Podcast: Advent 3

So a fun fact about the maji the very first solo I ever sang in

church. I was nine years old and it was,

it was about, it was a little song about the magi.

We things. What's that?

We? No, no, no, it's not.

No, it was some like random like little Christmas production we

did. And I can still hear.

I did like singing to my little falsetto voice.

I'm not going to sing it right now.

Maybe I'll sing it for you after, OK?

OK, Hey friend, welcome to another episode of the Sunday

Sit down and we are happy to have you joining us wherever

that may be. Happy almost Christmas, Merry

almost Christmas. We're we're most of the way

there. I mean, I've even got my

Christmas tree sweater on today. You do.

So absolutely, those who are just listening, you're missing

out. You are listen, we know that

many of you are already starting into your plans and into your

travels and are maybe joining us from a whole variety of places.

Welcome. Glad to have you.

We are jumping into a conversation around the story

from Matthew 21 to 18 ish one to yeah.

And it's the story of the Magi and their visit to Jesus.

We're not going to get into there are a lot of technical

questions about this story, like when did it happen?

Did it happen with so when you know a lot of different things

like that. And I don't think we're gonna

get into all of those questions, but I wanted to start just with

one thing that didn't make it into the sermon explicitly.

Tell me more. So the one thing that didn't

make it into the sermon about these magi who visited Jesus is

not the fact that, you know, maybe they visited him right

after he was born. Probably he was actually maybe a

couple years old. We're not sure.

Definitely took months for them to get there, which, you know,

we might get into. But the one thing that that

didn't make it into my sermon explicitly that I think is worth

mentioning is that Matthew is doing something really specific

with this story. And what he's doing, and I kind

of alluded to it, is he is declaring Jesus from the very

beginning to be king, not only of the Jews, like they were

anticipating Messiah, not just to them, Savior not just to

them, but Savior for the whole world.

So to the entire world. And that's the IT I think we can

lose 1 of the things that I was I even just in my own reading

and research and thinking and praying through the message is

like, I've heard this story. I don't know how many hundreds

of times, if not more. And I have always thought about

these magi just as wise men, maybe kings who came to visit

Jesus, maybe from a different nation, probably if they're

kings, if they're magi, likely right.

Like they just they've kind of taken on this character.

Hmm. But I I didn't think until much

more recently, like in these last few years, about the fact

that their arrival as Magi, as priests on behalf of very likely

the king of Persia is very shocking.

Like, we read it and it's kind of cozy, comforting.

Like. Nice.

They bring gifts. Cool.

Great. That sounds like Christmas.

Yeah. Awesome.

But what they're doing is priests whose role it was to

make famous the king of Persia is making or are them together

are making famous Jesus as true king of king and Lord of Lords

for the entire world. So it it is like this radical

explosion of what Jesus life and ministry and Kingdom and death

and resurrection and then sending of the church presence

coming of the Holy Spirit would all fulfill, which is the line

in in Acts. You will be my witnesses in

Jerusalem and Judea, Samaria and to the ends of the earth.

Matthews declaring the ends of the earth from the very

beginning of his story by bringing these guys in from way

out of town. It's interesting as you, as you

spell that out like that not only are they from another

nation, but like likely they, they, I mean, they can't imagine

they would have been, you know, like Jews from the Diaspora.

Like no, like they're following another religious system of some

sort, most likely like that. That strikes me as like super

curious Like. Yeah, yeah.

So they're very likely Persian Zoroastrians.

Zoroastrians, yeah is yeah would be their, their like hometown

religion. And they as priests would would

be like devout followers and devoutly, you know, allied to

the king, like their allegiance would have been to the king of

Persia. And I, I like I said, like not

exactly sure what their motivation was to come.

Like, maybe they're curious. But to to travel that far, to

bring these gifts to a king who was born when there is a king

already in, you know, in the land, is like a radical thing.

In that particularly feels because of what we see happening

with Herod, which I think you touched on a bit, Lindsey will

touch on it for this week. But like just the fact that

there's a contrast there of these kind of emissaries of a

king that are seeking versus this king of from, you know,

within the local land. That's just having a meltdown

about what's happening here, right?

