Podcast: Holy Spirit in our lives and the life of the church (Acts 1&2)

Hey friend, welcome to another episode of the Sunday.

Sit down and we are happy to have you along with us for

another conversation around sermon from this past Sunday.

So a little bit different. This last Sunday was Part 2 of

A2, part where two weeks ago on the 28th, we showed a video of

our internal like insider baseball sermon prep

conversation that happens every week here at the building.

And then this past Sunday, I preached on that same passage or

passages from Acts 1 and 2. So this was our launch into the

new year and for Sunday of 2026, basically just trying to slow us

down and think a little bit about who we're called to be and

how we're called to be. Yeah.

And what is it that enables us to do the things that we believe

God has called us to do? So spoiler alert, it does.

The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what it

enables us to do the things that God calls us to do.

So that's what we're talking. About, yeah.

And these are great passages to return to, I think regularly

like like that as a church, if you only talk about this like

once in a generation, like you're doing yourself a

disservice. So when you look at the, at the,

this Acts 2 church and, and the coming of the Holy Spirit, and

hopefully you're doing that fairly regularly, whether it's

Pentecost or other, you know, whatever.

But like, these are passages that I, I was thinking about

that as you were preaching. I, I wasn't there for worship

yesterday, but I was listening this morning and it struck me as

like, man, the church needs to talk about these passages like

every couple of years at least. You know, they're, they're so

foundational and, and formative, which is I think what we're

after is we want to see how is this?

How is the gift of the spirit shaping who we are as a, as, as

an individual, as a church, as people?

Yeah, I, I agree. So I think what I, what I hope I

did and what I tried to do is, is say like there are some core

habits of the church, like there are some core markers, There are

some things that every church should be doing.

And we see that at the very beginning of the church in Acts

as it's being formed and shaped. And so that's where we started

was with this idea that like the the church really has always and

should always continue to be devoted to these things.

Yeah. And so I was just going back to

it. So in Acts 2, it says they

devoted the early church devoted themselves to the apostles

teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to

prayers. And awe came upon every soul.

Many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles,

and all who believed were together had everything in

common. Then it goes on to say, like

they start selling their possessions and giving to those

who have need. Like as needs arise, people

choose to sell their things so that they have to give away.

And they continue to eat together, they break bread, they

share communion, they have meals in each other's homes.

And they do it all with this glad and sincere heart.

Like it's, it's like, how can we, how could I like, what would

I have to do to convince myself to sell all that I have give to

those who don't and do it with a glad and sincere heart.

Like, I think it's just such a, it's such a striking and

convincing, compelling image of what the church should look like

and can look. Like, and it's not something

that like I, I don't think we are generally going to be

compelled on our own by our own volition, our own just like will

hmm, to do those things. I think there's always gonna be

times where it's when you talk about specifically selling

things, sometimes, you know, people will see a need arise.

They'll see a, you know, a humanitarian crisis or whatever.

And they say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give to that.

I'm gonna sacrifice. Something like that happens once

in a while, I think, depending on the person.

But I think to have a a life that is dedicated to these

things, devoted to these things, that takes something different,

which is I think where we're sort of going with this, which

is the the work of the Holy Spirit and that being the

precursor to the devotedness of these apostles.

Yeah, yeah. And I like I alluded to this,

you know, we talked a little bit about what it means to be

devoted and like, what is actually devotion?

What does it look like? And so I compared it to, you

know, a marriage and basically said, you know, you can tell,

like you can see when a spouse, when spouses are devoted to one

another, it looks different than just simply being together or

choosing something. It's it's a love and a longing

and a committed madness that acts toward the other.

I think love is really what grounds it.

And, you know, one of the reasons why Christians have,

have had such a high view of marriage is because we believe

that it in, in many ways is created by what it entirely is

created by a God who is love. And in many ways it represents.

Yeah. God's love toward humanity.

Yeah. And sacrificially and what, you

know, all of what it, what that ought to look like.

Obviously we know it doesn't, and it falls short and we're

humans and we fail. But you know, to be devoted to

something, it requires love. And what was the word?

What was the word that that you like or the phrase that you

used? Like you said, there was like a

translation like the Latin or whatever, Like what was there

was a way to to think about devotedness that you mentioned?

Yeah. So it's, it's so French.

