Book of Revelation EPS 3

Chase: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Point Church Podcast. I'm here with Pastor Sam, as we're in season two, episode three today. And ⁓ we're moving today from, you know, our last episode we talked about the churches and all of that and kind of what each one kind of means and the all the different stuff that's involved in them. ⁓ but now today we're moving to a throne room. Now this chapters that we're in, Revelation four and chapter five, is very, very detailed. Would you say? Yes. It kind of feels like walking into an old church building. Like one that's like over two hundred years old and it's so ornate, it's so beautiful, like that you're like you really have to look around and take in all the detail to understand the fullness of the beauty. Yeah. And it doesn't always mean exactly what we think it means on the surface. No. No. And so today we're kinda going old school back to Season one. Season one with Matthew, where I read And Pastor Sam will interject when there is a time too. Right. 'Cause what we've been telling people is the sermons are for, you know, the general principles, what's going on so we don't get tripped up on the details. This book is very easy to get tripped up on details. Very much. But this is a time right now in the podcast where we can say, Okay, now we can get into the weeds, we can ask questions and we can do deep dives. Yeah. And so with that, we're gonna be starting in ⁓ as I said, ⁓ Revelations chapter four. Verse one After these things I looked and behold a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show you things which you which must take place after this. So this is again this is Jesus as his tour guide. Just to be clear, if you have your Bible open and you've read this passage, you'll notice that whenever Jesus speaks, of course it's in red. So Jesus is speaking here. So this is Jesus taking him up. And verse two it says, Immediately I was in the spirit, and behold a throne set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he who sat sat there was like a jasper and a ⁓ Sardis stone in appearance, and there was a rainbow around the throne in appearance like emerald. So right there, Sardis. Yeah, yeah. There And many I mean we were looking it up before there's ⁓ we found three or four different ⁓ Right. It was always Jasper, but some translations had Ruby's, others had ⁓ Cornelian, ⁓ but like we have these different interpretations. But what what we kind of defaulted to as we read into it more is that we would use ⁓ Cornelian and Jasper. So Jasper is ⁓ represents holiness and purity. Yeah. This is, you know, what they're trying to do, again, I should probably back up and say this. The Book of Revelation is literal, yes, but it's also communicating on many different things. Like it's communicating on different levels. So you have to have an understanding of the old testament in symbolism to understand what's literally happening. Yes. So again, with Jasper, Jasper was often associated with Holiness and purity. Yeah. So that's part of it. They're they're saying, yes, this is Jasper, but also it's communicating the holiness and the purity of God. So this is also trying to help us understand the attributes of the one sitting on the throne. Now for ⁓ the other one mentioned, it represents because it's more of a red color, it represents God's wrath, his righteousness, his justice or his ⁓ judgment. Yeah. When we think of the wrath of God. We we all kind of do one of these, like we recoil a little bit, but the wrath of God, as properly understood, is the wrath of God poured out on evil. We should only fear the wrath of God if we have not repented before God. Because if we've repented before God and accepted Jesus as Lord, then the wrath of God was poured out on Jesus instead of on us who deserved it. The wrath of God is reserved for evildoers. Who are not found in Christ. And the main target, as always, of course, is Satan and his demons. Yeah. But again, this is why everyone has the invitation to come and receive Christ and have the wrath of God say, Jesus took my punishment, therefore I am cleansed. I do not, you know, I will not receive what I am owed, instead I receive the blessing of Jesus. So Again, we're trying to understand and acknowledge these are attributes of God. The other thing to understand is ⁓ where it comes back to again to the Old Testament is in Exodus twenty eight. I wanted to pull this up as well. Exodus twenty eight, this is this famous story of, you know, Israel being delivered from slavery in Egypt and they're wandering in the desert. This is the part of the book of Exodus that everyone's kind of like, ⁓ the fun's over. Now we have to keep reading this for another twenty chapters and they're wandering and there's all these details and you know things like that. But it talks about how God is giving instructions for what the priest should wear in order to minister before God and represent the people. Yes. And they talk about a breastplate, like a breast covering for your chest, and there's twelve stones on it. And those twelve stones represent the twelve tribes of Israel. But the first one mentioned Is the ⁓ I had it right here, so my apologies. The first one is the ⁓ carnelian, which is represented here as you know the righteousness of God, and the last one represented is Jasper, the holiness of God. So all twelve represent something different of God, and all twelve represent the different tribes of Israel. So again, that first one often is associated with the oldest of Israel. Reuben, the first tribe, and Benjamin as the last. So again, God is trying to say the completion, the wholeness, all the attributes of me that were part of the priestly, you know, garment are being represented here. So this is where it's like it's not just a random color. He's communicating something ancient. Yeah. And with that rainbow. Yeah, yeah. The emerald rainbow. So the emerald rainbow is incredible ⁓ because Emerald was again, it's green. Mm-hmm. Pretty obvious. I'm colorblind for those of you who don't know. Greens and browns. It's not like drastic. So I I know what green stoplights are and everything like that. But he can drive. I can drive. But I know emerald green when I see it. Yeah. 