He Edited Justin Bieber's Videos — Then God Interrupted His Career

speaker-0: watching a movie that I started making and that was a really magical feeling.

speaker-1: He's edited music videos for some of the top artists in the world like Justin Bieber.

speaker-0: If I don't do this, like my career's over and I'm cooked and no one's ever gonna give me another chance. I I was doing some Justin Bieber dance videos, editing those at the beginning of 2020. It's like look up and I'm like, okay, what are you doing, God? And I just started crying and I just felt like the Holy Spirit just in that car with me and I was just really repenting of like my greed and selfishness and just living for myself.

speaker-1: Mm. Welcome to Creative Chapel, a podcast exploring the vast landscape of Christian artistry. Across denominations and disciplinary mediums, Creative Chapel is building a space where saints can gather and celebrate their walk with Christ with their God-given gifting, encouraging each other in their faith and their craft. Creative Chapel is the place for inspiration, curation, and revelation. Welcome to Creative Chapel. I'm your host, Chris Mack, and today I'm joined by Jordan Orm, a YouTuber, video editor, ⁓ podcaster, and all-around filmmaker. He has edited music videos for some of the top artists in the world like Justin Bieber, as well as been a co-host for the top editing podcast. ⁓ Jordan, welcome to the show.

speaker-0: Thanks. I appreciate it, bro. Thanks for having me. Yeah.

speaker-1: This has been in works for for a while. You were like right when I started organizing the show, you were like one of the first people that I reached out to. ⁓ so it's really cool to like find all have you here. ⁓ And so we got connected through Ruse Lon KD's Blessed God Summit. Yeah. ⁓ which was like you know, I just walk around the festival at the time I was I was a hired gun with Ruse Lon, so I was shooting his music reels and and that event I was shooting just like event highlight videos. Yep.

speaker-0: It's an honor.

speaker-1: So walking around seeing who's who and you see some like faces you know and new people and everything. And so I passed by you and I'm like, I know that dude for sure. Okay. I know that dude for sure. and so I was like, ⁓ that's Jordan from the editing podcast. Like I've totally like watched your videos, seen the like Embado Elements commercials. Like if there is ⁓ you know a video editor out there, they for sure have come across your work. ⁓ and so I was like super surprised to see you at Bless God. ⁓ 'cause at the time, you know, like familiar with your work but wasn't really like subscribed to every single video and something. Yeah. ⁓ and so it was cool just to connect there and experience you and it's funny, like in the in some of your YouTube videos you've mentioned how you're an introvert and ⁓ and watching watching the channel, I'm like, there's no way this dude's an introvert. But then experiencing you at Bless God.

speaker-0: Guy for sure. Yep. Yep, he's introverted. Yes. ⁓ I was there with ⁓ a friend of mine named Jeremy. Okay. And he's just we were just friends from church. And he was like, hey dude, I'm going to this Ruslan thing. It's like, you know, obviously I knew I knew who Ruslan was. He's a you know, obviously great creator in the Christian space, and I watched some of his videos, and he I was like, all right, like

speaker-1: And so you were there with your brother, right?

speaker-0: Yeah, let's go. And so he said, Hey, do you want to go? And and so we we made the the drive down. I think it was like an hour and a half every day or something like that. And we just drove back and we didn't, no. So we we were kind of cheap like that. We were just trying to save money. So yeah, but it was fun. It was a really cool experience. Yeah, it was amazing.

speaker-1: ⁓ every day. Yeah. You didn't stay in town. ⁓ have you like he's had another one. Did you go to that one? I w

speaker-0: Did not go to the other one. Yeah. Nope. I wasn't there either.

speaker-1: Do you have like any takeaways from that Bless God summit that you were kinda like surprised by and have kept with you at all?

speaker-0: Yeah, I think I think the thing that that really stood out to me was was just trying to figure out how to better have Christian community in the creative space, which is why I'm I'm so happy to like be on this show and I love what you're doing with Creative Chapel overall. ⁓ and so, you know, just getting to talk to people like you or other people around around the conference, it was just like, ⁓ my goodness. I find myself very much because as an editor, as a YouTube creator, I can just stay in my room all day and just I can do everything I need to do. There's no reason for me to go out and you know hang out with bunch of people ⁓ in filmmaking oftentimes is required if you're on set all the time you know it's it takes a a lot of people usually to make a project come to life and so but for me I don't really need to do that as an editor or as a YouTube creator just by myself. So to me I was like ⁓ my goodness I need to get around people more and I like you said I'm introverted so I'm like I have to get out there. And so that that was like the big takeaway like if I'm thinking about it now. How long ago was it? Was it like a ounce a year or something?

speaker-1: Two years now. Two years. He had one last year. Yeah. So it wasn't this this past spring, but the spring before. So I guess

speaker-0: Like a year and a half about, yeah. So yeah, that's kinda what sticks out to me. ⁓ and then just I think a renewed boldness and wanting to share my faith and use content to to share my to share my faith and evangelize and see myself as a missionary too. So nice. Yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah, and there's ⁓ I feel like you're kind of on a new journey ⁓ with with all of that and coming into more expressive with your faith in online. And so I want to get to that in a little bit. But before we get there, I'd love just to know like a little bit more about your backstory. Yeah. Where'd you come from, ⁓ how'd you li land some of the you know, top artists for music videos? Yeah. ⁓ yeah, so what's what's the story behind Jordan? So

speaker-0: Well I grew up in Hawaii and I was born there. And then I when I was 10, I moved to Wisconsin and spent like my middle school, high school years there. And then ⁓ I really like growing up, I really liked sports and I loved art and music. And I also kind of liked computers as well. I was like, I I feel like I took like a graphic design class in college, or not in college, in high school. I did a bunch of ⁓ art classes and I really loved those. I was like, ⁓ my gosh, like this is great. I love this stuff. And so I was thinking, I was like, maybe I'll try. filmmaking. I didn't do any filmmaking in high school at all. Never picked up a camera like that. ⁓ But I was doing kicking at the time actually. I was a kicker for ⁓ for football. So I was really looking for colleges based on that. And there's a school out in Southern California called Azusa Pacific University that was a Christian school. And I was a believer at the time. And I was like, that's that's pretty important to me just because you make a lot of lifelong friends in college. And I wanted them to be good influences and people that I could see myself hanging out with for a really long time. So that checked the box for me. It was a Christian school. They also had a Division II football program at the time. And I was like, okay, that's football at a pretty high level. And they're Pretty solid. And then they also had a film program. And so there was no other school in the entire country other that had those three things, other than this school. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna move from Wisconsin to Southern California and just see how it goes. And so I did that. And then join like I declared myself like a film major and I didn't know if I was gonna stick with that. I just tried it out. And the first time like I was in a film class, we had to make a short film. And I remember like getting the the actors together are like doing casting and trying to get the permits and producing and then filming the thing and directing. And I was like stressed. I was like, this is hard, bro. Like I don't know if I'm cut out for this. And I think they kinda try to make it hard in the beginning because they want to they really want to get the people that are like really in it and love it. ⁓ like they say that the program at Azusa Pacific is pretty rigorous and and it's pretty much a copy of what USC's program is. ⁓ so That's what that's what we did. And I was like, man, I don't know if this is for me. This is hard. and but I shot it, got it all done, and I remember going to the editing lab and like I had like a brand new hard drive and a brand new pair of headphones. I was like, okay, let's try this out. And I had two screens up and I had like tutorials on one screen and editing software on the other screen. I had no idea what I was doing. And I was just trying to like, you know, clumsily piece things together. And I remember like put putting things together and putting music in it and I was like, wait, this is wait, this is actually a movie. I'm watching a movie that I started making. And that was a really magical feeling. And I went into the editing lab that day at 5 PM and then I looked up at the clock and it was 5 a.m after a while. And I was like, whoa, that's crazy.