It's the the contrast is very is very fascinating.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And like, here's Herod, who

represents all the worst things of humanity.

And like, let's not pretend that we don't, you know, also at

times live. They're the same like Herod

reactions to threats and things like that.

We can be insecure and feel threatened and react and respond

accordingly. But he does like he represents

so much of the worst of the human reaction to those to those

emotions. And I mean, the dude is a prop

king. Like he, you know, he doesn't

have any authority in and of himself all.

His he made him feel, I kind of, you know, self-conscious to

begin with, right? You kind of feel like I'm, I'm

just, I'm just here, you know, doing my thing and, and, and I

don't have any real power. Right, Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, you can you can get into the mind of hard a

little bit, but represents significant opposition to in a

sense to the magi, more so to to Jesus and what Jesus is doing.

And again, we're gonna see much more of that this coming week.

Yeah, but let's jump into a conversation around a large

topic that we won't have time to cover all of.

We're going to. Yeah, not a chance.

We are going to dissolve about discernment.

We're going to solve discernment.

Yeah. So that's.

So that's the idea. So I talked through I talked

through these three points on Sunday, which was let's see if I

can remember them off the right, off the cuff.

But no, no sermon notes or manuscript in front of me if

you're listening. So number one, that when you

allow God into your story and when you finally begin to do the

thing that we've been encouraging you to do, which is

listen to what God is saying and begin to obey the things that

you believe he's calling you to do and that others would speak

in a firm into your life. Going to come back to those

ideas. A couple things are gonna

happen. One, there's going to be change.

Like, you're not going to remain the same.

Following Jesus doesn't mean staying where you are.

And you can't follow Jesus while remaining exactly where you are.

And that's true for all of us. And no matter where we are, no

matter how long we've been following Jesus, the goal is not

to stay the same as today. And so that's why Scripture

writers talk about being made every day more and more into the

likeness of Jesus, like into who he is and who he's designed you

to be. So #1 there's going to be

change. Change is hard.

None of us enjoy change, love it when it comes to our own change.

So #1 #2 there's gonna be opposition and people will see

what's happening in your life and like there will be push back

against it. And at times that opposition

comes from inside ourselves, probably more so than we'd like

to admit, that the opposition is actually internal and we don't

like the change that we feel God is calling us to make, or the

level of accountability or vulnerability, transparency,

etcetera. And so we're like, well, that

sounds too hard and not comfortable in any way, shape or

form internal opposition, but that on the other side of those

things, on the other side of change and on the other side of

opposition, not even say like as you are working them through.

What we see in the Magi stories is that they discover joy, this

deep joy. They rejoice.

They are actively participating in joy.

That's the the language because they get to witness Jesus in his

birth in his early years as a young child born to Mary and

Joseph's soon to be Messiah and step into all of all of the the

things that that he does through his life and his ministry.

So change opposition and joy. But I could imagine people out

there thinking, how do I, how do I know like that kind of

question. Yeah.

And and so when I look, when I look at the Magi, you know, like

it starts with them seeing a potential sign, right?

You know, they, they see these these stars and and they're

like, hey, like there's something interesting happening.

Now, again, I'm not, you know, not into astrology.

I always get those two mixed up. Astrology.

That's the right one, right? Like, although, you know, it is

very fascinating that that the, the fixation on some of this

kind of stuff. But but I think that they, they

see something different. They see something going on that

are like, OK, we need to check this out.

Like, so there's, there's a moment that kind of has provoked

curiosity for them that they don't just stay still.

They literally go what you said like 12 to 1600 kilometers or

something like that, like just like months long journey.

So they they see this. So I think, yeah, like when we

starting there, they they see the sign and then they got to

figure out what do we do with that?

Like there's something there to even just talk about.

Like our lives of us noticing something, you know, we're like,

OK, I'm getting the sense of of, you know, maybe it's someone

keeps telling me something or maybe maybe I'm getting a sense

from God, but I'm uncertain about it.

Or, or maybe this one thing keeps happening to me over and

over again. And like, you can border into

like superstition if you're not careful, you can border and see

like just sort of going with whatever, you know?