And then before French, Old French, Latin, it's it's a word

that simply means to vow singularly.

So it's to be devoted to something is to vow to like

singulate so, so singularly, singularly.

I can't say that word. It's a hard.

Word professional communicator to vow singularly toward a thing

usually a person right yeah. So that's why the marriage

works. Is, is the IT is the act of

vowing of of committing yourself by vow legal, you know,

commitment in front of witnesses to a singular person that I

think is the closest image that we have to this.

So, yeah, to vow singularly. Got it that time.

Yeah. Toward usually toward a a

person. In this case, it's toward like a

group of people. It's like toward the church and

entity and the work, the work and life of the church.

Right. So they devoted themselves to

the life of the church is really what we see.

And I think it's rooted and, and this is where like I've

mentioned this, but didn't take a lot of time to go down this

this path. Like I think it's rooted

ultimately in God's love and devotion toward humanity.

And that's why it requires the Holy Spirit to enable in us

because you and I, we and, and anybody you know, so you

listener like we want to be devoted to a whole lot of

different things. And I think we have love or want

to love or have inclination toward a whole lot of different

things. And so it takes a conscious

choice, an effort and decision and empowerment to choose

against those things, towards something else.

So James K Smith, who I quoted, wrote a book on Augustine's

theology, and it's called You Are what you Love.

And like, that's the idea. Like we are, we are loving

beings. We are beings who love.

And that's why I love that quote.

You know, he says we're not, we're not primarily thinking

beings. We're loving beings.

But here's the trick. Our love is shaped and formed by

our habits. And so if we just let ourselves

love whatever we want to love and like habituate or make

habits out of those things, we're going to love more of

those things. And so there needs to be this

conscious decision to vow away from those multiple of things.

So again, like a marriage, when what you are doing is you are

vowing your love. I don't even know if that's a

word. Vowing I, I made it.

It is now. It is, but you are you are

vowing to be committed singularly to your spouse away

from any other quote like air quotes here, potential spouses.

So that's what you do when you marry somebody.

You are saying I'm singularly devoted to you over and against

everybody else. Yeah.

And that becomes like your, your, your, your person, your

primary commitment, your, that, that first relationship.

And So what the early church does is they form a community

that is devoted to the things of Jesus and the things of the

early, like the things that work of the church and of God's

Kingdom over and against their own kingdoms over and against

other religions and other kingdoms over and against

empire. So living in Rome, like, like

not in Rome, but like in Roman occupied land, like they're,

they're committing themselves, they're devoting themselves over

and against all of these other things that they could be

devoted to, to the work of the church.

Yeah. And the work of the Kingdom.

So that takes the power of the Holy Spirit.

That takes it takes people who are living in step and empowered

by the Spirit. And so that raises other

questions kind of connected specifically to the person of

the Holy Spirit, the the how we as believers understand that we

receive the Spirit and we were just in our brief chat before

pushing record. We're like, oh, it's, it's, it's

sometimes a little complicated, sometimes a little bit

interesting. The way that the Bible, I guess,

I guess maybe the way I would say it is like the way that the

Bible reveals the Holy Spirit, right, Because when you go into

into the the Hebrew Bible, the Spirit is, is certainly

mentioned like all throughout, right, But very differently.

You know, like when you read through like say like especially

the like I'm thinking of like First Samuel with like Saul and

whatnot and often talks about like the holy, the Spirit

rushing upon these individuals, like the kings and whatnot.

Yeah. And I don't have like a, a fully

fleshed out, I'll use a big word, pneumatology for the, for

the Spirit and the Old Testament.

But there it certainly shifts in the New Testament, right.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, well, there's there's a whole books could and should

and can and will and have been written on the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, I'm actually working through one right now.

I'm listening to one started off my new year with Tyler Staton's

book on the Holy Spirit and it is called The Familiar Stranger.

OHS that's which is a great title.

I've decided I'm only buying books with awesome titles.

So anyways it's a good one. The Familiar Stranger and I'm

far enough in that I think I could recommend.

I try not to recommend books I have not read entirely, but I'm

far enough in, I've read enough of his stuff that, yeah, easily,

easily recommend it. So there's a whole lot of

different places. Let me just do like a hop, skip

and a jump for us really quick. So in, in Genesis, we see the

Spirit of God like this, this divine breath.

