Sermon
Depression | Holly Whatley
Publisher transcript
Transcript
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Well, good morning Crossing Church.
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How are you doing today? Oh, you're doing better than
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that? Good morning Christ.
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The church. How you doing today?
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Way to go with? So good to be in the house of
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the Lord, with the people of the Lord, learning from the word of
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the Lord, and allowing the Holy Spirit to work richly and
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powerfully in each one of us. And then we get to project that
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out into a world that so desperately needs that intimate
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personal relationship. Ship with Jesus Christ.
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I want to welcome all of our campuses joining today from all
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over this region of your Insider online.
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We are so thankful for each and every one of you and today I
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want to share the sermon time with Holly Whatley.
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I've no ye men. I've known Holly since my very
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first weekend at the Crossing back.
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When we were pacing Road Christian Church, she was there
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that first weekend and she has been involved.
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Evolved with some of the most critical ministries of this
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church for years. She was my personal assistant,
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she was a critical player in the stablishment of our worship
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teams. She used to run the finances for
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the whole church. When we decided to go
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multi-site, she was part of the launch Team for our Macomb
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campus at church location. Shout out to Macomb and while
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she was up there, she finished her bachelor's degree.
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Lincoln Christian University and then she stepped away from our
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staff for a time to lead the well house ministry here in
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Quincy, awesome Ministry that we do and what we share in.
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And after a time there, she went back on staff at our 929
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location. Shout out to 929, And then later
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transition to manage discipleship and women's
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Ministries here at the 4th Street campus.
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She also helped develop and Lead our rise conference as well.
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Can I get a shoutout for Rise coming up?
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And after that, she went back to pursue to school to pursue a
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graduate degree in counseling. And after graduation, she went
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to work in counseling services in Hannibal.
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Shout out to Hannibal. You're lucky to have her out
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over there. She has run a marathon.
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She has been commissioned to ministry here at the Crossing.
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She's Champion. The ministry of Rafa house,
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Mission our missions. Team, she's been a leader at
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Region and she is Close personal friend of Allison and myself.
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And we have a very deep respect for her.
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The reason I want you to hear from her today is because she
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has professional expertise in the understanding and the
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treatment of depression. And she couples that with her
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love for Jesus and her Devotion to the ministry at the Crossing.
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So I want you to give the very best most powerful Crossing.
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Welcome to Holly, walley's she comes up on This day.
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Thank you. Well thank you obviously Jerry
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for such a warm welcome and thank you all so much.
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It's such a honor to be here. I cannot begin to tell you how
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much I love this church. I have been here my entire adult
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life at this church. I have grown and discovered a
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deeper love and knowledge of Jesus.
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I have found love and acceptance and healing.
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I have been challenged. I've been encouraged I have
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loved my opportunity to be on staff here at the Crossing it
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has literally been the honor of my life and this transition into
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mental health and into therapy was something that I never
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expected. Like so many of you I was doing
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my normal quiet, time one morning, sitting down reading my
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Bible spending time with the Lord listening for his voice,
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and the Holy Spirit just impressed on my heart.
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So deeply to go back to school. And as I began to near the end
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of my degree just so many things kept lining up that it looked
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like I was going to be making this transition and it's been an
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incredible Ministry to sit in front and across from clients
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its Sacred Space to hear people's struggles to hear their
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stories to hear their sufferings, but also to hear
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their wins and their Joys and their successes and I'm so
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grateful for the opportunity that God has given me in this
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season of History as well my unofficial title or how I
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affectionately refer to myself at my current position is
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world's oldest intern. Yes, thank you for that
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Applause. My co-workers assure me that
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there's no way that could be possible but no one has yet to
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produce an intern older than me. So until that happens.
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I'm just going to wear that mount will proudly.
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So if you're a person who can't seem to quit, White find your
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career path. As you heard Jerry say I think
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he's listed at least 12 that I've done in my current life.
