Ask Anything Sunday: Israel, the Rapture, Alcohol, and Assurance of Faith

My name is Pastor Trent.

I am the pastor here at Redeemer City Baptist Church, a Redeemer City Church.

We are a Baptist church.

And hey, this is something that we wanted to do monthly at our church is host QA, Ask Anything Sundays.

I've served the last eight years in Tampa, Florida, and we hosted these right across the street from the University of Tampa.

We had no idea if anyone would come tonight, who would come tonight.

We had a lot of college students said last minute they weren't able to come.

They may come later.

So tonight's very informal.

I just want to talk about it a little bit, if that's all right.

So in just a moment or even now, you'll see a QR code get pushed on the screen.

If you open up your phone uh and uh you notice your camera, you can actually just like zoom in to that QR code.

It'll automatically pull you to a uh like a website to ask questions.

It's just a Google form.

Uh you can ask any question you would like.

Uh, I can't promise we will get to your question.

I think in the queue there's already 15 or so.

15 or so um from people that have been asking questions.

We let people ask questions at church this morning.

Um no question is off limits.

We just can't promise we'll get to it.

Um, the only thing that we say to Miss Katie Beth, which I'll introduce in a moment, is uh if it's overly specific or like wouldn't pertain to everybody in this room, like, hey, I'm sitting next to my boyfriend and he doesn't like this, and we're not gonna ask that question out loud.

You can you can talk to a pastor afterwards for that.

So um I'm gonna ask the Lord to bless our time, but before I do that, uh I want to introduce Miss Katie Beth Cry.

Uh, she's moderating.

So uh when you ask a question, it immediately goes to the iPad she's holding uh and she can see it.

Uh and so if you don't get your question answered, uh you can fight Katie.

I'm just kidding.

Uh no, uh it goes to the iPad she's holding.

Uh this is Spencer.

This is one of our other pastors, he's the executive pastor here at Redeemer City.

And then I'm Trent.

Uh, I'm the lead pastor here at Redeemer City.

Uh a couple quick things.

Uh when you ask questions, uh, know that there may be even disagreement in this room.

Uh so I want to set up some categories for just a moment.

Uh the great Albert Moller, uh, who's the president of Southern Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, wrote an article back in like the early 2000s or the late 90s called Theological Triage.

Theological triage, he would argue, says there are three categories where we might understand the importance of doctrinal issues.

Triage, like if you uh, of course, have to go to the hospital and uh the nurses and the doctors are assessing whether you are the most important to be treated or not.

If you were to consider theological triage in three categories, one, two, and three, category one might be issues that we would die for as Christians.

Uh, issues that mark us as Christians, the exclusivity of Christ.

There is one way to have a relationship with the Father, and that's through the Son, Jesus Christ.

Uh, John 14, verse 6.

John 14:6

Um, justification by faith alone.

Uh uh that would be, you know, uh Ephesians chapter 2, uh, verses 8 and 9, uh, that we are uh made right by the work of Christ on our behalf.

Ephesians 2 · chapter mention

Uh the Trinity, uh, the church has long understood the Trinity to be a doctrinal of doctrinal matter of first importance, um, where if you uh uh cannot affirm the Trinity, we would not consider you a Christian in orthodoxy.

Those are matters of uh uh category one, what we would die for.

All right.

Then you might think about category two, issues we might debate over.

Well, let me say that category two would be issues we might divide over.

Uh, category two uh would include something like um uh whether or not you baptize your children.

Uh that would lead you to go to a different church than another church because my wife and I are not convinced that that's biblical, and so we wouldn't go to a church, therefore, that would baptize infants because we're not going to baptize our infants.

And so we would divide over that, but we still think those people are Christians.

Uh, we still think they're believers.

Um, we uh disagree on matters of theological importance, just not the most important things.

That's category two.

Does that make sense?

And I should just say there are issues of baptism uh uh regarding infants that are way different than others.

Uh we can talk about that if you have that baptism question, infant baptism question.

Uh and then category three, uh, so category one's die for, category two is um uh divide over, category three would be debate within.

Uh so I just came from First Baptist Tampa, where I served as one of the teaching pastors.

Uh, all three of our on-staff pastors disagreed on our interpretation of the book of Revelation.

Uh, and we did so uh not jokingly, but we would kind of push back with one another.

All right.

So um, those are matters that the church has long disagreed on, long debated.

Uh, and uh and I don't think anybody, any one of us in heaven are gonna say, I told you so.

Right.

So uh those are the theological triage categories.

In category three, we might disagree on some things.

All right.

You may see that tonight.

I don't know that we do, but you may see that tonight.

All right.

Um, all that said, anything else I need to say?

We encourage you, hey, don't take our word for it.

We are trying to point you to the word of God as best we can.

Uh, and so go back to the word of God.

Um, that is the standard for truth and life and godliness.

Uh, and so be like the Briance.

Go back to the truth of the Word of God.

Um, uh, we might share opinions that you might disagree with as well.

Uh, that's okay.

All right.

We do not feel ourselves to be perfect arbiters of God's word.

If you would, let's pray.

And then I'm gonna pass it over to Miss Katie Beth, and she's gonna start asking questions.

Uh, you're welcome to not stay here until seven.

You're welcome to stay in here till seven.

Uh, this is very informal.

There's coffee back there, there's water back there, and uh, thank you for being here.

Let's pray.

God, as we sang this morning, we hail you, King Jesus, ascended to the right hand of the Father, making intercession on our behalf.

When the tempter um tries to prevail in our life, making us believe that uh our sins have not been paid for finally and full, you sit at the right hand of the Father and you declare us yours.

Uh Lord, we thank you.

We thank you that you also sit at the right hand of the Father overseeing your church until you return.

Uh Lord, we're in safe hands.

John chapter 10.

John 10 · chapter mention

Lord, we love you and we thank you for so deeply and dearly loving us.

We thank you for sending your spirit, uh, Lord, it seals us into that day of return.

We thank you for sending your spirit that helps us understand and leads us to truth and righteousness.

Um, we thank you for gifting us by your spirit to serve your church, emboldening us for mission and uh amidst persecution.

Uh, Lord, we we thank you for the church.

Uh what an encouragement to us to see brothers and sisters in Christ in this room.

In your name we pray, and for your glory we aim.

Everybody said, Amen.

Amen.

All right.

This is a good one, I think, to get um some introduction stuff going.

What is your favorite book of the Bible and why?

Favorite book.

I feel like that changes every time I do a study.

Uh so it's kind of difficult.

So I do love Philippians.

I would say Philippians is probably one of my go-to, just an encouraging book as a believer.

Um Yeah, I loved, I love doing the study on that one.

I love First Peter as we're kind of going through First Peter now.

Uh I love anything that puts uh the believer in the view of their life, and I'm gonna say this in a nice way, that their life is not really worth it here on earth, if you know what I'm saying.

Like, I love any any book, and I feel like those two books do probably the best job of any books of saying, like, hey, your life here on earth is is as a believer, it's really not about you in the nicest way.

Uh it's about honoring and glorifying God in whatever capacity you can uh and long for eternity.

It doesn't mean like I don't love to enjoy my kids.

I feel like I'm gonna start preaching here, so I'm gonna try to be quick.

But it doesn't mean that I don't love life with my kids, I don't enjoy time with my kids, I don't enjoy being married to my wife, I don't enjoy being able to do things, but it means very much that those things should be minus so minuscule in light to my longing for being in eternity with Christ.

Um and so those two are about probably my favorite books because of that.

It reminds me, like, man, there's work for me to do here on earth.

Uh, and and my life is not about me here.

So when things happen to me, if we if we just take that mindset when things happen to us, when issues, issues just seem so much smaller.

Like they just seem so much smaller.

If you were to have the mindset that Paul had uh and Peter had when they wrote those those two letters.

Uh you said a really good statement there at the beginning.

The rest was really good too.

But the the appreciate that this is very informal.

Uh typically, when I am studying a book to walk through a book with our church, so right now it's first Peter, um, it becomes for me like my favorite.