Yeah, the ruach of God hovering over at the time of creation.

And so, so there is the Spirit of God present from the very

beginning of what Scriptures speak about God and about the

world and God's presence in the world and involvement in its

creation and continued involvement in the world.

So there are passages where, you know, Moses is led up the

mountain and where he's told go, you know, go up and my I will

pass like my spirit will pass in front of you.

So the Old Testament has this language just baked into it

about the Spirit of God being, you know, God's presence in the

world. And it is though in this, I

think this is where it may be becomes a little bit more

difficult for for Christians to to picture and understand it.

It feels at least a little bit like this disembodied like

presence, yeah, which is just hard to name and it's hard to

picture and it's hard to relate to.

But the what, what I think is important to notice is in the

Old Testament we have these characters who are relating to

the Holy Spirit as a as the presence of God.

And I think what what later Christians would describe as a

person of God. So you see it there.

And Ezekiel. So Ezekiel's got this great the

valley of dry bones passages. And so like in in Ezekiel,

there's so starting in 37 the hand of the Lord was on me and

he brought me out in the spirit of the Lord and set me down in

the middle of a valley. And then he says, you know, son

of man, can these bones live? And I answered, you know, Lord

only you know. And then he said to me, prophecy

over these bones and say them dry bones, hear the word of the

Lord. And so he says, Listen, I will

cause breath to enter into you and you shall live.

And then, you know, sinus form on their bones and then there's

there's flesh and but it says they.

Kind of creepy, yeah. Exactly.

So but he's prophesying. It's, it's, it's this, it's,

it's an image that Ezekiel has. It's this prophetic image that

God sweeps him up into. And it's, it's got this really

powerful image of humanity and being created and then given the

breath of God into them, similarly to into in Genesis,

where God breathed his spirit into Adam and Eve.

Hmm. And so this this goes on, yeah,

basically it goes on to a point where he says, and I wanna find

the exact word in verse 8. He says, and I looked and

behold, there were sinews on them and flesh had come upon

them and skin had covered them, but there was no breath in them.

So, so Ezekiel taken through this whole like prophetic image

where he's he's prophesying to these dead, dusty, dry bones in

a valley. And you know, God says, hey, can

these live? And Ezekiel says, you know, only

you know God, but if anybody can do it, you can do it.

And so he says prophesied of the bones say like I will make flesh

come back on and sinews to form and muscles and tendons and skin

like I will breathe new life into you.

But also and all of that happens, but there's no life in

them until until in 90 says then he said it's me prophecy to the

breath prophecy, Son of man. Thus says the Lord of God come

from the four winds of breath and breathe on these slain that

they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded

in the breath came into them and they lived and stood on their

feet and exceedingly great army. And then he goes on to say how

you know this, these this image represents the House of Israel.

And like it's a it's a prophecy for Israel and for the future

redemption and restoration and etcetera.

But he goes on through this whole passage at the end of 37,

God is still speaking to his ego, and he says my dwelling

place shall be with him, and I will be their God and they shall

be my people. So those are lines that we then

attribute to Jesus and also the coming of the Holy Spirit.

You know, I will set them into their land and multiply them.

I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever, like my presence

will be with them forever. Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

So we get this like mixture of, of accounts where the Holy

Spirit is present and active and related to and relating to these

characters in the Old Testament, these people who encounter God

through his Spirit and also acting as this creative, I

hesitate to say force or power because I want us to think away

from that and more toward a person.

But this, this the creative energy of God in the world, the

creative presence of God in the world that creates humanity and

then recreates humanity and continues to recreate humanity.

So then just to jump forward when we jump to the New

Testament and start seeing passages where the Spirit is

present both as a person, like as as a a, a person of God to be

related to and a power that's really continuing forward.

A lot of the imagery that we get in the Old Testament where

people are relating to the Holy Spirit, it's a presence that

passing by them and it is this creative and recreative presence

and power of God active in the world so.

And then sorry, like in Jesus early ministry, we see, you

know, the, the spirit at work, especially around like Jesus

baptism and whatnot, the spirit hovering over like a like a

dove. And then and then it gets pretty

full on as Jesus talks about talks about the the gift and

coming of the Holy Spirit even long before he he dies and is

raised. And as in a sense, which one are

you going to? You going, John?

