Father's Day Panel Discussion

It's a joy to see your faces.

It's been a long time, hasn't it?

So we are going to dive in.

We are thankful to have these fellows with us today.

And we're going to talk about the ministry of fatherhood.

We're going to talk about the evidences of grace.

We're going to talk about where they miss the mark.

It's going to get really interesting.

So but it's a joy to um think about fathers and the ministry of fatherhood and uh biblical manhood as well.

And how we want to exalt those things in the name of Christ, not over Christ, but just the joy of being a man under the leadership of Christ.

So we're going to talk about that.

We're just going to dive in.

So, guys, if you can go ahead and introduce yourselves.

Tell me your name.

Tell them your name.

A little bit about your immediate family and your role in serving the church.

Who wants to start us off?

Brian, go ahead.

All right, I'll start off.

My name's Brian Smith.

Let's see here.

I'm married to Katie.

We've been married for about nine years.

We have three boys, Jack, Lucas, and Isaac.

So they're eight, six, and four.

They're waving right there.

Let's see here.

And my role in the church, so Katie and I lead a mission group in Westchester.

We've been doing that for several years.

It's been real good.

All right.

Alright, well, Jonathan Veg, my family back there, Melanie and my wife, we've been married almost nine years as well.

And then my daughter Kennedy, my son Silas, and then Stella.

You guys can wave if you want.

Hi guys.

No, they're not gonna.

They're a little shy.

So but as far as my role here, again, my wife and I have been here from the very beginning, but we get the honor and privilege of serving uh the preschool kids and being able to teach that class and really um hopefully they see Jesus in each and every week that we teach.

So we really have been enjoying that since we've been here.

Uh so I'm Nick.

Um I'm married to my wife Star.

Uh I have a my eight-year-old son Josiah, my six-year-old daughter Nadia, and our five-month-old daughter Simone.

They're all back there.

Um, we don't attend here, we actually attend Crossroads, but in that role, I do serve on the bird team, and my wife serves in the Kiss Club Ministry.

Thank you for joining us this morning.

It's a joy to have you.

Awesome.

Uh I'm Justin, um the lead pastor here at Sacred Mission Church.

Me and my wife will be celebrating 14 years in a month or two here in August.

Uh we have four children Addison, who's 11, Piper, who's nine, Harper, who's five, and Liam, who's three.

I serve the church in um every way imaginable.

No.

But uh I love I love serving the church and getting my hands dirty and in the things of ministry.

Uh and my wife also volun my wife and my 11-year-old daughter volunteer on the hospitality team, and my wife also volunteers in other she's on staff with us and does other stuff.

So all right, thank you guys.

Well, we're glad to have you in the hot seat today and reverse some roles here.

Yeah.

So, and the rest of you as well.

So, are you guys ready?

Yeah.

Um, what was the greatest lesson you learned from your own father about how to lead well?

Anyone can go.

I guess I'll go first.

Everyone's kind of looking at me, so I'll go I'll go first.

So um, I think the greatest lesson, um, and it really revolves around this one thing of just being present, being there.

Um, my dad growing up, he worked really hard for our family, but he also was very present.

Um, and that really played into how he led our family, right?

It's really hard uh to lead your family when you're not there, but not just being there, but also being engaged with your family, um, discipling your family.

Uh he did a great job of every, you know, every few days we would sit down and we would have family devotions.

Um it's because he was there, it's because he was present, he just wasn't physically there, but he was there spiritually really to push us to Jesus.

So um I haven't been always great in that area in my own life, but that's been something that definitely, as I'm thinking about leading my family, is not just being there, but also um engaging with my family uh day in and day out.

Present and engaging, very important.

Anyone else?

So uh there's a lot of ways this question could go, but uh one story uh came to mind about how my dad led our family with me growing up.

Um so Jonathan here mentioned uh daily devotionals pushing uh his family towards Christ, which is great.

Uh my dad took a different approach.

Um, so I think one thing we're gonna hear a lot about is discipline and the challenge in disciplining, how to do that correctly.

Uh my dad uh many times after disciplining me would take the time to sit with me, and one thing he would consistently say was, Brian, you there is nothing you can do that will make me not love you.

I will always love you.

It wasn't until after I left the house and got to college that I realized that is how Christ loves me.

That is I I I struggle with sin, and yet, you know, the Bible tells us that there is nothing that can take God's love away from us when we're in Christ.

It it and that, so well, how does that help me lead my family?

Well, I gotta I gotta tell myself, okay, I gotta have that sort of grace for my my sons, I gotta have that sort of grace for my wife.

Uh, and and really, I mean, that points to the gospel.

