Counseling seminar (Andy Farmer)

me, they're improving me, they're coming because they want to care for other people.

And that's very exciting. Just to let you know, I've got a number of

liquids up here, so I have my water, so I'll be hitting all these throughout.

I have my cup of coffee, and then this is blood because I'm a vampire.

And I have to have it or else I start looking for people.

So that's a fruit smoothie that I requested.

And Jen graciously brought it to me.

So what I hope tonight is if we do this right, there won't be anything we talk about that

you could not yourself turn around and act on and practice tomorrow.

So this is not a let me dive into the deep end of complex things and try to talk you through

people with multiple personality disorders, something like that.

Although if you're dealing with that, please feel free to ask a question and we'll dialogue.

I want this to be as participatory as you would like it to be.

So if you have a question, let's do it like this.

We'll take some time at the end of each session.

We'll do two sessions.

And dialogue, questions, anything.

And that can include if you're working, if you're trying to help somebody and you're just

wondering how do I apply this to that, feel free to ask that question.

Now, my general rule of thumb is a lot of times you're asking these questions about people

who are either in the room or that other people might know.

So I generally say, if you have a question about somebody you're actually ministering to,

if they're female, call them Betty.

And if they're male, call them Chuck.

So you say, my friend Betty.

My roommate Betty.

My husband Chuck.

Whatever.

But, and let's try not to expose people.

So if you need to change details so that people don't get exposed.

But I do want it to be as practical as possible.

And this may be, you know, beyond the church.

It may be, you may be family members.

It may be somebody you're interacting with at work.

Other contacts at school.

So, so it will be helpful for you and meaningful for me if we get some dialogue here too.

So I'm not going to push it.

But what I would say is that if we have, if you have specific questions about something

I say that's confusing, very possible, and it would be helpful to get that cleared up

at that time, just raise your hand and I'll stop and we'll deal with that.

So, so that, because chances are other people are confused about it as well.

Otherwise, if you just sort of have something, oh, I want to ask about this, we'll just, you know,

just jot it down or remember it and then we'll just deal with it at the end of each session

so we don't kind of get off track.

So, this material in various ways is called from stuff I teach to our pastors at our Sovereign Grace Pastors College.

As I talk about there, even using the word counseling for what I do is problematic.

I heard Paul Tripp say one time that the idea that we counsel people out of problems is not found anywhere in the Bible.

Which is kind of awkward because that's why I have a job.

One way I try to validate my ministry is to say I'm doing biblical counseling.

But even calling it biblical counseling has its challenges because what I can do, if I'm not careful,

is talk people out of problems using the Bible.

And that delivers me back to the same issue, the idea that I think people change because we can talk people out of their problems.

But we do that, don't we?

We talk to people as if our words should make a difference.

As if what we have to say should be life-changing or at least make a difference in what they do.

A good question to reflect on is how many times in this past month have you been in a situation

where you were trying to talk somebody out of their problem?

You don't have to raise your hand or count, but just think about different contexts you've been in.

Perhaps, oh maybe, somebody was trying to help you by talking you out of your problem.

Think about it, your friend maybe, a spouse.

If you have kids, how many times have you tried to talk your kids out of a problem?

Someone you're trying to help in the church, someone you're trying to help at work.

We revert to counseling because we trust our words to do the work.

We trust our insights, our information, our persuasiveness, our earnestness.

Just think about this past year and the conversations you may have had over social distancing or masks

or race issues or politics.

How many times have you or somebody tried to talk you into their way of thinking

by throwing information at you that they think should revolutionize your mind?

How many times have you been tempted to respond with your own body of information

and you end up with two people trying to figure out whose information is more compelling?

That's the challenge we have when we think that the answer to helping people is with our words.

When we do that, do people change?

Even if people respond to our words, do they go home as changed people?

Those are the issues we have to face.

If we're going to talk about this idea and you're in a seminar,

I may just be talking you into leaving.

Well, he doesn't believe in it.

And that's not the goal.

But the issue I want to deal with is I want to get us away from the idea

that the focus has to be on how well we talk

or what information we have to share.

Perhaps you've experienced what has been called unsought counsel.

Like this past week, I was turning from the left-hand lane

toward the right-hand lane and didn't notice a car in my blind spot.

And that car, somewhat ungraciously, through their horn,

counseled me that I was doing wrong.

