The mercy of not knowing: why hiddenness is a gift (Luke 18:31-43)

Hey friend, welcome to another episode of the podcast.

We're grateful to have you joining us for a conversation on

Luke 18. We're wrapping up chapter 18.

So we're talking about Jesus predicting his death, and we're

talking about the last healing in the gospel loop before Jesus

death and resurrection. I don't think I mentioned that

on Sunday. So that's like the last miracle

healing. And that's a good one.

It's a good one and positioned really intentionally.

So we're going to get into all the good things.

But if you were here on Sunday, you watch the sermon.

One of the main things that we want to tackle today is the idea

of things being hidden inside of Scripture and all of what that

means. Because we touched on it a

little bit and didn't sort of have a chance to go deeper into

what that means throughout Scripture.

So I think that's going to govern like the bulk of our

conversation today. But again, we hope that this

helps you well, for in the 1st place, we do help.

Hope that this helps you draw closer to Jesus in your here so

you walk with God. Pray a little bit more, think

these things through for your own self.

Is it challenging? Is it encouraging?

What are you feeling as we're wrestling our way through the

gospel? And then, and I think especially

then to have a conversation with somebody else about it.

So we we really hope that this pushes you toward the

conversation. So we're going to jump in and

we've got some questions and. So, so just to give like a

little bit of a backdrop here. So, so we got these two

different stories that are kind of just contrasting, you know,

very, very clearly contrasting. You have the disciples.

So Jesus predicts his death 1/3 time with the most amount of

specificity that we've seen thus far.

And even like, even there's a little mini contrast even with

that, that like he, he gives the most detail possible.

And the disciples are like, I don't get it, you know, And then

there's this kind of macro contrast between the disciples

who are, who are blind to what Jesus is saying and doing and

then to this literally blind man who sees who Jesus is, right?

Doesn't call him out as Jesus of Nazareth, which is just sort of

a generic, generic term for like, you know, grant of you

said grant of Toronto or Montreal or wherever, right?

Justin of Guelph, Like, like there are lots of Justins in

Guelph and lots of grants in Montreal, like, and, and so like

there he calls him though Jesus, son of David.

You know, there's a messianic, there's a messianic nature to

what he is calling toward Jesus for.

And, and so he gets healed and he is able to see, but he saw

who Jesus was before he could see.

And meanwhile the disciples are struggling to see who Jesus

truly is while they are conceived right.

So like it's, it's poetic in many ways.

It's it's. There's a lot to unpack there,

but there is one in particular, one piece in particular that I

know that when we were, you know, you and Allison and I were

unpacking this passage, we're like, I don't like that.

I don't like that it's and it's been nagging at us.

And you, you alluded to it in the in the sermon, but it says

in verse 34 of Luke 18, it says the disciples did not understand

any of this. That's nothing new.

What is a bit unique is it says it's meaning was hidden from

them and they did not know what he was talking about.

So my mind went to a couple places my mind went to thinking

about, OK, OK, is, is God intentionally doing this or are

they just, are they just dumb dumbs that like just don't get

it? And so it's like just stating a

fact that this, this, the meaning of all this was just

hidden from them because they were too stubborn or whatever,

right? So like, there's the question

there. But also I think there's

another, you know, another thing to explore across the scriptures

about where, where things get hidden or not hidden, right?

So like I, my mind went to Pharaoh in, in, in Exodus,

right? And, and now Pharaoh hardens his

heart and also God hardens his heart, kind of causing him to

act or believe certain things are not right.

And and it's this interesting dynamic that OK, is it, is it,

is it the disciples doing the thing or is it not right?

So launching pad there just to kind of go wherever you, you

feel like. So yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So I think the first, the first

thing that I want to say is there's this really interesting

parallel in the these two stories and and you you

mentioned one of them. So I think this is maybe a

helpful place to start, or at least I find an interesting

place to start. So when, when the disciples are

being described, when Luke writes that the disciples don't

know what's going on. So we see there's kind of these

like 3 fold way of like escalating their lack of

understanding. So the disciples did not

understand any of this one, its meaning was hidden from them too

and they did not know what he was talking about 3 So there's

this like escalation of unknowing even to use a word

that doesn't exist, unknowingness, right?

Like they don't know what's happening, they don't understand

it, they don't see it. And and Luke basically escalates

that 3 * 1 of those times is that it's meaning was hidden

from them. And one of the questions just

naturally comes, well, who does the hiding, right?

Is it just hidden from them as in they can't see it?

Like it's it's they just don't understand it.

