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Walking with God: Lessons from a Pastor's Heart - Chapter 4: Beware of Myths | Pastor Pablo Morales

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  1. Welcome to ECB's weekly sermon podcast. ECB is

  2. an international church in Bangkok, Thailand,

  3. with dozens of nationalities worshiping together.

  4. We invite you to connect with us from wherever

  5. you are through our website ecb .asia or our

  6. mobile app. And now we pray that you are blessed

  7. by this week's sermon. This series of walking

  8. with God was a reflection. on different topics

  9. from our apologetics trip to England. And as

  10. you know, in the previous studies, we have talked

  11. about several of the things that we did. And

  12. we have reflected in lots of different topics.

  13. Some of you wanted to go to the trip. You couldn't

  14. do it. And some of you have asked me, can you

  15. please teach us about it? I want to learn. Can

  16. you show me pictures? I want to see. So that's

  17. why we have spent this month going through some

  18. of the key elements of what we learned. So the

  19. idea is an environment in which we are reflecting

  20. together. Almost as if we were drinking some

  21. coffee together and talking, reflecting. And

  22. in that sense, this series is a little bit different

  23. from others. And what I want you to get from

  24. this study is to beware of myths. Myths, as the

  25. Bible talks about myths, is the idea of false

  26. beliefs. I remember that when I was a kid, I

  27. heard a joke that I find so funny. And it was

  28. about this scientist that was studying fleas.

  29. So he decides to study fleas' behavior, and he

  30. places this little flea on a little glass container,

  31. and he says to the little flea, Flea, jump! And

  32. the flea jumps, boing. So he writes in his notebook,

  33. when the flea is told to jump, it jumps. And

  34. then he decides to remove two legs, ping, ping.

  35. And now he says to the flea, flea, jump. And

  36. the flea goes, boing. So he's surprised and he

  37. writes, you know, when the flea has only four

  38. legs and is told to jump, it jumps. And then

  39. he decides, to try again and goes, ping, ping.

  40. And now he says, flea, jump. And the flea, very

  41. weakly goes, ping. Just a little jump. He's surprised.

  42. So he writes, when the flea has only two legs

  43. and is told to jump, it jumps. And then he gets

  44. curious. So he decides to do it one more time.

  45. It goes, ping, ping. And says, little flea, jump.

  46. And nothing happens. And now he's more curious.

  47. So he says a little bit louder, little flea,

  48. jump! And nothing happens. It doesn't move. So

  49. he decides to say one more time, but very loud,

  50. little flea, jump! And nothing happens. So he

  51. writes conclusion. When the flea has no legs,

  52. it becomes deaf. Told you it was funny. That's

  53. a myth. It sounds like it's true, but it's not.

  54. It could be based on good observations, but wrong

  55. conclusions. And it's funny when it's a joke,

  56. but it's not funny when we build our lives on

  57. a myth, cultures on a myth. And what is interesting

  58. is that the Apostle Paul talks about this very

  59. clearly to us, followers of Jesus. He says to

  60. Timothy, very specifically about this topic.

  61. Now, Timothy was his apprentice. We met him a

  62. couple of studies ago. Timothy was a young believer

  63. that worked with the Apostle Paul. He went into

  64. his third missionary trip together. And then

  65. the Apostle Paul, when he returns to Jerusalem,

  66. enters the last stage of his ministry. He's going

  67. to go from Jerusalem now. He's going to go in

  68. prison. Eventually, he's going to end up in Rome.

  69. And when he is in prison, the Apostle Paul will

  70. write two letters to Timothy. That's how close

  71. they were. And we have those two letters in our

  72. Bible, New Testament, 1 and 2 Timothy. And if

  73. you go to chapter 4 of both letters, what is

  74. interesting is that the same chapters, chapter

  75. 4, has the same warning. In 1 Timothy chapter

    1 Timothy 4 chapter mention

  76. 4, he tells Paul, he tells Timothy, the Spirit

  77. clearly says that in later times, some will abandon

  78. the faith. Why? Some followers of Jesus will

  79. abandon the faith. Why? Well, they will follow

  80. deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

  81. Oh, he says, there's going to be spiritual oppression

  82. against the Christian faith because there's going

  83. to be false teaching that is going to originate

  84. in darkness. And that false teaching is going

  85. to deceive some followers of Jesus. Such teachings

  86. come through hypocritical liars whose consciences

  87. have been seared as with a hot iron. There's

  88. going to be people Who are going to be used,

  89. not by God, but by the enemy to introduce deceptions.

  90. And those deceptions are going to cause some

  91. people to abandon the faith. That's the warning

  92. in the first letter. Very clear. False beliefs

  93. will infiltrate and you have to be aware of it.

  94. But in the second letter to Timothy, also chapter

  95. 4. He says it a little bit more extensively,

  96. and this is what he says. In the presence of

  97. God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living

  98. and the dead, and in view of his appearing and

  99. his kingdom, I give you this charge. Oh, wow,

  100. that sounds pretty heavy. It's like you open

  101. the letter, you know, it's the last letter he

  102. will ever write. And now you open it and it says,

  103. Timothy, this is not a greeting of. Hey, Timothy,

  104. how are you doing? It's like, Timothy, in the

  105. presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will judge

  106. the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing

  107. and his kingdom, I'm going to give you this charge.

