Salty - Week 4 - Pastor Kipp Penrod

Thank you for listening to this message from

Lifehouse Church. Good morning, good morning.

Listen, turn to somebody, give them a high five.

Tell them good to see you at Lifehouse. High

fives all around the house. Amen. It's good to

have you. Hey, you sang great this morning. I

could hear your voices coming and coming forth

from the back. And I love that. Love hearing

the praise and the worship going up to the Lord.

And I got to tell you, we got to celebrate just

for a second. I don't know if you noticed over

here. That's a very exciting tank over there.

Those green balls represent invitations of people

coming to church. But this one's even more exciting

because this is souls that got saved this week.

Amen. Two in a tank. Come on, give them glory.

Heaven celebrate. We should celebrate with them.

Amen. We were rejoicing before. We're going to

rejoice during and after. That's really what

this is all about. It's about reaching people

for Jesus and people rising up in Christ as believers

and followers of Christ. But I want to continue

on with this message series called Salty. Say

salty. Salty. You want to have it in your spirit.

Stephen Covey said this. He's the author of Seven

Habits. Let me say that again. Most people don't

listen with the intent to understand. Most people

listen with the intent to reply. We will not

effectively lead those who are far from God to

Christ unless we are listening. to understand

and not just simply reply to them, right? If

we're not listening to understand who they are

and what they're about, and we're just there

to get ready for the next reply that we have.

Proverbs 2 .2 says this, making your ear attentive

to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding,

right? Yes, if you call out for the insight and

raise your voice for understanding. In conversation,

when you're talking with someone, it's about

hearing and understanding. It's about listening

with the primary intent of understanding what

the other person is saying. I need to understand

what you're saying, right? And you need to understand

what I'm saying. I need to know where you're

coming from, even if we don't agree. We need

to know where we're coming from. We need to discern

the motive, right? And the thoughts and what

you're really trying to convey. And once I understand

what you're saying, then it's a good time to

reply. It really is. Turn to the person sitting

beside you. Tell them, I'm trying to understand

you. I'm trying to understand you. Just tell

them, I'm trying to, right? My heart is. I'm

trying to understand you. I have to learn to

listen to understand the person that's sitting

beside me, the person that I'm talking to, the

person that I'm walking with and in a conversation

with. And if I don't listen with that intent

of trying to understand, it's going to hinder

the effectiveness of sharing the... gospel with

someone. I'm not going to get a great invite

with somebody if I'm not listening to somebody

enough to understand him. It'll hinder my effectiveness

when I speak with somebody one -on -one, face

-to -face. It'll cause me just to shoot from

the hip with an answer. Amen? How many of you

ever just shoot from the hip with an answer?

You're just ready, right? You're just ready to

go when somebody says something, right? I'll

just fire something back just to make sure I

stay in the conversation. And it's not until

I listen with the intent of understanding that

I really start to understand what it is to be

salt and light for Jesus. What it is to really

come forward and give that other person something

to hear, something worth listening to, and honestly

to understand where they're coming from. And

I'm going to be honest with you, this message

is both convincing, and convicting for me personally,

because I'm a person who can shoot back pretty

quick. I can get in a conversation with somebody,

and I can fire back in a heartbeat. How many

are with me out there? How many are like, you

got no problem in a conversation? All right,

about eight of you. Are the rest, come on, how

many? It's true, right? There we go. That's what

I thought. Thank you for being honest, finally.

Okay, you're quick to give an answer. You're

ready with a reply, right? You can just fire

right off. And that's not everybody, but some

of us just engage in a quick heartbeat. And before

we understand, before we fully listen, before

we get what's taking place, right, we're just

firing back. And if I'm gonna be salty for Jesus,

if I'm really gonna shine bright, right, taste

flavorful for him, I got to understand the person

I'm listening to. I got to understand where they're

coming from. I need to be salty. Now, listen,

I want to throw this acrostic up there. That's

what this message series is based on. If you

guys would put that up on the screen, salty,

right? First week we preached and talked and

walked through it together. It was start a conversation.

Say start a conversation. Right. Second week

was ask a question. Ask a question. Say it. Ask

a question. Now it's listen. And not just listen,

but listen to understand and not to simply reply.