So what my dad taught me was a practical view of how the gospel plays itself out day to day.

Yes, certainly, you know, we think about Christ and his um extended love to us, how we do not deserve it, and we often learn so many lessons with our children, with our spouses, and being parents ourselves that we can we have to extend that grace to others even just as Christ extended it to us.

So anyone else want to answer this question?

So I guess opposite to you guys, I didn't have that growing up.

Um I had to essentially learn from other men outside of my dad what that looks like.

So it wasn't until I maybe was when I got married actually, um, and just being around other men who were married and learning from them what does marriage look like, or what does leading your family look like.

So a lot of stuff was kind of like trial by error, um, and finding out the hard way, unfortunately.

But uh thankful for those men who you know I did have later in life to show me like, okay, this is what you're supposed to do.

It's not easy, um, but it's worth it.

Yeah, I think for me too, I didn't have a I mean my my I come from a broken home, and so one want to strive to honor my dad as I'm trying to reconcile a healthy relationship with him now that we haven't had for you know 30 plus years.

But one thing it was interesting with this question because one thing I rejected about my dad, I've come to actually see how um an outright rejection of it is actually an equally unhealthy thing, is this overwork.

So he worked a lot and it was to a point of unhealth, and I rejected work uh because I equated that work ethic with an abandonment of family.

And uh, but it wasn't until probably several years into our marriage did the Lord show me how that responsibility is part of manhood.

And I was able to then look back and start seeing that not all of his work ethic was selfish, but it was to try and provide in certain ways, and and and so that was something that God has redeemed, and I'm able to now look at my father and and aspects of that honor and see how that was a vital role of being a man, providing for your family.

It's something I rejected first off because of the correlation that I had with it, but yeah.

Yeah, often we can look back on our childhood and even think about the lessons that we learned from our own home, and uh, but be thankful for the body of Christ and how the body of Christ has stepped in and shown us how to be men and women.

So thank you guys.

Our next question is what have been some fears you've had to overcome in leading your family?

Um I can up this one again, I guess.

As everyone's trying to not look at Brandy, she kind of gives you the nod that you probably should answer this question.

Um so growing up in a really loving, uh, godly home, but one of the things that I really struggle with growing up, and part of um the parenting style that my parents had was kind of this uh kind of workspace, a little bit of legalistic approach.

And so um I have a lot of baggage when it comes to that, and so when I look at my kids, the fear I have is that they're going to struggle with those same things.

And um, for those who don't know me very well, um look it up afterwards.

I'm not gonna go into it, but desk, I'm a very high D, and so I like control.

Um you can actually ask my wife that afterwards if you'd like.

Um I love control, and so part of the fear I have of my kids being how I grew up is controlling them and making sure they don't fall into those same traps that I did and learnings that I've had.

Um, and what it what's caused that fear is um you know maybe extending a little bit too much grace instead of discipline.

So I can kind of tend to maybe not discipline as maybe as harshly as I should because of the fear that they're going to end up like um and have those same struggles that I have.

And so um I'm not in essence trusting that my obedience to God is enough and that He will um lead and guide my family in that way.

I need to be obedient to Him.

So my fear in that has really uh it's been a struggle Um for the last few years, but um by God's grace I'm you know in prayer and able to um overcome some of those fears I've had.

Yeah.

I think for me the biggest fear I had to overcome was that I'd I'd mess up and be rejected.

And uh I didn't really think for for the first part of our marriage and children, I felt at some point this is gonna end, and I'm gonna be left or I'm gonna be rejected because I'm gonna mess up.

And that was kind of a pattern where uh I felt that my performance conditioned or dictated the amount of attention or love or affection that I would get in certain situations, specifically with me and my father.

And so there I had this fatalist mentality going in, and at times I just didn't try because I thought at some point this isn't gonna work out.

I'm gonna be left, I'm gonna be rejected.

And uh it was really God showing the love of Christ through my wife, of every time I screwed up, she it's not like it's not like she she she just extended so much grace and gave me so much more assurance of how committed she is to me that I was able to then correlate God's relentless love for me that that is unconditional, that nothing I can do.

I didn't earn it, I can't do anything to keep it.

Um it's always just lavished upon me, and she's shown that, and that's given me much more courage and strength to realize they're not going anywhere, and that it's act weirdly caused me to try harder because I know that I can't mess up in such a way where I'll be rejected.

And so that was probably the biggest fear I had to overcome.

I think my biggest fear was um being like my dad and essentially abandoning my family.

And I shared this uh that concern with my wife, and kind of like you were saying, like your wife, you guys are just like full of grace and forgiveness and wisdom, and it's just like how do you you know battle that fear?

Um you're not supposed to battle alone.

