Sermon
Answering Faith's Questions (Part 2) | With Dr. Sean McDowell
Publisher transcript
Transcript
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What up, Crossing family? I am so glad you guys are here.
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I want to welcome all of our different campuses, those of you
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watching online and inside, and I want to wish a special welcome
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to those of you who are here for the first time or the first time
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in a long time. I really believe that today
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could be a significant moment in your spiritual journey.
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Before we jump all the way into that, though, I want to make you
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aware of a couple of things. One, camp registration is open
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and available today. Yeah, yeah.
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So if you open up your app, go to the For You section, you'll
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find all the details about that. I want to encourage you to sign
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up early and safe. And coming alongside of that, we
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try to make sure that we do everything we can to help every
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kid who wants to go to camp be able to go to camp.
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Our In Your Corner golf outing, which provides scholarship funds
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for kids who are wanting to go to camp.
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You can sign up for that in the app.
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It is a wonderful time. Those 4G outings provide funding
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for kids who want to attend but not might not be able to afford
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it. And your participation will make
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a difference. And for those of you who are
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going, I love kids, I love Jesus, but I don't like golf.
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You can just provide a camp scholarship and every single bit
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helps and everything you give will go to making camp as
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affordable for every single kid that wants to go.
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Our goal is simple, if a kid wants to go to camp, we want to
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make it happen. And for those of you who are
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looking for a stretch goal, Jennifer and me, our goal this
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year is to send one or pay for one kid to be able to go to
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every single one of the camps. And we have 9 camps because our
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church keeps growing, which is a good thing.
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Which means that if you're wanting to try and send one kid
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to every single camp, it would be $18190.00.
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But you can give whatever you can and it will be great.
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You can find more information about that in the app as well,
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just go to the For You section. But in my years of ministry,
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sitting across the table from hundreds of you, there is almost
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always a question of faith before a step of obedience.
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That is why I am so glad that you are here today, because
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we've been talking about taking steps of faith.
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And I want you to hear me say this.
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God is not afraid of your questions, and neither are we.
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In fact, I believe that God and His Word not only welcome every
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question, but they have the answers to every major question
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about life and about faith. Now, to give you some context,
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every single one of our weekend services is going to be unique.
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So we're not asking the same questions at every single
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service. So if you're going, hey,
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question I had didn't get answered, feel free to catch up
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on the online when we post that. But to help you take your next
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step, we have partnered with Doctor Sean McDowell with us
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this weekend. Doctor Sean McDowell has devoted
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his career to help bring truth to the next generation.
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As a college professor, as a high school teacher, and as a
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prolific author. He has exceptional insights into
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prevailing culture, and he imparts his observations to
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fellow educators, pastors, parents, and to students.
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He is currently an Associate Professor of Christian
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Apologetics at Biola University, which is the largest and top
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ranked graduate program of its kind in the world.
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As a part time high school teacher, Sean was awarded
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Educator of the Year in his hometown.
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He is a highly sought after speaker here and we were
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incredibly grateful that he was willing to come and be with us.
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He's spoken at various camps, churches, universities worldwide
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and is a frequent guest on radio and television shows.
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He's a best selling author and has written or Co written over
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20 bucks. This guy doesn't sleep folks.
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He has a Master's degree in Theology and Philosophy and APHD
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in apologetics and worldview studies.
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He is also the Co host of the Think Biblically podcast.
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All he's done while he's been here is just sleep.
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Most noteworthy, he is a dedicated husband and father.
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He has been married to his high school.
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Sweet Stephanie, since 2000, he lives in beautiful Southern
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California, which is where we're going to be opening another one
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of our campuses to get out of this place.
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Crossing family, would you please put a great crossing?
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Welcome together to have Sean McDowell comes on the stage.
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God bless you man. Thanks my man.
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So this is a cool moment for me. When I went to Bible college, I
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felt like God had called me into ministry.