It was unsought.

I wasn't asking for it.

But we experience unsought counseling for people.

People unload on us.

People just turn on us.

People will say things to us that we find is unhelpful.

And so we still are faced with when we do that,

when people give us unsought counseling, what are they doing?

They're still trying to change our behavior.

They're trying to make us conform to what they think we should do.

And that's the danger of over-trusting counseling as a technique.

So the first thing we're going to do is a thought exercise tonight.

You may have noticed over the past ten years or so that there is a...

It could be described as a pandemic of superheroes in our culture.

Think of all the movies, all the shows, all the...

Where superheroes...

It's an infestation.

We have an infestation of superheroes in our culture right now.

People love superheroes because what you have is somebody who in some ways can seem ordinary,

but they bring something extraordinary to the table that makes a difference.

So the thought exercise is this.

What if you wanted to be a super counselor?

What would it take?

What kind of superpowers would you need to be a super counselor?

So here are some suggestions.

If I'm thinking about being a super counselor,

what are the things that might be helpful for me?

One is, if I'm a Christian,

it would be great to have a direct line of communication with God

where I could access all the knowledge and wisdom

that could be needed in any counseling situation.

In other words, if I interacted with you,

I would know everything I could possibly need to know about you

and about your problem and your circumstances.

That would be a counseling superpower.

Another one might be,

if I could actually see into your soul

and be able to sort out all the things you're feeling and thinking.

I could organize the mess in your life.

That would be a superpower.

What if I was a counselor who had an encyclopedic knowledge

of everything that has ever happened to you

and how that interplays with your brain chemistry

and your unconscious thoughts and your decisions?

And I could make sense of you over your entire life.

That would be a superpower.

What about if I had the gift of prayer

that I could pray for you?

I could pray for your cancer.

I could pray for your depression.

I could pray for your fears.

And it would instantly be dealt with.

That would be a superpower.

What would happen if I could be everywhere all the time,

instantaneously available to you,

24-7, ready to talk, pray, whatever it took,

you never had to deal with me not being available?

That would be a superpower.

What if I had all that?

Would I be a super counselor?

I might be, or I might be nothing.

That's the point that Paul is driving at in 1 Corinthians 13

when he begins this way.

If I speak in the tongue of men and angels

but have not love,

I'm a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

And if I have prophetic powers

and understand all mysteries and all knowledge,

and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains

but have not love,

I am nothing.

If I give away all I have,

if I deliver up my body to be burned

but have not love,

I gain nothing.

Love is patient,

kind.

It does not envy or boast.

It is not arrogant or rude.

It does not insist on its own way.

It is not irritable or resentful.

It does not rejoice at wrongdoing

but rejoices with the truth.

Love bears all things,

believes all things,

hopes all things,

endures all things.

Love never ends.

So just a few conceptual quotes about this passage

which we'll spend our time in this session dealing with.

1 Corinthians is a letter known

for Paul addressing people

who had an inordinate love

and pride in spiritual gifts

and were using them in a fleshly way.

And if you will,

if you read that letter,

you recognize

the first thing Paul does

is commend giftedness

and then he addresses

the improper use of gifts.

And so this is a context

where people were enamored

with superpowers

in the way they lived their lives.

In chapter 12 preceding this,

you know that Paul,

after he has addressed

their fleshly focus on gifts,

he begins to,

he talks about the gifts

and he sets them in proper order.

These are necessary.

This is necessary for us to be the body.

We need the gifts.

Left you think

you can be a giftless church.

Left you think

you can be cessationist

in the way you understand gifts.

This is necessary for the church.

But then in 1 Corinthians 13,

he transitions,

I'll show you a better way.

And so then he does something remarkable.

He takes those gifts

and he expresses them

in their extreme form.

If you had all this to the end,

but have not love,

it means nothing.

Hyper gifts,

apart from love,

mean nothing.

And the interesting thing,

if you notice here,

is there's a contrast

between verses 1 and 3

and verses 4 through 8,

which is Paul is talking

verses 1 through 3

about things that nobody

will ever have

and say this means nothing.

And then he says,

he gives you a list of things

that everybody can do

and says this means everything.

There's nothing in 4 through 8 there

that you and I can't do

as believers.

It takes no extraordinary skill

or maturity

to be patient

or kind.

Isn't that a beautiful thing?