'Cause it's so vibrant, it's so obvious. It's often again associated with springtime. Yeah. Growth, yeah, new life. Like you walk into a forest, you walk where there's a lot of greenery, you're gonna see a lot of emerald green. And so again, emerald communicated vibrant life. And it was also on the breastplate associated with the tribe of Levi. Now why is that significant? Because the Levitical tribe is the priestly tribe. So this is the tribe of the priests. Yeah. And so this vibrant life, the work of a priest. was to bring the life of God to the people of God. And this rainbow that is a full circle is again communicating the vibrant life that comes from the one who sits on the throne. And when we see rainbows today, like that naturally happen in the sky after a storm, we see half a rainbow. And we remember what the covenant was made with Noah. Yeah. But we only see half. Yeah. In the throne room of God, we see a full, vibrant, life altering rainbow showing this is the full picture. Here on earth we have half the picture. When we look at the throne of heaven, we get the full picture. And we see that again, later's gonna say, like, we've all been called to become the priests of God. Yeah. All of us have that same life dwelling in us, and we're called to go out. people who don't yet know the love of God and give the life of God to them. Yeah. Isn't it so amazing? Like God just like little stuff like that, like a rainbow. Yeah. Right? Like that it can but the meaning behind it. And like when you get it just it always blows my mind those little things of noticing like We're half a rainbow. That's right. When we get to heaven, it's the full picture. It's full picture. And in again, like just in these early scenes, it's trying to say, Yes, look how beautiful it is, but look what it's representing that you have the judgment on evil. Yeah. That evil will be taken care of. You have the righteousness, the holiness of God, mixed with the mercy of God, mixed with the life of God. It's all in so it's like helping you understand what God is like. By trying to describe it in ways that we can understand. Mm-hmm. That's so good. It is. Alright, and so let's get into some of the people there, right? Yep. Yep. in verse four, it picks up and it says, Around the throne was twenty was twenty-four thrones. And on the throne I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes, and they had crowns of gold on their heads. And from the throne preceded lightning, thundering, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God. Mm-hmm. So there's a lot of imagery. Yes. Right there. Yes. ⁓ who are the twenty four elders? Right. ⁓ the twenty-four elders as it's best understood through not my interpretation, but through historical biblical interpretation, is the twelve tribes of Israel. Mm-hmm. Mixed with the twelve apostles, not including Judas for obvious reasons, but the one who replaced him. So it's you in in s simply you can understand the twelve who represented the old testament and the twelve who started the new testament coming together to worship God, they wear white, often associated with purity, gold, with royalty. So these are people who've been made pure and been made royal because of God. And they are the ones who are in a way the inner circle. I mean, any of us would say, Yeah, it makes sense that Peter's up there. And it makes sense that like Joseph is up there, you know, the ⁓ of many colors. So you're like, okay, that makes sense. And and then when we watch what they're doing, it it demonstrates their humility and demonstrates, you know, why they're in that inner circle. Yeah. ⁓ and you talked about did you talk about the sea there's seven spirits in the sea of glass yet? Not yet. Okay, let's get to that and then those are those are very interesting. That's our next one. ⁓ in verse six, before the throne there was a sea of glass like crystals. Mm-hmm. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne were four living creatures full of eye of eyes in front and in back. Yes. The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature like a calf, and the th the third living creature had a face like a man And the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle. The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God God Almighty, who was and is and is to come. When whenever the living creature give creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who sit on the throne. Who lo lives forever and ever. The twenty four elders fall down before him, who sits on the throne and worship him, who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they exist and were created. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So again a lot of imagery and lot of imagery. lot of different animals that we probably have never heard of. Yes. So living creatures. So what we have, let's let's if we back it up to the seven spirits, we'll start with that one. Yeah. Seven lamps. We talked about that. most likely like a menorah, the seven because that was like what the seven churches were representing, the light of God. So we don't need to get into that too much. But the interesting one is the seven spirits of God. Cause we were I I kind of scratched my head at that one. I'm like seven spirits of God? I thought there was just like the holy one. You know. Yeah. But what they are communicating, it is the Holy Spirit, but it's the seven attributes of the Holy Spirit. Again, completeness. So here's just a list to understand ⁓ what the Holy Spirit does. That it it has more than this. Yeah. But this is like the seven main things the spirit can do. Plus. So whenever you see seven, think wholeness complete. So it's like pointing towards it beyond itself. There's more than this happening. Yeah. So you see, ⁓ The spirit of the Lord, you know, just the fact that the Spirit is with you. There's an anointing from God. So you carry the Spirit with you, the spirit of wisdom, the wisdom to discern and make the godly choice. All believers should be familiar with this. Conviction, you know, what have you. A spirit of understanding. How many of us have been like, I don't really know where that came from, but this thought kind of hit me. That's the Holy Spirit again. Spirit of counsel, able to guide others. Like when you sit down, pray with someone processed, again, the spirit is in that room 'cause it's at work within you. ⁓ the spirit of power, spirit of, you know, strength, fortitude, like to push through difficult situations. ⁓ Paul talks about this. We were not given a spirit of fear, but of power and you know, yep. ⁓ spirit of knowledge, deep intimate awareness of God. This is how ⁓ Christians without being heretical can say, I am sensing this is something from God. Mm-hmm. Like it's actually a place of humility, not trying to speak for God and say, I'm so powerful, but to be like with fear and trembling, I hope I get this right. Yes. And it seems like this is what God's saying, you know, spirit of knowledge. This has obviously been corrupted in some ways in church circles. But then the best one I think, ⁓ that people that really wraps it all together is the spirit of the fear of the Lord. Mm-hmm. Because that gets talked about the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Yeah. That it's like Yeah. You don't just say, I speak for God. It's like I am speaking for God right now and I'm terrified to hear. I don't want to mess this up. That's what kind of gut checks you. Yeah. ⁓ going through. So this is like the reverent awe submission to God's holiness. And that's on full display with these twenty four elders who are like, Holy, holy are you. All the creatures are doing the same. They do it day and night, over and over. ⁓ now these day and night. They're not resting. No. So So each of the four living creatures, ⁓ there's ⁓ different interpretations. ⁓ there's two that I'll offer that again, this is not we shouldn't go to war over these. Like these are just interpretations. What does this mean? But it would be probably best to say, like, okay, the lion, you know, king of the jungle. Yeah. It's the king of their domain. Ox is like the strongest represents the strongest animal on land. ⁓ The human being, you know, was given dominion over all creatures, and then the eagle is the king of the sky. So it just represents, you know, the highest element of every part of creation worshiping God. There's another so that's one, you know, all creation worships God. Another interpretation that i is interesting is ⁓ that they represent four different elements of the four gospels. Because the four gospels had already been written. Yep. And we're circulating and but they communicate something different. So again, this is just kind of a theory, but it it's kind of cool to think about that the lion is the gospel of Mark because the lion symbolizes royalty, power, and courage. Mark focuses on that a lot, yeah. With Jesus being the servant king and son of God. The ox represents the gospel of Luke. Mm-hmm. Beast of burden, used as the sacrifice and service. Again, we see that in Jesus' role as the ultimate servant going to the cross. Yeah. The man represents the book of Matthew, highlighting intellect and reasoning because it starts again with Jesus' genealogy. Yeah. How often in the Gospel of Mark it would like pointed back to that. His earthly ministry, his teachings, his role as Messiah, it's a very intellectual book. Yeah. And ⁓ the eagle represents the gospel of John. The eagle symbolizes divine majesty, swiftness, the ability to soar above the earth, and it focuses on Christ's divinity. So all four gospels tell the same story, but from four different angles. So that's another theory of what's going on here. Pretty good theory. Yeah, I think so. Like nothing in there's heretical. It's like, ⁓ and if it's not, just a cool coincidence. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just a cool coincidence. ⁓ the Sea of Glass is really like kind of the last detail I think to dwell on outside of the fact that everyone's worshipping God. Every that's a detail you can't read. There's no debate who's the center of attention here. It's the one on the throne. But the Sea of Glass is very interesting because ⁓ they speculate and I think it's right that when Solomon built the temple of God, it was meant to be the place where the presence of God dwelt, right? The holy of holies, where the high priest would go one day a year and be in the full presence of God. And this is why there was all these rituals. But part of laying out the temple was it was meant to be a reflection of what was happening in the throne room of heaven. So that when you went to the temple, it feels like you're getting a a preference or a preference, ⁓ you kind of an introduction, a preview of what it would be like in heaven. Yeah. So part of ⁓ the temple project was a basin, I believe, of copper. And so that was a Something that was built that was massive part of the temple. So this is again sea of glass kind of reflected in this giant copper basin. But the other interesting part for this story is later the beasts that rise up to defy God come from the sea. And it's a a stormy sea is where they come from. This sea is calm. Yeah. Clear. There's no storm happening. There's no chaos. And it was such a part of the imagination of a first century, ⁓ specifically Jewish writer, that they often associated the sea with evil and darkness and dragons. Yeah. Which is why when the storm hits in the gospels and they all think they see Jesus walking on the sea, what is the first thing they say? It's a Ghost. They think it's a demon. Yeah. Because that's what they associated with. The sea was where the demons were. That's where they dwelt, especially when it was stormy. Yeah. So Jesus walks on it showing, ⁓ I can calm any storm. Yeah. I'm no demon. And that was the second time ⁓ not just not Jesus walking on water, but Because the first time when they freaked out was when he was asleep. Yeah, like right. Like he's he's as calm as if it's a calm sea. With an experienced like most of the guys were experienced fishermen. Yes. But they're freaking out enough to wake up their rabbit. And then that second one they're like, Yes. ⁓ this is a ghost. Like this is Right, right, 'cause he's not with them. And then and then he shows them who in to the point where Peter walks on the stormy sea, showing yeah that anyone in Christ can navigate the evil of the storms of life and can walk above it because not of our own strength or talent or goodness or what have you, but because of Jesus calling us out. So this is part of what's being shown here is like while the world is raging and looks like a storm, before the throne of God is calm. There's no power struggle. He's center of attention and it's calm. So I would say those are like the main ones to focus on for Chapter four. To really Yeah. And there's so much more. But that's just a great entrance place, honestly, to be like there's a lot being communicated here. Yeah. And again, I think reading this and you you and you saying it of like how calm and how beautiful and these creatures and the elders again we're trying to relate that book of Revelations. If you are in Christ this is a hope book. It's it's showing you the beauty that is to come. This is your king. Yes. This your king's not freaking out. No. Your king's not in a power struggle. There's no rebellion that's gonna win against your king. No. That should give you great comfort. Should great give you incredible comfort. Yeah. That the king is on his way to rescue you. Yeah. And we're gonna get into this next part, chapter five here with the scrolls and again a lot of imagery, but I think too this one's ⁓ at least to me, a little more clearer. As we I would say so. As we read through it. So ⁓ Picking up in ⁓ verse one here it says And I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose ⁓ lose its seals, and no one in heaven or on earth Or under the earth was able to open the scroll or look at it. So I wept much. Yeah. Let's pause there for just a hot second. Yeah. It would be one of the books that I read in anticipation for this study said it would be quite interesting to receive a letter in the mail that instead of being addressed to you, was addressed to the worthy one ⁓ of your household. You'd be like, Well, how do we determine that? Yeah. So it it is this ⁓ interesting idea that to begin this process of bringing this current broken world to an end, not just to go into oblivion, but to create a new heaven and new earth requires a certain amount of worthiness. Like who can carry out this task, this work? Like you're not just gonna give it to anyone. No. And ⁓ what I compared it to this ⁓ past Sunday was ⁓ King Arthur before he was king. Pulling the sword from the stone, that he was able to do it because he was the one found to be the true heir who was worthy to unite ⁓ Britain and the people of Britain. In many ways, this is the it's not just because to open the scroll, but to carry out what's written on it. That's that's who they're searching for, and they can find no one. Not the holiest person, not even one of these four creatures, not one of the twenty four elders, not not Angel Michael, none of that. Like it's No one can be found. Yeah. Until Yeah and so that's why John weeps, because he's weeping that he's like, Is this the way the world's gonna be forever? There's always gonna be disease, darkness, there's no resolution, evil winds. Yeah. Until this scroll gets opened, that's that's the story of the world. And ⁓ there's no healing to come until we find someone worthy. Mm-hmm. And after that after it reads, So I wept much Because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll or to look at it. But one of the elders said to me, Do not weep. Behold, the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to lose its seven