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Let's talk because I can relate. So you Dairy approached me with
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this idea of speaking, it is part of the series on Mental
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Health about depression. Yay.
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Right fun. Everyone's favorite topic but
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what's interesting is I think depression is something that we
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Are very familiar with, so anxiety, and anxiety, and
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depression are two. We've been discussing them, you
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know, as mental illnesses, or mental health challenges, that
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are the most common, we experienced by people and even
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among our own church family, you know, we've been talking a lot
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about this mental health, survey, and so many of you
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responded and we'll talk more about that.
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But depression is something that is not always very well
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understood. Stood, we're not always sure
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like when we say depression, like what does that even mean,
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right? So imagine this.
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So imagine you guys are a couple of you guys who are having a
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conversation, like say a couple of you guys are like standing
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around the grill. That's something that guys do,
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right? I don't know men.
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Yeah. Okay.
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Yes. I see a couple of knobs.
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Thank you. Okay.
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So you guys are standing around the grill and you're having a
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conversation with a buddy and your friend says this.
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Hey, so How are things going and you say, oh well, you know, I
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don't know. Like I've been just feeling
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really run down lately. Oh, really?
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Yeah, just been feeling like really tired.
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I'm not really sleeping. Well, have trouble falling
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asleep. And I have trouble staying
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asleep and your friends. Like, oh man, I'm sorry to hear
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that. Like, well, how's work going?
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And your friend says, oh well, Yeah, I mean it's going good but
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you know usually what would happen is I would get a project
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and I would get my team together and start assigning tasks and
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I'll get my spreadsheet out, you know.
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But it just seems like every time I try to tackle it it's
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like my brains kind of fuzzy and I just can't quite seem to get
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my ducks in a row like okay. Well, alright, how are things at
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home? Well, you know, like it's been
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good like we've been busy, the kids have been busy now but Just
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seems like I'm just always in a really bad mood, I just can't
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quite seem to get out of it. And so, that's been really hard.
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Okay. Well, what about that car?
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You know, you've been working on.
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How's that going? Well, I got really far in the
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did a certain point. I just like I just didn't really
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feel like working on it anymore and so you might say to her
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friend like hey man, like I actually think you might be
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depressed and your friends like oh no.
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Like No, I'm just in a funk like II know things will get better.
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Work will slow down. You know, the kids are just
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really busy right now but we don't always realize is that
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some of the things that we experience in our lives are the
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things that we might classify as being in a funk could actually
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be symptoms of depression. So symptoms of depression are
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these so you might be feeling down depressed irritable or
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hopeless. You might have a diminished
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pleasure in activities that you used to really enjoy.
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You might have a significant change in appetite.
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You might be really more hungry than usual or you might not feel
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hungry at all. Or wait.
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You might have extreme fatigue or loss of energy.
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You might have a diminished ability to think.
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Clearly evaluate our concentrate, you may feel like a
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failure or like you have let yourself or others down.
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You might have movements that are slower than normal, or you
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may Movements that are more agitated than normal.
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You might be getting too little sleep, you're having trouble
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falling asleep or having trouble slang, staying asleep, or you
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may have the exact opposite where all you want to do is
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sleep. You may also have suicidal
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thoughts or start to make plans or even attempt suicide.
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And again, like I said, depression is something that
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affects so many people. If you have these symptoms for
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two or more weeks, you may have what could be diagnosis,
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clinical depression. And it's something that affects
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a lot of people. We asked you to participate in
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our mental health survey. And so many people responded to
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that survey. And we're so thankful and
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appreciative of you, sharing your thoughts and experiences.
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And of those who responded to that survey fifty percent of
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women who responded. Depression and forty percent of
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The Men Who responded experience depression.
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So even among our own church family, there are a significant
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number of us who either have or are currently experiencing
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depression. And not only that, when we look
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in the pages of scripture, we can begin to see.
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So many people who also have experienced these circumstances
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or these symptoms are qualities that we see with depression in.