Uh because there's just uh treasure, treasures of wisdom and uh yeah, and just assurances of the pardon of Christ.

Anyway, um, probably the book of Ephesians.

Uh, it's like Romans, uh, doctrinally uh heavy, um, but it's real short.

Uh, it's real digestible.

Um, and so the book of Ephesians has probably been a favorite of mine uh as far as one of Paul's letters and epistle.

Um, but out of the four gospels, I love the book of Luke.

Um, Luke was not a disciple of Jesus Christ during his ministry on earth.

He had been following the teachings of Jesus for quite some time, wrote Luke and the book of Acts for a man named Theophilus, who I take to be a Roman official or Roman individual.

And uh the way Jesus wanted to disciple Theophilus was through Luke's faithfulness of telling the Jesus story.

Uh and so uh, you know, if you're looking for a book to walk through someone who's a new believer, um, I mean, any book of the Bible would be great, but the book of Luke is great.

It seems like Theophilus is having a crisis of faith.

He was a skeptic.

Um, Luke's probably a skeptic, following all things about the Jesus story closely.

And so uh I love the book of Luke.

Those are all good.

So staying on um the topic of books, what's a book outside of the Bible that you would recommend for a new believer who may be in the beginning of learning and growing in their faith?

Systematic theology by William Grudham.

That's the easier.

No, I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding.

Uh yeah, I don't know.

How about you take that one?

Right off the bat.

Yeah.

Um, a couple books that have just been uh generally super helpful for me.

Uh Knowing God by J.I.

Packer.

If J.I.

Packer writes it, I want to read it.

Um and so Knowing God by J.I.

Packer, The Pursuit of God by A.W.

Tozer, I would disagree with Tozer on some things.

That is a great book.

Um and uh yeah, those are two really good books.

Yeah.

Say those one more time in case somebody wants to write them down there.

Yeah, The Pursuit of God by A.W.

Tozer uh and Knowing God by J.I.

Packer.

Many other good books.

I mean, what is the gospel by Greg Gilbert's great?

Um those are those are three really good books.

How do I know if I'm genuinely saved?

So um there's a few questions.

Have you heard the gospel?

Um have you responded in repentance from your sin, turning to Christ as the only hope of your salvation?

Uh now, sounds like the question is crisis of faith situation.

How do I know I'm genuinely saved?

Um I think there's a few things we can kind of point to.

Um, the the first is uh conviction of sin.

The second is the testimony of your local church affirming, hey, yeah, I genuinely think you're walking with the Lord.

Uh ask a seasoned saint.

But the book of 1 John, I would argue, is written to help answer that question.

The book of 1 John.

Uh John is older when he's writing it.

He repeats himself a lot in the book of 1 John, and he kind of sets up three tests of genuine faith in the book of 1 John.

Uh the three tests of genuine faith.

Uh number one is ongoing belief.

You've been following Jesus for 10 years now.

Do you still believe he died a sinner's death so that sinners who place their faith and trust in him might have life in his name undeserved but freely given at the cost of Jesus' life?

Ongoing belief.

I I I heard a pastor talk one time, um, and it was really, I thought, just great.

Um one of the main ways we see genuine faith is someone on their deathbed still proclaiming Jesus as Lord.

Right?

So ongoing belief is the first theological test or first um test of genuine belief in first John.

The second is uh obedience.

Is there a hunger to actually serve the Lord?

Now, any believer can admit there are seasons of life where we do not feel um eager to serve the Lord or we may feel dull on our affections for Christ, but that should be a test by which we understand, hey, do I have any hunger for the Lord?

If I have no affection for Jesus, maybe I don't know him.

And then the third, uh in 1 John, ongoing belief, uh obedience uh is is love.

Um in 1 John, uh it's put, I think, twice in chapter three and chapter 4.

If you do not love your brother and only have hatred for him, how can you love the one who died for them?

Uh so um a believer, an a genuine believer cannot say um with sincerity, continually, I hate my brother in Christ.

Uh and so love for the brethren.

So uh ongoing belief, obedience, love as three tests of faith, I think first John puts it out.

Again, first John 5, verse 13, the very end of the book, he says, I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Lord our God, so that you may know you have faith.

1 John 5:13

Yeah, I mean, that's basically kind of the I always point people to the same book.

First John, uh, and I'll walk through that with them in their own life, uh, in the same thing.

So there's not much to add on to that.

As long as you, you know, have you been walked through the gospel with that?

What is your local church local body?

I believe that's also why the local body is so important to be a part of, uh, because not only does that allow you, it helps to affirm your belief and your walk to as well.

Um, when you you can clearly have people around you who, as you're walking and you're asking those questions, they can either affirm that or they can be a guiding spot to that.

Um but if you truly say you truly believe and that's what you think, and then you do the test of kind of those three things, uh, that's kind of like the guiding light of what I'd say very echoed the same thing, kind of what you're saying.

We're gonna keep talking for a minute.

So let's talk about the church for just a moment being a uh a group of people that help affirm salvation.

Yep.

That that's a that's a biblical thing.

So um I'm gonna point you to a couple texts here.

We always want to root our answers in the Bible.

So um, so we do practice church membership.

We think it's a biblical thing.

Um, we think 1 Corinthians chapter 11 teaches that that we're members of one body.

1 Corinthians 11 · chapter mention

Uh, we think that pastors will give an account for the flock that um uh sits under them.

That's Hebrews 13, 17.

Uh, but let me point you to a really unique passage of scripture.

It's 1 Corinthians 5.

And 1 Corinthians 5, um, if you've never read it before, there is an inappropriate relationship happening between a son and his um uh and his stepmom.

Okay?

Wacky situation, uh, so wacky that the unbelieving world is looking at the church in Corinth and they're perplexed.

Like, let you would let that happen?

And you gotta think, Rome's not uh the pinnacle of purity, right?

Uh and they're confused at what's going on in the church in Corinth.

And so Paul writes all of the chapter except for the first two verses, addressing the church for letting that guy stay in the church.

And I think one of the reasons why, and I think I could argue this pretty clearly from the script text of scripture, Paul won't call him a believer.

Uh, he says, one who bears the name of brother, because Paul doesn't know if he's a believer because of his sin.

And so he calls the church to actually kick him out of the church, um, to it expel that individual, to, to practice church discipline to the highest degree, which is to basically help him to know he may not actually be a believer, and he either needs to repent and join the church, or repent before the church and and be recognized as as a repentant believer.

Um so the the church in some way has been given the task to affirm salvation individually and help people, uh, Hebrews 12, 15, see to it in the local church that no one fails to obtain the grace of God.

So discipleship in a local church is doing nothing less than doing all we can to make sure someone finishes the cross line, uh sorry, the the the finish line of their life over the threshold of heaven's door.

So that the church works toward um helping other believers um cross the finish line of faith with faith.

Um finish line of life with faith.

Yeah.

He says kick kick him to the realm of Satan about that individual uh where Satan has sway outside the church.

Yeah, and I believe, and I don't want I don't know if there's another question, but this is why the local church is so important to the believer.

Like the local church is kind of like like when I try to talk to believers, you know, I know I have a few family and friends and things like that who don't find the local church so important.

But I'm like, man, that's gotta be not only is it the place that like you should feel the most joy when you're around, like you should be in the world and not find the most joy in the world.

Like being with these other believers.

I'll try I try to think of like, man, imagine like the first century church who was being persecuted and beat, and they knew they got to come together with fellow believers on a weekly basis.

Like, how joyous was it for them in those moments?

Like they were probably so excited to wake up.

Like, I know there's some mornings that we wake up and we're like, I would love to just sleep in a little bit longer.

Like they probably ran to the church, church were joyous to be in the midst of that.

And so, as believers, I would say, man, you should be and so encouraged to be part of a local church for that very specific reason.

Because you know that the brothers and sisters that are around you are going to help you to finish strong, are going to help you seek uh Christ above all things in a good and sometimes like First Corinthians and in a difficult time.

Uh, but man, that there's such a testament to I see a lot of believers who maybe struggle with their faith that aren't a part of a local church compared to believers that I see whose faith is growing strong and rapidly because they are uh not just involved, because a lot of times we can be involved and use that as an excuse or a crux in our life.

