Book of Revelation EPS 9

Chase: And welcome back to the Point Church Podcast. I am here today with Pastor Sam as we are ending this season two of Revelation. Mm-hmm. And so today we thought we'd do something fun. We're gonna give Pastor Sam here a clock of one minute and seventeen seconds. Or seventy-seven seconds. That's right. And we're gonna give him seventy-seven seconds to answer Kind of review questions, new questions, everything else. there's twenty five. We ask Google what are the top twenty five questions on Revelation? Yep. And these are the ones we spit out. So again, these might be some review. Mm-hmm. So I'd be new, you might have missed it. But either way, Pastor Sam has seventy seven seconds to answer them. Yep. So let's hit it off right away with the first one. What's the biggest mistake people make when reading revelation? The biggest mistake people make is they think it was written to them in their culture and they can understand it without understanding history, context, or commentary. Pretty quick. You finish that one in one minute and three seconds. Okay. All right. Next question. If you could give someone one rule of interpreting revelation, what would it be? Read the old testament. Easy enough. Why is understanding the Old Testament so important for understanding Revelation? Because it's a callback over and over. The prophecies are from the Old Testament. The fulfillment is in Jesus for who were the modern Christians at that time. And their scriptures were the Old Testament. That's why you have to read it. Okay. What's something you believed about Revelation before the series that changed your mind about it? Hmm. That it was complicated, more complicated than I thought, when if you read what it is saying and what it is not saying through the lens again of the old testament and you understand that yes, it's metaphorical, so much of that language is metaphorical. If you understand what they mean and you keep a consistent lens, it's actually quite a simple story. Be faithful to Jesus, you are enduring hard times, hard times will come. It'll only stop when God comes back and restores the world. Mm. Okay. Which of the seven churches most resembles the American church today? Mm. Laodicea comes to mind. Ephesus. I think Ephesus maybe is like you have forgotten your first love in some ways, although I think we're seeing a resurgence of that. Yeah. again, it it's hard to group a whole nation, especially one this large, into one. But I would say either hot nor cold, so I'll spit you out of my mouth. And the other one being, you know, you've lost your first love. But I do th have hope that American Christianity is on the rise, like true American Christianity is coming back. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Which what's the biggest misconception that you think Christians have about heaven? That we're gonna be floating on clouds, playing harps and singing all day. I think people think heaven is gonna be really boring. You know, honestly, and it's not. It's gonna be it's gonna be incredible. Like all the good things of this world will carry over into their truest form, which we talked about on Sunday. Yeah, amen. who are the hundred and forty four thousand And are they the same people as the great multitude? Yes. It plays on the same rhythm that John used when he says he heard it was the lion of Judah and then he saw that it was the Lamb of God. So he heard it was a hundred and forty th forty four thousand, twelve thousand from each tribe, and then he saw it was a great multitude from every tribe, nation and tongue. So again Multitudes. Yeah. Okay. What does six six six actually mean? It's the most debated on thing. So where I have landed, I will say that. I'm answering this from where I've landed from my studies. And if you disagree, as long as you have scripture to back it up, there's room for disagreement on this. But for six six six, what I believe it means is in Hebrew it translates to beast. And in Greek, it translates to Nero, as in Nero is being used by the beast to harm God's people, just as Babylon and the beast have harmed God's people for centuries. And so who and what is the beast? Satan, you know, the dragon, that the the ultimate enemy of God's people, using the world's systems and the world's brokenness to come against the kingdom of. Alright. What is Babylon and could modern nations become Babylon? Babylon was a actual empire. It started with the Tower of Babel and it grew to be the nation of Babylon that, you know, did exist throughout U or throughout world history and conquered Israel. could a nation but then it also Came to resemble all nations that come against God's people. So it was a placeholder as well. could a modern nation become Babylon? Absolutely. Wherever the enemy is being is using government and corrupt systems to harm God's people, absolutely, they are Babylon. Alright. Why does a loving God judge evil? A loving God judges evil because in order to be good. There must be a moral hierarchy. There must be good, which means there must be bad. And so in order to say that's evil would be to say something else is good because it lacks evil. And to be loving would say, This is wrong, and I will stop it so that it doesn't harm those whom I love. So a loving God judges evil because he is good. Okay. So this is a big one. I think we talked about a little bit, but it's a great question. If Jesus defeated Satan at the cross, why is Satan still active today? He is active but limited. The way that I this is my words, not scripture. Yeah. verbatim, but scripture I believe backs this up that Satan has been tied up but not gagged. So his greatest weapon is his tongue, is lying. Mm-hmm. So that's what so much spiritual warfare looks like is believing lies, half truths and Then you just watch someone self-destruct. C.S. Lewis would talk about this in the screw tape letters. So while Satan's been defeated, he is still active because the time has not come for the final judgment. God is withholding the final judgment in order for everyone to come to repentance. Okay. So what's the biggest thing Christians misunderstand about spiritual