It's about understanding you so I can be genuine

salt in your life. Our theme scripture has been

Matthew 5 .13. You are the salt of the earth.

But if the salt has lost its taste, how shall

its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good

for anything except to be thrown out and trampled

under people's feet. You are the light of the

world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden,

nor do people light a lamp and put it under a

basket but on a lampstand. And it gives light

to who are in a house. In the same way, let your

light shine before others that they might see

your good deeds, right, and give glory to your

Father who is in heaven. We listen to understand

so we can reply well and so people can look past

us and see him. Listen to understand and not

just reply. Proverbs 10, 18, 15 says, an intelligent

heart. Now I know I'm looking out amongst you,

you look like an intelligent bunch, all right?

An intelligent heart acquires knowledge. And

the ear of the wise seeks knowledge. James 1

.19 says this. Know this, my beloved brothers.

Let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak,

and slow to anger. James 1 .19 confirms something

that I've heard since I was growing up as a kid.

I've heard it as an adult, right? And I don't

know if you've heard this phrase before or not,

but probably you have somewhere along the way.

The good Lord gave you two ears and one mouth

for a reason. Amen? How many of you ever heard

that before? The rest of you write it down, okay?

The Lord gave you two ears and one mouth for

a reason. Check it out with the person next to

you. Check it out, go ahead right now. They got

two ears and one mouth, I'm pretty sure, all

right? If not, don't say anything, right? If

they only got one ear, whatever. But two ears,

one mouth. You gotta do the math when you're

thinking about listening to somebody else, all

right? You gotta do the math. Maybe we should

be listening twice as much, right, as we're speaking.

Maybe we should take twice as long in the listening

process as we are in the speaking process. Maybe

I need to use both sides of my head, my left

brain and my right brain, to engage when I'm

in the listening process with somebody else.

Before something spills out of my mouth, before

I just engage and regurgitate whatever idea or

thought pops into my head, I need to listen so

closely to you that I can actually hear your

heartbeat. How many of us are listening pretty

close, right? I need to listen so close to you

that I can hear your heartbeat. I can hear what

you're saying. Almost a spiritual stethoscope

of sorts. What if I was listening so close that

I could hear what's really pumping through your

veins? What's really pumping and coursing through

your life? What if I listened like that? What

if I listened so much that it was similar going

to the doctors? How many of you have been to

the doctor in the last week or two? Raise your

hand if you have. All right, don't be ashamed.

It's okay, we all go. All right, when you go

to the doctors, right, there's a listening process

that takes place. And anytime I've gone to the

doctors for an exam, It's kind of the same, right?

I'll go in, I check in. I always go to the registration.

Now I'm saying, I'm Mr. Penrod. I'm here for

an appointment, right? You're here 250. They're

like, okay, great. Have a seat. And then always,

almost typically always, there's a nice nurse,

right? Almost a nice looking nurse there for

a second. That was weird, honey. That was a joke.

I don't even know what that was. A nice nurse

comes out, right? Takes you back to a room. And

they do the same things, right? They slide the

cuff on you. They're checking your blood pressure,

right? They take it. They stick a thermometer

in your mouth, tell you to stick it under your

tongue. They take all your vitals. They ask you

a couple questions. And then they take you into

the room where the doctor's going to examine

you. They set you up on that rectangle table

that always has the crunchy paper. I don't know

why it's crunchy, right? It's always crunchy.

You set you up on that rectangle table. And they

say, the doctor's going to be right with you

in a few minutes. They close the door. 30 to

45 minutes later, when they should be checking

your blood pressure, the doctor comes in. 30,

40 minutes later, after you played with all the

gadgets that are in that room, how many of you

have taken the colon or the heart apart, right?

The plastic one that's laying on the countertop.

See what it is. Nobody else. I do that. All right.

You know, you get up and read every poster that's

there. You're there, right? And finally, the

doctor will do a little knock on the door. The

doctor walks in, and they say, well, hi, I'm

Dr. So -and -so, right? It's kind of the routine

they do. And they begin, you know, hi, Mr. Penrod,

I'm Dr. So -and -so. and so, and they begin to

ask questions. They begin to say, you know, why

are you here today, Mr. Penrod? And you start

to unfold, right? What's bothering you today?