And I think in God placed in our wives, you know, that support there.

So just being mindful of okay, even though that happened, it doesn't have to happen to me.

Yeah, and it doesn't have to happen to my family.

So I could take this question many ways as well.

Uh you know, I I think I'm the youngest one up here on stage.

Uh I guess one fear that I've I've struggled with through fathering, right, uh, would be am I man enough?

Am I man enough to father my children, to be a husband to my wife?

You know, we every everyone has their idea of what a man should be.

You know, we think of the ideal man, uh the guy who gets it right every time.

And you look at your own life and you realize I get it wrong many times.

Um so I guess I I don't know.

I don't know how to answer this, but that that would be one of those fears.

One of one of the lies actually would be I have to get it right every single time.

Every single time.

I don't have to get it right every single time.

Look at look at the men in the Bible, throughout the Bible.

All of them except for one, got it wrong.

All of them did.

Thankfully, we have Jesus.

So that just preaching that to myself, having my wife point me to that truth, has has just been huge.

Yeah, thankfully, we ultimately just need to fear the Lord and nothing else and no one else.

All right, next question, guys.

How does this the idea of servant leadership affect your affect your day-to-day?

So, kind of what does it look like in the mundane moments to be a servant leader in your household?

Well, I'll be the first to admit I like being served.

And uh my wife is such an awesome helpmate that, like, if I'm not careful, I could exploit that and and and really abuse that because she is so just good at being a helpmate uh with me, with my children.

And so my propensity is I really have to fight exploiting her gifts and exploiting her kind of disposition uh for my own gain.

Because I could be I could do that to be really lazy, right?

And there's times where I've done that and uh and I've been selfish and I've exploited that in sinful ways.

And so um I learned from her.

She does that really well, and I'm trying to ask myself more and more, you know, how does this serve my family?

How does this serve my children in uh in the thing?

So and it it's it's the goof when you learn your spouse and you learn your children, it's the it's like the goofiest stuff.

It's like stuff that when I think, oh, I'm gonna serve my family really well by doing this, like it doesn't, that that just doesn't.

She wants me to like help with the dishes.

Like, what?

Or she wants me to, you know, hey, can you just help do this one little thing?

It's like, well, yeah, I can, but I had the, you know, I might have had like a bigger idea of like, oh, but wouldn't you have?

And it's like, no, I just want you to help in these small little ways.

And so I think it's one for me, it's not exploiting the disposition and and gift set of my wife for my own gain.

Two, it's understanding how my wife feels served and how my children feel served apart from how I think they should be, um, and then submitting that all in prayer just constantly of trying to be self-aware in this in this in the moment.

How can I, right now, I could either choose to sit on the couch longer or I could choose to get up and do something, or I could choose to go out and I like to shop way more than my wife does.

So I could go out, shop, and leave her with the kids again for longer, or I could stay home and be present.

So, yeah.

I'm gonna brag on my husband real fast, even though he's not up here.

Um, but when we were probably a week into marriage, you said it said something about the dishes, so I'm gonna share the story.

We were about a week into marriage, and um and I thought it's going really well.

I like this.

And um we're clearing the dinner table, and I bring the dishes up to the counter from the table.

I go to the restroom, I come back, and he is washing the dishes.

And I thought, praise Jesus.

And I was like, I said, What are you doing?

And he goes, I want to be a servant leader.

And I was like, I am so glad I married you.

So, guys, what stories do you have to get along with that?

Well, I totally wash the dishes.

Um I will wash the dishes in a heartbeat.

That's only because I stuck at cooking.

But yeah, my wife, um, kind of like you were saying, you know, just being aware of her gifts and listening to her and listening to the kids.

They have needs, they have ways they want to be served.

Of course, we have our ways that we want to be served.

Um, but as a leader, it's more so of listening to what they're telling you.

Um, they don't talk for no reason at all.

They're talking because they want to be heard, and oftentimes we kind of dismiss that.

No, they're kids, or no, she just wants me to do this because she wants something to brag about or you know, nick nag about.

But at the end of the day, it's more so of just listening to what they're wanting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I I I mean, I don't have a lot to add to that, but I mean, this idea of servant leadership.

Um, I'm in business and I love like leadership styles, and how can I better lead my team?

And this idea of servant leadership is if you think about leadership styles as actually coming back in the business world.

And so, um, but it's really interesting because this isn't anything new, uh, because Jesus was the ultimate servant.

And um, for me, it's been really helpful just um in times that I'm just not sure how to lead it, just to look at the life of Jesus because he's the one who served, right?

He did not come here to be served, but to serve others.

And if you look through the gospels, you see how Jesus served.

