Talking Youth Ministry and the Life of Faith with Hiro Okazaki -ep. 37

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Unison Church Podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited for this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be really interesting with my friend and mine, mutual friend of the store, as well, I think I've heard a couple other people on based from my store, but me and Hero Met, playing Pokemon, which is awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so Pokemon, a very fertile ground for spiritual conversations.

[SPEAKER_00]: Pokemon is, and so, yeah, so my friend Hero, Okazaki is here to talk about his church and his youth ministry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, thanks for having me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is uh, this is really fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I found out that you work in a church Through a mutual friend.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, you're huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yep, so usually I don't think UG is ever actually played Pokemon of my store.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like eight like one time, maybe Yeah, yeah, but he comes at my store all the time to check for singles Because he loves buying cards.

[SPEAKER_00]: He loves to play too, but he does what I've played with UG, but not at my store Oh

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it probably it's just the time that I run Pokemon is like not perfect for him, which is fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: But so he came in, we were having a conversation I mentioned that I was a pastor and he was like, No way, you know, here I was a pastor too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, what's that?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, that that I disbelieve him, but just that I was like, this is awesome that there's more people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there are like, set many people in Pokemon who my met, who are Jesus folk.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so fun to make those connections so so that was to me that was good news I was like this great I got it's hard to hear about this next time I see him and and have them on the podcast eventually So so thank you for being here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think I'm a fan-tasm.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's another story But I talk with our mom and

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, oh, like, why don't you come around and you're like, oh, you know, I'm busy, like, I'm faster.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have work and he's like, oh, you're faster, really.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then whenever I win now, or like whenever I do goodies, like, God's like, it's because you believe in Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be this is like how you die rolls or heads.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's rough.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just listen to a really interesting conversation actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I listen to a podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a stretch podcast for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is much more conservative than I am, but I listen.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's important to stay open-minded sometimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I come from a very conservative place that I sort of like deconstructed away from.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is sort of like my my like let me keep tabs a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not like crazy They're concerned about like not crazy about it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so they so it's a good podcast But anyway, they they're really into sports, which I'm not into it I'm like a the your classic nerd like I grew up like playing video games and I'm doing music exactly so

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, they were talking about, there's a big moving college football right now where there's a lot of like revival going on among like college football teams like a lot of a lot of college football teams kind of like as a team coming to Jesus and so they were having a conversation about what it means when you win your football game and you say we won because of Jesus

[SPEAKER_00]: and how terrible that is to say because what does that mean about the other team like Maybe they should have prayed more I guess I don't know it's like a little weird That's so funny But tell us a little about your your faith journey like how did you come to faith in Jesus and what did that look like for you growing up?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think I definitely I definitely was born into it more like because my parents were

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Christians, or they were unificationists, and so growing up, I had a very normal childhood.

[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, like my testimony, I've never given a testimony, I think for this reason, because I never, like usually like testimonies like, It's like going up and down.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very bottom.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very bottom.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I found Jesus and now I'm good, but I feel like I never hit rock bottom like I was just like a just like a straight straight progression.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very slowly.

[SPEAKER_01]: But growing up, yeah, my parents, we always went to church every Sunday.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also youth ministry was a big part of my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think youth ministry is maybe a bigger part of my life into as to why I have a life of faith than sure Sunday service.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just having community, like friends of faith is very important.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think growing up, I always had friends from church that made me feel like I belonged, you know, and they believe in the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was easier for me to believe because they believed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I know like it's not necessarily like,

[SPEAKER_01]: the best way to go about life faith, you know, like you should believe in something because you believe in it not because I'll be with believe in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think when you're younger, like it helps a lot have been like a support system definitely with friends because you're still figuring out, you know, and eventually becomes your own.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so growing up, yeah, a lot of, yeah, youth ministry going to church, and but I think

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't necessarily really believe in Jesus or God.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just kind of went along with everyone else.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I knew believing in them wasn't, I think I believed in them for this fact that it wasn't a bad thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it made me a better person, so logically I was like, oh, if I believe in them, it helps me become better person, it helps me more and more about having good morals.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I believed in them, but I never was like, like, praying didn't really make sense to me growing up because it was like,

[SPEAKER_01]: read scripture and like actually like gain something sure you know sure um and I think I lived that way for a long time and I think yeah that's why I'm an engineering student or I was I'm an engineer because I'm very theological not very spiritual but um I think when I was 21 I

[SPEAKER_01]: Our church has like a holy ground in Korea.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like Israel or Jerusalem.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like Jerusalem.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I went there for like a, the host workshops where you just kind of devote your time to you and God and just learning about scripture and Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I went there and my main, my main, what I want to accomplish was like, oh, like I wanted to really like work on my faith and like actually believe,

[SPEAKER_01]: Or like kind of make it kind of decide whether I actually like believed in God or like I was just doing it because everyone else was doing it We're like my parents were telling me to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so There I think I picked up like a like a guess a like a prayer hobby in a way like that was the first time I really actually like prayed to God, you know, and like sure and I was like your God like

[SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to believe in you, because I'm very scientific, logical person.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I want you, it's very, like, weird to remember, it's like, I asked directly, you know, I was like, oh, like, if you were there, like, like, tell me something, you know, like, like, maybe like, in a way that I can understand.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the very next day, there was a sermon given by one of the pastors at the, at the,

[SPEAKER_01]: at the church I went to, and he was like, oh, like, you can't try to understand God through your through logic, through brain.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, understanding God is artistic.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you have to open your heart to Him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then through that, he can kind of fill up your life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's very ironic because that's like the last thing you do as like a logical person to believe in something before there's proof that they're real.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But...

[SPEAKER_01]: Hearing that, I was like, oh, like, if I live my life thinking the way I do very logically, just like very like, oh, like, it makes sense because it's real.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then like, I would never truly understand God.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was the takeaway from that sermon.

[SPEAKER_01]: And from there, I was like, okay, like, it's like, it's a leap of faith, literally, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're believing something, not knowing, you know, if it's necessarily real.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think through opening your heart like God cannot manifest in your life and I think through that one sermon, I slowly opened up my heart and I've had like experiences where like wow like God is real and that wouldn't have happened if I didn't like first open my heart up to him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah sure sure Yeah, that's awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I have like sort of a similar

[SPEAKER_00]: similar story of wanting it to logically make sense, but also needing to wrap your emotions in it also, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And what kind of opened that for me was some experience with, so I was raised like kind of conservative evangelical, like in a traditional like Baptist kind of way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is a lot, it actually, there's a really strong like apologetic.