And some, a lot of people lean in that direction because of

that threefold escalation, Right.

So Luke says the disciples did not understand any of this.

Well, so that sounds like it's on them.

Yes, it's meaning was hidden from them.

Oh OK, well that may be sounds. Like be on God.

Could be on them, could be on God, a combination of both.

They didn't know what he was talking about.

Kind of sounds like it's back on them.

Yeah, but you get this threefold escalation if you flip over to

the blind beggar who receives a site.

There's also an escalation. And I, I wanna tease this out

because, again, not having enough time to do it on Sunday

sermon was already too long. Had communion it was a longer

service, but you get this this blind man who's sitting at the

gates of Jericho and there's a whole question there about which

Jericho are we at and like it it in the other gospels it's Jesus

is entering Jericho here in the other gospels he's exiting

Jericho. So what's going on?

But there's a whole like, you know, side plot about old

Jericho and new Jericho in Jesus day.

And to get to new Jericho, you had to exit old Jericho.

So you had to go in anyways. So it is very likely just

different descriptions of the same event, right?

In Jesus's day, they talked about old Jericho as Jericho and

new Jericho as Jericho. So is he exiting Jericho or is

he entering Jericho? Yes, very.

So, yeah, more, more exactly more.

But if you continue reading, So blind man, he's sitting there,

he heard the crowds going by. He asks Jesus of Nazareth, they

say, and then he calls out Jesus, son of David.

He calls out a second time, son of David.

And then we get this great. So Jesus stopped and in English

it just skips. He's like he stopped.

He ordered the man to be brought to him.

And when he came near, Jesus asked him, what do you want me

to do for you? But the implication and and like

you kind of put like your nerd hat on here for a second, but in

the Greek is actually this again, escalation of

intentionality in drawing this guy in.

So he calls out Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me.

Jesus stopped and then a truer translation could even say he

stopped and moreover, he told the crowds to bring him to me.

And moreover, when he came near, Jesus asked him.

And then moreover, Jesus said to him, receive your sight.

And so it's this, it's this in my mind like it, it's kind of

serves as this parallel escalation of in many ways,

Jesus drawing this guy in to what he already knows.

He, you know, to use air quotes. He sees Jesus for who he really

is. He's got this spiritual site,

but just like the the the disciples lack of understanding

is escalating through the passage.

This blind man's understanding is escalating through the

passage with Jesus invitation because it's like, moreover, he

stopped and even more he he told them to be brought to him and

even more he said to him, what do you want me to do for you?

So we've got these like it's almost like, you know, I picture

in my mind like in this bad analogy, but like on elevators,

you get 2 elevators side by side and glass tubes and like one

elevator is going down, one elevator is going up at the same

time at the same speed, and they're just headed in different

directions. So you get the disciples who

seem to be falling more and more into this unknowing and this

blind man who is drawn by Jesus into more and more awareness of

who Jesus actually is. So that kind of frames out the

whole thing. Now, the thing that I said on on

Sunday, which might be a helpful place to turn to is that the the

one story is very intentionally positioned here to comment on

the other. So, and again, whether whether

whether you as as a reader of Scripture think that Luke is

doing this intentionally and he's taking two stories that

might not have happened back-to-back and putting them

together, or whether they did happen back-to-back and Luke is

just accounting for them as back to like that doesn't matter.

What matters is that this is what we have and one comments on

the other. So just like the disciples are

kind of descending into their unknowingness and this blind

beggar is ascending into greater awareness and and knowledge of

who God is. That invitation that Jesus gives

that threefold and moreover he draws him in and moreover, he

asks him is serves as as a like a foretaste or a promise to the

disciples of where they will be led.

Yeah. So, so even in their

uncertainty, even in their hiddenness, even in their

unknowing, Jesus immediately gives them this beautiful sign

of what is to come for them, which is that there will be a

day where they fully understand and know the things that are

currently hidden from them. Be it because of their own, you

know, their their own intellect or expectation, which is what we

talked about on on Sunday, their own expectation of Jesus or be

it because of divine hiddenness or like God hiding the thing

from them. So I think a helpful place to

start is not out of this place of like fear.

And, you know, I think it's honest to say, oh, I don't love

that this is here. Like, does God hide this from

them? Yeah, I don't love that.

That's an honest thing to say, but I think it's helpful to

frame the whole, the, the these two stories out as a promise.

This is like foreshadowing what will happen to the disciples so

they're not going to be left in this state forever.