speaker-1: Thanks for being an early listener of the Creative Chapel Podcast. As a new show, it means so much that you're here. Please like, subscribe, and download our episodes to keep the momentum going. And share it with a friend who could use encouragement in their creative journey. Alright, back to the show.

speaker-0: And at that point I was like, okay, I really like this editing thing. I really like post production a lot. ⁓ like the sound design, the the editing. And so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna kinda brand myself as that in film school. And so I pretty much did that and tried to edit as much as I possibly could. And set still stresses me out. It's like definitely outside my comfort zone. ⁓ like I said, introvert, I just wanna stay in my room all day. So yeah, that was kind of the the birthplace of Jordan editing was was in that editing lab. And then right after college, I decided to try freelancing. So I didn't really know if I was like I initially I imagined myself just like working for a company, getting a desk job, editing videos, and being like, Yeah, this was fun, this is great. ⁓ but I had a mentor who said, Hey, you should try freelancing, because I think like I think you would be pretty good at it. And he didn't recommend that to everybody. But He he saw that in me and I can really thank him for that, for encouraging me to do that. And ⁓ so I met with like a ton of people. Like my senior year, I was just meeting with anybody I possibly could to get coffee and just get lunch and connection, like just meet people and get connections. And so there were some people that were alumni from the film school. That was really helpful. and I ended up working for one guy who was an alumni a decent amount. He was doing a lot of commercials, and he did commercials with Nike and Google, and he had a lot of really good clients and just needed a lot of post-production help. So I helped help him with that. And then I remember I remember like looking up a ton of jobs during my senior year as well, and I think it was MediaMatch.com. I looked up at the j at ⁓ a music video editing job, and I'd only edited maybe one or two music videos at that point. ⁓ the first music video I ever edited, I just did for free for a buddy of mine who was on the football team. And ⁓ yeah, he was a rapper. I was like, dude, let's make a video. Because I didn't know how to make one, and so I was like, let's just try. And that was my first experience and I kind of self-taught myself how to make, kind of taught myself how to make music videos doing that. And ⁓ but anyway, this job posting, I read the whole thing, and then at the bottom I see it says Arad Ragoche. And I was like, wait a second, I think I know this guy, because at the time I was like following anybody that I possibly could on Instagram that was a filmmaker and just trying to soak it all in and get in the community on social media a little bit. I had no following at the time, like I was just a random college kid. ⁓ but anyway, instead of doing the job posting, I actually just DM'd him on Instagram because I'd been following him, and I said, Hey, I saw this job posting. Would you like I really love your work? And I gave a bunch of specific reasons. I don't really remember what they were at this point. ⁓ but but then I sent him a reel that I had made and I said, Hey, I would love to to work with you. And he replied and he was like, Cool. And then that's it. ⁓ but I was like, he replied, that's cool. Like he was pretty like a pretty big director at the time. He was working with like Chris Brown and ⁓ who else was he working with? ⁓ like Chris Brown, ⁓ post Malone, like just a lot of larger artists. And ⁓ so yeah, and then about a month later. He reached back out to me and he was like, Hey, we're still looking for like a young talented editor. Would you like to come to the office and talk? So I was like, ⁓ my gosh, this is crazy. Jumped in my car, drove down to LA. I was really nervous and we just shot, we just sat down and he asked me a few questions. And then he was like, Hey, do you want to assist an edit? And I said, Okay, yeah, I'll do that, I'll do whatever. ⁓ I was just trying to get whatever I could to not move back to Wisconsin. That was kinda my goal. It was like I just need to survive here in LA for a little bit, right after college. And so yeah, did that. I assistant edited I think only one video and then one music video. And then he said, Hey, I have another one. Would you like to edit it and just try it out? And I said, Yes please. And did that and he liked it. That video actually got shelved, so it never came out. ⁓ but I really I remember staying up to like three, four AM, just like really focusing on it and trying to do my best. and in that one he he liked it enough not to fire me and kept giving him more music videos.

speaker-1: It's good at least. It's always cool when it's like you're working on a project and it's like, hey, I just stayed up. I did an all-nighter for this video. You're like, I'm actually not gonna release it. It's like cool cool cool.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I mean he was yeah, he was definitely upset about it too, I think. ⁓ so yeah, it was and I don't I don't think he even knew that I stayed up. I just I just really wanted to do my best and put my best foot forward. I knew like this was my chance. Like if I if I do this terribly, he's not gonna ask me to do it again. So I'm gonna make sure I do everything I can to put my best foot forward. ⁓ but yeah, I probably didn't have the best mindset. at the at that time we can get into this more but I didn't have the best mindset. I was it was definitely a fear-based mindset. I was like, if I don't do this, like my career's over and I'm cooked. and no one's ever gonna give me another chance. Like I was just a young college kid hungry to make it in the industry. And that was like looking back now I'm like that was not healthy. That was not good that I had that mindset. So ⁓ I wasn't relying on the Lord. I was relying on my own strength to make it happen. And I think the Lord just let me do that. And ⁓ like we all have free will, we all have the ability to make our own choices. But I wanna just share that because I wouldn't recommend like I would recommend working hard, but I wouldn't recommend that mindset that I had that was very much like, Hey, if if I don't make this, I'm in big trouble. Or I is is a very fear-based mindset. So don't be like me in that. Yeah. ⁓ but that was pretty much the start. And then me the music video community is very small, so once like I completed a few videos with him, posted it on Instagram, tagged everybody that worked on it, all of a sudden you're kinda in and you're like, Okay, a ton of people know who you are because he knew who Arad was. They knew who Arad was. And ⁓ so yeah, then I got some referrals word of mouth from there and that I was kinda good, so There was some truth to my mindset where it's like, Hey, you gotta really work hard at this and do a good job but internally I was not wrestling with it in a healthy way, I don't think. Yeah.

speaker-1: And so within that process, ⁓ when did when did YouTube come into that course when you started kinda like diving into that space?

speaker-0: Yeah, so YouTube was kinda funny 'cause I never ever set out to do YouTube ever. ⁓ well in high school actually so this is the only filmmaking I ever did in high school, but then it was just my senior year of high school. But I was super into being like into drums and into being a drummer. And ⁓ that's I find that helps that's the music thing that I yeah, it really does.

