Introducing Lent Episode 2 - With Andrew Killick

hey welcome to the second episode of our

introducing lent podcast where I sit

down for a conversation with Andrew

kilick you'll notice at one point we get

interrupted by an alarm and we chose to

leave this in because we actually feel

it adds value to the conversation so

here it is hope you enjoyed the

podcast hey Cura church family are so

excited to kick off our second podcast

introducing lent and today I'm joining

by none other than Andrew kilick who has

been a friend of mine for 20 years and

also has a uh history with our church

and currently uh I think sometimes

anyway watches online because uh he's

based north of ky ky where are you from

Andrew uh yeah just north of Ky Cassi at

a little in a little settlement called

orar Point um just up by Toro and coding

point if you're familiar with that area

so yeah loving the dream out there by

the water it's good very cool and uh

your family situation y just Anna and I

um and our little home yeah an has had

chronic fatigue for the duration of our

marriage so it's just us as a as a tight

unit um with a few health challenges and

stuff but yeah that's um it's been a

journey but but yeah it's been good as

well and in terms of work you're in the

publishing field do you want to share a

little bit about what you do yes um I've

been involved with publishing um since

coming out of University which is now uh

it'll be 25 years this year so time

flies um yeah I work for a company

called Castle publishing which is a we

specialize and and Publishing Christian

books so working alongside a lot of of

New Zealand Christian people and helping

them put their books together yeah very

cool well as I said Andrew is a good

friend but uh I wanted to bring him on

the podcast really uh because of uh some

of the richness and insight that he uh

does bring around contemplative

practices contemplative as I should say

um uh try and get the pronunciation

right um but wanted to bring them on and

really just discuss what are some other

things that we could add into our lint

journey and uh you know how can we make

this season really rich so it's not

simply just about giving something up

but it's actually a rich season of what

we're pursuing as well but before we get

into some of that do you maybe just want

to share how long have you been doing

lint what's kind of your experience of

doing lint Bean like and uh maybe a

little bit of your history there okay

yeah um I think I I think I've been

doing some sort of lint practice each

year for maybe about 10 years um it's

not something I grew up with I grew up

in um Presbyterian in a Presbyterian

church and we I wasn't aware of Lent

um over time I started to become a bit

more aware of it as I started sort of

started looking looking into church

history and different Church forms and

stuff a bit more um and then I started

um going to the church um where Joseph

mccol is the pastor St Luke's um Joseph

um being one of the other guys on this

little podcast series um and yeah he he

was encouraging his his church to give

it a go so I think I think that was

probably about 10 years ago

um

and yeah I I've done probably done

something different each year I haven't

got a set thing that I do every year and

for me like this is not necessarily in

the tradition of Lent but I tend to see

it as um sort of an opportunity to

experiment a little bit um experiment

with different um prayer

practices um and different Frameworks

and and

well sometimes they're called spiritual

disciplines that sort of thing um and

and use lint as a sort of an intentional

time of that sort of 40-day period of of

um yeah trying out some some different

things that might help me to flourish as

a person and and grow closer to God and

so what's been your experience over

those 10 years like uh is it have

sometimes been hard has sometimes been

an amazing season like what have kind of

been the varied experiences that you've

had yeah I mean I've I've always quite

enjoyed it I haven't done heaps of

things that were about self-denial right

um I haven't done you know massive fasts

or anything like that I've I've tended

to um to more focus on on prayer

exercises um one year for example I I

prayed the what's called The Daily

Office which is is you're praying four

times a day at set times and you're

you're praying particular prayers and

the prayers that you're you're praying

are being prayed by people all around

the world they're they're sort of part

of you know they they're established

prayers within the body of Christ and

and you and so for that you're praying

when you wake up um you're praying at

sort of around midday 12:30ish then

you're praying again at the end of the

working day so around 5:30 and then you

pray again before bedtime so there's

these these four set periods of prayer

and i s for that I simply um set a timer

on my cell phone um so so so that that's

a discipline and that's not necessarily

fun and easy um but it's not not quite

the same thing as you know fasting you

know during daylight hours or something

like that um and and you although that

has been a challenge at time my

experience of Lent has been has been

largely positive and I've found been

grateful for for trying out some of

