Interview with Karen Ellison from Deeper Still

Mother's day, next weekend, we get ready to celebrate that.

We're thankful for that holiday.

Um, but we also understand that for some people it can be very difficult.

This time of year can be very difficult for a lot of different reasons.

Maybe somebody has lost a child, uh, through miscarriage or even, uh, through still birth.

And that is a, uh, just a very difficult thing.

When people, when we go through the, the celebration of mother's day for some women and, and men, it, it doesn't feel like a celebration much.

And, and then even deeper than that, there are some people, and I think probably more than you, and I would know, um, have gone through the trauma of abortion.

Um, and because of that, every mother's day, there's that reminder of the choice that was made, whether it was forced or however it came about.

And, and the difficulty of trying to like, like Derrick was saying, you know, realizing that the old is gone and the new has come is very hard when you've been a part of making a decision like that, that you realize afterward was not the right decision.

And so I just want our church to be fully aware that there are things that we need to stand against, that the enemy is trying to do.

We know that abortion is something that Satan has, uh, has caused to come into this li into this world.

It's his, uh, it's, it's his desire and plan, but how many of you know that God is the giver of life?

And so we believe that, but we don't just stand against something.

We stand for something.

And I think there are a lot of churches and Christians who unfortunately get that a little bit wrong.

They forget they are actual people who have encountered various things in their life and made decisions, just like all of us have made decisions in other areas of our life that we regret that we wish we would've chosen differently.

And so it's important for the body of Christ to embrace those.

Not only who are choosing life, we thank God for those, but also those who have in the past made a decision.

This is very difficult for them to move beyond.

Okay.

And so one of the reasons we have Ms.

Karen with us today is because she and her ministry really are very impactful in helping people who have gone through that very scenario.

And so before I ask you what you do, because it's interesting in America, whenever you introduce yourself to somebody, the second or third question is always, what, what do you do?

what is your job?

What is your work?

And that's important, you know, we're gonna get to that.

But I would like for Karen to just share a little bit about who she is about her family and anything in world that you'd like to share.

Thank you.

Thank you, Tyler.

And I'm so thankful to be here today.

It's an honor.

Anytime a church body asks you to come and share.

Trust me, it's an honor.

And so really thank you for your openness and your invitation really appreciate it.

Um, okay.

So I live in Knoxville.

I've been here, um, almost well, 24 years this year, and that's my husband down on the front row.

Arthur, Arthur.

Arthur likes to tell people that he's a fifth generation Knoxville.

Wow.

So that's, that means something, you know, something.

Yeah.

So, um, we have three children, um, I'm, they're my stepchildren.

Um, they're all in their thirties now.

And, um, but we've, uh, I love Knoxville.

I actually grew up in Pennsylvania and, um, but I think I was made for the south.

Somehow.

I really work in the south, works for me a lot better.

So anyway, really?

Um, uh, yeah, so I don't know.

That's Me.

That's great.

And, and you are a Christian.

I am a Christian.

Hallelujah.

Thank you, Jesus.

I actually came to know the Lord.

It's a little girl.

I grow, I grew up in a Christian home, but I did, you know, have years of just doubt and, um, you know, just didn't know my identity in crisis, probably what it came down to.

And there are ways that I veered off the road, which I'll share a little bit here, but, um, thankfully, um, as pastor Derek said, um, there's always, uh, there's always a new beginning if you're willing to go there and the Lord to kind of put your, your feet back on solid rock again.

And that's certainly my story too.

Yeah.

Right.

So how did you come about having a heart for this particular area of ministry?

What was it about your own experience that, yeah,

So Deeper Still ministry that I, that my husband and I started and it is, um, to bring healing and freedom to the abortion wounded heart.

And so, you know, part of my testimony is I had an abortion when I was in my early twenties.

And, you know, I think when abortion became legal, which is when 1973 in the United States, I was like in middle school, junior high, we called it then, um, you know, and I really didn't know that much about it.

I really didn't think I'd need to know that much about it.

And we didn't know like what we know now in terms of how, how easily you can find information about, um, life in the womb and how babies develop in the room and so forth.

But I think one of my takeaways from my story, uh, that I could share is that even if you have head knowledge, or even if you have a conviction in your heart that something's right or wrong, there are other forces that can override that conviction.

And so that, that was the case with me.

So even though I didn't know a ton about abortion or even pregnancy, I did know.

I mean, I did have a knowing in my heart, that pregnancy means baby.

I mean that I wasn't like disconnected from that, but in my particular situation, what became, um, a abandonment fear and shame became the stronger forces that beca at least in my mind became bigger than my conviction for what was right or wrong.