warfare? that it's more like the exorcist movies than actually believing, like I said, half truths and lives. There's a a book called Talking Back, from the fourth century. Vagrius Ponticus, I think, was the monk who went to be a desert father and he battled spiritual warfare and he described it as more of a battle of the mind. Mm-hmm. Of lies and combating it with truth, which is again what you'd see in scripture with Jesus being tempted in the wilderness rather than someone being lifted up in the air, spun around and throwing up on everyone. Like that's actually not that's Hollywood. That's Hollywood. Yeah. Also the Desert Fathers is an incredible story. yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you ever that's a recommendation to look that up. Okay. Why does God allow evil and suffering to continue for a time? Again, because we have free will. People mu in order for there to be love, it must be freely chosen. But that means that free will can also be used for terrible evil as well. So all of us have fallen short of the glory of God, but because of the invitation all have been offered through Christ, God is withholding punishment for evil in order that everyone can come to repentance and not perish. So God does allow it for a time But it's not because he doesn't care, and it's not because he's not doing anything about it, but he's entering into our suffering, entering into evil, and changing it, all of those who are in Christ. So he allows it for a time, but there is a time coming when it will be no more. Mm-hmm. Okay. Does modern Israel fulfill biblical prophecy? Yes and no. God is a God of all the nations, and Israel w was God's Chosen people, that's whom the old covenant was for. So God is still reaching his people in Israel, and that is the the heartbed of our religion and our faith. I mean, how many people still travel to Israel to get closer to it? so it that's a longer question. How is it fulfilling biblical prophecy? Many ways, yes, many ways no, but like I think the church is also helping fulfill and bring the mission to the ends of the earth. Yeah. Okay. Does a third Jewish temple need to be built before Jesus returns? Again, my this is the probably second most debated one. My interpretation would be no because there hasn't been a temple for one thousand nine hundred and fifty years and fifty six years approximately, because it was destroyed in seventy AD. So they have not been able the Jewish people have not been able to make sacrifices that are required in their religion, and yet God is still out among his people, and the way that scripture speaks about it is that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Paul talks about this first Corinthians six. Don't you know that you are a temple of the Holy Spirit, that you were bought with a price? Peter describes us as living stones, that we carry the embodiment of the Spirit of God inside of us. So I I would my argument would be, and again there's room for interpretation, but my argument would be that we are the third temple because we have the Spirit of God dwelling in us, as it spirit of God dwelt in the temple. Amen. All right. Is the rapture biblical? Yes. And is a secret tretribulation rapture biblical? I don't think so. So rapture biblical, yes. Because that's the word Paul uses. Seized up, caught up. First Thessalonians four. So yes, rapture is very biblical. Jesus talks about it. One will be taken, one will be left. secret pre-tribulation, rapture biblical. I don't this is something else I've kind of discovered in reading and researching. it's a very new idea. We talked about that last episode. To me, I don't think we're called to escape the world in its pain. I think we remain until Jesus comes back. So when we're raptured, it's to usher in the kingdom of God with him. Mm-hmm. Okay. Next question. Why had most Christians never heard of pre tribulation rapture before the eighteen hundreds? short answer is it didn't exist as a theology until then. Good answer. Short answer, yeah. Yeah, g good answer. okay. Are Christians currently living in the tribulation? I believe so. Again, very much room for interpretation. I do think things will get worse before they get better because Tribulation, Paul or John says this, someone points out to me, Revelation one, verse four. I, John, your brother, writing you this letter, who am with you in the tribulation now. So the tribulation's been going on according to Revelation since that time. now that it's also described as birthing pains, birthing pains get worse before birth is given. Before the new world is born, it's gonna get worse. Yeah. But I think we're already experiencing the birthing pain, so I think we're already in tribulation. That'd be my argument. Okay. What is Armageddon? And should we expect a literal final war world war? Armageddon is not an event. It's a field in Israel. You can go visit. Yeah. should we expect a literal final world war? Mm maybe. I I mean there will be a final world war at some point, like but the the world war as we would understand it is different than I believe what scripture is teaching us in Revelation, which is the cosmic war. That's what Armageddis discussing is the cosmic war between the dragon and God and, you know, where evil is ultimately destroyed. Okay. do Christians spend eternity in heaven or is an all is our ultimate hope the new creation? Yes and no. it says in Revelation twenty-one that a new heaven and new earth. So in some ways, yes, we will be in a heaven. But it's a new heaven and earth. It's the joining of the two, the kingdom of God, the realm of God with the kingdom of humanity, the realm coming together in one. That's why it says God will dwell among his people. So so where we will spend eternity is in the new heaven and earth, the new creation, the new Jerusalem, where the world can be. We can continue building, expanding the world forever and ever. All right. let me jump down here. Or why does Revelation end with the new Jerusalem coming down rather than Christians going up? Because the the this is goes back to the idea of pre-tribulation rapture that God incarnate through Christ, Christ said the kingdom of heaven is here, as in I have come down into the world to make it new. Not to escape the hell hole, but to redo it, remake it, make it brand new. Just as he doesn't obliterate us in our sin, but he makes us new. So I would say, yeah, so that's why it focuses on the new Jerusalem rather than us just escaping it, 'cause it's all going to be made new, all things new. Mm-hmm. Okay. If you had to summarize the entire book of Revelation in one sentence, just one. Yep. What would you say? Fix your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith. I know that's Hebrews, but I think that it's the best like he's the one who's gonna make it all new. Yeah. So swear your allegiance to him alone. Amen. After all the beasts, dragons, judgment, persecution, Babylon, and spiritual warfare, what does revelation ultimately want Christians to know? That you will go through hardship. You will go through suffering, you will go through evil, you will go through natural disasters in your life. don't be surprised. Yeah. When the world acts like the world and Babylon acts like don't be surprised when politicians lie to you. Don't be surprised when the world doesn't feel very much like home. Don't be surprised by any of that. Instead, yearn for, as it talks about it in Hebrews 11, 15. For the new country that you are now a citizen of, for the homestead, the homeland that you will have forever. So wait patiently for the day when it'll all be made new in Christ. Amen. All right. I have a last question. Okay. My last question is I kind of want to go back and I wanna go back to when we first started. Now we talked about why people should read Revelation and all of that. So my last question is this. If someone is picking up it, say they've read the Bible and everything, but kind of off always stayed away from revelation, right? And most people do. How what is your recommendation? And you're not timed on this one, but what is your recommendation of books that you read for it? Yep. And also the heart posture and the mind that you would go into it with. Yeah. Let me get a list of the books. Yeah. I have on my Goodreads app. There's one like how would you tackle Revelation reading it for the first time? Yes. I would start with I'm gonna go all the way back. I'm I would start with the New Testament. Yep. Because it's a lot easier to understand than the Old Testament. I would then read the Old Testament and then I would read Revelation and see how it is joining them all together. because what it is doing is saying, hey, here's the fulfillment of Jesus. Most in the West are familiar with Jesus. Many of us are less familiar with Daniel prophecy or Ezekiel or Isaiah. We're just not as familiar with all of that. So that would be where I would start. Mm-hmm. I would also include before I get to the books, I'm still pointing them up, the Bible project. Incredibly helpful. Incredibly helpful. Find reputable theologians who are not selling you anything. I would say that. this is a book that because there's so much fear around it, people have monetized it, which I have very strong feelings about. Bible Project is free. I think they've been tested and tried and found to be more than tried and true. Yep, exactly, more than tried and true. I would find good commentaries, good books. I would find strong leaders to surround yourself with on this. So I would say we've got one of them is my goodness, I can't find the book, but that's all right. One of the books that I read I found very helpful is What Should Christians Think About Israel? And there was a number of Judeo. Christian authors who contributed different chapters. That was a gift from Rabbi Tuvia to myself when tackling some of those questions. Yeah. Another was called Revelation for Us and Revelation for You. So there's actually two different books. Revelation for no Revelation for Everyone was by N. T. Wright. Very helpful, world renowned theologian, little heady, Revelation for You was I I thought the most easily understood book. to say, okay, that makes sense. Like, you know, putting it in terms that are incredibly biblical but also can translate to American culture and language. And then there's another one called Four Views. That's the one I was really looking for. Four Views by Steve Gregg, where if you're gonna take a lens to read and interpret the book of Revelation, you have to choose from four views. One is on millennialism, premillennialism, post or yeah, postmillennialism, and then I'm blanking on the fourth one. But don't jump around, say, now they're talking about this view. Now they're talking about that view. Like choose a consistent scriptural view. So that one was by far the most academic, but I found it very helpful as well. It would literally lay out all four views on one page and then just go verse by verse. So but I would say, yeah, it it is intimidating if all you have is your Bible and your brain. Yeah. Because you're gonna project onto it things you didn't even realize you were projecting. You're gonna project on fear, you're gonna project on maybe your church background, you're gonna project onto it what you've seen in media. And yeah, it can feel very scary. Yeah. But if you have helpful guides that will combat the emotional side and you can read it rationally and understand, like, this is actually not something to be afraid of, but something to be excited about, then you can read it for how it was meant to be written and helps you understand the world. Amen. Well, we thank you all for tuning in wherever you are in this season two of Revol Season Two of the Point Church Podcast. of that we tackled Revelation. We have a exciting next chapter for season three. that will be coming out. I don't know when, but stay tuned to that. again we encourage you the the sermons will be posted every week so you still can hear the sermons every week and everything else. But we are just so grateful that we get to do this and got to dive into this one and just mix it up a little bit. So tackle revelation. Nice easy subject. Absolutely. Yeah. So thank you again for tuning in and we'll see you next time here at the Point Church Podcast.