speaker-1: ⁓ You know, you're 'cause I I have a drum background as well. It's like being able to keep rhythm, understand it, and you're able to to understand pacing with that. So

speaker-0: Bro. Yeah. Absolutely. Pretty much all the editors that I know that are professional either are like that are some of the best in the world are either musicians or dancers. Just because they're those are like two very visually rhythmic things or just actually rhythmic, you know? ⁓ so I find that a really common correlation. But anyway, in high school I was like, I'm gonna be a professional drummer. That was like I had kicking as a thing I was doing and drumming. Those were like my two big things that I was like This is gonna be my career. And so I did make drum covers on YouTube. And they were, they were terrible. Like they were not good at all. But that was like my first experience with YouTube. And I realized in that moment, like what I learned was how hard YouTube was. And so I was a lot more hesitant to start doing YouTube again while I was editing, because this was like five years prior, and I was like, okay, I'm not doing YouTube again. This is way too hard. But what happened was I was doing those Justin Bieber, I was doing some Justin Bieber dance videos, editing those at the beginning of 2020. That was in January, I think. Then I had a buddy of mine call me up, and he was a social media manager for a big social media company, and he was running their YouTube channel. So he was kind of like a YouTube guru. And he was like, bro, you should definitely start a YouTube channel and talk about like your editing and what you're doing, editing for Justin Bieber and stuff like that. And I was like, That that's cool, that's nice, but I'm way too busy and it's way too hard to do YouTube. Like I've done that before, it's really hard. ⁓ like even what we're what you're doing right now with Creative Chapel, and we were just talking about this off offline, but it is so hard to do this. Like people don't understand how much work it takes. ⁓ so I said nah. I was like, ⁓ thanks, but no thanks. I appreciate the encouragement, but I'm not gonna do that. And then March comes around and then p the pandemic happens. And so kind of immediately all the productions pretty much stopped and there wasn't really a whole lot of work ⁓ for about a month or two. And so I was just kind of sitting there and I was like, well, I guess I could do the YouTube thing now. I have time. Because time was kind of the biggest issue before. I was just too busy. And so I did that. I started just breaking down my own music videos and the, you know, my own some of my work. And I just, you know, showed the premiere timeline. We would watch stuff and I would c like talk about why I did what I did in the edit. And those didn't do that well. well they did actually pretty good for my standards. They got like a thousand views or so per video. And I was like, okay, this is I mean that's cool. Like that's that's cool that this like random niche topic of like editing music videos, like there's people watching it, which is really interesting. And then I started breaking down other people's work. So I did a Taylor Swift music video and I did a K-pop music video that I had liked at the time. And The Taylor Swift video like really started to take off. It started just going crazy. And I was like, Whoa, this is cra like this is nuts. Like I don't I never thought I would this would happen. Like I was just gonna do this to pass the time during the pandemic until the work picked up again. Yeah. And ⁓ so yeah, it was about it was probably about after two months after starting was when that Taylor Swift video started picking up. So then I just kinda kept doing that and I would do like Just a variety of music videos and just break them down from an editing perspective. And ⁓ eventually I would do like both American music videos and k-pop music videos, because K-pop music videos are just nuts and ⁓ they're crazy, they're wild. And so they're just fun to break down. And the K-pop fan base just really kind of took over my channel. I'll kind of along with the Swifties a little bit, but they're just there's too much K-pop for the Swifties to handle. And they're also they kind of They I don't know if they beef, but they kind of cross over. Like if there's a Venn diagram, there's some that like both, I would say. ⁓ so then my channel recently, I mean not that recently, but in the past few years has kind of become like a K-pop reaction channel essentially, where I'm breaking down all the music videos from like a storytelling and editing perspective. And people seem to enjoy it. So I I'm still doing that, and that's kinda like my main source of income and and business right now is doing YouTube. Which I never set out to do. Like I was I thought like I said, I thought I was just gonna be an editor at some desk job working at some company. Like that was my plan that I had in mind for my life. And the Lord like really turned that somewhere else. So every time I'm like pretty often in the videos, I'm like reacting, watching, you know, talking to the camera, saying stuff, and I'm like, what is my job? Like this is what am I doing right now? And I just like look up and I'm like, Okay, what are you doing, God? So that's kind of fun. Yeah, but so I have a K-pop channel, I also have a second channel that's more so for American music videos. So if you're like, hey, K-pop's not my thing, that's what the second channel's for.

speaker-1: More. So yeah, and you got you have another channel too, which is kind of a new venture, which is ⁓ the Jordan Cale. And so with Jordan Cale, you're exploring more of your faith and bringing that into ⁓ your content. And I really liked just your your opening videos where it was very ⁓

speaker-0: Yeah, Jordan Cale. Yeah.

speaker-1: kinda like cinematic vlog style. Yeah. ⁓ and then recently you put out ⁓ your trip to a monastery, mm ⁓ which was really cool and and fascinating to to see again as a Protestant as well, like seeing ⁓ the the lifestyle of silent monks basically. Yeah. ⁓ it's really cool to see crazy and a great fascinating great idea. ⁓ and great, you know, your

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah.

speaker-1: Your YouTube experience definitely shows the like the sophistication of the thumbnails ⁓ and grabbing attention, and then your storytelling is just great in it as well. ⁓ and so you have kind of like a a very interesting journey into becoming a little bit more overt with your faith. ⁓ and you kinda like link that to some Christian TikTokers. ⁓ I'd be curious of that story, how that came about, and if you're able to share who those TikTokers are. Yeah. Actually, being a little bit of an older millennial, ⁓ have not really spent a whole lot of time on TikTok. ⁓ and that is probably to the detriment of my film career. Yeah. ⁓ and so I don't even know if I would know them unless they pop off in other areas. But ⁓ yeah, I'm curious to like that story and ⁓ how you got involved with it.

speaker-0: Yeah, that was a pretty crazy story. so at the time I was kind of just doing my I mean, for the majority of the time doing YouTube, I was also freelance editing a little bit. And I saw like I saw this guy called Jimmy Darts and he was doing kind of like kindness videos where he would find people that, you know, maybe weren't I don't really know exactly what he did starting, but right now what he's doing is he does these like kindness tests where he'll like ask somebody if they dropped something and if they tell the truth then he'll you know give them some money and usually there's some kind of story that it ties to them. Like maybe they're going through cancer or maybe they've been, you know, houseless for a while and so the Then he uses his community to raise money for them and ⁓ and do that. But he was so I actually just saw him on I believe his TikTok and I just randomly emailed him and I was like this is like the longest long shot ever. This the this story is turning out to like being a cold outreach story, which is kind of funny. ⁓ I don't normally ever do cold outreach, but there's been a couple of cases where it does work pretty well, and this is one of them. So I just I remember ⁓ him actually seeing the email and he said it was crazy like the coincidence that it was that he saw that email. and he's like, I just happened to see it. Yes, it's still going. ⁓ and he's like, I just happened to see it and I was I was interested. And what I proposed was I knew that a lot of TikTok creators want to end up doing YouTube and want to end up doing long form because then you can connect with your audience in a deeper way and it's just it's better for business in general. And so I was like, hey, if you ever want to take this format and try to make it a long form video ⁓ or long form videos, I'd love to help you with that. And that was pretty much my pitch. That was my offer. And so he thought that was interesting, so we got lunch at some point and just got to connect and then he invited me to a shoot that he was doing where he was giving away a car. Like he had a connection with the dealer or something and found a guy that really needed a car. And one of his short form videos. ⁓ and so he decided, hey, let's make a long form video and a short form video about getting this guy a car. So I was like, I'm gonna come with you on the shoot and we'll try to figure out how to make the best long form video that we can. And so I just spent the day with him and those TikTokers were there as well. He had like a few of his his buddies that were also Christians and TikTok creators. ⁓ I believe we had Jericho. I think if you just look him up on TikTok and then Frankie Logana was there. who's the other guy that you like with the orange band? Josh. Josh Morris. Yeah. Josh Morris was one. and then there's a few other people. There's one guy that ⁓ now works with Ryan Trahan who was there, but they're all kind of all friends. ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: So yeah, so we were all kind of just running around crazy, just trying to organize like a party where we could invite this guy and invite like a bunch of random people and give away the car at this party to this guy. And so it was chaos the whole day. It was just what? It was there was a lot of cooks in the kitchen, but it was mostly like Jimmy just trying to figure it out and us just like going along for the ride and having fun. And so they're just a rag tag bunch of

speaker-1: It sounds like a lot of people organized, a lot of cooks in the kitchen.