  108. It's like, oh, I better sit down and start reading

  109. this thing, because this is not just a funny,

  110. how are you doing text. What is it? Timothy,

  111. preach the word. Be prepared in season and out

  112. of season. Correct, rebuke, encourage, but do

  113. it with great patience and very careful instruction.

  114. And I'm going to tell you why. For the time will

  115. come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.

  116. Instead, to suit their own desires, They will

  117. gather around them a great number of teachers

  118. to say what their itching ears want to hear.

  119. Let me read that section again. Timothy, you

  120. have to teach the word and do it carefully because

  121. there's going to be a time. And the time is coming.

  122. When people will not put up with sound doctrine,

  123. instead to suit their own desires, they will

  124. gather around them a great number of teachers

  125. to say what their itching ears want to hear.

  126. And they will turn their ears away from truth

  127. and turn aside to what? Myths. The time is coming

  128. when myths, not truth, are going to become so

  129. popular because lots of people are going to believe

  130. it and lots of teachers are going to be teaching

  131. it. And not only will it be popular, but it will

  132. be persuasive because all these teachers and

  133. all these people believe it, so it must be. True,

  134. maybe the flea is deaf. And because it's popular,

  135. persuasive, people will start feeling the pressure

  136. to believe it. Because if I'm surrounded by people

  137. who believe it and I'm the only one that doesn't,

  138. that's hard. But Timothy, Beware of myths. The

  139. time is going to come where people won't care

  140. about truth anymore. But you, you be different,

  141. Timothy. You keep your head in all situations.

  142. Just because it's popular doesn't make it true.

  143. You keep your head in all situations. And if

  144. it becomes hard because you feel like a fish

  145. swimming against the current, endure hardship.

  146. Do the work of an evangelist. Discharge all the

  147. duties of your ministry. Timothy, you stand for

  148. truth. And sometimes it's going to be hard. But

  149. truth matters. As for me, I'm already being poured

  150. out like a drink offering. I'm at the end. You're

  151. at the beginning. The time for my departure is

  152. near. I can feel it. I have fought the good fight.

  153. I have finished the race and I have kept the

  154. faith. But remember, some won't keep it because

  155. of the myths. Now there's in store for me the

  156. crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous

  157. judge, will award to me on that day and only

  158. to me. but also to all who have longed for his

  159. appearing. And this is the section where the

  160. Apostle Paul repeats the concern and the warning,

  161. beware of myths. Myths in this context is this

  162. Greek word mythoi, which is a false belief. It's

  163. a false worldview. It's a false structure of

  164. belief system that is faulty. And we followers

  165. of Jesus are called by the apostle himself to

  166. be aware of that because at some moments you

  167. will be in that journey of discerning truth from

  168. myth. And that journey is not always clear and

  169. sometimes it is wrestling. And the sad thing

  170. is that it will cause many people to be deceived.

  171. Many people to walk away from the faith and many

  172. people will be then harmed because of it. And

  173. I have gotten to meet some of those people that

  174. walked away from the faith only to come back

  175. later to the Lord saying, I was duped. I was

  176. deceived. Now I really know the truth. And it's

  177. hard because that time of being away from the

  178. Lord, away from the faith, could be years. Could

  179. be decades. Beware of myths. And just to give

  180. you a glimpse of some of this, see the contrast

  181. that the Apostle Paul talked about to Timothy.

  182. Truth is... Given by the Holy Spirit because

  183. the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. And he's

  184. the one that inspired the scriptures. So if you're

  185. walking with God, you're walking in close intimacy

  186. with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, truth will matter

  187. to you. And sound doctrine will matter. The teaching

  188. has to be biblical. It has to be right. I'm not

  189. just going to give it away because it sounds

  190. right. It's a biblical. Sound doctrine matters.

  191. And that will have the effect of setting you

  192. free because truth sets us free. And it will

  193. strengthen your walk of faith, your walk with

  194. God. But myth, on the other hand, it does not

  195. come from the Holy Spirit. It comes from deceiving

  196. spirits, says Paul. It's a false narrative. It's

  197. a myth. It's not really true. It may sound true,

  198. but it's not. And it's going to deceive people.

  199. And you will know the outcome. It's not from

  200. God because he will take you away from the Lord,

  201. not closer to him. Beware of myths. And from

  202. the beginning, from the time of the Apostle Paul,

  203. even to the time of our time, two areas that

  204. are constantly under this space of different

  205. ideologies trying to compete with biblical narrative.

  206. It's the idea of origins and the idea of identity.

  207. It was true for the Apostle Paul as it is for

  208. us. Let me give you just a glimpse of this in

  209. three passages as I read them. The first one

  210. is the beginning of the Gospel of John. If you

  211. are reading John, if you are a follower of Jesus,

  212. this is what John starts saying. Let me read

  213. it two times. First time now. In the beginning

  214. was the Word. And the word was with God. And

  215. the word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

  216. Through him all things were made. Without him

  217. nothing was made that has been made. In him was

  218. life. And that life was the light of all mankind.

  219. And the light shines in the darkness. And the

  220. darkness has not overcome it. You continue reading

  221. chapter one of John and you will realize, oh,

  222. he's talking about Jesus. The word became flesh

  223. and lived among us and we have seen his glory.