And so, and so sometimes you choose, you know, something wrong, sometimes you consent to it.

Sure.

And that's kind of how I felt like my story was, is like there were, there were pressures from family.

There were pressures from my boyfriend at the time.

And, and I was in, actually, we met each other on Christian college.

I mean, we were Christians.

My boyfriend was like strong in the Lord in a lot of ways, but not in other ways.

And I, and I didn't know how to discern the difference or, you know, you think someone knows the Bible and plays the guitar and you think that they're strong in the Lord and I found out that's not true.

That's not true when the, when the rubber meets the road, if you haven't died to those things that we just heard about, if you haven't died to those things, you can, you can be, um, um, how would I wanna say it?

You can be, uh, trying to play the game so to speak, but when, if you haven't really, um, died to your flesh and been healed, then you don't have the strength when it comes to pressures and temptation and yeah.

Well, thank you for sharing your story.

I know that's a, that's just a, a deep thing to talk about, even.

Yeah.

And let me even just make, make a comment about that.

In like back when I was had my, what I call abortion, wounded heart, I couldn't even say the word abortion, the idea of me ever coming before church and sharing my testimony openly or whatever, not in a million years, I was gonna be the good church girl that sat in the back and never caused any trouble and just live in my shame.

And I was gonna, I was not gonna let you see my shame as much as I possibly could, but I had no zero freedom to tell you the truth and to live authentically out in the open.

And that's really that, that is really what the abortion wound and heart, it silences you, it shuts your voice down and you live, you, you, you learn to live two lives, the lives that you want people to see.

Yeah.

The you that you think you hope to be, that you want them to see, and then there's the you that you're not gonna let anybody see know or hear about.

Wow.

Yeah.

I just, it's just hard to grasp totally what it must be like to go through all of that and the hurt and all of that.

Um, how did you, how did the Lord work with you to bring you to a place of, of healing?

So everyone's story and the Lord bringing you back to a place is, is different and unique, but you know, one of the things, again, maybe even like pastor Derek just shared with us, um, you know, the, the Lord, the father, the father, um, there's a song out now.

He says he, the father ran down my prodigal road, you know, and he brought me a ring on a robe.

I mean, that's a song out there now.

It's so beautiful.

But anyway, really it's the Lord's pursuit.

He pursued me.

And I think that's the thing that was so UN, like, I didn't know what to do with that.

Like when you felt shame and you felt like I'm not worthy, or I don't, or I messed it up, I forfeited it.

That's how I felt.

I felt like I forfeited my, I didn't feel like I forfeited my salvation, but I felt like I forfeited the call of God in my life.

Like again, but the Lord, like he pursuing is, is grace.

I mean, so at some point you have to like, what are you doing, Lord?

Like really?

Is this really who you are?

Are you the God of grace that pursues and doesn't stop pursuing until you win.

Wow.

So that's the God I was confronted with.

.

Come On.

Amen.

I mean, so you either end up surrendering to that or keep running from that.

And so I, thankfully I surrendered to that.

Yeah.

Amen.

And, and so then out of all of that, this ministry was born.

And so tell us a little more, if you would about deeper still.

Right.

So, um, I think one of the reasons the Lord, um, it, it, it was pretty quickly, I mean, it wasn't like I waited like 30 years until, you know, I surrendered to the Lord.

It's like, he pursued me hard right from the beginning.

And I think it's because the Lord knew he would, the enemy was gonna try to steal a call of God on my life and the, and he was gonna do everything like the Lord was gonna say, no, don't let him steal those years from you for crying out loud.

Let's get on with it.

You know?

And so he pursued me hard in, in even, even early on.

And, and I began to, to surrender step by step.

He brought lots of different people or circumstances or things that he just brings into your life to confront certain things.

So you can get to the next level of walking out your healing.

And, um, so anyway, some years into it, I, um, I started working at a crisis pregnancy center.

Um, this was in Virginia Beach, Virginia, actually.

And, um, and even when I walked in the door, that pregnancy center and I knew I was gonna be, I was a student intern and I knew I was gonna, um, like I had compassion obviously for women who were in PR in crisis pregnancies, but I had no idea what it would be like to allow people to share part of what my story was to bring them out of the darkness and to choose life or to choose healing.

So early on the Lord kind of threw me right into it.

and I just learned, I learned as I went and I knew, I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew he was gonna teach me along the way.

So we did that for years.

And also I, and there were some Bible studies out there for women, or, well, at that point, we were just focused on women actually.

Yeah.

To who had been through abortion to try to get their mind renewed, you know, and, and start to get some healing.