[SPEAKER_00]: concern on that side of Christianity where people are like we need to be able to prove these existence of God through like science and facts.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's even like a lot of like conspiracy theory.

[SPEAKER_00]: like, oh, like modern science may say this, like they're very like anti-evolution for instance, like I have an episode actually on the podcast about this, very anti-evolution because they're like, oh, actually like, God's special created, they're earth is only like, you know, like 5,000 or 6,000 years old.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like this kind of like, we have to be able to like prove it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's these sciences over here that like they're going against the norm and they're like, they have like the real truth, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: that was like a big thing for me going up was this like a apologetic concern we're like we can prove it by you know this business and I've I've both come away from that and gotten more into it because I think some of that stuff some of that like I would now label like it's a little bit like conspiratorial but at the same time

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also like, it does make sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was just having this conversation with somebody yesterday.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is like a sense of ability.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a sense of a way like most people who are Christians that I know are Christians because they were raised that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like their parents were Christians.

[SPEAKER_00]: A family I was Christian and they came.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's there's some exceptions to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of this is like, okay, I was raised this way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is where my family was.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I decided to stick with it, and yeah, my faith became my own, but it's like I had that supportive other people like you know saying like there are other people there, and so I kind of believe it and then at some point the Lord also makes himself real to me personally right, but so there's that.

[SPEAKER_00]: and but there's also like this has to work like it also has to make sense as to be like logical to some degree and it has to be if I live in this story it makes the most sense out of like creation it makes the most sense out of this world to be that like

[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus is at the center of it and so for me that was a big that was a big thing for me Growing out of that and I had a lot of experience with Charismatic Christianity as well, especially in college, and that was a bigger thing like we used to as as a kid growing up like my church Often would have said a lot of people in my church would have said oh That is kind of Christianity where it's very emotional and like they're after like an emotional high and then experiencing

[SPEAKER_00]: um, a charismatic church, what I realized was they're not after an emotional high, but they have a better grasp of like the holisticness of people that people need not just like facts from the Bible, they also need some kind of experience that draws them into like emotional one is, one is with Jesus too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, um, it has to be like a holistic thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got to have like mind and, and body.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, yeah, yeah, go to Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think one thing I've heard that

[SPEAKER_01]: stuck with me was that you can't just know that God loves you.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to also feel that God loves you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or else it's, you need, yeah, as you said, you need both.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, virtual.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So tell me a little bit about your church.

[SPEAKER_00]: You were going to church now.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's it called?

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you do for that church?

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's called the Connecticut Family Church in Bridgeport and I'm the youth pastor, but it's more It's not I know like some people do youth pastor ship is like a full-time job like mine's more I have a full-time job aside from that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just like a weekend thing Also also only mostly only during the school year, so I run youth ministry

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like Saturdays, 3 to 6, and it's the usual just half activities and then half education.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just like trying to build a community where the kids can feel comfortable but also learn and grow in their life of faith.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what's kind of like the main purpose of the church.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like what's the church trying to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you guys have core values or statements or things like that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, core values, I would say.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think, ultimately, we're trying to achieve world peace, and I think that is, we believe it's done through unification, so our church is called unification church as a whole, so we actually exist like all over the world, like there's churches in Japan, Korea, Africa, Europe, and even in America there's a bunch of communities like Chicago, Boston, New Jersey,

[SPEAKER_01]: And we believe that like the church isn't the main focus.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like religion is there for us to learn about God and deepen our faith.

[SPEAKER_01]: And by understanding God, we can learn to love others and then through that we can unify and create, I guess, world peace.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and simple terms.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like on like a community level, so your churches in Bridgeport, like, are they active in the town trying to, like, have conversations with people or, um, a company social justice in any way, like what's, what's kind of the, the practical side of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, actually not so involved besides from you through issue.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we're not the best person to ask, but, um,

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's gonna get back to you on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But remember growing up doing youth ministry, I think back then though, when I was younger, there was a lot of emphasis on volunteering and doing garbage cleanup at parks and stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: So remember growing up as a kid, how to grow a youth ministry, and then the youth master would be like, oh, today we're going to the park to clean and you gotta pretend to be excited.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair, it's very simple community work and stuff, yeah, that's cool, that's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have like a strong, like my church has a strong for like that we're for the community, like we're supposed to be like involved in the community.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we help run like a food bank and it was supposed to be tonight, but it's was to rain today so my pizza tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_00]: At the recording of this, that we're doing like a movie night, that's like family focused on the comments free for people and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we try to give to if people come needing like gas or some bill pay like we try to step in or we can That's correct.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have the finances to do so stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we think it's like part of Part of finding life in Jesus because we're all about we used this to help our community find life in Jesus Part of finding life Jesus is reaching out and and helping people and doing the things that Jesus would do.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the idea So let's go

[SPEAKER_00]: So what we tell us to tell us more though, like what kind of stuff do you teach at your youth group, like what what what what what's the teaching like since you do some education?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think a lot of our teachings are based on the Divine Principle, which is kind of like our scripture that we focus on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's different chapters, but chapter one is called Principle of Creation.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it teaches a lot about God and how God is reflected in what he created.

[SPEAKER_01]: about God through nature, through other people, and feeling God through those things.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I've given lectures, but it's very dumb down, because there were kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, other than that, I think I try to focus on like character development, just like I think our role as youth pastors, or just just like older brothers and sisters, I think our role isn't necessarily to directly protect them.

[SPEAKER_01]: But to like equip them with resources so they can like protect I don't know if protect is the right word It's not like they're fighting like they're fighting wars out here, but sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the world can be like a very Mean place yeah, so like equipping them with knowledge And kind of the resources for them to like develop a life of faith so they have like a Center that they can ground themselves on so they can

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, like kind of, um,

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess, yeah, protect themselves, as I said.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, instead of us having to directly just always like, yeah, be their defender.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you don't just want to like shelter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to quit them with tools that they can use when they deal with difficult situations.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're going to see it some way, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when I do, when I do youth ministry, I focus a lot on I want to provide a place where kids are free to say things that maybe they don't feel like they can say anywhere else.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be like a safe adult, that's one thing that's big too, because a safe adult who it's very clear that like I care for the kids, that's my biggest thing because I don't think these kids often get attention or care in other places, whether that's school, whether that's the home, whether that's in like adult church, right, when they're in quotes,

[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever that is, I want youth group to be a place where you feel free to say what you need to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: If that's asking difficult questions or if that's even like revealing that something's going on at home, that needs to be dealt with.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want that to be this to be a safe place for that, and I want them to know that I care about you, and I actually want to hear what you have to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll listen to your like.