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Just like in real life where I would never presume to diagnose
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someone based on a conversation or a journal entry.
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I'm not 100% certain that this is the case for these people,
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but we can begin to recognize some of these qualities that
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match some of the qualities that we are familiar with and one of
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those is the psalmist in Psalm 42.
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So let's look at Psalm 42 verse 5.
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Why my soul are you downcast why so Disturbed?
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Within me, put your hope in God. For I will yet, Praise Him My
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Savior and my God and I can only imagine what some of you might
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be thinking world's shortest. Sermon, right?
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Why are you so sad? Put your hope in God great let's
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go get nachos, right? No actually no sorry to
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disappoint you but for others of you you Maybe on the exact
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opposite end of the spectrum. For those of you who either have
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or currently experience depression, you may think great
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one more message where I think what is wrong with me.
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Why am I so sad? Why can't I put my trust in God?
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And so right now I want to speak to all of us at all of our
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locations, who care for someone or love someone with depression.
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We've been referencing this word a lot throughout this sermon
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series. It's the word validation.
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Word, validation simply means acknowledging the thoughts
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feelings and experiences of another person and it sounds
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like this. Hey, that sounds really hard or
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I can imagine that. That really hurt it's being
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willing to see through the lens of another person and so often,
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when we love someone in our life who is struggling, our
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intentions are so good. And so well-meaning, we want
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them to think differently, we want them.
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Um, to feel differently, but in that Zeal, or that desire, or
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those good intentions, we can end up using scripture, not so
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much as an encouragement, but sometimes it can feel like
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almost like a weapon to the people in our Lives who we love
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who are having those experiences.
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So, here's what I want. All of us at all of our
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locations to do. I want us to take a collective
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deep breath. Okay, so let's take a deep
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breath in. And let's take a deep breath
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out. And this is the posture that I
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want us to enter into those conversations with because the
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people in our Lives who we love so much, they are not problems
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to be fixed. They are people to be loved.
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And so often our presence, our compassion, our kindness our
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prayers, our encouragement. Hey, even our funny memes that
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we send them throughout the course of a day.
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That can mean so much Two more two people we love who are
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experiencing depression, been any right answer ever could.
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Because more often than not, there really is no right answer.
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So with this, we're going to shift back to our psalmist in
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Psalm 42 and we're going to look at what he asks in verse 5.
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Why is my soul? So downcast the way I often
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explain it to my clients is that depression can Feel kind of like
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a soup and I know what you're thinking, oh this is the kind of
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expert advice that I really came here for right?
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Yeah yep, you're welcome. Okay, so the reason I say that
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depression can be kind of like a soup is that with a soup?
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Some of the basic components are the same but the exact
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ingredients can be different depending on each type, right?
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And depression can kind of be like that we're for each person.
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The basic components can be kind of the same.
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But the exact ingredients for each person can be a little
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different and they can contribute to the continuation
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of a person's depression because depression is a syndrome that is
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comprised comprised of mood dysregulation.
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It can be resulting from events. It's a it's a combination of
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feelings and behaviors and the combination of these things,
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depends on the individual person and the root of each two persons
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depression. Can be different as well.
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This is where if you have been having these symptoms for a
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continued amount of time working with a medical professional and
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a clinical professional can be a huge ATU of figuring out.
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What are the components of your exact experience and what are
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the tools and the resources that you need to meet you where you
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are to help you along the way with your particular set of
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symptoms? So while we'll be talking about
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Out some of the components of depression in our time together.
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Today these may not be the case for you because they may not be
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your particular type of soup, I guess.
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But what we will be doing is looking at depression through
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the lens of the four buckets that we've been looking through
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all along through this mental health series and the first
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bucket is the chemical bucket or the biological bucket.
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So genetics can make us very vulnerable to depression.
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For example, if you have a family history of depression you
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are much more likely to experience it yourself.