And that just helps, I think, change our conversation around

what hiddenness is in scripture. Before you go down kind of the,

the rabbit hole of the instances of, of what is being hidden, who

is hidden in scripture? What does it mean?

Because it's not morally neutral.

That's the thing. Like when things are hidden in

scripture, it's not morally neutral.

It's not. I mean, it is ambiguous a little

bit sometimes, but it's not the fact that it is saying something

specific about the people and the situation, the context like

that, you know, that is not ambiguous.

When things are hidden, they're hidden for a reason.

They're hidden for a purpose. And so I just hope for for

people not to start at this place of fear like, oh, maybe

stuff hidden from me and will I ever find out?

The word to the disciples in this is very clearly there will

be a day where you do find out. So things won't be hidden from

you in perpetuity or ever to your demise.

It's really, and we're going to get into this, but it's for

their own good. It's for their own, You know,

the way in which we talk about the divine hiddenness is so

often for their own good. In the end, we're just not

there. Yet, Yeah, exactly.

And, and so I think like I think it's helpful way to frame it.

There's still like there's still part of me that doesn't like it,

you know, and then that's just there, there's this part of me

that's like, it doesn't seem fair.

It doesn't seem like why, you know, if, if it is God and I

think that it's still a question if it is God that is doing the

hiding. That feels like, OK, yeah.

Like what else is God hiding from me?

What is what else is God holding out on me for?

I'm like, these are like genuine questions.

I remember, like, I, I went through a phase in my own life

where like I, I had a lot of friends who were like leaning

into like reformed theology and particularly more like, more, I

would say like they were in this like stage of life where it was

like they, they really wanted to be like hardcore, like

Calvinists. And, and if that means nothing

to you, don't worry about it. But like, it was.

And so they really, really leaned into the like themes of,

of predestination and, and limited atonement and things

like that. And again, if that means nothing

to you, you know, maybe, maybe gonna go down a rabbit trail.

It's fun. But I, I had like deep

existential crises about some of these things.

And so my hackles get up when I, when I'm like, oh, like there's

like this part of me and part of that I, I've learned to be OK

with it over the years. I've learned to, I've learned to

like accept some of the mystery of God.

So like, you know what? I'm reading passages like this

when I'm reading passages like say, like Asians one where I'm

reading them and I'm like, OK, I don't know the, the full mind of

God and the full scope of God and why God might hide something

from the disciples, You know, and, and, and there is, there is

something of a mercy, you know, and, and maybe, maybe thing is

something I could compare it to. I don't know if this works or

not, but like, I'm thinking about like, you know, my, my

child as a 10 year old, she's 10.

There are things that I don't tell her that one day I will

tell her, right. There are things about life.

There are things about even like church and theology and the

Bible that like, hey, she's only 10.

Her mind can't hold all these like all the nuance and all of

the tensions and all of the things together, right?

Her brain is not fully developed and won't be for another almost

15 years, you know, like, and so I, I think like the way that I

can come to terms with it is like it's, it's a mercy in some

ways. Yeah.

So I do think that's a helpful way to frame it because like

that we do that all the time and we think that it's OK and good

and even, right? Hmm.

I think that it's also OK to just name the fact that we, we

don't like that God might be hiding something from us because

now it's us. Like it's me who's implicated.

Just like, just like put your, put yourself in your kid's

shoes, Like your kid doesn't like the fact that you, you

know, you, you don't tell them everything.

You know, I think it's hard. We just sometimes we read things

in Scripture and the hardest thing is going, OK, that's

there. I don't like it.

Yeah, but it's there. Uh-huh.

And I've gotta at least find a way to say, OK, it's there.

What is the invitation to me now?

I would encourage people to say like when you're reading

Scripture that that's the best, I think frame of mind that you

can be in is what is the invitation?

What is the invitation? So let's, let's talk through a

lot of the, the reasons or some of the reasons why, OK, Some of

the instances of, of, of things being hidden in Scripture

throughout because like I said, so it's, it's not morally

neutral. It happens all throughout

Scripture. It's an Old Testament and New

Testament phenomenon. There's language for it in, in,

yeah, Hebrew. There's language for it in

Greek. And it starts at the very, very

beginning. So you get Adam and Eve who hide

from God in the garden, so hidden they are attempting to be

hidden from God, which is impossible.

Yeah, but from the very beginning we get this

relationship dynamic of hidden Ness don't eat from the tree.

There is an implied hiddenness there and there is an implied

trust at the beginning. And then the the deceiver comes

in, right. So Satan the accuser comes in

say, did God really say that? Like, did you really say like,

can you really trust and and I think that like not to push too

hard against you not liking that this is in the passage.