[SPEAKER_00]: whatever your crazy stories are, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you want to talk to me about video games for 15 minutes, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And because your parents won't listen to you when talking about video games, I will be that adult, that will do that for you, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But then we're also going to have a conversation about Jesus at some point.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to say like, okay, what is here's something Jesus said, what is it that, what does this mean for your life?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're trying to tie in like their interests with Jesus and God, yeah, like wow, like I didn't know that like I don't know like play video games and feel Jesus right right exactly Yeah, I think it's very important though like like I think as youth pastor your role kind of is to like like These kids sometimes maybe don't have the best relationship with their parents or like the age gap kind of

[SPEAKER_01]: makes it harder for them to talk about certain things, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as youth pass you're like you kind of bridge that gap, like you're out of an age where you can still kind of relate to them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we're pushing it, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yeah, like you're still like young enough where you can kind of understand where they're coming from, more than maybe their parents.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so they feel safe sharing certain things that maybe they can't share with their parents.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting because I definitely grew up.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I like I said I was like a nerd.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like this fat nerd Growing up for like forever, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like like like inside had my growth spirit pretty much which was late.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was like high school Oh, yeah, so I was like this very like short fat nerd.

[SPEAKER_00]: Great growing up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like the furthest thing from cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could possibly be

[SPEAKER_00]: Growing up, like I sat at the nerd table, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: But as a youth leader, it's interesting, you do have like a cool factor.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not something that I'm trying to do at all, like I'm still like lame.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like part of that I think is that the culture is shifted to where like nerds are kind of cool now Like growing up like for the stuff that I used to get bullied for growing up.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's cool I'm like what do you like Pokemon like you get like I used to get like beat up for you know Likeing stuff like that so

[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it's interesting that that is shifted.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's become like a tool in the arsenal, you know, because in a sense, like because I like these things that some teenagers are into, you can relate to them more.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like such a bridge.

[SPEAKER_00]: It really is, so that's pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we still like, we also like, try to get the kids active.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, on my youth, right now is middle schoolers, and it's like, they have so much energy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, we have to do something to get the kids active.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if it's even close to nice outside, we're like, right outside, we're playing sports.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, doing some sports of some kind, like creating some game that somehow makes them run around.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that's interesting, like, after COVID, like, like, these kids are different.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, yeah, they're more like introverted.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, like, I really got a pry into their, like, soul to, like, get answers out of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of anxiety to, like, I mean, I think anxiety was increasing beforehand, but especially locking it down, isolating kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just, like, so much anxiety, like, every kid that I know has, like, anxiety about stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because, because, yeah, they were just looking at a screen that was their school.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they had no social interaction.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they have

[SPEAKER_01]: Like interact with other people right here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here's something interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: So my my church is pretty small right.

[SPEAKER_00]: We got like They usually like 60 to 70 on a Sunday like it's pretty okay, right so my youth group right now has like 4 to 5 six kids like in that region so less in 10 usually.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that so different either really max 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So every single Student in my youth ministry right now is homeschooled

[SPEAKER_02]: No way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's like a new thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's never in the case.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah So that's like a weird thing too because they're not interacting with other humans for the whole day Oh, yeah, and the company you administer and that's like there.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's their social interaction.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah So that's like an interesting thing too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, not my kids are homeschooled, so

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's also like, like, under I think, yeah, there's a lot of advantages, I think, to have in a smaller youth group though, because you can really develop a relationship with each and every one of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think in that way, you can carry your education or your activities to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, like, like, during my education, like, we like having discussions, like trying to get them to like, or like ask them questions that are like, provoke their thoughts and like, have their own opinions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right and I think like but understanding these kids like knowing like who's introverted who's not It's like I got to separate them so like like or else like the extraverted kid is like Yapping like the whole time and introverted kid just kind of there listening

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I try to get like the them to read the passages scripture too.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a big thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, okay, we'll have like three or four like short verses that will read through the conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And right now I have a curriculum.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it makes it easier to do this because the curriculum has like a main verse and then it has like two verses at the end that they want you to read when you read it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, okay, I'll get, you know, you're gonna read this one, you're gonna read that one, you're gonna read this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you get like half the group, at least reading.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and I like it when the kids that don't contribute to the conversation very much, I make them read.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, okay, maybe you don't feel comfortable like sharing, but your voice is still being heard because you're gonna read the, the, the, that's great, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: So,

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like all these little tricks, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: To like, it gets to come out of their shell a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you, you have that too, but yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think a lot of my kids now, I've had them for like a few years.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they've opened up a lot more, but in the beginning, it was rough, yeah, especially when it was like, like right after COVID, yeah, definitely, definitely.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we had a youth group going into COVID, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The first year of COVID, we did a graduation service in the parking lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, did your church do this during COVID?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you did the parking lot services?

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: We did parking lot services.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we would have people that drive up.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had one of those FM transmitters.

[SPEAKER_00]: We saw your in your car.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're in your car.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're in your car.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is crazy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I actively had COVID during this.

[SPEAKER_00]: You were there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at the back of my church, it's like, uh, there's a little parking lot in the back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's like a grassy area.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they're the back where the back doors, there's like the handicap parking spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when we were doing parking lot services, we put like a tent where that was.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had people like park in the parking lot to where they could kind of see us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they would, and then some people would like come out of their cars and like have like the,

[SPEAKER_00]: like the beach seats and they would put those like in the parking spot and they did that, but then some people if you were like more concerned about COVID, you would stain your car and you would just tune in here, you would just tune into the station, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we were doing that for a little while and we were also streaming to Facebook anyway because we streamed to Facebook or services.

[SPEAKER_00]: So people like we're really, I just want to stay home, they could do it on Facebook.

[SPEAKER_00]: The kids that graduated that year, they

[SPEAKER_00]: We wanted to do something for them, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because we felt like they were losing out, because they were last year at school, like they had to stay home.

[SPEAKER_00]: At the time, I had like a dozen kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: And most of them were not home schooled.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it was like, most of them were really like, it was a hard thing for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we jumped into this service.

[SPEAKER_00]: I actively had COVID.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I was on the grassy.