seals. And I looked and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders stood a lamb as though it had been slain. having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into out into all the earth. Then he came and took the scroll out of the right hand of him who sat on the throne. Now, when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp and a golden ⁓ bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints And they sang a new song saying, You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and have made us kings and priests to our God, we shall reign on the earth. Then I looked and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, at the living creatures and the elders, and the numbers of them. was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the lamb who is slain, to receive power and riches and wisdom, and strengthen and honor and glory and blessing. And every creature which is in the heaven and on earth and under the earth, and such are as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying, Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb forever and ever. Then the four living creatures said Amen. And the twenty four elders fell down and worshipped him who lived forever and ever. Yeah. So the only one who is worthy to begin the process that we're about to enter into because really after this chapter is when you get into the part of revelation that everyone focuses on. Yes. The the the pain. Yeah. Of childbirth of a new heaven and new earth coming, which is what it is. ⁓ you know, pain always precedes new life, mm-hmm, which is what we're about to get into. But that's what everyone hyper focuses on. What we also need to hyperfocus on is the one who's in charge doing this work. It's not random, it's not chaotic, it's operating as it's supposed to. And there's some interesting imagery again that like ⁓ I it bears repeating, but Louis mentioned it on Sunday that they say, Look, it's the Lion of Judah, but when he actually so he hears it's the Lion of Judah, but when he sees it's the lamb who is slain. And we talked about this ⁓ a little bit, but like this is often how we encounter Jesus in our everyday lives. That before we really know Jesus, like you you kinda hear about him and it almost is this lofty idea. ⁓ I know I need to get right with Jesus, you hear people say, or you know, Jesus wants nothing to do with me. Like you can almost dismiss it because it's it's like trying to say, ⁓ yeah, I know there's a king in England. Yeah. It'd be cool to meet him at some point, I guess. And I'm sure he's powerful and has authority. But it's like it's almost easy to push it away in a way, or fall and be like, ⁓ I'm not worthy to meet that guy. Yeah. We we can kind of chalk Jesus up to an idea in that. And that's like what hearing about Jesus is like for many people. But when you see him with the eyes of your heart, you're like, ⁓ my goodness, this is yes, what people have told me, but nothing like I expected. That when Jesus comes into your life for the first time, what you experience isn't fear. What you actually experience is joy and peace. It's the experience of honestly like being with The greatest creature, like a lamb in many ways, you're like it melts your heart, it softens your soul, like it just does things to you that you're like, ⁓ this is what I thought I was going to be trying to find in all these other areas of life, but it's only found in the presence of the Lamb. So he's both. Yeah. And trying to like again unite those together is so critical for people to understand what it's like to have Jesus in your heart. So in this though, it's not like he's just a straightforward lamb. He's got some extra features here. We've got some extra horns, we've got some extra eyes. And ⁓ if we were to go to a farm and there was a lamb with seven eyes and seven horns, we'd be like, ooh, that's not that cute. Like it's probably gonna have a news article and ⁓ it'd be on the what was that? The ⁓ the it was like we get it in school. It was like the weird ⁓ yeah, like the Guinness Book of World Record. But no it was like ⁓ what was it? It was Ralph Was it Ralph? I don't know. They have all those different ⁓ weird ⁓ museums. Anyways, go ahead. Ripleys. Ripley's Ripley. All right, people were screaming the car to us just like Ripley's Ripley's Yeah. Ripley's believe it or not. Yes, exactly. So what's happening again is the seven horns, because later horns come back to describe the other beasts that come against God. Horns in the book of Revelation most often, if not always, represent strength. Yes. So horns represent strength. When you read it later, you'll see horns, strength. Just think that. Yeah. ⁓ so this one has seven complete strength. Complete. The lamb has all strength, all power. Seven a lot. Yes, you do. Seven eyes. Again, Ripley's believe it not, seven eyes, this lamb has all knowledge. Yeah. This lamb sees everything. Sees all. This lamb knows everything. So this lamb, Jesus, has all strength. And all knowledge. That's the one who's worthy to do this work. So that's very key to understand. Again, you're like when you understand it, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That's why he's worthy. This is why he can do this work. He has all the strength. He has all the knowledge. He is the king of the universe. He sits on the throne with his father and the spirit. So like Okay. He takes the scroll from the Exactly. And he can do that work. This is why they're like, the worthy one is here. We can fall