Podcast: (Luke 11:29-36)

I had a pen blow up on me yesterday.

My fountain pen exploded. This is going to be at the

beginning of this gonna be like the cut in.

Hey, friend, welcome to another episode of the Sunday Sit Down.

We are happy that you are here. And whether you're listening or

watching, whether you're in your car driving, hey, if you're in

your car driving and you are watching, probably don't do

that. That is not the way to listen to

the podcast. But we know that many of you are

listening all throughout the week and we think that's

fantastic. We are having a conversation

today about how to read the Bible.

That's that's our topic of conversation.

And we think that this passage is a good launching point for

that kind of conversation. Just how we got ourselves to a

place where we were preaching on Sunday.

And I say we because like it was a collective effort.

It was like a collective. Heavy lift struggle it was.

And then a collective effort. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, I think that's

great. If you miss the sermon on

Sunday, let me just like super briefly say I started by saying

that for those of you who don't know, Justin and Allison member

in the congregation and I, the three of Us Weekly, we sit down

and we read the passage usually, hopefully it's been like before

we've done any commentary study. We'll get into that.

Any reading? Like we just go in mostly blind.

Dog do do some inductive studying basically, yeah, it's

it's Allison has an expert. I I would call her an expert and

inductive Bible study. She wouldn't say that, but I

will say it for her that like she's so keyed in with that way

of, of studying Scripture that we we do not like in like the

most like legalistic sense. We're not doing like a

legalistic inductive study in that moment, but we are spending

time trying to sort it out before jumping to yeah.

Commentaries, yeah. And it's great.

Like as a preacher, I've done a number of different.

So I've been involved in team ministries where we've done

preaching prep meetings and like preaching debrief meetings.

I've been involved in solo ministry where you're just,

you're on your own and you kind of got to rally some people

around if you want any kind of team approach to things.

And I would like I, I cannot explain or express how

beneficial the team approach is to teaching, to preaching when

you think about the long run of, you know, of preachers over, you

know, hopefully many, many, many years of wrestling out texts.

So I think it's gonna be a good conversation.

And hopefully it helps you have a conversation if you are

wrestling out, like how to read Scripture, how to read the

Bible, what can that look like? What ought to it look like?

And maybe some of the questions that come up, you know, what do

I do when I don't understand? So yeah, we're going to jump in.

You've got a couple of questions and we'll kind of run off the

text for it. Yeah, see how we go.

So, so Jesus starts, you know, the crowds increase.

Jesus said this is a wicked generation.

Great start, by the way, like, you know, you just like one of

the, one of the greatest things is when you start your passage

for the morning that you're a wicked generation, like, and

that in and of itself like, like, like we got to talk about

that. We got to unpack some of those

things, right? Like what is what does he mean

by that? Or like, anyway, anyway, so and

then he gives like these two examples, you, you spend a

longer time unpacking Jonah and then a little less time

unpacking the, you know, this Solomon and this queen from the

South, queen, the queen of Sheba, who, who approached

Solomon for wisdom. And even within those two

stories, we're reading this Bible, we're reading this, this

passage from the Bible, from the Gospel of Luke, all of a sudden

we're being inundated with stuff that we gotta know if we're

going to properly understand this, right.

So I don't know if that's maybe a starting point of like, you

know, like sometimes we gotta start cross referencing.

Yeah. You know.

Yeah, I think it's helpful. So when we're reading, when

you're reading the Bible, I think the number one thing I

wish people would always do is read the Bible.

How do I say this like allow scripture, allow different

scriptures to interpret and help you unpack and understand other

scriptures. So that's exactly, I think as

soon as we read this passage, for example, you know, I think

each of us very quickly, you know, you're recognizing for,

for us as, as as followers of Jesus, as Christians, as

preachers, as pastors in, in various seasons of life, they

are the three of us. And we we recognize these

stories. And I think each of us sat up

and go, OK, Jonah, we know this makes much more sense, at least

initially. OK, Queen of the South, what's

going on there? Different language.

And so immediately what I love about the way in which we

approach things is we're not going to necessarily like Google

something or just like default to searching for it online or in

commentaries. But I think pretty quickly we

realized our we've got to figure out who the players are here and

so that we can understand what's going on.

Queen of the South, what's going on there?

You've got Solomon. So, OK, kings, like first kings,

but I think you pulled up the story in our discussion about

the Queen of Sheba. I was like I.

Think it's the Queen of Sheba. And I was like, I can't believe

I remembered that. Like it's, it's a little bit

obscure, right? Yeah.