[SPEAKER_00]: We called it like the low grassy nose.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I was in the grass and I had a speaker that was like just bump into the parking lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, nobody can come inside of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: grass area and somebody tried I was like no you have to stay over there because I'm actively sick right now You know, and and I was okay like I didn't hit me that hard that time so So I did that and I think like maybe seven or eight of the kids came in and we did like the other youth Like I usually have like a little team that I work with and they had like cards and they were fine And they like messed up whatever and headed in the cards

[SPEAKER_00]: But I remember like the distinct feeling of like we have to do something to like make it special for them because I felt like they were really missing out, but yeah, so we graduated out like 10 people that that year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like my whole group was just gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, we're like, yeah, it was literally gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we had like one or two and then coming out of COVID, we didn't even have youth group at all because we were like, there's nobody in the church that is this age group.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we started the kind of praying for we need we need some families with like this age kids and um,

[SPEAKER_00]: try to get it in and then we started I would say about like two years ago we restarted it with with a small like a handful of kids and half of them don't and this has always been true for my youth group and I'm curious to see if it is for years as well half of my kids don't go to my church oh like there's a lot of there's a lot of like parents like the whole family doesn't go yeah oh wow like I only know their teenagers like I also think they're kids it just in their

[SPEAKER_00]: Friends of the kids that are in the group or it's other churches that don't have a youth for them to send their their kids to me so I don't know is that is that true for you or pretty much all years like yeah all my kids like the parents are pretty faithful and that's why these they send their kids to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think they want to come or I want to think they want to go but of course yeah yeah it's not like that yeah

[SPEAKER_00]: interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been like a weird dynamic for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of cool because in one sense, sometimes I have kids that their parents don't go to church at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so they're kind of new to faith in some way.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then the other thing is like, okay, you're going to another church on Sundays.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: How are they teaching?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, what are you getting everywhere?

[SPEAKER_00]: what do you think what's like the importance of youth ministry like what would you say we need to really be thinking about if i think i know other people that are listening at least a couple of them are also in youth ministry like what what's some of the like advice what we need to be thinking about with these kids in particular today what do you need to make sure is included i think one thing

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'm directly involved too, but it's like nowadays there's so much like so much you could get access to so much information like social media yeah and I think a lot of it is like bad information right and I think I'm older and I definitely when I grew up it wasn't like that you're like um so I think

[SPEAKER_01]: Like one direct like problem I think is like porn yeah it's probably one of the

[SPEAKER_01]: biggest worries, I have for these kids because I would talk to them sometimes and they would like sometimes like being these snapchat group chats and then like casually like their chats would have like some like only fans video or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, whoa, like these kids are like still in middle school like and they're exposed to this stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so like I'm still trying to like, I guess like,

[SPEAKER_01]: learn how to navigate through that because I was I didn't grow up in that kind of environment like it was yeah like we kind of had to work for it and yeah yeah yeah yeah but for these kids just like just through like scrolling and I think I think yeah these people who make these these apps know like they call them like like I guess like

[SPEAKER_01]: good or content.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you know that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do know that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think they push it because they know like it's like yeah, it gets clicks and like people get addicted to it But when these kids get it and they don't understand like what they're looking at or like they didn't have like the proper like guidance for it Yeah, I think it can be a really like

[SPEAKER_01]: negative impact on them.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's important that we are the, not us, in particular, I think parents should be involved too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, because I think, yeah, you can't just talk about it without, like, the parents knowing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think us being the ones who teach them about it instead of them learning about it from, like, their peers or, like, social media in general, because I think, sure, they can learn about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: and consume it in a very negative way or it's never positive, but it's like, they don't know that it's negative.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they think it's normal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's like not on, maybe on normalizing things or saying like, hey, there are there is stuff that again, it is normal, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But,

[SPEAKER_00]: like the alert calls us to not be normal, right, but no, that that's that's very true.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember having a lot of conversations with people about Instagram and we've even moved past that now, like now it's just yeah, but I remember Instagram accounts being a thing that like I would talk about a lot because there's a lot of Instagram accounts where it's like, you know, that that kind of content and that's all that is put out on the Instagram accounts and you get

[SPEAKER_00]: Like people literally will make the Instagram accounts with that content on it, grow it to a certain place and then sell it to a business because that's the kind of thing that will get you a bunch of followers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they'll take all that down and they'll promote their business on the account.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and there was so much of that and I just remember being like, hey, like, you know, there's some unfollows, like you gotta, there's some stuff on your Instagram that you're following it, like you just got unfollowed, you know, there's a lot of that, there's a lot of that going, sometimes making like challenges, I guess.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what you're doing accountable.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember having that conversation about discord servers, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was another thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not so.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've heard a lot of story, but I've never heard.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, really, I'm not too big of a discord guy, so.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, discord is different because you do kind of have to go looking for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got to be invited to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's not, but it is like, there's a lot of kids, especially if your kids are like into video games.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, you can get weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of discord servers that's like, you just need to, like, there's a certain point where you just, you got to get out of there, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dangerous world out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It really is kids don't even have to leave their home to be true to be encounter with this I think that's one thing that parents don't realize because Like I think for a lot of parents they think okay the dangers are all like they're out there somewhere So yeah, yeah

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and like I said like my group is homeschooled, so it's like okay if you think like the danger is out in public school You keep your kids home from that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why they're homeschooled right because they're trying to That's coming a certain way.

[SPEAKER_00]: A level it depends it depends on it's different from kitty kid But but yeah that might be some of it a lot of people get homeschooled because they have some kind of learning Challenges that feel about being met that's another thing too But but I think the Christian subculture of homeschooling is mostly like the public school is out to like corrupt your kids

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like, it's a little conspiratorial, like, it's one of those things, but, but yeah, it is, like, okay, if you think, like, public school is the only place where you're dancing and you're exposed to stuff, like, you got another thing coming.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that hard for them to find.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very different nowadays.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is it is kids get like a I think am I falling on till I was in like high school Yes, I fones that like like 12 or 10 or like nine right these iPads kids to yeah Yeah, I mean we yeah, I mean we didn't have smart phones until I was in yeah Like late high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's when like the commercial like I remember when the first Samsung came out Oh, yeah I had like a phone, you know like can't even do anything with it I didn't even watch a video Yeah, you could dial up the Sonic game

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I'm like Motorola Razor, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's like a Sonic game you could dial up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was... I had pod shuffle, I had to download videos.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's dangerous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, that was, yeah, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that is huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we think, like, I think safety is a big issue for me and youth groups, like, providing a place where kids can, like, feel safe enough to share that stuff with the two.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they might not tell their parents like if they saw something.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, like my parents never gave me the talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, it's like a combination of like Christian conservative as a Christian and also being Asian.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, it's like double, double conservative, I guess.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but so I had to just like learn it on my own.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of my understanding about the subject came from, you know, youth ministry and just having older brothers who, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, taught me what's wrong, what's right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's also like part of being safe though is also like, okay, we got to talk, let's talk about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's create a space where it's okay for you to come to me with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then also let's realize that I don't want to guilt trip you either.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I want, I want you to understand like, yeah, there's some stuff like looking at stuff on Instagram, even if it's not even straight porn, you know, like looking at some account, you follow it just because it's some girl that posts like bikini pics all the time,