down. worship because we know this is the one who's gonna put the world back together again. So that's so good. Yeah. It it is so good. And ⁓ I I think now is a good time. Yeah. Well, I did wanna come off for the video or if you have anything else. I do have one other thing that please say not quite like a hot take, but more of a gripe. Yeah. ⁓ there was a season not that long ago, maybe like ten years ago, even longer at this point, where there just seemed to be a slew of books that were coming out about heaven. Yeah, maybe like ten fifteen. It felt like just a lot of books were coming out talking about this person dies, goes to heaven, and now I've got a book tour or a movie coming out. Things like that. Speaking in And I'm not trying to be the church curmudgeon or anything like that. But I also have that as a spiritual gift. I there's something always felt off about those books because I came to faith as a high schooler with some imagination of what scripture said, but I really had to dig into it for myself. Yeah. And I think because of that, I was able to in some ways like filter out what was like, that's not what I read. Cause I kind of came at it somewhat blank slate. My gripe was some of these books. The attention tends to be more on the person's experience in a family reunion. Rather than what seems to be that the entire atmosphere of heaven is consumed with worshiping God. Mm-hmm. It seems to me, and I'm not saying all of them, but a lot of it is just projecting American vision of heaven and saying, ⁓ yeah, this happened. This is what it's like. Isn't that nice and comforting? And it is nice and comforting. I know there's a section of heaven that where that is going to happen. Like we will probably be able to recognize one another, share conversations. I mean, we have all eternity. But it would be quite shocking to me if God was almost pushed to the side and the focus is more on us connecting with who we love and know and we put God in the corner when it seems to me that every time someone is caught up into heaven in the scriptures, it it'd be like stepping outside in the middle of summer and saying, ⁓ is it sunny today? I didn't notice. Mm-hmm. Are you kidding me? You didn't notice? Yeah. It it'd be like trying to ignore that. And and that's where I think I have a little bit of heartburn being like, no, this is the beauty and the majesty of the reality we're going to. Yes, there will be family reunions and all will be whole and healed and but it's because of the God. It's because of Jesus. Yeah. Not because of, you know, whatever vision we want it to be. So like we need to keep the main thing the main thing and keep our eyes fixed there and then we're able to you know what I'm saying? Like kind of go out and so th part of it was just a little bit of like, why is this downplayed? I don't know and everything else is played up and it's really the opposite. Yeah, like my own vision of it is like when I read this is like That I mean, of course I wanna see my family, I wanna see my friends. I wanna But if I get to go and I see these cr living creatures and I see elders and I I see Jesus as the Lamb and God and a glass and that's beautiful, I'm like Yeah That sounds awesome. Right. And like everyone's just singing to God and it's safe and it's peaceful and there's more Well, I think that song that kind of got, you know, overplayed for a while but is still so beautiful of I can only imagine. Yeah. actually gets it very right. Number one Christian song of all right. But it gets it very, very right. It's like like what will it be like to be in your presence of Jesus because John is in his presence. He can't say anything. No. He can't speak. All you can do is weep. And I think that song does get it right. That you're like, this is the right order of attention. This is the right order of affection. And the one who really helped me learn this in high school was ⁓ Francis Chan. Yeah so I'm not saying I know him, but I watched some of his videos 'cause was just like trying to like grow and of course consume anything that was, you know, Christian. He said, if you get to heaven and everyone you ever loved and everything you've ever wanted it to be was there, but Jesus wasn't, would it be enough for you? Mm-hmm. It's a good question. Yeah. I think And that's that was like the first time that it really started to break the veneer in my mind of how Americans tend to talk about heaven, which seems to be just More like the American dream, but forever. Yeah. No, that's But it's kind of like are we just projecting what we find pleasurable and comfortable? Yeah. And That's a that's versus what scripture tells us is actually fulfilling and beautiful. Yeah. And that's what actually colors in those relationships and makes us whole and complete and our passions fulfilling. I really like what you just said there is Are we just basically creating the American dream? What that's in everyone's head and that's our heaven. Yes. So really, I mean that's a dangerous game 'cause then if you create the American dream and you get it here on Earth. You're tempted to become comfortable here and make it your home. Yeah. And then when you get to heaven you're like, Well that's not quite what I wanted it to be. I want in, you know, like the house and like this and it's like Where's my Ferrari? Yeah. Dude, you're in front of God. Like, how are you not? Mm-hmm. Because it shows like the treasure of your heart should be Jesus Christ, no matter if you live in the slums or million dollar, you know, estate. Like