those different things and and

experiencing experiencing what that

might be like yeah awesome and our third

podcast is actually with Kristen

Williams specifically about self-denial

so we uh will uh be uh digging into that

with him which is why brought you on to

maybe talk about what kind of things we

could uh add in and what are some ideas

of ways that we can um encounter Jesus

because we do believe self denial is an

important part of lint but it's not the

only part of lint right like it's not

just a season where if all we did was

give something up for 40 days and

literally that was our whole experience

well I went for 40 days without coffee

or Netflix or whatever um it's probably

not likely to be a profound time right

um it would simply be okay well that it

may or may not be but it probably

wouldn't be spiritually transforming

like perhaps um the invitation is and so

uh just Keen to explore what uh some of

those other things that we can

potentially add in during this season to

um to enrich our lent experience yeah I

I think um whether you're giving

something up or adding something in and

sometimes there's a crossover between

those things because when you give

something up you're often often creating

space with something else right so um

and in terms of just you know to talk a

bit more about the giving up thing

ultimately as I said anyway what and

giving something ultimately what you're

wanting to do is create space for god um

you know I mean to put it in sort of

more you know maybe more full-on

terms you might want to give up

something which has become an idol in

your life you know and that's quite a

full-on way of putting it but certain

things clutter our lives and so the idea

in giving them up is that you're

creating space for God but in creating

space you may find that you're you're

adding something so even at that level

sing up you might find that you're

actually receiving something because

you've opened up a space so you know for

example if if you if if so an additive

thing might depending on how you view

this this is either an additive thing or

a subtractive thing you might decide

that for the period of Lent you're going

to make sure you get earlier nights

right yes you're going to you're going

to get make sure you're in bed by 9:30

or something because you know that there

might be a little bit of dysfunction in

your life around that sort of thing and

so in a way that's giving something up

because that might mean you now can't

watch Netflix until 10:30 30 so that's

you're giving something up but you're

also feeding yourself because now you're

potentially sleeping in a more healthy

way and as you start to become more

healthy in that way then you'll begin

potentially begin to reap those

benefits yeah yeah I I for I I think

that that's there is overlap there and I

also think it's important no matter what

you're giving up or what you're

adding to bring God into that context so

it's not just about giving up coffee per

se it's about in giving up

coffee how's God involved with this what

what if I'm giving up coffee what does

this open me up to in terms of the way

God can function in my life so I think

no matter what people are

doing you know you begin to it's it's

ultimately hopefully going to be

encounter with God because you're

inviting him into whatever your practice

is for Lent you're wanting to have space

for God you're wanting God to be in that

Dynamic yeah I remember the first uh

lent practice that I did when I gave up

coffee and um I went to the cafe with

SAR and I ordered a cup of tea and they

gave really small tea cups that you had

to kind of hold and so I felt like Not

only was I missing my caffeine I was

also uh a bit of social stigma as my

wife was laughing at me at uh drinking

out of this uh you know with my finger

out drinking a cup of tea in a cafe and

so she enjoyed that anyway but I do like

what you're saying and sometimes I think

there can be something that is almost a

natural replacement or uh so for example

this year one of the things I'm going to

fast from is actually watching YouTube

now so I like watching NRL fantasy

videos on YouTube and and uh analysis of

the 2008 share market crash so I'm a

really interesting guy so I'm going to

uh you know put a pause on those and to

be honest if I was to say hey I'm going

to pause listening to those things and

I'm going to introduce 45 minutes

silence and Steed I would probably

really struggle to do that right like it

it it would be a uh maybe it's something

that I could benefit from but to go hey

any time that I'm spending on that I'm

going to place with silence would

probably set me up to fail and so one of

the things that I I've actually got

three audio books that I want to listen

to that are Christian audio books around

particular topics that I want to grow in

my walk with Jesus in and so I'm going

to replace the YouTube with listening to

some audio boxs and then as a new

practice I've been out of the habit of

having my silence so I then want to

integrate a bite-sized piece of Silence

into my day as well so part of the

removing YouTube is uh replacing it with

an alternative that will help me welome

my relationship with God and then a

small part of it is actually removing