[SPEAKER_00]: but it's like, but also you shouldn't be following that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, what is your intention, like, what do you gain?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, so yes, that's bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you are doing that, I'm also not going to like, cram a tangerthroat and shame you for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But let's talk, like, what should we be doing as like, we, you know, we're trying to love Jesus here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that something that people that love Jesus should be doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, can I get you to set on follow that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, I'm not going to make you feel bad because you have.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a really interesting balance.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as a guy, like, it's very rare that you haven't watched porn or masturbated.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you've definitely experienced at some point.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think like, in that sense, I think like sharing about your story to them, makes them feel like, oh, like,

[SPEAKER_01]: We've all been there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hopefully they don't look down on you for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a, it's a good, like a, a line.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there's a lot, a lot of thought that goes into like, what kind of atmosphere are we making?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's, and that seems to be like the primary, whenever I'm talking to like right now, I have another a lady that works in the youth group with me, whenever we have conversations, it's like, okay, what's the atmosphere that we're trying to,

[SPEAKER_01]: try to create here so what do you have do you have like helpers that that helped you to I have I have a team of maybe like three four cool um so that's another thing for you to mention that like been learning

[SPEAKER_01]: to do is like, like, my personality is like, I try to just do everything on my own, like, because there's less risk of like error, because I'm in control.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but that's like, I'm like two authoritarian.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, I think as a leader, like your job is also to raise leaders.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been working on like giving more responsibility to my staff.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like letting them give education or like letting them like run a program.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I'm not going to be doing this forever.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I know some of the staff, they're interested in potentially like in the future.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, becoming faster.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's another thing I got to keep in mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: You had to develop a team.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, raise them and I think one big not one problem we have with already the mysteries a lot of word participants or girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we don't have like a consistent girl like staff.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's a lot of like content as a guy like I can't teach them or like I can't guide them on certain things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's like a big problem with our industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, hunt down a female leader.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got to find a wife, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, that could be it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That could be it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there also might be, somebody in your church are ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I have all of a same, I'm totally with you on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've always tried to have at least.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you need, you need both, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is, it's important.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have, I've been, I've been, I have the opposite problem, actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think every single helper that I've had for youth group, and I've been, I've been, I'm like, the full-time staff that stretches for eight years now, and it's like, every single one has been a woman.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, which I didn't even realize until I started talking to the scientists.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, every single one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, I kind of the opposite.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I need, that's, I need some guys in there.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, I think it's just my own thinking, but I think like, youth ministry should be done.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like as a duo like guy and girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, I agree because I think these kids need like I think as a special like a role model Yeah, and there's only so much you can do is like a person of the opposite gender.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they can't yeah, they can't talk about everything with you

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and even the way that you treat, like I think one thing that people need to learn is, okay, how do I treat people of the opposite sex as well is a really big thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good conversation topic too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I think growing up for our church, it was like avoidance was the answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you just don't talk to women and then you grow up and then the church is like, oh, like it's having a married.

[SPEAKER_01]: right and then it's like you got all these like awkward dudes that's never like talked to a woman in the life all of a sudden like have to like get married and have a whole relationship it's like right this this is not how it works yeah no it is it's absolutely not how it works yeah but even just modeling that if you have like females that are working on your on your team it's like okay our

[SPEAKER_00]: conversations and the way it like it's an opportunity to be a role model and how do you like treat women and then and then also So I have noticed and I try to say this a lot from the pulpit because I get the opportunity to speak to our church every week So I lead the music so I always have that but then I also like I preach fairly frequently at the church too and I'm always trying to say like hey

[SPEAKER_00]: adults have a conversation with teenagers.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have our teenagers are in our regular sudden new gathering.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it was like talk to them because adults like don't know how to talk to teens and that's even more true.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think especially with adult guys talking to teenage women.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because even just saying that out loud sounds almost like kind of taboo, you know what I mean like it sounds like it sounds like it's like that's weird But it's at the same time it's like, okay, well, I can model because I've created an environment of safety When there's a teenage woman in my in my youth group, it's like, okay, the way that I speak with them That's the bar for how they should expect other men speak of them too, you know, and so there's there's it's like a witty task

[SPEAKER_00]: That's wild, man.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of preconceived notions, sort of just cultural norms, I guess.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like things you shouldn't do, it's weird, but it's because it's not done healthily.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're a family.

[SPEAKER_00]: We should be able to interact with each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which one of them came down like that, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who's up to us?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The change that I think in the organization of the church as a whole, the youth leaders responsibility is to spearhead that and be that change and the model and the role model for the adults when dealing with teenagers, but also for the teenagers when dealing with adults.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, yeah, I definitely like like during service, I tried to like talk to the kids parents.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, without communicating with their parents, it's like, it's like, you should be working as a team to like help them grow, you know, like, like, because as youth pass, you're like, you're not spending not like nearly as much time as their parents are of course.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, hopefully, yeah, you're just kind of like assisting them instead of just like taking on the responsibility for yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think sometimes it's hard because I feel like some parents expect like me to be like the educator and they're just kind of there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it's like like what you do at home is probably more impactful than like what I'll do in my three hours on Saturday.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a really good point.

[SPEAKER_00]: The parent youth leader relationship is a weird one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could be difficult to navigate sometimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also vital, like I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to hear that you're like thinking through that conversation, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: It helps cause I can speak Japanese and all of them are Japanese.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so if I could speak Japanese, might be a little rough.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty neat.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you bring a very particular skill set to your ministry, then?

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess so.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because my pastor is not Japanese.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: My pastor is, uh,

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what she is.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's white, though.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some kind of white.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually really cool, then.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are there any other people that are on staff at the church there?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it just you and the pastor?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's definitely a lot of other staff.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's like a whole council, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I don't I don't go to those council meetings actually.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I'm not so sure, but there's like a whole team cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like a counten and like people who like a witnessing team and stuff, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, neat neat.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I've kind of a unique question to ask you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were having a conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to shift gears a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're having a conversation right before we started recording.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I'm going to phrase a question this way, because I would definitely consider us friends to some degree, but we haven't had a ton of conversations.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you're sort of like vaguely aware of me and what I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have this idea of like Unison is like my tag word.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of like my brand, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Unison.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you're, y'all, you're like 4K.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's one of them, yep, that's one of my expertise books I would say, though I think we all have much more to learn about the book, but okay, so when you hear about like unison church, right, what are your impressions of that?