I mean, think about the Son of Man, the person or the God who created the universe.

He came as a man and he was here, he served us.

He had to eat food, he had to walk.

I mean, just it's incredible to see that.

Um, and that's the example that um I try to look at um when I'm struggling, um, and I fail every day.

And I think day in and day out, it looks like, again, to your guys' points, just talking to my wife, being engaged with her, asking her how I can help and serve her.

So I definitely get that wrong quite a bit, but uh, by God's grace, um, He's uh helped me through.

Yeah, so servant servant leadership, honestly, the first thing that came to my mind was also dishes, uh, which is a good thing to do.

We shouldn't belittle that.

That's that's a great way to serve your family.

Um as a guy, uh, when confronted with a problem, the first thing I think about is how can I fix that problem?

Uh and I know my wife, many times, she just wants me to listen.

She wants me to uh hear what she's struggling with and not necessarily fix it, but but listen.

So as a as a husband and father, uh, yeah, servant uh servant leadership, I think of the things I can do, uh, but a good servant is one who knows the people he serves.

So, Jonathan, you mentioned presence, uh taking time, taking time to listen to my wife, taking time to sit with my sons and understand what they're struggling with.

Uh, not necessarily saying, all right, here's how we're gonna get from point A to point B and we're gonna have a good solution here.

Many times servant leadership is just giving the people in your family the time of day and listening to them.

That is a great way to serve your family and those around you.

Yeah.

Yeah, it might seem like a little thing to you or something that doesn't matter, but it if it's so much bigger to someone else, that's part of extending grace and thinking of the gospel and considering someone else better than yourself, just like Christ did.

So all right, guys.

How has understanding your role as a pastor of your home impacted discipling your family?

So I'll just uh piggyback off my last answer uh with regards to time.

So uh when I think of a pastor, I mean I'm not a pastor, I've never given a sermon, but when we think of a pastor, we think of a man at a pulpit giving a sermon to a congregation, which is what pastors do.

Pastor of a home, how how often do I stand in front of my family and say, All right, family, uh listen to this sermon.

This is, you know, I don't think I've ever done that.

I I may have done I've maybe a couple of times.

But I think about those times when I do pastor my family, uh, when I do sit with them, when I listen to them, all those talks that we've had about the gospel, all those talks about you know, we're working through something hard, or uh just a conversation at the dinner table, all of those conversations, most of those have never been planned.

They've come up because we've had time.

To sit together.

Many times at bedtime, you know, we'll be reading a story, and one of my boys, maybe Isaac, will ask me a question about I don't know, some random topic.

Many times that leads us to the gospel.

Many times that's it.

And it comes through spending time with them.

So, pastoring, if you're wondering, as a man, how do I pastor my children?

How do I shepherd my wife's heart?

Give them time.

Take time to have those conversations.

Maybe you have an agenda, maybe you don't have an agenda, but the Lord has used that time in my family to bring up the gospel.

It just takes time.

Go for it.

Kind of piggybacking off of you.

When I saw the first, when I saw the question about the pastor, I was like, I've never given a sermon.

I'm not justing.

But ultimately, just you know, how do I lead my family?

And in those moments.

So for me, when I pastor my family, it's more of bath time.

So when I give the kids baths, it's my role of serving.

And just having that prayer time with them.

It's religiously prayer time.

Every night before bed, we do prayers.

And they come up with some of the most far-fetched prayers that you can think of, but it's from their hearts.

And I listen to them and I kind of affirm them in their prayers.

But also my wife, we've kind of we're trying to adopt, you know, us taking time for one another to sit and talk to each other.

Um so the other night we just kind of sat on a porch and was just talking about any and everything.

Because we don't normally get that time, of course, with work and three kids is pretty busy, but just making sure, like you said, set around, set that side, set aside that time where it's intentional and you're you're getting to know each other and you're understanding each other better.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think for me, I've tried to be as committed ruthlessly to this notion that God forbid I'm a pastor to all these people, and my children don't have a pastor, or my wife.

And so that's hard because often when I get home, I'm really tired of being a pastor, you know, like depending on what meetings I had that day or what I had to prepare or whatever it was.

And so, but I think, you know, as much as we do, I take discipling theologically, um, my children very seriously.

Uh, we one thing that I think I'll try to be as short as I can, but one is nothing's taboo in our house.

We talk about everything.

Um, and no matter what the subject is, we talk about it and we look for ways to interject the gospel into every moment because discipleship, there's a formal reality to discipleship.

Um, like we've done catechisms of learning, we've done uh devotional books, we've done all kinds of different things, uh the uh children's systematic theology.

Uh but there's a relational side that's that's going to be far more time spent of discipleship than the formal.