They're not just involved in the local church, but they are doing life that's like a key word that we love to say, with fellow brothers and sisters in the church.

Uh, and so, man, for anybody struggling, if they are a believer, I would say, man, the local church is gonna be one of the greatest like things that God has gifted us with to help us in our walk.

One more thing.

Anecdote.

Uh, I had seven really good friends with me on my wedding day.

Um, all of which grew up in the same youth group.

I think every single one, except for one uh that I grew up in.

Um four of them don't follow Jesus anymore.

And the common denominator with all of those four guys is when they left home, they did not get involved in a church.

I think we could all in the same way echo tons of people that we know no longer follow Jesus.

And almost the number one, I mean, obviously there's other things, but the number one thing was the first to withdraw from the local church.

So kind of staying in line with all of that, um, another salvation question.

We've kind of talked a little bit about it, but can a person lose their salvation fully?

Uh can they lose it?

No.

Um uh if uh if a person has genuinely trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ, meaning they have been uh born again, um uh, which testifies to the fact that they were elect all along.

That's Southern Baptist Church language.

Uh it's in our Baptist Faith and Message.

If you don't like that language, it's in the Bible and it's in our Baptist Faith and Message.

Um uh if God saved you, you will never not be saved.

Uh I can give you verse after verse after verse.

Uh Jude 24 through 25.

Now to him who is able to present you um uh, you know, uh blameless.

Uh so Jesus is the one who presents us before the Father in the last days, uh, blameless because of his work on our behalf.

Uh Philippians 1, 6, now to him who began a good work in you, he will bring it to completion.

Uh Paul has the church of Philippi in mind, uh, he has their salvation in mind.

He has the fact that God will continue to sanctify them until he returns.

John 10 talks about um the shepherd knows his sheep.

He lays down his life for his sheep, he holds his sheep in his hand, and his father holds those sheep in his hand as well.

So you're not you're not uh gonna find your way out of that.

Romans chapter 8, there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8 · chapter mention

Later on down Romans chapter 8, uh, verse uh 28, 29, 30 uh um talks about those whom he foreknew, he predestined, those whom he predestined, he called, those who called, uh he justified, those he justified, he will glorify.

Romans 8 · chapter mention

Uh and so God from um eternity past for an eternal future has saved people for his glory and will keep them not by their own work, but by his already accomplished work 2,000 years ago.

Um, end of Romans chapter 8 uh talks about now what can separate us from the love of God, and it lists a bunch of different things.

Romans 8 · chapter mention

Basically, you can't and nothing else can separate from the love of God and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Um, Ephesians chapter two, um, not only does Ephesians chapter one talk about the fact that the triune Godhead, Father, Son, and Spirit has planned, provided for, and will protect your salvation from eternity past for an eternal future, um, but that he sends his spirit to protect your salvation until he returns.

It's a seal, a guarantee for your inheritance until we acquire possession of it.

Uh, so um the witness of the New Testament is clear.

If you are a genuine follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, he will keep you, he will sanctify you, and he will present you blameless until the day he returns.

Um so you need not worry uh um about losing your salvation as if you earned it in the first place.

Um now, it should be said that there are people, 1 John chapter 2, who um give witness to the fact that they never were believers by leaving the church, leaving the faith altogether.

1 John 2 · chapter mention

Uh, and so that is a is a um uh that brings clarity to the fact that their salvation was not ever genuine.

Um so uh you can be fooled, unfortunately, be deceived.

Uh and uh and uh we we uh we're thankful for conviction, which is ongoing in the Christian life and repentance, which is a pattern in the Christian life, um, which means the Holy Spirit is still at work in our life and um that we genuinely trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

I think that was good.

Okay, we've had a few questions on this topic.

Should American Christians support Israel no matter what?

If so, why?

Yeah, great question.

Can I go back to something before that though?

Okay.

Um so uh a lot of people have in mind uh the loser salvation question, Hebrews chapter six.

Um uh some version of apostasy mentioned, Hebrews chapter six, verses one through eight or something like that.

Something around that at the beginning of Hebrews chapter six.

Um there are two interpretations that are common uh for understanding that from a perspective we would understand it.

Uh one is Tom Shriner, one is um we just had this conversation three days ago.

I know.

Who was the other person?

I don't remember.

Like every other Baptist.

Um Tom Schreiner makes a really good case um for the fact that uh if you're really bored theologically and you want to Google it, just look up Tom Schrohner's view tonight and then look up like some other Baptist view, and uh you can compare their views on Hebrews 6, but you can't lose your salvation if you're genuinely saved.

Israel.

What was the question again?

Should American Christians support Israel no matter what?

If so, why?

You sure you want to open up that can of worms?

Okay.

There's been a lot of questions on it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So let's talk about that.

Um do you want me just to go for it?

Go man.

Yeah, you're more educated on that part there.

All right, so let's talk about this for a little bit.

Um in our current climate, absolutely yes, absolutely, unequivocally, yes.

Um I I don't see anybody who's mad right now.

Uh Hamas is evil, wicked, um, and uh, and doing awful things.

That doesn't mean Israel's perfect in everything that they do all the time.

I I don't even I can't I can't stay up to date, and there's so much misinformation out there.

I don't even know.

I don't know what's going on sometimes.

Um but I'll say this.

Um so there's gonna be disagreement in this room on this, and that's that's okay.

Um hopefully we can see each other as brothers and sisters in Christ for eternity forever.

Uh so um Jerusalem fell in AD 70, a not 80, but AD 70.

One of the only books that was probably written after that was the Gospel, uh, not the Gospel, the uh the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ by John.

So Revelation.

Um some people argue that a lot of it was about Israel, some people argue that next to none of it was about uh that that what uh happened in A D 70.

Um most likely it was written after that.

You're wondering why I'm even mentioning that.

That's fine.

Um here's why.

Because John doesn't really talk about and he John's a Jew.

He doesn't talk about preserving Israel at all costs, and they probably had just been taken over.

Um the one thing he mentions about Israel in uh his letter to the seven churches is that there are some who are synagogues of Satan.

And I don't think Israel was playing tarot cards or like doing magic spells or anything like that.

Um I think it was because they denied Jesus is the Christ.

And so they were gathering under a different name, disregarding the name of Jesus, and so he would say, they're they're in that way satanic, right?

And that way.

That doesn't mean Jews are satanic.

There's they're in that way satanic.

They're not, they've not received Christ.

Okay.

So that's important just to note that that was written probably after AD 70, and uh, and John does not say, hey, pray for the restoration of Israel.

Um so that that's just important to note.

Um second thing, um a lot of people will point to Genesis chapter 12 um as the promise made to Abraham uh that uh the that he's gonna give them land and and and a seed and uh a blessing, and that those who bless Abraham's children will be blessed, those who curse Abraham's children will be cursed.

Genesis 12 · chapter mention

So the question we gotta ask is well, who's Abraham's children?

And it's not as easy to answer that question as you think it is.

Um biblically, it's not.

Like read any part of the New Testament when it mentions Abraham, and it's not.

Um Galatians chapter three, uh Abraham's children are not those with Abraham's blood flowing through their veins, but the faith of Abraham, that is the church of Jesus Christ.

So circumcision counts for nothing, he says.

Okay, so there's that.

Um Ephesians chapter 2.

Ephesians 2 · chapter mention

There is one new man in place of the two.

There is not uh the people of the world, the people of the church, and then the people of Israel.

There is the people of God and not the people of God.

Ephesians chapter two, one new man in place of the two.

Um he's broken down the dividing wall of hostility, expressed in ordinances.

Uh one, there's there's there's two people that exist in the world people of God by virtue of their faith in Christ, now that he has been revealed as God's Son, uh clearly in the scriptures, and people who have rejected Jesus.

Uh Galatians three very clearly says Abraham's children are those who have trusted in the seed of Abraham, Jesus the Christ.

So I would say Okay, who are those who are blessed according to the Abrahamic promise?