Like it's kind of like when you when you're like looking at a

car and you and you're like, I'm gonna buy that car.

And then you start seeing that car everywhere, right?

It's kind of the confirmation bias, right?

Yeah. And so you don't want that.

But at the same time, when you start noticing something, what

do you do with it, you know? So, yeah, and it's interesting

that for the Magi. So if, if they are like again,

we don't know a ton about the Magi, but I think I said on

Sunday, yeah, from what we do know is they they were Persian

clergy, like priests. And specifically they were one,

they were astrologers. They were ones who read the

stars and looked for signs, which is explicitly forbidden in

the Old Testament. Yeah, right.

So it is interesting. And I think worth naming that

like so practical, the practical like next step for you is not to

go and start looking at the stars and getting fascinated

with like astrology and signs and etcetera.

Like don't go buy a newspaper and look at whatever is.

Out here, what's right? What's your sign, baby?

That's not it. That's not it.

So it's it's fascinating to me that what draws them in is

something that is explicitly forbidden in the Old Testament

law. So that's number one.

I just find it interesting. What I find theological about

that is that the birth of Jesus into the world altered the world

like the, the the universe, the cause, right?

And So what what John does at the beginning of his gospel is

pick up that thread. In the beginning was the Word,

and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

And he says nothing that has come into being, basically

nothing that is that exists came into being without without the

Word, without Jesus. Jesus was with God in the

beginning. Through him the universe spun

into creation. So the birth of Jesus then into

that universe alters the universe in a way that people

who were not even looking for it saw because they were busy

looking at other things and other signs and other, you know,

figuring other things out. Yeah.

So it it Jesus birth kind of exploded into the world in a way

that altered the very world he created.

And so that I think is just, I think there's, it's

theologically interesting to me that there is a power in Jesus

already in his in his birth as he arrives into the world,

things are shifting and changing because of his presence and

people are noticing it. So let's talk about that for a

little bit because I think the, the magi notice the thing that

has changed. They notice that something is

different, and maybe we've got people who are starting to

notice things as well. What are some really practical

things for you to do in the midst of that?

Yeah, one I think very quickly. Prey and read scripture so you

know, I I think that if something is drawing you closer

to God, or at least so here's what I see in the magi to pursue

God then felt like follow that through.

I think lean into that. So if it is drawing you toward a

posture of prayer and toward Scripture in a way that like I

had to read and kind of see if what I'm sensing and noticing

aligns with Scripture, aligns with the story that that God has

been writing. And I need to pray and actually

start searching myself and God and allowing God to speak and

get quiet and, and do those, I think very quickly two things

that you should be doing. Yeah.

And then notice, all right, is the thing that I'm seeing or

feeling or sensing, is it, is it pulling me toward God or is it

making me flee or kind of run from God?

Like, do I want to bring this? So, you know, let's use

something fairly innocuous. Career path.

Yeah, OK. Like, what do you, what do you

want to do with your life? Right.

Maybe you're at a position where you have to make a decision.

And on the one hand, you've been thinking, well, really, since

that God is calling me to do this thing, right?

And. You want to name any

professions? Not professional.

And then on the other hand, you're like, but I really want

to do this thing, OK. And if if wanting to do this

thing, you're like, well, I'm not gonna pray about that

because I know what God's gonna say.

Cause you're probably dealing with something that, you know,

like maybe 1 is borders on, you know, it's gonna make you a lot

of money, but maybe it borders on some ethical conundrums.

Sure, maybe it's, maybe it's something that is, you know,

going to be more beneficial for society versus not.

But I think sometimes, like there could just be two

decisions and you're like, both of them viable, both of them

good options, both of them equally, whatever.

And and then so like, what do we do with with the pull toward one

versus the sensing that God might be calling us to?

And now they're like, that's where it feels a bit messier to

me. Ever like when they're both

like, these are both good calls. You know, I think, I think watch

for what you're willing to like submit to God and what you're

willing to bring to God and what draws you closer to God and what

you're trying to like, keep to yourself and trying to like,

well, like I'm like I said, like I'm not going to pray about this

or I'm not going to think about it too much because I want to do

it. And I know, like I just know if

I come to a place where I'm actually in prayer and thinking

and reading and surrendering it, I know like, yeah, yeah, OK.