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Also if you have we call a concurring diagnosis like
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bipolar disorder. You can also be much more
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susceptible to developing depression.
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There can also be other mitigating circumstances like a
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change in hormones. So for example after you have a
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baby or as you get older That those those hormonal changes can
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precipitate depression. It can be a side effect of
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certain medications and there are also even neurotransmitter
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changes that happen when we are depressed.
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So let's look at Psalm 42, verses 1 through 3 As the deer
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pants for streams of water. So my soul pants for you, my
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God, my soul thirsts for God for the Living God, when can I go
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and meet with God? My tears have been my food all
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day and night. While people say, to me all day
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long. Where is your god in Old
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Testament times? God's presence was focused in
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the temple. And the psalm is here is writing
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on the road. He is removed from God's
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presence. And he, he says, my tears say to
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me. Where is your god?
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And so it can feel like that when we are in a season of
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depression it's like okay, wherever God is I'm somewhere
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else and our soul can feel so dry and we can feel so
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desperate. We no longer sense his presence
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and he could feel so distant. And this can contribute to the
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symptoms that we can experience. We can feel like we like the
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psalmist we can have prolong times where we have trouble
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managing our emotional effect for some.
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Us. We do feel like exactly like the
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psalmist said. We're literally, we have no
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appetite and our tears are all. We eat on all day long, so those
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can be some of the biological components of depression.
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Depression can also be situational.
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One of the other buckets we've been looking at throughout this
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sermon series. Let's look at Psalm 42 verse for
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these things. I remember as I pour out my
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soul, how I used to To go to the house of God, under the
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protection of the mighty one, with shouts of joy and praise
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among the festive. Throng.
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The psalmist is looking back on a time in his life, in which he
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was flourishing, he was worshipping God in the temple,
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he had purpose, he had Community, he was close to God
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and others. And now that season is gone in a
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sense of loss can often A season of depression.
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Whether that's the death of a loved one, the loss of a
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relationship, the loss of a job, even the loss of a promotion or
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something. We perceived as the support in
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our life, and so often depression, can be perpetuated
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by the failure, to truly grieve these losses, we try to push
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away the emotional pain, we busy ourselves or try to keep our
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minds occupied. But grieving It is simply the
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process of acknowledging reality.
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It's being willing to say, hey, I am hurting I am in pain.
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I miss this person. I miss this season of Life,
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maybe you're grieving or morning us an experience of life that
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you've never even got to experience in the first place.
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Mourn. That loss, David Kessler, who is
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an expert. And grieving and mourning says
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it this way, grief Demands a witness for.
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So many of us, we try to stuffer or struggle alone, but we have
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to be willing to share with the people who love us so much.
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I am hurting. I am in pain.
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I am grieving Depression can also be clinical and for the
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most part during this series, we've been kind of skipping over
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this section, right? It's like, oh, the buckets and
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clinical and then Moving on. But for this series, I'm like,
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Hey, we're going to hang on to this for a little bit because
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this is kind of my jam, right? And it's interesting because
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when I very first transitioned into full-time therapy, I got
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this question a lot. Well, are you going to be a
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Christian? Therapist.
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And I totally get the questioning or the thought
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behind that question, like, oh, where you going to be rooted in
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the word of God? You know, are you going to be
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pointing people to Jesus? Are you going to be trusting in
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the holy spirit to guide you in your counsel?
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Like, oh, absolutely, yes, yes, yes, yes.
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And yes. But the interesting thing is
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that the more I learned about counseling, theories, or about
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how our brain and body is wired or about the things that help us
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grow or the things that help us when we're stuck.
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Tuck or the things that can get us stuck.
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I was like, oh wait like the Bible says that oh yeah, the
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Bible says that too. Yep, the Bible says that too.