noise from my life and creating a silent

space but I think if I was just to say

hey I'm going to remove this chunk and

try and replace it all with silence that

would probably mean I would really

struggle during the lint season and so

uh I've kind of um replacing with

something that I already do but I'm

going to do more of and then also

replace it with something that's new to

me and so I'm introducing that as a

bite-size um kind of Chunk I don't know

if that's if you kind of got any

thoughts around that or yeah I I I think

that sounds good um I mean on on the on

the books thing obviously I pick up at

that meeting I'm a big reader apart from

working in publishing I'm a big reader

and and my some years my um lent

practice has been reading specific books

so um for three length in a row I read

some fairly sizable books on the

crucifixion I wanted to know and and

reading about the crucifixion during

Lent that's appropriate because

ultimately the lent season is the big

buildup to to Easter right so um so

that's what I wanted to do there um but

yes also in terms of you know

not not not trying not trying to overdo

it um in terms of I I I think that the

the the scripture that comes to mind for

me is is where Jesus says

um man was not made for the Sabbath but

Sabbath for man yes you know that that

God is God is constantly inviting us

into um spaces of rest and and Jesus is

talking about come unto me all you who

are burdened and heavy laden I'll give

you rest um and he's talking about take

my yoke upon you he's not saying no yoke

but he's saying his yoke is is easy and

light and so we need to be challenged

especially in the western world that we

don't just take versus like that as an

excuse to slack off but most of us are

actually not slacking off and so um in

stepping into lent you don't want to add

a whole lot of burden to yourself that's

just going to make the whole thing you

know like a really yes press in yes put

yourself outside your comfort zone but

keep that balance of you know as you say

not setting yourself up to fail by

trying to cut everything and then do you

know 10 10 hours of prayer a day or

something like that so yeah I think I

think that's good you you kind of and

look during the 40 days if you find that

you know if you started out with say 5

minutes of science s during the 40 day

like it might be your intention to over

the 40 days slowly build that up you

know rather than just going in hard and

like a like going cold turkey yeah could

actually have have an intentionality to

to build so you know see how you going

and build on on things as you go that's

right and I like that idea of building

because uh particularly if you're giving

up something that's addictive the first

period will be the hardest and so if

you're also trying to put in something

um new that can be doubly hard for

example giving up coffee you know you're

experiencing headaches you're

experiencing withdrawal you know uh from

caffeine there's various genuine uh

things that you're experiencing and so

to build into a new practice is really

helpful because it means uh as my body

is now used to not having caffeine I can

increase some of those other practices

far easier than in those first few days

when it's a bit of a shock to the system

and simply getting through the day feels

like it's a uh an achievement and so I

do like the idea about growing in that

and so I know of I've mentioned already

silence I know that's been a really

transformative practice for you do you

maybe want to share even a little bit

around silence and what that's looked

like uh in your life and how you

discovered that as a practice and and

yeah what what it's been

like yeah um so I first started

intentionally practicing silence around

a time when I was struggling with

burnout and for me that burnout the

symptoms of burnout for me was large had

had a large component of anxiety to it

um and so I have to admit that when I

first started getting interested in that

space of of being intentional about

having times of quiet and silence um it

was in some ways a survival strategy wow

because I just had you know so much

going on and in some ways also just you

know when I first started doing it it

wasn't anything other than just a

technique for trying to manage anxiety

you know right um but as I began to

investigate that space I I discovered

that actually there's this whole

Heritage and tradition within the

Christian faith that is is you know um

interested in in silence as a as a a a

place to encounter God to encounter the

Divine and I found that very exciting

because that was dovetailing something

that I actually did need I needed to to

discover these spaces um to heal and to

and even just to be okay at sometimes um

and but then to discover that there was

something in in the the Christian

tradition that I'm that I am a part of a

tradition which I have

inherited um and that goes for all of us

in the body of Christ you know we need

to make sure we have this wider view of

of church history and all that's

available to us from 2,000 years of

History it's not just us and the early

church there's a whole you know there's

a whole lot of resource and richness and

treasure that we can we can partake of

