs this counseling and they come to a house and we hosted at different houses in the group, and six couples get together and like we talk about our problems with issues of shame or you know ⁓ Whatever the chores in the house, like just list it and how do you diffuse those situations? And it's those tools that we learn that we can take and just like I I use them in every aspect of life. And not just in the home or my close relationships with like my friends and things, but also out in work. It's just so important. And dealing learning to deal with people is the single most important thing that I've learned at as a leader. And It's because of those skills and because I have the opportunity to actually engage on those skills on a regular basis because I put myself in those leadership roles, that it just improves constantly. And I can sit down with someone and be like, so what's going on with this set today? Like why why is the vibe different today? And it's really easy for me to shake the tree and figure out what is going on, and then also have the tools to right away understand, like, ⁓ you're hurt. Because you have damage in this space because of what happened somewhere else. And let's it let's let's look at that and say, no, it's not because of what's happening here, it's because you have this unfinished work that you've never done personally. Let's say let's pray into this, let's talk about this, let's let's shake this out. And it really gives you the chance to like get on this real intimate people, like intimate, vulnerable space with the people that you're working with. And because you treat them And the issue with such like care, it builds. and flourishes and they like really understand that you're seeing them and seeing the problem and handling it with care and love and knowing that your intention is to fix and improve and pour into and just being able to draw those things out of them. Not only does it build the relationship one-on-one between you and them but the entire team now understands and like sees that you're approaching problems that way and then they can trust you and bring things to you as well. So It's always offering solutions, you know, instead of problems. It's always pouring into people. And I think it all starts with like just opening the door and knowing like yes, we do, we are enforcing the hierarchy, and you enforce the hierarchy, producer, director, DP, gaffer, and so on down the line. opening the door to the opportunity for people to bring you ideas. Like this is everyone's thing. And not only taking those ideas and like trying to be like, okay, we could do that. Yeah, it's good. And then but then also like if it's a no, giving them a legitimate reason why no. Not no because it's your idea, PA. You don't do that. You don't bring that to the director. It's no because we don't have the time logistically, we don't have the lights, we didn't plan for that setup. You know, sorry. Yes, that's a great idea. Keep it in your back pocket for some in the future. But dude, sometimes they fly. Sometimes they fly. And it just adds to the overall awesomeness of the finished product. Like it's so cool to bring someone something that you just thought of randomly on set and then see it on the screen later on. Like, that was my idea. It's like ⁓ and it encourages people to like constantly be thinking and it adds, adds, adds. So yeah, an open set of ideas and flourishing, praying first. as the thing we do when the day starts, ⁓ that super opens the door to just like knowing and bringing the spirit in and everyone being conscious of the fact that this is believers together creating ⁓ or taking what he created for us to use and make something with. ⁓ and just like pouring into other people. Yeah it's it's it's a privilege to be able to do that. It really is. ⁓