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So they didn't quite seem as opposed to one another as some
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people might actually think. So, an interesting example of
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that is found exactly in the scripture that we are in today,
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it's in Psalm 42:5. So again, the psalmist asks, why
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why Is my soul so downcast. Why is my soul so Disturbed
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within me and what we may not realize is why is actually a
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superpower? The psalmist is actually
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teaching us a brain hack. So can you guys hang with me and
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nerd out with me for just like 30 seconds?
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Yeah, okay. Thank you.
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Thank you. I see.
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I see thank you. I see those nods.
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Ok, so in our brains is our amygdala.
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So our amygdala regulates our emotions and often our amygdala
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can kind of get become dysregulated.
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It gets triggered and triggered, and triggered and triggered.
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When we're having mood dysregulation, when we're
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experiencing big emotion, after big emotion after big emotion
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after big emotion. So what happens is there's two
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ways that our amygdala gets trigger and you may have heard
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this before it, you can experience fight or flight where
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your amygdala gets really agitated or you Experience
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freeze or faint, sometimes it's called where your amygdala and
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your body and your brain, kind of like shut down.
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So those are kind of the two experiences that we have.
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Well, here's the amazing thing. When the psalmist says, why is
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my soul so downcast? Why is my soul so?
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Disturbed within me, the word downcast literally means in the
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Hebrew like brought low. Just exactly what happens when
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our amygdala gets triggered. Some Times and the word
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Disturbed, literally means it's like the Roaring of waves.
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It's like thundering and crashing and it's exactly what
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happens when our amygdala gets triggered, we get agitated.
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So the psalmist is describing exactly what happens to us,
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exactly what can be our emotional experience.
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But here's the amazing part, there's one part of our thinking
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brain, normally our thinking brain has no effect on our
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emotional brain. Except for this one part and it
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is the noticing part. So the more we become curious
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about our thoughts, the more we become curious about our
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emotional experiences, the more we ask, why am I feeling so
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angry in this moment, why am I feeling so agitated in this
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moment? Why am I feeling?
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So sad right now, it actually calms our amygdala.
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So it calms this emotional experience that were Having it's
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actually a fancy word called metacognition.
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We separate ourselves from the emotional experience to notice
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the thoughts or emotions. And so often depression, is the
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result of repressing. Our emotions or just a lack of
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acknowledgement of like, what is going on inside of us.
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It made feel too scary to acknowledge it or to face.
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What is going on inside of us. That could be for a variety of
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reasons, maybe it's Trauma from our past that feels very scary
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to address and that is very understandable.
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It could be difficult or painful emotions like fear anxiety or
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jealousy or more often than not shame or guilt and we don't even
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want to go there. So we just yell at our kids or
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we binge another episode of Netflix or we finish off another
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sleep of Girl Scout cookies. Or we utilize drugs or alcohol
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or sex to try to regulate what is happening to us, emotionally.
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But the more we utilize this process of noticing the more,
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our amygdala becomes less reactive and it calms down this
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emotional experience and helps us to get to the root.
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You see, the psalmist was morning a season in his life, in
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which he was really flourishing and transitioning to a season in
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which he was not later on. In Psalm 42, we read that he was
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oppressed. But he was feeling forgotten by
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God and it's very often in these times of difficulty that we can
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really do the hard work of getting to the root.
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The why regeneration is an incredible Ministry at our
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church? I am a proud regeneration
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graduate. I love this ministry and
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regeneration is a Biblical discipleship 12-step Ministry
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and as part of those Twelve steps we do the fourth step and
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it can be kind of known as the dreaded fourth step.
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If, you know, you know, because the fourth step is we go through
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the process of cultivating or conducting a Fearless moral
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inventory. We list out all of our fears, we
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list out all of our resentments, all of the harms done to us, all
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of the harms that we ourselves have done to other people and
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it's all The effort of getting to the root.
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What did our response value? What are we placing on the
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throne of our hearts? Other than God is it pride?
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Is it control? Is it a sense of security is it
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self protection? Is it relationships?
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What is at the root of my experience?