and so I I was excited to discover that

there's this whole thing within

Christianity that's suround um and um

around encountering silence and and

practicing silence so that so that was

then the space that I really gravitated

towards it it became not just a

technique um for quietening myself in

anxiety but actually um a place of

Prayer

we get there

definitely that's okay that's an not

call you need to take feel free it's my

12 it's my left my PR so we've just been

interrupted by Andrew's alarm uh for

silence is that right so uh right now

it's going to be an awkward interview as

Andrew goes around the link hasn't

started yet no um yes so i' I've got an

alarm that's still goes off on my phone

every day at 12:30 which is a leftover

that I've kept going from that lent when

I I was doing set prayers four times a

day W um and i' I've left it on because

it is still a it's a practical thing at

12:30 I can suddenly think oh it's 12:30

I should probably have some lunch things

like that but it is still a reminder to

just be like oh take a moment take a

beat

um and just re Cent essentially great

and so in terms of the silence if we

were to go really practical um for

someone who maybe is feeling a little

bit overwhelmed or even someone who just

wants to develop that as part of their

practice I mean I think we live in a

world where we are absolutely bombarded

that the ability to be silent in the

presence of the Lord is something

beautiful but what does that look like

really tangibly so obviously you sit in

silence uh what does it look like for

you like obviously thoughts come uh

different things come how do you do you

have centering words do you try and pray

in your mind do you try and not pray in

your mind what does for you um I realize

it's not rules but it's just saying hey

for you how have you practically

experienced that because I think

sometimes we hear Hey it would be um you

know we can have times of Silence with

the Lord and which you don't always even

know totally what that

means yeah I mean one level it's just

it's a very practical thing silence is

silence so probably you're probably not

well I was going to say you're probably

not listening to music but for some

people listening to quiet music could

bring them into a place of Silence so

yeah I don't want to be prescriptive

because I think people sometimes will

have a sense of what it

is that brings them to a sense of

Silence not necessarily a literal sense

of Silence then sense of Silence um but

but at one level it is simply about

ceasing chatter ceasing you know

eliminating as much noise as possible

going into a common place um and

so in terms of science being a method of

prayer you are suspending the the

talking aspect of it I'm not saying you

should give up all talking to God

because I still believe that talking to

God is very important and hearing from

God is very important but in that time

of Silence you're actually the intention

is that you're actually just going to be

silent with the presence of God wow

ultimately that's the intention the

intention is that you in the presence of

God or the spirit of God are simply sit

sitting quietly

together um so how how does that happen

well some of it's out of our control h

but in being intentional about wanting

to be silent we can again it's about

opening up space for the spirit to come

into and so um there have been lots of

different techniques um put forward by

different people over the years um one

is one that's often talked about as sort

of being a good starting place is is

what's called centering prayer and

centering prayer the idea is is to

Center yourself on the indwelling spirit

within you like the holy spirit

indwelling in you you're centering on

that and the methodology for that is to

have a prayer word for a lot of people

that prayer word is

Jesus and what happens is that you're

aiming for your mind to be as quiet as

possible um so that you're creating that

space and so that when you notice your

mind's drifting into something else or

starting to chatter you say your prayer

word so in this case you would say

Jesus and go back to silence I mean we

can kind of demonstrate it a little bit

you you can maybe if you're watching

this or listening to this you can maybe

sense it that if if if Aaron and I sit

quietly and then say

Jesus you might actually be able to

sense something as you're listening or

watching that in the moments after we

say the word Jesus there is a

peacefulness and that and you're kind of

that's what you're trying to kind of

foster that moment after you say your

prayer word where things get peaceful is

kind of what you're trying to trying to

Foster so it doesn't wouldn't have to be

J that's very powerful for a lot of

people um but you might say love you

might say I mean for a time when I was

practicing this my word was

home because I just I I knew inside of

me I had this deep all this this deep

yearning for home I there was something

inside my spirit inside my heart that

was always longing for home so I thought

I'll I'll tap into that and for a time I

made my prayer word home and so as my

mind starts to wander and I start to

think about what I need to to it work

today or even sometimes chatter about

God stuff which can be productive but