Who are the inheritors of the promise?

John 1, Galatians 3, Ephesians 2, Romans 3, all say those who've inherited that promise are those who have faith in Jesus, not who are circumcised, not who have certain blood in their veins, um, and so on and so forth.

So if you have trust in Jesus Christ, you are blessed.

And if people curse you, they will be cursed.

If they come against the Church of Jesus Christ, made up of Jews and Gentiles, they will be cursed.

Um under every circumstance must we support the nation state of Israel.

Um say if right now Which I don't think will happen.

Say all the Palestinian people that are doing a number of things around Gaza, outside of Gaza, say there's a mass conversion that takes place and they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

They can they are a part of the Church of Jesus Christ.

And then Israel continues in unbelief.

And maybe they, for whatever reason, start doing very evil things.

Do we have a biblical mandate to support Israel as a nation state and not Palestine?

My answer is no.

I don't foresee that happening, but no.

Yeah, I'll just go with this.

The true Israel is Christ.

All those who are in Christ are God's elect people.

Galatians 6, Galatians 3, Ephesians 2, John 1.

Please go read those passages.

Don't just take my word for it.

Romans 3.

Um we want uh and maybe you're like, okay, well, I really don't agree with that.

Let me just say one thing.

Um I'm being careful with everything I'm saying because there's so much more I can say.

Uh Romans 11 teaches that there will be some sort of revival for Israel in the end.

I don't know when, uh, but before the end.

I think that's what it teaches that ethnic Jewish people will come to the Lord Jesus Christ and they'll be grafted back into the original vine, the vine that they were a part of.

Uh, but they will have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the gospel.

They will be joined to the church, the elect of God, the people of God, uh, and uh they won't be let in any other certain way.

It's it's by virtue of belief in Jesus.

So coming off that, what is Christian nationalism and should it impact Christians?

Come on, man, you're right on a roll.

This is such a hot button word.

Yeah, and I don't know that okay, so like I think multiple people in this room would probably agree with me if we sat down and talked about it for a long time.

I don't know that I have a really good definition of it.

Genuinely.

Like, I mean, I know that guy, Stephen Wolfe or whatever, wrote a book, I've not read it, but I I don't know that I have a good definition of it.

Um we want all nations, especially our own, why not our own to submit themselves to the Lord Jesus Christ and his teachings?

If that's Christian nationalism, sure.

I don't know.

Right.

Why would we not want that?

If what happened at the Charlie Cook Memorial is Christian nationalism, sign me up, right?

I'm all for it.

Um if that's what we're talking about, nations coming to obey the Lord, glorify his name, even certain parts of the body of Christ where I think, man, they're a little more charismatic than me, or man, I'm for it.

So long as we're preaching the same gospel.

Um man, if you can't, if you're a Christian and I I know there's maybe a few things weird that were said at that memorial, like one or two things, but if you can't celebrate what happened there, and if that's what Christian nationalism is, I'm in.

Um, I do want to just caveat and say, hey, like we're like I would be very happy if America repents altogether, glorifies Jesus, uh, and we call ourselves a genuine Christian nation and it's like real.

Um but not to just like be the best, right?

Or like kill all the other ones.

And I don't think that's what Christian nationalism is.

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.

Um because the God has a nation and it's the church.

And we want the church to bring their nations they live in in submission to God.

If that's Christian nationalism, that sounds great.

I'm not being very helpful about it.

I recognize that.

I I I I don't know, I don't know how to define it.

I've not read the book.

I yeah.

We've also got a lot of questions about what things that are permanent.

Um so is drinking alcohol a sin?

It's drinking alcohol sin.

You want me to answer another question?

You're just on a roll, you're having fun, so um K bith I think.

What about communion?

What about what about our people that not like me in this room?

Um so uh Can I have wine for communion?

Okay.

Or am I sinning?

You're being funny.

So um so here's the deal.

Uh I'll try to make it a little bit more lighthearted.

Drinking alcohol can be a sin.

Is it?

It's not inherently a sin.

I'll explain.

Um so the act of drinking alcohol, it's not inherently sinful, meaning that if you have no conviction against it, if you're drinking in moderation, very important, um, you're not drinking to get drunk with a desire to get drunk, uh, you're not drinking to get out of your mind in the right context around the right people, which would need to be defined by, hey, if you know your brother in Christ and you're at the bar with him, he says struggle with alcohol.

I think 1 Corinthians 8 more than Romans 14, but 1 Corinthians 8 would commend us not to partake.

Um, but you can't say that drinking alcohol is sinful across the board because Jesus didn't sin and he drank alcohol.

You can say 0.001 is more diluted.

I don't think it was.

I think those arguments were just to try to advocate for no alcohol whatsoever for a time of temperance or something.

But I'm not advocating for alcohol.

I'm not telling anyone in this room, so don't say I did that, to go drink alcohol.

Um, but Jesus drank alcohol.

The church for 180, 1900 years drank alcohol, um, obeying the Lord who drank alcohol at the Lord's Supper to commemorate the Lord's Supper.

He did drink alcohol.

If you say it was 0.01% of alcohol, apparently you're okay with 1.01% of alcohol.

We just have to make sure you find alcohol, it's 0.01% of alcohol.

Um, that wasn't the case.

But um so drinking alcohol is not sinful.

Uh uh Jesus called the new, he likened the new covenant to wine.

And apparently in heaven, according to Isaiah 65, we're gonna drink wine.

Um he gave people who had been drinking wine at a party wine.

But it could be sinful.

And I say it could be sinful because if your conscience is that it is sinful, you should not drink.

You should not.

To do so would be sin.

Romans 14.

That may seem like a weird gray area that it could not be sin for some and sin for others.

That's what Romans 14 says.

You are not to go against your conscience, and you're not to push someone else to go against their conscience either.

So um, if you're spending your time convincing someone who is convicted by the alcohol consumption to drink alcohol, you're sinning and you're trying to cause them to sin as well.

That's what it means.

That's what it means to be a stumbling block, to push someone into it who has a conscience issue with it.

Yeah, I have the same view.

There's no specifics.

I've never seen somebody come to me with a verse that says, you it is a sin to drink alcohol.

So there are verses there are verses that say you reconsider.

There are verses that say uh Paul Paul to Timothy, drink some alcohol.

Yeah.

Uh 1 Timothy 5.

You'll find it there.

My conscience tells me not to drink alcohol, so I don't drink alcohol, but I don't look upon other people sinning when they drink alcohol.

Yeah.

Well, let's lighten things up for a minute.

There's some new faces in the room.

Why did you pick Knoxville to plant a church?

Because he told me to.

In short, uh, so my wife and I are born and raised in very small towns in southern Missouri and northern Missouri.

I from a town of 10,000, my wife from a town of 1,000.

Uh, she didn't have any fast food joints.

Actually, she did, but they're all um ran out of business now.

Uh small town.

Um for the last eight years before moving here, I served as one of teaching pastors at First Baptist Tampa in Tampa, Florida.

That felt like New York to us, though we loved the church and um loved its people.

We moved up with about 25 people from FBC Tampa up here.

Um our church had been praying for uh to use money that we had had uh for a number of kingdom opportunities, one of which was church planting.

We had helped a number of churches plant, uh, we had uh uh hosted a number of church plants at our building, but we never actually sent out people and a leader to plant.

Um we think that's a biblical approach, Antioch and Acts chapter 12, Paul and Barnabas to plant churches.

Acts 12 · chapter mention

Uh I had been involved in college ministry for eight years at First Baptist Tampa, right across the street from University of Tampa.

I had served as the BCM director at USF.

Um, and so when I felt led and was kind of pushed by our team to consider planting, heavily supported by the church, I knew that I wanted to plant in a major university city.

Knew that.

Um there's a number of reasons why.

Um one of the key reasons is uh not everyone is gonna feel or be called to cross-cultural missions.

Uh Paul told multiple times the church to stay while he went.

Um but there are communities in cities in the United States where the nations come.

They come to be educated, to learn all sorts of things.

Um, people from all over the place who've never heard the name of Jesus.

