How Do We ACTUALLY Love Our Enemies? (Luke 6:27-36) - Podcast Episode 16

Hey friends, welcome to another episode of our podcast here at

KPC. We are thrilled to have you and

glad that you may be listening wherever you are into your week.

It is. It's a Wednesday for us, so a

little bit later in the week, we're getting ready for our

community Bible study. Week 3 of Bible study happening

tonight. So listen, yeah, the eager ones

may listen to this before Community Bible study tonight.

Not likely at this point in our day.

Will it be published before Community?

Bible study behind officially now, but that's OK.

It was a long weekend here in Canada, and we took Monday off.

We did Nice. Yeah.

We did two yeah, assemble various outdoor cooking utensils

and throw out various backs. It was a good long weekend.

We are hopping into a conversation on Luke chapter 6,

Luke 6 · chapter mention

which will surprise nobody who's been following.

We've been in Luke 6 now for I can't remember how many weeks

this is. I think this is actually just

week 3 of Luke 6, but six verse 27 to 36, which is in many

Bibles titled subtitled Loving your enemies or Love for

enemies. And Justin, I love the way that

you started off Sunday after I got my kids dropped off

frantically to kids own like Sunday school and then made it

back into the sanctuary. I think I caught just that that

one line, He said. Something along the lines of

like this might be the easiest passage to intellectually

understand, but the hardest passage in the Bible to actually

do the thing. It's kind of like it's Sunday

school 101, right? You know, like what do you what

do you learn when you are like first learning is like love,

love everybody, right and, and that everybody period, right.

And and obviously enemies and we'll unpack a little bit more

of that, but like that are included in that.

Yeah. So do you wanna read it quickly?

It's not long. And then, yeah, we can hop into

some questions. Sure.

So Luke 627 to 36 But to you who are listening I say, love your

enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse

you, pray for those who mistreat you.

If someone slaps you on the cheek, turn to them the other.

Also, if someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt

from them. Give to everyone who asks you,

and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back

due to others as you would have them do to you.

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?

Even sinners do that. Do love those who love them?

And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is

that to you? Even sinners do that.

And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what

credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners

expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good

to them, Lend to them without expecting.

Get to get anything back. Then your reward will be great,

and you will be children of the Most High, because He is kind to

the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father

is merciful. Let's like, I mean, it's a

powerful verse or series of verses.

Like you said. I think it's fairly easy to

understand what Jesus is saying. Really hard to walk out.

Yeah, really hard to actually do.

And I'm not going to lie, like I think part of it is because he

starts off with the hardest one. Love your enemies.

Yeah, do good to those who hate you.

In some it it's really interesting that how different

versions translate that opening line.

But to you who are listening, I say, because some of the

translations read something along the lines of actually more

literally like listen to you, I say, or to you I say listen,

love your enemies. It's almost like it's almost

like a command. The listen, you know he he it's

it's though it is like those who are hearing but.

Really wants us to hear this. Yeah, absolutely.

I think that's absolutely. He's like, guys, if you were

nodding off a little bit, like, come on, listen.

Pay attention, Pay attention. And you know, the word there

does have a lot to do with hearing, but the implication of

it isn't just the act of hearing.

And I think like any parent is gonna be sitting there going,

huh, I know this difference. I know what's about to come out

of that guy's mouth before I've even said it.

It's not words going into my ears and my knowing them.

It is this. It is this hearing to comprehend

or comprehending by hearing, by listening.

There's an intentional act here required Jesus saying sit up,

pay attention, listen, and then comprehend what I'm telling you

to do and, and go and do it. So there's a lot of even just

wrapped up there, but I thought it might be helpful for us to

start off with just some quick recap from Sunday.

You used 3 words fairly regularly through the sermon

that would be helpful for us to just redefine.

And the first is, is love. But in this context, it's agape

love, it's divine God toward humanity love.

It's very specific and I think you called it self sacrificial

and had another. So let's redefine that.

And then also grace and mercy because I really appreciated how

you pointed out that credit there.

Like what credit is that to you is actually Keras?

Like it's the Greek word for grace.

What grace is it to you or how are you ungracious?

You know, if everybody does that, then there's no grace

there. You know, is, is essentially, I

think what you what you brought to light for everybody, which is

is helpful. So love agape, love, grace and

mercy. Hmm, Yeah, love.

I think the, the biggest take away that I could say is, is

that the word love, the word agape here, it does not require

emotion in the way that we would consider, you know, when I say I

love my, my wife, there is an implied degree of emotion.

When I say I love my, my daughter, there is an implied

degree of emotion there. Agape love does not require that

it is, I think I said this, it's an act of the will.

And and so we have to separate what our modern Western

understanding of love is for us to actually understand what

Jesus is saying here. Yeah, that's where it is.

You know, I think it's, it's clear what Jesus is saying, but

there are some nuances that make help our understanding and

that's one of them. It, it's and I it's, it's

freeing. It's it is freeing that we are

not like, OK, great. I don't have to have warm

fuzzies toward a dictator, you know, in my call to love

everyone, including those who hate me or are actively seeking

to harm me in some way. I, I don't need to have some

sort of like, you know, emotional response other than

hey, I, I, I love you because God calls me to you.

It is the right thing to do. I, I and I will seek good for

you regardless of how you treat me.

You know that is an act of the will, not an emotion.

Act of will, I think is a really helpful way.

