Apologetics Series 2024 - Part 3: The Problem Of Evil | Samuel Nesan & Andy Yeoh

Hey there, you're listening to the Generation's Church podcast. We pray that the

word of God today will challenge, change and channel you into your God given

destiny. Now let's get started. So today we're gonna deal with something called

the problem of evil. And the problem evil is basically this problem. It's

called a problem because it's a struggle. Uh. There is a conflict,

and as human beings, we find difficulty in reconciling some of these what we

know as come to accept, come to accept as facts or truth that we

grow up learning. Okay, Like, for example, we we've learned that

God is God is good. You know, if there is a God,

this being called God has to be good, right, it can't be evil.

It can't be God and not good. So we know that we serve

as a very good God. Uh. And we know also from the Bible

that God is love. He's all loving God. Everything he does he does

out of love. So if these two things are true, if God is

good and God is loved, then I think the struggle is why is there

so much evil and pain and suffering in the world? Because that is also

true. Right, we turn on the news, we see suffering, we

see wars, we read about even innocent babies, you know, maybe stricken

with disease or killed. At times, we read about rape, and we

read about robbery and all this injustice in the world. Is it possible that

we have this God? And not only is God good and love, he's

also supposed to be all powerful, which means he is in total and full

control, which means he can stop the evil that is happening. But he

seems to be doing nothing about it. Right, So therefore, many scholars

or throughout the ages, people call this a problem. This is a problem,

and we want to deal with that today. I would like to present

at least three foundational things before we move on, uh, and then we'll

see where we go after that, maybe two three three plus three three three

plus two three foundational things and two responses to it, and then we'll see

where we go from there. Okay, okay, okay. So number one

that means, how what kind of method? How do we apply our thinking

to this problem? So we're gonna we're gonna try and solve this problem today,

right, the problem of evil? If God is good, why is

that evil? If God is loving? Why is that evil? If youve

got's all powerful why did you stop it? Right? How do we solve

this? And we must come from a particular presupposition of particular angle, right,

so as to suggest and propose three methods or three angles to your number

one is because the Bible is truth. I hope we can accept that that

that there are no problem passages in the Bible. That there's no passages in

the Bible, no scripture, no verses in the Bible that is problematic,

that is lacking, that is insufficient. Every passage in the Bible is truth

and sufficient, is it okay? So when we have a problem, in

other words, when we when there is a problem, the problem is not

with the world of God. So that means yes, the Bible talks about

violence, particularly the Old Testament, lots and lots of violence. You know,

something is so bizarre you wonder whether it's true or not. All right,

Okay, that's one favorite one where I think it was Elishah and a

bunch of young boys called him bald, and he got so angry or something.

He sort of commanded the best to come out of the wall, and

the back kind of devoured the boys. Yeah, so it's pretty violent.

So wow, if there's such passage in the Bible. You know, it's

the Bible the problem. We're trying to establish that there is no problem with

the Bible. If there is a problem, the problem is either our comprehension.

That means, uh, I don't quite understand why this is in the

Bible. I don't quite understand why this is out in the Bible. I

don't quite understand why this is written that way. That is the problem our

understanding or our submission to it is the problem of our comprehension and our submission.

Okay. Now, just because we don't understand something doesn't make it untrue.

Yes, And just because we cannot agree with something also doesn't make it

doesn't make it untrue. You may not agree that I'm handsome. Doesn't change

the fact that I'm handsome, thank you. And you may find it very

hard to understand. No, so well, that escalated really quick. Ah,

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact. Agree or you don't agree,

except you okay, all right. Crue first contents to sixteen says,

for who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?

But we have the mind of Christ. So with Christ, holy speak can

help us understand but you know, on our own, our finite mind just

cannot contain it in finding God. That's that's the basic of it. Okay.

Secondly, as we try to solve this problem, what angle, what

foundation are we standing on? Number two? That there is a there,

there's a need to recognize that there is a distinction. God is the creator.

We are creatures. God is the potter. We are the clay.

We are we are lumps of clay. That the potter has every right to

shape us into any shape he wants. Amen, you want to shape us

into a bowl of vast whatever. So there is this distinction. Right,

we cannot claim to be God, we cannot claim to take his place.

So we must acknowledge this distinction as we try to understand or try to solve

this problem of evil, or in fact any other problem. Uh Daniel four

of us thirty five. All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,

And he does according to his will among the holes of heaven and among

the inheritance of the earth, and none none can stay his hand or say

to him, what have you done. He's the He's God. We are

not. He's the creator, Creator, we are his creation. Porter clay,

there is such a distinction. Amen, just want to add on to

this. What's fascinating about this passage is that this passage was actually written by

Nabukan as a Ah. This is this is not written by any regular Jewish

person. This was written by King nabook and as a who's supposed to be

the king that destroyed God's temple. And by the time God was dealt with

him, he concludes that, yeah, you know what, God can do

whatever he wants. He can take me and put me on the throne,

he can throw me down, he can make me into an animal, which

God pretty much did and and ultimately God has the freedom as the creator.

And a lot of times we use words like human rights in reference to God,

as if these rights come from our own autonomy. That's not true.