speaker-0: hooligans and it was a good time. But anyway, they found these random people and said, Hey, can we have a party at your house tonight, please? And they said yes. And it was just like a little backyard wholesome party. We had some pizza and soda and the party was like a diversion to get the guy to come, but then we could give away the car there, like in the street. So we did that, gave away the car. It was really cool. ⁓ very emotional, very fun.

speaker-1: Like you.

speaker-0: And then afterwards we were picking up the party and ⁓ there was this like the owner of the party or the owner of the house who was you know a woman came up and she was like, Hey, thank you so much for not like destroying our house and being respectful. Cause they were nervous. I know they were so nervous. Like we got random guys come up and say, like, hey, can we throw a party at your house? And for some reason they said yes. I have no idea why. But they did. And she s so she said thank you. And then I was with Frankie and Frankie was like, Hey, do you have ⁓ like pain in your left knee? And so and she was like, Wait, yeah, I do. That's kind of crazy. And so, ⁓ a couple guys like came around and prayed for her, and then he was like, Hey, just test it out because it really hurt when she w goes upstairs. ⁓ and so she went up like to the porch, started like walking up the stairs, and she was like, This is crazy, it doesn't really hurt at all. And we were like, Yay, praise God. And And I come from like a pretty like conservative Baptist background, so that was nothing I'd never seen anything like that before. I was like, okay, that's kind weird. ⁓ and then ⁓ the husband also comes up, the owner of the house, and ⁓ he said that his back hurt. And so we prayed over his back for a little bit, and he was like testing it out, and he's Man, my back feels way better too. And so then there's a bunch of people like coming up that were still kind of there mingling around at the party, and then we were just like Encouraging people and praying for them and it was just kind of a weird experience. And like none of this is in the video. Like it's just kind of what happened after the party. And it was very organic. And so at that point I was like, okay, I've been kind of living for myself and I wasn't taking this faith thing seriously. Like I I would call myself a Christian. But I was like, okay. ⁓ now I have something to think about a little bit. Cause I had just never seen anything like that before. And so I was I just remember driving home being like, okay, that was kind of a crazy day and a crazy night. And I just it just made me want to seek the Lord more. And so ⁓ and I think this was happening around the time of the Asbury revival as well. Nice. and so and I remember like a big thing that marks revival is repentance, and that was highlighted a lot in that particular revival ⁓ at at Asbury. And so I just remember like driving one day and then just deciding to repent in the car. And I was just driving alone. And I just started crying. And I just felt like the Holy Spirit ⁓ just in that car with me. And I was just really repenting of like my greed and selfishness and just living for myself at that time. And and I felt like that was a big moment for me where I just kind of rededicated myself to the Lord. And re like genuinely repented. Like instead of being like, okay, I'm gonna try to make the biggest projects ever and make the most money and be famous. And ca that's kind of what I was trying to do initially for survival, but then it kinda worked. So then I just kind of kept going in that direction. And and I decided, okay, I'm gonna turn away from that and now I just really want to live for you, Lord. And I just want to be obsessed with Jesus and just try to become like Jesus. Like I want that to be my life goal. And so that was like a big turning point for me. And ⁓ so real

speaker-1: Yeah You wanted to go to a Christian college out the gate, you know I wanna be in the community like that. Yep. ⁓ and so when I when I hear Azusa, I come from a like a charismatic Pentecostal background. So Azusa is Azusa Street Revival is r very big for yeah ⁓ the charismatic movement and if not like kind of the birthplace of it. Yeah. ⁓ and so did you encounter anything? I don't know anything about Azusa the college that you attended. Yeah. ⁓ but was there anything like that happening or is it pretty like Like that.

speaker-0: Just not really. The what is I think the denomination that so Azusa Pacific is pretty non-denominational in their like who attends there. They have anybody from like somewhat like a Catholic to like a random Protestant. So it's it's pretty diverse. ⁓ but their like tradition and their theology is Wesleyan. So that's that's what they have. So I don't know. I don't think that has anything to do with charismatic really, but ⁓ I don't know.

speaker-1: Okay. Kinda like Pentecostalism stems out of Wesleyan. Yeah. So it's like kinda like the next ⁓ in an awkward phrasing evolution of Wesleyan. But yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, at APU, at Azusa Pacific, it wasn't really Pentecostal. It it felt more like a den non-denominational Baptist kind of background, to me at least.

speaker-1: My I went to ⁓ a Christian university for the first years of college. Okay. And that was ⁓ Free Methodist, which is pretty close to Wesleyan. ⁓ and again, you know, that's a an important part of this show is like this is the interdenominational show. I have respect for all denominations. Yeah. whether they're in Protestantism, whether it's Catholic or Orthodox, I think each denomination has its strengths and weaknesses and and it's important to to recognize the weaknesses of your own. Like I I think Pentecostalism does tend to get a little bit too heavy into ⁓ emotionalism and hype. Mm-hmm and even playing into a little bit of revival culture that I feel like is trying to make it a contrived thing versus an organic repentance based pursuing the Lord thing. But ⁓ Yeah, and so my experience at that college just grew in a a a greater appreciation for all denominations 'cause I was encountering random Baptist, the the random yeah, you know, Lutheran, Catholic, whatever. They were just attending the school right ⁓ that happened to be Christian, even though the church joined to them was like a specific denomination. Yeah. The institution itself is like this is where we're gonna you know, this is what we'll teach on. We'll leave it up to you for establishing your doctrine. So ⁓

speaker-0: Yeah, my experience was pretty similar, for sure.

speaker-1: And so with ⁓ kind of like getting outside of college and doing this experience and experiencing healings, ⁓ and bringing you to a place of repentance, I just think that's so beautiful. And I think it's ⁓ yeah, this is probably the second time on the show that someone's just talked about repentance. And I feel like it's just in general in our ⁓ I guess in today's day and age in in church culture, I think there's kind of the height movement. Yeah. ⁓ you pair that with social media, you pair that with church marketing. ⁓ and I feel like repentance sometimes doesn't have a a platform because of of marketing, and trying to get people into the doors of the church. And it might happen in small groups and individuals, but ⁓ you know, I think it's so important to hear testimonies like yours to where it's like I I saw something that needed change, I needed to go the other way into the Lord, ⁓ and it resulted in a very fruitful experience. ⁓ and so I think it's super cool that you're sharing that. and in following that, ⁓ and not just like letting that experience be like a one-and-done thing. ⁓ and so to kind of like pivot, ⁓ since you've made this change in your content and you're still doing you know the K pop stuff and and editing ⁓ I'm curious to like kind of the reaction that you've seen from your audience that have like stuck with you. I was watching a video earlier today that you released like five days ago. That like kind of a live stream, just talking with your audience. ⁓ and you got like it was just having a conversation. I think that's really cool how you approach that as well of like I'm just I'm not here to ⁓ preach at you or give a lecture, you like literally said, but I'm just here to like have a conversation and make family. And so do you feel like the reception's been pretty positive so far? Have you had like kind of like irksome moments?