Like there's a whole generation of us who maybe grew up on DC.

Talk by love is a verb and was my.

Very first cassette. As my very first, this is like

CD that I bought. Yeah, see.

That's where like, you're a couple years younger than me, so

yeah. Yeah.

There's this CD I think I. Still have that CD I lost.

It and then bought it again. And still have it I.

Don't. No, sadly.

Twice over me, yeah. Twice.

But I think so here, here's what I really appreciate about your

definition. I don't need to convince myself

to feel a certain way about somebody to accomplish what

Jesus is commanding us to accomplish here.

He's not saying feel differently about that person who harms you,

right? And it like it feels like you

betray your emotions and you betray yourself in some way,

your experience, all of what you're feeling, right?

As you know, as helpful and unhelpful as emotions can be,

you know they are both. Yes, but but you know what Jesus

is not saying here is feel differently about somebody.

He's saying act differently towards someone.

Yes, and one. Is not just simply not

attainable in some scenarios and the other is.

And you can't, it's another thing where you can't just like

fake it till you make it. It's not, it's not that either.

It's not like, well, if I just act on this, I will eventually

have some affection. No, that that might never

happen. When you're dealing with

difficult people, the expectation is not that I will

eventually feel warmly toward them.

That is not what we're talking about here.

Yeah. Yeah.

So. And we're going to come back to

that because I think you rightly, you pointed out just

the the nuance and difficulty of enemy and who we read in as

enemy. And what does this mean for

somebody who has been abused with their abuser?

And there are some lines that I think the Christian Church have

like fuzzed and crossed. And, you know, you were very

crystal clear, like this is not in any way Jesus saying remain

in a in an abusive relationship and turn the other cheek to

physical abuse and violence. Like he's being very clear here.

This is not that. And you were clear on Sunday

with that, which I appreciate. And come back to all that by way

of some conversation around how to proceed in more difficult

scenarios and circumstances. But give us grace and mercy and

then we'll hop into the other questions.

Yeah. So, so grace when he's, when

he's using that word grace, what credit is that to you?

What grace is that to you? How are you being gracious?

How are you offering, extending a gift?

Because grace can also be understood as a gift.

It is it is something that you are an unmerited gift that that

they are recipients of. And I think in this context, you

could you could look at, you know, say for instance, I

brought you a gift. I mean, maybe you deserved it,

maybe you didn't. Somebody.

Somebody brought us a gift this morning.

Yeah, those little cookies, yeah.

Exactly. Yeah, it was a wonderful.

It's delightful. Yeah, we might.

Not deserve it. We might.

Not have deserved it, but you know, maybe maybe we earned it

in some way. Maybe, you know, maybe we're

like, anyway, the the point that Jesus is making here is that

when you do this, you need to be able to do it for people that

definitely didn't earn it, because otherwise it's, it's not

grace. It's not, it's it.

This is not a a gift. This is not offering something

that is of meaning or value. If if they're just people that

are your, are your peers, your equals, people that you are on

good footing with, It feels a little bit, it's not selfless.

It's not selfless if, if we are reciprocating gifts for one

another, you know, if we have an arrangement that you know, you

buy me a slice of pizza this week and I buy you a slice of

pizza next week, it's not really a gift.

No, no, no. And there's like, it's purely

transactional. Yeah.

This is like the teaching team we were talking about a couple

different examples. So this is like the team who

gets together ahead of the community Bible study talk

through the passage. What are we hoping for people to

move through questions that we're anticipating, all that

kind of stuff. And then a few of those people

are the ones leading it on Wednesday night, just in case

you're flying in blind on what some of these words mean.

There. There are these shows, right

where like The Big Bang Theory and Sheldon Cooper just not

being able to receive a gift. And he's like, he's like, I

can't. He just overly gives back

because he's it's gotta be equal for this guy.

Or in New Girl where two of the characters go bezerk because one

gives the other a cookie and he's like, yeah, you, you gave

me a cookie. I give you the cookie back.

We're even like we're equal. I don't know how to how our

friendship can't progress unless you unless you take this cookie

back. And like, that's not that's not

what what grace is pointing us toward.

I like talking about grace as unmerited favor.

Hmm. So it is it's it's unmerited and

it's favor. It is something added to giving

toward graciousness. It's a gift.

It's Yeah. OK.

And mercy versus. Mercy, which is not receiving

and you, you phrase this better than I did, but let me just try

to work this out a little bit because it's always helpful to

to work in a real time. Mercy is, is sort of the

negation of, of grace is sort of the negative version of that

there where we ought to receive something usually like a

punishment and we do not receive it.

It it has been. So in the case of, you know,

like a judge and you're in a courtroom scenario.

Just The thing is, the easiest to think about is they're about

to pronounce a judgment because you did something wrong that you

ought that you ought not have done.

And instead of punishing, the punishment is withdrawn.

You know that's a mercy, right? Yep.

They'll look at something in your life, say like, well, they

haven't. They had a rough upbringing and

they're they're doing hard work to get themselves in good order.

So I'm going to extend mercy to you.

If I get a speeding ticket or if I'm, if I get pulled over

speeding or if I blow through a red light and the cop comes up

and he's like, listen, like I got you on camera.

Like, yeah, you're doing 100 and the speed limit is 80 or you

went through the light. It was red.