[SPEAKER_00]: And we start talking like a little bit of theology like beforehand to like what do you think of like what is your impression of that and what do you think I believe based on that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I think, well, I listen to a little bit of your podcast, um, and the book of Jonah is about, uh, race, yeah, I think so, I think so, yeah, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think you listen to it, you're just, like, you're not, you're niting as a diverse group, sure, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're niting all people different backgrounds, yeah, some to God, some to Jesus, because at the end of the day, we're all children of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, talking like theology, specifically like I wonder, I wonder, like where on the spectrum.

[SPEAKER_00]: You think I might land.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it interesting?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I've never had the opportunity to like ask somebody.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you are a pastor.

[SPEAKER_00]: True.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you gotta be like, if it's like one to 10, you gotta be above like a, you gotta be like an 8.5 maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what is like one in 10?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like one is like your an 8th or zero is like your an 8th, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like five is like,

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe not five.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe like six, seven is like your 10 church every Sunday.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and then 10 is like, well, actually, we, I don't know, 10 is like Jesus, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, maybe 8.5 is a little too close.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like seven, eight, eight, 7.5?

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like somewhat like jealous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because like, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like percentage wise I would say like you're probably like top 1% in the world for like advocating for Jesus because you're out here Like you have a podcast and like you're trying to like teach these people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: What Jesus and like what's wrong like teach people the book of Jonah Just like just make the world a better place in general.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think That's rare Yeah, I think a lot of people just kind of like live their own lives, you know because it's easier to do true

[SPEAKER_01]: On that spectrum, you'd be 9.9, but... Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I have been this podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: So most podcasts experience something called Podfade around like seven episodes like seven or eight.

[SPEAKER_00]: So most podcasts out there are like seven or eight episodes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're done kind of thing like people kind of give it up or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Especially because the...

[SPEAKER_00]: Some people have, like, misconceptions about podcasts that, like, you can make a podcast and then, like, suddenly, like, be making money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, like, so not how far past it works.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so people get into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, what?

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're, like, nobody's listening to my podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was so to eight.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it was like, by a time for pretty kind of, to, like, to episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's just, like, not the way it works, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, so I've made, this is going to be, I think this is, like,

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm over, like, 35th, like, 35th market.

[SPEAKER_00]: With the both of them, with no, with just use in church as it's own.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and that's, I've just been doing it for, you know, I'm not putting out that many episodes, like it's like one a month, but I've been doing it for several years now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm starting to appear on lists, and mostly these lists are made because they want your money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they want, like, not yours.

[SPEAKER_00]: They want my money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, well, we'll curate this list and then we'll send it out to these people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like, you're out every time for you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, you're sick, buddy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So most of them, so like, I'm not, it's not anything grandiose or anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm starting to appear a lot on, um,

[SPEAKER_00]: top like 50 or top 100 lists for progressive Christian podcasts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, progressive progressive Christian podcasts, which is really interesting because I wouldn't consider myself a progressive Christian, just because I still, like usually when we think progressive Christianity, it tends to be, there's some measure of universalism in that, like that,

[SPEAKER_00]: that sort of, I don't know, there's not like a strong, like you mentioned, like your church is like a witnessing team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like usually in press for shanning, it's not necessarily like a strong poll.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like try to like convert people into like Christianity, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's like a big thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a couple of other things.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would consider myself to be progressive, though, in the context of my background.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, compared to what you were.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I consider myself progressive in that sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what I found is that the term unison carries.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?

[SPEAKER_00]: It carries a connotation in the church world.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's sure that I wasn't even aware of.

[SPEAKER_01]: What is it?

[SPEAKER_00]: The connotation is like, like, the concept of universalism, that like, every faith, like, ultimately, like, Oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Become one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, so that is like a big,

[SPEAKER_00]: Connotation I guess that people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's progressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I think it sounds great Yeah, yeah, it's so it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I keep appearing on those so I haven't like I but I that's not necessarily where I'm at like I think open-mindedness is like really important right and so and diversity I also think is really important and actually like intrinsic to the gospel

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I think like I phrase at the other day and it's certainly that the gospel is Jesus is a new king who brings a new kingdom And everyone is belongs in that kingdom and the lines that we create of us and thems are done away with and And so So I think that's the gospel, but I still think you have to believe the gospel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to be part of that kingdom

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, so it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like an interesting phenomenon that I'm going through right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel I'm happy that like the podcast is appearing on those lists, but I'm also afraid that people will listen to the podcast and then be like very caught off guard.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not progressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so that's an interesting thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I was curious of maybe you got that vibe as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess maybe I'm not too old-versed in the terminology.

[SPEAKER_01]: Progressive, Christianity, we're not right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, with those mega churches, be considered progressive.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the ones where the pastor shows up and he's like flexing his like $300,000 a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, if you look at your broke like you can't be Christian or something right right I think sometimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay that kind of like prosperity gospel.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah Can definitely be progressive I think so too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Capitalism Christianity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mostly has like universalistic stuff universalism meaning that like All this one everybody's gonna end up with Jesus somehow So it doesn't

[SPEAKER_00]: like it matters like what you believe, but like it also ultimately doesn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some nuance, like there's some nuance, obviously.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there are actual theological cases for universalism, but but there's also like

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, progressive Christianity generally has to do with how a treat, how it treats like where everybody ends up eventually.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I see.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're clarifying that, like your podcast is not advocating necessarily for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not necessarily.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not necessarily, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm happy to have those conversations with people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm afraid that maybe people will show up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Listen to the podcast and be like bad review.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wait a second.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly Reviewing this guy isn't regressive

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, right, right, I don't know, I don't know, it's weird, it's weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure, like the perceptions that people have, I mean, it doesn't, I don't know once it doesn't matter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, then in the other sense, I'm also like very averse to a bait and switch, I don't want people to like come in and I'd be like, this isn't what I thought maybe maybe like they'll come and then you'll be able to like, you know, give them a new perspective, which is what you want to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a good point.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is a good point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Long as they don't bash your podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hopefully there are.