But the thing I discovered a lot, um, with Chris, with Christians, I mean, this is really common.

I would've said the same thing at one point, if you had asked me anything about my abortion and if I was, you know, if I was gonna get brave enough to tell you, I would tell you, oh, I'm forgiven.

Yeah, I I'm forgiven.

And so that's the end of the story.

I'm forgiven.

Aren't you glad I'm forgiven, you know, that's, that's where I would've ended it.

Like, that's it, that's all, that's all this is about is just get forgiven.

And what I really discovered is that's only the beginning.

Yeah.

Forget forgiveness is only the beginning of your restoration.

Right.

So see forgiveness as canceling your debt.

Okay.

That's but that's it, you can't now, not that there's not healing in that, but it's not the totality of your, it's just you canceled your debt.

You don't owe the debt anymore, but your heart is still shattered.

Your heart is still wounded, you know?

And one of the ways you can, you can tell that, you know, it's kinda like when a doctor, you know, you take all the vital sign to see, I would've said forgiven, but I'm not gonna tell you about my abortion.

I'm not even gonna really say the word yet.

If I don't have to, and I can, I might still be harboring unforgiveness.

I might still be harboring, um, resentment and anger and all these things that we talked about.

And I might still like, if you really tried to ask me how much I feel like God adores me, I would've started crying because he doesn't adore me.

I mean, he's forgiven me, but he doesn't adore me.

So healing is, is like the next step.

And until you get healed, you're not gonna be free.

Now you can get free from like demonic oppression in the sense of the torment.

And you can have your sense forgiven, but your heart needs to be healed.

If you're gonna be able to live out loud, if you're gonna be able to walk in freedom, if you're gonna have the joy of the Lord, and then if you're gonna have enough, um, health in you that you can actually reach out to other people, because until you're healed, you get, you're still very inward looking.

You're still very protective of yourself.

It's all, you know, it's still about you.

And it's still about all your guilt and all your shame and all your regret and all your blah blah.

And you can live like that.

But the Lord has that you're stuck.

You can only be so much of an influence if you're inward focused.

Yeah.

Well, again, that's just, that's amazing to even consider the process of healing, right?

And so you've through God's help.

And a lot of other people, you've kind of created a process to help people to work through that.

Right?

So let, may I give a statistic or two, just to throw a few things out there.

Um, you know, some studies have shown that 70% of American women who have abortion identify themselves as Christian.

And I was certainly in that category, I was a Christian again, I was over, I surrendered to the of all the other lies of the enemy and kind of went down that road.

But if you really, so we have an abortion wounded church, the church of Jesus Christ and not, and not talking, I'm just talking about America at the moment, but just so you know, statistically only 2% of the world's abortions happen in the United States.

98% of the world's abortions happen in other countries and in other nations.

So, so just think about that for a while, but still, and there's another statistic that says 76% of women who have abortion in America say that the local church had no influence on her decision.

So that's very sobering as well.

So what aren't we meeting?

You know, something's not happening if something's not happening.

Right.

And I think part of it is I know, like in my case, I, would've never gotten my voice to speak for life and to speak for truth and speak for healing if I had not been healed.

So if 70% of the people out there having abortions identified themselves as Christian, they're not talking about it.

Right.

And if they're not talking about it, they're not influencing anybody.

They're not letting the truth and they're not letting life be out there.

So, you know, I think just as the church gets healed, as the church gets healed, uh, then we will actually have a voice of authority for the world.

So in the, when I, um, the Lord gave me this idea about, uh, a retreat and there's just certain advantages to a retreat setting that can, um, be more conducive to the healing process than just a Bible study that can be more academic or you can just, it be about getting the homework done.

more than letting it penetrate in you or whatever.

So the Lord gave me this idea.

So, um, so I really kind of started developing it in, in about 2001 after we moved here to Knoxville.

But, um, but we officially became a ministry, uh, organizationally in 2008.

And so we have retreats here, um, up like in Maryville, in, in a mountains above a Maryville back there.

But, um, but also our, our mission though, was not just to do something locally, but it was like, we need to let, we need to let the cat out of the bag.

We need to let people know this is available.

So we, um, we are developing chapters, we call them.

And so we have right now, 24 chapters in the United States right now.

And, and then, but then the Lord also gave us a particular, um, burden for, or yeah, I guess, should say for Chinese, the Lord really wants, wanted to put on our heart.

So he wanted us to really offer this to Chinese, uh, women and men who are abortion wooded.

And if you know any statistics about China and Chinese, I mean, it's some of the most egregious, uh, human rights violations in the sense of not honoring the sanctity of human life.