We don't have these rights inherent, whatever remote rights. We have our rights

that He has given to us. So apart from him, we really have

no rights to say I want equality. Shouldn't work with God that way,

that's right, or even when we exclaim it isn't it isn't fair. It's

not fair, as if fairness is determined by our own measurement, what is

fair? What is not okay. Thirdly, in our quest to solve this

problem, the foundation we stand on is that it is essential to use the

Bible. You use the Bible to define our terminology, meaning what is evil?

What is good? Right? I think you wrote in your paper.

I remember you asked the question, is a blunt knife good? That's right,

it's a blunt knife good a bad. Let's take a few seconds to

kind of like process there. It's a blunt knife good, a bad.

Now, if you use the blunt knife to cut meat in your kitchen,

Joshua, it's a bad knife because a blunt knife can't cut two me.

But if you use a blat knife to say, I don't know what would

you use a blat knife for? It was for decoration, then decoration might

be good because you don't want your children to touch it or accidentally, you

know, cause it to fall on and cut the Then you you know,

to cut your toes, so you will wish it wasn't a sharp knife.

So it's a black knife good or bad? It depends, right, So

when it comes to terms like good, evil, love, justice, Just

to pick up on that the black knife, you said, what thing you're

really interesting? You said, is that it depends whether the blunt knife is

good or not. The question is what does it depend on? Depend on

what? Yeah? Or who? Yeah? And the question is the creator.

The creator has a purpose, a intention for creating that knife, and

if the knife can live up to the purpose, it's a good knife.

The knife it's purpose, it's a bad knife. Even if knife cry,

wait, I never heard anyone, I've never harmed anyone. Why am I

bad? Well, you're meant to cut. So the creator determines our purpose.

Yes, and we either live up to that purpose, by which we

are judged as good, or we fail that purpose on the basis of which

we are rightly called bad. But either way, the created thing does not

get to define its own purpose from its own perspective. That would be rather

wrong. Yes, so there will be the three foundations we stand on right

that there are no problem position in the Bible. If there's a problem,

it's with an understanding or our submission to what God is saying. That means

the Bible may say something that we don't like, but it doesn't matter what

we like, it matter what God said. Secondly, is we need to

recognize and accept that there is a distinction between the creator and its creation his

creation right went on on the same level, and thirdly that when we when

we seek to define these terms good, evil, love, justice, is

fair. All this must be done based depends on the Bible. The Bible

defines these terms, and then we submit to it or we don't. All

right, quick quote next light, Uh, Jared Brock uh said this left

to our own devices, we will make God in our own image. Uh.

That could be very well, what's happening in our world today because we

seem to be taking back the definitions that we define what love is, we

define what justice, if we define gender, we define what's right, what's

wrong, what's fair. So it's it's a very dangerous place to be,

all right, So let's move on. We're just setting this up. So

let's revisit the objection or the problem. Okay, Basically, anyone who has

a struggle is basically saying this, right. God is all powerful. He's

in control. He can stop whatever he wants to stop, start whatever we're

gonna start, do whatever he wants. He's all powerful. God is also

all loving and all goods. That's all he is. That's who he is.

God is love and God is good, so we also know that for

a fact, evil and suffering do exist. We see it everywhere. Hence

lie the problem, how can this all be true at all? At the

same time, you know, based on our logy, something must go.

And since even since I can't see God but I can see evil, the

atheists will say God must not exist. Yeah, it's it's either point one

or point two. Therefrom ust go because we feel evil and we experience evil.

Yes. Now, what's fascinating is that this question was actually developed,

not lately, but actually developed even before Jesus. The Greek philosopher Epicurus was

the one that formulated this question. If God is good and all powerful,

why is that evil? Maybe God is good enough that he genuinely wants to

eradicate the world of evil, but it's just not powerful enough, in which

case it's not all powerful. Or maybe he has the power, then he's

not good enough because then he has the power to get rid of evil,

but evil is still here. So which is it? It's a question that

actually goes even before Jesus was born. Wonderful. Okay, let's see,

so I like to quickly not offer two quick explanations and then as we deal

with the questions, I think we'll go deep poin into is that good?

Is that good place to start? So before set mentions it, I'll mention

it myself. I wrote a paper uh uh dealing with this next part because

I I I told you last week that I myself struggle with this issue because

there has been suffering in our lives, in our personal lives, and UH

just can't reconcile. How can a good God uh do such things? Uh?

And so my my people is on one of these explanations uh and and

explore that. So if you are interested, I'll share that later. But

there's two possible explanations that a Christian or a person who believes in God a

theist can offer uh to this question of evil, right uh, and it

can be under can be summarized this way. One is the free will defense,

meaning the reason that is evil in the world is because there is free

will that God has given human beings free will starting from ed and if and

basically humans messed up. We abused our free will and instead of doing good

with it, we decided to do some, decided to take the fruit,

decided to obey, disobey God, and because we exercise our free will to

do bad as a punishment. As a consequence, evil came it to a

work in We in woke evil. We cost evil because of our scein evil

happens. So, in other words, self inflicted, self inflicted. So

if something bad happens in your life, and this is your understanding, you

probably explained this way, like, okay, I met an accident, I

must have done something wrong. Or remember the blind men blind born blind from

birth? The disciples asked Jesus, Jesus, this man was one blind who

sinned? Was did he sin? Or did his parents sinned? No,

he's born blind, so he's never watched porn ever you got I'm saying,

right, are you uncomfortable? I mean, he's born blind, he's never

he's never seen anything. So these are perplex like who sinned this guy?