speaker-0: right there. Yeah. Well that so that was a thing that I had seen another creator do, the live stream specifically. ⁓ his name is Hang Tan and he's like a big ⁓ challenge IRL creator, but he's also a Christian for sure. And so I saw him do similar things. He puts like verses in his description or pinned comments all the time. And it's very just like like family fun. Like that's kind of his his MO. And I had been doing I have a an like a a course and I do coaching from time to time for creators and then editors specifically as well. And I had a Bible study every day I on on Wednesday just for that community. I have like a little Discord community too. and and so I'd kind of put it on pause the last few months, just trying to reorient like what I feel like the Lord wanted me to do. But I was really inspired by what Hangtime was doing. And And so I decided like, hey, let's just make this an a live stream every Wednesday. And I wasn't even sure if I was gonna do it. So what you just watched was me like just black going live at that time and being like, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this. What do you guys think? Should we should we try this? And you're

speaker-1: fun along the way, you're at the debate like pancakes over waffles. It's not like super heavy, but it's it's planting a seed for sure.

speaker-0: Exactly. Yeah, so I just I think it's it's fun, especially now nowadays too. I think a lot of people want to connect with creators at a deeper level and live streams are just an easy, fun way to do that. Mm-hmm. Where it doesn't really require a lot of work for me other than just sitting in front of a computer for an hour. and so yeah, and I think I really wanted to see I wanna see this K pop thing because it's it's really random. It's like I'm not like the biggest K-pop fan myself. I love the music videos. And I love the art behind it. Yeah. And so I love breaking that stuff down. But to me, it's like the Lord has given me this audience that I normally would not have. Like they're not like me per se. And so sometimes I feel like it's harder to for me to connect to them. but that it's it's very international. There's like people from every background, like a super diverse audience. And so The fact that people could potentially like sit down and we could hang out together on a live stream and we could have interesting conversations about faith in a safe environment where we're just like open. ⁓ I think that's an interesting idea and I'd love to try it. So next Wednesday we're gonna try it. That'll be like the first official launch. And I'm s it's still gonna be very low-key though. It's just gonna be more like hanging out. It's not gonna be like, okay, I have my notes now and we're gonna Cover this passage and talk about this thing, but ⁓ even on the drive down, I was talking with my wife, and like just the the question of like ⁓ idolatry, because in K-pop, literally the ⁓ the bands or like whoever is you like your favorite member from a group is called your idol. Like that's that's just what they call it. Yeah. And so it's like that's kind of interesting in light of you know Christianity and following Jesus. So like, what is the line between Like are you actually idolizing this person or are you not? And is that good? Is that healthy? Is that not good?

speaker-1: I mean, yeah, I'd it's interesting. I I won't go deep deep into it, but like I I know someone who's like in a a committed relationship with their partner and and then they have on their desk like a picture of this dude. Yeah. ⁓ that's part of one of these K pop bands. And it's like it's like it's a little weird that like you have a friend photo of this person you don't know but not your partner. Yeah. ⁓ so interesting.

speaker-0: Yeah. Exactly, exactly. So I think even just opening up and having those conversations in a respectful, honest way, I totally expect the chat to get a little wild. I'm not gonna lie. It's gonna get weird and there's gonna be some haters and there's gonna be there's gonna need to be some moderation for sure. So I need to have some help with that. But I think it like to me they're those are just interesting conversations in general and hopefully other people will find them interesting and then like you said, hopefully it'll plant seeds for people that want to explore faith in Jesus more. So

speaker-1: Yeah. Something that we kinda I feel like kinda skipped over is your time ⁓ with the editing podcast. Yeah. And that's is that the title of it super out there. Well, I mean you've you've got the chance to talk to some of like the highest like functioning editors in the in the game. Like you had the editor of Dune on there. I'm kinda spacing on some of the other guests that you've had, but this is a very well you've had

speaker-0: The editing podcast. Yeah, super.

speaker-1: very pro prolific professional guys in there who are making Hollywood blockbusters. Yeah. ⁓ and you had a a co host that you seemed pretty tight with. Yeah. ⁓ and you you felt like within this time of repentance and a change was coming that this was something that you were going to kinda like pivot from. Yeah. ⁓ and so I'm curious to like that story, I don't know how much you want to get into if it's mid or anything, 'cause you it's a you got your co hosts were seemed tight. Totally. But ⁓ yeah, I'd love to know that story a little bit more. Yeah.

speaker-0: So Hayden's the co-host. He was ⁓ Logan Paul's editor. He's actually editing for Logan Paul right now. He's editing a documentary. Wow. ⁓ which is pretty exciting, pretty cool. and so yeah, we we kind of both he actually s what he says is he's he saw my YouTube channel back in 2020 when I started, and I was talking less so about like, hey, here's how you make this transition and more so about the psychology of editing and filmmaking and like, hey, if you do this thing, it creates this emotional effect in people. And Hayden always like loves that stuff and it was like, man, I love the psychology of editing. He loves the craft. He is I think he's way better editor than I am. And so I just really look up to him in that. And ⁓ so he ed he was like, hey, I saw that people were interested in that. And so he started his own YouTube channel. Which is Yeah.

speaker-1: ⁓ Crazy smart idea to start an editing podcast. ⁓ and you know, I my last job was ⁓ being a video editor at a ⁓ a nonprofit in Temecula and and so it was me and this other guy that were the video editors and so you know both of us would be watching your guys' show.

speaker-0: ⁓ my goodness.

speaker-1: You seeing those episodes. So it's like there's obviously an audience and like me, I'm trying to focus onto the director's chair and produce computers length films, but my coworker was like all he wants to do is editing. So he was really committed to the show and watching it. And so I'm picking up tips and tricks and going into the psychology. So yeah. It was super genius ⁓ move. 'Cause like who else is making an editing podcast, you know? So

speaker-0: Awesome. Yeah, yeah. We didn't really know. I mean, I had I remember in film school 'cause I would got obsessed with editing while I was in film school because I was like, that's the only thing I really like. So and I wanna be, you know, I had that mindset of I need to survive after, so I'm gonna learn everything I can about being an editor. And so there were there's definitely some podcasts that I listened to, but they were not well produced really. The hosts weren't very charismatic. It was kinda like, ⁓ this is a really boring show, but I'm here because I love this topic, but like it's not gonna get a lot of viewership. but yeah, Hayden started his channel. I had my channel. We were both kind of talking about psychology things from different perspectives. He had his background was in YouTube, you know, editing for Logan Paul, and then my background was in like commercials and music videos. So we kind of had two different niches. We could kind of bring both of those things to the table. And then ⁓ He was kind of thinking about starting a podcast and I was sort of thinking about it too. So I just I remember texting him because we just kind of knew each other ⁓ at that time because we were essentially doing the same thing but in different niches. And I was like, hey, should we start an editing podcast? And he was like, Yeah, let's do it. So then we just got lunch one day and decided to give it a shot. And yeah, it's it's a really great show. I still firmly believe it is like the best content out there on editing because it's literally just a brain download of the world's best editors on a on a podcast, which is like for us, we were like, man, this is a dream because we basically get to go to film school for free, just learning from the best in the world, which is so fun. ⁓ and just bring our audience along with it. So yeah. And ⁓ as far as the transition, it was, it's like, like we said, it's really like I said before, it's really hard running a show. And we were trying to produce it at like the highest level that we possibly could. And ⁓ yeah, and I felt like the Lord was maybe calling me to to step away and and do something else. And Hayden, I know was, you know, he's he's been, you know, life has happened for him too, and I won't go into all that, but there's just been a lot of circumstances that led to us kind of taking a break. So the show's not like canceled or like completely done, but we're definitely on a break. Like he's editing a feature film right now for Logan Paul. So he's like, that's all I can do right now. And I'm, you know. Going and trying to follow what the Lord has for me too. So, ⁓ that's that's where we stand right now. So it it's definitely on a break, but ⁓

speaker-1: Still still around potentially for the

speaker-0: Who knows, yeah. Who knows what the future holds. So ⁓ good. But yeah, but it's been a little while since we put out some episodes. So

speaker-1: Yeah. Cool. Well I know you guys got a great fan base and you know, I love seeing the the episodes, so I appreciate it.