speaker-0: I think a lot of artists ⁓ there's kinda like this thing within I think it's mostly in music. That's like it's like, ⁓ I'm just an artist, like I'm not a role model but like you're still at a a place of influence. And I feel like any place of influence is leadership. and so I think it's for especially I mean within the Christian faith we put a lot of emphasis on leadership and the structure of that and I I think that's because Jesus specifically speaks to that in in service ⁓ servant leadership. But I think ⁓ i it might be a little bit harder for mediums that ⁓ that don't collaborate a whole lot like if you're a painter or ⁓ a graphic designer illustrator you know it might just all be you ⁓ or or yeah comic book illustrator or whatever or a writer ⁓ now there's probably some degree of ⁓ collaboration whether it's like an editor or a client or something like that but ⁓ it might be harder to to see leadership skills needing to be effective because you're just working within yourself. But even with the the the delivery and the the distribution of your work and how your work affects other people ⁓ and and connects with other people, I feel like is a is a form of leadership and and taking ⁓ accountability for like what I make will affect people and connect with people and so I have to be conscious of how much I'm going to lean into you know, aspects of myself that might be triggering to others or ⁓ traumatic. And knowing the line and praying with the Holy Spirit to be like, okay, do I lean into how much I express my testimony through this? That's you know, get into target places. and do I trust the audience to be mature enough to handle that? And in some settings they are, in some settings they aren't. And I think that's the important thing of like not every piece that we make is for everyone. ⁓ but yeah, I think regardless of whatever medium that person operates in you should be conscious of ⁓ the responsibility put on your shoulders as a creator and how that is a leader. ⁓ so I I really appreciate your your input there. ⁓ I'm curious within the films that you've worked on, you mentioned about opening with prayer. You know I assume there are probably cast members or even crew members who are not Christians on set. ⁓ Have you ever run into a a problem with that, that somebody's like, ⁓ I don't really vibe with that. I assume they probably know at the gate, or have you even just on the flip s flip side of that, like just seen testimonies about that and and awesome stories from a Christian set ⁓ bringing on people who aren't Christian.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, I have examples of both, right? Like it's kind of the beauty of doing that. I've never met a person that gets upset if you say, Can I pray for you? Like it doesn't non-believer, believer, atheist, Satanist, it doesn't matter. Like Can I pray for you? Is like some it's an intimate situation where like you're doing something nice for someone and like no one's gonna like no. Like so yeah, I I I think that's it comes being able to pray as a group when you're making a Christian film is kind of like a no-brainer, but they're not all Christian films, right? So I especially I'm trying to pursue things that are not Christian films. That's really where I want to dwell. So, yes, I do get hired to shoot Christian films that have scripture and everything, but really my aim is to be making faith-adjacent films. And it won't always be working with people of faith, and it won't always be a total Christian story. But as long as it's inspirational and positive and will show the light of God, is where I'm trying to dwell. Because I feel like I'll have more impact in those spaces. So ⁓ I have a recent example where I was not making a Christian film and I, you know, I I'm gonna pray myself and no one's gonna stop me from praying before the day. So and I like to burn incense when I'm doing that as well. So here I am sitting, we unload my car, ⁓ all the gear is inside, and I am sitting on the back of my car with the trunk open, my SUV with the trunk open, and I'm burning some ⁓ Hollywood and as the incense rises and I start to kind of get into, you know, where where I'm ready to start praying into it, someone walks out and is like, is there any more gear to grab? Like, ⁓ like, what are you doing? I'm praying. ⁓ And I like to burn incense when I pray. Do you know in the Bible like they can encourage to like to bring in the spirit with them, like there's a tabernacle and I kinda give a little brief receipt without leaning in too hard. And he just kind of stands there looking at me and like, Would you like to pray with me? He's just, sure. You know, like so I pray out loud and I pray for a couple minutes and then I know it's like, is there anything you would like to add? He's like, No, I think you covered it, you know, kind of thing. But where else do you get the opportunity to offer those kind of like situations and do it and and it doesn't happen unless you do it. ⁓ and no one's gonna get mad at me for doing it. And so it it it definitely opens the door to to have that space and to like have those conversations and know that okay, Paul is a believer, but he's working on this film. So I'm just trying to like the one of the big things I'm wrestling with is how do you navigate being a believer, but not being defined as a Christian artist, right? Like I want to be defined by faith, not by genre. And I think that's like the number one thing that you could do in order to like be most effective is like be the believer, but also excuse me, but also like put yourself in those spaces of darkness. Because and like people say like why would you do a horror film? It's such a dark place to be. That's the reason why I'm going to do the horror film, because if there's no light in the darkness, it just gets darker and it'll stay dark. We have to be the ones that bring the torch into those situations and be a believer in that space and show people that like I still love you. I'm a Christian. It's not my job to condemn you because you're not a believer. It's my job to come into those space and show you love and serve and just be the best example of a Christian that I can't can possibly be without going, I'm a Christian and this is why I'm doing it. ⁓ because that's where you're gonna have the most influence.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, we've had ⁓ a lot of talks on horror ⁓ within Creative Chapel and in that genre. ⁓ and I think there's people who are creative and artistic are able to I think do a little bit more inner work and connect into their emotions a little bit. ⁓ and and see even the darker emotions and that that opens them up to be more expressive in those spaces. I think it's on the the audience side where we see more resistance to ⁓ darker themes. Yeah. ⁓ which at the end of the day it's like I'm not offended by you having a standard or or saying like I don't participate in this. Like it's like, okay, that's cool. I'm not gonna like challenge that 'cause that's your personal conviction. But it's like I'm not I'm not like demonized or possessed or something just because I engage with darker material because I think I think that's almost a calling that like God has cultivated ⁓ people to be not necessarily like open, but I would say it's almost like an anointing of maturity to be like, I can step into this space and it not ⁓ affect me as harshly as someone else would. It still affects and I still have to go bring it to the Lord. ⁓ at the end of the day, like I am able to be aware of the pitfalls and in the areas, my boundaries where I won't go, ⁓ and I'm able to see clearly where those are even within this space. And so ⁓ I d I definitely think it's important for For Christian creatives to explore the darkness as much as the light. ⁓ and I know that's on the audience side is where we see the most resistance, I feel like, but creatively I think ⁓ a lot of people are open to it. ⁓ and so have you have you had a a negative experience with like opening with prayer? ⁓ or or just even being like a Christian set and having somebody there?

speaker-1: It's never been and and you just make it you don't just lean into it and force someone to join the circuit. We circle up beforehand and we pray before. And people that I've done that with that I was afraid to kind of open up with, by the time we were done with one of the productions came up to me and told me, like, I don't know why, like, did you have a wrong impression about me or something? Like I was like, I don't know, I didn't know if you were a believer or not, you know, I was just being careful with that situation, wasn't trying to force you to do anything. He's like, I'm totally a believer, I just don't practice, you know, like I had no idea, right? Like

speaker-0: But also like what do you even do with that with that? I don't know. It's a believer he doesn't practice. I don't yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah, but still it he believes in God. Yeah. And was raised to believe Jesus Christ is Lord. Hasn't touched that in twenty, thirty years, right? But is on our set and It took him, you know, what was it, a twenty-day production to come up to me like on one of the last days and open up and actually express that to me. Like it took a lot for him to do that. And when was the last time he told anybody that? Because he's been in this world where he's successful on set, getting a lot of work. But he's on sets where probably if he shared that with some other people, they might not give him the next job. And it's unfortunate. The unfortunate reality of being a believer on most sets.

speaker-0: If you're someone who loves apparel that shows your creative side while sharing your faith, I've just the thing for you. Our sponsor, the Printing Ox, has hooked us up with some t-shirts I designed that we're planning to launch later this summer. If you want to support the show, go ahead and pre-order one of the shirts. It has the Creative Chapel logo on the front, and on the back it says you were made to create, with the scripture of Revelation 4.11 underneath. You might even recognize the design from our backdrop here at the studio. If you'd like to pre-order a shirt, visit the link in our description. And if you have any t-shirt needs for your church, business, or event, make sure to hit up my buddy Forrest at the PrintingOx. He does everything with quality and exemplifies the Creative Chapel spirit. Visit his link in the description as well. Alright, back to the show. Yeah, I feel like that's a big part of just the motivation that Joel had with starting Faith and Film. Totally. ⁓ And, you know, your crew that you run with, a lot of like the same collaborators, I feel like how you've found yourself ⁓ in in the projects that you've all kind of created and generated from that kind of mindset of like, you know, there's not a lot of us here and so it's fun when we're able to get together and collaborate. ⁓ and so thinking back on the the dynamic of like the audience and and their reception of darker elements ⁓ in in work. ⁓ You know that I'm a fan of hardcore music. I know that you you were kinda like in that scene. Yeah. and you've shared with me some bands. I still gotta check ⁓ out. ⁓ but ⁓ and some of them I was familiar with. I'd love to hear your perspective on that engagement between ⁓ an audience reception of of a work that is you know, kinda like alternative to the the popular scene, the in scene, the the clean and polish scene and the the creation of these ⁓ alternative genres.

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean I that's the word alternative, right? ⁓ there's secular alternative music. There's also, you know, people that are believers that create alternative music. ⁓ and it's really good. And unfortunately it doesn't get the same shine that the secular world promotes through their channels. But it's out there and it's good. And it's not always like scripture. It's not always beating you over the head with the Bible. It's ⁓ stories of life. ⁓ people that are believers that are creating. And yet some of it does have scripture. Some of it is covering stories of the Bible, but they're doing it screaming off of us. You know? That's good. Yeah. It's have you been in front of No I have not, no interest. But yeah.

speaker-0: I would from that I'm like where's your band? I need to see it. Yeah.