Um, missiologists recognize state schools often as uh unreached people groups.

Now they can't technically call them people groups because they're not ethnic groups per se, but they're less than 2% reached.

So they're unreached people groups because there's so many people from the international places.

So um during my time at FBC Tampa, I saw a number of international students come to the Lord Jesus Christ.

They'd never heard of Jesus before.

And I was like, I want to be a part of that.

And so we went to Knoxville, Tuscaloosa, Athens.

We prayed about Baton Rouge, we prayed about uh Morgantown?

Morgantown?

I think so.

Morgantown.

Uh we visited some of those places, met pastors in those areas.

I came two and a half years ago, met a bunch of pastors in this area, prayed with them, asked, hey, is there any uh uh is there a need here?

They said unequivocally, yes.

Here's the area there's a need.

And so we felt called to Knoxville.

Short sort short story.

I just came along.

Uh we were in an account of accountability group, Bible study group, prayer group, memorization scripture group with some buddies.

Uh went to Poland together.

We went to Poland together to serve on mission right after Russia invaded Ukraine.

That was an interesting thing.

Uh, because our ministry was supposed to be like sports ministry teaching football to Polish kids who don't know a ton about football.

Uh, but our ministry primarily was to Ukrainian refugees.

Um we were there about four months after they invaded uh Russia invaded Ukraine.

So um Poland took in a lot of Ukrainian refugees.

Uh and during that time that we were meeting and praying together, I shared that hey, I'm feeling the Lord's calling to this.

Um, and uh somewhere along the way you're like, I think I I think our families called too.

Yeah, man.

And now we're here.

And we're glad you are.

Next one is can women serve as pastors?

Ooh.

Do you want the short answer?

You're looking at me again.

I like to give you all the all the rough.

I mean, it I can give you a short answer.

Biblically, no.

I mean, Timothy pretty is clear about that, about being under shepherds.

And so, no, do you want to give more evidence to that for you?

Yeah.

Uh so um let's define our terms.

Uh there are two the Baptists have historically recognized two offices within the local church.

Um, the office of pastor and the office of deacon, right?

I mean, you guys know that.

There's deacons, there's pastors.

Um, we've always recognized that.

We take that from 1 Timothy 3, uh, the two sections, one uh about overseers and one about deacons.

Um it's important to note, terminology-wise, when we talk about pastor, uh, the term most often used in the New Testament is the term elder.

Now, you may think that's too Presbyterian and hate that word.

It's just the word that's most often used in the New Testament.

Uh it's the same, it's the same office as a pastor.

An elder is a pastor, a pastor is an elder, an el an overseer is a pastor who is an elder, an elder is an overseer who is also a pastor.

It's one office, and then there's deacons.

Um Acts 20, verse 28 talks about uh Paul's talking to the Ephesian elders.

Acts 20:28

Um, he tells them to exercise oversight by shepherding.

The word shepherd there as a verb is the word pastor.

Most oftentimes you see the word passer in the New Testament, you see it as a verb.

Um but we use it to reference elders.

We think what elders do is they're the shepherds of a local church.

So um maybe uh uh like I'm inviting you into a class here for a moment.

Elder is the title, oversee is the task, to pastor to shepherd is the technique by which you do it.

Right.

Um the the church, the the Bible is very clear.

Um the the role, sorry, I was said the office and function of a pastor, slash elder, slash overseer is limited to men as qualified by scripture.

So men have been reserved for that role by God, and if you want to ask him questions why in the future, you're welcome to.

Um, I think you'll be so amazed in his presence that that will be the last of your worries, but he he has clearly stated that.

Um 1 Timothy 2, verse uh 14 and 1st uh uh Timothy 3, Titus 1.

Um, you don't find any examples of female pastors in the New Testament.

On top of that, um uh the the uh uh um an church history, there's like the church is for 1900 years in agreement on that for real.

The church like 1900 years is on almost unanimous agreement on that.

And so for people in the last hundred years to be like that sexist is to basically be historically arrogant.

Um, arrogant meaning all those Christians misunderstood how kind we ought to be.

That's pretty historically arrogant.

Um the Bible's clear, it's reserved for men as qualified by scripture, as qualified by scripture.

Um I'm just gonna say one more thing.

That's enough.

Yeah.

Okay.

Can a Christian believe the earth is really old, or do you have to believe in a young earth?

I don't think there's I think that's where we hit that level three.

Okay.

Um I hold to a young earth.

I just believe looking through scripture, I like to take it realistically, but I don't think it's anything that's going to that's like a a third-level church tur tur uh what's the word?

I just forgot it.

Thank you, buddy.

Uh like that's that's an issue that like you're not gonna be kicked out of a church because you think the earth is old.

I mean, some part of me would love to think dinosaurs are really old.

Like I just love Jurassic Park, so I think that would be really cool.

Um, but looking at scripture, I hold to a young earth is just the way I think it is.

Defining terms, uh evolution, big no-no.

Uh that's not what we're talking about.

When we say old earth creationism, the idea is what like B.B.

Warfield, who is a great theologian, though I disagree with him on old earth, argued for many years occurring in the Genesis account.

Um God created everything still, uh, but there was many years in between all that he created.

I don't take that view.

I take a young earth.

I think you can be a Christian and be wrong.

That that sounds arrogant.

I don't mean that to sound arrogant.

To have an opinion is to believe that other people are wrong, right?

And so um I've got good and godly believing friends who disagree with me on that, and uh um they're not um theistic evolutionists or evolutionists, they're old earth creationists, and I take the six days to be six literal days.

Yeah.

Nice.

If homosexuality is a sin, what is the solution for individuals who struggle with these feelings?

I mean, I think it it's kind of the same as any sin that you you struggle with.

I think the solution would be put yourself around other believers who are going to help you to encourage not to sin, put yourself in the church, be in the word, uh and things like that.

I think we serve a I think sometimes we limit what God can do.

Like miraculous power of following him.

Like it's uh sometimes we label sins as so much more difficult and harder than other sins, but we serve a pretty gracious, awesome God who's been able to change a whole lot of lives.

So that's something somebody's struggling with.

Uh, I would encourage, just as I would encourage anybody else who is struggling with a temptation of life, uh, to A, be smart and not put yourself in situations that's gonna enhance that temptation.

Uh B, put yourself in the local church and surround yourself with local believers who are gonna help you.

Uh and probably most importantly, man, have a good prayer life.

Like if there's anybody who's gonna help you with the temptation in your life more than anybody else, it's gonna be God.

And so, man, going before him in in those kind of capacities.

I don't know if you have anything deeper to say about that.

Yeah.

So um 1 Corinthians 6 and Romans 1 both address homosexuality.

Uh Jesus addresses it by saying what marriage is between a man and a woman in Matthew 18.

Um, but let's talk about 1 Corinthians 6.

I talked about it just briefly this morning.

Um, homosexuality is listed as one of many sins uh that um to make it a practice of, uh, you will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do you not know that the unit will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Uh then he lists swindlers and the greedy and uh men who practice homosexuality and so on and so forth.

Um then he ends that statement in verse 11 by saying, and such were some of you.

But you are washed, you're sanctified, you're justified, uh, you have been radically transformed by the grace and power of God.

So that was your former life.

They would not have identified themselves as gay Christians anymore.

As if there should be any adjective before Christian.

You wouldn't call yourself a swindling Christian, right?

So that was a part of their former life that God, by the power of his uh work through his spirit, um gave them a taste for something better, and that was following Jesus.

Um so w how would we encourage someone who was um practicing homosexuality, practicing homosexual or someone who's struggling with same-sex attraction or um fighting against sin to put it to death, um, to surround yourself with people who can hold you accountable, just like if a man is struggling with lust in his heart in his in his private life, um uh to either pursue chastity uh or to give, to ask the Lord to give you affections for members of the opposite sex.

Um we have many uh accounts of different believers, famous believers, who have are now in um uh relationships uh happily having been transformed uh from the inside out to have a relationship with a member of the opposite sex and have kids now.