We all have things that we don't like in the passage.

Yeah, But I I do feel like that's the it's honest and good

and right to name that we don't like it.

The the wrong step to take then is to say, well, does it really

say it though? Does it really say the thing

that I don't like? Yeah, it does.

It still does. Even if we don't like it, it

still says the thing. And like, sometimes there could

be, you know, like nuanced translations that like, you

know, leave certain things open to interpretation.

I don't get that impression here.

Though no, no, I don't. I don't.

I don't think so either, but I just think it's helpful also to

name that this is this, this challenge, this wrestling starts

at the very beginning. And so from the very beginning,

human beings have to wrestle out their relationship with God,

which if you take it at face value, is an unequal

relationship. The creator creation, right?

God and humanity are not, we're not equal.

And so I do think that your child parent analogy is just a

really simple, helpful way to think about that They, you know,

you are not it. It is not a relationship of

equals. Yeah, when you are taking care

of your kid and making sure they're staying.

Alive. Sometimes they try to make it

Yep, but it's. So, so we see from the very

beginning Adam and Eve. We see it in Israel's spiritual

blindness. So in in passages like Isaiah 9

or 69, I think it is, or Isaiah 69, which is hearing, you will

hear and not understand. Hmm.

So again, like this implied hiddenness that you will, you

will not understand. There's also the religious

leaders that Jesus talks to in the New Testament who

continually don't understand and recognize what Jesus is saying

and the implication for them. You know, and I think about his

constant battles with the Pharisees about the right

reading of law and application of law and Jesus saying things

like you have what it said, but I say to you, So he, he has this

constant sort of undertone of, of conflict with the, the

religious leaders running through.

So some of the reasons why, though things are hidden.

And I wrote a few down just to be helpful, which I very rarely

do for podcast episodes but trying to be organized.

Here. So one divine initiative like so

these are the places in Scripture where God is doing the

hiding of the thing. So this is hidden.

Revelation this is moments, you know in in some ways like what

we've just seen in Luke where the disciples 3 times in a row

Jesus has said to them this is what is going to happen and they

they it's hidden from them. They don't understand but one of

the key verses here is Matthew in Matthew 1125.

So the, the idea being that there are occasions where God

and, and this is Jesus is speaking in a way that hides

things from human beings to cultivate humility in the human

being and as an, an acknowledgement of divine

sovereignty. So again, it's, it's we're

establishing a relationship that is unequal.

So this is, this is God's sovereignty.

This is divine sovereignty and human humility, our humility.

So in Matthew 11, you've hidden these things from the wise and

learned and revealed them to little children.

So we talk about this with parables all the time, that

Jesus spoke in a way that was, I use this word carefully, but

like cryptic, like parables are not straightforward teaching.

They are meant to communicate truths when the listener leans

in and actively participates and works at understanding like

Jesus teaches. And his desire is that you lean

in and that you want to participate in the thing.

And if you don't, well then you know you're probably not going

to understand what he's saying. So there's divine initiative

there, Like there's there's initiative on God's side, on

Jesus side with the way he's teaching.

But I think you also have to acknowledge that there's human

response to that divine initiative.

It's not just that I got hidden that for me.

And I guess I'm one of the ones that's hidden from because I

don't know what he's talking about.

No, he's, he's inviting you to lean in and to, to want to learn

and grow and be challenged and find this place of humility,

which says I I need to learn and grow and be challenged.

So Jesus does this all the way through it.

So and and again, it's it's in one of Jesus prayers, I think.

So Jesus said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and

earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and

Lord and revealed them to little children.

God veils, Kingdom mysteries, Kingdom realities.

I, I do think that there's this invitation to lean in and from a

place of humility or a starting place, I guess of humility.

Be ready for God. Do some work changing your heart

and your mind. That doesn't happen if you start

from a place of certainty where you know everything that that

God has said, or everything that the scriptures contain or

everything that you think is correct.

There's no, there's no transformation that's gonna

happen from a place of certainty.

Reminds me of just I just put up the first screen, the ends one

where where Paul's kind of tracking with a similar idea

where he's like for the message of the cross is foolishness to

those who are perishing. So they're not going to get it.

They're not going to understand it.

The the meaning is obscured from them.

But to those of us are being saved who have humbled

themselves before God, it is written, I will destroy the

wisdom of the wise, the intelligence of the

intelligence. Little frustrated.