Like that's, that's not going to be the thing.

And I'm going to sense, you know, God is calling me away

from it. So I think just pay attention.

I mean, with decisions that you have to make in general in life,

it changes that that may come things that you're trying to

pursue, people, relationships you're trying to pursue, like

what are you, what, how do they impact or what is your relation

to God in them? So, you know, are you willing to

surrender them to God in a sense of saying, OK, God, like what,

what what's your desire and design in this for me or not?

I think the things that you're trying to kind of hide back and

hold, like that's a good indicator of whether it is

something to pursue or not. Whether it's something that is

maybe a direction that God is leading you in or a direction

that is more based on your own want or desire or wishes, right?

So are you willing to come to a place of prayer, reading

scripture and surrendering it to God?

Is it drawing you toward or is it pushing you away?

That's a great indicator. So number one, number two,

number three is those around you.

We've got no reference for this in the Magi story.

But they are together. There's more.

And one of there's more than. One they're not making the

decision is in in a silo. It's it's not one who has come.

It's there. Yeah, you gotta you gotta

imagine again, not here. You have to imagine that there

would be conversation along the road.

What are we doing? Yeah.

Are we really going to do this? Like, I thought that guy was the

king of Kings. Like, what's going on?

Like how we're going to go. We're not visiting Harrod.

Like, what are we. We're looking for a baby.

Are we sure? It's like.

So they show up and they're look, they're they show up to

Jerusalem and they're like. But somebody point us in the

right direction. Like, where's this kid supposed

to be born? And it's interesting that that

Herod's own guys like, you know, talk to Herod and tell him where

the Messiah is meant to be born. And then Herod tells the Maggie

to go anyways. Like it's, it's interesting how

all of it is still working. Like even even inherits

insecurity and fear and anger and confusion and all of it.

He's still working toward, you know, the thing that, the thing

that God is doing. And so I, I think #1 pray #2 you

got to look at Scripture and #3 you've got to have a level of

accountability with others and, and have people in your life who

can say, yes, absolutely. This is, this is something that

we have all sensed in you. And we think that you should be

pursuing this or no dummy, like you're just listening to your

own, your own brain, Like this is your own feedback loop.

And you just have created an environment where what you want,

you're now portraying or you're projecting onto what God wants

for you. And you have, so you have to

have people in your life who know you well enough and who

trust you enough and who you trust enough for them to be able

to say that like literally like what I want them to say is, hey,

dummy, like this is not the thing.

Right. Yeah, yeah, which is OK.

So that's a, that's an interesting one.

I'm just kind of like parsing this out for myself because I'm

the type of person and maybe there are others out there that

are similarly temperament Ted, if that's a word, it probably

isn't, but that's OK where if someone comes to me and they're

like, I've got a I've got I've got this thing, I'm trying to

figure it out and people do come to us, you know, seeking some of

these things for me, like I want to be like a cheerleader.

I want to be like, yes, like that sounds amazing, like like

God is doing a cool work in you in this way.

And like I just want to be like Uber supportive all the time,

right. That's that's then tends to be

my approach. So This is why people should go

to you if they want encouragement.

Because, well, you do the opposite.

Have you prayed? Have you prayed about it?

Right. Like, it's going to be one of my

first questions. Yeah.

Like, have you prayed about it? And tell me about that, right.

Who in your life is is pointing you in the same direction?

OK, so they should go to you and then come to me.

Afterwards. Yeah, Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Perfect. So you've heard it, you've heard

it here. That's the that's the protocol.

If you're looking for discernment, Grant will will do

like the the hard work and then I get to just like cherry on.

So I think, yeah, I think that's the that is the challenge is,

you know, I think the the one of the hardest things in life is to

remain accountable. Yeah, right, is to live

accountable lives. And that takes like it takes

courage and it takes vulnerability and you've got it

takes relationship, like it takes time and effort and energy

and, and not. Superficial relationship, like

it's there. There has to be like a, a depth

of, of knowing, yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, I think for me, if somebody comes and says, yeah, I

have, I'm sensing like I'm hearing this from God.