I was just stumbled upon someone, there's actually some good theology online uh on Instagram Reels, and someone just wrote a book about how um uh they had come to know Jesus and their life had been transformed and they've had kids now.

Um yeah, uh um I'm gonna want to say one thing.

Uh Carl Truman wrote a book, I don't remember the long one, the short one.

I haven't read it, but I sat, well, he talked about it for six hours one time, called Strange New World.

And he talks about how um our sexuality has become so ingrained with our identity that like your lusts are who you are, and that's a problem.

That's a big problem.

Like that's a big problem.

Um so so when someone is transformed from the inside out, given and there were a someone who struggled with homosexuality, um, and that sort of idea or what you what you struggled with defines you forever.

Um, like it's like you've lost your identity.

No, you've been given a new identity in Christ, and that's the primary identity.

Um, we know that to be whole as a person, um a sexual partner for life, does not not having one does not keep you from being whole.

Uh uh Jesus didn't, and I don't think Paul got married either.

Going back to current events, last week a pastor said the rapture was going to happen.

So, what are your thoughts on that and how should Christians think about the rapture?

Oh, what a person I'm gonna let you answer this one.

You should pull Trent aside one day and just if you have like five hours of your life to give up, ask him about the book of Revelation.

Thanks, buddy.

Uh okay, so um, I'll answer it briefly.

Uh that guy should not be a pastor anymore.

He made a prophecy, prophecy was wrong.

According to the Old Testament, a lot worse should happen, but he should not be a pastor anymore.

Um moving past that guy uh who influenced a bunch of people on TikTok apparently to sell their cars and stuff.

Truly, that happened.

He sold his car and now he thinks it's happening on October 7th.

I think he re-he redid it.

I don't know.

So we look really dumb when we do this sort of thing, when we like predict dates as if Jesus said he didn't know as well.

Um, so predicting dates is really dumb.

Don't do that ever.

Um you want to know about the rapture and you want to know my take.

Okay.

So uh we're making uh less friends tonight.

Okay, so um the the the the rapture that when we think about the rapture, it comes from 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, verses 13 through 17.

1 Thessalonians 4:13–17

Uh the the the Lord will descend upon the clouds, there'll be a voice like an archangel, there'll be a trumpet blast, and the dead in Christ will rise first, followed by those who are still alive.

We will meet him in the air, always to be with him from that point on.

Encourage one another with these words.

That's the short version, but that's the whole text.

Um, immediately goes to the day of the Lord in chapter 5, uh, which is the return of Christ for judgment.

Some people think that those are two different events.

There's not a good argument that it's those are two different events.

The chapter break didn't exist when it was written.

Paul's answering two different questions.

The first is we have the church at Thessalonica is asking the question in chapter four, what about my dead relatives?

Will they experience the resurrection to come?

They've died.

Are they gonna be disadvantaged?

And Paul's response is nope, they're actually gonna somehow go a little bit quicker.

Um I don't know if it's like milliseconds, because it's gonna happen fast anyways, but they will rise first.

So they will not be disadvantaged because of their death.

Christ is still going to return, encourage one another that when he returns, we who are alive, those who are asleep, will join him in the air.

Uh, there has been a unique view of the rapture proposed by a guy named John Nelson Darby in the 1800s that is not before seen, except by maybe one guy in England before the 1800s.

That is, that there is a rapture that takes place, a secret one.

It's silent.

We go up in the air for seven years uh to return later.

During those seven years, uh, Jewish people who continue in the faith or believe in the faith will uh send bodiless to later receive resurrected bodies.

Um and so there will be a compilation of those who resurrected at the first secret coming of Jesus, that is the loudest text in 1 Thessalonians 4.

So that doesn't make any sense.

Um, and and there's be disembodied Jewish people in heaven, it's not the heaven to come.

That view didn't exist for except for like the last 200 years.

John Nelson Darby, look it up.

It's called dispensationalism.

Um, that view was not held by the church at any point in time before that.

Um, I'll go on record saying that.

I've looked.

Irenaeus did not have that view.

People have argued it by cherry-picking a portion of his his work.

Um, so uh the rapture.

Uh the church for 1800 years before John Nelson Darby almost unequivocally argued that the church would struggle through the tribulation, not receiving any wrath of God, but still receiving persecution through the end times.

Think of the book of Exodus as um the plagues were happening on Pharaoh and the Egyptian people.

The Israelites were not feeling those plagues, but they were being told to make bricks without straw.

So they received more persecution as more wrath was being poured out, not on them, but on the Egyptian people.

Um uh and so uh I think the rapture is at the end of everything, simultaneous with the resurrection of Jesus.

Sorry, with the resurrection of Jesus, resurrection, uh, the return of Jesus and the resurrection of our bodies.

I think that's a simultaneous event, rap rapture, uh, resurrection of our bodies.

Uh uh, what'd I say?

Return of Jesus.

I think 1 Thessanians 4 is 1 Thessalonians 5, is 1 Corinthians 15.

So then the question is, okay, uh, why is the church not mentioned in the book of Revelation?

Uh do we want to keep going?

Yeah, this is a good one.

Okay.

Why is the church not mentioned in the book of Revelation?

Was it like chapter three?

Uh after chapter three, it's not mentioned ever again.

Yes, it is.

He uses the word saints.

John always uses the word saints for the word church.

Uh, if you read any of Paul's epistles, he only mentions the word church when he addresses the church at the very beginning.

John's addressing the church as the very beginning.

The the churches that he's writing to are addressed again at the end.

The word saints are used because the word church used for Christians abroad is never used in the New Testament.

The word church is always typically used except for like two occasions for the called out assembly.

He's writing two called-out assemblies.

So saints is used, saints is used 67 times in the New Testament, always referring to Christians.

Saints is used all throughout the New Testament, the book of Revelation.

So there's not adequate evidence that the church is gone just because the word church isn't used.

Revelation 19, um uh sorry, I'm rambling.

I know that.

Um, so uh the the the the rapture, the first Thessalonians 4 event is not explicitly mentioned anywhere in the book of Revelation.

It's not.

I mean, you you can't find it.

Uh not that it doesn't exist there, it just it's not explicitly mentioned.

It's not.

Um Revelation 19 is this one event where um where there are a bunch of people in white robes descending with Jesus, following behind him on white horses.

I think that's the rapture event.

I wouldn't bet my theology on it, but I think that's the rapture event.

Um, because I think 1 Thessalonians 4 is not talking about us escaping for a certain amount of time, but rather our ush he's using Roman language to say us ushering in Jesus to win the final victorious battle in the end.

And so we join him in the air as he comes downward um and uh in the war, the final war, last two sentences.

It's Revelation 19, very end.

So um, we go up to follow him down where he goes, and the evildoer who hurt his sons and daughters are done with.

I could go on that for a long time.

I studied that for a long time with a group of young adults because they had a lot of questions.

So to summarize, we do not believe there's gonna be rapture, and people who are pinpointing rapture times are ridiculous.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Premillennial, all millennial, dis uh premillennial, all millennial, post-millennial, no matter what your view is there, the church for 1800 years.

What are those years three?

What do those mean?

Well, we'll talk about later.

The church for for 1800 years argued um did not have premillennial um uh pre-tribulational dispensationalism as a category.

Didn't exist.

All right.

Nice.

So some more context and interpretation.

When Jesus said, My God, why have you forsaken me?

Was he truly separated from the Father?

How can this be true if they're both God?

You're on a wrong man.

I said at the very beginning, I am not the arbiter of God's word.

Um Jesus is quoting Psalm 22.

Um if you ask that question, I would love to talk with you about it further.

I don't know.

I I I don't know where that question's coming from.

I I don't even know that I thought through that.

Um I affirm the Trinity.

Advice on when life gets busy, how to keep God at the forefront amongst my daily tasks.

Ooh, that's a good one.

Life gets busy.

How do I keep God?

Uh I'm gonna say this so nicely.

Don't be so busy.

And that sounds really easy.

I'm gonna but I'm gonna be honest.

Uh, how do I keep God the fourth task?

So this is I'm gonna say I've I have five kids.

I'm just gonna give you a little bit of specific details.