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But I went to Bible college with a lot of questions, and there
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was questions of faith that I was going to, I've got to get
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this figured out because I want to make sure I get it right.
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And I'm going to build not just my eternity on this, but my life
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for however long God lets me breathe on this.
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And so I signed up for classes that answered questions about
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faith. And one of the very first books
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that I got was a book called More Than a Carpenter.
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And that book was written by his father and he's actually
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rewritten it alongside of your dad.
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So that's a little bit of my journey of faith.
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So if you're a person who has questions, I want you to know I
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had questions. I still have questions.
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What's a little bit? Tell us a little bit about your
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faith journey. Yeah, so grew up in a Christian
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home, as you can imagine, with a father who's an apologist
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defending the faith. In the mid 90s I went to college
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and we had this new technology, maybe you've heard of it, called
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the Internet. Yeah, well, I'm fishing around
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at that point on learning what, like, blogs and websites are,
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and I come along this site dedicated to debunking
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Christianity. In fact, they took my dad's
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books chapter by chapter, doctors, lawyers, historians
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responding. I read this and my heart sank,
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Clayton for the first time. I was like, whoa, I don't know
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how to answer this. And so I went to my dad.
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We're up in in the mountains of Breckenridge, Co, on vacation.
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And I remember, look at my dad in the eyes.
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I'm probably 19. I said, dad, I want to know it's
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true, but I don't know that I'm convinced Christianity is true.
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Now, if you're a Christian, how would you respond if one of your
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kids or grandkids said that to you?
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My dad looked at me. He goes, son, I think that's
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great. And I said, did you hear
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anything? I just said he goes, you can't
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live on my faith. You've got to seek after truth.
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And if you seek after truth, I'm confident you'll fall Jesus
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because Jesus is the truth and I love you no matter what.
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And so God can take our questions.
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Jesus said love God with your heart and with your soul and
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with your mind. God says to Isaiah, come, let us
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reason together. And Christianity can take
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questions because it's actually true.
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Come on. So let's get into it right now.
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There is a bunch of people who will say a whole bunch of things
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about the origin of the universe, the existence of
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mankind. And so I want to kind of frame
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up the question this way. Is creation a product of God or
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a result of random chance? And let's kind of look at it
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through the lens of of intelligent design and the
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complex creation alludes to, well, you know what alludes to.
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Yeah. So this question matters because
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the Bible starts with, in the beginning, God.
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Created. Before we learn God is holy or
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loving and just, the first thing we're told is that God is a
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creator. This is a purposeful universe
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and you are not an accident. Well, how do we know this is
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true? Well, you can look at a rate,
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you can look at the beginning of the universe pointing towards
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the beginner. We can look at the fine tune of
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the laws of physics. But let's narrow down into the
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micro, into what was discovered in 1953, DNA.
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Now, if you've you've seen pictures of DNA, it's like a
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ladder that's kind of twisted and on the base of it are
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letters that are a part of the genetic code.
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Now let me put in context how incredible DNA is in the average
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adult human body, which by the way, is me, not you.
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Just for the record, I'm. I'm the, I'm the plus.
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Size version. That was a compliment.
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I always wanted to be 6/6. So the average general human
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body. I'm 59150.
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I'm probably about as average as you'll find.
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There's 30 trillion cells. Now the DNA each cell, if you
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took it out, would be about 6 feet in length.
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That means the DNA in the average adult human body would
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go from here to the sun and back about 200 * 200 times.
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Now, how much information? According to one estimate, the
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DNA in one cell in your body has an equipment of 8000 books, 8000
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books. Now, when this was discovered,
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it raises an interesting question.
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Where did this come from? What accounts for this
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information? Now, whenever we see information
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and trace it to its source, we find an information giver.
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If your shirt has information, there's a maker of the shirt.
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If you get a text and it's legible, it comes from a texter,
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A blog from Blogger, a book from an author.