It wasn't yellow, no matter how many times you think you saw it

like it was red. And instead of ticket you're

given a warning like that's mercy.

That's what mercy is. It is withholding punishment

where punishment was due. Can I?

Confess something? Yeah, one time I got pulled

over. It's like 10 years ago and I was

right at the end of like, it had a series of, let's say less than

stellar driving activity and, and I was almost at the point of

like, I would have almost lost my license.

Oh. No, I.

I haven't had a ticket in over 10 years so this.

Is where we're gonna go back a little ways.

Disclaimer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

OK. Younger, more reckless years.

I could not get a ticket. So I I literally begged the

officer for mercy. Like I used the word can you

please have mercy? Yeah, like I'm, I'm trying to

write this shit, but this isn't gonna help me.

This is this is the tipping me in the other direction.

Yeah. And.

He he knocked it down to just like the kind of 15 / 15, no.

Points. No point he had.

Mercy he had. Mercy.

Yeah, still, you know, digging me 50 bucks, you know, but had

mercy. Yeah, withholding something that

is warranted, right, That is unreserved.

It I deserve that. I was definitely driving 30

over. Yeah, yeah.

So like Grace is getting something that you don't

deserve, and we're talking like a positive in a positive way.

Receive Receiving it as a gift, given that you don't deserve

mercy is withholding A punishment that you would

deserve or do deserve. And in the context of this

passage, we are talking about people that hate us.

Therefore it's very easy to say, well, you don't deserve my agape

love. You don't.

You're not deserving of me to, to lend to you to, to extend you

grace, to extend you mercy. And, and so it, it's very

practical here. And, and God in the end is

driving home the point. OK, I, I've been gracious to

you. I've given you gifts that you

didn't deserve. I've been merciful.

I haven't done the thing to you that that you, you do deserve.

So do the same. You know, you have been, and I

think that this is strong language that I think I could

back this up, that, you know, there have been times where

people are enemies of God in some way.

And yet God extends grace and God extends mercy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you read a verse like

while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Grace, mercy, that's. That did both of the things

right. Yeah.

And so, yeah, God says, and you put this right, they like go and

live differently because of because of what you've received.

Like, yeah, yeah. It really, Yeah.

It's hard to describe in words. I try to draw it out and it's

still, it's hard to, you know, picture, but it takes the

transactional between like human to human and puts all of all of

the burden of the transaction on God.

So the way I treat you is not based on the way you treat me.

The way I treat you is based on the way God has treated me.

Yes. Yeah, right.

And the way you treat me is not based on what I do to you.

It's based on what God has given you.

And you know, like, I think like human beings, like we, we like

transaction, like we like, like the simplicity of it.

And sometimes I find that's just helpful.

Like it, it, it shifts it from this horizontal person to person

and it puts all of the burden on God.

So God's been the one who's given grace and mercy.

He has been kind and loving and that out of that storehouse that

we're called to act toward the other.

That's great. Hmm.

That's good. So in that vein, ish, that vein

adjacent, we've been talking around this idea of loving

enemy. You asked on Sunday and had us

thinking through like, who is my enemy?

And I wanted to push that a little further.

And, um, I think that's a good question to ask.

I wonder, can there also be, do you think, a danger in US maybe

being a little bit too zealous to name enemies?

Is there something there that maybe we like to grab on to as

human beings? How do we navigate that tension?

Jesus saying very clearly, like, love your enemy.

The implication is you have enemies.

There's other questions like does he mean enemy to you

exclusively or is this still is this A tag on those who hate you

and persecute you because of the Son of man like those who are

you are your enemy because of Jesus ask.

That question, didn't we? Yeah.

So like, is this just my enemy or is this someone who's an

enemy toward me because of actually because of what Jesus

has done all of that. But so do you think we can jump

to naming enemies too quickly? And how can we resist that a

little bit? OK, so I think Christians, not

all Christians, but some Christians can jump to having a

persecution complex. And as I said on Sunday, there

are Christians around the world who are facing genuine threat of

imprisonment for for even just gathering to worship and to read

the Scripture and to sing together.

You know, that's a very real thing, but.

Lots of contacts where that is not the case.

And yet Christians and any potential removal of freedom or

any sort of even perceived removal of freedom of any kind

or you know, just a realignment with a waning Western

Christianity, I will cry persecution.

Hmm. I say we not me personally I I

try my best to not do that. So I do think some Christians

can jump to using the word enemy too quickly.

Hmm, I think I asked you the opposite.

Hmm. So I am very hesitant, almost

perhaps to a detriment. I am almost hesitant to use the

word. I don't think the word in our

modern vernacular. I don't think it represents what

what Jesus is intending here. Hmm.

The problem is again, we don't have a good word, one word that

encapsulates what Jesus is saying, which I believe to be

when Jesus says love your enemies, I said they would have

heard it as love your Roman occupiers.

Maybe if you were in a particular sect of Judaism, it

would have been against other other sects within Judaism.

Maybe skip ahead of the 100 a few 100 years and maybe there it

would be for Christians and or Jews to love one another because

they were hateful toward one another, Christians and Muslims,

Jews and Muslims, right, so on and so forth.

Go go through history. You can name lots of enemies to

one another, and here we are in North America.

I don't have a great category for that.

I do have a great category for people who seem to be hateful

toward me, toward people who seek to harm me in some way.