What seems to be the issue? And the doctor asks

a few questions and they're standing there usually

with a pad, an iPad or a marker or something,

right? Pen and paper. And they start writing

things out. They stop and they begin to listen.

They ask the question, they begin to listen,

and as you begin to unfold, what's going on in

your life? What's the difficulty, right? What's

the frustration? What's the problem that you

currently have at the moment, right? They want

to understand your symptoms. They want to understand

your pain. They want to understand what the struggle

is in your life, and they listen. They listen

intently. What if your next meeting with someone,

look something like that. And they even go a

step further than that. Usually at the end of

the question, they say, you know what, we need

to check your lungs and we need to check your

heart. And they come up close and they put in

a stethoscope and they tell you to breathe in

and they listen. And you breathe out. And they

listen for your heartbeat. Before I try to fix

somebody's issues, before I start spewing something

out of my mouth that might be preconceived or

an idea or something I heard in a reach somebody

for Jesus seminar somewhere, right? I need to

hear what's going on. I need to hear what their

heartbeat is. What if I listened to the point

where I could hear their heartbeat? What if I

knew what they loved and what they hated? What

if I understood the pain that they've been walking

through, the struggle that they're in? What if

I knew what they believed and what they didn't

believe before I even started into a conversation

with them? My knowledge needs to increase in

the listening. It really does. Proverbs 18, 15

said it, an intelligent heart acquires knowledge.

And that happens in the listen. Listen to understand,

not just reply, right? Listen for what's beating

underneath the surface. I mean, the first couple

of minutes in a conversation is rarely what's

happening under the surface, right? We all got

it down. Hey, how you doing? Good. What's going

on today? I'm awesome. You know, how about the

weather? right? Or whatever's latest in sports,

whatever's happening in the news. But he got

to get beyond that. What's the heartbeat? What's

the heartbeat of the person sitting beside you

right now? If you had time to listen to what

they have, right? I remember years ago, I was

a youth pastor. This was many years ago when

I was youth pastoring. And it was one of the

first time full -time positions I got. It was

actually the first full -time position I had

as a youth pastor. I had been a part -time many,

many years and got this opportunity to be a full

-time youth pastor. And I remember going to this

church and it was a different culture than where

I came from. And I remember doing things just

like I always did where I came from. And I would

preach and I would teach. And I remember doing

this for months. And these young people, it was

kind of like. Nothing, right? I'd be preaching,

teaching my heart out. All those kinds of things

are like just nothing. Seemed like nothing was

changing with these kids. Nothing was happening.

And I remember getting so frustrated that one

day I decided, you know what? I'm coming into

youth group. I'm not preaching. I'm not teaching.

We're just gonna sit down. I got a bunch of beanbags

out. We sat down and I just started asking questions.

For a couple of weeks, I asked questions. I just

left them talk. I wanted to hear where they were.

And I was shocked. These were church kids. I

was shocked what they believed. I was shocked

how they thought about things. I was shocked.

But you know what happened? I find out where

they were. I find out who they were, what their

heartbeat was, what they believed and didn't

believe. You got to stop it. Good listening means

you stop and you hear their heartbeat. It's true.

If you look up, listen. If you look that word

up, it actually comes from two Anglo -Saxon words.

One means hearing, right? Which is kind of a

synonym. And the other means to wait in suspense.

That's what it means. Good listening means that

I wait in suspense as I listen to you, right?

It's a posture thing. When I'm coming to get

into a conversation with you, I listen with great

suspense. Good listening means I wait. I can't

hardly wait to hear what you have to say. I'm

suspenseful about what's going to come out of

your mouth next, right? There's an air of excitement

in the conversation. Like, what are you going

to bring me? What are you going to throw at me?

There's an anticipation that takes place that

you're going to about to say something and it's

important. And I want to hear what you have to

say. It's fully engaged. It's fully attentive.

It's zeroed in on. you and what you're saying.

And so much so that they should actually notice

that. Amen? It's true. They should notice it.

You know, it's eye -to -eye engaged conversation.

It's not somebody on their phone. Did you ever

talk to somebody and they're on their phone?

Uh -huh. Uh -huh. That happen this morning to

anybody? Right? It's half -heartedly nodding

at somebody, and that's not engaged. That's not

listening to somebody with anticipation. Or they're

looking at the sky, or they're looking down at

the ground while they're talking with you, right?