And meanwhile, I so my wife, who is, she's a Bible scholar in her

own right. She I said, I said I couldn't

even remember. She's like you, you didn't

remember that. And I was like, yeah, OK, OK,

you can say that. Now, no, no.

So I think it's helpful, like I think it's helpful just if we're

talking about really practical ways of reading the Bible and if

you're looking to study the Bible, I think one of the best

things you can do, and you can do this for free or you can do

this by spending a bit of money, and that is to get a Bible with

good cross referencing. Because like, so my Bible has a

little bit of cross referencing at the bottom.

It's it has some, you know, some notes about manuscripts where

words might be different. Yeah.

And that's a completely different subject.

But it has along the side some cross references, usually to the

other Gospels when we're in the Gospels.

Parallel passages, etcetera. Yeah, but for example, in in my

Bible here, when I get to Solomon and the Queen from the

South, I look over and I've got a little note that says 1131

First Kings 10 One Second Chronicles 9/1.

So just gives it right to you. So gives it to me and then

immediately I'm able to flip back and look and read some of

those stories. So I think the, the, now there

are different types of reading scripture.

So you can do something closer to like electio, uh, where

you're, you're reading smaller chunks in a more prayerful

slowdown way where you're just trying to be quiet and allow God

to speak to you. And, you know, you're focusing

on a few verses and you're reading it slowly.

You're not reading in that sense for understanding as much or, or

knowledge as much as you're reading for inspiration.

Like, you know, that, that it's, it's a prayer.

It's I, I think it's, it's a, it's a way of reading scripture

in a prayerful way that allows God to speak to you.

Meditative and kind of devotionally focused.

Yeah, Yeah. And yeah, there's a part of

reading scripture that that is so important and beautiful to do

in that way. I think when we're reading and

what we're talking about is like, how do you understand just

the what the book is saying? What is like?

What's going? On how does that impact what's

happening in the greater story of Luke?

How does that potentially back to my life like, yeah, the the

questions of of the more existential questions of

Scripture. Right.

So, yeah, so that's that's one. I think this the way we're

reading the second way is, yeah, is, is to figure out what's

going on. And the language that I really

like in this case is Timothy Keller.

The way he's described this in the past is before you can

really, I'm going to butcher any quotes so you know, like this is

like the grand version, whatever.

But you know, he, he says before you can understand what's going

on in a way that you can apply a principle or a thing to your

life, you need to notice. He just says, notice the thing.

So he's like, first, what do we notice when you're reading?

And I think that's part of our conversation is always what

we're noticing as we're reading it.

And it could be a passage that we're reading for the first time

in a long, long time. It could be something that we've

read, You know, we had the Lord's Prayer where you're

working really hard to not just flip into what you've maybe

memorized said over and over again.

Yeah, you've read this line thousands of times potentially.

I think a good place to start when you're reading scripture is

just by writing down what you're noticing and then taking what

you're noticing and going, OK, what do I know?

So I I think we and I can say this.

We recognized instantly, Joan. I, like we've said, but less so,

Queen of the South. Do we know that this is the

Queen of Sheba? Is this the queen of Sheba

visited Solomon, who is seeking for wisdom and found, you know,

what she was looking for. She's given, this is the part of

the story that we didn't get into.

Like she's given so much wealth and riches because she comes and

then like, you know, a kind of declare Solomon's wisdom and

then also declares, you know, blessed as the Lord, praise be

to the Lord, to to the Lord your God.

And then she was Solomon gives her like a insane amount of of

riches and she goes on her way and you're like, OK, well,

interesting. That's a weird story.

But what do we what can we take away from it?

And what is Jesus trying to say through it here?

You need to you need to notice it, You need to write it down.

You need to make note of it. And then you need to start

figuring out, OK, do I know all of these players?

Do I know all the names? Am I familiar with the stories?

Maybe I'll go back and read it. So it's not expensive way, but

you can spend money on a Bible that does this, which has some

cross referencing built into it. The second thing that I would

say really practically is just go to Bible Gateway.

Yeah, Bible Gateway and new version if you're on a tablet

or. Phone so I'm on you version

right now and it actually does exist in the NIV here does not.

Have cross references. Maybe maybe there's an option to

toggle that on that I'm not seeing.

But but yes, Bible Gateway for sure has all the cross

references. I brought my iPad.

And it's dead. Yeah, I I downloaded a drawing

app on it like it's like a paint by number drawing app.

And did your child one of your children use it?

Yeah, I'm not gonna say which ones, but it's dead.

I brought this because I have some quotes on it from my sermon

and. No, you don't.

No, I don't unless you remember. OK, so Bible Gateway and that

does have absolutely certain that that has all the cross

referencing that you could want or be looking for.