Right.

Um, so we actually been to China.

We have a, a team there where we've been to Taiwan once we're trying to get to Taiwan again, you know, COVID.

Yeah, but there's a lot of Chinese here in the states.

And so we have a particular Chinese outreach too, but, um, but our retreats are both for men and women.

And so one of the lies is that this is all about women and it's all about women.

And it's all about women.

It's not about women.

Just like if you're a man who has children, you know that there's your child and you know that you have certain responsibility or certain, um, before the Lord, like this is your child.

And so it's the same way with abortion, whether you're the mother or whether you're the father, this was your child and the Lord needs to heal the father's heart.

And he needs to heal the mother's heart.

Cuz your mother and fathering heart get damaged through abortion.

Abortion is not just a surgical procedure.

That's how it's always gonna be marketed to you that this is surgical procedure.

In fact, they even call medical abortions to make it sound like it's something you need something for your health.

Um, 50% of the abortions they're saying now, um, in the United States are, uh, chemical abortions, 50%.

That really shocked me too.

And that came from the guck Institute, which is a kind of a planned parenthood, you know?

So it's like more and more.

It's like, they're trying to take it out of the clinic and take it into your home.

So you can do this whole thing in the privacy of your bathroom and you and those babies are getting flushed down the toilet and, and, and that's, and then she lives with that.

And so it's getting more and more hidden.

And so, you know, uh, we're, we're about to, um, enter into a season.

I believe in the United States where this summer, we really could hear that, um, the, the case that started abortion in our nation Roe versus Wade, that that's about to get dismantled.

I mean, that really is probably gonna happen.

Thank you, Lord.

Yeah.

So, But I think what you need to know is things are gonna get uglier.

Yes.

And things are gonna get more beautiful right.

At the same time.

So, I mean, it's gonna get ugly because you are exposing things that have not been exposed in a way and desperation is gonna come to the surface even more so.

And, but the church needs to get more and more in it.

You need to be in it and it's gonna be beautiful what Jesus does through his church.

But the church has got to be ready for this.

And so I, you know, so my message to churches are you not only need to develop a culture of healing, I mean a culture of life, which you do and you are, but you need to develop a culture of healing.

Amen.

So in other words, if I'm an abortion wounded person and I come into your congregation and let's just say, I'm contemplating to myself, am I ever gonna tell these, am I ever gonna share this among these people?

The question I have in my heart is so even if I do share my abortion wound at heart, what are you people gonna do with me?

That's my real question is what are you people gonna do with me?

If you know the real me, and if you know what I'm carrying, like if I feel like you're people that are gonna accept me, love me and help me get healed, then I'm gonna be much more likely to say, okay, here I am.

But if you give these vibes to me that say, we don't know, you know, you're too much for us or, you know, you're too, whatever.

Then I'm never gonna tell you what's gonna go.

I'm never gonna tell you.

So if we're gonna up be a church that has a culture of healing, you gotta show it.

You gotta demonstrate it.

You gotta say, this is a safe place for the wounded to come.

I was at a church, um, in January and they were just so awesome.

They were such a great church.

And at the end of the service, I've never heard a pastor do this in all my years, the pastor got up and he was like, um, closing.

And he was given an invitation or whatever, but he said this to the Lord.

He said, Lord, for all the abortion, wounded men and women out there, will you send them here?

Yes.

Will you send them to our church?

Amen.

What?

Like, I've never heard a pastor say we it's like more like send them over there cuz we don't know what to do with them.

I was, I was just gonna say that.

That's amazing.

See.

I'm not surprised.

So as, so I'm just saying, um, learn how learn, heal, learn the healing, learn healing, learn how to do healing here.

And I think, you know, you do where your classes or whatever it is that the Lord gives you to learn how to walk people through stages of healing.

Then you're a, you're a church that's equipped to take people beyond, oh, I'm forgiven to I'm healed and step free.

That's what you want.

You want, I'm forgiven, I'm healed, I'm set free,

I'm Free, and I'm helping somebody else.

I'm Helping.

And I'm walking in my destiny that God has for

Me.

Amen.

Yeah, I agree so much.

And uh, we are gonna beginning be beginning something called freedom ministry.

And this is something that we're still formulating working on together as a team.

But we're excited about walking with people through, you know, from very different backgrounds and past experiences.

You know, a lot of people live their lives in the present based on their past.

And we, as Christians are not called to do that.

We're to, we're called to lay aside the things of the past, allow the Lord to heal us and then be moving forward and looking forward to what God's going to do in the future.

So, uh, we want to be a church that provides that type of opportunity for people who are struggling to let go of the things that are very real hurts to them.