the treasure of your heart should always be Jesus Christ. And again, not scripture. Scripture, one step down, is C. S. Lewis talking about one of his most famous sermons was called The Weight of Glory. And he discusses this idea where we try and project onto God, the things that we find pleasurable, and he compares it to children playing in ⁓ with mud pies in the streets. Yeah. And we're content with that because we cannot imagine a vacation at the sea. We're far too content, is what he says. Yeah. So we just want to keep our mud pies and we think that's pleasurable because as children don't understand a Caribbean cruise, let's say. Yeah. And God's offering us a Caribbean cruise and we're like, No, I'm comfortable with this. That's what I'm saying. Like the main thing is the main thing of we don't even understand what's on offer, so I don't want to project my mud pie on saying, ⁓ it's just as good as that cruise. No, it's not. No, it's not. It's not. It's not what your heart was built for. It's not your soul craves. Yeah, like you seeing getting to experience the true joy of finally being there. Yes. And the source of that joy. And the source. You get to see him. Yes. You get to talk and you get to worship him v right there. Yes. Like that is And the reason you seek that we seek to be with those family members or those friends that we're disconnected with is because they reminded us of the echo of the source of joy. Yeah. That's that's what we get outside of Jesus and the Spirit is we get the echo of joy. That's what I get from Melissa, you get from Megan, is they are not the source of joy. They are not the source of peace, but they echo it. They echo through their relationship with Christ. So yes, of course I want to spend time with them. Yeah. But the source is there. Yeah. That it's right. The source of the music, the source of all art, the source of all beauty, the source of all light and goodness, and you know what I mean? Everything that makes us desire more is there. Yeah. I think it's a good check for anyone listening is this week to write down what heaven on earth to you looks like. And to check that that if you would be more comfortable there or here with Jesus. Yeah. And be honest about it and be like, okay. And if it if it is here, then you know, work the steps to get into there. Because the amazing thing is often God first yes, he'll call us out of sin to be like, Hey, yeah, like if to start following me, you probably need to stop doing some habits that you think are bringing you Pleasure, but they're false. Yeah. But false idols. Right. But you actually enjoy the gifts of God more when you know the giver. Yeah. You enjoy your children more. You enjoy your spouse, your friends, your job more. Yeah. Because you're not trying to make them fill the crevices of your heart. You know the giver. Yeah. And it says the Lord gives and takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord. So like you can be like, ⁓ like I I can love my wife but not have to depend on her to be my salvation. Yes. And the source of my happiness. Like without it, you'll put too much weight on the gifts. It goes into that, like in the recovery community, like codependency a lot. Yeah. Like and codependency also goes with that joy. So like Right. And then you'll just jump from gift to gift to gift. Like ⁓ well, my kids weren't doing it for me, so maybe my career will. Or you know, this wife wasn't doing it for me, so I'll get a new one. Or yeah, right. Like, and it's not trying to knock anyone who's listening because we've all done that. Yeah. Every human being's done that. One form or another, we've worshipped something other than Jesus and tried to find fulfillment in that. This is why the argument for why Jesus is better to me is the most compelling argument today's day and age. Yeah. And I think that's why you see young people flocking to Jesus because they're like, This isn't fool's gold, this is real gold. This is something true and real. I've I've reached the bottom of every other well. 'Cause it's all on my fingertips. Yeah. ⁓ I didn't have to wait years to figure out that sex or ⁓ you know what I mean, wasn't fulfilling. It was all at my fingertips and I could watch it rise and fall from my screen and then you encounter Jesus and you're like, This is real. This is infinite. This is deep. And I think that's why people run to it. I do too, 'cause I think speaking of the screen, like they see a lot of stuff on screens and none of it becomes real. Mm mm but Jesus does. Yeah. And that's I I like that. That's that is really cool. Kind of a side tangent, but I just think like this is why we have to read our scriptures, yeah. Interpret it through the biblical historical lens, because we actually will find what we're searching for and we don't have to project something. I hope it's like this and then it's fulfilling. You're like, no, it will be. Yeah. Trust that process. It will be. Yeah. All right. So with that, again, this is ⁓ this is our second time doing this. ⁓ I will be showing Pastor Sam a video that he does not know and has not seen. ⁓ this one today has nothing to do with anything we're talking about, but it'll be a great one for Pastor Sam to take a look at and then afterwards we'll come back and ⁓ you'll get to see his reaction and ⁓ he'll talk about it a little bit before we close out today's podcast. Sounds great. Okay, Pastor Sam, what is your ⁓ thoughts on this one today? How to lose a congregate member in ten days or ten minutes. Like holy crap. What? Yeah. That