I'm in the back of my head. I'm looking for those same

markers, right? So have they prayed about it?

And what are they sensing in that?

And how does it align with Scripture?

Because I'm convinced like there's not gonna be something

that somebody comes and says, God said this to me.

Like, well, that is like glaringly in opposition to the

story of the gospel as it unfolds.

So help me understand that. Like how how do we like, how do

you parse this out? How do you make sense of the

fact that what you're hearing from God is very different from

the way God shows up in Scripture?

That's just not going to happen. And, and it's tricky because

it's not like every single scenario we encounter today in

2025, almost 2026 is going to show up in Scripture, right?

But the the undergirding themes and and the trajectory of those

decisions, you know, we can ask ourselves, is this, is this in

some way bringing God's Kingdom great in a greater way to earth,

or is it doing the exact opposite?

Yeah. OK.

So we have, let me give you a really practical example before

we move on. In our ordination system, within

our denomination, there are a couple or many different steps,

but in order to become a minister, you can't just believe

God is calling you to ministry. That's not good enough.

Like it's not enough. Yeah, we have a process where,

yes, you need to be deeply convinced that God is calling

you to ministry. You may not even want to do it,

but you are convinced that God is calling you and you then are

taking a step of obedience to wrestle out that discernment

very, very quickly within our process.

Then you get into groups of of people and so session like the

the elders at your church need to affirm that call in you and

then presbytery, our geographical region, we're part

of Waterloo Wellington Presbytery.

So all the ministers and elders from those areas, they also need

to affirm that in you. And it's not that they like

everything about you. It's not that they even agree

with all of your theology or you've figured everything out.

Like far from it. You are wrestling it out.

But what needs to happen is that every step there is this like

call and response where you believe and, and are convinced

that God is calling you to ministry and then others affirm

that calling in you. And at any point, if the

majority of people don't affirm that God is calling you into

ministry, that's a that's a barrier to you.

That's not going to, that's not necessarily going to rule you

out forever for all time, but but there are multiple steps.

And then you need to actually receive a call from a

congregation in order to be ordained that there's just,

there's so many steps along the way where it's groups of people

who affirm the thing in you. And that's what I wish for all

of our people, is to get yourself into a group of

individuals. It doesn't need to be a lot, but

have a few people around you who you can text and say, hey, I'm

starting to sense this thing from God.

Can you pray for me? Yeah.

And then eventually, can we have a conversation about it.

And I need you to ask me the hard questions.

And I need you to, like, really challenge me on it.

And then, you know, then you can start to really become convinced

that, yeah, this is this is this is from God.

And I think, you know, we see it.

We see it throughout Scripture. And that's not to say that human

beings can't get it messed up. Like we, we can mix it up and we

can make mistakes. Absolutely.

You know, I remember the story one, one person coming into

ministry and I I think early on the session was like, no, we

don't see it. We don't see it.

And that that person says that person has gone on to become a

very, I'll use this word carefully, like successful, like

a very successful pastor. Pastor is a church so well and

carefully and intentionally and was exactly the person that that

congregation needed. Probably the opposite happened.

To and the opposite has happened yeah, absolutely where somebody

comes in and you know like raring to go and they're like

yeah absolutely. I feel called to go into

ministry and yeah, they shouldn't.

Well, but as you're talking that through, like, I think that

there are not a lot of career paths just using that cause it's

the most tangible. I think, yeah, that that offer

that level of discernment. Unless you're kind of like, you

know, if you're vying for a, you know, for like a, a sea level,

you know, job at an organization, maybe they're

gonna do their vetting process in a similar way.

But but I think that there's such a cool opportunity for the

body of Christ to be that discernment process for one

another in in a way that, like, you know, if you're applying for

a job, they're gonna look at whether you're qualified and

whether you're gonna be a fit. And that if you're those things,

maybe they'll hire you if you're the the cream of the crop,

right? Yeah.

Versus like truly asking ourselves, is this where God is

leading me? Right.

Like that is such a gift that that the body of Christ can

offer that other places simply can't.

Yeah. So just to bring it all home, I

think we're, you know, very practically talking about change

and God calling you to a life of change and growth.