Yeah. So there's a paid, you know,

paid way of carrying around a Bible with some cross

referencing. There's a free version online,

on a phone, wherever. But I think, yeah, the first

step in the type of this type of reading is notice.

Like read, notice the things you're noticing, then try to

notice the things that you're not noticing initially.

That's why it's great to do it in a group because guaranteed

every single time we sit down, we're noticing different things

and then start to unpack, OK, figure out the, of the things

that I've noticed, is there any more work that I need to do?

Are there any more passages that need to go read and do that?

And I would say do this with a pen and paper.

Like we're constantly as we're going, writing stuff down and

making notes right in Bibles on manuscripts that we've printed

out. Yeah, and, and you know, the,

the beauty of doing it, and This is why I give you can do this

with multiple people. Like you're gonna get multiple

perspectives. And and by that, I, I want to be

clear in that I'm saying like, I think you can derive, you know,

a particular meaning, but we're all tackling it in different

ways, right. So, like your brain works

differently than my brain. Yeah, we're two guys.

And then for someone like Allison, even even more so as a

woman, she's seeing things that we're missing.

Yeah, because we're boneheaded sometimes.

And it's great. Like, yeah, that's exactly,

that's exactly right. And yeah, we need to see what

other people see and other people need to see what you see.

Yeah. The beauty of doing it in

community, I think anybody who's been to community Bible study

that we've done here or elsewhere knows that benefit

first hand, right? Because we can say it.

There's a knowledge piece, there's an understanding piece,

and yeah, it. So yeah, notice, notice and

write down. Get in front of.

You so I want to touch on particularly this example of of

the Queen of the South, the queen of Sheba that that Jesus

alludes to and the you know what what Jesus is seems to be

getting out here. He says for she came from the

ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom.

And now something greater than Solomon is here and, and there

seems to be embedded in this passage this sort of like

layered conversation around, around they're seeking signs.

And, and Jesus is, is saying this woman, she traveled

hundreds of miles to seek wisdom and you're, and, and this stuff

is right in front of you and you're still asking for signs.

And so there's a, I mean, there's something almost comical

there, like, yeah, but, but I think for us, there's, there's

something about the seeking of wisdom that I think I want to

tap into in, you know, in our reading of Scripture, not just

in this passage, but for all, everything, every time we read.

So let's talk about that. Yeah, I think that's good.

So there's a way of I OK, I preached this admittedly from

more of what I would call like the negative side of like,

you're right. Like this is this is right in

front of you and you're missing the you're missing it right like

and and that is a harsh, like Jesus does level that harsh

criticism. It's about to get harsher this.

Week. And it is going to get harsher

this week. Yeah, yeah, He's gonna eat with

some Pharisees and challenge them even more.

But you know, I, I, I think there's a, there's a reading,

there's a write reading of that where you, we need to see it.

We need to see Jesus critiquing these people.

He says something greater than Solomon is here, something

greater than Jonah is here, and you're missing it.

It's right in front of you. You don't understand, you don't

see it. So we need to we need to read

that and understand that and hear that and see it and and

wonder about our own lives. Like what?

And this is this is where I took us yesterday, which was, you

know, are there ways that God is acting in my life where maybe

I'm asking, I'm asking God like, give me the big sign.

We want this spectacular, but we we fail to see the everyday ways

that God is at work in our lives.

And I think that is something that we need to wrestle with.

And I think we need to wrestle with it for so many reasons.

Like we stink at slowing down and we stink at being quiet.

And our life is loud and noisy and the world is noisy.

And, you know, I flipped my phone to black and white a while

ago and you know, we've talked about some of this stuff.

Um, I'm like shocked Whenever I flip it back to colour now, it's

like, well, like it just like it's oppressive, almost like it

hits me and I'm like, Oh my goodness, this is so

aggressively colourful. And then I flip it back to black

and white. I'm like, OK, this is good.

Like all of life is like, we want these massive sort of big

hit you in the face kind of things.

And I think we fail to see the way in which God is probably at

work in mundane, everyday ways. There's a book that I really

love. It's called Liturgy of the

Ordinary, and it's like making toast.

How can you turn making breakfast into a liturgy that

welcomes and invites and sees and senses God's presence?

So like brother Lawrence kind of vibes.

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Doing this is like doing dishes.

Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, I think we do,

we do need to hear that critique that Jesus levels to the crowds.