  224. And he starts introducing who Jesus is in the

  225. gospel of John. So let me read it again, but

  226. I'm going to replace the word, the word by the

  227. word Jesus. So that the meaning becomes a little

  228. bit clearer as you're reading it. In the beginning

  229. was Jesus. And Jesus was with God. And Jesus

  230. was God. And Jesus was with God in the beginning.

  231. By the way, this is one of the reasons why we

  232. believe in the Trinity. Jesus is God. God is

  233. not Jesus. God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. But

  234. Jesus is God. The Father is God. The Holy Spirit

  235. is God. Jesus was with God at the beginning.

  236. And he himself was God. Jesus was with God in

  237. the beginning. And through Jesus, all things

  238. were made. Without Jesus, nothing was made that

  239. has been made. In Jesus was life. And that life

  240. was the light of all mankind. The light shines

  241. in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome

  242. it. Truth or myth? Was there a beginning? And

  243. did Jesus create? And Jesus is God? And he came

  244. therefore to the world he created to save us

  245. and redeem us to himself. Truth or myth? You

  246. see, if you're a follower of Jesus, you say,

  247. well, this is true. Some people will look at

  248. you and say, you're believing in a myth. If I'm

  249. a follower of Jesus, I have to realize that the

  250. Bible says Jesus is creator. Therefore I was

  251. created. We humans were created by God. And Jesus

  252. is God. And through him everything was created.

  253. Nothing would exist without him. That was created.

  254. I believe that. Because it's there. And I believe

  255. in Jesus. And I want to agree with everything

  256. that Jesus says. And in the gospel, Jesus speaks.

  257. And one day, Jesus is approached by the religious

  258. leaders and they ask him a question about divorce.

  259. And Jesus answers to them using the scriptures,

  260. the various scriptures that Paul is telling Timothy

  261. that he has to teach well. And Jesus answers

  262. that question with this answer. He tells the

  263. people at the beginning of creation, God, Made

  264. them. What? Male and. Female. At the very beginning

  265. of creation. Haven't you read this? God made

  266. them male and female. And for this reason. A

  267. man. Will leave his father. And mother. And be

  268. united to his wife. Not to his partner. But to

  269. his. Wife. His. Wife. And the two will become.

  270. One flesh. So there are no longer two, but one

  271. flesh. Marriage is a change of identity. From

  272. two, now we are one. And this means that there

  273. was a beginning, wasn't it? And in that beginning,

  274. God created, didn't he? And at the beginning

  275. of that creation, he created humans, didn't he?

  276. And he created us. Male and female, didn't he?

  277. And he is the one that designed the idea of marriage

  278. to be the union for life between a male and a

  279. female coming together and becoming one flesh.

  280. That is our understanding of marriage and that

  281. is our understanding of gender. Why? Because

  282. Jesus said it. And he's quoting Genesis. Hmm.

  283. True or myth? Ah, now you're getting a little

  284. bit uncomfortable. Beware of myths. They will

  285. sound popular. Lots of people will believe it.

  286. But I can tell you something, the flea is not

  287. deaf. And the Apostle Paul, It's warning us that

  288. we're going to be hearing myths and we have to

  289. be careful that we really pay attention to the

  290. scriptures. Not only I want to agree with what

  291. Jesus says, but I also want to agree with what

  292. the apostles taught. If the apostles taught it,

  293. I want to agree with them. And I'm not trying

  294. to simplify hermeneutics. I know that biblical

  295. interpretation sometimes is complex. There's

  296. the Greek, the Hebrew, the translation, the nuances,

  297. etc., etc. I understand that. But within that

  298. context, I want to agree with Jesus and with

  299. the apostles. And there's a moment in which the

  300. apostle Peter is warning us about false teaching.

  301. And he says, look, there will be people that

  302. will deliberately forget. That happened a long

  303. time ago. What? Well, they will deliberately

  304. forget that long ago, by God's word, the heavens

  305. came into being and the earth was formed out

  306. of water and by water. And by these waters also

  307. the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.

  308. Wait. Did God speak? And things were created

  309. by him just speaking? Yes. And at the beginning,

  310. the earth was covered with water? Yes. And the

  311. ancient world was destroyed, deluged by water.

  312. And just as it happened then, Is going to happen

  313. in the future. By the same word. That created

  314. the heavens and the earth. The same word. That

  315. destroyed that ancient world with the water.

  316. The same word. The present heavens and earth.

  317. Are reserved. For fire. Being kept for the day

  318. of judgment. And destruction of the ungodly.

  319. There's a future judgment coming and the earth

  320. will be destroyed by fire? Yes, just as it was

  321. destroyed by water before. By the very word that

  322. God spoke. Wow. True or myth? Did God really

  323. speak and things came into being? Just like that?

  324. Ah, you see what I mean? There are things the

  325. Bible teaches that sometimes we are struggling

  326. with because now we have an abundance of teachers

  327. teaching us things that we want to hear. And

  328. without realizing it, we can turn into myths.