Hmm. Toward people who are actively

seeking to bring the work of the church down or even the work of

a particular church down to yeah, like so I think there

there are many ways in which we could understand enemy in a

modern context, but to the point where for most contexts that we

encounter, at least here in the West, I don't know that enemy is

the best word because of the connotation that makes sense.

Yeah, No, I think that's helpful.

Like when I so my default is to look up definitions of all these

words out of concordances and what do?

You got. Yeah, I, I mean a lot.

I mean, there's a lot. And some of some of the

definition doesn't help and some does help because you know, when

I'm looking at like the Greek language across being the word

for enemy here, it just says properly an enemy.

But I'm like so OK, great, fine still.

But then it starts to break it down.

Somebody openly hostile, so openly hostile towards me.

Irreconcilable hostility. Right Bent on inflicting arm.

Yeah. And that one I go, OK, now it

starts to make sense because that I think we do.

You're right. We do have categories for people

who just seem, for whatever reason, bent on on causing harm.

Yeah. And you know, that harm could be

physical. It could be emotional,

psychological, spiritual. There's a lot of different ways

in which we now understand harm. Harm can be a little nebulous in

and of itself. For sure, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think that's that's the piece where where Jesus says no

love, love your enemies, and then he almost clarifies it.

Prey do good for those who hate you, bless those who curse you

and pray for those who mistreat you and so he's he's almost

saying love your enemies. What do I mean by that?

Here's. Some examples do.

Yeah, Do good to those who hate you.

Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who mistreat you.

And so he's giving. It's like he's giving the

disciples and those early followers trying to live life

inside the Kingdom. He's giving them some really

fast answers to questions. Be like, well, who's my enemy?

No, stop it. If somebody hates you, do good

to them. Right.

OK, well, what about like, if they curse me?

Well, bless them, right? What is the if if to to curse,

to speak ill of somebody who says speak well of them?

Yes, like so he's he's literally turning all of these things.

So to somebody who hates you, do good, like fill the void that is

the evil or the darkness with what is good and light and full

of the Kingdom. So now we've got some really

concrete things. Pray for those who mistreat you.

And I think prayer in that moment, like we could be praying

for them, maybe that God would change their hearts that God

would, that that God would change the trajectory of their

life in some way. Hmm.

But there's also like an effectiveness in praying because

of what it does for me, right? That if I am saying God, I want

to pray for this person that is hurting me, that is abusing me,

It it's it's about God, we pray transforming them, but also it's

gonna transform me and my heart toward that person.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So continuing on through, we've

got this, these commands give to everybody who asks, but if

somebody takes what belongs to you, don't demand it back due to

others as you would have them do to you.

And then he double s down, right?

Jesus double s down. And it's like, if you love those

who love you, what credit does that to you?

Like, who cares? Even sinners do that.

Like, come on, like how are you any different?

And the implication is you're not.

You're not any different than anybody else if you do this.

Everybody does this. This is like base human

expectation, but we get this line.

I think it's verse yeah, verse 35.

Then your reward will be great and you will be children of the

Most High again. I love how you broke that down.

Your reward will be great. dot dot dot.

In other words, yeah, read it this way.

You will be children of the Most High.

That's the reward. This is proof that you're living

inside the Kingdom. And there's benefit to living

inside the Kingdom. Absolutely there is.

I guess my question is, and I've I along with others, this is,

this is not, you know, just this me.

Um, but through all of chapter 6, is it not just in some way

Christian karma, like we've been wrestling out this tension

between like, do, do what's right?

Yeah, not to get a reward, but you'll also get a reward.

Like don't be like everybody else be like this.

But if you give, you're going to give, you're going to get back.

And we're going to see it again this like tonight at tonight's

Bible study on Wednesday, whenever this is for you.

Today doesn't work on podcasts. I realize that.

But like, as we continue through 6 chapter 6, we're going to see

even more of this. Do good and it will come back.

Good will be done to you. We're going to talk about a

great measure being shaken up and then poured out on your lap.

Like if you do good, you're gonna receive a great measure of

good things. How is it not just Christian

karma? It's OK.

It's a good thought. So and actually someone, now

that you say that someone at my table group actually did say and

there's someone who they're, you know, I think relatively new to

faith in various ways. They were like this actually,

like this kind of seems like what goes around comes around,

you know? And I was like, oh, like,

that's, that's interesting. That's interesting that that

someone who is less familiar for those of us who have grown up

the church, we probably read this a number of times over the

years. They're less familiar with this.

And they pulled out the Karma card, you know, OK, so where

does it where does it differ in my mind?

There, there is some overlap right there.

I mean, in the same way that the golden rule, as we said it's it

is found it almost codified in every culture people group

across time ever since civilization, that has been some

rule, right? Maybe not an official law, but

it's you know, but the one thing to note is that Jesus is

inversion of it leans positive due to others as you would have

them do to you. A lot of the other ones are more

along the lines of don't do to others what you don't want them

to do to you. Like that's like it's, it's a

little bit more passive and Jesus is more active and

positive. So it's one thing to note.

So the distinguishing feature for me that separates it from

karma has got to be grace and mercy.

There's gotta be grace and mercy in, in that you could claim that

when you know, when bad things are happening to someone, even

to yourself, you know, then it causes us to reflect what have,

what have I done? You know, cause if, if it's, if

it's gone around, it's now come back to me.