speaker-1: Just I've always loved that music and then circling into the Christian community and man, like I love a good worship song. I'm on the worship team at my church. You know, I do lights, I don't sing, but I'm part of that team. ⁓ not my favorite type of music by any means, you know, but I It's more what I see and how people emotionally react to it when I'm swinging those moving lights around and the haze is pumping and the singers are doing their thing and like people are crying, hands are up. Like it's beautiful to be part of promoting that environment. ⁓ and people just encountering the Lord through art that way is cool, but I don't listen to it outside of that, you know, like sometimes I'll pop out my wife loves it and like it's cool. I'm not gonna shut it off because I don't like it. But yeah, man, like discovering that there are Christian hardcore bands, that's that's my worship. Like that's like, yes, I will put on the scream. My wife calls it Screamo music, because yes, they're screaming, but they're screaming Yahweh, they're screaming Jesus, they're screaming, and they're telling really raw stories that are honest. And I feel like the whole Christian pop scene just kind of isn't as honest as it should be because they're trying to fit themselves into a box that's marketable. Yeah. And anytime you introduce that element to things, and I'm not saying they don't do a lot of good in the world, they do, you know, with the the the Christian music scene is you know, with Nashville pumping everything out of there, it's it's a really good space and they're giving music for believers so they have something to listen to, the K-pop, right? Whatever. Or not the K-pop. What is the K-Love? K Love. The K Love ⁓ which is great, but for me, I don't I the you know, so so finding things in that space like that I can relate to and really enjoy and I worship that way. And what's wrong with that? But of course there is a lot of the church that shies away from it. And that goes back to the reaction of the audience. And in no way am I trying to force that upon people. You don't have to listen to it. Just like you know if you don't like country, you don't have to listen to country. If you don't like rap, you don't have to listen to rap. If you don't like alternative Christian music, don't listen to it. It doesn't mean you have to try and shut it down for the people that do enjoy it and do find the space. And Yes, from the stage at church there are times where they step away and give a little bit of like testimony or whatever, but I've never seen it done like I've seen it done at a hardcore concert. Where these these people that are like, ⁓ I saw a symphony in peril not too long ago at the JCHC Fest up in Ventura that was put on by Officer Negative. And it was a fantastic festival, super intimate, reminded me of the punk rock days of me growing up, where it was just like, you know, 150 people there that were just loving the music, loving each other, and just having a good time. But it was a Christian space and it was wonderful. And the lead singer of Symphony and Peril stops, you know, in between and tells a story about him and his wife, and she got cancer, and he started doing communion every day. And praying to God for her healing, and she was healed. And the doctors couldn't explain how that cancer went away in her body. It's like to hear that from stage and then him have a song afterwards that backs that up, that he wrote about it. And it's like, dude, this is so real and so raw. And because it was an intimate situation, like There's like I don't have to fight my way to the front of that stage. And I was able to hang out for two minutes afterwards and like tell him, thank you for sharing that. Eye to eye, like heart to heart, bro. Thank you so much. That was inspirational. Hear someone share a true story from stage about that. And he hops on stage and just sits there, and it's my wife, me and him, and this guy that was the lead singer of Zow having a conversation about God. And prayer and communion for 15 minutes. Like, and like other people are walking up and joining the conversation. And he shares this whole story with us. And it's like, it's that's that's community. That's like why? And so afterwards, I we stay, we were staying in Ventura for the weekend. It was my birthday celebration. I wanted to go to this. My wife does not like hardcore music, so that was like how I got her to go. Birthday. Birthday trip, babe. ⁓ thanks, babe. And So we were there, and like she felt the vibe, and she it kind of changed her perspective on it. She looked around in the crowd, she's like, these are people, like they're piercings and tattoos, and she's like, I would never think that these are believers. And now it's just kind of like, wait, now I can't look at a person that's walking down the street like that the same way anymore. So the event was at a church. We go and attend the church service the next day, and the guy that organized it, Chad Wiggins, the lead singer of ⁓ Officer negative is there. And apparently he's like a youth pastor there. ⁓ wow. And like afterward we had the chance to walk up to him and talk to him, tell him how grateful I was about the whole thing. And just like all that encompassed together was just like seeing my wife's reaction, her being able to share her testimony. He shares with me there's the gray hairs that were, you know, very apprehensive to let them do that at their church and gave him the green light and he did it. And they saw people praying for each other. They saw people in ministry being done. And they told him that they saw more ministry being done at that event. Than they've seen at church services in six months combined. Like, so it impacted them. Like these people, and now they're like, where do I find these bands? Where do I listen to? How do I get involved? You know, so it's exposing people to it and bringing that to light and showing them the power of what any art medium that you're gonna do that's outside of what is approved by the deacons, you know, and being put out into the world. Not that there's anything wrong with that stuff. ⁓ but not everyone enjoys that sort of stuff. And God used a group of misfits as his