To be truly effective,

we don't need to be extraordinary.

We can be ordinary people.

So there's a question

we need to answer

and that's this.

Why does Paul say

it's better to love

than to be a super counselor?

Why is it better?

Well, I think to understand that,

we have to understand

Paul's appeal ultimately

to the law of God

and Christ.

That

he

is talking about something

that Jesus said this about.

What is the one thing

most needed?

Jesus was asked.

What do you need most

in this life?

You don't need these gifts.

You don't need

to keep the law.

You don't need

to do all these things.

What is the one thing?

Love the Lord your God

with all your heart,

soul, mind, and strength.

Love your neighbor

as yourself.

That's why this is important

because this is where

Jesus places the emphasis.

Jesus places the emphasis

not on giftings

but on love.

And so all Paul's doing

is applying it then

to the Corinthians.

Why is this?

Because authentic ministry

of any kind

occurs at the intersection

between loving God

and loving others.

Where loving God

and loving others happens

is where we do ministry.

If I say I love God

but do not love my neighbor,

I have not love.

If I try to love my neighbor

without loving God

from whom all love comes from,

I'm not truly loving my neighbor.

So they're the intersection.

We live,

brothers and sisters,

at the intersection

in our ministry

of loving God

and loving others.

If we're going to

effectively help other people,

we need to love God

with all the heart,

soul, mind, and strength.

If we're going to

effectively love God,

we need to be committed

to loving other people.

It's not optional.

God will bless ministry

that we do

out of love for Him

and love others.

No one will ever

be truly helped

by us

if we offer them counsel

that doesn't have

as its primary goal

their love for God

and love for others.

We're not fixing problems.

We're not making people different.

The goal is always very simple.

How can I help my brother

love God and love others?

It's a wonderful thing

because you have complex people

who need a simple answer.

For our ministry,

whether it's serving

or giving

or speaking to others,

it has to be grounded in love.

For this reason,

the word I tend to use

is personal ministry.

That's what I call

what I do.

Someone comes to me

and says,

I understand you're

the counseling pastor,

which I'm not.

I just oversee

our quality control

of the counseling

we do as pastors.

I'm a pastor.

That's what I do.

All of our pastors

counsel people.

It's part of our job.

It's part of our calling.

But when someone comes

and says,

I understand you're a pastor

who does counseling.

Can you counsel me?

You will never hear me say,

yes, I'll counsel you.

I'll say,

hey, let's get together.

I'm doing everything I can

to disconnect

what I do

from counseling.

Because counseling comes

embedded

with all manner

of unbiblical assumptions

about my role

and their role

in the process.

I was telling

someone today,

someone,

and this,

I don't think

you should all this,

I never schedule

multiple appointments.

You've heard people say,

let's get together

like once a week

for like say

the next two months

or whatever it is.

I never do that.

I never do that.

I end every session

with,

so,

how'd it go?

I guess,

okay.

You want to do it

next week?

Okay.

And I've done that

with some people

for years.

Not always next week,

but I never,

why?

Because I don't want

people to be,

to be,

people to number one,

to be dependent

on frequency

of meetings

or that I'm essential

to their,

to their dealing

with their problem.

I don't want myself

to feel essential

to the problem

and I want to come

alongside them

as in their,

in their life.

I don't want to

build them into

the way I want

to do ministry.

And so it's okay

to say,

listen,

let's get together

a few times.

That's great.

But there's something

in the nature

of therapeutic counseling

that is,

we've got to have

multiple sessions

because we're

working problems.

that starts

to move us away

from the primary goal

of loving God

and loving others.

So,

what we're going

to do here

is figure out

what ways

can we apply

this passage

to how we help

other people.

And I'm just going

to break it down

sort of phrase by phrase

and we're going

to walk through it

and hopefully

it's helpful to you.

So let's begin.

Love is patient.

In other words,

love is long-suffering.

There's all these words

here that are very rich

in biblical meaning

we're not going

to unpack.

But love suffers long.

An implication

of that is this.

Loving ministry,

loving personal ministry

doesn't set

a timeline

for anybody's change.

We have a great tendency

to sort of say it

like this.

We don't mean it

but we kind of

say it like this.

I'll invest my time

this way

as long as I'm seeing

a certain amount

of change in you.

And we negotiate

how much commitment

we're willing to make

based on how much

change they're willing

to give us.