Like to grow is to change. Yeah.

To become more like Jesus is to change.

Those changes are difficult. Um, but you know, I absolutely

believe that you're called to get up and go, go where?

That's where the discernment process comes in, right?

Change how grow how, in what ways?

What do I need to leave behind? How is God calling me to move

forward? Those are things that are meant

to be wrestled out in community. And when it comes to opposition,

like what, what is opposition or what is my own fear?

Like what's the difference between opposition and fear?

Or how do I understand? How do I know whether like, is

this opposition to the change or is this actually the change that

God wants me to make? Like I don't want to do it.

Is that position or is that a change that I just don't want to

do? All of those really practical

questions that I can imagine people having after the message

on Sunday community is the answer to those and meaningful

relationships that do hold your feet to the fire in a way that

like, yes, it's aligned with what we see and are praying for

you and have been sensing. No, it's not.

Yes, it's aligned with scripture and what we see in throughout

the the the breadth of it and the gospel coming, the Kingdom

arriving. No, it's not.

Those are hard conversations, but um, to the person asking

like how, how change, how opposition from where, like

those are the, those are the conversations that I think is,

is indicating to you that you ought to be having a

conversation about that thing with somebody.

Opposition is, you know, especially in Christian circles

can be an interesting thing because because we do believe in

kind of external forces, even spiritual forces that that

exists. And and so sometimes, you know,

I've heard it, I've heard it in certain circles of like any

opposition to this is clearly, you know, from, from the evil

one, right? And I'm like, man, that that's

like maybe, maybe, but also it might not be.

And if you're just unilaterally deciding that that can be a

problem, right? And that that feels like I I've

seen it happen and it's dangerous when someone can just

self declare that hey, this opposition I'm facing is from

the devil. Absolutely.

Or especially so when somebody declares you in your opposition

toward me. Like that's from the Get Behind

Me Satan kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, it can.

It can turn, it can turn unhealthy.

So yes, there's opposition from Satan.

Yes, absolutely. The accuser higher like that,

that is opposition. What I want for people to see

when we talk about opposition is in in this story, especially the

opposition is not toward the magi here.

It helps them find Jesus. Yeah, right.

Like ironic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So. So what hard does he calls his

own scribes, teachers of the law.

He's like, guys, remind me, where's this?

Where's this Messiah supposed to be coming from?

Like, help me out here. And then he tells them that

that's where like he's he's supposed to be born in

Bethlehem. That's where you'll find him.

Oh, and by the way, when you find him, come back and report

him to me. Like he's manipulating the

thing. Yeah, but but the opposition.

So. So yes, there's opposition.

It's not the opposition isn't hair doesn't strike up an army

and prevent the magi from finding Jesus and going and

worshiping him, right? They're they're like, yeah,

dude, like we know that you're kind of the king, but apparently

there's a new better king who's born.

We're going to go worship him. Like I know that the gold and

the murder, the frankincense, like it looks nice.

Like, like we got it. We're taking it to this baby and

hard doesn't stop them. That's not the opposition.

He he helps them find Jesus. The opposition is entirely

against what God is doing and I think that that's the other

thing that I want for people to wrestle out and understand is

that there will be opposition because of what God is doing in

your life. Sometimes you make a mistake and

there's like quote, I'm using air quotes here opposition

because you you made a mistake and you were wrong and somebody

challenged you on that. That's not opposition like we're

talking about. It's the opposition that we see

in this story. We're going to see it in like

100 fold exponential measure next Sunday is toward

exclusively what God is doing and not toward the individual

human beings involved. And so for us like that, I think

is worth remembering that that like if I make a poor decision

and there is a, there's some some feedback or fallout or

pushback about a decision that might not be a good decision.

That's not necessarily opposition that that could be

mean with me making a poor decision.

You never. And OHS, yeah, just wait.

No, I, I right. Like, I think we're, we can be

very quick to say opposition. I don't need to listen to that.

And you know, that's a dangerous card to play as well.

So you know, where there's opposition, it is to what God is

doing. And that will also, I think, be

confirmed by those around you. And yeah, I I have stories that

we don't need to go into, but yeah.