isn't necessarily appropriate at that

moment um as that chatter starts to

accumulate um you remind yourself of the

space that you're in you say your prayer

word you definitely don't beat yourself

up over the fact that your mind started

getting busy cuz that just creates a

whole d

of yeah guilt doesn't really uh Foster

silence and and Solitude not helpful so

you are compassionate with yourself um

you go yeah this is wandering off is

what brains do right yeah okay you have

to be realistic about that but when you

notice that your your brains wandered

off um you s simply say your prayer word

and notice the peace or the or that

feeling of Stillness that comes in after

that and as time goes by hopefully that

Stillness and peacefulness starts to

expand out into your experience of of

the of the meditation you know like

sometimes we going be weary of a word

like meditation within Christian within

the Christian world but we don't need to

be the words in the Bible um you know

Christians have practice you know

meditating on the spirit and meditating

on the word for Generations so yeah it

can be a bit of a put for world but not

not to worry

um yeah if if if that's you know if it

helps you to frame it like that or it

doesn't help you to frame it like that

that's all cool but in those times um th

those moments of Silence are hopefully

going to start to expand out in in in

your Paran that you've side for sence

yeah it's good don't worry I I hope

people won't freak too much out about

meditation I did use the word mystical

in my sermon uh last Sunday so um you

know that's probably almost one step up

there in terms of triggering words but I

think that's really helpful and and so

you know as we think about this idea um

of uh you know what you're adding I I do

sometimes think it it it can tie in

directly with uh that which you are

sacrificing you know for example you

know when I'm having less time with

screens um silence is a great antidote

where it's like okay hey part of my for

time with screens is silence you know I

don't want to keep going on about the

coffee cuz I know for some people that

might be triggering but you know uh on a

very practical replacement sometimes

it's like hey I realize three times a

week I pay for a cup of coffee I might

actually donate that money and so that's

actually like a very practical um as a

hey I'm going to give this to the poor

or I'm going to uh you know give this to

someone as an act of worship to God and

so that's a something that would be

practical that's um coming into our time

of Lent where um obviously giving makes

up um you know part of the practice of

Lent as well so uh it doesn't always um

have to be uh traditional or you know

spiritual discipline in the way that we

think of them uh PR a Bible reading it

can also be things like giving right

absolutely yeah yeah absolutely um I I

think that I I hope that what would

happen is that as people spend a bit of

time thinking about what might what L

might look like for them and to actually

pray about it yeah I suspect that people

will start something might pop into

their mind about something which they've

they've kind of known about whether it's

a hunger to draw them into something

else and Experiencing God in a different

way or in a different mode that they're

hungry for something or it's something

which they know is kind

of you know maybe something they enjoy

but maybe it's holding them back a

little bit like they've got a little bit

sing of that I think that I think it

would be really cool if people just took

a bit of time to just maybe get an

incling of what what L might look like

for them if that's something to add in

um then that's awesome if that's

something to give up then that's awesome

as well but to be open to there might be

something

in your heart which is is offering an

invitation yeah you know like I'm not

talking about I'm not talking about a

hard task after God here at all there

might be some invitation within your

heart within your spirit that's saying

what about this like a a little voice a

still Small Voice that's saying you know

how about how about silence or how about

something in the area of giving or how

about you know absolutely and and so I

think that I think if that if it can

work like that I think I think that God

will be in it and it could be really

quite a fruitful time if that doesn't

happen for you and you just decide oh I

want to go XYZ then also go for it yeah

but as I said earlier I think it's

important to keep bringing God into the

space no matter what your activity is

you know so so even like really Al if

you give up coffee and you're feeling

those

withdrawals and you're feeling it really

tangibly invite God into that into that

space you know even if it's just uh

Jesus this feels really unpleasant you

know to to

constantly take whatever practices that

you're doing and tie it back yeah to to

the Holy Spirit to Jesus to the father

and know that ultimately that's what

you're trying to do you're not trying to

ultimately give up stuff just for the

sake of it you're ultimately hting to

Foster the place of

flourishing um within your relationship

and dynamic with God and I think

sometimes for me for example it can be

that Journey with the Lord um as you and