disciples and he poured into these people. And they weren't the most acceptable people in society. He and he continues to pour into and he's building this army of people like me that come from a background of just rugged and raw, like individualism and pushing away God and rejecting things and drugs, alcohol, sex, addiction. you know, jail, like crime, and he's saving them and pulling them into his army. And I'm seeing more and more people like me that need alternative art in this space because that's what's gonna continue to like energize us and encourage us to make art ourselves and know that it's safe for us to express ourselves in the manner that we feel most comfortable. so it's just like inspirational to find the communities that and these pockets of Christianity and just explore like all the different avenues of faith, not just the pop culture stuff, but also like all these different worlds that exist and the people that are in it and how faithful they are. It's inspiring.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think the the biggest thing that like rings out of that for me is ⁓ truth. It's like is you know, just hearing you use that word and being like this guy's shared a story that was so personable and so true. and I think that's what it is kind of like missing from a lot of just Christian art in general is truth. and it we present this Thomas Kincaid sanitized world. But even with Thomas Kincaid, we take a look at that guy, it's like he has some real demons, ⁓ and and struggled with a lot of things at the end of his life. And then like, you know, there are artworks that he's done that were like unreleased. ⁓ there's a documentary about it. I I'll have to share it with you. ⁓ but, you know, we we want to present this, you know, painting of light, Thomas Kincaid cottage in the idyllic, you know, forest. and that's like the pinnacle of Christian life. But It's like the pinnacle or maybe not the pinnacle, but like the reality is is a blood stained cross. ⁓ and that and darkness happening on that day, ⁓ and then obviously, you know, the the resurrection and the tomb. But Jesus is still coming out of a tomb, out of a place of death. ⁓ and he had to go into into Hades, you know, in between the the death and resurrection. He's going into the darkness to pull people out. ⁓ and I think You a a scripture that comes to mind, ⁓ I'm gonna look it up real quick so I don't want to get it wrong. Sure. So I had to look this up. ⁓ this is a scripture that I feel like gets often presented to Christians who are creating, just in general, but especially those who are kind of in alternative scenes. ⁓ it's Philippians four, eight. It says, From now on, brothers and sisters, if anything is excellent, if anything is admirable, focus your thoughts on these things. All that is true, all that is holy, all that is just, all that is pure. All that is lovely and all that is worthy of praise. Practice these things. Whatever you learned, received, heard, or saw in us, the God of peace will be with you. And so I feel like people really use that verse to be like, well, you know, how could how could screaming at the top of your lungs be beautiful? I find that, you know, they have all these arguments against that. Or horror. How could horror be beautiful? And there's things in horror that are definitely not beautiful. Like I have my boundaries with horror. ⁓ but there's also I find a lot of ⁓ truth in horror and so they zero in on beauty and they they define beauty in a specific way. ⁓ but when I I do not find beauty in the sanitized, polished, flannel graph Christian pop music that exists out there. I find that kind of repulsive, honestly. ⁓ and I'm not trying to like trash on anybody's craft or art. Like it connects with an audience, so it exists for a person and so, you know, be fruitful and and continue with your art there. ⁓ but when I perceive things that are beautiful, when I perceive things that are lovely, ⁓ and pure ⁓ and holy, that you know, I think has a different look. Like when we look at the throne room of heaven and Isaiah is there, Isaiah screams at the top of his lungs because because he is terrified, petrified by what he sees there. And that ⁓ I mean like the the descriptions of Jesus and the description of the throne room and the things that are there, if we saw them, we would be terrified. and and we would probably not consider those things beautiful. Like when we examine the seraphim, it's like it's like that's kind of a creepy looking thing, you know? ⁓ and so with that it's like people want to weaponize this verse against certain ⁓ things, but I feel like they always leave out true. Focus on what are what is true. And I feel like the sanitization of life ⁓ through Christian art is like it's like it might be pretty, but pretty isn't exactly beautiful. And also, it's not true. Like the the Thomas Kincaid kind of painting, I you know, I admit is beautiful, is is pretty. I admire his craft there. ⁓ even though I think the the secular world kind of thinks it's ⁓ ke what is the term? I guess they view it kinda like tacky. ⁓ but I think there's a a craft and excellence there. But it's also not true. It's a complete fiction. ⁓ and that's not to discredit it, is just to say that when you try to zero in on this verse specifically and weaponize it against creatives and what they're crafting, it it minimizes the ministry that can happen to an audience that these the flannel graph isn't reaching. ⁓ and ⁓ that's because things being presented aren't true. ⁓ and I think that affects Christian music. I think that affects especially Christian films. and ⁓ there's two projects I want to bring up here in that you I saw this on IMDb that you were the cinematographer on a film called ⁓ is it Beer and God or God and Beer. God and Beer. Which like at that title I'm like That's interesting. Like I there's a strong denomination that would probably reject that movie completely. I get to see it, I'm very interested to watch it. ⁓ but ⁓ I'm you know, from that experience and like making that film, ⁓ what were I mean, there's there's a gentleman battling addiction, and alcoholism, right, in the story? No, no. ⁓ okay. I thought I I must have read the synopsis wrong, but