Yeah, I was gonna go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's that's where I was hoping you would go.

Yeah. So like where Jesus gives like

this bold claim while you just read it?

Yeah, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to find it.

Exactly. Yeah.

But you know, John is talking to his disciples and essentially he

says if if I don't go away, then the Holy Spirit then then I

won't send the Holy Spirit. And so he says it's for your

benefit that I'm going away. So he's, he's predicting his

death. He's well, he's talking about

his death and he's saying I'm going to go.

He's not only talking about his death, but he's actually talking

about his ascension as well. So death, resurrection, and then

ascension of Jesus. And so that's what we see at the

beginning of Acts. GSS is taken up into heaven and

he says to his disciples when the helper comes so this he he's

got. It's all this language, but in

in Acts or not Acts, sorry. In John, John 15, he says when

the helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the

spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, he will bear

witness about me. And you also will bear witness

because you have been with me from the beginning.

So it's kind of mixed up, this one.

Anyways, this passage is mixed up a little bit into this.

You know, the world's gonna hate you, and that's OK.

If it hates you, don't worry. It hated me before they hated

you. Just get over and get on with

it. But not, that's not actually

what you said. But he's saying like, don't

worry about that. It's going to happen.

It's fine and we get one of these passages that that shows

Jesus promising the Spirit and promising that the Spirit will,

you know, proceeds from the Father will bear witness about

me. And in in another passage, he

says, and I think that's in 16, he says essentially what what I

said, which is I'm going away. It's a good thing that I will go

away because if I don't, then the Holy Spirit won't come.

And if I do, the Holy Spirit will come, and the Holy Spirit

will do some very specific things.

Verse John 67 So very truly I tell you it is for your good

that I'm going away. Unless I go away, the advocate

will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to

you. Yeah.

And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning

sin, righteousness and judgment concerning sin, because they do

not believe in me, concerning righteousness, because I go to

the Father and you will see me no longer.

So the righteousness of Christ and Christ's earned

righteousness. And then he says concerning

judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

And I just go, man, like that's such a powerful theological

statement about what Jesus has accomplished.

Yeah. So death, resurrection,

ascension, spirit comes. The Spirit testifies about sin

because the world is broken and people don't recognize who Jesus

is and they're, you know, the need that we have about

righteousness because I go to the Father because I've earned,

he said Jesus because I've earned this righteousness right

standing before God has now been made possible for the human.

I go to God or I go to the Father, he says, and then

concerning judgment because not because the world will be

judged, but because God the Father has placed his divine

judgment on the person of Jesus. And Jesus has one righteousness

on behalf of humanity. So like it's such a powerful

theological, like theological statement.

But that's the work of what Jesus is saying is the work of

the Holy Spirit who convicts and challenges and reminds and

encourages and then does it all over again.

Convicts and challenges and encourages, reminds us of who

Jesus is and our deep need for what he's accomplished.

So what the Holy Spirit doesn't do here, and I love this, the

Holy Spirit is like, doesn't say, yeah, the Holy Spirit is

going to make you feel so guilty about all that you've done that

you finally recognize and realize that, you know, you need

to be better, right? Right.

So all of what the Holy Spirit does is is teach and convict the

the human being based on entirely based on who Jesus is

and what Jesus has accomplished. And so then when we get to Acts,

we get even more like we get even an even greater sense of

who the Spirit is. And so in Acts 1 and Jesus, you

know, says I am, I'm going to leave sending, sending the

Spirit. And, and then we, we have this,

this moment in Acts 2 where the spirit comes almost in a similar

way. Like when you, when you, you

know, see the language in, in the, in the Old Testament about

the way that the spirit comes upon people.

Hmm. Like it often is the language

feels a little similar. And then, but something is

different here because it feels like this is like, this is not

just a one time. The spirit is going to rush upon

this place and then not return. But no, this is like, this is

like for good. This is like available to every

believer for all time, you know? But the revelation of the Spirit

seems to continue on a little bit over the course of of the

early church as well. So there's something interesting

there, yeah. I think it's So what I want

people thinking about and I, I said that I alluded to this.

I actually think I said this in a prayer on Sunday, not actually

as part of the sermon, you know, but we've alluded to it already.

I, I want for us to be thinking about the Holy Spirit as a

person to be related to and not a power to be tapped into.