[SPEAKER_01]: These listeners are open-minded.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Open-mindedness isn't where it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: What would you say like in your church, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So what is like open-mindedness mean for your like congregation?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I do think there's there's something about something to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Open-mindedness.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, that's, that's a tough topic, I think, because a lot of my church is pretty conservative, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but being open-minded, I think, is willing to, like, like, change in a certain way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, keep the core principles and the truth.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like, with the times, I think, certain things change.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think being able to, like, adapt in a certain way,

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm always like quoting the book of James when he says like he's slow to speak quick to listen soda anger As like that's that's kind of what opened mindness is like you don't have to agree to be open-minded Right you just have to be able to listen Which is really hard for people

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like when you think of like conservative Christian people, it's like if they don't have it their way, it's over.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, literally.

[SPEAKER_00]: Literally over, literally over.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like world is that a thing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, the world has to be ending and everybody has to be going to hell somehow.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, yeah, that's definitely not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely not my vibe, for sure, for sure, but but at the same time, I'm like, okay, well, Jesus is still kind of the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, he's kind of he's kind of what he says, you know, like he is the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let me introduce you to Jesus, but I'm also not going to like yell at you about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because he wouldn't do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was chilling with the prostitutes and the, was it the tack, the tax collection.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tax collectors, because no one liked them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was actually pretty angry not at the people out.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was considered the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, but he was pretty angry at the insides, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like bulls.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because they should know that you should know better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not as they don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, our church is teaching through Mark right now and so we're doing a lot like just listen to Jesus a lot we've been to the whole year so far It's been in Mark and we we plotted it out so that like we're gonna

[SPEAKER_00]: Sort of get through Mark by the end of the year there's actually like stuff that we haven't talked about so I'm probably won't like because it's that been that like in depth on Mark Okay, but yeah, just listening to a lot of like Jesus interacting with all these different people and he was like not concerned with these divisions that they had

[SPEAKER_00]: Among themselves and a lot of it a lot of it had to do with the jujantile distinction Which was kind of like a racial Yeah, yeah, it was more prejudicial than it was racial But this very severe prejudice in the first century, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And Jesus is just like, no everybody Everybody should have equal access to to me and to the truth

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we say a lot like see the world and like Jesus eyes are like not eyes and it's like so hard to do I think yeah Yeah, because I think I'm theory it's so easy to read scripture and like understand it on like a like a logical level right like oh like this How a shack this is the correct way to go about life, but then like

[SPEAKER_01]: a situation arises in your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, oh, shoot, like, I'm hotheaded.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why am I like this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think of, like I said, that passage in James where it's like so to speak, quick to listen, slow to wrath.

[SPEAKER_00]: The world, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever that is, the world, the normal way that people kind of do is the exact opposite of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to hear it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to cram my opinion down your throat.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to be angry about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and so trying to resist that live differently and then even cultivate that our church communities.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a big thing for there are moment right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's something that the church needs to do here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like a lot of difference, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we achieve that through diversity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're like, like, I have my other podcasts and new diversity podcasts.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's about like just celebrating people's own like individual diversity.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think like the church is a place like you have been mentioned in your church that like your pastor's white, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the rest of the community, I would imagine there's some level of diversity there too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I find that that is like a fertile ground for learning how to be open minded and loving towards people are different.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like the founder for our church, he really believed in like international marriages to be like a key component of world peace.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he would, he like the way he like, he would, he would give marriage, like marriages, or he would match people to get married and blessed, which is like our church's belief, like being blessed is different from being married because being blessed is like a marriage under God, like it's like an oath.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's important like having gotten in marriage.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so he believes like by marrying people from different countries Of course, like there's a lot of conflict and a lot of difficulty that comes with it But by overcoming it like you become like a completely different person and then the kid also grows up in two different cultures And that becomes like their normal

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think in a way it helps them be more aware of, I guess, like being multicultural and like being accepting of different kinds of people because they themselves are mixed right yeah like a big thing he did was it's kind of like thinking about it no it was kind of insane but he married he married a lot of

[SPEAKER_01]: Korean people with Japanese people, and they do not like, you don't do that because of the World War II there's a lot of history, like bad history, like the Japanese like my ancestors were horrible people and they they tormented the Korean people, but he thought through these marriages

[SPEAKER_01]: And like having families and having a like, I think the deal like when you can marry and have a kid like you forget about all this yeah these not forget but like you kind of get to focus on what's important which is like the next generation and just like yeah like focusing on the kid and just that's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's really interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: See, our church, we've become like really, we've become really honed in on this concept of the table.

[SPEAKER_00]: So once a month we have a meal after church.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of churches do this, but

[SPEAKER_00]: It was birthed out of this concern that I had for communion in the Lord's Supper and talking about like, hey, how was this actually done in the first century?

[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the revolutionary thing about the Lord Supper in the first century was that it was a meal that people sat around.

[SPEAKER_00]: And on one end of the table you'd have a Gentile and the other end you'd have a Jew, or hopefully they'd be next to each other, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But you would also have a wealthy person who's home you were eating in, but like their slaves would be their eating too, which was on herd of in the first century.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you might have like a tax collector, or you might have like even in Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: at the literal Lord supper, right, that Passover celebration he's got his 12 apostles.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of them is a zealot, which is basically like an anarchist, like anti-Rome.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of them is a tax collector who's literally a member of the government, right, eating at the same table.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like, that's crazy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, all these areas of diversity coming together where

[SPEAKER_00]: The table sharing like a meal with one another sharing your communion with one another is an opportunity where we can break down those walls You know and that That in itself being church Right like we still have like you come to the building like even on the days like this Sunday is a table where it's always the last Sunday of each month

[SPEAKER_00]: So you still come to church and like we sing songs and there's a sermon.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then at the end we go and we have to and and theologically in our church, what's happening around that table, quote unquote after the service, is as much church as what happens during the service, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, but that's an area where just myself, you know, as

[SPEAKER_00]: My cultural background is actually more complicated than just, but, but in today's world, we just call white people our community, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So just for the simplification of that, and if I just didn't episode of my new university podcast about this, but, but for simplification, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm like a white guy, I'll walk in and like a couple tables and go, I sat at a table with like a, there was like somebody from Puerto Rico, and there was a bunch of Jamaicans and we were playing Domino's.

[SPEAKER_00]: which apparently is a huge thing in Caribbean and so I learned Domino's like Caribbean style.

[SPEAKER_00]: When I was at it and I was like this is this is the church playing Domino's and having fun and the Jamaican accents are coming out and we're learning about each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're that's that's the church right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean and so so I love that so

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we can cultivate like cross cultural ministry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even like marriage being one of those ministries, right, according to scripture, like our marriage is our ministries.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is a huge thing of the church to be about, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm just thinking about it like.