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In fact, if we walk outside and in the clouds, that says drink
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Coke and I'm from Southern California.
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So I say, what is that? None of you would say, oh, that
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happens here naturally when a storm is coming down from Iowa.
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You wouldn't say that. We know that information traces
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to a mind when we look inside DNA, and we see more
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sophisticated information than the most complex things humans
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can create. I don't have enough faith to
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believe that happened by accident.
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I think the best explanation is that points beyond itself to a
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mind. So in some information points
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towards an information giver. DNA, I would argue, is like a
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fingerprint of the divine for those with eyes to see and ears
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to hear. Man, that is so good because
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what we get pushed a lot of times is random chance and we
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get all, you know, time is God in the atheistic worldview.
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And for us to realize that everything about you screams
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because you said, oh, let's actually we got time punch into
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this. You talked about it being a
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language, and that means that there is a God who's
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communicating. So there's a God who is
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revealing himself to us. Next one.
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OK, we'll do this one. Let's do it.
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All right, Doctor Sean, I agree. God exists, but I'm not a big
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fan of him because if he is all powerful and he can do all these
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good things, why doesn't he stop all the suffering in the world?
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Friends, this is the big question.
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It's a question atheists ask from the outside.
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And if you're a follower of Jesus, you've asked this
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question too. Habakkuk says, God, why do I see
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violence and you don't stop it? So first thing I would say is if
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you suffer, I am so sorry and my heart is broken for you.
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A Christian response in Romans 12/15 says be happy with those
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who are happy, be sad with those who are sad.
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If you're suffering, I mourn with you and I hurt with you.
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Second, realize God is big enough for your pain and your
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suffering and for you to express your emotions to him.
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So Psalms, there's 150 chapters and they're Psalms.
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One of the most common psalms is what we call a complaint Psalm.
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People going to God like David saying, God, you've abandoned
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me, God, where are you? God, what happened now?
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The Psalms are rooted in hopefulness, but if you're
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hurting or see somebody hurting, it's not sinful to take that
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emotions to God. God can take it.
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He's there to be our comforter. Third thing I would say is let
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me share a story that might, might help.
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In the 1800s, there was a priest by the name of Father Damien and
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he went to be a priest to care for lepers on the island of
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Molokai in the Hawaiian chain. He showed up and he would pray
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for them, he would preach to them, he would counsel them.
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He just loved them. After 12 years, something
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radically changed. He stood in front of him and he
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said 2 words that changed everything.
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This priest stood in front of the leper colony, opened up his
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robe, showed the first signs of leprosy and said, we lepers,
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Father Damien had become a leper.
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No, Nesh, a few questions. Did they know that he cared for
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them before he got leprosy? Of course, What changed on that
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day? He was no longer an outsider.
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He was somebody who stepped into their suffering, experienced it
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first hand and literally laid down his life for them.
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Next question, who is Jesus? More like Father Damien before
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he got leprosy or after. And you know the answer, don't
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you? In Christianity, God didn't just
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send a prophet. He didn't just speak in
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creation. And you're right, it's a
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language. He didn't doesn't just speak in
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dreams or send a holy book. As important and powerful as the
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Bible is, it is only in Christianity that says God steps
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into our suffering and experiences and knows it.
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That's why Hebrews 2 and Hebrews 4 say we have a high priest who
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understands. So if you're suffering because
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your family's betrayed you, you can't say Jesus, you don't
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understand. He's like, yeah, I was betrayed
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by my family and one of my disciples.
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If you're physically suffering, you can't say Jesus, you don't
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understand. He's kind of like, you know, I
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was crucified. I get it so many ways.
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When we ask where is God in our suffering, the answer is it's
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only in Christianity that says God is right there suffering
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with us now. He doesn't leave us there.
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God promises to redeem our suffering for good and to
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conquer it one day. That's why one of the most
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powerful teachings in the Bible is Jesus, who's God in human
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flesh. He's God in human flesh.