And, and I apologize if this is a very rudimentary understanding

of karma. I am not an expert on Eastern

religion. So, but, but I, I, I think that

when we take a, when we take away grace and mercy from the

equation, it kind of is karma that you'll get what you deserve

and and you'll get what you get. In this case, Jesus is saying

even if someone doesn't deserve something, even if someone is

quote UN quote, undeserving of love extended anyway.

Hmm. That that is the way of the

Kingdom and, and in some ways karma is based on fairness, that

it, it feels fair. And I would argue that much of

Jesus's ministry and his his entire life and his death and

resurrection are about what is not fair.

That, that it is not fair that Jesus took that upon himself for

me. It is not fair that I as a, as a

broken, sinful human, get to receive the benefit of that.

Right. Yeah.

And and so that is where karma while there, I think you could

actually draw some other passages from the the rest of

Scripture that have a little little inkling of that, right.

But Jesus kind of blows it up. Yep.

Yeah, the cross kind of interrupts.

I think the cross interrupts the flow of karma as it were, right?

Yeah, Yeah, I think one of the other things that's worth

noting. And again, it's been a minute

since we've spent time studying, since I've spent time studying

Eastern religions. So again, intro very rudimentary

understanding here in what I'm about to say, but karma in most

of the way it's spoken about is toward freedom of suffering.

So the end result or the ultimate result of buildup of

karma is these cycles of birth, rebirth toward freedom, release

from suffering. That's back to me now.

That's. The ultimate goal is to release

your body, your soul, your mind, your spirit from suffering.

And so yeah, like the what goes around comes around is kind of

like colloquial everyday. This is how we understand life.

Like if I do this, you know, yeah, this is going back.

Exactly. Proper understanding of karma

includes this toward an end. And that end is freedom of

suffering. And Jesus actually says no.

The way the way into the Kingdom is by is through suffering.

And you see that even in this passage, there was a number of

commentators, I can't recall which ones off the top of my

head, that highlighted this idea that Jesus is actually calling

us in some ways to suffer here. That there is a that there is a,

a pain of sorts in, in laying down our pride, in laying down

what we think is right and just and saying, I, we'll choose a

better way. I will choose a higher way that

is something that is so difficult to do and it and it's

there's there's suffering and sacrifice in that process and.

That's why it's important that we start with self sacrificial

love. Yes.

Right, that's the understanding of agape love has being one that

is willing to sacrifice of self for the other, which in my mind

is just completely blows up the idea of it being Christian karma

because it can't be that. Yep.

No, I love it. I think that's great.

OK, moving on some of the other questions that we've been we've

been talking around, I think would be good to land on in some

specific ways. So we talked just briefly today,

and you mentioned loving people when life is hard, when

relationships are difficult, when there is even, you know,

degrees of abuse, when you have a dysfunctional, broken

relationship that can't be mended for one reason or

another. What does it begin to look like

to love in those contexts? Yeah.

And, you know, like, let's just double down again on this idea.

Like loving somebody doesn't mean being a doormat.

Yeah, getting walked all over, trampled, putting ourselves in

unsafe situation time and time again.

So help us understand love and boundaries.

OHS, funny you mentioned that, right?

Well, Yep. Where to go OHS there's this

book here I just found on the ground just.

Like that it's. It's called Boundaries.

It's been a minute since I've I've.

I have read that book. Yeah, but Grant put that in my

lap. Right here here.

Here I'm going to prom you for a question talk about this.

No boundaries is kind of the answer in some ways in that it

is not. It is not a requirement for me

to be in regular and direct communication with someone for

me to love them. Hmm.

I have friends who I love that I haven't seen in several years.

You know, one of them called me out of the blue yesterday, which

was kind of a nice little surprise.

Hmm. I was like getting gas and, and

he called me up and I was like, dude, like it's been so good to

hear your voice, you know, but I haven't seen him in like 3

years, you know, I'd like to change that.

But in the same way, you know for people that that are

difficult, people that have been abusive, say you have a like a

narcissistic relative, say you have an abusive relative or

friend or whatever. Sometimes the most loving thing

we can do is have boundaries and, and say I, I love you and I

love you too much to allow this to continue.

Yeah. And I, and I have friends and

family who have, who have made that hard call with, with direct

family members saying I cannot be in a, in a, an active

relationship with you right now. You can still say you love that

person in the same way that again, with agape love, it

doesn't require feelings. It doesn't even require that I

know the person that I can, I can say regarding, you know,

I'll just use the easiest example in the world.

If I lived, you know, if I lived in the 1940s, you know, like to

be able to say I, I have to, God calls me to love Hitler.

Like that's, that's a, you know, obviously a bit of a

stereotypical example, but I think it drives home the point.

I I likely would have never met Hitler had I lived in the 40s.

And yet that does not require me to be in relationship with them

actively. Hmm.

But I think that that's a little bit too obviously I there of an

example like like bring it home again, a little bit more to

family. If I have a family member that

is acting and behaving poorly to me, I don't have to put up with

that. I don't have to be a doormat.

I can be, I can be in whatever level of communication I am

comfortable with, right? That if their presence is

challenging to me or to use more of like a like the clinical word

activating to me, I don't have to do that.

I don't have to be in, in their presence.

I've done that with family myself.

There I had a family member that I did not see for 2-3 years

because I I said I I cannot do this right now.

And that was arguably the most loving thing I could have done

in that moment. Hmm.