Um and so in that relational time, it's when can you interject the gospel?

When can you stop and like pray about a situation?

Um I you know, we have our kids pray for us, pray for people.

One of our church members was losing a family member, and I and I we were present as they were going through that, and I it was I saw it as a time, and I asked my children who were with me to go lay hands on them and pray.

And it's 11-year-old and nine-year-old going and praying for an adult.

But it's the reality, I think what we do is we start to have our circles of adult time and talking about Jesus time, and the kids are often viewed as a giant interruption to that.

And what all we're doing is training them for that Jesus isn't for them until they're older, and most of the time when they get older, they're going to be disinterested in Jesus.

And so, what I want to constantly do is invite the mess and interruption in, because it's not one, it's an opportunity to be able to gospel and shepherd.

And last thing I'll say is it's helped me understand the shepherd always carries the crook, and the crook can kind of facilitate a few things.

One, it identifies authority, so I take responsibility as the head authority in our home.

Uh, two, it protects from the enemy.

Um, and so I make sure that I fight sin and fight against the powers of sin in our home as much as I can through gospeling, not this like uh legalistic kind of posture, which is easy to do, right?

Just quit doing that.

You know, you can just yell at your kids and just stop it.

Uh, but uh, and then I think uh also uh the the crook provides discipline for the sheep.

And so taking primary role and responsibility and disciplining my own children, Katie has disciplined our kids, but it's very rare, and I make sure that I take that front line of uh of disciplining them, uh, but with gospel um through it.

And so much like Brian's dad, I'll tell them, you know, nothing you ever can do will make me love you less.

And this action you know breaks my heart, but I I'm doing it because I love you and because I want you to understand the pain and suffering that you could be imiting in your life from this.

And so, yeah.

Yeah, so um I nothing, not a lot to add, but um just this idea of being a pastor to your family.

I mean, we see this uh in scripture before you become actually a pastor, the qualifications is leading your family well.

And so that's something that I didn't really understand until I became apparent what that really meant to pastor and shepherd my family.

But now some of you mentioned that you know it's amazing what kids can really understand when you disciple them.

Don't discount um not just the gospel but the deep things of scripture and of who God is, because it's incredible when you know my son or my daughter come up and say something, I was like, where in the world did you hear that from?

How did you learn that?

And so they can learn a lot more than you think, and so don't be afraid to challenge your kids, but also not just speaking the truth, but asking those questions, saying, Okay, why don't we hit our brother?

Oh, it's not just because it's it's wrong, but because he is created in the image of God.

And so I think really directing him in that way and asking those questions, it's amazing what they can remember.

I'll say too, lean into the resources that are available.

That there's an ocean of resources for parents.

You don't have to make this up, and and the Bible is a great resource too.

Just sit down and read the scriptures to your kids.

But as a as a dad, you can have this expectation.

I just want to encourage dads for a second.

Like, you're gonna sit down and do family worship, and uh and like it's just gonna be beautiful, right?

And you're gonna have everybody paying full attention, sitting properly, the Holy Spirit's gonna descend like a dove on top of you as you're proclaiming the word of God to your children, and then all of a sudden a angelic host of will surround you, and you'll sing the doxology as you close down the section.

That's never happened.

And most of the time during family worship, it's a nightmare.

I mean, it's kids screaming, hitting each other.

We try to do worship, and somehow worship turns into some form of WrestleMania.

It's like, you know, we encourage dance for Jesus, worship Jesus expressively, and then all of a sudden someone gets DDT in the corner, and it's like, no, Jesus doesn't like that.

He does not like that.

You're making Jesus sad.

Uh but uh but you've got the the biggest thing is is is consistency.

It is going to be horrible.

I just want you to know.

It is going there, you're gonna feel like no one's listening to you.

You're gonna feel like they don't respect you, like they don't love Jesus.

How in the world did I ever baptize this kid?

There's no way they actually love Jesus.

You're gonna think all those thoughts.

But you'll be surprised.

And the way uh we'll have questions and conversations, and it's like, oh my Lord, you were listening.

And the Lord is using that to spark curiosity about Himself in their hearts and in their minds.

So encourage you guys, the biggest thing you can do is to do it.

And whether that's cracking open the book of Matthew and start reading to your children 15 minutes a day, or it's using a resource that's available for parents, they if and what I've discovered too, and I'll I'll stop, don't let your kids break you.

Just do it.

And keep doing it, and keep doing it.

But if you allow their perceived posture of disinterest or disregard for your efforts to make you not do it the next day, it's not worth it.

Keep plugging through, keep going, and be as consistent as you possibly can.

Yeah, kids are so impressionable and they're the worst.