Now we don't do that

necessarily in our thinking

but that's implied

in how we try

to help people.

We have an agenda

that requires

somebody to change

for us to be willing

to make the investment

in their lives.

So if we're patient

we recognize

that my agenda

for your change

is kind of irrelevant

because the only agenda

that matters

for your change

is God's agenda.

I may repeat

some of these things

a couple times

but they just come to mind.

This is one thing

pastors really struggle with

and you may struggle

with it too.

When someone comes to you

and they bring a problem

they say,

listen,

can I talk about something?

And they bring

that problem to you.

You may be like me

where you sort of feel like

boom,

the problem is now

at my doorstep.

I gotta fix it.

I gotta solve it.

I'm the terminal answer

to their problem.

But that's not the way

life works.

They just happen

to run into me.

Right?

Maybe they were directed

to me.

Maybe they just felt

vulnerable when I was there

and they opened up

their lives.

The way life is happening

is they're on a path

and we intersect them

at a certain point.

There's no guarantee

that we're really supposed

to be part of their solution.

So why do we feel

the responsibility

to make them change

because we are now

investing in them?

No, we're just meant

to be part of God's process

in some way.

So we want to make sure

that our orientation

to people is not

with an expectation

of change based

on our investment.

Second of all,

loving ministry,

if it's patient,

endures the fruit

of someone's sin.

And that can be hard.

Paul Tripp said it like this,

in personal ministry,

the sin of the person

you are helping

will eventually be revealed

in your relationship.

You have these quotes there.

If you are ministering

to an angry person,

at some point,

that anger will be

directed at you.

If you're helping a person

who struggles with trust,

at some point,

she will distrust you.

A manipulative person

will seek to manipulate you.

A depressed person

will tell you

he tried everything

you've suggested

and it didn't work.

You can't stand next

to a puddle

without eventually

being splashed

by its mud.

So if we're going

to move toward people

in personal ministry,

we have to move toward them

with the idea

that I'm going to need

to be patient

because this is not going

to be a smooth ride

in a lot of cases.

And when we do that,

we find that we're really

motivated by love.

A second,

love is kind.

I'll say it like this,

loving ministry smiles.

It doesn't have a game face.

My first real opportunity

to do what I would call

formal personal ministry,

I was leading a small group

before I became a pastor.

Very new leading the group

and there was a man

in the group

who was I think

an unbeliever

and he was dating

a single mom in the church

who was a believer

and he was a nice guy

but he was kind of rough

and he basically,

he was brash

and he would say

anything and everything

and he was intimidating.

And so,

I felt like I needed

to talk to him

about the fact

that he was involved

in this person's life

and it was creating challenges

for her and her kids

and she was asking me

to kind of help with that.

And so,

I set up an appointment

with him

and at the time

I was actually working

in commercial real estate

so I had a suit on

and I had an office

and so I thought

I'll get him into the office

and I'll do a power play.

Now,

that wasn't really

the way I was processing it

but I feared him.

I didn't want

his brashness

to come out at me.

And so,

he came in

and I had him sit down

across the desk from me

so every possible power move

I could produce

I put into play.

I had my suit on.

It was my,

so it was my turf

in my arrangement

and here he is

and I,

and I had on this game face.

My face was really stern.

It was,

because I was,

because I geared myself up

to confront him.

And so,

I kind of start with my spiel

which I'd rehearsed

and,

and like,

like,

a minute into it

he just said,

wait,

wait,

wait,

wait,

wait.

What is this?

Well,

this isn't you.

And he just,

he just,

and it ended up being

a good conversation

because he was gracious

when I wasn't.

Because he was kind

when I wasn't.

He said,

what do you want me to know?

And I said,

well,

listen,

man,

I just feel like

that you're not aware

of how vulnerable.

And we just started talking

and it really

turned into

a good conversation.

But he had to confront

the fact that I was having a,

I was,

I was mostly protecting myself.

I wasn't being kind to him.

That's happened multiple times.

There's so many times

in my life

I've had to call people back

and say,

listen,

or,

or grab them on a Sunday morning,

listen,

I think I was,

I was impatient with you.

I don't think I was kind to you.

We need to be willing

to do that

if we're truly kind.

So we don't want

to have a game face.

We,

again,

one of the things I did,

I set

opposite of him.