So I think that's one of the mistakes that we make as

Christians in the West. And I'll just say that is that

we, we view the Holy Spirit as a power, like exclusively as just

a power that we as Christians have access to when we need it.

And it's like, OK, I got to figure that out.

But I know the Holy Spirit is there if I need God's power, if

I need etcetera, or if I'm going through whatever it is like it's

this power external to me. You think of like, I've, I've

got this battery bank and I take it with me to the cottage and we

go up north because the power always goes out there.

Yeah. And what I have to do is I have

to charge that battery so that I can charge like my phone, a

camera, things like that, right? Yeah.

And so sure enough, you know, I usually forget to plug that

thing in a few days before we leave.

And so I plug it into the car. I'm like, hopefully this will

generate enough power that if the power goes out, we're fine.

So anyways, I've got this battery bank that I carry around

and I think we kind of consider, you know, think about it this

way, that if we think about ourselves as that battery bank,

like we're gonna deplete and then when we need it, we can

plug ourselves back in and recharge and then go on our way

until we need it again. And it's yes, there is power

that God offers through the giving of the Holy Spirit, but

it's a power that is in found I found in God's presence,

continual presence and not in this, OK, my, you know, battery

banks a little low. I better go plug it in, get what

I need and then move on. So person to be related to as

opposed to power just simply to be tapped into.

It's something that, that I, I worry about sometimes and, and

certain traditions of, of Christianity will focus on the

power and presence of the spirit in different ways.

And I, and I'm, I'm worried sometimes when we do focus so

much on, on the power of the spirits, because it almost feels

like when, when the power of the spirit doesn't show up in a, in

a kind of mind bending kind of way, like whether whether it's a

healing or whatever, we're kind of left like disappointed.

Where whereas if, if I read again, like just some of the

things that the at the end of Acts 2, when we see like the way

that the Spirit has has settled into the Holy Spirit's work in,

in the church, it's a lot of normal stuff like supernatural,

but normal, you know, like they're, they're, they're

breaking bread together, they're praying together.

They're they're giving away possessions.

They are like, they have found this like settled way of being.

And yeah, like there, there's cool miracles as well.

Like God is doing some like profound things, but the, the

presence of the spirits, I think, and then maybe this is

maybe this is a bold claim. I think the presence of this

spirit should generally be like normal, like like that, that

when we, when it is normative that we just, we're, we're going

to be generous with our stuff and we're going to and because

that is a sign of of the gods of God's presence at work in me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. You know, I think just like the

early church had to figure out, or actually the, the church just

like the disciples had to figure out who Jesus is, right.

So they've got these like 3, roughly 3 years with him.

And at the beginning I got like, who is this guy?

Yeah, I could he be like, Oh yeah, this guy's definitely on

Messiah, like oht, but we misunderstood what Messiah

meant. OK, alright.

So you see the disciples throughout their entire journey

with Jesus discovering who Jesus is.

And I like that as an image because I think we as Christians

continue to wrestle that out and need to need to in relationship

to the Holy Spirit, allow God to reveal who is the Holy Spirit

and how is God present in my life.

So I could see you know, and and we had one, one question asked,

which is essentially how does one receive the Holy Spirit

right? How do you how do you get the

the spirit? How do you understand it and I

go like so understand it in relationship overtime probably

not entirely not going to be able to person to be related to

is is a dynamic relationship that you need to work at and

invite yourself into an invite got into and ask for revelation.

So there's this great line in in Luke where Jesus says how much

more will God give the Holy Spirit to those who ask.

So I think there's a certain level of ask and it's, it comes

in like Jesus is saying, ask, keep on asking, seek, keep on

seeking, knock, keep on knocking.

And you know what? Those who keep on asking and

keep on seeking and keep on knocking, keep it like those are

gonna be the ones who find the door will be opened.

And how much more will your father give?

So he's, he's talking about, you know, fish and loaves and snakes

and eggs and good gifts and bad gifts.

But you know, he says how much more.

So Jesus is a assumption, right? And, and what Jesus declares in

that statement is that God will give you the Holy Spirit as you

ask. God's presence, the Holy Spirit

will be with you as you ask. So first screen, I wrote some

other passages down that are just helpful.

First Corinthians 619, which has to do with lawsuits against

believers and sexual immorality. But Paul has this line at the

end. He says, or do you not know that

your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you

have from God? You are not your own.