Uh you never realize that they they it's few and far between, but they are soaking things up like a sponge, and they're watching you how you respond to um their fights in the corner during family devotions.

Um but if you don't shepherd them, who will?

You know?

Absolutely.

And so thank you guys for serving your families that way.

How does your personal walk with Jesus affect your discipleship impact in your home?

So we're taking that whole discipleship thing to the next level here, making it a little more personal.

So I mean, not to oversimplify it, but there's a direct correlation, right?

When I'm not spending time in word uh or in prayer, it directly translates into how I lead my family and even how I disciple my family.

And so um, you know, a lot of what we're saying up here is very descriptive, not prescriptive.

So um, but for you know, for me in our stage of life, um, you know, as Justin said earlier and others, consistency is important.

Um, but it doesn't necessarily matter when that is.

So right now, our kids are getting up about five or six times a night, and so it's really hard for us to get up early.

It's almost impossible.

And so we spend time at night um reading the word and and praying.

And um, I I had a pastor friend in California that said, you know, he he was he had this whole spiel on be a five plusser, which is at least five times a week, uh the best you can, be in the word and in prayer.

Obviously, every day would be great, but he's like, there's a direct correlation with the time that you're in your word, so that's to how you lead your family.

Um, and I I see that day and day when I'm not in that word in the word, um, I can be short with my family, um, and the Holy Spirit's just not um working through me in those ways.

So that's just an encouragement to you guys out there to just be consistent.

So, yeah, I would say to piggyback off of that, just making sure me personally, when I'm worshiping, um, I love worship music.

And that's my my thing.

My so I saw it my go-to.

If I'm something's going on, I like to walk and just listen to my music.

Um, but I find during that time it's if something's going on at home.

When I'm after I'm finished worshiping and talking to Jesus, ten times out of ten, my wife has heard something while I'm in that moment.

And that kind of translates to us being on the same page and and that dwindles over to the kids.

So just making sure that I'm aware of, okay, if something's going on, God, what where am I at mentally, um spiritually, and get me there to where I can be a better person, per se, around my family.

So I would say, and my boys can verify this, but like when we're sitting around the table, uh, the boys will be talking about something, Katie will bring something up, and I can't tell you how many times what I've read either that day or earlier in the week applies directly to what we're talking about.

Um I'm a part of a group of guys that for the past year and a half we've met every week, 6 a.m.

Thursday mornings.

We crack open the Bible, we read it together, we talk about what we've learned, and we pray for each other.

Uh there's really no uh nothing more than that.

And many times around the dinner table, I'll say, Boys, let me tell you what me and the men have been talking about.

Or let me tell you what I've read in the Bible.

That's not a coincidence.

Not a coincidence at all.

You know, we believe that the Bible is breathed out by God, all scripture is breathed out by God.

When we read the Bible, when we study it, when we discuss it, that's not a coincidence that the Lord showed me this passage or this paragraph or this chapter of this book.

Um, that has impacted my family greatly.

Take, for example, Romans 10, 9, and 10.

My boys could probably recite it.

Um, but if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Two of my boys are now Christians because of that verse.

That verse was was brought up uh in my in my time with other guys discussing the Bible.

So I cannot stress enough the importance of being in the Bible, discussing it with your wife, with your friends, with your children.

Uh I cannot stress that enough.

And yeah, I don't do it perfectly.

The five plusser, there's you know, I have good weeks, I have good days, I have terrible months sometimes, but the Lord still uses all that.

Absolutely.

Agree.

All right, amen.

Um, yeah, it is true that uh as men, even as just as parents in general, we set the tone for the home.

And where does our tone begin?

It begins in what we put inside us.

It begins from the word, it begins in prayer, and then that overflows into our families and our speech and our actions.

And so thank you guys for being in the word and sharing about that.

Where do you find the need to preach the gospel to yourself the most?

Easy question, right?

Yeah, I'm uh some of like an extreme perfectionist with the weirdest stuff.

Um some stuff I don't I don't I don't care at all, and then the other stuff I'm just like down to very minute details.

I want it to look this way.

And it and I've I've watched even in my leadership style, you talk about leadership style, how it's crippled people around me to where they'll walk and be like they'll come up to me like, how do you how do you want the coffee poured or something?

And I'm just like, I want it, I just want it in the cup.

If you can get the coffee in the cup, that's great.

I've had all these different kinds of circumstances of how do you want this to look or this to be or am I doing this right?

And I've noticed that my sense of control and perfectionism has caused people to operate that way, right?

And so when things mess up, I mean, I can just really beat myself up a lot.

And so I have to, one, I have to, it's I have to preach the gospel to myself and that God is ultimately sovereign in all things.