Or maybe he's a curse it's for the four generation cursed or something right,

And then Jesus answered very interestingly, he said, neither the men sin nor

his parents. Now our don't beliegious actually meant they are perfect and there's no

sin in them. He's just giving another explanation for this particular case. This

particular case direct result of this. Yes, he said, this happened so

that the works of God can be reviewed, which is now points to the

uh kind of clue in into the next explanation. Okay, so if you

believe in God, if you don't accept the free will explanation, Oh,

evil even is caused by our own wrongdoing. We caused it, We invoked

it. We invited evil into our lives, into the world as our fault.

We are responsible, we are culpable. All you may say, another

person may say, well, it's it's because of the greater good. That

means in summary, God is sovereign, He's the creator with the creature.

We said it earlier. We can't begin to fully understand God's mind and why

he does certain things. And so it is possible that God allowed certain bad

for very good reasons that we don't understand yet. Yeah. For example,

someone might see death as a very ultimate evil. Oh no, that person

was praying for healing, and God has all the power to heal this person.

But instead healing this person, he altos the person to die. Anyway.

Oh, that's the ultimate evil. How can he removed this person from

us? But when we stop to consider this explanation, and it could be

that death is the ultimate healing, that this person who is now crossover to

eternity, he'll never forestick again, he'll never suffer again. There's no pain

for example, right, So death could be a form of healing that God

chooses. But we may not understand aye so painful to separate so far again,

so we may offer one of these explanations and we can go deeper into

it. I'm pretty sure we will have to touch on it as we answer

certain questions. Let me distinguisher between these two to just to help put it

so if you go to the next slide, what is different between the free

will defense? Now, just to keep in mind, a defense is something

that you use to show that the three statements you saw earlier, if God

is all good, if God is all powerful, why is there so much

evil in the world. A defense is what you use essentially to kind of

just destroy that objection. You're not trying to answer the question, You're trying

to explain why the objection doesn't work. So, for example, if you

could simply say God has good reasons for permitting evil in the world. Now,

as long as that's logically possible, that itself will diffuse the entire objection

that God and evil are somehow incompatible with one another. Now we realize that

God may have good reasons for allowing evil to happen. But then when you

dig deeper, here's where these two views differ. On a free will defense,

like Pastor Andy said, they ultimately are blaming human beings. That's saying

that human beings messed up. God gave us free will, and ultimately we

chose to we chose to abuse the free will. On the other hand,

so just to put this, I want to distinguish between these two terms.

Say you've got human culpability. Culpability means blame worthiness, right, So on

the other hand, you've got human responsibility, which means who is the ultimate

pass right. So if you take the free will view, what you're essentially

saying is human beings are blameworthy and ultimately human beings are also the cause.

So in that sense, it's the self inflicted view, self inflicted pain view.

Now what's different about the greater good one is that the greater good defense

also affirms human culpability, which means both these views never blame God for suffering

in the world. But the difference is this the greater Good defense holds God

responsible for evil. What it means is that ultimately evil in the world is

something that God chose to bring upon. It was God's choice, it was

God's intent. Now God is not to be blamed because he's all powerful,

but ultimately the greater Good says God chows it to happen in this way so

that for some greater good that He has chosen. Now that's why that view

becomes very emotionally past the endy people struggle with that emotionally, but just wanted

to flash this out so that we kind of wrestle, I mean, we

kind of dealing with this wrestle with these two different views. All right,

Uh, there must be good in order to recognize or experience bad or evil.

I guess it also works their way around for a proposalities question, right,

So you can't have one without the other kind of thing. Right to

know, relief is to no pain. Okay. So the question is that

if that's true, is God allowing it because it's free human free will or

and it's human free will and therefore he will come and judge us in the

end times. So basically it's tart to ask, is it because of free

will? And will we be judged at the ends In the end, I

love to take this because, first of all, I want to say I

strongly disagree with at least the original assumption of the question that if there is

good, there must be evil. Well, they say that that's pretty much

Taoism. It's dualism that you know, you have the young, you must

have the young, you know, it's it's it's that sort of thing.

Now, we deny dualism, the idea that you know that these two are

equal opposites, that they because you see, if that's what it is,

then if good exists for eternity, which we believe because God is good,

evil too must exist for eternity because they can with evil. But I think

that's not true because I think you can say that God is good without reference

to evil. And so the big question then comes to how do you even

make that judgment? Well, I think there are two ways to explain this.

Number One, we must realize that when we talk about good, we're

talking about a spectrum. What do I mean? There is something called the

ultimate one hundred percent good, which it's in In other words, good you

cannot improve upon right, think of the ultimate maximum good. That's God.

Right, you cannot get gooder than God is. See what I did there

so well, in that sense to be evil, to be evil is not

Yeah, that's right. Remember that to be evil is not to be zero

percent good. There is no such thing as zero percent good. To be

evil would be to be ninety nine percent good. That's a small evil,

ten percent good, very big evil. But ultimately you cannot have zero percent

evil because ultimately, all evil is a you know, it's all evil ultimately

is a privation of the good or a falling shot of the glory of God.