  329. And myths are popular. They're persuasive, but

  330. they're not true. And therefore, my job as a

  331. follower of Jesus, and so is your job as a follower

  332. of Jesus, is to make sure that we create environments

  333. where we can engage with truth and discern it

  334. and wrestle with it. Because whatever we end

  335. up concluding, we want to make sure that it is

  336. biblical and true. And because I believe these

  337. things, all these passages that I read today,

  338. I believe them because they are clear. And for

  339. me to try to dissect them and reorganize the

  340. words and give them a whole different meaning,

  341. it makes me uncomfortable because it feels like

  342. I'm trying to manipulate the scriptures to make

  343. them say what I want to hear them say. And that's

  344. the wrestling that we find ourselves in. Have

  345. you been there? Have you questioned in moments,

  346. I wonder if that's really true. Am I being deceived

  347. or is that really true? I sit in the Bible, but

  348. did that really happen? And now in that space

  349. of tension is a reality of the walk with God.

  350. The walk with God at moments will require that

  351. we discern truth from myth. And sometimes that

  352. space is going to be Disorienting. And because

  353. I believe these things, I remember that since

  354. my kids were little, we would spend time reading

  355. the scriptures and then there are people that

  356. have published books with beautiful illustrations

  357. and stories about the Bible. And this was one

  358. of them, Jesus Storybook Bible. And we read it

  359. to all of our kids. nighttime, and we'll go one

  360. by one, chapter by chapter, retelling the story

  361. from Genesis all the way to the life of Jesus.

  362. Creation, the fall, the history of salvation,

  363. Jesus coming, and then Jesus redeeming his people.

  364. So it's, of course, with creative license. It's

  365. not word by word, but it's summarizing the story

  366. of the Bible. with beautiful illustrations and

  367. very poetic writing. So our kids grew up hearing

  368. the word through this. Now that we were in England,

  369. we went to the British Museum, British Library,

  370. engaged with biblical archaeology, with textual

  371. criticism. And then we also went to Charles Darwin's

  372. home to engage with his life. I had a couple

  373. of science sessions with a scientist who is the

  374. president and CEO of Creation Ministries International.

  375. And we engaged in a little bit of this space.

  376. So when we went to Charles Darwin's home, I bought

  377. a couple of books, but one of them was a children's

  378. book. And I started reading it, and I thought,

  379. oh, wow, this reminds me of the book I was reading

  380. my kids. Not because it's the same content. but

  381. because it's targeting children. Would I buy

  382. this book and then start telling my children

  383. this story? And it starts with volcanoes, that

  384. there's gases, there's nothing that exists, there's

  385. no life on earth. It doesn't start with the world

  386. covered by water. No, no. There are volcanoes

  387. and gases and no life. And from the very beginning,

  388. you realize, okay, these two stories are not

  389. compatible. And I remember reading when I was

  390. doing my doctorate, the book Sapiens, History

  391. of Humankind. And from the very first page, it's

  392. like, wait, this version of history is not compatible

  393. with what I believe. The framework, at least,

  394. of it. And that's when you start realizing that

  395. there's a narrative that is different from the

  396. scripture's narrative. About origins, about where

  397. we come from, about where the universe comes

  398. from. And therefore, as I'm engaging in those

  399. spaces, I have to start asking, truth or myth?

  400. Am I believing a myth, and maybe that's the truth,

  401. and I'm being deceived and ignorant? Or, this

  402. is the truth, and that's the myth. How do I know?

  403. How about origins, for instance? One of the most

  404. dominant frameworks of origins that we know today

  405. is known as Darwinian evolution, the origin of

  406. the species. And that's why we did this part

  407. of the trip, to really understand it better.

  408. And if you are a parent that has children who

  409. are wrestling with some of these questions, then

  410. this study is for you. If you're on a journey

  411. in which you're wrestling with some of these

  412. things, and you want to be an educated Christian,

  413. not an ignorant, just Bible -thumper, you know,

  414. then this study is for you. It's a space to engage

  415. with important questions. So when we went to

  416. Charles Darwin's home, this is the home from

  417. the backyard, beautiful place, amazing area,

  418. very intelligent guy, lots of good studies. But

  419. several of the things that he taught, which have

  420. become popular and mainstream beliefs today,

  421. they originated in his writings. And this is

  422. the statue that is right there at the main stairwell

  423. of the Museum of Natural History. And what we

  424. know from Darwin is that he had a worldview on

  425. things that he asserted. So one of them is that

  426. he lived in a time in which the scientific establishment

  427. believed that the universe was eternal. No beginning,

  428. no end, no big bang, nothing like that. For about

  429. 300 years, the scientific establishment believed

  430. and taught that the universe was eternal. Because

  431. the idea that it would have a beginning sounded

  432. too much like... Yeah, the Bible. So the idea

  433. that the universe would have a beginning was

  434. not something that people will entertain. So

  435. he believed that during that time. And actually

  436. that belief continued until the time of Einstein.

  437. Einstein believed the universe was eternal until

  438. the evidence showed him something different and

  439. he changed his belief. But that's how recent

  440. that belief was. He believed that the Bible was

  441. a myth, that salvation by faith in Jesus is what

  442. he called a damnable doctrine, that Christianity

  443. is a myth. He did not know biochemistry. He did

  444. not know about DNA. It had not been discovered

  445. yet. He did not understand mutations. He didn't

  446. understand how they worked. And he did not know

  447. about epigenetics, how the genes turn on and

  448. off different functions and traits that we know

  449. just from recent. Scientific studies. This was

  450. the framework that he came from. And he wrote

  451. many of these things. I have mentioned some of

  452. those in the previous studies, but I want to

  453. show them to you in case you were not in those.