I, I think there's another form of opposition that that can take

on in our, in our own minds, right?

That I know for me that I can be externally and even internally

confirmed of, of a calling or a decision or whatever.

And yet what happens in, in, you know, as we're trying to fall

asleep at night or we wake up in the middle of the night and

we're just like plagued with, with like self doubts or just

doubt or, or just all of those negative thoughts.

And, and I think at some point it can turn into almost a

spiritual battle, right? That that it's it.

There is there is opposition that is happening to cause us to

stop doing what God might be calling us to.

So this is, this is, uh, I've talked about this book before.

There's a great book and it's called antipyretic Toss.

The subtitle is so, so in English that is, that's the

Greek word for talking back. And it's funny because like, as

a what parent has not said, don't talk back to me.

That's what this book encourages you, follower of Jesus, to do to

those intrusive thoughts, those anxious patterns that are very

often from Satan, from the evil one, from the accuser, from the

devil. And so the subtitle of this book

is A Monastic Handbook for Combating Demons.

OHS that one, Yeah. And if you buy any book this

Christmas for a loved one, please buy that one.

I just think the conversations that you will have when somebody

opens that book will be incredible.

I'm monastic handbook for combating demons.

But when you open it up, it's this incredible, thoughtful,

simple practice of linking, linking intrusive thoughts to

Scripture that remind you of deeper truths about you and

about God. That's that's all it does.

But it's so profound because what it does is it gives you

language to talk back to the anxious thought.

I love so so, he says against the demon of sadness.

And then he has all these different like against the

thought that tells me that I and this I'm I'm making up, I I

can't quote a specific one, but like against the thought that

tells me I am unloved. Hmm.

Right against the thought that tells me I will not be happy.

Or worse, against the thought that tells me I do not deserve

to be happy. And then he links the scripture

and all all he's encouraging you to do.

So this guy's name, Evagrius of Pontus, and he was a desert

father and he traveled around the desert people.

Would how far back we going here?

Like so like 3? Hundreds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So early, early days.

Yeah, yeah. So he would travel around the

desert and basically he saw Jesus being tempted by the devil

in the desert after fasting for 40 days and he's like, great, me

too, sign me up, I'll go. And he's like, so he's, he spent

his life like wrestling out combating the devil and using

scripture to do it. So people would would search him

out and ask for his advice and ask for him to teach them how to

do the same thing. And then he started

corresponding with some some early monastics in letters and

and that's what turned into this book.

So it just gives you very simple scripture truths about who you

are, about who God is. That pushes against those

thoughts. And sometimes you read it and

you're like, this is the thought.

This is the literal thought that I have been having.

And sometimes you're like, I my thought is not in here, but what

it gives us a pattern. And I think that that there is

there is power in naming what is true.

It's the pattern that Jesus used.

Have you not heard like in Scripture, it says, do not put

the Lord your God to the test. And there's no response.

There's no retort. There's no throwback from the

from the devil. It's just like, OK, fine.

You know what is true. And This is why for centuries

Christians have been so intent on memorizing Scripture.

That's not to like win a certificate, right?

It's so that you can, in these moments, recall the things that

that push against those thoughts.

So it's a really practical, fascinating book.

Here's what I want people to hear.

Yes, I, I believe and I know that the opposition can and is

often spiritual. And you will feel it like the

anxiety that blasts you in the middle of the night and wakes

you up and your heart's racing, right?

Like, you know, there might be a whole lot of pattern things that

have led you to that moment, but there are also spiritual

realities that you can speak into those moments.

Listen, like Bible verses are not necessarily gonna cure your

anxiety. No.

Nor is like memorizing scripture going to fix your depression.

Like there are clinical reasons for those things.

There are also spiritual things that attach themselves to those

emotions and moments. So Connie uses my wife uses this

language and I'm not sure where she got it.

So until I figure out where she got it, she gets all the credit.

Rats are attracted to garbage. I think we might have figured

out where that was from. I think it was like Charles

Kraft or something. Like that someone, but until I

remember where it came from. Yeah, she gets all the credit.

So, so into those, you know, I think, I think the opposition,

the spiritual opposition that can attach itself to those

depression moments, that can attach themselves to those

anxious moments are very real. And so this, you know, there's a

there's a power in just speaking against it.