That's what it is. So someone says Adolf Hitler was the most evil

person to ever exist. You cannot get more evil than that. I beg

to differ. I think Hitler could have kicked his dog one more time,

right, he could have done worse. Right, there's something that Hitler could

have done to make himself even worse. He was not as evil as he

possibly could be, and that goes down to God's restraining grace. So all

that to say, number one, think of evil like a privation. Think

of it like a tear in a shirt or a rust on car, and

an old car. What happens if you take away to from the car good

car? What happens if you take the car from the rust, but you

have an empty parking lot? Is what you have? Right? If you

take the tear away from the shirt, you repair the tear, you have

a good shirt. What happens if you take the shirt away from the tear,

you have an empty hanger? Just a hanger there, Right, that's

all you have. Because the point is the evil cannot exist without a good,

but the good can exist without the evil. That that's how we respond

to it. There's a question that was asked the first week that's being brought

back this week, and we say that this would be appropriate week to answer

that for about it, and it's it's it's again, it's I think it's

more emotional than than than intellectual, maybe because I think people go to this

right, But the questions read this way. How can we accept that that

they are good, loving people, very kind people in our lives and you

know they will you mentioned hell just now and or not not going to heaven.

How can we accept that good loving, kind people, just because they're

not Christian they will end up in hell? How can we accept that.

How do you deal with that one of the most terrifying Did I ever say

this the last time I was here? One of the most terrifying doctrines in

all of Scripture? Did I say this? I don't think so? The

most I did, right, what is the most terrifying doctrine in all of

Scripture? God is good. That's the most terrifying doctrine in all because we're

not good, And because we're not good, the greatest enemy of a wicked

person is a good and just God. Because God is love, Hell is

there. Because God is holy, Hell is there. You have a God

who is corrupt and unjust, you will not have help. You would have

a God that condones all the evil in the world and just takes it as

it is. But because the God we serve is holy, hell must exist.

It is a necessity with a God who is holy. But here's where

the Bible says, mercy triumphs over judgment because He's not only just and holy

love. He sent his son to take on a place that we deserve to

take. The Son of God drank the same cup that you and I ought

to have drank. Imagine Jesus sweating drops of blood at the very thought,

not the suffering, but the thought of being separated from the Father in judgment

for a short time, for a few hours. He was going to be

separated from the Father in judgment in his human nature, and that very thought

causes him to sweat drops of blood. Friends, they're going to be people

who spend eternity separated from God. I mean, if they knew what was

facing them, they would be sweating way more than just blood drops of blood.

So my point is this, because God is loved, because God is

good. Hell is that necessity? And if you look at a cross of

Jesus Christ and all you see is the Father's love with mister point, the

cross stands as a symbol of a just and holy God. If that's what

he will do to his son, of whom he said, you are my

son, whom I loved in you are well pleased if that's what he would

do to his son, so much so did the sun Christ, my God,

my God, why have you forsaken me? If that's what would do

to the Sun, what would he do to sinful, rebellious sinners that refused

to turn to his grace and continue to reject his mercy? I do not

want to even contemplate that possibility if I can just stretch it and add on

to that, and I just want to bring it down to a human level,

right, for example, Like, here's the question do we do we

do? We all want love? Right? Love is a good thing?

Yes, love is a wonderful things. A song I don't know, Okay,

I'm sure there's many songs like that. Love love, Love is a

good thing, right, uh? And one love? We all it's all

about love these days. And uh, I think next we're going to talk

about progressive Christianity. And one of the one of the ethoughts of progressive Christianity

is just love. Love wins as long as it's love wonderful. But here's

the question, right, do we really want love without morality? Because we

love is being redefined in our world? Right, if it feels good?

Why are you stopping me? I'm not harming anybody, you know. Yeah,

he's just he's another guy. I'm a guy. And but there's love

and can't be wrong. Why are you judging me? Do you really want?

Do we really want love without morality or without justice or without truth?

So just take a moment to imagine this imagine everybody everybody mentioned this. Okay,

imagine your parents not keeping a promise. I will be there because I

love you, and then they're not there. They break their promise. Feel

that pain. Imagine a loved one husband, I love you, darling,

I will never have another. You're the only one for me love, but

then break step promise becomes unfaithful, cheats on you. Can you feel that

pain? Now, record that pain in your heart, because that's the pain

of love. Without morality, it's easy to love, love, love,

love, But when it happens here, oh, a love one not keeping

the promise, for example, breaks their promise, cheats. That's love,

but without morality, we can't have that. It has to be he has

to hand in hand morality. Justice sustains love. It is what makes love

love. Otherwise love is not love. And so I know it's painful,

but we can't have one without the other. And with God both of those

are equally yes, all right, So I hope that answers the question we

brought it back from week number one. Okay, this is an interesting one

here. He's beady, I don't know's the only person with the initial not

who bed is brother than okay or brandy. Why why doesn't God punished evil

today like he did in the Old Testament, Like you know, Israelites punished

in the mostest time city turned to stone or sand. God floods the world.