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And where am I failing to put God on the throne and trust, God
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first in my life. So as we continue on this
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spiritual bucket we're going to go back to Psalm. 42:5 why my
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soul? Are you downcast why?
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So Disturbed within me, put your hope in God for I will yet
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Praise Him My Savior and my God. So now we're going to focus on
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the very last section of this verse 4.
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I will yet. Praise Him My Savior and my God.
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So in the Hebrew verse 5 actually reads, more closely,
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praise God, for the help of his presence.
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We as human beings are co-regulators, any of you who
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are parents at any of our locations, you understand this.
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So imagine this with me, your baby is crying.
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Crying. Okay, and imagine like the
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heaving sobbing top of the lungs just like, you know, where the
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face is, just like beet red, everything they've got crying.
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Okay, so you go in and you pick them up and you hold them close,
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and you're like, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay.
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Well, what begins to happen, right?
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You feel their body begin to relax.
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You feel them. Begin to take, breaths that arm.
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Much more deep, you feel the shaking begin to calm and you
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feel the tears? Begin to dry up because that's
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what happens when we co regulate with each other.
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And that process continues throughout the course of Our
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Lives. We teach each other how to
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regulate and manage our emotions And God's relationship with us
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is no different. God's presence is with us when
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we have these big feelings when these thoughts overwhelm us,
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God's presence is with us to calm us to hold us.
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When we are struggling with our mood, our thinking and our loss.
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Psalm 42, 6A says this, my soul is Cast Within Me.
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Therefore, I will remember you, you see, when we are depressed,
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we have a mental filter and that mental filter is a negative
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mental filter. We will think that we are
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failing. We will think that everything is
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going wrong. We will convince ourselves that
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there is no hope. And that is naturally, that is
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connected. With depression.
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And the psalmist says, okay, I realize that this is my
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experience. My soul is downcast.
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What did we say? That was my soul is down low.
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My soul is depressed Within Me. Therefore, so he's saying I know
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that I am depressed. I know that I have this mental
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filter. Therefore, I will remember you
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when we have this mental We have to remember God, if he's in 617
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says this. We have the full armor of God.
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And particularly verse 17 says, take the helmet of salvation and
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the sword of the spirit which is the word of God.
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So the helmet of salvation protects our minds and think
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about it for a minute. What is salvation Salvation is
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the knowledge that we have been rescued by God.
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It is the knowledge that all of our sin and failure and mistakes
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have been covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.
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It is the knowledge that there is absolutely no condemnation.
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For those who are in Christ Jesus, it is the knowledge that
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there is absolutely nothing in heaven on Earth that can
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separate us from the love of God.
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That is ours in Christ Jesus. So the helmet of salvation
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protects Our minds and reminds us of who we are and whose we
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are and not only that we have the sword of the spirit, the
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word of God. It was never meant to be used as
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a weapon against us. It was always meant to be used
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as a weapon against the enemy of our souls.
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Psalm 42 verses 7 and 8 says this deep calls to deep in the
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Roar of your waterfalls, all your waves and break.
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Have swept Over Me by day the Lord directs his love at night,
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his song is with me a prayer to the god of my life.
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We talked about that when my soul is distressed, it feels
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like the Roaring waves, right? Our thoughts are all over the
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place. Those emotions.
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Hit us like waves, but the psalmist is comparing God's love
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his voice. To those same waves, which means
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that When those thoughts and those feelings are so loud God's
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voice in his love is louder and that he is directing and
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commanding his love towards us. He is very much in the battle
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with us. So when the thoughts are loud,
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his voice is louder. And when we're awake and cannot
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sleep, at says, his song is with us.
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So what does that mean? For those of us at all of our
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locations, who are in a season of depression, it means that we
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will take steps of faith. And for some of us a step of
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Faith, literally might mean getting out of bed and taking a
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shower. But as we take that step of
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faith, we know, God is directing his love towards us, right?