Like there's, there's. You see that even there?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So the other reverse that I had written down is Colossians,

Colossians 126. And that just says has a

beginning. So the mystery that that that

has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now

disclosed to the Lord's people, right?

You also get Matthew 1335. And I know that we're jumping

around here, so apologies, but in Matthew 1335 says so was

fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet.

I will open my mouth in parables.

I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.

So there's this desire, I think that for followers of Jesus, for

people, for humanity to understand or to at least grasp

eventually, the idea that our understanding, our

transformation that happens, our knowledge, the things that we

have received, we've learned from Jesus rests on, on grace

and love and mercy and kindness, not on aptitude or intellect.

It's not about just figuring out the mystery.

So, so the, the, the Christian life is not, and this is not in

my notes, so this could go sideways, but so the Christian

life is not. Have you ever done one of these?

Like was it like lock rooms, escape rooms, escape rooms?

I have not. My daughter did one.

For the whole idea, yeah. It's terrifying.

Locked in A room and there's a whole bunch of clues and if you

string together the right clues in the right way, then you can

escape from the escape room. Yeah.

And you you get the key Eventually you get the key at

least this is what I've heard I don't know anybody else have

anybody done. Yeah, OK.

A couple of people have done escape rooms.

This is a thing. And like that, that.

So I think that our, our default is to think, oh, if God's hidden

something from us, it's kind of like an escape room.

It's a divine escape room where we have to work to like solve

the mystery and prove that we're smart enough.

This is why, like, I don't want to go to escape room.

I don't want to confront the fact that I'm an idiot and I

can't get my way out. Like I can't find the, the key.

Like I, I just don't want to do it.

So, so we have this baseline assumption that when things are

hidden, like, OK, I need to, I need to work and prove my

intellect and aptitude in order to uncover the mystery and

escape the escape room. That is, you know, this

Christian life, things are hidden to I, I, I believe, and I

think scripture is clear to to do the exact opposite, which is

to show that it's all grace. All of it rests on grace and the

moment, like so just wants you to lean in and to be an active

participant in understanding the parable.

What does that look like? It looks like humility.

It looks like confronting the things inside of yourself.

It doesn't look like an escape room where you're like, OK, we

solved this clue. Now we solved this clue.

Now we solved this clue. And then suddenly, like Bing,

like the key is gonna pop out of a wall or from behind a painting

and away you go. So.

So things are hidden. Divine initiative, hidden

revelation is is meant to point us toward grace and what Jesus

is doing. So that's number one #2 second

reason is human blindness. And this I think is we see a

mixture of in the disciples. So this is what we've talked

about, which is that the the disciples don't get it.

And if it if it just said that it was hidden from them, period.

That'd be more difficult. That'd be more that that would

be, you know, I think we'd be tipping one right, divine

initiative only. But the fact that that Luke says

the disciples did not understand any of this, then it's its

meaning was hidden from them. They did not know what he was

talking about. I think to me implies that there

are multiple things going on here.

And so we do see this, that when like when people reject Jesus

and reject what he is saying, that leads to further hiddenness

and further concealment, or at least further like unknowing for

the confusion. So again, I, I do think that

we've got to see this in the disciples.

So three times the disciples are told of the cross and its

message, it's understanding was hidden from them.

Now I think it's hidden from them because they don't want to

accept what Jesus is saying. They do not want to accept that

Jesus has to go and die and that everything they've thought about

who the Messiah would be is wrong.

So they're not willing to confront that in themselves has

less to do with what Jesus is saying and more to do with

what's going on in their own mind and their own heart.

They're just, they're on the feelings, you know, they're just

kind of stuck there. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, now, now what Some of what some commentators and some

writers wonder in this, and I like it, is that in in part, the

hiddenness is a grace to the disciples because they don't

want to accept that Jesus has to die, right?

So, so Peter says it, right? Like, surely not.

He's like, you will never do this.

And what does Jesus respond to him?

Get behind me, Satan. So like that's a that's a harsh

line. It is.

It is a grace because if they fully understood, if it was not

hidden from them and they refuse to follow Jesus to that point,

like that's a very different story.

Hmm, and. So like an anxious mess, all of

them like. Yeah, at, at, at.

Best. Yeah, So the hiddenness, and I

hope this is tracking for people.

The hiddenness serves as a grace to the disciples because it

delays accountability. They can.

They're still wrestling it out. They're still like, we don't, we

don't like this, we don't want it.

This is not going to happen and the final word that Jesus speaks

to Peter does not Get behind me, Satan.