speaker-0: Appreciate it. But yeah, it's a lot of work. It's like it's a whole it's a whole it could be a whole full-time job for sure. Yeah. Just to make that show. So

speaker-1: With you and Hayden going to what you're focusing in on now. Yeah. ⁓ and how the Lord is is moving your heart towards a direction. ⁓ it's kinda like you and your wife Ashley had some lucrative opportunities ⁓ before you and Ashley's joined us in the studio. This the first time we've had a single audience member. Wow. but

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: And so it sounds like you guys had some some opportunities that were before you but the Lord was stirring your heart into a different direction. Yeah. And so I was curious of ⁓ if I was curious if that felt stressful for just your life in general, ⁓ if you had just like complete faith and confidence in the Lord, ⁓ how that potentially even affects your guys' marriage. So I think that's something that kinda gets left out of. a creative story is like we see we see the work right and we're like, ⁓ you're an amazing creative. You're so talented. You're so gifted. But then it's like you don't know what the toll of that was on my my just my mental health, my marriage, my family. Yeah. ⁓ and how like, you know doing creative endeavors is kind of like a sacrifice of time into specific areas, especially when you have to provide another. So I'm just curious if that was a part of your journeying it all. ⁓ into share what you feel comfortable with.

speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. I mean I've I've definitely talked with ⁓ like coming to mind right now I had a conversation recently with ⁓ his name's Tom Scott and he's the editor of the animated film David that came out fairly recently. And he was even asking me kind of a similar question because the film primarily was being made in South Africa and he was traveling from Pasadena to South Africa like quite a lot. And like just imagine the jet lag of that. Like every other month. It's just nuts. And so he was like and then he was just saying, like, and this happens to a lot of the editors I talk with on the editing podcast, or directors or whoever it is, like they're so good at their job because they obsess over it. And it's like like you're falling asleep at night just thinking about, ⁓ like how do I edit this thing or how do I like change this thing to make it work better? Like that's just consuming your thoughts constantly. And so like he was like, how do you like, how do you deal with that in a marriage? Because it's You wanna give your partner like complete attention. And I'm really bad at being interruptible oftentimes when I'm working or zoning out or thinking about other things and not being present with Ashley. ⁓ is that me? My bad. I have alarms all the time. No worries. so so yeah, so that's something I've had to work on a lot, and I'm still not the best at, but trying to get better at it. And and yeah, with as far as like potential opportunities, Ashley is like the most supportive person ever in that where she's like, Yeah, whatever you think, or like whatever God's saying, like you just do that. She's very she's not really worried about ⁓ provision. Like I've never seen her be like, ⁓ man, I'm worried if we're gonna make it or not. She's very, very good at having faith and being like, ⁓ yes, if it's his will, it's his bill. Like she'll say things like that. So that's a good one. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, like if I'm like, hey, we might have to say no to this huge opportunity, she like doesn't blink about it at all and is very, very supportive. She's like, Yeah, whatever. Whatever you think. That's awesome. ⁓ so that's like huge. ⁓ because I feel like I feel the weight of it way more than she does as far as

speaker-1: Like that.

speaker-0: saying yes or no to certain things and sometimes I get really in my head about certain decisions, especially when you're a freelancer and like you don't have a preset plan or like a task list. It's like you're kind of free flowing in the world. And so I'm really right now I'm really learning about discernment and trying to learn how to hear God's voice to help me make those decisions because they can be really overwhelming for me. And I'm not good at it. And I make I make wrong decisions constantly. So I'm I'm really like I'm literally like looking for resources right now. Like, okay, how do I learn how to really listen to God's voice and discern well? ⁓ so that's something I'm in the midst of learning. And ⁓ yeah, is but I think Like God knew I needed somebody like Ashley to partner with me in life because my job is wild and all over the place. And she's really really good at handling that. So I'm very thankful for her. Yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah. That's awesome. Shout out to to wonderful spouses, wonderful wives. ⁓ For real. If you're someone who loves apparel that shows your creative side while sharing your faith, I've just the thing for you. Our sponsor, the Printing Ox, has hooked us up with some t-shirts I designed that we're planning to launch later this summer. If you want to support the show, go ahead and pre-order one of the shirts. It has the Creative Chapel logo on the front, and on the back it says you were made to create, with the scripture of Revelation 4.11 underneath. You might even recognize the design from our backdrop here at the studio. If you'd like to pre-order a shirt, visit the link in our description. And if you have any t-shirt needs for your church, business, or event, make sure to hit up my buddy Forrest at the PrintingOx. He does everything with quality and exemplifies the creative chapel spirit. Visit his link in the description as well. Alright, back to the show. So I'd love to pull on that thread that you just brought up of listening to the voice of God. Yeah. ⁓ I feel like I'm kind of in a similar place and you know, growing up. Charismatic Pentecostal Yeah. You know, it's it's pressed upon so heavily. to a point that I feel like even again going into strengths and weaknesses, ⁓ I think it's a absolute strength to to believe that God speaks. ⁓ but also I think sometimes the the execution and like the the encouragement to follow that can l lead to some difficult places. Yeah. So I'd love to ⁓ to hear what you're learning. ⁓ and I can even offer some some ideas into it because I'm kind of in the same place right now. of of I've gone through a lot of bouts with listening to the voice of God and feeling like it's like I have absolute certainty like this is God's voice. Yeah. But it's really in like just quick little moments. And any time I'm in like okay, God I'm in I'm in a state of prayer and reverence unto you and this is my quiet time and devotional time with you and I'm asking a million questions to you and I'm trying to get like a distinct answer. Yeah. ⁓ I feel like that's where I have the most like insecurity around hearing the voice of God. Like, is that me? Is that God? My subconscious? Which one? ⁓ Yeah. And I feel like I I've kind of gotten to a place lately that is just more comfortable with you know, I think being raised in the church, ⁓ there's a heavy emphasis on obedience. And and not that there shouldn't be, but in the in the fact that it's like you need to be obedient to God. And if you're not being obedient to God, it's a terrible thing. Right. And your life's gonna go off the rails and ⁓ God won't love you. ⁓ so there's this

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: There's this tendency to come to prayer and be like, okay, God, like I what do you want me to do? I'll do anything you want me to do, anything you want, just tell me what what you want me to do and I'll do it. and and like I I won't do anything else. Yeah. ⁓ and there are times that I think we enter into those conversations with God that obviously He's like, Yeah, I have a specific plan in calling for you in this season. Yeah. And I think there's other times we enter into those moments of prayer and God ⁓ either feels silent. Or things feel still a little bit ⁓ up in the air, like there's not a a concrete answer. And so I think there are times when the Lord allows us to have freedom and we forget that that's an element of God and an element of our faith. And you mentioned it earlier with free will. It's like that free will is still active.

speaker-0: Right.