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So that means that every Every step of the way, God is saying
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I'm here. I'm here, you're doing it,
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you're doing it. He is directing his love towards
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us and when those thoughts and those feelings get so loud.
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We will remember that. God's voice is so much louder
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and we will protect our minds with the helmet of salvation.
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Remembering that we are loved and chosen.
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By God, that we were covered in Christ blood. and when we are
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awake in the middle of the night again and again and again, We
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will allow him to sing over us. And we will rest in his love for
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us. The psalmist says yet.
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I will praise him. It's a, pretty powerful word,
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right? Especially when our symptoms are
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so significant when we're feeling so tired.
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When those emotional waves, hit us over and over and over again,
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when those thoughts Pierce so deeply Yes, no matter what?
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No matter what I experience, no matter what each day brings yet.
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The psalmist says yet. I will praise him.
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Why? Because he is with me.
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We're moving to a time of decision.
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I'm in. I'm in an interesting spot
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because I've said to you before that, I've had people come up to
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me and say it's like, you're reading my mail.
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It's like you're going through my trash or hiding in my closet.
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I kind of feel like that happened to me today.
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That I don't know how what Holly shared with you is affecting
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you? I have no idea but I know how
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it's affecting me and and how I look at my own life.
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And I can see a lot of those realities.
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In my life and I bet you do too. A lot of different things
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impacted mean what she said, one of the biggest ones was
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co-regulation. and, As a parent. I can remember the two words.
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That we said to our kids, they had two different meanings
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depending upon the situation, but we set them a lot and that
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was be still. Did you ever hear that from
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parents? Be still.
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You know, that's a Biblical term.
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It's in Psalm 46 where God says be still and know that I am.
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God. Most of the time though, we
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didn't use those two words, we had a noise.
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A sound that we would make that conveyed the same message.
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And the noise was this. How have you heard a lot?
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And again, it can mean two different things in
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co-regulation. It can mean two different
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things. One, It can be.
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Hey, you need to quiet down. Right.
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And then in Psalm 46, be still in the Hebrew language, could be
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translated, stop striving. Quit fighting.
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Surrender. Some of us today is where we are
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exactly where we are. And that still Small Voice in
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your heart. God speaking to you right now
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and that's what be still means. That's what co-regulation looks
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like for some of us. I mean, we're just torn up.
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And we need to feel that we've been taken up in the arms of
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God. He calms us.
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And he reminds us. That it's okay.
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That it's going to be okay because you're in his arms.
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maybe today is a day where you're not crying or retching or
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Overwhelmed. But because you spend some time
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with the Lord today, you can feel those things calm down.
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Some of you today have never come into an intimate personal
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relationship with Jesus Christ. You're still trying to do this
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on your own and it's time to stop that.
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It's time for you to go to him. And let him have control of your
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life. It's time to stop striving.
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It's time to quit fighting. It's time to surrender.
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There's going to be someone right over there by that
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baptistery. That would love to talk to you
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about that step. A courageous step, a huge step,
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but so powerful. So life in eternity changing For
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many of us today. It's different.
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We have that relationship with Jesus Christ and maybe, you
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know, we're feeling hypocritical, like why can't I
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Why can't I get this? Get my stuff together, why can't
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I And that's what these steps are for today.
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For you to just take that step to take a step.
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A courageous step. Get on your knees before the
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Lord, and pour your heart out to him.
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And feel. His hands pick you up.
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To feel his comfort and his strength in a time of need today
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is the day. To start a process of healing.
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It just makes sense that you would go.
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To the great physician. To the Healer.
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Would you stand with me? Let's pray together in Jesus
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name. Heavenly father I pray.
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Would you just take advantage of this moment?
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That we would be able to hear that voice.
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Your spirit inside us. Gently encouraging.
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Moving us to take a bold, step courageous step.
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And that father, we would be able to experience some healing.
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I pray father that you would accomplish a great Mighty thing.
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In Jesus name, amen. In Jesus name, amen.