speaker-1: A life of purpose is one with addiction, which is a film previously to that that was a cinematographer on a God in Beer is a guy from Ireland ⁓ comes to America to find his estranged daughter, and he does it through his ability to ⁓ craft beer. So he gets a job at a brewery and it eventually connects him to his daughter. ⁓ and that's just like the story. And I mean it's all it's a God story. Like There's no i there is well there is a guy that ha is having struggling with alcohol and it's the wife's husband that he meets before he finds her. And he guy yeah, okay, so yes, yeah, you're right. And ⁓ eventually that like his belief in God helps the guy kind of sober up and fix the family and then the family all comes together. So it is a story of redemption, a hundred percent. ⁓ so and it has to do with beer, but you know, like they're not That's the difference when I get into a project where I know and like how how are you gonna show redemption without showing sin? You cannot show redemption without first sho showing sin. As long as you're not glorifying sin. I think that's the distinction between like you know, a horror film that is truly demonic and something that is trying to show the light. Yeah. You could not mention Jesus at all or the gospel or anything. As long as you're not glorifying sin, you could show the sin, but show the redemption. And I think that's where the line is kind of drawn between those.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think that's huge. ⁓ I think that's really ⁓ a huge takeaway for creatives to to walk away with. Absolutely. ⁓ and so the other project that I wanted to bring up is one that we collaborated on just recently. ⁓ you're working on a documentary. Yeah. ⁓ and so I won't give away any of the details, I'll let you talk about