His life's real busy.

So I have five kids.

I currently work two jobs, um and and other things as well.

My number one thing, do, and there's many, and you could disagree with me, but there's many great theologians who hold to this and many great pastors and things, is they intentionally begin their day with God.

Intentionally.

You could tell me you do a nighttime Bible study, and that is great.

That is good, but they intentionally are going to start their day with God because that's gonna be the first thing on their mind every day.

I'm gonna tell you right now, as a person of five kids, if I don't intentionally start my day with God, man, I'm a I'm a pretty rough person, right?

Uh my kids will quickly dwindle the patience.

And so if I'm busy, how do I start my time with God?

I'm gonna answer this first.

Let's just say you're very busy, is intentionally make moments in your life that are reserved for God and nothing takes away.

I'm gonna be I'm gonna make this a little bit smaller.

I'm married, and if my wife and I have a time together, and and we're scheduled that time, and I tell her, man, I know it's only, but I'm gonna go do this in.

Like, she's not gonna be happy with me.

And our life is probably not gonna go great.

So much more if I'm gonna be intentional in time with God, nothing can take that time away from me.

Listen, my time with God is at 5 a.m.

Do I want my time with God to be at 5 a.m.?

Heck no.

I would love to sleep in longer, but I don't do I know that the only time that Spencer is gonna have an intentional time with God compared to the because I know my life is busy, is that I have to make that time.

Second thing is maybe you have to ask the question, do I have to be doing everything I'm doing?

If you are so busy, maybe ask the question, do I really have to be doing all the things?

Do my kids have to be in three sports?

Do do is this edifying us as a family?

We set a rule like with our and again, I am not the golden, please do not come to my house because it sounds so much better coming out of my mouth than coming to my house and seeing it.

But like one thing we do is we limit our kids to they get one sport one week a day if they want to do a sport.

It does and it does not, and on this is when we were in church, it does not affect Sundays.

We will we will not miss Sundays for sports.

Listen, I've seen my kids, none of them are going professional anyway, okay?

Your kids probably aren't going either, okay?

So church is not going to take Sunday, I mean, sports or any any events or things like that are not gonna take over Sundays.

Uh, and it's also not it can't be a wreck to our family life.

Like those are kind of some of our rules.

And so I encourage you, if you are now single in this room and that is your mindset, life doesn't get less busy if you're single.

So I'm just gonna let you know that right now.

This is like you are in prime opportunity, but as you get married and these things like that, like especially men in the room, especially if you were here this morning as we've kind of talked through that, like you've got to be the lead and provider of uh of making sure God is instilled in your time.

Uh like it is so embarrassing to me when uh my wife has to come to me and go, Hey, we didn't do our our devotions tonight with our kids.

And I'm like, dang.

Like it's a shot at me because she's not meaning it too, but I'm like, man, as a leader of household, like I've got to make those priorities.

And so to go back to the question, how do I make time for God if my life is so busy?

Reevaluate your life, and maybe I'm I'm almost positive that there's things in your life that you can find to get rid of, right?

These devices, man, I don't know, but these devices suck so much stupid time out of our lives that there is probably some point in your life, and now it's any age gate, right?

I used to just talk to teenagers about this.

All of us, there's probably some point in your life that you could do this, all right?

Some of you, like I'm gonna be honest, like we do Bible verses, uh memorized memorization as a men's group.

You know what I would I when I do that?

It's like when you become a parent, a lot of your nice alone time is spent in the bathroom.

And so uh I do my I do my Bible memorization, right?

Because no kids can bother me, even though they knock on the door.

But in all seriousness, like that's gotta be the priority of your life above everything else.

Again, if we take that that visualization of what Paul was talking about with Peter was talking about, like I love my kids, I love my wife, but I cannot love them if I'm not spending time with God.

Like the greatest way I can love them is making sure God is priority in my life because it's gonna stem down to those other avenues.

That was a lot to say.

I don't know if you guys can.

I wouldn't add anything.

It's great.

Uh I just want to advocate for memorizing scripture.

Our guys meet on Monday nights at Panera at 7:30 p.m.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and uh, and it's to memorize the book that we're walking through.

First Peter chapter one, verse one through nine is what we've done so far.

Uh, and so we memorize that together slowly.

Um, and uh there's nothing like uh being made fun of just slightly to make sure you're in the word of God.

Uh so uh if you if you show up and you're not prepared, hey, did you not spend the time in God's word?

Right?

So uh not I would not that being made fun of should be the motivator for you to do it.

But to jump off of that is I would have people in your life who are questioning how you're spending time with God.

Uh and spouses are good, but I think it's much better to have we we love this catchphrase word, accountability groups or whatever, like just men in your life or women in your life that are gonna honestly text you and say, Hey, what are you studying in the Word right now?

Uh and you should feel guilty if you're not in the Word.

Like that there should be guilt of not being spending time with God, right?

And so those moments are what are encouraging us.

If I show up to a men's group on a Monday night and I don't have my Bible verse memorized, it's going to be embarrassing as it should be.

Uh, and so having people in your life, those are such important parts.

People in your life that will walk beside you.

Uh, yes, being in the word and other things in life too as well.

But man, have people who are advocating for you to text you, like, hey, what did you study today?

What are you learning?

What are you reading?

Things like that.

Nice.

We've kind of talked about this a little bit, but does God know everyone who will be saved and how is their free will, if so?

Go ahead.

Yeah.

So um, unless you think God has a sort of spiritual amnesia, um, he wrote the book of Revelation.

Uh, in Revelation, there are people surrounding his throne, so he absolutely knows who is going to be saved.

Um, there's no way around that.

He's outside of time, he sees all, knows all.

Uh, he knows who will at any point in time, uh, hear the gospel, uh, believe the gospel, and be saved.

Uh, how is there free will in that?

Uh we can have the free will talk for a long time on what you mean by that, and uh because that you know, words need definitions.

Uh, but uh really good book.

Um again, Bible's the first book, but a really good book, J.I.

Packer, Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God.

He calls it divine antinomy.

Uh antinomy, meaning um two things that work together simultaneously at the exact same time that we can't fully comprehend, but God can.

Uh that is, that he knows every single person at any given time who will be saved, and yet you must hear the gospel and respond in faith, or you will not be saved.

You must confess, after hearing the gospel, that Jesus is Lord, um, you must believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, and you will be saved.

Will be saved.

Uh it's not as if uh you hear the gospel, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you weren't elect, and so you're not gonna be saved.

That's not a thing.

That doesn't exist.

That's not a category.

Um God knows every single person who will be saved, and yet you must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ after hearing the gospel, turning from sin and turning to Jesus.

Uh that's called a divine uh Packer calls it the divine antinomy.

Versus, say both things.

Considering the government has redefined marriage, should Christians still get legally married or just married in the church, making a covenant before God.

I mean, I think it's the government still allows us to have things.

I don't think there's anything wrong with also getting married through the government's eyes.

I mean, mostly there's a lot of legality stuff that just makes life so much easier getting married.

I don't think you're undermining God's marriage status by getting married through the government.

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with um the government's redefined marriage.

It's not meaning that they've allowed for all sort of different marriages.

Um yeah, the government's gonna do what it does sometimes and it's wild and wacky.

Uh, and yet I think you should be married in the eyes of the state.

Um now, if your states, you know, if you live in Pakistan and being married in the eyes of the state's, you know, super scare scary and dangerous, go be married in your church that's out of ground.

That's fine.

Um, but I want on paper that Jess belongs to me and I belong to her.

Uh we have a shared bank account.

Um, and part of that's more married, and our our our kids will inherit our stuff as little as they may be.

Um and uh and I think that's a good plan.

Yeah.

Is lying always a sin?

This is a good one.

What about Rahab the prostitute, man?

You're gonna get me in trouble again.

Okay, so um the short answer is yes.

Um uh but I would do a deep dive genuinely in Exodus 1 and 2 and um the Rahab story, where's that at?

And the Rahab story.

Um uh Rahab lies.

We know she lied.

She knew she lied, and she's blessed, and she's mentioned the hall of faith for her actions in deceiving the wicked people that lived in her city.