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John chapter 1 experiences the weight and suffering and
John 1 chapter mention
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temptation that we do stands before Pilate and Pilates.
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Like what am I going to do with you?
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Because I have power over life and death, and Jesus says you
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have no power over me. I lay down my life and I pick it
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up again. That's where our hope comes
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from, the resurrection of Jesus. Sin has already been defeated.
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Our suffering is going to end and God is going to redeem it
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for good. Knowing and believing that truth
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doesn't mean we escape suffering, but it means God is
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with us and gives us a hope amidst our suffering.
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That is so good and I want to, I want you guys to like take that
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all the way in because he's saying that God brings purpose
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out of your pain. Amen.
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So functionally, God does sometimes through a miraculous
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intervention, bring suffering to an end.
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Some of you have been around and you've experienced that every
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time God brings purpose out of the pain.
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And the perfect example of that is Jesus on the cross.
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The other part is part of the reason why God allows suffering
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in this world is because we're sinners who have free choice.
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If you wanted to stop the suffering in your house, you'd
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kick out all of the teenagers that live in your house, right?
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But because you're a loving parent, you tolerate a certain
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amount of suffering in your home because you love them and you
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want to guide them out of the situation and the circumstances
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that they're in. All right, let's do, let's do
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this one. We live in a world of relative
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truth. We live in a world of my truth.
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We are against exclusivity, but Jesus makes an exclusive claim.
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He says that the only way to the Father is through him.
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Isn't that too exclusive for Jesus to say that he's the only
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way to get to God, the only way to get to heaven?
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OK so First off every belief system is exclusive.
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If you claim that A is true, it means you think B through Z is
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not true. Islam is exclusivistic, Judaism
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is exclusivistic, Buddhism is exclusivistic.
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You say, well what about Hinduism?
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I was talking with the Hindu and he said, oh, I think
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Christianity is true, your belief system is true.
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I said, OK, wait a minute, you bring Christianity within
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Hinduism and my beliefs fit within yours.
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So you don't actually think Jesus is the eternal, only God,
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the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and salvation is by faith alone.
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So really, Hinduism is exclusivistic.
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Now, if I were to stand up here and say, yeah, Jesus is the only
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way, take my word for it, you'd rightly be like, yeah, why
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should I trust you? Sure, you got a little bit of
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education, but we're talking about pretty important things
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here. Who claimed to be the way, the
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truth and the life and that no one gets the Father but by him
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it's Jesus. So the question is, is this too
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exclusivistic? Why should I listen to him?
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One of the things that makes Jesus unique amongst religious
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leaders is he didn't just say here's how you get to truth.
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He didn't say here's how you experience salvation.
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He didn't say here's how you find God.
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He said I am the way, the truth and the life.
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No one gets the Father but by me and then he backed it up.
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He was the virgin born, miracle working, sinless risen Savior.
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That guy has a right to claim every other religious leader is
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still in the grave. Jesus is the only one who said
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ahead of time. Again, we see this in John 2.
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We see it in John 10. I lay down my life and I take it
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up again. We see in the beginning of Acts
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that it was prophesied the Messiah would suffer.
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Psalm 1610 tells us distinctly death does not have power over
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His chosen one. Jesus claims to be God and He
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backs it up in a way no other religious figure did.
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I'm going with that guy. Come on.
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Definitely going with that guy. Yeah, the the answer to that is
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Jesus is the only one who and then you start filling in the
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blank. Why does Jesus make the
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exclusive claim that he's the only one or only way to get to
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the Father? It's because he's the only one
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who can make those exclusive claims.
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He's the only one who was before the foundations of the world.
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He's the only one who spoke the universe into existence.
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He's the only one who holds it all together, as it says in
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Colossians. He's the only one who came and
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lived a sinless life. He's the only one who died on
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behalf of our sin. He's the only one who was
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crucified and then three days later rose again like he's the
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only one who, and when you're the only one who you get to make
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the exclusive claims. I am the only one who is married
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to Jennifer. That is an exclusive claim.