And one of the things

that we learned

in counseling class

was our goal

in counseling,

using that terminology,

is not to sit

across from somebody

and look at a problem,

but try to figure out

how do we get on

the same side

of the table

so we can look

at problems

the same way.

How do I get on,

how can I come over

to your side

of the table?

How can I,

that's,

that's kind.

I don't want to look

at it from my perspective

and try to get you

to see it

from my perspective.

It doesn't mean

that we're necessarily

going to agree,

but if we can get

on the same side

of the table,

maybe we can actually

talk about it

in a way that's helpful.

And this is important.

Loving ministry

doesn't make promises

it can't keep.

This often happens

when you have people

and you're,

you're,

you're administering

somebody who is,

I would call

a difficult person,

a person who may be,

let me give you a scenario,

maybe you're,

you're familiar with this.

Sometimes we call them

needy people,

they're emotionally needy,

they seem to,

they seem to have a,

have a bottomless well

of need for,

for input,

for care,

for attention.

And,

and so what will

often happen

is a person

who's got those

kind of struggles,

no matter where

they're coming from,

that tendency

will come into

a church environment

or a fellowship environment

and will seek out

people who have

mercy tendencies,

people who are

merciful.

And they'll let,

they'll,

they'll latch on

to a merciful person.

And because that

merciful person

initially cares,

they,

they let that happen.

which is,

which at some point

is okay.

But then the merciful person

begins to feel responsible.

And the person

wants them

to feel responsible.

And they'll say things

like,

I don't,

I've never had a friend

like you.

I don't know

what I would do

if you weren't

in my life.

For,

for,

for once in my life,

I feel like I finally

have somebody

who knows me.

So what happens

is you're there

and then you begin

to recognize

you're over your head.

And now they,

and now it's just you.

You realize all the other

people who were

kind of there

initially in that group

have all kind of

stepped aside

and said,

you go girl.

And,

and,

and so you're there

and you recognize

this is starting

to swallow you whole.

and so then

you pull back

and find various ways

to try to manage

them back into the group

or,

or separate

or change your number

or something.

And that comes across

to them as massive

rejection.

I,

I made myself

vulnerable to you

and what did you do?

You rejected me.

And then there's

an explosion

and then they disappear.

And then they retreat.

And you're left

with what happened.

And they're left

with a cycle

that's going to start again.

It's a cycle.

It's a cycle.

It's a rejection cycle.

And we in good intentions

play into it.

Why?

Because we promise ourselves,

we promise ourselves

to them in ways

we can't deliver.

We can't be that.

We become functional Jesus

to them.

We replace their need

for God with us.

Why?

Because it can make us

feel good

to be that needed.

Number two,

we can,

we can overemphasize

the value of our care

and actually undermine

our understanding

of the body of Christ

by letting them attach

to individuals.

People who have that tendency

have a difficult time

in social relationships.

You'll see,

you'll hear people say

things like,

well,

I don't like superficial.

I only want to be deep.

If you're here

and you don't like superficial,

learn to like it.

Superficial

is where you build bridges.

Superficial is where

true trust is built.

None of us like superficial.

Although,

I like superficial.

A lot of guys like superficial.

We can live our whole lives

superficial.

Not everybody.

But,

but there is a danger

to think,

I just don't like superficial.

I only want depth.

Because with depth

becomes,

becomes premature expectation

and premature

dependence.

So we want to let,

we want relationships,

whether they're,

they're friendships

or just ministry relationships,

develop on a path

that allows us

to have space

to,

to,

to,

to be close

and not to be close

and,

and be in groups

and be together

and,

and not always interact.

those kind of things

are necessary

for any good relationship,

particularly a,

a ministry relationship.

Another thing can happen

in this kind of a situation

and you may have experienced

this as well.

It sometimes happens

when people are struggling

with things like,

like,

addictions

or life controlling problems.

Their,

their life

is like this.

If you watch them

live their life,

it's just all over the map,

right?

They're just,

you know,

I don't know where,

I don't know what they're doing.

And what they really want us to do

is follow wherever they go.

They want us just to run

as fast as they're running

and follow wherever

they want us to go.

Guess what?

We'll never be able to do that

and we will frustrate them

in our attempt.

What I recommend we do

when we have somebody

who is chaotic

in the way they're doing things

and living their lives,

I recommend you fix a position

and you say,

here I am.