Arms crossed. They're talking to somebody with

their arms crossed, and you're in conversation

with them, and you're like, it's kind of like

back off, just go away, right? Can you hurry

up and get it done? Right? Not that kind of conversation.

It's suspense. You know, when I thought about

this, I thought about talking to a teenager.

If you've ever had teenagers in your house and

you have a conversation with them, yeah, somebody's

raising their hands already back. They're like,

amen, right? You ever see a teenager do that?

They're rolling their eyes while you're talking

to them. They grab their arm. How many of you

know as a parent, the spirit of slap comes on

you right about that moment? You don't really

do it. You wonder what it would feel like if

you would, right? You don't really do it, but

the spirit of slap comes all over you. All right,

come on. It's true. We should come into conversations,

though, with suspense. We should come in wanting

to know what they're thinking and what their

heart is. Now, I need to clarify something here.

Just because you're listening to somebody with

great suspense and you're looking them eye to

eye does not mean that you agree with them. All

right? I need to clarify that. I can be fully

engaged in a conversation. I can be locked on

listening to the other person intently, but that

does not mean that I agree with what they're

saying. Sooner or later in a conversation, I'm

gonna respond. Sooner or later, I'm gonna get

the opportunity to move them to Jesus, to move

them to the truth, to move them to what God's

word says. And there's a chance I may disagree

with them. Right? I can listen suspensibly. And

listen, you never, ever compromise the word of

God. You never, ever compromise the truth when

you're in a conversation. You can listen. You

can be engaged. But when it's your turn to speak,

you start moving them towards Christ. You start

moving them towards the truth. You've got to

do that in a conversation. How many of you think

silence can be interpreted as acceptance? Yeah,

you get in a conversation. Matter of fact, you

listen intently, you listen suspensively, but

if you listen and you don't say anything that's

contrary to something that you know is a lie,

you know something that's not the truth, sometimes

silence, and most of the time, silence can be

interpreted as acceptance, agreement even, right?

When we come into the conversation, we dive in.

We listen to what they're saying. We're looking

for their heartbeat. We want to hear where they

are, but that doesn't mean we don't respond.

We do it respectfully, but we do it boldly, right?

We come with the truth. And I'm here to tell

you, when we come. Come with a heart. Think along

those lines. When I come into the next conversation,

I want to hear their heartbeat. If you've got

to, think about a spiritual stethoscope hanging

on you. I want to hear what they've got to say.

I'm going to engage. I'm going to walk on. And

you might say, well, why is this so important?

Especially if you're talking to somebody that

you know isn't speaking truth. Especially if

you're talking to somebody that you know you're

not going to agree with. Why in the world is

this so important to engage this way? Why is

this so important to being salty, right? And

here's the answer to that. Because if I don't

know what street they are on, how am I ever going

to get them to the right street? If I don't know

what street they are on, how am I ever going

to get them to Jesus Street, right? I have to

know where they're at before I can ever give

them direction to get where they need to go.

I don't know if you've ever had somebody call

you and ask for directions to your house, right?

You ever tell somebody to come over to your house

and they get lost getting there? You know, they're

on the way over. They get lost. They're 20 minutes

late. The phone rings, and you're like, hello?

And they're like, well, I'm trying to get to

your house, but I'm lost. What's the first thing

you say to them? Thank you. Where are you, right?

Where are you? And they're like, I don't know.

That's why I'm lost. What street sign do you

see? I'm on A Street. I'm on C, right? Or I don't

see a street. Well, what landmark do you see?

Do you see a tall building or are you in a grassy

field? What do you see around you, right? What's

there? And you're like, whoa, it's just grassy.

Do you see a brown house or a white house? Do

you see a green house or a red house? You start

asking questions. You start trying. You start

the conversation. You start asking questions.

Where are you? Because I can't get you to my

street if I don't know what street you're on,

right? Can't do it. It's hard to get someone

to Jesus Street if you don't even know what street

they're parked on, if you don't even know where

they are, right? You got to listen to understand.