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And I've got all the receipts to back it up.
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Literally thousands upon thousands of receipts to back it
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up. She doesn't send the bill to
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anybody else. Now listen, that is not a
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hurtful claim. That's a truthful claim.
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When Jesus saying he's the only way, he is not making a hurtful
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claim. He's making a loving.
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Claim. Amen.
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Because if you want to get to God, He has made a way.
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Now this ties into the next question.
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By the way, really quickly, Christianity is not an exclusive
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faith, it's an inclusive faith, meaning Jesus died for everyone
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and invites everyone to repentance.
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Buddhism mostly limited to China.
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Hinduism mostly limited to India.
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Islam mostly limited to the Middle East.
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There are Christians following Jesus in every faith and
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language and background in the world.
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It truly is the most inclusive faith.
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Come on now. So we're talking about faith.
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OK, This is a a question that I remember wrestling with in my
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early years of ministry. So graduated from college and
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you're going to go Clayton. You must not have been doing as
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good of a job in class as you should have.
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So I'm going to if God or why doesn't God make himself more
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obvious? Because if this is where we're
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putting ourselves in, which is a dangerous place.
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So let's acknowledge it. If I was God, I would park,
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disguise speaking this, you know, I'm God, pay attention to
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me. And everybody would go, hey, I
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think this is real. We probably ought to get this
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figured out. Why doesn't God do that?
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Totally fair question all of us at some point have been like God
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answer this prayer God make yourself more clear and then I
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would believe I get it but Romans one tells us that God has
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made himself sufficiently clear. We know this.
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It's obvious because it's written into creation.
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So God has made himself sufficiently known through
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creation, but we suppress it in unrighteousness for other
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reasons. I think we also know God exists.
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Romans 2 through conscience. There's a moral law.
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We know there's right and wrong, and we know we've fallen short
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of it. But that only makes sense.
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There's a moral law if there's a moral law giver.
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So I think God has made himself sufficiently clear.
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Nonetheless, we say, why does God make himself more obvious?
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Well, here's the trade off is that the more obvious God makes
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us, the more he kind of squelches our freedom.
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So we're kind of forced to believe in God rather than
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choose to believe in him. Out of relationship, he'd say,
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yeah, but God, if he just did more obvious miracles, people
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would believe. And I'd say maybe, maybe let me
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give you 2 examples from the Bible.
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Only in the Gospel, John, do we have the raising of Lazarus from
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the dead on the 4th day. By the way, there were people
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watching this. Jesus shows up and they laugh at
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him, saying you're going to rise him from the dead.
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They raise him from the dead and everybody repents.
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Actually, you know, that's exactly how the story didn't go.
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They raised from that publicly. What do they want to do?
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They want to kill Lazarus and run Jesus out of town.
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It wasn't a lack of evidence, it was something else.
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How about the Old Testament you mentioned?
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Like why doesn't God part the Red Sea he did or part some sea
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he did for the Israelites? They saw all the 10 plagues and
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the miracles manna from heaven. And then you go along in the
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story, what do they do? They go up the mountain and they
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start worshipping a golden calf when Moses goes up the mountain.
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So more evidence doesn't necessarily mean people will
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follow and worship God, which is what God wants from us.
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I struggled with this as well. My God, why don't you make
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yourself more obvious? And I remember, I remember an
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atheist on this website, now that I think about it, in the
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90s, he said, if God really exists, why wouldn't he write on
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the moon Jesus lives or why wouldn't he write on the cell
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made by Yahweh after we're after all all our toys say like made
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in China. Clayton, I studied DNA and I
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stopped. I thought, you know what he did
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with DNA. It's as if God has signed every
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cell with evidence of His presence.
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I understand the cry for more evidence.