speaker-1: And even in a relationship to God, where he is sovereign over our life, where he is the Lord of our life, ⁓ he he can still give you the liberty to make decisions and to to collaborate with him in that it's not just a dictatorship over your life. We had another guest on the show, ⁓ a director of my the name of Chris Francis, and we had kind of a similar talking point of just the the collaboration that you know Jesus says to ⁓ yoke yourself to him. So when I think of a yoke, I I could use maybe a better research on yokes, but when I think of it, I see like two creatures side by side yoked together, trudging along forward. And so if that's the same imagery that maybe Jesus was talking about, like that's side by side together. And there's not one ahead of the other. and so I think with that is just ⁓ an example of partnership that's like God is willing to He's so gracious and so patient and so kind that He's like, I don't need to dictate your life. you know, we can collaborate and so if you have decisions before you to make and choices before you, ⁓ you're still my will, I still love you, and the choice is yours. Like I give you the liberty and the freedom to make that. And so sometimes that feels like it's not sufficient enough when we enter into the moments of prayer and we're like trying to seek the Lord's voice and his direction and be like, No, God, you need to tell me exactly which choice to make. Do I choose this job or this? ⁓ Do I choose this gig or whatever? there's a fork in the road. Tell me which which road to go down. ⁓ and he's like, I mean, I'm with you either way, you know, the choice is yours. ⁓ and so I feel like that's kind of been a part of my story lately is that there's been choices to make and it's like

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: Okay, God, I wanna be in your will, so y you have to tell me which choice to make. ⁓ and I think he's just given me the freedom to choose and I've gotten frustrated at the freedom. That's like, no God, like I have to be obedient to you. ⁓ so if you're not calling the shot, it feels like I'm calling the shot and that's not That's not okay. Yeah. ⁓ and so yeah, y you mentioned some of that's relatable. ⁓ but I'm curious to to know more about what you're learning about hearing the voice of God. Whether that's practices, whether that's mindset or or position of faith or anything. Yeah.

speaker-0: That's good. I think it's interesting, like a lot of that was so relevant to what even just like the past couple weeks I've been wrestling with, ⁓ particularly with ⁓ just like brand deal decisions. Like that's kind of what I like specifically what it's been. And I felt like I felt like maybe God said I shouldn't do it. And I was, but this is on transparently this is like the biggest brand deal I've ever had the opportunity to have. And so I was like, am I being selfish, like saying yes to this? There wasn't really anything at the time, or I'm I'm still kind of wrestling with it a little bit, but there wasn't anything like inherently wrong with the deal. It was just like I kind of felt like it might have been like a test of the Lord being like, Hey, are you like, will you trust me to do something that maybe doesn't make logical sense? in this time. And I I kinda kept thinking about like Abraham sacrificing Isaac. Like that doesn't make any sense at all. like, you know, he he's been praying, the Lord's been saying, like, hey, you're gonna have all these descendants. I gave you the one descendant that you needed and like now get rid of him. Like that just like okay. Like if he went and s like was seeking wise counsel about that, every would like, no, you're crazy. Like don't do that. Don't kill your son, bro. and so that kind of kept going through my mind and so I was yeah, I was just kinda like feeling anxious about it and struggling and wanting to Be like, am I and just not sure about like what I was discerning. And so, yeah, and I so I've just been kind of wrestling with that, seeking seeking resources about that. And I think I think it might have been Billy Graham, don't quote me on that, but even to what you were saying before where you like sit down and be like, Okay, I'm going to now pray and we're going to come to a decision now. Let's do that. And he said like he had a lot of ⁓ terribly for him oftentimes and what he would end up want like doing instead if he wanted to hear God's voice is like just do something kind of mindless like think like vacuuming the house or you know just doing something with your hands and like the little voice of God might just pop into your thoughts like during that time. And so kinda like what you said earlier where it's like I'm would hear little glimpses at times but if I'm like sitting down like okay we're gonna have a quiet time now and you're gonna tell me what to do It's just interesting that I've heard like that's what he said too. ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah. There's a ⁓ a book behind you by it's a translation or like an interview of this monk named Brother Lawrence. It's that thin one there. Ooh, I love Brother Lawrence. Yeah, so it's the third one from the top I think. This guy. Yeah.

speaker-0: Is this the ⁓ practicing the presence of God? Yes, bro.

speaker-1: Yeah. And so that reminds me a lot of of Brother Lawrence of like just in the mundane ⁓ and in the in the activity, like that can be a place where God meets you. Yeah. I think even like I think that's so hard in the craft of filmmaking specifically. Yeah. Especially when you're on set. ⁓ 'cause there's just like a million things can go wrong. It's so technical, there's people to manage. ⁓ so it it feels really hard to to hear God's voice in that place. But You know, I'm I'm excited to get somebody on the show who is outside of filmmaking that can like ⁓ who has tapped into inviting the Holy Spirit into that place and and and has heard there. But yeah. ⁓ yeah, it's it's very it's interesting linking Billy Graham to Brother Lawrence. ⁓ that's true. Yeah. ⁓ but yeah. and so y you brought up brand deals. Yeah. ⁓ and so

speaker-0: That's funny connection.

speaker-1: Because like that connects well into kind of like what you're doing with coaching. and and this is kinda like a new venture for you a little bit or a while. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, I'm curious to like just how's coaching been? ⁓ do you feel like it's very natural to you to be in a educational place? and do you find it to be a place of like spiritual mentorship as well? Or is there kinda like boundaries of like you're here to learn a thing, I'm gonna teach you how to do that thing. Yeah ⁓ whereas I think yeah, I'll let you think answer that.

speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. So I think I started coaching well I had a course just like an online video lesson course for about Two or three years. And then last year, around May, I I decided to try to do one-on-one coaching for the first time. I'd never done anything like that before. And ⁓ I actually got a mentor to help me as well. So I basically got a coach to teach me how to coach because I didn't know what I was doing. ⁓ and he was super instrumental, he's a follower of Jesus' as well, and ⁓ just really he's a super young guy, but like very smart and very wise. And So did that and so all of last year there's a ton of coaching, even the beginning of this year a little bit. and it's been it's it's not really something that you know as an introvert I'm very used to. and you know, the idea of just being on a lot of calls or you know, helping a ton of people, but as far as like ⁓ purpose and, you know, a job that really is fulfilling. Like I do find it very fulfilling in in being able to actually help people with a skill that they can use for the rest of their lives. ⁓ whether it's editing or being a content creator, or You know, and specifically I'm trying to target a lot of Christians a little bit more. ⁓ totally welcome if you're not a Christian or not a believer, I would love to help you. But I I do think the ability to multiply my impact and my knowledge into somebody else and see what they do for the kingdom is just very, very rewarding. And you can see how that can you know multiply itself fifty a hundred times ⁓ through the art that somebody else makes. So that's been really fun. ⁓

speaker-1: And it's for like coaching into the creator economy, right? Like kinda you

speaker-0: Yeah, so like kinda have the main the main pier person that I coach is somebody who wants to go full time editing and wants that to be their career. So that's the main person. I have coached a few people that want to go full time as a content creator as well. So I don't have as many of those clients, but I've done like probably about three. ⁓ so that's been a lot of fun too, helping them out, you know, learning everything that I know after being a creator, a YouTuber professionally for you know, five years or so. So ⁓

speaker-1: Is there any is there any like introductory tip, tip and trick that you could give to give a like a freebie? Yeah. To ⁓ introduce people to your your coaching? Absolutely.