What I didn't say on Sunday, which I want to say today, is

that we can, there's a possibility, I think, for people

to hear this in an unhealthful, negative way, which is to say

you do the study, you do the work, you read the book, you are

curious and excited and you actually sit down and you do it

and you're underlining stuff and you get to the end and you're

like, I still don't understand. Am I part of this wicked

generation? Yeah, like unequivocally.

I mean, maybe, but but for that reason, no.

Yes and no, right. Yes, yeah.

For that reason, no. So here's The thing is, you

know, we, we emphasize and I think our like our

denominational heritage and I say our like for court, right as

a church in the Reformed tradition, as Presbyterians, we

have the tendency and it's not a good one to idolize intellectual

pursuit. Yes.

So, you know, since, since the Reformation, there has been a, a

very strong shift. It's why preaching, like

teaching is a large part of our worship together.

And it's why, you know, you you can sit down in some Reformed

churches and you know the the preaching will be 4550 sixty

minutes long. And I won't be 60 minutes long.

I shouldn't promise that I won't be 60 minutes long, but I

promise I won't be 60 minutes long on a Sunday like that is.

You haven't gotten close, so. Far No, 35 is kind of my, you

know, in between that 28 to 35 is kind of like, yeah, but we

can, we can. So this is this is the piece.

We can we can idolize this intellectual pursuit of

knowledge, what we think of as wisdom or even understanding and

what we can end U doing is in fact also what Jesus is saying,

missing the experience that's unfolding in front of us,

missing the presence of God that is imminent that is here in our

lives because we're so locked in on just if I could just know

this answer or know this thing, then I could live differently.

O what I want to say to people is what we see in this, I think

is some of the brilliance of Jesus here is when he talks

about the Queen of the South, so the Queen of the South, what he

highlights. Is that she came from the ends

of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom.

What what he highlights isn't she finally understood?

Hmm. Yeah, Jesus doesn't say she got

it, just doesn't say she, she attained the knowledge, the

wisdom. Um, what he highlights is that

she sought out Solomon because she was curious.

And that's the first king story, right?

Like it's the, the rumors of Solomon, I think is the

language, rumors of the wisdom of this dude has just blown up

across the, the known world and she chooses to go and find out

for herself. Doesn't take anybody's word on

it, doesn't just blindly accept or believe.

Doesn't, you know, ignore It doesn't just dismiss it doesn't

say, well, that that has nothing to do with me or my life.

Here she travels quote from the ends of the Earth, which is a

very specific term in the New Testament.

Doesn't basically mean far far away.

Like, well, like all in, like. So when Jesus in Acts, it's it's

a Luke, it's Luke's language, right.

In Acts, when Jesus sends the disciples out, what does he say?

He says you'll be my, you'll be my witnesses in GD and Samaria

and to the ends of the earth. Yeah.

And so, yeah, it's far off, but it really is, it really is

speaking to like the absolute furthest place that they can

conceive at that time. Which in this case may have

been, there's some theories that it may have been like, like

Ethiopia or something like that. Yeah.

So like hundreds of miles away. Right, definitely a very, very,

very long yeah trip. So Jesus highlights her pursuit

and I think for us, the flip is you won't understand everything.

And I hope that what, what I did on Sunday was, um, you know, a

little bit of like insider trading or insider baseball,

Like we don't understand all the things all the time.

Yeah. And when I get up to preach,

it's not because I'm this like fount of wisdom, right?

Like, it's not like I, and This is why I think it's important to

share some of these details. It's not like, you know, when

you hop up to preach, it's not because, you know, we're sitting

here going, well, Justin's the expert on this part of the

Bible. So that's what you're going to

speak about. Like we, each of us commit

ourselves to deep study and wrestling the text out and, you

know, basically fighting the, the, the implication out for our

own lives and for the life of our church.

And that's a process. It takes time for sure.

And I think what we want for our, for you to hear listener,

is that, um, no amount of knowledge or wisdom is going to

get you into heaven. Yes.

Right. Like, yeah, you know, it's, it's

not about knowing more, but what Jesus does say is, is pursue.

And if I could just flip us back a few weeks.

It's just going to go there, yeah.

Yeah. So maybe pull that up, right,

Because what? So he says ask, seek and knock.

Hmm. And what we talked about on

Sunday, on that Sunday was that the better language there, given

the Greek translation is keep on asking.

And Alt actually says that apparently is that was that

someone? I feel like someone told me that

and I was like, oh that's cool. I have the NLT here I.

You have it here, but it's yes, keep on seeking and you will

find. Keep on knocking.

Yeah, Yeah. That's good.

Yeah, like so like that's it. And and that's the that is the

translation. That is literally what what is

written in the Gospel of Luke. Is that it?

It is, yeah. Keep on keep.