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It's human nature to do this. But don't let us miss how God
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has made himself known in our moral conscience, in creation,
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in miracles, in change lives, in the Scripture, in the church for
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those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
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God might not be as obvious as we would like, but he has
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sufficiently made himself known. If you're there, I would say,
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God, make yourself real to me. Reveal yourself.
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Be willing to repent of sin, get into the scriptures and bring
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your questions to God. God can take it.
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That is so good and let me let me key in and put a couple more
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things in your tool belt on this one.
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One, we are saved by faith through grace.
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So there is an element of us that has to believe.
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I don't have to believe that Jennifer exists.
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I can see her. I don't have to trust that she
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exists. I can see her.
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And God tells us that the way we please Him is by faith.
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So there is an element of our walk with him that is sustained
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and originates in the area of faith.
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But watch this. God blesses that.
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He looks at his followers who have seen him provide all kinds
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of miracles. He says that you know you are
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great. It's great that you guys
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believe, but blessed are those who believe even though they
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don't see. And what are we told that we
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will get enjoy when we get to heaven?
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Our faith will disappear because we will have sight.
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God has made Himself clear to people who are willing to look,
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and He has made Himself available to those who are not
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obstinate to belief in Him. But if you have a hardened
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heart, it doesn't matter how many miracles you see, you still
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won't believe. In fact, in almost every big
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atheist Christian debate, there comes that moment where
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oftentimes the the the Christian apologist will say, if God
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parted the sea and opened the doors right now and he said all
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this stuff to you, what would you think?
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And he goes, well, then I would believe he goes, you sure you
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wouldn't think you were having a hallucination?
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Because that is actually the claim that they put on all the
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people who did see Jesus who had rose from the dead.
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So even if you buy into their argument, they won't give it
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over because their hearts are hard, they're rebellious,
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they're wicked against the things of God.
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All right, let me let me do this.
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And would you guys give Sean a big round of applause?
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Thank you so much. Thank.
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You Jesus was with his disciples ancestry of Philippi.
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It was like the Lake of the Ozarks for the Middle East.
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It was where you went away to kind of have a good time with
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your close friends. Not in a sinful way.
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I don't want to paint that in a bad way, but because I know you
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guys go to the lake and you lose your Jesus.
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But Jesus is with his disciples ancestry of Philippi and he
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asked them in Matthew chapter 16 verse 14, who do you say that I
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am? And their answer was, some say
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John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and still others
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Jeremiah or one of the prophets. A lot of people that you know,
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they have a different view of Jesus than maybe you do,
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depending on where you're watching or where you're reading
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or what you're scrolling through.
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You'll say, you'll see some people say that Jesus was a
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fictional character. Some will say that he was a
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prophet. There'll be some who will say he
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was a really good teacher. There'll be some who will say he
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was a charismatic leader. Others will say he was just a
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mid, a misunderstood 1st century Jew.
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And all of this is a bunch of hoopla about nothing.
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But Jesus didn't end the conversation there.
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The next verse, Matthew 16, verse 15, Jesus said, but what
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about you? Who do you say I am?
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The question today is not what do others believe about Jesus,
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but what do you believe about Jesus?
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When you stand before God, he's not going to give you a pop quiz
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on what all of your friends and family and neighbors thought
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about Jesus. He's going to say, what do you
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believe about Jesus? Simon Peter raises his hand,
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verse 16, and he answered, you are the Christ, the Son of the
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living God. And Peter's answer was the right
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one. He realized that Jesus was the
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Christ, the anointed one, the promised Messiah, God in the
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flesh, who was going to deliver people not just from the penalty
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of their sin, but save them from their sins and bring them into a
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right relationship with his heavenly Father.
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And you might be thinking right now, easy for Peter.
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He was there. He saw all of this take place.
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I want you to hear me say this. Yeah, I know.