  454. He writes in his autobiography, I have gradually

  455. come by this time to see that the Old Testament

  456. from its false history of the world was no more

  457. to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindus

  458. or the beliefs of any barbarian. The Bible is

  459. not true. The Old Testament is not true. Jesus

  460. is not true. You cannot trust the Bible. It's

  461. a myth. And not only that, he says, I can indeed

  462. hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity

  463. to be true. It is a damnable doctrine. For him,

  464. the idea of Jesus being the word at the beginning

  465. and becoming flesh and having to believe in him

  466. to be saved from your sins. was nonsense, something

  467. that needed to be condemned. And then he writes

  468. in a letter to a friend who was a famous botanist

  469. during that time, and he was the head of the

  470. Kew Gardens, beautiful botanical garden. Have

  471. you never been there before? Take a trip, if

  472. you are in England, go to the Kew Gardens. Beautiful

  473. place. But it is in this letter that he starts

  474. writing about his ideas about origin. And you

  475. know, something funny happened because I was

  476. doing some of my research and reading this letter

  477. in a moment when I was sitting next to my wife

  478. and I'm using my phone to start reading the letter

  479. and she looks over and she says, What is that

  480. dear hooker? So I had a little bit of explanation

  481. to do. And because that's the last name. J .D.

  482. Hooker. And that was also an English lesson for

  483. me on that day. But this is what he writes to

  484. him. He says. As his friend. But if. and I know

  485. this is a big if, but what if we could conceive

  486. in some warm little pond with all sorts of ammonia

  487. and phosphoric salts, light, heat, electricity,

  488. et cetera, all these things present, that a protein

  489. compound was chemically formed, ready to undergo

  490. still more complex changes. At the present day,

  491. such matter would be instantly devoured, but

  492. at the beginning, right? Or absorbed, which would

  493. not have been the case before living creatures

  494. were formed. If that happened at the very beginning,

  495. a warm little pond somewhere, and all these things

  496. happening, maybe the first protein that became

  497. the first cell, just like that, by accident,

  498. maybe. And I know that's a big what if. And this

  499. is where that idea came from. And that reminded

  500. me of the book, the children's book that I told

  501. you about. Because that's how it starts at the

  502. beginning. Let me read it from the screen here

  503. because I cannot read it from there. But it says,

  504. then in the deep dark ocean, you are the kids

  505. now, okay? Then in the deep dark ocean, something

  506. amazing happened. In warm water, near underwater

  507. volcanoes called black smokers, some tiny, tiny

  508. floating bits came together. And these bits were

  509. so small that you couldn't possibly see them.

  510. They could have dropped from space or bubbled

  511. up from under the seabed, and they form the beginning

  512. of life on earth. That's how life started. Not

  513. because there's someone that is life in himself

  514. called Jesus. No. Just somewhere in the ocean,

  515. tiny things. And these tiny things, then the

  516. first life was just an incredibly small, shapeless

  517. blob. And we call that shapeless blob a cell.

  518. And as time passed, cells lived together making

  519. sticky, slimy mats that grew into mounds as big

  520. as pillows. Lots of cells together now. Some

  521. cells started using sunlight, water, and gas

  522. in the air to help them grow. Cells multiplied

  523. into billions. And so the seas clouded with lots

  524. of new kinds of life. Some cells puffed out an

  525. invisible gas called oxygen. And that's where

  526. oxygen comes from. Miraculously filling the air.

  527. which completely changed the air and even the

  528. color of the planet, and circling the globe,

  529. the oxygen turned black rock shades of yellow,

  530. red, and brown. Even so slowly, over millions

  531. of years, cells got more complicated, and they

  532. filled with special parts that helped them do

  533. new things. Some began to live together, even

  534. inside each other. As the air filled with oxygen,

  535. some cells began to use it to grow and grow.

  536. So this new gas changed living things forever.

  537. Cells grew into all kinds of weird and wonderful

  538. shapes and sizes. And some of these became the

  539. first animals alive on earth really began to

  540. get going. It just took a few million years to

  541. get to this point. I'm a theologian. I studied

  542. biology and chemistry in high school. That was

  543. my major. So I'm not really a scientist. So maybe

  544. there's something I don't understand. Maybe Darwin

  545. was right and this book is telling the truth.

  546. And I have to reinterpret it how I read John

  547. 1 and Genesis. Or, It's something I do not know?

  548. What is it? I want to know truth. Well, so I

  549. remember that one of the most loud and vocal

  550. scientists who was promoting this worldview is

  551. Richard Dawkins. He wrote the book, The God Delusion.

  552. And actually he was interviewed in a documentary

  553. called Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed by a

  554. Jewish -American guy, famous, his name is Ben

  555. Stein. And he goes and he does this documentary

  556. to understand this idea of intelligent design

  557. and evolution and everything. So I went back

  558. to that documentary to maybe, maybe Dawkins could

  559. give me some insight on this. Because I want

  560. to know true. So listen to the interview with

  561. me for a second and see what we learn from the

  562. experts on this topic. Hello, Professor Dawkins.