speaker-0: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think ⁓ what's funny too is I'm actually not doing coaching right now. I've paused it. Okay. ⁓ but I might pick it up again. But what I would say it's both for content creators and for editors is ⁓ the first thing is just trying to figure out your niche, honestly. And ⁓ especially with editing and filmmaking, ⁓ there's so many different ways that you could be an editor. specifically who I help is editors, but this applies to being a director, to being a cinematographer, to being, you know, any filmmaking job, or even a creator. and there's a there's kind of like two schools of thought where some people are like, especially on the creator side, like don't niche down because then you get stuck or you get pigeonholed in that niche. But it is so hard to just like be like, I'm here, hire me for anything because that really decreases trust in what people will hire you for. So I really help editors, you know, figure out what their niche is, what they would love to do. and I think it's an it's important that you have purpose behind your niche as well. So like it could be like I have a client who really is a like strong follower of Jesus, and he just is unsatisfied doing stuff that's like not faith-based. So he's he wants to know like this is going to help the kingdom, and so I want to do something that's faith-based. So that just helps him narrow down potential clients. ⁓ and then we craft a portfolio and a reel based on that niche so that they can go out and network with those people and find exactly that type of person. And then trust just goes through the roof. That if you're like, bro, I specifically do real estate videos and in this area for you know real estate agents, then it's like a boo dude, like you're a no-brainer hire, especially if your work's good ⁓ and it fits within my budget range, like yes, a real estate agent would love to hire you for that. And so That's just like something super easy. ⁓ but that's kind of the core of the whole program. And like I would would love to just give away all the information, like and I do at times in some of my YouTube videos. ⁓ and I've talked about it before, but actually implementing it and know and understanding and like uncovering those things inside of you that you might not know are there. That's super helpful to have a coach help you do that and then help you implement it and know exactly what to do. And you hold you accountable to it. Because a lot of people know what to do, but they just don't do it. So they're like Me. And and then yeah, so it and it does get hard. Like it's not an easy thing to become a creator or become a pro editor, otherwise everybody would do it. And so, you know, having some help is super.

speaker-1: Nice. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: ⁓ if you pick up coaching again.

speaker-0: ⁓ I probably will. So right now I'm just on hiatus to do Jordan Cale. So that's

speaker-1: Yeah. That's what I'm doing. And so ⁓ with Jordan Cale, yeah ⁓ I'd love for you to give like closing thoughts with that. ⁓ and and your your journey where you see Jordan Cale going, and ⁓ your plans for

speaker-0: We I appreciate it. So funny enough, my middle name is actually Kalay. So I know when you were like trying to pronounce it, I might have said Jordan Calais in the past. I literally like two days ago decided I'm just calling it Jordan Kale, because that's what everybody's gonna say. So it's like Jordan Kale like the leaf. But my middle name is Calais and it's spelt exactly like Kale. So now anybody that watches this podcast, they now know what the real meaning behind it is. ⁓ that's just a little Easter egg for you.

speaker-1: Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: But so this is something that I really feel like the Lord is calling me into, and because of that, other things in my life have had to go, like coaching or you know, like the editing podcast, things like that. And ⁓ it's a show where I find people that are living unique Christian lives. ⁓ like for example, the monk video that I did, you know, not everybody's living at a monastery their whole life, taking vows of silence and celibacy and all of those things. Yeah, so finding unique people and just like spending the day with them or, you know, just finding out what their life is like and creating essentially a cinematic vlog that kind of feels like a documentary but kind of feels like a first person experience into what their life is like. ⁓ so yeah, yesterday I literally not yesterday, two days ago, I filmed a ⁓ an event in Huntington Beach where a pastor was preaching the gospel to a bunch of people in LA, which, you know, that could be interesting. So, ⁓ Just filmed another video then and I have a ton of ideas. And so I'm constantly looking for either ministries or unique individuals or groups that are living for Jesus in ⁓ I keep saying unique, I need to find another word for it. But living for Jesus in in in interesting and radical ways. So if you know of a story or if you know of anybody, I would love to connect with them. This is like completely out of my comfort zone too. I ⁓ don't know how to make videos like this 'cause I haven't really done it before. So I feel like I'm starting from scratch and I'm I'm a student and I'm really leaning into the verse where Paul says or Jesus says to Paul ⁓ like made perfect in weakness. So I'm I'm really like feeling like a beginner again. And it's it's fun and refreshing, but also hard because I'm like, man, I just don't know what I'm doing. Trying to figure it out again. So yeah. Cool.

speaker-1: Awesome. ⁓ yeah, if I if I know any stories, I'll make sure to get you into contact. And then in the audience, if you're out there with a cool story, ⁓ make sure to hit up hit up Jordan. Yep. ⁓ and so as we wrap up the show, I like to end with two questions. And so the first one is ⁓ what is inspiring you right now? What are you inspired by that's ⁓ you know filtering its way into your work?

speaker-0: Good question. I just started reading The Creative Act by Rick Rubin. That's I got recommended by a friend, so I'm just reading that. That's just another as I'm stepping into this Jordan Cale channel, I'm just looking for new sources of inspiration. So that has been inspiring me. there's also like channels that are fairly similar, but not at all in a Christian niche to Jordan Cale that I've been watching. One is ⁓ and I don't like endorse these channels or anything, but they're inspiring to me right now. One is ⁓ Drew Binsky, he's like a big travel creator and just goes to crazy places in the world and finds interesting human stories. And ⁓ so yeah, he's been he's been inspiring me lately too.

speaker-1: Nice, it's awesome. Yeah. ⁓ last question, I'm experimenting with this. I've asked the past three guests this. Nice. ⁓ so ⁓ it's a little bit of a a lead engine for me. Is that who is someone that you would love to see on Creative Chapel?

speaker-0: Would I love to see? I would love so we actually did interview him on the editing podcast and he was so fun to talk to. I've been a fan of him for a long time too. I mentioned him as well, but Ryan Trahan, I think, is a very interesting guy. And he's also a believer.

speaker-1: I did not so I've known about Ryan's work. I've not really watched it ever. Yeah. ⁓ but yeah, it's interesting. I didn't know that.

speaker-0: He has an interesting story, like he grew up as an atheist and his wife actually led him to the Lord. And so he has a very interesting story that's not talked about a whole lot 'cause his his stuff it like isn't inherently Christian at all. ⁓ and so

speaker-1: I think I do remember a reel of him sharing that that he was an atheist and that ⁓

speaker-0: Yeah, he talked about it a podcast at one time a while ago. But it's just an interesting story and I think like getting little snapshots of where he's at in his faith too, because he's kind of a babyish Christian is is really fascinating. Yeah. And he's just a very on the surface, like he doesn't seem like a very creative person. He's like, I'm just making viral YouTube videos. Kind of like he could almost be thrown into the Mr. Beast category, but more of personality driven. ⁓ He has so much like creative intention into everything he does that is very inspiring. So like getting into his brain is very interesting.

speaker-1: Yeah. I'll add Ryan to the list. It's probably a long ways until Creative Chapel gets there, but yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Someone I just recently discovered as a Christian is ⁓ what is his name? ⁓ King. Last name King. ⁓ he's a major editor. Zach King.

speaker-0: ⁓ yes. Yeah. I shook his hand once at a conference. That's all I got. Yeah. I said hi to him.

speaker-1: So but that that's another one on my list, but that's you know, way down the line. But Jordan, thank you so much for for coming on the show. ⁓ super excited to talk to you, especially when I first reached out, you had just released your first ⁓ kind of like cinematic blog for for Jordan Cale. So it just felt like a great timing and then you know the content that you just produced and the direction. So really appreciate you being on show. Good.

speaker-0: Of course. Thanks for having me. This is so fun.

speaker-1: Thanks for watching this episode of the Creative Chapel Podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow along to stay up to date on more episodes. We're shooting out of Communion Church in San Diego, California. If you're looking for a great church to be a part of, this is the place to be. Stay faithful, stay creative, and I'll see you in the next episode.