Either things that have been done to them or things that they have chosen that they now regret.

And so, uh, let's, let's really be in prayer together concerning this kind of ministry, because I believe that it's, it's very needed very much needed in the culture that we're living in.

So just kind of as a, a wrap up, how do people get connected to you guys?

Yeah.

Um, well I have a, we have a display table out there in the, in the, uh, foyer there, if you wanna come and, um, pick up any of our literature and you know, one of the other things I I wanna say is even if abortion is not your story, I can promise you, it's the story of someone you love.

So even if you're not doing this for you do it for someone you love and you don't even know maybe that person, you might not have knowledge, but I trust, but trust me, there are people that you love that are abortion wounded, and you might be the one conduit.

You might be the bridge to get them for where they're at to a healing.

Our retreats are free of charge.

They're all free of charge free.

And uh, so we raised money obviously to do that.

But um, so this year we just had our spring retreat last weekend and it was very powerful, but we have two more retreats this year.

One is the first weekend in August and one is the second weekend in October.

Um, so I mean, that kind of information is out there, but again, we have, you might have people that live in other parts of the country.

We have different chapters.

Um, and so I read, I wrote a book for maybe people who can't get to a retreat, but maybe they can start somewhere.

Um, so there's a, there's a book about abortion wound and also that the church, um, cuz we fear you.

We fear the church, the abortion when it fears the church.

Yeah.

So how could we break down those walls?

Where, where the church is, what we need more than anything, but we're the most afraid of you, but if you'll show us that you are accept and you're willing to walk with us, then we can trust you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Would you, would you mind just closing us in prayer and I also want you to know that there will be a team of people, some of the prote protecting human life team.

We'll be back in the back along with Ms.

Karen and Arthur and there are some prayer rooms back in the back.

So if anybody needs prayer or you'd like to have prayer today, we wanna make that available to you.

So, um, don't miss out on that opportunity.

Stop by and talk with them and get encouraged and also find out about these, these retreats coming up.

So I ask that you would pray for those who have been wounded.

Also pray that that the Lord would open our hearts to helping to being aware and helping those that are in need.

Father, thank you so much, Lord you're so this is the hour Lord that you, you are so fighting for us.

You're going after your bride, Lord, you want her without spot or wrinkle Jesus, cuz you're coming back for her and you want this bride to be so big and vast and, and worldwide Lord, we do believe you.

You are, um, you you're turning up the heat Lord all across this world because you are about to display yourself more than ever Lord so that your bride can come in, but you want her healed and set free.

Lord, I thank you for this church.

I thank you for Trinity community church, Lord, thank you that their hearts already are wide open to, uh, wanting to develop that culture of life and a culture of healing.

And I pray Lord that you would equip them.

Yes.

That they'd be one of your bodies that, that Jesus would be like, I know I can send you there and you would leave people here.

So Lord would you, as they, you know, get into the freedom ministry, would you just, um, um, allow your people to just receive and, and get revelation and understanding of how to walk someone through just the steps, just the steps so that people can find their voice.

They can find their identity in you and, and live out their destiny father, if there's anyone here this morning, um, who's has this wound or yeah, I know they have loved ones that do Lord.

I, I just pray for special grace and that you would just assure them that you, you wanted them to hear this today because you want them healed and separate.

And so Lord, I just pray.

Thank you for your grace.

So thank you for the leadership here.

And I just ask you, Lord, would you just descend in a season on this church so that they are gonna come through so ready, um, for when the shifts begin to happen in our culture and that this would be part of the beautiful response.

And um, so I thank you Lord.

And I bless this church, Jesus name,

Amen.

And Lord, we thank you that you will continue to, to be with this ministry, Lord, uh, we pray for everyone.

That's involved Lord for your protection over them.

We pray father that you'll continue to give them vision and insight into the future Lord that you'll show them where these chapters need to be established around the world.

We pray father that you will give them the, uh, as much exposure as you desire for them to have.

And Lord, we pray that you would give them, um, volunteers and those who would work even on staff Lord, that would be, um, the right combination for this ministry to really be, uh, multiplied in so many ways.

And Lord, if we pray that you would protect them from anything, anything that the hand of the enemy would try to bring against them as they stand in the gap in this very important place.

And, and Lord, we just thank you for them.

We ask that there would be joy in serving, um, that as they begin to, even though they're dealing with some of the most difficult hurts that any human being can experience Lord, that there would be joy in walking with people on their journey to freedom and to healing and, and just bless them financially, take care of every one of their needs.

And we thank you for them father in Jesus name.

Amen.