It's go feed my sheep. Hmm.

So it allows for the disciples to be prepared for what is

really true and going to happen without the necessity of

judgment or accountability in the moment.

They can wrestle out their doubt.

And that's why I love so the the quote that I started with on

Sunday was that in order to be a person of faith, you have to

become a person of doubt or you have to wrestle with doubt.

Is is such a beautiful thing because in in some ways the

hiddenness allows you the space for doubt and the mystery allows

you the space for doubt. And it's doubt without judgment,

or at very least it's doubt without judgment toward

condemnation. It allows for grace and it

allows for mercy, and it delays accountability so that you can

wrestle it out on the way with Jesus as you follow him to

Jerusalem. And it allows for more time for

God to transform your life, your heart and your mind and for you

to respond. O it's like a Divine Mercy that

that things might also be hidden.

OK, The last thing I want to say because we I could go on.

I could go on for a long time with.

All of this. Jesus himself represents this

hiddenness, this like paradoxical hiddenness, because

all through his ministry and all through his life, people are

trying to figure out who he is. So he's got this great

interaction with the disciples where they're walking by well

there. So they're walking by this this

it's actually a spring. So where water would come where

where drinking water would well up out of the ground and where

people for generations came to gather drinking water.

And so as you would assume, many different people, many different

communities would gather, would find their literally the source

of life water, drink it, and then build these idols and icons

to gods. They they build altars, they

carve out images of various gods.

And so it Cesaria Philippi is the location of this place.

And so Jesus is walking with disciples and he asked them this

question, who do you, who do people say that I am?

And you know, some of us think they go, well, some say you're,

you know, some say you're Elijah.

Some say, you know, profit and, and, and just double s down.

He says, well, who do you say that I am?

And they say you are the Messiah.

And it's this, it's this process of gradual, like revelation.

The disciples eventually get to a place where they name him as

Messiah. Now it's still their

expectations are sideways, Yes, but the disciples don't begin

like when Jesus calls them. They don't, hey, that's the

Messiah we're going to follow. I think he's a rabbi.

And so they do, they follow him and eventually they they figure

it out. But the whole of like the whole

of the area and people were everybody's trying to figure out

who Jesus is. You see it all the way through

to Jesus trials where you know, like some say, you know, you're

you're the king of the Jews and like, who are you gonna say that

you are? And she has remained silent,

keeps it hidden. But him, he himself is this

paradox of speaking very boldly about what is to come while also

remaining somewhat of a mystery to people.

People don't know. And intentionally.

Intentionally, yeah. Because that's the question that

every single one of us has to wrestle with, which is who is

Jesus? Who is Jesus?

Because that changes my life and that changes your life.

And listener, that changes your life when you wrestle out the

question. I think every human being that

has ever existed and will ever exist needs to reckon with that

question, Who is Jesus? Because if he is who he says he

is, then it's game on. And if he isn't, then none of it

matters. And you, listener, me, we all

need to be confronted with that question.

And I think that's in part that happens when it is this gradual

revelation through Scripture of Jesus and this gradual unfolding

of, you know, not. I would say that not from full

mystery to full certainty, but from mystery to certain.

Like along that trajectory of being able to declare who Jesus

is. I think that every single person

needs to answer that question. Who do you say that I am?

So Chris, like Christological implications as well.

We see it all the way through that there's this back and forth

of hiddenness and understanding, not knowing, discovering, being

known. And that's what Paul Lutes do

when he says, listen, now I I know partially, but then I will

know fully as I am fully known. And it's this great promise of

of what is to come. And yeah, and there are things

that we even today and like looking at the the full Canon of

scripture and have, you know, like theologians have not

finished plumbing the depths of, of all that is there.

And, and even even if they did, it still would not, you know,

contain the totality of of all that we could possibly know

about God and the universe and Jesus.

And those are questions we'll have, hopefully, you know, some

good conversations with God in heaven.

Yeah, absolutely. I had, I had lots of other

thoughts and questions, but it felt like that was like the

right place to, you know, to end and the, the grappling with who

Jesus is. And, and so we hope that whether

you've been a follower of Jesus for decades or whether this is

newer for you, that we are still in the process of asking those

questions, who is Jesus and living out the implications of

that answer. So good place to end.

Yep. Have a great week.

We hope you'll join us next week as we get into a little bit of a

fun story about Zacchaeus, a little bit of a Sunday school

story that you often hear, but we're going to hopefully go a

little deeper than Sunday school.

Have a great week.