Um and so that that that and this is his church, and that there's nothing that can jeopardize that reality.

And so to trust him more and trust in his sovereignty, and then to trust in his grace and mercy, that it that the health of this organization, the health of my uh family, it's not it's not that I'm I have no role in playing in the health of those things, uh, but it's not completely uh my burden to carry, that Christ has already carried the burden and He He put it to death and He raised a new life, and now all of this is His.

And so I that allows me to more freely walk and live in different ways of not worrying about the if I don't do it in my own strength and my own power and my own whatever, it's not going to be good or it's not gonna be what it could be.

Um, and so I think for me that he gives rest to the weary is something that I constantly have to go back to the gospel for that sense of rest um that he promises.

Yeah.

Cool.

Uh all right.

So uh where do I need to preach the gospel uh in my life?

Uh I'm gonna go to discipline.

Um, how do I discipline my children?

Uh many of you parents out there can uh uh agree with me, discipline is difficult.

Uh many times we lay out the rules, your children will understand the rules, and then the following day they break those rules, and they'll do that for years on end.

So forever.

Forever.

Yeah, forever.

So as a as a father, that is frustrating.

That's that's that is exhausting.

Um, but where do I need the gospel in my life?

Look, I do that to Jesus.

Right?

The Lord laid out uh, you know, let's take the Ten Commandments, for example, or just any uh, you know, he requires perfection.

Okay, so how many times have I gotten that right?

Never, never.

I continue to miss the mark, I continue to struggle with sin, and yet the Lord says, Look, I still love you, I have grace for you.

Because of what my son did on the cross, I can accept you with open arms.

I I need to preach that to myself, because my boys, they don't get it right all the time.

And yet I can have grace for them because Christ had has grace for me.

So, yeah, some sometimes we need to discipline with ice cream.

Because we've all, I mean, if you think about it, you've probably learned more lessons by not getting what you deserved.

At times when you were extended mercy, that stuck in your brain more than when you got what you did deserve for your consequence and action.

And I think the gospel demands sometimes we discipline with ice cream.

Yeah.

Yeah, praise the Lord.

He doesn't give us what we deserve.

Yeah.

Okay, we've got I've got a couple more questions.

Oh, you can't.

You'll have to give my kids ice cream, bro.

You have to give your kids ice cream.

Yeah.

Their favorite flavors.

Here we go.

I got an amen back then.

I don't get many amens in this congregation.

So when I get them.

All right, two more questions, guys.

We can make it a lightning round as well if you'd like.

Um, but um, I definitely want to include this question.

So, what does it look like for you to continually pursue your wife?

Oh, this is because you were married before you were a husband.

So, what that looks like for me is um listening to what she needs.

So when I say that, um we often talk about, I'm sorry, this is kids in the room, but not pursuing her just sexually.

Yep.

Um, but listening to her, her spiritual side, listening to her emotional side, listen to just what she wants to talk about.

Um, she wants me to hold her hand more, she wants me to do this around the house, she wants me to be like this with the kids.

I think that's how you pursue them because they see that you're listening.

Yeah, next.

That's all I think what you mean.

Um, just just pursuing.

Um, I think early on in my uh marriage, my again, I go back to being present and actually engaging.

Um, I just thought that being in that room with my wife was enough.

Um, and you know, I'm a big sports fan, so you know, watching a sports team on TV is not being pursuing my wife, even though I thought that for some weird reason.

Um so just engaging with her, um spending like literally time with her, you know, fate, not just shoulder to shoulder, but face-to-face time.

Sorry, Brian.

Um face-to-face time with her is really important, and that's when you really deeply understand not just um what she desires, but also loving her and caring for her and pursuing her that way.

So, yeah, certainly, certainly time.

Uh that's where I was gonna go, but I would also say affection.

Um, you know, we uh have a lot of demand for our time at our jobs, uh with our families, working on the house.

Um let's not forget affection.

My dad did a great job showing me what that looked like to the point where my brother and sister and I got grossed out.

You know, he'd chase he'd chase my mom around the house and give her a kiss.

And so that's what I do with my wife.

My boys don't like that, but it will serve it will serve them well in the future.

So so, yes, time of day, we need to listen, but there's also physical affection.

Let's not forget that.

Yeah, I think my wife has a very different personality than I have, and so to like sit down and watch a series together does a lot for her, where it might not as much for me.

So learning to adapt to her personality type and do the things again, listening.

Um, and uh I try to tell her a lot.

I remember in our first part of our marriage, we had fights, not fights, but just I would say I say I love you a lot, and she would uh not at times.

Like she could leave the house without saying I love you, and to me that was there's what the world?