It is. It is a present action that is

meant to continue into, you know, essentially Infinity

present present action that continues to be present actions

in the future, if that makes sense.

Yeah, and there's something about the ongoing pursuit not of

knowledge. Knowledge is good.

Knowledge can be helpful. It can, you know, understanding

things can be great. But there is something different

about the pursuit of wisdom that that I think that Jesus is

touching on here, that he's like, the pursuit of wisdom is

gonna be transformative. It's it's gonna, it's going to,

it's gonna make a difference in your life and the lives of the

people around you because it's not just vain, you know, head

filling, right. Hmm.

There's some, there's something about that too that I was

thinking about. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it yeah. I mean, I think we all each of

us know this. You can, you can know something.

Um, you can know something because you've memorized the

thing and you can know something because you've experienced the

thing. Yeah.

And that that's different, right?

And in English, I think knowledge in that sense maybe

fails. And and I, you know, we, we use

wisdom in, in that maybe, maybe that's in some sense the

difference then when people use the word wisdom.

But yeah, I think what Jesus is saying is keep on pursuing, keep

on asking, keep on seeking, keep on knocking, lean in, keep

wondering. And those are the things that

Jesus is gonna honor. He's not, you know, He's not

looking for a perfect test score or for you to finally get it

right. You will there will be moments

where you go, oh, OK, like, and those are exciting, but even

those aren't like ultimately the moments, right?

I think what, what Jesus wants is somebody whose heart is bent

toward the pursuit of more, uh, like a, like a deeper, A deeper

relationship with, with God. And I think that's OK.

Last thing that I want to say is, uh, Christians can idolize

the Bible. OK, tell me more.

And I want to be very careful here because that, like that's

maybe we should start start with that.

Um, there's this, there's this old, there's this old Sunday

school song, Jesus loves me. This I know, Classic for the

Bible tells me so. That's the last time I'm going

to sing on this spot. No.

And so there is a phase within your Christian spirituality

learning formation, right? So within your Christian

formation where you need to just simply believe and know and

trust because the Bible tells you so.

But if you never graduate beyond because the Bible says so, you

will eventually run up against something in your life that that

level of faith will not be able to manage.

Jesus loves me. This I know, for the Bible tells

me so absolutely categorically 100% true.

Jesus loves me. You can know it because the

Bible tells you. But that's a that's an early

infancy stage of faith and of. Why School Song?

Which is why, which is why we teach it to kids.

Absolutely. And how do we teach kids?

We teach kids by memorization. We just need you.

We need you to memorize these things.

We need you to know these things we need to do like

multiplication tables, right? And you learn by memorizing and

by repeating over and over again.

But eventually you are going to run up against something in your

life where that answer does not cut it.

Why? Like why is my, you know, and

I'm going to use me and my, but I don't mean like for me here,

but for, you know, for many people, right?

Like why, why, why did I have to bury somebody far too early?

Right? God forbid, maybe your parent

who's buried a child, you're like, why does this feel so

backwards? And, and why is my, you know,

why is my marriage not the way I wanted it to be?

Uh, why is my career not the way I wanted me?

Why is my life different? Like I thought if you did the

right things and lived the right kind of life and worked hard,

then you know certain things would have like why?

Why is it not the way I expected and.

And someone's answer to that question if it's well, the Bible

says. Well.

Might not be very helpful. Might not.

Be very helpful. So one of one of the least

helpful, one of the least helpful Bible verses in the

midst of seasons of suffering, right, is what does the Bible

say? Well, God works all things for

good boy for those who love him. Now we're getting into.

It and and I go, yeah, is that a true statement about God and his

character? Yes, absolutely.

Is it a helpful statement for somebody in the midst of their

suffering? Probably not.

Probably not. There are better verses to lean

on. So I think that the all, all of

that to say, because that's a whole other, you know, we spend

a whole other podcast on talking about this kind of stuff.

Is is the Bible the the beauty and the gift of the Bible?

And I say the Bible, but what I mean is like the scriptures

contained within it, many different books written by many

different authors and many different genres over many

different years. The beauty of it is that it

reveals God. And if it like if your study of

it is to master this, you missed the point.

Yeah, but then that's what Jesus would say.

Like you've missed it because it's not about becoming a master

in this book, understanding this thing, what it does is it it

reveals God's heart to you for you.

It like you're meant to find Jesus in these pages and then in

pursuing relationship with God through prayer, this is meant to

actually reveal more of God to you.

And so it is like, this is this is a beautiful thing.

This is like, this is a gift to humanity.