Why doesn't God do that kind of stuff today? You mean he's not

flooding the world again. No, you're right, there's a difference in the

Old Testament. The Old Testament, he flooded the world with water. Have

you read the Book of Revelation. He's flooding the world with the lake of

fire. I'm not sure if you have a preference which one you want to

go for, But frankly, I'll choose water any day, right, I

love to see so. But on a serious note, the God of the

Old Testament. If you're wondering why you don't see that expression in today,

the slaughter of so many people that were described as the enemies of God in

the Old Testament, think of the In the Old Testament, it says if

you commit adultery, stone the person. Put a person there and stone them

to death. That's brutal punishment. If you a person commits murder, stone

the person. That we can understand if a person is you know practice as

sexually morality, stone the person. That's the tone of the Old Testament,

Stone brutal punished, that's the tone. And then New Testament we are preaching

grace all the time. And so some people see a disconnect. And here's

how you resolve that. You go to the server of the Mount where Jesus

addresses the issues that merit capital punishment in the Old Testament, issues like adultery.

What does Jesus say adultery is in Matthew chapter six, five to six.

What does he say adultery is chapter five? Actually, if you you

look at someone with lustful intent, you've already committed adultery. Now, I'm

not going to answer show of hands, but I'll be surprised if there's one

person here who can say I've never looked at someone lustfully my entire life,

I'll be surprised. Right. But here's the thing. According to Jesus's standard,

what does that make all of us adulterous? Has anyone here tolder not

toler lie before? If you say yes, that that that means you've already

proven my point. Right? If there's if all of us have lied,

what does that make us lying adulterous? Right? Have you taken anything?

Have I taken anything that doesn't belong to me before, whether it's pirate or

DVD or anything like that, or were Malaysians? Sure? What does that

makers lying adulterous thieves? Right? And I can go on down that list.

Jesus says, if you hate someone, you've committed murder. That makes

us murderous, lying adulters. You get the point. It's pretty bad.

And that means all of us, according to Jesus's standards, deserve capital punishment

and the beauty of the Gospel. And you say, why doesn't God do

that to us today? Yeah, the second person on the Trinity went down.

He took the punishment on himself. And because of that, the same

God that prescribed judgment and brutality in the Old Testament now reaches out his hands

and say, I'm giving you mercy. Someone took your place for you in

that stony. That person is Jesus Christ. Praise be to God. Amen.

Amen. With with that. With that, I'll lead to this question.

Someone asks, I'm glad this question was asked. How can learning about

the problem or evil help me in my Christian life? And I think,

what you just said just a basic appreciation for the gospel. All I would

say, brother, you need to suffer like the rest of us. Do

you understand that? But anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean

yeah. Maybe maybe maybe you think artist is too technical and what is all

these things? And I just live my life. It's fine. What do

we need to learn this? You know, listen something else? No,

I think it's pretty important. I think maybe you've had a pretty good life

or is while maybe you're three year old. I don't know who's asking this

question, but if you live long enough, you know you you will face

this question. Even if you don't know you're facing the question. Maybe you

really put putting these words. But you know, if you ever asked why

me, you're like, Oh, last Monday, I played foot salt and

the one time I forget my socks long. Usually you have long socks,

right, Uh. I always have one spad sox in my car, but

it's not a football sox. Now I do. So I've got one football

socks now at the back of my car, and I got one normal socks

in the front glove compartment so that I'm always prepared. So I didn't have

my football socks and I only got my shot one and I wore that and

of all days, I'm running at full speed trying to get the ball,

and this defender he was wearing Arsenal Arsenal shirt. It's not me, It

was not me, all these Arsenal people. I was running at full speed

and because he can't catch up with me, he just kind of just push

push me. While I'm running a full speed. I flew and I landed

on the ground. I just scratched my entire like so it's like you see

my Instagram or if you ah knows, Yeah, the table blocked me from

saying, but I'm pressure it was bad. Yeah, And I kind of

forget the point of why story story, you suffered, suffered? Have you

suffered? This is my point? I mean, I remember my point.

O bring my point up again. But you know, things happen. Things

happened, and and and I don't know if to answer this question, how

does it help me in my Christian life? A genuine appreciation for the Gospel

to understand that, wow, there's just a lot of bad happening in the

world, but God is good. And because He is good, I can

trust this guy. I I he's got my back and no matter what,

like like Joe, I mean like job experience, I think a lot worse

than we experienced. And yet he refused to curse God. He questioned God,

he had debates we got. Of course, he lost every one of

those debates because he couldn't answer God because God pretty much said, I'm creator,

you creature. You don't know what's going on, so just leave it

to me, right, And so I think it gives perspective to our faith.

Now. It may not always bring comfort and relief to the pain.

It's not a panet all, it's not parisittamol, it's not whatever brand you

for them all, but at least it gives you perspective. I wouldn't even

say it gives you understanding. Ah yeah, yeah, yeah. God is

good. So now I understand why he's pain. You may not understand,

but you have perspective that okay, God is He has good reasons for allowing

this. And like we unpacked the box today, that way unpacking, and

there's a gift inside. And maybe there's a lot of layers that we need

to buel through as we study the word of God. But if we patiently

puil up those layers, we will find the gift that God has prepared for

us. And according to Paul, the gift is Christ himself. The gift

is not just a big paycheck. Oh, it says why God is doing

this to me so that I can none of those material things any day?

Policy is you know, I put I can't remember that. The upward calling

is basically saying, the price is Christ himself. That maytain Christ. And

I think it's pretty important why we have to learn this, And of course

this also helps with our evangelism because your friends may be asking or maybe challenging,

if your God is so good, why is this all is happening?