And um so now we say it like you know twenty.

Times a day to each other and say it to my kids like crazy.

But yeah, try to take them on dates.

We try to go date nights, we we do uh time together, put the kids to bed, realizing when I think for me, I get frustrated with the amount of time I spend at work versus the amount of waking hours I get with my children.

That's a pretty unbalanced reality in a lot of people's lives.

And so sometimes I come home and I want the kids to stay up longer because I want to see them more, and I have to read her personality of how long she's been with them all day.

She's kind of done, but I'm just starting, and how to balance that at times and be okay with putting the kids to bed early and uh supporting that emotional place that she's in at that point.

And uh, I think we do a pretty good job at at pursuing uh one another as far as that presence and everything you guys said for sure.

Here's something real quick about date nights.

So um we unfortunately we don't have many people who we trust to watch our kids, unfortunately.

Um so what we did was we did day dates.

So we took um the day off of work while the kids were at school or camp or a daycare or whatever, and go out and do whatever you want to do.

So for those who kind of are like in our same boat, day dates are the best thing ever.

Nobody's out in public, you can do whatever you want to do.

So that's awesome.

That is a good idea, yeah.

Those are all good tips.

I hope my husband was taking notes.

He does a good job.

How would you encourage fathers struggling to lead and disciple their families?

And this is our last question.

So I would just say stay at it.

Um marriage is not easy, fathering is not easy, um, but it's well worth it.

Surround yourself with like people, like-minded people, um, other dads who are gonna give you reality, not just you know, people are gonna sugarcoat things.

Um but continue to hit that nail.

Um, trust me, trust me, trust me, it's worth it.

No, I would just say um the struggles that you're going through are not anything new under the sun.

Um sometimes you feel like you're on an island by yourself and the the struggles that you have are unique to you.

So um I would say that just look to your church, look to the body of Christ to come around you and to help you.

Um you know it's easy to get discouraged, but you know, look to Jesus for that helping me.

I I can often uh think I can control it myself or I have all of the answers, but um looking to Jesus, um looking for the Holy Spirit to equip and to guide you is really um what's going to help you the most than trying to do it on your own.

But hey, we're here as a church.

Um the the four of us were up here, but we definitely don't have it together.

Um but please, you know, reach out to your community group, reach out to the men around you that are that love the Lord, uh, and it we're in it together.

I I would say uh the the balance with your time, uh that's a that's a big one.

The majority of my best waking hours I spend working for a company that's not my family.

So those hours, those precious hours before I go to work, those hours when I come back home, before we go to sleep, those are the hours where I have to spend pastoring my family, discipling my boys.

Uh so at the end of the day, when you have the choice to make, well, do I spend another hour here and get this job done?

Or do I say, you know what, I'm gonna, this will be here tomorrow, and go home and spend time with your family.

There's a balancing act there.

Uh, you know, our children will never be this young.

Uh, your wife will never be as young as she is today, uh, but your job will always be there tomorrow.

So I'm not saying how to do that balancing act, but be careful with your time.

I got a lot a lot I could say, but um I'm thinking of some.

One, refuse to compete with screens.

Destroy them if you have to.

Um you have enough to compete with in this world for your children's attention.

Um, refuse to allow a glowing screen to be one of those competitors.

Um lead in repentance and um forgiveness.

When you screw up, be honest about it and and and model that before your children.

Humble yourself to apologize and repent to your own children when you've allowed your temper to get out of control, when you've gone too far in your discipline when you were being um not present and when they needed your attention.

Um, and then thirdly, is um the same Holy Spirit that filled fishermen and day laborers to become world-changing apostles fills you.

And and you, me and you, I don't have a I don't have a seminary degree, I have no formal education in any of this.

Um me and you, we're on the same boat.

We don't, we're not, we're not uh really qualified to do this fatherhood thing, let alone pastor our children and disciple.

Um, but we have one equalizer, and that's the Holy Spirit.

And so you're going to do a horrible job at this.

Uh, but the Holy Spirit in you is going to grow you, mature you, and empower you in ways that you never realized could be to lead your family.

You've got to go with that, not with what you bring to the table, because what I bring to the table is very unsatisfactory and found wanting.

But what the Holy Spirit in me brings to the table is unlimited potential of being able to uh uh fight sin in my family, to disciple them in the Word of God, to lead them well under the headship of Christ, and so you've got to lean on that as well.

But that those are three things I would say.

Thank you.

All right.

Well, that concludes our panel.

Happy Father Day, happy Father's Day, guys.

Uh thank you for sharing and being transparent this morning and showing us um how to love your kids unconditionally, your wife, and how to serve Jesus.