And you let them run around you.

Because over time,

if they're confident,

you're not going to chase them.

And they're confident

that,

that you're going to stay there.

You're not going to go away.

You're just going to be here.

Then they'll begin to adjust

to where you're standing.

They'll recognize

that they can't text you

at all times,

day and night,

and have you respond

simply because they're

sending you a text.

I have a whole,

I'm going to rant

at some point tonight

about texting,

but not right now.

But that's what happens.

See,

it's not kind

to fall into unhealthy patterns

that other people have

for their lives

trying to help them.

So,

love does not envy or boast.

The background behind that a bit

is that

there was tremendous jealousy

in Corinth

over who had what gifts.

And they were,

people who were boasting

they had this gift

or boasting they were

of this apostle

and other people

were envious of this gift

or this apostle.

So he's saying

love does not envy or boast.

So loving ministry

does not seek

personal identity

from doing ministry

to others

or

prove competency

by doing ministry

to others.

We don't want to

seek identity.

One of my concerns

about people

who go into counseling,

not that everybody does,

but a lot of people

go into counseling

because of a need

to feel

helpful to other people.

I had a

one,

I can remember it vividly,

I do a lot of counseling

on Saturdays

when people are off.

So one time I had,

I don't think I had

five appointments

in a row

on a Saturday

which was a lot for me.

And I got to the end of the day

I was tired.

But I felt,

you know,

each one of them

I felt like God

was just there

and met us

and I felt like

there was just

the sense of the,

the sense of

this was valuable

and they were expressing it,

thank you so much.

And I walked out of my car

and I said,

Lord,

this is what I'm called to,

this is what I feel like

my gifts are,

this is what I feel like

is my calling.

And I,

this doesn't happen often,

but I had one of those moments

where I felt like God

almost spoke audibly to me.

Right?

And I know it's the Lord

because when the Lord

speaks that way to me,

he calls me sport.

So,

so he's a sport.

If you're going to take credit

for all that's happening,

you're going to need to take

the blame as well

when it doesn't happen.

And I was like,

okay,

I don't know.

And from that point on,

I take no credit,

I get no satisfaction

for a good day of counseling.

I take that to the cross.

Lord,

if there's anything

that happened to your purpose

that's good,

it's because you've done it.

Now,

I,

I love people

and I,

I love when a relationship

gets furthered along

and where we have fellowship

and I want to rejoice

in fellowship,

but my sense of,

of being helpful

to other people,

I want to crucify.

Because if I'm being helpful,

that means I'm not counting

on God being helpful.

So we don't want to boast

in that.

Another thing we don't want to do

is we don't want to,

loving ministry

does not care

who gets the credit.

Which you will find

over time.

You invest

and pour your life

into somebody's life.

And then they say,

well,

you know what,

she was,

she was,

she meant well.

You know,

she tried,

but this person over here,

that's where,

and they start talking

about how God changed them

and you're saying,

I said all those things

a year ago.

And you start to feel jealous

that you're not getting credit

for the work you did.

That's that tendency

to envy and boast.

Love is not arrogant

or rude.

Loving ministry

does not speak

presumptively

into someone's trial.

For example,

do we really know

how someone is feeling?

There is a great tendency

that we have

because we're

diagnosticians.

Because that's what

therapeutic counseling culture

teaches us to be,

to diagnose people.

And so we tend

to interact

with somebody

and we diagnose

their problem

and then we start

speaking into the problem

with no understanding

of context.

No understanding

of who is this person

in their problem.

We don't really care

because we're problem focused

because a lot of

therapeutic orientation

because of the nature

of what it is,

because the nature

of you've got a limited

amount of time

and you have to have

a strategy

to tackle problems,

is a lot of times

data collection

for the sake of therapy.

It's not relationship

for the sake

of mutual change.

And so we tend

to want to,

we buy into that.

We buy into the idea

where we can have

this encounter

and we know

what they need.

But we have to ask ourselves,

do we really know

what someone needs

or someone is feeling?

Have you ever sat down

with someone

and felt like

they already decided

what you needed

before you even

started to speak?

Someone had told them

what you're dealing with,

you started to come

and talk to them

and you felt like

they'd already developed

conclusions about it.

One of the hardest things

to do is to see

a situation

and not presume

you have the antidote.

That takes a great amount

of self-control.