So that's what I want to press in on because I think that we

can sometimes, yeah. Like in here's here's the

interesting thing. I think we do this to ourselves

like a very rarely do I hear somebody else say to like a

friend or family member, oh, you have to love that person.

You're a Christian. Like, you know, we do this

ourselves, though we think God calls me to be loving.

So therefore I need to do AB and C.

Inside, I gotta set aside these these awful feelings I'm having

inside. Yeah.

But feelings in this case that I think we should honor, you know,

feelings that are probably there for a reason, just to keep the

peace, right? Or continue to put myself into a

situation where I continue to receive harm.

Yeah, right. Because, well, that's what God

calls me to love this person. So I need to go to that family

dinner every week, or I need to go to that, you know, enter into

the relationship whatever capacity I need to see that

person, etc. And I think the thing that we

all need to wrestle with. Is the reality that, like you

said, sometimes the most loving thing is to establish boundary

because for variety of reasons, but one of them, the not the

least significant is if I, if I and like I, I don't, I'm not

actively in this situation right now.

Like I don't, I don't have this situation in my life.

But if I'm continuing to put myself into a relationship and

invest in a relationship where I'm continuing to be hurt, well,

then what am I also doing? I'm continuing to enable that

person to hurt. And so it's this, it is this

cycle that is only going to have a potential for healing if it's

arrested, that cycle needs to be broken.

So in order for there to be repair in any relationship,

there also needs to be rupture and sometimes boundary is

required. You know, the in in the long

term. Now, I'm I'm not saying that

every single relationship is gonna have this degree of

healing. No, many won't, and that's OK.

Absolutely. But I think what many of us need

to hear is that reality that to continue to put yourself in that

situation is not only doing yourself harm, but it's

continuing to allow somebody else to perpetrate harm.

And sometimes that boundary, like that boundary is good.

Yeah. And sometimes that boundary can

be a wake up call for somebody. Yeah.

And somebody needs, you know, a family member or friend or

somebody they love and think they love and respect and are

actually harming and hurting to say, OK, no more of this.

I'm not going to put myself in this situation.

The onus is now on you to to realize and recognize what

rupture has occurred, like what brokenness has taken place, and

to move into it now. I guess that's like, I, I think

I'm an optimist most of the time.

It's not, you know, it, it, it not everything is going to be

neatly tied up and, and fixed in the end.

But I think, too, I see too many people continuing to put

themselves in harm's way because they think that being actively

engaged in the relationship in exactly the way everybody

expects and wants is the loving thing to do.

Yeah. And what we're saying is it's

not. And I will say I know there's a

story of someone I know who they were in an abusive marriage and

they tried to leave. They tried to, you know, assert

themselves and they went to the persons church.

This is not anywhere in this area.

So it's, you know, this is many years ago, they went to the

church and the church said you need to go back and you need to

submit. Hmm.

And you need to, you know, Yep. Just just endure, you know, and,

and, and so I, I want to say very clearly that that is

antithetical to what Jesus is saying.

And nowhere is that an acceptable thing for a church to

say or do. Yep.

Unlike physically reacting, Yeah, I'm physically because I

have family who went through that exact not, Yeah, like

extended family who went through that exact same scenario and who

have all walked away from the church because of that exact

reality. And like, it breaks my heart and

it also makes me really angry and so.

Angry. And I said that to the person.

I said, like, I am so angry on your behalf that that church

betrayed in that way. Yeah, you know, And that was

like a good moment of healing for her where, where she was

able to to rag realize like, OK, not all, not all churches are

like that. Yeah, so that was hard, but

super, super meaningful to be able to unpack that with her and

to untangle some of the stuff that that, you know, Christians,

unfortunately can someone's weaponized scripture to to fit a

particular belief structure. And I would say that is the

opposite of what Jesus is saying here.

Hmm. In in Jesus is examples.

They are in some ways about the person asserting themselves.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I appreciate you saying that.

And I think the sad reality is that this is the common, it

seems like common place that many people have these same

stories. And you know, I think about now

how many generations have been impacted by, you know, my like,

yeah, a, a family, yeah, that is now 3 generations impacted

because of that exact decision. Yeah, 3 generations not engaged

at all with church or faith or yeah, any any type type of

meaningful spiritual practice. Yeah, because of 11 church, Hmm,

interacting with one couple. OK, so not to do like a harsh

transition here, but harsh transition is hard.

It's hard to. Transition out of that.

Let's talk about the positive potential here, right?

Because I think we could go through many different

iterations of where we've seen churches and people and where we

ourselves have failed at doing this.

Well, let's talk about the positive side, which is like,

yeah, I got a neighbor. And, you know, that neighbor's

constantly, you know, the aggressor.

Yeah. Not in like overly egregious

ways, but inconsistent and yeah, negative ways.

Or the, I don't know, the same car that cuts you off at the

same point of your commute every single day now, but just like

the the everyday moments of life where we can begin to flip the

script because that's really what Jesus is saying.

Flip the script, right? Somebody slaps you across the

face. They are claiming authority over

you. They've taken something from

you. He says no, turn the other

cheek, force them to slap you with the front side of their

hand, which I love the your like demonstration of all of that,

but what does? Individual.

Me too. Yeah.

What does that say? Is it is it reclaims not

authority over that person, but it reclaims equality?

Yeah, that's what Jesus is saying.