was like the least Christ-like thing I've ever seen. Yeah. This dude just blew a gasket. Yeah, you're not worth 15 cents, is what he said. ⁓ that's pretty Tough to again, I haven't seen this, but to like that's pretty tough to wrap your head around when Jesus said, You're worth my blood. Yeah. But one guy whose feelings got hurt. Yeah, he's important, remember? He's important. Well that's I was about to say that's his problem is he's prideful. Yeah. As soon as your pride gets hurt, you start hurting everyone else. Yeah. To make yourself feel better. Like and then to turn around and say, I'm supposed to marry you, what makes you think I'm gonna you're like, who do you think you are, dude? Like, are you serious? Are you serious? Like, who do you think you are? Being like, I'm not gonna marry you. Like, what a compelling argument. Would you say that to your children? You're not worth 15 cents. You think I'm gonna raise you? You think I'm gonna go to your baseball game? You're the sorriest congregate I got. ⁓ my gosh. Well, that's again, that was the other thing. I was like, the root of all this is pride. Yeah. Where he he thinks they're his congregants. Yeah. They're not. They're not his. They belong to Jesus first. Like belong to Jesus. And like They took their time to still be there. He he has no idea. Maybe they work third shift. We have people in our church that work night shifts and they they're actually coming off of their day to come to church and Yeah. Yeah. Dude, you never fall asleep in prayer. You never fell asleep like in the middle of like praying to Jesus and then you just doze off. Are you serious? In the military, we used to pray. And like we used to like fall asleep and I'll like s they would come wake us up and I'd be like, Amen. Like, you're I heard a story of someone doing that. Like some British comedian Tommy Cooper would like fall asleep standing at attention, then they were about to yell and be like, Yeah, it's Amen. Right when you get there, I don't know why, but like s some of the kids like teach you that kind of stuff. Like they don't know, but they're like just say all men. So you do. But Well that guy clearly knew he was wrong 'cause he kept saying, like You know, I love I love you. Give me some love. Which is like I mean, I'm sorry, but like that's kind of what people say to family members they abuse. Yeah. Yeah. I love you. And you're like, ⁓ wait, hold on. Your actions are saying something different than your words. And and in this case, his words were saying different something different than his words. That was That was Manic almost. Like Yeah, he needs a vacation and prayer or a priest or holy water. Like he needs lunch. Like that dude lost it. Yeah. So the scary thing is if you do that in the pulpit, what are you doing in meetings? And if you're doing that in meetings, what are you doing? Marriage counseling. Right. Like not just marriage counseling, but in your marriage. I'll say what those two. Yeah. Like what are you doing? Yeah, in your own marriage. That's terrifying. ⁓ so again, every week we will not be attending that church, most likely. that's a wild every week we will be showing Pastor Sam here a video again. It could have to do with it. This is just an exercise and horrifying me, I swear. Like being like, Don't do this. Everyone gets to see Pastor Sam's ⁓ immediate reaction to stuff. That's right. And I'm gonna figure out how to show his face during it because if you could have saw his face, he kept looking at me like are you serious right now? I just kept covering my mouth. Yeah, like as if I was saying Are you serious right now? So ⁓ but yeah. ⁓ but with this we're gonna be closing today. So ⁓ Pastor Sam, is there any closing thoughts that you wanted to give out ⁓ for this week? ⁓ I would just say if you're following along in this journey through the book of Revelation, be reading it for yourself. Yes. Be researching this. ⁓ read it slowly. Let it medit like meditate on it. ⁓ yeah, just dwell on the fact that this is your king. Yeah. Your king wants you. I think that's sometimes a t tricky reminder. When we see the holiness of God, we often look at ourselves and we're like, I'm not worthy. And that's a right instinct. We're not. But we're only worthy because he says we are. Mm-hmm. So I again I would say you just read slowly, meditate, spend time in the presence of Jesus, ⁓ go to the throne of God, you have access like that. Mm-hmm. last thing is, ⁓ told this I think in the first service, I think I forgot the second. But or other way around. But there was a story I heard recently where it was who is the only one in the kingdom that can wake up the king for a glass of water? The son or the daughter. Even his wife would most likely be like the king would be like, You get your own water. Or send a servant. Only the prince or the princess can wake up the king in the middle of the night, walk past all the guards, and say, I have to talk to my dad. I need a cup of water. That's the only and that's the access we have to our king. Yeah. Because he calls us sons and daughters. So bring it all to him, dwell on him, meditate on him, and allow him to be the treasure of your heart. Let ⁓ guide you. Let ⁓ guide you. You are worth more than fifteen cents. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. If you haven't heard it today, you are. So ⁓ we thank you for tuning in again to the Point Church podcast and we're grateful wherever you're listening. ⁓ we're so grateful and ⁓ we can't wait to see you next week. So