Particularly if you do

a lot of ministry

like I do,

I can read people

and have a pretty good idea

of what they're dealing with

just through experience,

through the range

of counseling people.

But that doesn't mean

I really know.

At best it's conjecture

and educated guess.

But if I impose that

upon them,

I'm making their struggle

fit my assessment.

And we cannot do that.

The other thing we can do

is we can have

an experience

and then try to use that

and leverage that

to speak into

other people's experience.

And we can't use

our own experience.

Now there is a way

to tap into.

It's actually

anti-therapeutic

because in a therapeutic culture

you're not meant

to bring your own experiences in.

You're a clinician

and you're meant to keep it

within the clinician boundaries.

Sometimes biblical counseling

you do bring

experience in.

It's essential.

But how we do that

is not,

oh, I know you lost this,

I lost this.

There's no comparison

at that level

between what you've lost

and what I lost.

I'm not helping you

by imposing my experience

onto your experience.

So we can talk about

how to do that

but we have to be careful

not to assume

that our experience

can speak to other

people's experience.

love does not insist

on its own way.

Loving ministry

does not impose

our way of thinking

on another person.

What we think,

not only how we understand

their problem

but how we understand

how to deal with problems.

You might be somebody

who is a rational process

or the way you deal

with problems

is okay,

what's the issue?

How do I define it?

How do I look and see

what the Bible says about it?

And then how do I produce

a game plan for change

for my life?

That might work great for you.

It may have nothing to do

with the person

who you're meeting with.

You can't impose that on them.

You may be a person

who feels like

what you've got to do

is you've got to pull

the emotions out.

You've got to take

what is inside

and you've got to

bring it out to the surface

and then we have to deal

with it that way.

You're going to frustrate

a lot of people

because frankly

they don't like

talking about their emotions

and nothing you do

and if they try

you'll find it really

is unfulfilling

for them and for you

because they don't have

the skill to do that.

It's not who they are.

So we have to be careful

not to think

that our way

of handling problems

is the way

they should handle problems.

One quick application

of this

and I hope you don't

have to deal with this

but it's one of the

great mistakes

people make

dealing with domestic abuse.

Someone is in a domestic

situation where there is

domestic abuse going on

and well-meaning friends

who are discovering it

are become very

can become very aggressive

in telling the person

what they need to do

to get out of it.

Understandably

we see somebody

in a horrible situation

we want them out of it

but one of the things

you cannot do

with someone

in a domestic abuse

is be another

controlling voice.

They've already got

one controlling voice

in their life.

They don't need

a person who's in

a domestic abuse situation

has lost the ability

to think

as a personal agent.

They only know

how to think

based on how somebody else

is defining their life

and if you come in

and are also doing that

they won't differentiate.

They will follow

what you say

but it won't be

their decisions

it will be them

making decisions

because of your pressure

and the problem is

you're not there

to deal with the consequences

of the decision

they make

and when someone

is in a domestic abuse situation

there rarely ever

is a good choice.

it's only how many

consequences

in a bad choice

there are

or how many choices

there are

and what were the consequences.

In someone trying

to get out of abuse

there's never a clean road

and so we want

to be very careful

what we're trying to do

in a domestic abuse situation

if you're trying

to help somebody

is you're trying

to help them

reclaim their own voice.

help them to understand

no you can differentiate

between the oppressor

and their perspective of you

and who you are.

So they ask you

what should I do?

I don't know.

I don't know

it would be wrong

for me to presume

I know what you should do.

I'd be taking control

of your life

and that's the exact thing

you don't want.

So this is a case

where we're dealing

with somebody

we can't impose

our thinking

into their situation

or we can do

great damage.

Love is not irritable

or resentful.

Loving ministry

is not easily provoked

and you've known this

some people just seem

wired

to

you know

to irritate you.

They just

whatever they do

the way their texts

come across

the way

anything they do

even they just

happen to catch you

they have an amazing

ability to catch you

at bad times.

Right?

When you're not doing well

that's when they're not

doing well.

Or they just

are not very

fun people.

And so you get

no relational benefit

and they're just

kind of irritating.

They seem to exist

for no other purpose

than to push our buttons.

we have to recognize

that love

does not let that

change our perspective

about somebody.