He's like, don't let anybody take from you what is given by

God. And so you're saying, hey, like,

maintain equal footing. I don't know.

How do we begin to love our everyday enemies?

Yeah, because I mean, the reality is in most of our lives,

we are we this is gonna come up with family, neighbors,

coworkers, things like that, right.

You know, very, very rarely, I can't, I can't think of a entity

like a, a government or a nation or a people group that is

currently actively working against me.

Now that may not be the case for everyone, but in general, this

becomes at a very personal level of the spheres in which we find

ourselves every day. Right.

So like I'm trying to think of a simple example and I don't want

to provide an example where I've done it poorly because I have

done it poorly. But you know, would Love

Actually, I'm going to use my my neighbor as a positive example.

OK, so, so my neighbor, nice guy, nice guy, a little, a

little rowdy, like, you know, he's a, you know, anyway, he

often has parties and whatnot. So a number of years ago, New

Year's Eve, fireworks went off not at midnight as they

intended. I went off at about 3:00 AM, I

think. I think they had too much to

drink and. They celebrated New Year's in

Vancouver. That's right, that's right.

So they they they missed it and we're like, oh, shoot, we better

use our fireworks and wake the whole neighborhood in the

neighborhood was not happy. What I appreciate though, So I

was messaging him the next day and and was like, hey, I got

like fireworks shells all over my yard and car and driveway and

and he was like, dude, I'm so sorry.

Like I'm gonna come by and clean it up once I'm, you know, up and

out, I'm no problem. Got this.

I'll take care of it. And ever since then, ever since

then, this has been really cool. So all of a sudden he's been

inviting us to like some of us like he bought a smoker and like

had a whole bunch of people over for big for a big get together

for dinner last year. And then this past weekend, it

was Victoria Day weekend here in Canada and and he was like about

fireworks. I'm going to go do it at the

corner lot that's empty. Why don't you and your daughter

come out and watch the fireworks?

At 8:30 PM. At an appropriate, it was more

like 930, but I let her stay up late, you know, so like, and it

was actually like a beautiful little like, I don't know, like

a good. I think that could have gone

real sour. Yeah.

You know, for on both of our ends.

Yeah, right. It could have gone real sour

where I could have really dug my heels in and said like, bro,

you're you are destroying my stuff.

He didn't actually destroy anything.

But like, you know, I could have exaggerated.

I could have gotten very offended, but I was like, man,

that's not a good way to be a neighbor, you know?

And and I think equally him on the other hand, he was like, OK,

I need to maybe temper things a little bit here, you know, and I

was like, that's actually a beautiful picture of what good

neighboring it. It was not perfect.

You know, there are times when when, you know, we have to cover

our child's ears when we're outside.

But it's, it's really like, I think there's something

beautiful there. Yeah.

But I recognize that sometimes we are trying with our neighbors

and they are not always going to reciprocate in that way.

I I'm almost tempted to use the kind of it's a cliched phrase,

but I almost feel like killing with kindness.

Like keep going. Don't let them get the better of

you. Hmm, drop, drop off a, you know,

a box of cookies and a note and maybe even in that note because

in in in efforts of not being, you know, a, you know, a

doormat. If there's something that

they're doing that is bugging the heck out of you, maybe like

put in a little, a little reminder.

Hey, love being your neighbor. Wonder if we could work on this.

And if they still don't reciprocate, keep going, keep

going. They will be frustrated by how

how happy you are. Maybe that's idealistic.

Maybe that is is to, you know, yeah, too optimistic about human

nature. But I like to think that if we

can maintain a level head, not allow our emotions, the negative

emotions to get in the way, that we could actually make a

difference. Yeah.

Yeah, I love. I think you had a line in your

sermon that said something I'm I'm gonna miss.

Quote it, but resist the temptation to fight back and try

to be reflective instead of reactive.

Um, yeah, my kids are watching Daniel Tiger.

He sings a song. I'm not gonna sing it because

when you feel so mad that you wanna roar, take a deep breath

and count to 4. I love that.

Anyway, so we're working on that one, but like I, I, I like that.

Keep going. There is a call to perseverance

and just steady doing the next right thing because it's the

right thing. And don't get sucked into this

for that and back and forth. Don't get sucked down to

someone's level. Don't get pulled over like, you

know, don't allow somebody else to define who and how you are

right is really, I think what what we're after.

You had another line that you brought up and I think it was a

quote from somebody, and I don't remember off the top of my head

who it was, but who said the Christian is the one who does

the extra thing? Yes, William Barclay, the

Christian ethic is, yeah, the Christian ethic is the extra

thing to do. The extra thing?

Doing the extra thing, yeah, that, that that was a really

helpful line because it doesn't have to be a big thing.

Hmm. It's just the extra thing a

little. Bit more, yeah.

Yeah, I, I didn't use this example in in the sermon, but it

it made me think of it made me think of when Steve Jobs was

still with us and would do his Big Apple presentations.

I always watch them and then he always go one more thing.

Yeah, one more, one more. And then it was the biggest

thing. No, I know everybody.

Knew. And that was kind of bring in my

mind a little bit. I was like, you know what?

Everything was kind of status quo.

And then one more thing. Oh, you know, yeah, yeah.

It could be cool for Christians to live that way.

One. More thing.

Yeah. And sorry, was there more to

that question or just muse on that or?