speaker-1: Dulos a Heart is the name of the short documentary. ⁓ started years ago with a guy that ⁓ is part of the Christian Comic Art Society, does cosplay repair at Comic Con San Diego. ⁓ he and that's how he shows his love for Christ, is by serving. And anyone that's been to any Comic Con in general, especially San Diego, knows that it does not have a huge Christian presence. The Christian presence at Comic Con is just outside of the doors where people are being screamed at with bullhorns and condemned for their participation in idolizing comic book characters. So before you walk through the doors of Comic Con, you're getting a pretty bad taste in your mouth from the Christian side of things. So he doesn't go around preaching. He has offered a service. Anyone that has a cosplay costume that has some sort of need of repair, he's got a bag full of sewing materials, glues, everything you need. To fix that for you. His number's out there in the information booth. He's very publicly known, he's been doing it for years. And that's how he introduces his service to people as a believer in Christ. So he repairs cosplay things, and when he'll do that, that's when he actually introduces it. And he doesn't say, like, are you a believer in Jesus? He's just like, Yeah, I'm with the Christian Comics Arts Society, and we have a booth at you know, whatever aisle, and you can come by, check out the stuff that we do. And that's where he ke leaves it, you know, and like while he's washing their feet, you know, like while he's repairing the wing that and these people It takes some months to build these costumes and a lot of people fly across the country with these things and they get there and it's Saturday and the con is firing and their wing breaks. And he's the only guy that has a tuba superglue that he's willing to that he brought specifically to repair that wing. And he gets that chance to just we're part of Christian Comics Art Society. That's why I'm here. But here's your wing and it's repaired. So I followed him around with a camera and I got a lot of that. ⁓ couple interviews with him and the people that he repaired him for. And I wanted to juxtapose that to the screaming people with the bullhorns outside that are like, this is Jesus versus this is Jesus. ⁓ and then just kind of like leave it at that. But after like following you and hearing your podcast and those sorts of things, I heard like your voice, your perspective. in mixed up in those two worlds and how a perspective like yours could like really solidify like like the what what is the in-between where is the conversation here as opposed to just leaving it and letting people see ⁓ this is how Jesus would do it and this is how people that take it upon themselves would do it. Having your voice that's just gonna kind of string those two worlds together Because I got footage of the screaming people and I have footage of the guy inside. ⁓ and now I have you, you know, talking and just making sense of it. And I think just weaving that together and packaging it into like a like five or six minute piece will be impactful and just like lend a voice to a a space that I don't think there's a lot of voice being poured into. ⁓ so I think it like it'll it'll ⁓ my hope in that is that it'll start sparking conversation rather than giving people. A definition of this is how we need to walk as Christians. Like at least it'll give them, ⁓ there are ways for us to talk about this and a safe space for us to see it. And like we know that's not how we do it. And we know that's what Jesus is calling us to do, but where's the conversation in between so we can start this dialogue as believers of how do we navigate that space and do it correctly and continue to walk in that area? ⁓ and the That's the space where I love to dwell, and I know you've done a ton of research on it too, in terms of like how as a creative do you navigate being a Christian artist but not defined as a Christian artist? And when I had up at the concert, I was talking to Chad Wiggins, and I brought it up to him. Has there been a documentary about the Christian hardcore scene? He's like, no, but I've always loved, wanted to do one. And I'm like, okay, well, let's start the conversation. And now him and I are actually in talks of him being the main subject matter of, and he's like they they came up with the phrase JCHC, like Jesus Christ hardcore. It's one of their songs from the early 90s, and it's like a mantra of like believers that. have leaned into the cornerstone music. The if you've heard of the Cornerstone Festival that happened for 30 years that started in the 70s, 35 years or something, late 70s, early 80s. And was just like the place where you went for alternative Christian music and spawned things like tooth and nail and all the big mega major record labels that promote the Christian alternative scene and the history that exists there and where it is now and where scene can be and he was embedded right in the middle of all that stuff and like his band got huge in all of that and there it's just a great opportunity to sit down with him hear the history of it from a perspective of someone that was in it but also like pull on his resources to get people in the rooms and get more interviews with not only bands that have been doing it for 30, 40 years, but also people that are new to the scene. And his connections are just going to like really tie it all together. Wanted to share my director's vision for it. Can I read it? Yeah. Okay, cool, because it totally ties into all this. ⁓ The piece is called Without Permission. Without permission is not an argument for or against Christian art, but an exploration of what happens when faith and creativity collide. At its heart is the question, did the alternative Christian art movement emerge because the church had become too worldly or because it had become too afraid of the world? Through the stories of artists who challenge the boundaries of Christian culture, I want to explore whether faithfulness requires conformity or whether sometimes the most faithful thing an artist can do is simply tell the truth, make something beautiful, and trust the audience to encounter the questions for themselves. Yeah, I feel like that encompasses everything you were just saying. And so yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that's ⁓ both so those are two individual projects, right? Yeah. I both those are super interesting to me. ⁓ I'm I'm very honored to be a part of ⁓ the Comic Con one. Yeah. ⁓ Dulos Heart. Yeah. Yeah. Very honored and I appreciate you bringing me onto that. I'm excited to see it. Yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. Thanks for doing the work. That encouraged me wanting to reach out and I I couldn't think of anyone else to put in that chair. I wasn't gonna put myself in that chair.