  563. How are you? I'm Ben Stein. I'm just sorry to

  564. keep you waiting. How are you? Fine, thank you.

  565. You have written that God is a psychotic delinquent

  566. invented by mad, deluded people. No, I didn't

  567. say quite that. I said something rather better

  568. than that. Oh, well, please tell us what you

  569. said. Please tell us what you said. Well, I would

  570. have to read it from the book. No, please. The

  571. God of the Old Testament is arguably the most

  572. unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous

  573. and proud of it. a petty, unjust, unforgiving

  574. control freak, a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic

  575. cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist,

  576. infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential,

  577. megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously

  578. malevolent bully. So that's what you think of

  579. God? Yeah. How about if people believed in a

  580. God of infinite lovingness and kindness and forgiveness

  581. and generosity, sort of like the modern -day

  582. God? Why spoil it for them? Why not just let

  583. them have their fun and enjoy it? I mean, I don't

  584. want to spoil anything for anybody. I write a

  585. book. People can read it if they want to. I believe

  586. that it is a liberating thing to free yourself

  587. from primitive... So religion is a primitive

  588. superstition? Oh, I think it is, yes. So you

  589. believe it's liberating to tell people that there

  590. is no God? I think a lot of people, when they

  591. give up God, feel a great sense of release. And

  592. freedom. Why do you think that? I mean, what's

  593. your dad? What's your scientist? What's your

  594. dad? I think, well, I've had a lot of letters

  595. saying that. There are 8 billion people in the

  596. world, Dr. Dawkins. How many letters have you

  597. had? No, I haven't done that. That's quite true.

  598. Professor Dawkins seemed so convinced that God

  599. doesn't exist. that I wondered if you would be

  600. willing to put a number on it. Well, it's hard

  601. to put a figure on it, but I mean, I'd put it

  602. as something like, you know, 99 % against or

  603. something. Well, how do you know it's 99 %? I

  604. don't. You're saying not 97%. No, you asked me

  605. to put a figure on it, and I'm not comfortable

  606. putting a figure on it. I think it's, I just

  607. think it's very unlikely. What? But you couldn't

  608. put a number on it? No, of course not. So it

  609. could be 49%. Well, it would be, I mean, I think

  610. it's... It's unlikely, and it's quite far from

  611. 50%. How do you know? I don't know. I mean, I

  612. put an argument in the book. Well, then who did

  613. create the heavens and the earth? Why do you

  614. use the word who? You see, you immediately beg

  615. the question by using the word who. Well, then

  616. how did it get created? Well, by a very slow

  617. process. Well, how did it start? Nobody knows

  618. how it started. We know the kind of event that

  619. it must have been. We know the sort of event

  620. that must have happened for the origin of life.

  621. What was that? It was the origin of the first

  622. self -replicating molecule. Right. How did that

  623. happen? I told you we don't know. So you have

  624. no idea how it started? No, no, nor has anybody.

  625. Nor has anyone else. What do you think is the

  626. possibility that intelligent design might turn

  627. out to be the answer to some issues in genetics

  628. or in evolution? It could come about in the following

  629. way. It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere

  630. in the universe, a civilization evolved by probably

  631. some kind of Darwinian means to a very, very

  632. high level of technology and designed a form

  633. of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet.

  634. Now, that is a possibility and an intriguing

  635. possibility. And I suppose it's possible that

  636. you might find evidence for that if you look

  637. at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology,

  638. you might find a signature of some sort of designer.

  639. Wait a second. Richard Dawkins thought intelligent

  640. design might be a legitimate pursuit? And that

  641. designer could well be a higher intelligence

  642. from elsewhere in the universe. But that higher

  643. intelligence would itself have had to have come

  644. about by some explicable or ultimately explicable

  645. process. It couldn't have just jumped into existence

  646. spontaneously. That's the point. So Professor

  647. Dawkins was not against intelligent design. Just

  648. certain types of designers, such as God, said

  649. that they... I'm going to pause there. If you

  650. haven't watched the documentary, I highly encourage

  651. you to expel no intelligence allowed. But, okay,

  652. I get it then. So nobody knows? But maybe aliens

  653. planted the first... And on the other hand, I

  654. have God who says, I was there. I'm your savior.

  655. I created you. I was with God at the beginning.

  656. Which one? True or myth? You see, as we are walking

  657. in this journey of discerning things, we have

  658. to ask these questions. Because once you realize

  659. that it comes from a worldview, an assumption,

  660. that the God of the Bible is all these words

  661. that are so offensive, and yet, I know the truth,

  662. and I'm going to tell you. It makes me uneasy

  663. to try to take that worldview to start interpreting

  664. the Bible through those eyes. Beware of myths.

  665. There's one more section that it was part of

  666. the intriguing experience of being in England,

  667. which was going to the Museum of Natural History

  668. because we are there. And we're going to this

  669. area that there's a huge blue whale. You can

  670. see the skeleton. Huge room. As big as this room,

  671. perhaps. And you can see the skeleton and everything.