We got to, if I'm going to understand where you

are and I want to help you get somewhere different,

I got to know where you're at. It's beneficial

to understand where they are. It's beneficial

to know what landmarks they've seen in their

life. It's beneficial to know, right, the history

with the person. It's beneficial. We need a starting

point. We need to know where they at. If you're

going to be GPS for Jesus, I'm going to get a

t -shirt made like that, right? If you're going

to be GPS for Jesus, you've got to know what

street they're on. Because they could be on any

number of streets. They really could. As a matter

of fact, they currently, it could be that right

now they're driving up Confusion Street and they

don't really know what they believe. They don't

really understand. They've not really thought

about spiritual things. Or it could be that they

put it in reverse and they backed into an alley

called Bitterness, which is a very different

direction to get somebody out, right? They could

have backed into Bitterness. They could be cruising

down a street called Indifference. They could

be flying up a road of seeking of some kind.

They could be stuck in traffic on a street called

Angry. How many know that happens when you're

stuck in traffic, right? They could be stuck

in anger. They might be broke down alongside

of the road. Broken. Broken. They could be creeping

along with good intentions. They could be swerving

all over the place, right, with evil intent in

their heart. You've got to find out where they

are. You gotta understand who you're talking

to. You're never gonna get them to Jesus Street

if you don't even know where they're at. Amen?

I need to suspensively listen. I need to know

where they are. I remember a conversation I got

into with a young man and... Him and I, I knew

right off the bat, as soon as we started the

conversation, that him and I were in two different

camps, right? I knew he wasn't in the same place.

He wasn't gonna say the same things. I was thinking

and vice versa. But I remember having this conversation

with this young man and I came into the conversation

knowing that we were gonna be in different places.

I knew that just going into the conversation.

So we did the pleasantries and hey, how you doing?

And then I remember asking him a question, something

along the lines of, what do you believe about

God? You know, what do you believe about God?

Who do you believe God is? And I asked one or

two probing questions like that, and then I just

got quiet. And I listened for 45 minutes as this

young man began to unload what he believed about

God. And I can tell you, I learned a whole bunch

of things about that young man as he unfolded

what he believed, why he believed. I remember

hearing the pain in his voice from his past.

in his history, in his young life. I remember

hearing that pain. I remember how he began to

talk about how he had pulled all these ideas

from different places and spaces of life to culminate

together to build his own belief system of some

kind. I remember hearing where he's at and how

he felt passionately about certain things, right?

And I began to understand the street that he

was parked on because I took enough time just

to listen, to hear his heart. And I'd love to

tell you, you know, after he got done talking

and I began to explain to him that I didn't believe

what he believed in and I didn't agree with what

he believed was truth. And we had this respectful

conversation. I'd love to tell you, I got him

on Jesus street that day. I didn't. He declined

what I brought to him. He's like, I don't believe

what you believe. And I said, I understand that.

And we talked and we challenged one another.

And we had that discussion. Did I get him to

Jesus Street that day? No, I did not. But I think

he's one step closer to Jesus Street. At least

challenged his ideas. At least got to a place

where I understood where he was coming from,

right? I would have loved to say I got there.

And I've seen him multiple times since then.

And he'll always run up to me out in public.

We had this great conversation. I remember we

parted ways, friends and buddies, right? And

anytime he sees me out in public, he runs up

and greets me. And we talk together. And I pray

that somebody speaks into his life. I pray that

somebody gets him over to Jesus Street at some

point. Maybe I'll get an opportunity again. I

don't know. He's not here in this place, but

I hope I get the opportunity. Our job is not

to come preaching and hammering people. Our job,

right, is to start a conversation. You need to

start asking questions and then you need to listen.

We need to listen so we can be salt and light.

As the worship team comes, Proverbs 18, 13 says

this, he who answers a matter before he hears

it, it is folly and shame to him. You gotta listen.

You gotta listen. Don't answer till you hear

some heart. Don't answer till you get some answers,

right? I'm gonna give you one last thing as the

worship team comes. I'm gonna give you one last

thing in this listening process. I want you to

listen while you listen, all right? I know it

sounds intense, right? Listen while you listen.

How many of you have ever listened to something

while you were listening to something else? Raise

your hand if that's you. How many of you hate

to listen to something? Two things at the same

time, okay? Some of you are like, it's awful,

right? Some of you that have kids and children

in here, right? You have multiple children. You're

like, you don't understand. That's my way of

life, all right? I listen while I listen, while

I listen, while I listen all the time, all right?