Yeah. But it's not the thing in in and

of itself. And so This is why, you know,

Christians say, hey, Jesus, the living word of God, like this is

meant to give you access to God in his heart and who he is and

who you are called to being created to be.

And you're going to see people who wrestle out spirituality and

like all of it, good ways, bad ways.

You're like, whoa, wow. I can't believe you messed up

that much. And you're still here.

You're in the book. Wow.

Like, what does it say about me? Great.

There's a chance. Yes, absolutely.

Like this gives you access to God, but don't mistake this for

God. That's what I.

Mean yes, no, I, I, I'm with you 100%.

And and I think I think it might be reductive to say that the

Bible is I'm like a means to the end of knowing God.

But but in in some ways there is there is some truth in that that

the the the Bible is is the is the way that we can learn to

encounter and know God that it would be better.

You know, we talk about the Sunday school kind of Kitty

version infancy version of of knowing Jesus loves us is from

the Bible. But the mature faith version of

that would be I know Jesus loves me because I've like I I've

encountered an experienced it and it has informed my my very

being, right? Yeah, that's a very different

faith, right? Neither are wrong.

They're different seasons of life, right?

But yeah, So what if we read all the things or we, we spend all

the time asking all the questions, reading the

scriptures. We we cross reference all the

things and we still don't get it.

Welcome to Christianity. Yeah, and I think it's worth

saying like, cause I, I'm, I'm asking a leading question

because I know we wanna go. Yeah, but like there are so many

passages that we are, we, we often are scratching our heads

trying to kind of figure, OK, what's what's, what's the author

after here? And then we go to the

commentaries, which we're going to get you in a second.

And the commentaries are, are in, you know, they say, well,

this, you know, this scholar from, you know, the Patristics

thought this and so, and so thought this and they think

this. And I, I think this is the most

likely outcome here, but we're not quite sure This, this, this

language is perplexing. Like there's all of these

complexities of the, you know, translating of the, of the

Hebrew into the Greek into the English or the Hebrew into the

English or the Greek into the English or the Aramaic.

And like, there are so many ways in which this is complicated.

There are, we have, we're translating not just language,

but culture and time. And like, there are going to be

some things that are confusing. And so to until the day that

Jesus returns, there are some things that we're still going to

be scratching our heads over. So just wanted to name that.

Yeah, I think that's helpful. Paul's got this great line right

now. I see in part, yes, but then I

will see fully. Now I know in part, but then I

will know fully, just as I am fully known.

And it's like this beautiful invitation to wonder and

curiosity and also unresolved life.

And I was gonna leave that sentence unresolved, but like,

you know, it, it really is it. It's just constant, constant

pursuit. And, you know, there are a few

Christians. I say a few.

You know, percentage wise, I don't actually know.

But there are certain flavors of denominations that wanna push

more toward perfection. But we're, you know, we're,

we're not one of them, at least denominationally, right.

Like, yeah, I think that's the piece that you know for sure

you're gonna find different interpretations on that as well.

But yeah, so I would say a couple of things because 1

again, I, I think if you are so locked in at understanding the

thing that you can't understand, you know, maybe that's helpful

for a season and it's fun and exciting.

I think at at times that can also maybe mean that you're

elevating the pursuit of intellect over like the pursuit

of relationship. So you know, I think listen to

that. The other thing that I would say

is, you know, as we began, don't read scripture in isolation.

If if you can read the entirety of the New Testament and think,

OK, I can just keep reading this by myself on my own.

I think you've missed like a major part of of what's going

on, which is Jesus is forming a community and that community

forms communities. And so this thing that we've

called Christianity for thousands of years now has

always meant to be lived out in relationship with other people.

Yeah. And so your relationship with

Jesus is going to be harmed if you're not finding it also

developed in relationship with other human beings, some of whom

you love and like and enjoy being around and some of whom

you love because you have to. And it's like, you annoy me, but

we're here together to figure this out.

Not you, Justin. You don't know.

But like, you know, I'm saying like it's OK, like I, I think

real shoulder to shoulder don't always get along.

That kind of community is where we're meant to study Scripture

best and. So that's kind of first step,

right? Like if we are struggling to

understand either like the the knowledge or wisdom or how to

the living out of Scripture, like that's probably a great, a

great starting point. Like get, get involved in a, in

a, in a small group of people who you can read with and and

try to discern with. Maybe it's community Bible study

maybe whatever that looks like yeah and like you're gonna get a

diversity of of perspectives and illegal.

Here's maybe what's going on here and next level, you know,

beyond the fact that we have, you know, people across our

church or across our city or whoever that we could

potentially learn from. We have voices across time and

space of, of people who have been wrestling this stuff out as

scholars who are way smarter than you or I, who have been

doing this a long, long time. Yeah.