He might he must not exist, uh. And you know, learning this

will give us a way of at least defending, if not explaining. Now

I was not I was. We were Actually you know the story because we

discussed us in our sessions as well, that there was a former pastor by

the name of Pepper Live some of you may know him, uh, that

actually lost his faith because of suffering that he saw, and today's came one

of the leading atheist figures in Malaysia. So I'm a pastor and of course

we had a privilege of I had a privilege of engaging with him in a

debate in Penang in city like church in Penang and just dealing with the Christian

is the Christian God evil? He's hurting. At the end of the debate,

he was in tears because it's it's something that that's I mean, it

causes people to lose your faith, and yeah, I just want to say

that it's something that can help. It can cause us to even start to

question the goodness of God. Okay, let's deal with this one because I

think a lot of the questions kind of like if you were listening in some

parts of the answer is there? But does God this one? Does God

put challenges meaning suffering or evil, evil experiences? Does God put challenges in

our life to test us? Is that a test? Is all? It's

the terrific gem I go through. There's a challenge from God or you know,

uh, difficult anti art, that's a challenge from God to test me,

to test me. So it's a test I must pass somehow. There

is a right response in a wrong response or like oh I lost my job,

I is a test from God. What would you say today? I

mean, the Bible clearly says that God tests us, but he does not

tempt us himself, although the Bible does say he can lead us into temptation.

Right, So Lord's prayer says lead us not into temptation, which means

that God doesn't tempt us, but he can cause us to be tempted,

a good example being Jesus Christ who led Jesus to the wilderness to be tempted

Holy Spirit. Right, so God can leader us into temptation. But testing,

I think Genesis twenty two we see that Abraham was tested, and I

think God tests us to prove our faith, not to him. He already

knows the level of our faith. Faith is a gift of God. Ephicients

too was eight to ten. But I think the testing is for us to

be firmly rooted in Him, that when we see the faith manifested amidst trials,

it brings about a faith that is ultimately pleasing to God. And I

want to cite for you Romans five, who was three to five. If

any chance we could have that on the screen, that would be fantastic.

Romans chapter five was three to five says something so powerful, for we rejoice

in suffering. Did Paul just say we rejoice in suffering. Yes, he

did, for we rejoice in suffering for suffering producers character and character producers perseverance

and produce perseverance producers. Hope letes it not say that. And we know

that in all this the love of God is manifested in our hearts. So

Paul says, if we truly understand this, we would rejoice in suffering itself,

not in a satistic way. I don't think Paul was going hahas he

suffered. I don't think that's what's happening. I think what he's doing is

he's rejoicing at the fruits of what suffering brings. And so likewise God does

testers. But the testing is to grow us so that we have more patience.

And so the point of all this is that if you ever pray to

God, God give me more patience, you know what to expect. Yes,

a younger brother, Okay, there's a big one. I'm trying to

reselve for later. Let me see. Uh, okay, cool, you're

remember to vote if you really want to push a question up. Okay,

that will help us. Okay. Yeah. When my feelings and the Bible

come into conflict, I struggle to accept it. What can be done?

Wow? Uh, that's okay, okay, So so yeah, yeah,

I know, but I'm trying to be kind and and and and trying to

be pastoral. And that's the difference between a pastor and apologies. I can

just tell it as it is because I'm not After this month, you probably

won't be I don't know where again. But the pastor has to see you

every week, So sorry, please go ahead. Okay. So when your

feelings are in complete with the Bible meaning, I'm guessing you're involved in something

that the Bible clearly is prohibiting or has a different way of explaining, right

and so, and then you feel in conflict. You feel like ah,

if the Bible had not said that, or like what you mean, that's

it. That's the reason why I can't accept that? Is that the reason

why I lost this person? What can be done? So let's make this

practical. I think, first of all, I think I shared in disesearch

before that Christianity is not a Christianity that is not a religion or a faith

that rejects or prohibits questioning. I think it's I think it's healthy that you

question. It's healthy that you're like, is it really what the Bible says?

Do I really have to accept this? I think God is not.

God is not nervous about your question. He's not like look at Joe.

You can give God a million questions and he'll be like and God would probably

answer with another question. Likely, so that seemed to be his style.

But it's okay to question. I think. I think I want to address

that first and foremost because I feel like, or I observe that many Christians

in many churches and make the feel like if you question, you are unfaithful.

If you question, then you are you have doubt, and therefore you're

not even Christian. With the disciples, when they saw Jesus with their own

eyes touch his hand before he put their finger through the hole in his palm,

the Bible says they worship him, but some doubted. So among these

apostles who received the great commission directly from from the Commissioner himself, even they

doubted. And I and we've learned from the first week like every word in

the Bible is there for a reason, for a purpose, And I think

that's little three words. But some doubted. Is therefore people like me for

people like some of you who ask this question, like, Okay, I'm

worshiping Jesus here right now, but I've got a few questions God. I

think that's okay. I think first of all, ask those questions. But

of course directions, questions have directions. We learn words have direction, right,

which either your words are moving in the direction of life or your words

are moving direction of death. Right. What your words cannot do is that

your work is not moving U. There is no neutrality. You're either going

with this way or this way. I think questions are the same thing because

questions are formed by words. So it's a question in the direction of I

want to know God more, I want to honor Him. That it leads

me towards worship of Him, then those questions will lead to a good place.