No, no, exactly that I think. I think that's language that

helps maybe for this to resonate every day.

Supposed to, you know, I like I think our minds naturally go to

the biggest and baddest of situations and enemies and

etcetera. And we lose sight of the fact

that really what Jesus is doing here is giving like it's this is

Christian ethics for the road. This is for, for, you know, on

the way in the, you know, on the journey, in the course of life.

They're they're not, they're not like he's not got a solution and

a scenario for every single thing that's going to happen to

you, right? This is not, it's not a manual

to be like, well, so buddy cut me off when I was already

stopped at a stop sign and he blew through.

So I'm like, you can't find that page where Jesus says if this,

then that, right? That's not exactly what he's

after. It's not a if this then that

sort of solution to everything. What it is, is a general way of

being that defines the Christian, or the one who's

living inside the Kingdom, as being different.

This is about right heartedness. Like your, your heart being, uh,

you know, directed toward Jesus or pointed in the right

direction and then continuing to do the next right thing in that

direction. As opposed to it being, yeah,

just this solution for every different scenario that that may

arise. I think what he's saying is do

the extra thing. And it's going to be an everyday

faithfulness just in little things.

Hmm. And then in the bigger things as

well, It's in little even just a little attitude adjustments.

And I say that for me, I've been thinking upon.

After the sermon on Sunday, I had a little rest time and then

we drove to my inlaws for dinner, as we often do on Sunday

evenings. And I didn't get cut off.

There was no one did anything to me.

But I saw a particular vehicle that I have a particular disdain

for. Well.

I saw one too this week. And and fill in the blanks.

I know, I know. I'm not going to say it, but I

know. And I started, I started lipping

off a little. I started and, and my

conscience, AKA my wonderful wife, she called me out and

she's like, wait, I mean, no, great.

And she was not she was teaching Sunday school.

She so she didn't hear my OK, but she knew what the topic was.

OK. She knew what the topic was.

Yeah. And so she was like, wait, what

did you preach about this morning?

I said, God, Dang it, Dang it. And she's so right, you know, as

as she always is. And she'll be happy to know that

I, I said that. But honestly, like it's those

little attitude adjustments where I was like, yeah, like,

why am I? Why do I care so much about that

thing? And like, that's not to say we

can't have genuine gripes about about situations and people and.

Ethics. Ethics and all, all of those

things. But but it's, you know, what is

happening in my heart in that moment.

I need to, I need to sit with that.

I need to reflect on that a little.

We're headed this week more so as well is like, I think more

than anything, this is like holding a mirror up to yourself,

right? And I think I might actually do

that. So if you come on Sunday, I

might, I might have a mirror up on the stage with me because I

think it is like as much as we want it to be that, like I'll

hold a mirror up to you so you can see yourself.

Really, these are just my notes. This isn't a mirror.

These are These are. All the questions.

Thank you. Well, listen, it's nice when

it's small, but when I try to write on that big board in the

sanctuary, it just goes sideways.

So what Jesus is doing is holding up a mirror to yourself,

right? And like so much of what

scripture does is we I, because I'm human, I want to make it

about the other person and be like, this is going to help you.

He's such a, you know, a good person when really it, it can,

it's meant to convict my heart 1st and change my life.

And so I think the, the small, the small things everyday make

the big things easier. And like, I don't like that I'm

an all or nothing kind of person.

It's like in or out, like just tell me which way we're going.

But really, this is a case where it's the everyday discipline of

those moments where like I'm gonna intentionally choose to

not think down this path and I'm going to think down this path

instead. It's that everyday discipline of

doing that that helps you face the big monsters in your life,

right? Like the big the big situations

and. Even just like owning it and

being able to talk freely about these things, you know, having a

little podcast confessional here about these things helps me to

be able to like, be accountable in some way, right?

Where like, I don't want to be a person marked by judgment and

cynicism And, and you know, like, I want to think the best

of people. That's what Jesus is calling us

to. He's he's asking us to love them

and to seek their good. And when I'm not doing that, I

am not. I am not living out my role as a

son and heir in the Kingdom of God.

Hmm, which I think is a great place to end it is.

There's so much more. We could have talked about a

lot. We didn't get to talk about

enemy in Christian music lyrics. We didn't know we did.

That's. OK, well, it'll come up again.

It'll. Have to be its own special

episode. I think the thing that maybe is

worth leaving people with is just by acknowledging again,

like, this is hard. It's not easy.

Messed up after preaching so well.

This like, yeah, and I've had those.

So I will never forget that the first time Connie said literally

those same words, like she turned me like, I think I heard

a sermon about this. I heard her good sermon about

this today. I was like, Oh my goodness.

How? Like how?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's hard.

Yeah, it's not and easy simple thing to do, but the good

meaningful right things rarely are.

And like as cliche as that is, in some ways I think that's that

that is true about about this like you began with that this is

easy to understand. It's hard to do.

Yeah. So start today with a small

thing, just the next right thing, and then try for the next

right thing after that. And I don't know, try to debt

snowball that thing like. But like, I think that's the

best approach is make the next right decision and get people

around you who can help keep you accountable to it and point out

when we fail at it. Yeah.

But until next week, we hope that this encourages you toward

meaningful and sometimes difficult conversation.

And we'd love to continue to hear your questions and comments

and feedback to our e-mail. We look forward to seeing many

of you Bible Study Sunday services and throughout your

week piece.