Both modern and ancient, Right. You know, so like one of the one

of my favorite things to do when I'm reading a reading a passage

and you can find most of these things online for free.

Doesn't, you don't have to have like a whole stack of

commentaries again, we'll get there in a second, But like

finding even just what, what are the early, what did the early

church fathers say about some of this stuff?

You know, how did they, how did they understand this?

Cause they were closer to the time of Jesus, right?

They may have some insight that we that a we don't, or even

modern scholars don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So this may be helpful to talk through like our our preaching

prep process, right, which might just be helpful in terms of

laying out a framework for people.

So I think what we try to do here is really allow as best we

can the text to speak for itself.

So what that means is, um, I'm starting here, right?

So typically when I'm like on weeks when I'm preaching usually

and and I'm a week of preacher. I've tried my entire life to be

like Ohtani have. I have three-week like sermons

written for three, the three night like it's.

Hard. God bless that person who can do

that. It's.

Yeah, I what I've found of myself is like, I need to live

it in the same week. And I finally found like some,

some mentors and coaches who do the same thing.

And that's been so freeing because I've constantly like

some of my, some of my mentors and ministry coaches over the

years have have always been these like, yeah, we're a couple

weeks ahead, we're a series ahead or we're like full

outlines are done for an entire series.

Like, and I'm like, well, I can't outline this whole series.

I can break up the passages for the whole thing.

And you know, but like we're, we're going through Luke here.

Like it's not the same as a four week service sermon series, but

it's been so freeing to find the like tribe of people who are

like, no, we're living it out the week of.

So week of for me, it's, it's I'm, I'm praying and I'm

thinking and I'm getting quiet and I'm reading and that can

look different for everybody, but sometimes I'll walk,

sometimes I'll pace, sometimes I'll run sometimes, but you

know, I'm, I'm reading and I'm thinking and I'm praying

throughout the week for sure. But it starts there and then we

read, we sit down now on Mondays and we read the text together on

Mondays. And kind of the, the unspoken

spoken commitment is like, we've not done a ton of research,

we've not done a ton of reading and commentaries.

We've not gone off and done our own because we really want to

read this and allow it to stand and speak for itself.

Yeah. So we're reading, we're

studying, we're writing, we're noticing, we're making marks,

we're going flipping through scriptures like we've discussed.

So we start there and allow it to confuse us, allow it to

encourage us and challenge us and excite us and start to

wonder and think, oh, my goodness, like this is how this

could shape us as a community. And from that point.

Usually I think for those of us who like, you know, for, for the

preacher, like I always walk away from that, from that time

going like if I, if I was sick from now until Sunday, I could

get U and just teach through the passage.

I could do it. I've not ever done that, but I

could do it. Like that's how beneficial and

helpful it is. So, you know, you, you, I walk

away always so encouraged by that, that time together.

And then from there, it's in the personal, my own individual

study where I'm rereading it, I'm making notes, I've got a

list of questions and then I'm into commentaries.

And so then I will read all the commentaries that we have.

And so we have collection of I think 5 or 6 commentaries that

we're working through with the Luke.

Curated, I would say. Yeah, I definitely chose those.

Yeah, there. It's not all, it's not

exhaustive. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, because I find that sometimes like I'll go through

so like I, you get this Bible software called Logos, which,

you know, you can get different tiers and packages.

And I will, I have, I have learned that there are maybe two

or three that I will also read in addition to the the physical

copies that you have. Because I'm like, man, some of

these are just either two in the weeds or they're not from a, a

focus that really makes sense for our context, you know, and

so like, I think curated and, and if you ever have questions

about, you know, like, Hey, would this be a good commentary?

We could help you with that, right?

Like, because there are not all commentaries are made equal.

And, and it's not that, you know, I, I am, you know, making

like a snap judgment on well, I don't like that person or that

name, but it it's more so about like, Hey, is this a trusted

source who has been, you know, doing this for, for, you know,

over the long haul? Yeah.

Yeah. Like there.

That's that's a challenge I find as well.

But yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, so like I'll read through, get through

commentaries and again, I'm taking notes and studying and it

I'm always pleasantly amazed that, you know, many of the

questions that we come to are the questions that people have

been asking for generations. And they're the questions that

the writers have wrestled with. So I will go from there.

I'll read through all the commentaries and then, you know,

between those, those notes and the notes that we have from our

discussion, that's when I'll start to build like an outline

for a sermon. And OK, what are my, what are my

points? And what's the one thing I want

people to hear and take away from and how do I want it to

shape their Monday? So that's more about the

preaching side of things. At some point after I've, you

know, done a good chunk of my writing, I'll also go back and,

you know, if we're more topical for the day.