If your question is that I just want to get away from God,

this is my okay. Finally I found the reason not to come to church

anymore or not to prey then dangerous place. So what can be done?

Ask us questions. That's why this church we end with a dialogue, because

it's a good like, it's a safe pace to ask those questions. Secondly,

you're not alone, and that's why it's practical. It's very practical to

deal with those questions and struggle with somebody, preferably somebody more motual in the

faith. So like I wouldn't be struggling this and asking my son. My

son asked me questions and I work through with him. But okay, if

to say that, so, sometimes children can teach you a lot about God

that adults cannot. Right, my son has taught me a few things about

God that I'm like, oh wow, Like he asked me a simple question.

First, Daddy jonahs a prophet, right yeah, and prophet speak on

behalf of God, right yeah? So why is he running away? Simple?

Pop? One minute? Someone I repented. I'm like, yes,

God, okay, Lord, God, thank you Jesus. I will listen

to you. My six year old son, he asked me this when he

was six. So yeah, deal with it with somebody because it's healthy.

Uh. If it's just you and your Internet and your Google. Uh,

and you know you're endless watching of YouTube and there's no real person. I'm

not saying you have to talk to me as a pastor. I'm not saying

if you go and talk to Semination, who is an apologies intellectual PhD and

a PhDd. Okay, you don't have permanent hey damage yet. Okay,

uh, okay, but what with other Christians? So I'm more mature deal

with that. Don't ignore the question. Don't know how to struggle. But

I am hoping if you're asking what can I do, I'm hoping that that

will lead to this hunger, this desire to know to know the Word of

God. Because we said earlier we can't really deal with all this away apart

from the world of God. So if you're searching on YouTube for some motivational

Christian speaker to help relieve your pain, you probably have relief for that moment.

But ultimately, if you want truth, you've got to go back to

the Word of God, as uncomfortable as it may be. Is that all

right? I hope that's practical and that's something you can work with. Cool

you're wanna add to that or something? No, But I mean, since

you since you walked right through the Great Commission, sure I'll say that this

one is the unfiltered answer. Okay, So well, if you ever happen

to know what God now, this is different. If you're struggling with it,

Okay, I'm not talking about those who are struggling. I'm talking about.

If you know this is what God says and I just have a difference

of opinion, then I'm wrong. It's as simple as that, rights,

That's well, that's that's what it is. Now the great commission, pastor,

and he mentioned a great commission. So I'll just briefly state this and

we'll move to the next question. Matthew twenty eight was eighteen nineteen and twenty.

Deal with a Great Commission Matthew Chapter twenty eight was eighteen nineteen and twenty.

It says, all authority under heaven and earth has been given to me.

Therefore go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of

the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them

to do all that I've commanded you. And it says, behold, I'm

with you always, even to the end of the age. But notice he

says that teaching them to do all that I've commanded you, So true Christianity,

true discipleship involves guiding a person to and granted there will be pushbacks,

there will be struggles, but ultimately the goal is to obey all the Christ

has said. Or so you've got eight minutes, let's do with some big

ones and see how So I'm trying to summarize some of these questions because they

around the same thing. So basically, it's about predestination, it's about free

will, okay, so so so so uh so I'm just going to quickly

uh run through these questions because they're about the same thing. So basically,

if there is no free will, I think I think someone maybe heard what

I said as I'm saying there is no free will. Uh So, if

there's no such thing as that, why are we didn't judge by our actions?

How can we be held accountable for our actions? All my actions are

actually due to God supremunity, the meaning suggesting that, oh I did it's

because God made me do it. So if that's if that's true, then

why am I being judged for something I'm totally okay? So that so,

of course that will lead to the whole predestination question. Like so since I

have no control whatsoever. God is control of everything, even my choices,

then who can get safe? How do I know what I we say?

And if it doesn't matter? So we're dealing with this, so do maybe

once yes, yes, should be while we're at it, just throwing a

third one. This is a package, you know, Just yes and deal

with the question of unfairness. And if there's no free will, it's unfair,

right, So let's just deal with all three while we're at it.

If please turn, you need your bibles open for this one. Let's go

to Roman chapter nine, and I wish I had time to take you through

this Roman chapter seven onwards, but due to time, let me just deal

with Romans chapter nine, which by the way, addresses word for word the

question that was raised just now. So let's go to Romans chapter nine,

and I want to start by looking at Worse ten and I'll tell you where

this is. Romans chapter nine, Worse ten onwards. It's deals with the

story of two sons born at the exact same time from one father, Isaac.

These are twins, Jacob and Esau. And let's see what the script

is and it will come to that question. Paul is going to raise that

same question. If God predested everything and I have no free will, why

am I being judged? It's unfair? So let's read it and we'll go

worse by worse here real quick. Romans chapter nine, verse ten. And

not only so, but when Rebecca had conceived children by one man of fore

father Isaac. Pay attention to this verse eleven, though they were not yet

born, and nothing either good or bad. In order that God's purpose of

election by continue not because of works, but because of Him who calls.

She was told the older will serve the younger guys. Ready for verse thirteen,

as it is written, Jacob, I love Esau, I hated.