with yourself as you begin to think

about something for example I thought of

myself that I would like to give up

YouTube you know so that was something

that I just felt okay um this could end

up having a more healthy place in my

life and then slowly as I ponder that I

begin to think about um some of the

audio books that I'm wanting to listen

to and I'm like wow that could be a

great replacement and it wasn't that I

sat down there and went right YouTube

and then what am I going to replace it

with it just as I pondered on it and

then I thought well what else might be

uh and not in a driven way but I was

like okay well maybe some of that time

would actually be in silence and then

actually the third thing that I was like

well and I I hope the last cuz I'm

trying not to have too many things

related to that but was that some of

that time might actually be intentional

time with my family so it might be where

I was using YouTube as escapism after a

long day just to blob out for half an

hour and listen to something hey well

that might be that I'm extra present we

might go on a walk or we might do

something and so it wasn't that I sat

down and thought man I've got to find

three things that I'm going to add into

my life it was just as I spent some time

contemplating wow what will it look like

to pull this out of my life it's just

slowly these little invitations come up

and that doesn't mean I feel really

burdened that I have to every day make

sure it's silence and uh audio books and

uh and you know walks with the family

but it's just something that I feel

invited into and that those will be some

of the practices that I'll add in and

that I think will will bring life to me

and so um you know I I I like kind of

the holistic approach of that that it's

it's actually a season of life so it's

like so getting to the end of lint and

feeling like wow I feel more connected

to my kids you know I wow I know what it

is to have moments of Silence oh wow it

was so helpful listening to that book on

the Holy Spirit that's really given me

some new tools and so so uh yeah I think

that sort of feels like a lovely

invitation um but I didn't sit down on

one 20 minute session and say right

giving up YouTube what three things do I

need it's just as I contemplate and uh

spend some time thinking about it those

things kind of come forth and it's so

okay this is now feeling like what I can

do and probably that's helped for me

further on in my journey of Lent like as

it's been year by year that's become

more natural to kind of think okay Holy

Spirit uh and uh you know combination

with the Holy Spirit and my own thoughts

to come up with something that I think

will be meaningful and so um you know

the first one I was really like okay I'm

giving up coffee and trying to pray more

you know like that was really but that

was helpful and useful but I feel like

it's a little bit more nuanced now and

it's almost like a muscle that I'm

learning to develop a season that will

holistically uh be beneficial yeah yeah

and and and also allowing for the

possibility that after those 40 days

after the lent period there may be some

things there which you've established um

maybe not giving up coffee because I

know people struggle with that one but

maybe also you know man you want me to

keep spending time with my kids after

the 40

days that's a

possibility you might find that that's

so lifegiving that that that that becs a

non-negotiable um not

not necessarily specifically that but

but yeah allowing for the possibility

that that in doing this thing for Lent

you discover something which you like

like you maybe can't live without even

you know something you might discover

some way of connecting with God that you

know like you say whether that's going

for a for a walk beside the water or um

you know spending time in silence or or

whatever else that that you just like

well I don't I don't want to stop doing

that it's great yeah

and so we've talked a little bit about

um obviously those you talked about the

times of prayer what was that called

again what was the name of the four

times of prayer oh that's called um

praying the daily office or or praying

the hours yeah and and it it comes from

a um again hopefully not to freak

anybody out it comes from from a

monastic um tradition where where mons

and nuns would pray um at set times in

fact in some community ities they also

have a prayer time in the middle of the

night so there's those four there's also

a night Vig as well where they get up

and and um and speak the Psalms and

things like that so yeah that's um

praying the daily office or or praying

the

hours yeah that's traditionally called

yeah so I think we've sort of talked

about that we've talked about you know

the potential to add in something with

the reading and those kind of things

silence um giving you know so I wondered

Maybe just uh by way of Us closing if

you maybe just wanted to pray for us

just for a Grace that we would meet the

Lord um in anything that we do choose to

add that uh there wouldn't be an

unhealthy weight of expectation but we

would be able to add things that would

actually uh just be a blessing to us and

our walk with Jesus yeah can I just add

one more absolutely just that might I'll