So, you know, we've talked through the Lord's Prayer.

I have some just really good books on prayer that I've read

and so I'll go back and and kind of skim through some of those

books and resources as well. So usually, usually I'm, you

know, probably 80 or 90% of the way through my sermon and then

I'll go and I'll read through some of those books as well.

Those would be like less academic, yeah.

Yeah, and some sometimes historical, like on prayer.

I I went back through, well, a few books, but a book by Pete

Gregg on prayer and a book by Philip Yancey on prayer.

Stuff that, like everyone could and should read.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

And and that's, you know, sometimes I, I will think of

like I, I know, I know this person, this author has a great

quote and I know it's in line with this point that we're kind

of working through. Let me go and find that, remind

myself of it and that kind of stuff.

So that's where it all starts to come together.

But I think if I could trace like for people, let let me just

outline a thread here is there's there's a benefit to just you

and and the book in front of you, right you in the passage,

you and Jesus, like pray, go into it praying God would you by

the power of your Holy Spirit. Allow me to see what you want me

to see. Yeah, right.

Go in prayerfully like this is alive, like we've talked about

the the Bible as being this, this living, active word because

of the Holy Spirit and what God's presence will do in you as

you read it. So go in expectant, read it and

and prayerfully read it and reread it and ask questions and

wonder and write notes. So you just you and the text in

Jesus, right like that. That's great.

And then get yourself a community of people who you can

ask and wonder with and wrestle stuff out with and know that

there's a wealth of resources that their commentaries and

books on things that you're now wondering because you've read.

But what I would say is don't do that backwards.

Don't just read the Christian authors because everybody's

reading the Christian authors. Don't start with, well, what

does this be like? You know what, what does Martin

Luther say about infant baptism? I mean, that's a great thing to

go and, and read and wonder, but don't start there.

Like don't go, hey, you know what does?

So and so say, pick your person about Luke 11 one to 10 or 11.

Like don't, don't start there. Start with it in front of you

and work your way toward your own questions because that's how

it's going to shape your life in real time as you're living your

life. And you're going to find your

own voice in it. And you're going to learn that

you ask your own questions in it.

And you're going to learn that God's that God reveals these

things to you. And you go, wow.

But so much like all of those stages are important because

here's OK, here's the opposite. So don't start by asking what

other people are saying, but also check what you're saying

against what Like if what you, you know, if if you've read a

passage, you're like, I now know the divinely given truth about

this verse and it is different than 2000 years of church

history. I am just saying, yeah, at least

double check that with a few other people, right?

Because that's you. We in isolation, it can go silly

and sideways, right? In our own biases can come in

and you know what we want instead of what we're actually

reading all of those things. So that's a lot.

But like there's a, there's a reason for all of.

This is a reason for all that. And there's a reason why if you,

if you look at the, the, the beginning of like a Bible

translation, it will list the sometimes dozens or hundreds of

scholars who helped contribute to that because like this stuff

is complicated. And, and I would be very wary of

one person, or at least for like, So for instance, let's

like, let's say Eugene Peterson's The Message, which is

more of a paraphrase than a translation, literally, but like

wonderful resource, great resource.

And yet also not something that I would, I would say is

something that we should use as our sole reading of the

Scriptures, right. And he did that mostly himself.

There's a reason why, like sometimes hundreds of scholars

have worked on these passages because they're wrestling it out

together. Yeah, yeah.

And it's why we begin in community, right?

For us who are preaching, we begin in community and it ends

in community. Like that's the book ends of, of

preaching, right? So that's a lot in terms of how

to read the, the Bible. I think the most important thing

is just read it. Yeah, just do it.

And and the most important translation of the best

translation for you is the one that you're going to read.

So don't get worked up about like, well, is at the end NIV or

NLT or ESV or, you know, New King James, whatever the version

like read the one you're gonna read.

If you want opinions we've got em but.

Definitely have opinions, however, read the one that

you're gonna read and read the one that you enjoy reading.

Like, you know, there are certain versions that are much

more readable than others. And so like, find one that you

enjoy and are going to spend time with and then write it up,

mark it like put notes in the margins, underline stuff, like

use it until it falls apart and then find something else.

Yeah. So I think that's that's the

best way to study the Bible is just to actually do it.

But hopefully that gives some framework, I think, for how we

kind of come through our own prep and how it might shape

people's reading. Hmm, we hope that you have a

great week and we'll see you in the next episode.