And loving ministry

also doesn't

take up

offenses

that's being irritable

when

and this will happen

sometimes

in marriage situations

where maybe

you're talking

to a spouse

that's really

struggling with

the way they're

being treated

and you hear

all this stuff

from their perspective

and that forms

an opinion

about the other person

and then you start

relating to them

and the other person

based on what

they've told you

as opposed to

what really

is going on.

And you take up

an offense

and now you start

to feed

their struggle

with that person.

It doesn't have to be

just a marriage.

It can be a

roommate situation.

It can be a work situation.

We have to be careful

in counseling

not to take up

the offenses

of others.

Another thing

that can happen

is

at times

we may become

the bad guy.

That'll test us

when

suddenly

we start getting

blamed for things.

I'm

this week

I'm going

into situations

there's kind of

a group of situations

that are all separate

but they're all

having this week

where

I'm in some sense

the bad guy.

I'm not trying to be.

And I'm hoping

to avoid it

but I know

how things are

playing out

and I'm going

to be the one

in a situation

not delivering

what somebody

wanted.

And that's

hard for me.

It's really hard

for me

because I love

approval.

And I've been

praying

even this morning

I was praying

Lord give me

courage

enough to be

gracious

and humble

and loving

but not

shrink back

from what

I need

to say

in the situation.

And I've got

two or three

of those

happening this week

and I'm

I kind of wish

I could stay here

a few more days.

It would be great.

Tomorrow night

let's come back

we'll do this again.

And there will be

folks if you do

personal ministry

who feel like

you're part

of their problem.

And that will

test

your love.

Love does not

rejoice at

wrongdoing

but rejoices

in the truth.

We have to be

careful not to

dwell on the

evil in a

situation

the wrong

in a situation

we have to

look for

what's right

what's holy

find what

God is doing

even in

difficult

situations

look for

the grace

we look

to trust

here's a

difficult one

somebody who

has lied

to us

somebody we

know is not

telling us

the whole

truth

we distrust

them

we have to

fight for

trust

we can't

have a

relationship

if we don't

give their

words

credibility

if we sit

there the

whole time

and recognize

they're just

lying through

their teeth

or I feel

it

we can't

help them

so trust

is something

that's very

important we

have to work

on from our

end

ken sandy

said this

he's a

he's a

counselor

and a

peacemaker

and he said

love always

looks for

reasonable ways

to trust

others

to hope

that they

are doing

what is

right

and to

interpret

their words

and actions

in a way

that protects

their reputation

and credibility

this means

we have to be

very careful

how we

speak to

other people

about the

people we're

caring for

doing personal

ministry is

you have to

develop

compartments

for people

you have to

be careful

what you say

about other

people because

you're going

to not only

slander

and gossip

but you may

infect somebody

else's view

of somebody

based on what

you're experiencing

it's very

important to

be careful

with that

and then

love bears

all hopes

believes

and endures

all things

that's that

wonderful end

that culminates

in love

never fails

the love

of God

is inexhaustible

the promise

of God

is not just

for the person

we're seeking

to love

it's for us

as well

that's why

John said

in 1 John 4

beloved

let us love

one another

for love

is from God

it doesn't

come from

one

it is from

God

and whoever

loves

has been

born of

God

and knows

God

anyone

who does

not love

does not

know God

because God

is love

and this

and this

the love

of God

was made

manifest

among us

that God

sent his only

son into

the world

that we might

live through

him

in this

is love

not that we

have loved

God

but that he

has loved

us

that's the

preamble

and sent

his son

to be the

propitiation

for our sins

that's our

gospel

that's our

gospel

Lord

I can love

others

because you

have loved

me

in Christ

beloved

if God

so loved

us

we also

ought to

love one

another

no one

has ever

seen God

if we

love one

another

like we

just talked

about

God

abides

in us

and his

love

is perfected

in us

isn't that a

beautiful promise

if I am

seeking to

make the

priority

how to

love others

God

abides

in me

God

meets

me

not

because

I'm

an

effective

counselor

but because

I have

allowed

the love

of God

to be

shed

abroad

in my

heart

and other

people

simply

receive

the benefit

of what

God

is doing

in my

life

Jonathan Edwards

said it

this way

I'm going to

close this

session

with this

saints

too

may be

the instruments

of comforting

and establishing

one another

one another

in faith

and obedience

of quickening

and animating

edifying

one another

of raising

one another

out of dull