try and keep it as as brief as possible

one more practice that and thinking

about talking to you about this that

really came to my mind so maybe maybe it

it would be helpful for somebody

watching this um back as I said you know

um we've got this wealth of of tradition

and the chrisan the body of Christ the

body of Christ isn't just here in now it

extends back and extends forward as well

and So within that tradition around I

think it was in the 1600s there's a guy

that um a lot of people may have heard

of Maybe not maybe B but he is

reasonably well known um called brother

Lawrence and his thing was has become

known as practicing the presence of God

and practicing the presence of God is

starts with the idea that God is with us

you know sometimes we get the

idea that the presence of God is

elsewhere and comes into our space and

there is an element of that we

experience that in worship on a Sunday

morning where we we feel God's Presence

at those

times the idea with practicing the

presence is that God is always present

and those those times when we feel him

more particular particularly are

heightened experiences of his presence

yeah they aren't the exception to the

rule that that that God is always

present and so brother Lawrence started

with that supposition that God the

spirit is always present with him and so

the difference

between sensing his presence therefore

is simply noticing that God is present W

so so brother Lawrence made it his

practice every time he it came to mind

to reinforce the fact that God is

present here with me now beautiful yeah

it's lovely and his Ro he was living in

a Christian Community and his actual job

Jo was repairing shoes and washing the

dishes and people started to wonder

about him because he'd be washing the

dishes and sometimes he would just start

laughing well he had so much joy washing

dishes that people some people thought

there was something a b wrong with him

but he was constantly connecting with

the fact that God was present with him

yeah so I thought I just thought I'd

passed that on and I thought in terms of

what I mentioned before about having set

times throughout the day where you pray

I thought perhaps it might help some

people if you set alarms on your phone

so you sit you don't have to sit an

alarm for when you wake up so when you

wake up and then s an alarm around

midday and then s or 12:30 and then

another alarm around

5:30 and so when you wake up in the

morning your first thing you do is go

God is present H to let self feel the

possibility that God is there with you

right now wow and and that might be you

might be able to do that by by

remembering a time when you really felt

strongly the presence of God and you

might be able to bring that memory of

feeling God's presence into

that moment to therefore go this the

presence of God feels like this and I'm

feeling it now but whether you feel

anything or not it still can be really

helpful to to think or even say out loud

God is present God is here so you wake

up in the morning and do that and then

once you've done that say thank you

thank God gratitude is such a powerful

thing yeah and you go and and so you

might be you might say thank you God

that you're present then your cell phone

alarm goes off at 12:30 and whatever

you're doing as far as it's possible

stop pause take a breath two or three

breaths deep breaths and then go connect

again God is

present thank you for your presence and

then later on on the day 5:30 your alarm

goes off you might be sitting at the

traffic lights whatever stay safe but

again there's this moment where you can

go God is present yeah thank you and

then before you go to sleep at night try

and make that the more or less one of

the last things you do before you fall

asleep beautiful so yeah that was I just

thought it might be helpful to to to

outline a specific okay practice and

that one combines the practice of the

practice of practicing the presence of

God and also the idea of throughout the

day at set times pulling yourself back

to an awareness of God wonderful yeah

could you pray for us

sure heavenly father I thank you that

we have this vast wealth

of Christian knowledge and experience

that reaches through the decades and is

is available to us now and I thank you

that we can draw on that I thank you

Lord that you're calling us always

calling us into something deeper with

you I thank you for this opportunity

this this period of Lent um where

there's an invitation there for us to

intentionally step into those things

which are creating space for you and

into practices where we can draw our

Focus back to you to reposition

ourselves in terms of where you're at

Lord and where you want to be in our

lives so I pray your blessing Lord on

everybody who decides to undertake this

practice that it will be lifegiving and

flourishing that you'll be with them in

any hard moments and help them to feel

that you are there and your presence is

with them and that through that they can

find that deeper place with you and that

deeper place of flourishing as

you bring us into being the people that

you've created us to be pray this in

Jesus name amen amen thanks so much

Andrew no worries thanks for having

me good thank you