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And do you know what he did? He died taking his eyewitness
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testimony to the nation's. Hear me When we talk about
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placing our faith in Jesus, I'm not discounting the fact that it
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is a step of faith, but it is a reasoned faith.
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When I say a reasoned faith, I'm saying there are reasons,
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really, really good reasons to believe that Jesus is the
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Christ. There are eyewitness accounts
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not just of his life, but also of his death and resurrection.
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In fact, Jesus appeared to over 500 people after his
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resurrection. The biblical text, it can stand
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up to critics and it can hold up to skeptics.
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The evidence for the existence of God not only stands up to
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scrutiny, but it delivers the very best and most reliable
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answers. I believe the best answer for
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the beginning of the universe is found in God.
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The fine tuning of the universe, that answer is found in God.
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How do we explain the laws of nature, the existence of
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objective moral values? Those are all rooted and found
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in God. And that is before you count the
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countless lives that have been transformed, changed, redeemed
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and repurposed, of which I'm 1. And so are you.
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And you might be saying, but I don't know everything.
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Yeah, I get it. You don't know everything.
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But you know enough. Hear me?
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How many of you fellas here help me out?
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You know everything there is to know about women.
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Raise your hand. Yeah.
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Someone, someone just got saved here at 48th St.
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Yeah. Nobody knows everything there is
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to know about what? But raise your hand if you want
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one or you're glad you have one. If you didn't raise your hand
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there, that was a You're going to be buying some expensive
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stuff before the day's over. OK.
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You got to stay awake. I got Jennifer here.
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I still to this day do not know everything there is to know
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about her, but I knew enough about her to know that I wanted
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to spend the rest of my life with her.
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It makes sense to me that a God who created the world, set the
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stars in place, wrote the laws of nature, moved the mountains
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into place, is big enough to hold the waters of the ocean,
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and the palm of His hands might be a little too big for me to
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completely wrap my mind around. But I know enough to know that I
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need Him. I know enough to know that I
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want Him. And I know enough to know I
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don't want to spend another day of my life without Him.
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And if you're here today and you've never started that
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relationship with Jesus Christ, it's time for you to think about
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it. And if you're here today and
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you're going, you know what? It's time for me to start living
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my life in alignment with the faith that I actually profess.
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I'm so glad you're here today. And that's why we're going into
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this time of decision. And we're going to do, Yeah,
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thank you guys. We're going to do something we
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don't get to do all that often. And that is I'm getting to stay
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live at all of our locations. And thank you so much for
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staying connected with us. And let me just talk for just a
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second to those of you gathering all across this region who have
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never started an intimate personal relationship with Jesus
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Christ. You see, God is not just great
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and powerful and majestic and mighty, He is also good.
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So good in fact, that He did not make us get right.
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And then we could go to him and said He came down to make us
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right so we could be with Him. Romans chapter 5 verse 8 says
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this, but God demonstrates His own love for us and this that
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while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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In other words, salvation was His idea.
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He did it before you drew your first breath, before you
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committed your first sin, before you rejected His Son, abandoned
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his purpose for you, and He still sent his Son to the cross
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anyway to bring you back to Him. And in just a few moments, at
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all of our locations, when the people stand and sing and people
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come to the steps and pray. If you're here today and you've
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never started an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus
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Christ, your next move is to talk to somebody about that.
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And at all of our locations next to the baptistry, there's going
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to be a campus pastor or somebody who would love a chance
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to talk with you, and I hope you'll do it.
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And to those of you who do have a relationship with Jesus
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Christ, my prayer for you is simple.
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May your faith in God inspire you to greater devotion, to
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greater obedience and greater participation in the mission of
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God. May it strengthen you in your
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prayers and guide you through your darkest valleys.
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Would you guys stand with me? Heavenly Father, you know
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exactly what every single one of us needs to do in this moment
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right now, and I'm asking that You would lead us, guide us,
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direct us, and empower us to take the steps that we
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desperately need to take. In Your name, I pray.
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Amen.