And some of you are like, I hate listening to

two things. I don't like the TV and the radio

on at the same time. Drives me completely crazy,

right? I go buggy out of my mind. I gotta go

shut one of those things off just so one thing's

playing, right? I got five grandchildren. You

get five grandchildren, in one car, five iPads

going at the same time, right? Jesus prays and

worship music on the radio, and they're all talking

at the same time. My brain goes blanko, brother,

just white, just white noise. I don't even know

what's going on. I don't even know what state

I'm in, you know, when I'm driving. It's true.

Right? And it's really not that kind of listening

I'm talking about. But the reality is we all

listen while we listen. God has given us, each

one of us, the ability to listen while we listen.

Every person, when you get into a conversation,

and I know all of you have done this, how many

sometimes you listen into yourself while you're

in a conversation listening to somebody else,

right? Somebody is on the other side talking

to you and they're like, you know, man, they're

pouring their heart out about something that's

been really difficult in their life. And my mom

rejected me. And, you know, and I just don't

know what to do with all this. And you're nodding

and you're thinking, you know, I really don't

like this vanilla creamer that's in my coffee.

You know, they're pouring out their childhood

and the things that they went through. And you're

like, you know, I think I'm going to try caramel.

The next time in my coffee. And I think I saw

that on sale at Giant, right? You know, I heard

about a new stuff. This stuff, this vanilla stuff

is kind of leaving an aftertaste. And they're

pouring their heart out. They're like, you don't

understand what I've been through. You know,

you're having this conversation in your head,

you know, do I have a coupon? I think I have

a coupon. I'm going to stop at Giant on the way

home after this conversation. We have conversations

with ourselves during that. But if you get in

a conversation where you're trying to get somebody

to Jesus Street, If you're going to have a conversation

inside of your head, turn yourself off and turn

the Holy Spirit on. Amen? You can do it. God's

given you the ability. But when you're in a conversation

with someone else, don't be thinking about coffee

creamer and don't even listen to yourself. You

need to invite Holy Spirit into the conversation

and say, Holy Spirit, I need you speaking in

my mind right now as I'm talking with someone

else. I need you guiding the conversation while

I'm chatting it up with someone else. I need

you in this conversation. I need you to speak

to me while I'm listening. I need to listen while

I'm listening so I know what to say when it does

finally come time to speak, right? I need you

to counsel me and give me wisdom. Can't tell

you how many times I've been on the way to the

hospital to meet somebody, and I'm praying the

whole way there. I don't know why, you know,

when we get in an intense situation like that

where there's an emergency, we do that, right?

But if it's everyday life, we're like, eh, I'm

going to think about coffee creamer instead.

But you get in that conversation that might be

a Jesus conversation, start praying. Under your

breath, right? Now, don't do it right in front

of them because they're not going to know what's

going on. I'm talking in your head, in your mind,

right? Just Holy Spirit, I need you to help me

right now. I need you to speak to me. I'm gonna

ask you to stand this morning. Here's what I

know about the Holy Spirit that is such a big

help when you get in that conversation and you're

listening while you're listening. The Holy Spirit

knows a person's history. He knows their hurts.

He knows their bias. He knows their fears. He

knows their background. He knows their philosophy.

He knows whether they have an evil heart or a

good heart. He knows what that person needs to

go from this street to the next that's one street

closer to Jesus. He knows the right words that

you need to speak that might open their heart

up for the gospel, right? He might know what's

blocking them from hearing the gospel. He might

explain to you and help you walk them down a

street where they feel God's conviction in their

life for the first time. He knows all of that.

All you know is what you've gleaned from the

couple questions you asked. You've got to partner

up. Right? You've got to partner up with the

Holy Spirit. Let Him speak to you in the conversation.

Start the conversation. Ask a question. Listen.

Be there with great suspense. Gain knowledge

in the conversation. Figure out what street they're

on. Then get Holy Spirit with you. He is the

Jesus GPS. He is, right? to this message from

Lifehouse Church. We pray that you were impacted

powerfully by this message. If you have been

personally affected by our ministry and you would

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