Who is the idea God? Verse fourteen? What shall we say? Then?

Is there injustice on God's part? By no means? Why not?

He says Ver's fifteen. For he says to Moses, I will have mercy

on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I

will have compassion. That's what we talked about earlier. The Potter's freedom verse

sixteen. Now verse sixteen is going to be talking about the free will.

Verse sixteen says, So then it depends not on human will or exertion,

but on God, who has mercy verse seventeen. For the Scripture says to

Pharaoh for this very purpose, I have raised you up that I might show

my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the

earth verse eighteen. So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and

he hardens whomever he wills. Now comes to your question again, what about

ten that case, then why are you judging me? You ordered everything?

I have no will? That's EXAs exactly what Paul says verse nineteen. You

will say to me that why does he still find fault? For who can

resist his will? Paul here gives us four questions which are meant to answer

this question Number one Verse twenty But who are you or man to answer back

to God? Okay, that's a hard one. Question Number two, what

will you will? What molded? Will? What is molded? Say to

it's molder? Why have you made me like this? Question? Number three?

Has the pottern no right over the clay to make out of the same

lump, one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? Twenty two.

What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his

power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction in order

to make known the riches of his glory, for vessels which he prepared beforehand

for glory, even as verse twenty four, whom he has called. So

I think the simplest answer is Paul is saying we don't even have a right

to ask that question, because the Creator has the right to do with his

clay whatever he pleases. Now, I'll be honest with you. I struggle

with that answer, So I'll be lying if I told you that didn't bother

me. But it is biblical, and we either take it for what it

is or say, you know what, I don't accept this book. I

leave the pastoral aspect of this. Yeah. I think also maybe the question

is like, is it necessary? Therefore none of my choices are my own?

Right, none of my choices are my own, They're all determined God.

What I've learned is that that's not necessarily the case. So God's not

up there deciding that you should have clay pot chicken rice after this at chadchan

thing like you in the way where God is mean so that when you go

to church thing later you will not choose any other any other food except the

clear perche can rise because God is determined. So it's not it's not how

we understand free will and god sovereignty. Right? Oh? Is that well?

I think there's a distinction. Right. So for example, if I

if I see, if I see, if I let's see someone is I'm

walking past a swimming pool and someone is swimming there, I can be falced

into the pool. Someone could come behind me and push me against my will.

God doesn't do that. In that case, I jump, but I

didn't choose to jump. I was pushed from the back. That's not how

it happens. Rather, if it's a person I care for, I am

moved to jump, but it really doesn't. While I think I'm doing it

of my own choice, which I am, my choice has been influenced by

the person in that I'm compassionately reacting to that person. Now, had it

been someone let's say that I was not too fond of. Okay, let's

just say maybe Yuguan club. I'm sorry, sorry, Liverpool manager, but

no, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Do you is a good

man? Right? Okay? So if let's say, if let's say it

is someone that is not I'm not too fond of, I mean not jump.

But either way, my decision to jump or not to jump depends on

my relationship with a person that is beyond my control. So I'm reacting to

it. So in that sense, my choices do matter, But at every

moment of choice, I'm acting upon a predisposition that is essentially out of my

control. And it's the simplest way to demonstrate this is to ask you this

question, how many have you here love Durian? Can I see your hands

you love? Can you choose to hate Durian? You can choose not to

eat Durian. You can't just love Duria and it's wired into you. That's

what it is. So someone can say, don't eat Durian for one year,

but they better compensate with a different way so that it influences the choice.

That's how it is. So what we believe is that there is no

We don't believe in uninfluenced or undetermined free will. It's a complete free will,

completely free, but we have freedom of choice. But there is influence.

It's externally yes. Left for example, like I mean, none of

us chose to be born the year we were born to parents, we were

born to the race we were born in. We can't choose that, but

having been born that way has already kind of predisposed us to so many different

choices. We'll make in our lives after that, right, and the way

our parents brought us up, None of us we chose. So what we

think, we react in a certain way in same culture. It is our

completely our choice. It is not entirely true because we have been influenced.

Uh. And and God is sovereign over all of those things that are happening.

You know that we may not be We cannot see in a naked eye.

Yep, Okay, cool. I think that's all we have time for.

Of course, it's never enough time, and so we probably need to

do a live stream or something. Maybe will do a live stream. Maybe

we will. Yeah, we'll see how we can. We can we can

tackle this. It's a very, very big topic. But we do need

to end here, and next week we will deal with another big topic.

And we chose that because it's something we are facing today. Uh. And

you may and counter a colleague or a classmate that will bring up secularism and

progressive Christianity. I think those are important things to talk about. There's a

question here about homosexuality, like if God created everything, why do he create

homosexuals? So there's a loaded question there, and we can deal with that

next week, but the intention is also to invite someone to come and address

that topic on its own at another time. So just want to let you

know that we are as a leadership thinking about these things, and we know

that it's something that you face on a day to day basis and there are

questions that you're being asked. So, uh, we only have like one

hour on a Saturday, so we will have to deal with it as we

go along, but we are thinking about it. We are thinking about you,

and we want to make sure that you get God's perspective from his word

on how to deal with his real life, day to day issues. All

right, thank you for listening to the Generation's Church podcast. We hope you

have been blessed by the Word of God today. Remember to stay tuned by

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