speaker-0: I think I thank you for that. ⁓ yeah, I think both those are are are great and when when they're both finished we'll have to b have you back on and talk about ⁓ in the reception of them. ⁓ I think just to plug, ⁓ you know, some people who have been on the show, you follow Hard Faith. I don't know if you've ever been there.

speaker-1: I have not been to the festival. I tried to go this year. I had a ticket for Thursday, and that was the only day I was available, and I ended up getting busy that day too.

speaker-0: Yeah. Well that is a a perfect spot for both of these. ⁓ and it's just a cool community and and I've had so many connections from that festival on the show so far. ⁓ the episode that released today, this morning, ⁓ was a was a friend of mine that I made there. So That's great. ⁓ yeah, definitely a a great spot for it. But I'd love to hear like more about like how it connects with people, you know. I'm hoping that ⁓ Doolos Heart, right? Yeah. I'm hoping Doolis Heart has a a place at Comic Con that you're able to show it there.

speaker-1: really cool. I didn't even envision it playing a comic commer. That would be awesome.

speaker-0: Yeah, that'd be really cool. ⁓ you know. Hopefully hopefully some of your connects and plugs there could maybe make that happen. That'd be so cool. And then like you record that, add it into the documentary later. ⁓ it j it just keeps going. ⁓ well Paul, thank you so much. I got two questions I I like to end with. ⁓ the first one is what is currently inspiring you as a creative? What what's inspiring your work, whether it's scripture, other creative works, anything?

speaker-1: Explore that. Yeah. I had a mentor lay into me, I forgot the scripture, it's from Corinthians where ⁓ God encourages us to find ⁓ what is it, shepherd, the preacher, the teacher, ⁓ you know, the handful of things. And from that it's you know, building relationships with people that can be those people in your lives, but also realizing like what was being called within that scripture was for not the model of the Western Christian church that we follow where there's one person speaking from stage, but it's the people they're speaking to that are supposed to be the ones that are going out into the world and doing the work. ⁓ so being encouraged in that and being someone that is out in the world doing the work. scripture is another opportunity for him to just carve that path for me to walk down. ⁓ So just you know encouraging other people to do the same. ⁓ Where do I derive current inspiration from? Of course it's the word. It's always just digging in, finding that I have a Thursday Bible study that I lead and it's like we're in Romans and just hearing the encouragement of the like being in Romans and we're doing not verse by verse but word by word. So it's just like this intense dive into every little and it's so intelligent. It's a very intelligent book. And every little piece of it is an opportunity to kind of expand on things and finding, you know, where we started off with my testimony in this segment, ⁓ kind of touched on that last week where it's like, why why do we glorify people that come from sinful lives over people that The whole time? Why is it that we put people like me on a pedestal that have these radical transformation stories when the true beauty is someone that has woken up since they were young and had a family that put them in the church and they've been walking with Jesus and struggling with that their entire lives? Why don't we tell more stories about that? Why aren't we leaning more into that sort of thing? And why is like glorifying the lifestyle change more important than highlighting the people that have been really walking for decades and you know, decades and decades kind of thing and like drawing that sort of stuff out of things like Romans and just like being humbled in that space, you know, is really just where I find the inspiration. Knowing God, man, just and accepting him for who he is and molding myself to the things that he has put into this world.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's awesome. ⁓ yeah, it's it's funny I am on the other side of that coin of like I was just like a youth group kid, pastor's kid, and not a pastor's kid that wild out. I feel like my dad and my mom did a really great job in raising me and my sister and ⁓ and I'm like, yeah, I don't I feel like it's none. You know, it's just day in, day out. You know, I was probably saved like every other weekend, ⁓ you know, growing up. So ⁓ yeah, it is interesting to think about for sure. And so this is a new question I'm kind of experimenting with. I expect experimented with my buddy Spencer who ⁓ released this morning his episode. ⁓ but ⁓ we'll see how it goes. But who is who is somebody that you would love to see on Creative Chapel? We've name dropped someone already, but maybe there's another person.

speaker-1: I can't believe you haven't had Joel on your show yet. Joel McGuinty for sure. and as I dive deeper into my relationship ⁓ and getting this other documentary off the ground, I would love to send you Christian Hardcore people. Yeah. As I get to know them personally. Like Chad Wiggins would be an awesome person to have on. Creative Chapel.

speaker-0: Yeah, I feel b I feel bad. ⁓ yeah. Definitely. Yeah. I need to follow like discover more of his music so ⁓ I don't know if that's one of the bands that you sent me, but

speaker-1: Yeah, officer negative. Yeah. ⁓ sure. Definitely. Amen.

speaker-0: Well Paul, thank you for those suggestions. I'll definitely ⁓ definitely get you all on the show. And then ⁓ yeah, if you if you have any connects for me, I'll definitely get them on. ⁓ and so yeah, that ⁓ kind of wraps up this episode. ⁓ thank you so much for being on the show. And ⁓ we'll ⁓ see you guys next time.

speaker-1: Yeah, but

speaker-0: Thanks for watching this episode of the Creative Chapel Podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow along to stay up to date on more episodes. We're shooting out of Communion Church in San Diego, California. If you're looking for a great church to be a part of, this is the place to be. Stay faithful, stay creative, and I'll see you in the next episode.