[SPEAKER_01]: They say like if you go down the line like a thousand years, like racism won't exist because everyone's just mixed That would be awesome That would be great Multicultural just like everyone people say Everyone will look the same which maybe you don't know if people will be excited about that, but

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I don't know because because people that are like buy racial like don't all look That's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, but I think like down the line when you're like like 8% everything Yeah, maybe it's gonna take a while though.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think but

[SPEAKER_01]: possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's still a lot of countries that are pretty monoethic now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but I think even in America like we you know, we're living in New England, which is like Hyper diverse yeah, yeah, and even parts in New England like I could imagine even like certain towns and in Connecticut Taking longer than others.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah, right the more real areas.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah

[SPEAKER_00]: But like in, like I went to college in Ohio in the Midwest and it's like, okay, that's different.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the story, you know what I mean, or even in Texas.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like Texas has my father's from Texas, so my family's out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Texas is really interesting because it is different.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's getting more, yeah, it is pretty diverse.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it is a different kind of diverse.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have like like communities?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, yes, but also there's a lot of white people.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of Mexican people and there's a lot of Asian people.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's not a lot of other people groups.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, yeah, there's like a certain hub.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or even like Florida, like Florida, there's a lot of white people.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of Cuban people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there may not be a lot of other groups of people, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Connecticut is interesting too.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a lot of European people here.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of Eastern European people here that may not exist in other places.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still like kind of pockets where it's like, yes, it's diverse, but it's different kinds of diversity.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not quite melted yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not quite melted yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think maybe we'll still maintain some kind of distinction.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if we could get to a place where there's peace between everybody, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That'd be sick.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm down.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not hopeful that that's going to happen until the kingdom.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't mean that we can't have that in our churches.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of like my big.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're trying to create that.

[SPEAKER_00]: In my church, we need to embody this future kingdom where Jesus is going to bring peace.

[SPEAKER_00]: but right now in my church that this is, we should look as much like that as we can now, even if the culture at large doesn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the idea of what like unison is all about.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think when I lived in Jersey, our pastor was Indian, which is like very rare.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a region in India where they do practice Christianity, but for the most parts Hindu.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: What our pastor was Indian, and I think the best sermon I've ever heard was from him.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was talking about, well he wasn't even actually talking about diversity, but I think when he was talking about plants a lot of things, like he was talking about curry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because he's Indian, you're saying how good curry can't be made with just one spice, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you need a ton of spices.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't just have masala and call it curry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you need turmeric, you need um, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You need peppers and you need all these other spices.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, this is how everything or life, this is how life works.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you need a balance of everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when it like things fall into place and like things function.

[SPEAKER_01]: And at the time he was talking about like,

[SPEAKER_01]: life in general like like your life should be like curry like you can't just like be good at work and then be considered great and like when you die like people aren't going to be like oh he was good at work like to be like to be like a well-functioning human being you need to have a balance like you need to be like you need to be consisting of like faith at work family he was talking about that but I think it applies to diversity too yeah yeah to have good curry you need

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty happy to be able to grace you all the spice to you all the spice.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love that man Now this has been really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for your time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love I love talking shop with with other people that are doing Ministries.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a weird thing to do like oh yeah, yeah, especially youth even above and beyond the other Ministries.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so it's such a weird

[SPEAKER_01]: Pursuit, you know, I mean, but but it is fun and you also like people who do it like you kind of do it because you like it like you don't Yeah, like I yeah like if I if I if I didn't like doing it, I would not be doing it like fair.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would have quit a long time ago I think that's fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: I

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I never actually wanted to be doing youth ministry.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be too.

[SPEAKER_00]: My last my last my last podcast with somebody who actually grew up in my youth ministry.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had a conversation and I mentioned him like I didn't want to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like I went to college and I ended up with this little church.

[SPEAKER_00]: that didn't have a youth ministry and they were like a 30-person church, but they had like five or six youth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, how do you not have a youth ministry when like a third of your church is a church?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, and I left, not expecting to do youth ministry, and I just felt like...

[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that I can can do and that I should do because nobody else is doing it here so then I got into it when I got hired at my church, then Youth became a piece of that because I had some experience in it and it was like, I never necessarily felt called specifically to this thing and even to this day, I'm not I'm not a youth pastor.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like a generic pastor my church.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but you do you think this is one of the several things that I do in church, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, it's like,

[SPEAKER_00]: It is a rewarding piece of the industry that, and I have grown to love and appreciate teenagers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you have that, as an adult, a love and appreciation for teenagers, because most adults don't have that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then that might be God's way of saying, you need to get involved in the youth, because most people won't do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you will do it, if you have a willingness, you should be doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cause no one else will.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, but it's so rewarding.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like when you see kids like make the connection.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you see kids grow up, like I have one person in my youth group.

[SPEAKER_00]: She, I've known her since she was like a baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, watching them grow as it's crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I would look at pictures.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd be like, wow, like they were babies.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now they're like graduating high school.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of nuts kind of nuts like the only time I cry during prayer is my prayer But my parents or about the kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's like like a you think she was like One I think if I wasn't doing you, I don't know if I'd have like a consistent life of faith honestly or like I'd be as Like religious as I am.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think

[SPEAKER_01]: I learned about God's love through loving these kids and being in the position of God.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was like, I remember one profound experience I had was I was praying.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was at a workshop and I was praying for these kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, wow, I hope these kids can learn more about your love, can really feel the love that I get them and that you can work through me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember just crying, like, I just started crying.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I never cried before doing prayer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a realization, like, wow, like, if I, like, if me, like, an imperfect human being can love these kids so much, like imagine how much God loves me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, dang, like, like, he must love me so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that was like a huge moment for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's why I stole the youth ministry to this day because it connects me to God on such a deeper level.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: oh my gosh that is definitely that's the mic drop moment that was so good absolutely no i feel that and i love and i love that and i love that god is working in your life and not only is that good for you but it's good for the people at your ministry too and uh what a what a what a privilege that we have for sure yeah such a privilege to be in this position to give

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's truly, it's truly something that's very blessed, yeah, and that's huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that, there's other people out there that feel the same way, because I connect to that very deeply, so that's awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much for your time, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: This has been really fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope, I hope people will, I are enjoying it too.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that, like I said, I know that there's at least a couple of people that listen to this podcast that are in Youth Mystery, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope they also came away with something that's going to help them in their ministry from our conversation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hopefully.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah definitely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah thanks for having me.