  672. And that's when soon you realize that the belief

  673. is that these whales actually evolved through

  674. millions of years from actually land animals,

  675. mammals. And where did the idea come from? Well,

  676. the idea comes from Darwin himself in his book

  677. on the origin of species. He had a friend that

  678. was describing how he saw a bear swimming with

  679. the mouth open trying to eat insects. And so

  680. he starts thinking, you know, millions of years,

  681. low process, natural selection, mutations, all

  682. this stuff. And he says, I can see no difficulty

  683. in a race of bears being rendered by natural

  684. selection more and more aquatic in their structure

  685. and habits. With larger and larger mouths, till

  686. a creature was produced as monstrous as a whale.

  687. So he starts imagining, maybe whales evolved

  688. from bears. Because I can see the bears swimming,

  689. so maybe after millions of years, develop a little

  690. bit something more, then a little something more,

  691. and a little something more, until it became

  692. that. And that is something that he was ridiculed

  693. at the beginning in the first edition of his

  694. book, so he removed that completely from the

  695. second edition of the book. But that took off,

  696. and that's why they show in museums today that

  697. whales evolved from these animals. And actually,

  698. it's a specific kind of dog type of animal that

  699. they say. So among all of these supposed transition

  700. forms, there's one particular one that is very

  701. interesting. It's called the Rhodocytus. And

  702. the Rhodocytus is the first one that's supposed

  703. to be the link between the... a land animal,

  704. and the tail of the whale because it's the first

  705. one that developed a tail. But I discovered something

  706. that is like, it leaves you speechless. This

  707. is a short video. It's an interview with a guy

  708. who actually discovered this fossil and presented

  709. it and published it. And look at what he says.

  710. Modern whale -type structures in Rhodocetus.

  711. There are not many modifications from Rhodocetus

  712. to the modern whale other than changes in size

  713. of the structures. When this video series was

  714. being filmed on location at the University of

  715. Michigan in Ann Arbor, the executive producer

  716. noticed a discrepancy between museum drawings

  717. of Rhodocetus and the fossils. The reconstruction

  718. of Rhodocetus had a whale fluke, but there were

  719. no fossils of the tail to confirm this. Dr. Phil

  720. Gingrich, the scientist responsible for the discovery

  721. and reconstruction of Rhodocetus, was questioned

  722. how he knew there was a whale fluke on Rhodocetus,

  723. since that part of the fossil was missing. What

  724. was the reasoning that the scientists think there

  725. was a fluke on Rhodocetus? based on the other

  726. pieces of anatomy? Well, I told you we don't

  727. have the tail in Rhodocetus, so we don't know

  728. for sure whether it had a ball vertebra indicating

  729. a fluke or not. So I speculated it might have

  730. had a fluke. Scientist Gingrich also acknowledged

  731. that the flippers were drawn on the diagram without

  732. these fossils. Now, he does not believe this

  733. animal had flippers. Again, his answer was surprising,

  734. since the museum diagrams had flippers on Rhodocetus.

  735. Now, since then, we've found the forelimbs, the

  736. hands, and the front arm, the arms, in other

  737. words, of Rhodocetus. And we understand that

  738. it doesn't have the kind of arms that can be

  739. spread out like flippers are on a whale. And

  740. if you don't have flippers, I don't think you

  741. can have a fluke tail and really powered swimming.

  742. And so I now doubt that Rhodocetus would have

  743. had a flint tail. Many experts consider whales

  744. to be the best fossil evidence for evolution,

  745. but are unaware of these discrepancies. Opponents

  746. of evolution contend that whale evolution is

  747. nothing more than hopeful supposition. If museum

  748. diagrams are redrawn and corrected for various

  749. discrepancies, opponents argue that whale evolution

  750. is non -existent. So you made up the tale because

  751. you assumed it had to be there even though it

  752. wasn't? Yeah. And then you forgot to tell the

  753. museum? They will accumulate teachers to tell

  754. them exactly what they want to hear. That is

  755. a sign of myth that the Apostle Paul wrote about.

  756. I'm not trying to persuade you because I know

  757. that within Christian circles there are so many

  758. different views on these things. But what I'm

  759. trying to do is to remind you of the warning

  760. that the Apostle Paul gave us. There's going

  761. to be myths that are going to replace truth.

  762. And when a scientist comes to her career and

  763. she has to take a walk because she has to feel

  764. that now I have to choose between religion or

  765. science, they cannot go together. That is the

  766. crisis that the myth has created. Because science,

  767. from its inception, was compatible with Christian

  768. worldview. It was not incompatible, but it has

  769. become because of some of these ideologies. So

  770. a person can feel very alone in this journey

  771. because whether the person is a scientist, like

  772. many of them have started questioning some of

  773. these assumptions of materialism that they grew

  774. up with or went to college and learned from,

  775. the experience can be very lonely because am

  776. I the only one that is doubting these things?

  777. Am I the only one that is struggling with these

  778. things? What about dissent? And what I have discovered

  779. is that there's a whole growing sector of scientists

  780. that have walked away from this ideology, Darwinian

  781. evolution, as an explanation of the origin of

  782. species. Some of them, not all of them, but some

  783. of them have become Christians, Bible -believing.