And then then what's beautiful about this book is like he moves

on music and then move on. Do you speak against it?

The language that I really love is there's there's power in

speaking the name of Jesus out loud.

Like I remember where I was. I can like, and, and for me,

like that's a big thing. Like I can close my eyes and

picture the entire house where I was when I heard for the very

first time a pastor into a house and a for a family that was

filled with oppression and like spiritual oppression and what I

can only describe as like, demonic oppression.

Yeah. Spoke the name of Jesus and the

veil like the hood, the the darkness that lifted like I it

it is not like I don't listen, like I don't want everybody to

go down that path all the time about everything.

Yeah. But I can remember exactly where

I was when I heard for the first time just, hey, we're going to

speak the the name of Jesus in the name of Jesus is stronger

than anything that could be or is here.

And the shift that happened, and there's way more to that story

that we're not going to get into.

Yeah. But the shift that that happened

in that moment was for me, like, that transformed my my identity

as a pastor because I grew up in a denomination that that doesn't

dismiss these things, but certainly doesn't talk about

them openly readily. And I didn't grow up in a

denomination that like, almost idolizes it, right?

Where it's like, if you haven't had one of these experiences,

then you must not be a Christian.

Like, you can air on both sides where you talk about it all the

time. You can talk about it none of

the time. Um, thanks.

Yes, Los has a quote about that, right?

It's like, yeah, just, yeah, don't do either of those things.

But there's power in the name of Jesus.

And so I think for the person who needs to hear that.

There is more power in seeking that name into into a moment

then we often believe or think or tend to act upon.

Yeah, so. So, so, so when we look at the

discernment process of, of, of making the decision and moving

forward the decision, and then we kind of contrast that with

the potential opposition and discerning whether that is a

genuine opposition or a, an external force or internal force

of some kind that that gives us a lot to chew on.

There's probably a lot of other places we could go, but perhaps

that's probably a good. Anything else you wanted?

To say, let's let's end here, Let's end here.

Yeah. So the magi make it to Jesus and

they're overjoyed. Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's they're overjoyed and they

worship. They bring gifts.

I think one thing that I didn't name in in my sermon.

So you've got worship as like man, the, the, the amount of joy

that you can access in the presence of Jesus through

worship is significant. Yeah.

And so for sure, part of that is is song singing and you know,

but ordering all of your life around the presence of Jesus.

Number 2, they, they give him, they bring him gifts, they lay

them at his as there's a surrender there, there is an

honoring, there's a lifting high.

There is a declaring Jesus to be who he says he is.

And I think there's power in worship to access joy.

There's power in declaring Jesus to be who he says he is in, in

terms of understanding joy and peace and hope in the face of

maybe opposition that you have, right?

So to declare Jesus to be who he says he is, like almost in the

face of opposition, it's like, Hey, you're not going to change.

You're going to change my position, my posture, right?

There's a declaration there. The other thing that I would add

is gratitude. We talked about this last week

with Allison a little bit, but gratitude is the amount of joy I

think that you can access by practicing.

Gratitude is tremendous. Yeah.

So worship, declare Jesus who he says he is and be grateful.

And I think on the other side, in the midst of, as you change,

as you wrestle that out, as you face opposition, you will still

yet while on the road experience joy.

And it's when we lose the worship.

It's when we lose the declaration of who Jesus is.

It's when we just shift our eyes away from those truths and

realities, when we fail to be grateful and when we start being

resentful and bitter and woe is me and how could I be where I am

in in life and, and man, people wrestle with really hard things.

But it's when we lose sight of those things that I think joy

erodes. Hmm.

And so don't lose sight of those 3 worshipped clergy is to be who

he is. Be grateful.

And I think joy in the midst of change, in the midst of

opposition, absolutely accessible.

That's a way better place and that's great.

Well, let's, yeah, let's let's close out there.

And so if you have any further thoughts or like we've been

saying, if you have anything that you've been practicing,

particularly over Advent into Christmas that you'd love to to

share or other questions you have, you can send those to you

questions at courtrightchurch.org and we will

see you next week.