And so he's saying, hey, listen, flee from sexual immorality.

Don't sue each other. You guys gotta figure some stuff

out. Don't you know that your body is

the temple? So think about what that

statement means. Like the temple for Jewish

believers, like for Jewish believers of Jesus, like the

temple was the place where God's presence dwelt Noah like no

other place. Yeah, God's presence was in the

temple and people had to Pilgrim like Pilgrim, they make

pilgrimage to the temple in order to access God's presence.

And even then, only certain people were allowed to go into

where God's presence was and only at certain times and with

ropes tied around their waist in case they died, somebody could

pull them out, like right there was a whole thing.

But that like the God's presence was known.

Hey, if you want to seek God that the temple is where you go.

Paul says by by Paul's writing, it's already he's assumes that I

say, hey, don't you know, haven't you guys figured it out?

Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

God's presence is like is with you in you, and so therefore you

need to act differently than you're acting.

That's where he wants to go. But it's an assumption that he

makes. And so I think that's that's

also helpful to say like Jesus, his base assumption, God gives

the Holy Spirit to those who ask.

Paul's base assumption is that God gives the Holy Spirit to

dwell inside of you as you become a follower of Jesus.

So it's not something that is earned.

It's not something that is found.

It's not something that is like, you know, you, you get the Holy

Spirit when you earn enough Christian points, you know, Oh

well, that person spoke in tongues.

So they earn it. They earned it, right?

Like it's not, that's not it. That's not the way.

The way the whole spirits presence work is a gift from

God. Well, and Peter, you know, going

back to Acts 2, at the end of kind of Peters big sermon, he

says, you know, that people are like, well, what do we do?

And he's like, repent, be baptized, every one of you in

the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and

you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirits.

And and A, it's a gift. B says it seems to coincide when

you when you receive Christ, you receive God's spirits.

Right. Now, as I say that, you know,

without opening a can of theological worms, like a few

chapters later, as they go, as they venture out into Samaria,

they start realizing that there are some believers that have put

their faith in Jesus but didn't know about the Spirit, right.

And like, oh, well, let me tell you about the Holy Spirit, you

know, and then they receive the Holy Spirit, right?

Yeah. I don't know.

And maybe I'll ask you, I I don't know that that is

normative for Christians today. Would you say yes or no?

Oh, that, that, that, that that that timeline.

Of I can receive Jesus and then later receive the spirits.

I, no, I think that you receive the spirit as you receive Jesus

like this is so that, that I think is more we, you know, we

hear stories of people who in, in what it would consider like

closed countries, they use that term cautiously.

I don't know if that's a term that's still used, but in, in

countries, in countries where it's illegal to be a Christian

and where, you know, mission, it's illegal to be a missionary

and there are no public churches and there's no worship

happening. Like we know, obviously we know

that Christians will gather in worship and in houses and

etcetera. But you know, you hear people of

you hear people coming to faith in Jesus who have had 0 0

connection or interaction with any Christian anywhere, right.

Well, Jesus, this guy Jesus showed up to me in a dream.

Yeah. And so I think that kind of

story is closer to like what's happening in Acts is closer to

the story that I just recounted where, you know, I think that if

you profess. So there's there's a verse that

says no one can, no one can declare that Jesus is Lord

except by the power of the Spirit.

So if you've declared that Jesus is Lord, then you, you have

access, you have this, the Holy Spirit with you, alongside you.

This is God's presence for you. And what I would say is maybe

your language needs to change. Maybe we need to rediscover what

it means to relate to the Holy Spirit as a person and not

simply a power. And you know what it looks like

to daily think about God's presence with you.

I think that line from Paul is is a helpful one to me.

Like, hey, like sometimes I just need to remember, hey, remember

your bodies at the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, whether you want it or, like whether you want it to be

or. Not.

So choose a healthy, you know, choose the healthy decision

right options and. Yeah, and I'm, I'm just trying

to think that through because I think that there are people who

I, I know who have been Christians their entire life.

And and then they, they have what I would, you know, maybe

describe as as a spiritual renewal in their life, right?

It happens in churches, it happens in individuals.

And often that is coincided with a, a newer and deeper

understanding of God's spirits, right.