  784. Others have just become open agnostics. There's

  785. a whole growing group of scientists that are

  786. saying this does not match what we know to be

  787. true today from the science that we have today.

  788. And it's important that we know that. I'm not

  789. going to spend much time on this, but I want

  790. to mention it to you in case you are in that

  791. journey in which you want to learn more about

  792. these things. One of them is the book Darwin's

  793. Black Box, because that was the first attempt.

  794. That was clearly mentioned from Michael Behe.

  795. He's a scientist who talked about, look, the

  796. cell is a very complicated thing. And you have

  797. all these machines that are irreducible complexity.

  798. There's no way that they can be explained by

  799. natural processes that are completely random.

  800. There are machines at the cellular level. He

  801. has videos on YouTube called The Secrets of the

  802. Cell. Amazing videos. You can watch them with

  803. your kids. to really teach you about what the

  804. cell really is like and why people that are non

  805. -Christians talk about intelligent design because

  806. the idea of intelligence behind these designs

  807. is so loud. Also, there's Stephen Mayer. He's

  808. a very intellectual... guy that writes about

  809. these topics on intelligent design. He has written

  810. some very good books. If you are more like the

  811. intellectual type, I would highly recommend reading

  812. these books. They are not religious. They are

  813. purely scientist books. And he mentions the issues

  814. that now Darwinian evolution is facing and materialistic

  815. worldview is facing because there is a beginning.

  816. Now we know the universe is not eternal. The

  817. universe is finely tuned. There's biological

  818. information that precedes formation. So a cell

  819. being born out of electricity and smoke and all

  820. of these different things just doesn't fly. It

  821. doesn't happen that way. Information precedes

  822. formation. Also, he talks about the Cambrian

  823. explosion, how life appears in the geology all

  824. at once, not slowly through processes. And there's

  825. life fossils that have complex life in them.

  826. The eye appears immediately from early forms.

  827. How do you explain those things unless there's

  828. a designer? Today, we have the problem of dinosaur

  829. bones that have tissue and cells in them. which

  830. defies the idea that dinosaurs were actually

  831. millions of years old. Today we understand that

  832. mutations do not create new information, they

  833. destroy information. And we understand also that

  834. the changes of mechanisms that happen of creatures

  835. adapting to the environment is not because of

  836. the environment per se, but it's written in their

  837. DNA. The DNA has already built in the instructions

  838. to turn on and turn off different features depending

  839. on the environment. So a dog or a bear does not

  840. become a whale. It's written in their DNA. These

  841. are things that scientists are writing seriously

  842. about today. There's these great documentaries,

  843. universe design, produced by a former atheist

  844. that became a Christian. He was a filmmaker,

  845. and he realized people need to know these things,

  846. so he created this documentary. If you were to

  847. watch only one documentary, I would go to that

  848. one. But you have to pay for it because it's

  849. not for free right now. Darwin, The Voyage That

  850. Changed the World is an amazing documentary.

  851. It talks about actually what Darwin actually

  852. experienced on his trip. And then Evolution's

  853. Achilles Heel is a group of scientists that come

  854. and tell you the summary of what are the issues

  855. that scientists are experiencing today that defy

  856. the idea of evolution. And finally, there are

  857. ministries that have become established by groups

  858. of scientists from lots of different fields.

  859. One of them is the Institute of Christian Research,

  860. which is established in Dallas. They're a growing

  861. ministry. And also the ICM, the CMI Creation

  862. Ministry International, which is an international

  863. organization with scientists. They have websites,

  864. they have documentaries, they have articles written

  865. by scientists who do not believe what Darwin

  866. said, but do believe what the Bible says. It's

  867. amazing to see that there are serious scientists

  868. writing all of these things today. Beware of

  869. myths. And if you have not taken time to reason

  870. through these things, I'm here to simply invite

  871. you into that journey. Wrestle with these things.

  872. Because whatever happens, do not let myths take

  873. you away from the faith. You don't have to choose

  874. between God and science. Science will point you

  875. to God. So your journey is going to take you

  876. through different phases. Maybe you're ignorant.

  877. You don't understand these things. They don't

  878. matter to you. Fine. Maybe you're feeling the

  879. pressure of people. Everybody believes it and

  880. you feel the pressure to conform. Or it sounds

  881. so convincing that you are accepting things that

  882. you wouldn't have accepted before. Or you feel

  883. isolated because you're the only one that believes

  884. differently. Or you are in the science field,

  885. your career, and you feel that it can cost you

  886. your reputation or your career. No matter where

  887. you are in your journey, beware of myths. Do

  888. not let false teaching, as popular as they may

  889. be, to deceive you. The flea is not deaf. There's

  890. a different interpretation that is most likely

  891. to be the truth. Lord, lead us into truth. Lead

  892. our children into truth. Help us engage with

  893. things that point us to you. And if anyone is

  894. in wrestling, Holy Spirit, would you lead that

  895. person into all truth? We are here for you, Lord.

  896. And we hear the warning. We listen to it. We

  897. don't want to be ignorant. We don't want to be

  898. dogmatic. We do want to study and learn and know

  899. that what you say is true. In Jesus' name we

  900. pray. Amen. If God is calling you to support

  901. our ministries, you will find giving options

  902. on our website. And remember to join us next

  903. week. God bless you.