But I think it would, yeah. It would be incorrect to say

that, you know, they didn't have the spirit before and now do.

But now they've they've way better, better understood.

I don't know, I don't mean understood cognitively, but

they've had a, a better openness to the work of the spirit in

their life who is already present and has been present.

Right? Yeah.

And so, yeah, I, I would, yeah. Being thoughtful around our

language so that we're not assuming that someone has, you

know, gone their whole life as a follower of Jesus without ever

encountering the spirits. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, you know, we, we

are, we're certainly, we're Reformed Church in the sense

that we are a church like we are.

We are a child as a church, a child of the Reformation.

I think one of the things that the Reformation did well and

poorly at the same time is prioritized intellectual assent

and understanding knowledge, right?

We, we, yeah, I still have a sermon like teaching moments are

a large part of our worship gatherings.

And so we, we have put a lot of emphasis on the right

understanding of, and I think what we're seeing shift in the

next generation is they're looking less for the right

understanding first and looking more for give me an experience

and, and like an experience of God or an experience of the

church and of community and of what this thing could look like.

And then tell me why, right. As opposed to, you know, I think

we're coming out of an era where emphasis was put on, OK, I will

teach you how to think about the thing and then you'll think

rightly about the thing and then you'll believe the thing.

And I think we're seeing that flip and shift.

So I think a really unique opportunity to just simply say,

OK, God, like what? Like how do you need or want our

language to shift and change around who you are as Holy

Spirit and how you're present and how you're working in the

world and what that means for us and in my life.

I love. So Karl, Bart has this language

around salvation where he says that what Jesus accomplished on

the cross is, and I'm going to paraphrase.

So you know any Bart scholars listening to this?

Not that there are any. You know, I might get this

wrong. The salvation that Jesus

accomplished on the cross is no less true before you know it.

Ohhhhh yeah. So it, it happened.

So he, he, he puts a whole lot of emphasis on the fact that

Jesus work of salvation on the cross, his death and his

resurrection, along with all of his teaching, but his death and

resurrection was a real event inside of human history that

happened. It's not just something that's

true for you. If you believe it, it's true,

period. It has to be an event inside of

history. And so it is no more true after

you believe it. It's no less true before you

believe it. What happens is that you are in

his language. You are woken up into the

reality of it. You, you're, you know you're,

you're awake now and you're alive because you know it and

you believe it and you experience it in a different

way. Doesn't mean that that moment is

any more or less true. What is changing is your

relationship to the the event inside of history.

And I think the spirit is the same.

Yeah, this is where I'm going. Is that for the believer?

And I like, I need to wrestle this out too.

Like I, I'm, I'm, I'm loving the book that I'm working through

because it's like, oh, I, I get these moments.

I'm like, yeah, absolutely. I'm not misunderstood it, but

all my emphasis was over here. I'm like, man, like God's doing

so much more over here. And I'm pointing in different

directions. If you're listening online, not

that there's significant directions, but I think the what

is true is that the Holy Spirit is present and dwelling in and

with the believer. That is true inside of human

history because that's what Scripture points us to.

That's what Jesus talks about and what we need.

What I need is help waking myself up to the reality and the

presence of the Holy Spirit in my life.

That's no or less, no more, no more true, no less true, no more

present, no less present. I need God to wake me up and

show me what that means, not just for my life, but for how I

live it toward others. That's good.

There's a Wesleyan theological tenant and I always like to

bring up my Wesley Wesley and theology when I can prevenient

grace the the idea. And maybe there's an analog in,

in kind of Reformed theology, but like just that, that God's

Spirit has been at work long before you knew it in in our

lives leading up to it is an essential part of of our

soteriology, which is like our method, the way in which we

understand our salvation. And so it just made me think of

that as you were talking, talking that through.

That's really cool. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Long, long before we knew it,

long after we're gone. Yeah, God's Spirit is still

gonna be at work. Yeah, and maybe just a little

pitch before we close out that if you're listening and you're

and you're like still kind of trying to wrestle some of this

out like the Alpha course, which in real time January 2026 will

be starting up they they spend a whole weekend on the the Holy

Spirit and and greater. Understanding of the Holy Spirit

and so that might be a great place for you to plug into, but

other than that, anything else we want to close out?

With No, we hope that you're having a great start to 2026.

Yeah, and we'll see you next time.