Um the Hebrew midwives in Exodus chapter one and two, they are told to um uh to n to not allow the uh Hebrew boys to be born safely.

Uh they deceive Pharaoh um by telling him that they just have babies really fast, we couldn't get there in time, and they are blessed.

And one of the key ways that people are blessed in the Old Testament, especially in the Genesis account and Exodus account, are uh child through childbearing.

Right?

God blessed by by by children.

Um and so they're blessed, they're given children.

Um, they did what was right in the eyes of the Lord.

Um, so are there some certain circumstances by which God looks with pl with pleasure um for uh deception?

Uh possibly.

And um, but you lying to your mom's not one of those cases, right?

Good luck finding one of those cases.

I mean, uh you know, if if you're a um someone harboring a Jew or or hosting a Jew in your home uh in the early 40s, uh you might have a good excuse.

Um God would look with pleasure uh and you lying.

How can I quiet my mind when I'm talking to God?

A lot of quiet minds up here right now in answering that question.

That's a that's a good question.

Um my mind's racing, I've got a lot of things I gotta think about through my day.

Um I think it's like I think we also have specific ways, so like environment could be one way to quiet your mind.

Um prayerfully ask God to quiet your mind could be one way.

Uh like in my environment, I like to put on very soft music in the background and uh and or go outside or moments like that where it's whatever brings, I feel like an environment that's gonna bring me peace in those moments.

Uh, I quiet my mind.

I'm guessing that we're talking about if we're going into a devotional time with God, our mind is stirring and it's busy.

Uh, my first prayer before I even start my devotional is God, let me be intentional about this devotional, right?

Let me be focused.

And that's literally the I pray before my devotional because of that.

Again, I have five kids.

I have things that I'm thinking about all the time.

Uh, and man, I will get distracted.

Uh, I try not to be on my phone.

I do do like a journal on my phone, but I try not to be up on do not disturb mode and things like that.

So I try to be intentional in my quiet time for that because my mind does stir.

Uh, but also I I do ask God at the very beginning, hey, can you allow me in these moments?

I want to be very intentional with the time that I have with you.

And so, can you allow my mind at its very best?

And you'll be surprised by how much that actually hurt uh helps out too as well.

I mean, I guess that's the moment, the kind of question that they're asking you.

Yeah, I think environment matters.

I um I think for some that could look like going on a walk um to clear your mind a little bit.

Um uh schedule time, uh, get your phone out of the room.

Um don't let anybody contact you uh for that amount of time.

Um if it's 15 minutes, most likely you're gonna be fine for that 15 minutes.

Um so I I would say remove any distraction you can, schedule the time, and if necessary, get outside.

Um I I th I think there's something to uh I remember Piper speaking on this one time.

It's great.

He said uh sometimes there's something to getting outside, seeing light.

I'm not trying to get mystical here.

I'm just saying um when we're alone in a dark room, uh sometimes our mind can wander.

Um uh sometimes it's just good to exercise, to walk outside, to thank the Lord for everything you see and everything in your life uh that he's given you.

Uh start out with just thankfulness in your hearts to God.

Um, and then start to think through hey, who who in my neighborhood do I not know?

Or who do I know and I can pray for?

Um, and then just I I would walk and pray.

Uh that that's been very helpful for me.

I have a dog that I have to walk.

Now she has learned to poop in the middle of the road, and so I have to kind of re-figure out what I'm gonna do.

But um, random story there.

Walking outside is helpful.

Environments helpful.

How old should a child be before talking about salvation or leading a child to Christ?

I thought you were gonna about to say baptism.

Well, talking about salvation, I don't, I mean, I would start as soon as possible.

Uh, we take our kids through.

Now, here's here's where me and my wife have to have discussion, not controversy, but just that like their devotion time is not gonna look like our devotion time.

So again, I have five kids that age gap from 10 to 3.

Uh they're not gonna sit down and listen to a 30-minute lecture on the Trinity, right?

Sometimes if we make it five minutes.

Four hours in the rapture?

Or four hours of the rapture, like they're not gonna make it through that time.

Uh, and so, but we're intentional about it.

And so we will have moments that we we listen to worship music, we pray every morning.

Uh, I think a lot of discipleship is going to become is gonna come from what your life looks like as parents.

So if you're being intentional about your scripture time, like my kids know when I'm reading the Bible uh on Saturday mornings, a lot of times I'll do my devotion a little bit later so they're up, but they know that's that's my time.

Uh and they can, unless something is severely going wrong, then they know that, hey, that's my time.

They don't they don't mess with me during that time.

Um, but also there's moments where I invite them into that time, right?

And I'll say, hey, let's let's talk about what I'm reading today.

Let's let's go through this and things like that.

There's moments where uh there's really good catechisms out there.

All that is is like just reciting small little facts about who God is.

Like we'll just recite some of those.

We'll go through worship music together.

Uh, we'll have conversations, we'll we'll run through different things.

Again, and sometimes my three-year-old is uh running amok during our devotional time, right?

I'm gonna try to calm him down the best that I can, but it's like he's a three-year-old.

But we're gonna start it as early as possible.

Uh Vody Baccom said a great job, great thing about this when he said, Listen, sometimes your devotional are only 50 minutes and the kids are running around the whole time, but at least you're being intentional about being having a devotional.

So don't think, especially parents as your kid or people who are about to have kids, uh especially when your kids are younger, don't think it has to be this beautiful, uh, like programmed moment.

Like some of it is just us sitting at the kitchen table, eating dinner, and talking about what God do in your life today.

Uh, one thing we're attention, we pray every single day.

And my kids have to give me a prayer request.

My son prayed that his RC car would be fixed the other day.

Uh, some of the prayer requests are not gonna be the biggest deep thing ever, but I'm intentional about hey, we're gonna pray today.

I'm also intentional about they have to pray.

So it's five days of the week.

I have five kids in the well, four kids in the car, my wife takes them.

They each are gonna pray one day, and they're gonna learn how to pray in public, and they're gonna learn how to do these things.

And so it's being intentional.

Am I perfect at it?

No way.

There's sometimes where I'm yelling at them because the praying isn't going right, right?

Or there's sometimes like I have to be intentional in those moments.

But I think it's A, it's inviting them into our life.

Uh, the best thing that kids are gonna do is they're gonna reciprocate what you're doing, they're gonna uh model that.

And so let them see you doing your devotion, let them see you worshiping.

One thing that my wife and I are really big about in our marriage is like, hey, we're gonna have moments of like my wife and I like cuddling in front of our kids and kissing in front of our kids, and the things that kids are like that's disgusting because we want to model what a healthy marriage looks like.

If we have every time I'm going down a rabbit troll here, but if we have like disagreements in front of them, like we're gonna apologize to each other in front of them because we want to model what a healthy marriage looks like.

Uh, in the same way, you want to model what healthy devotion and discipleship to God looks like, and so invite them in those moments, but also again try to schedule moments too as well like that.

So start them off very young age, uh, and then what was the next second half of that question?

Let's see.

Or before talking about salvation or leading a child to Christ.

So leading a child to Christ.

I mean, we are just having moments, we're always talking about salvation.

Um, and so we we pray with them, we talk with them, and so I'm hoping there's a moment where my kids, you know, I say, Oh, do you kind of understand what Jesus did?

And like, yeah, but I know there will be a moment when they'll have salvation.

So I guess we're just constantly going through those in our life.

A couple good resources.

Uh I think Founders Ministry has a catechism.

Yeah, it's catechism.

We use New City because New City has songs, and it's a really great way to get songs in um in the head of our little ones.

Uh so New City Catechism has an app.

Uh if you're new to catechisms, it sounds very like Catholic, it is like the word does.

Um, Catechism is just teaching doctrine through questions and answers.

So they have an answer for questions, common questions about the faith.

Uh biggest storybook is another really good one.

Um it's like the biggest story book.

Ah, it took it from you.

Come on.

Uh, and then the theology book or something like that.

That's the one we're using right now.

The ology.

Theology.

There.

Theology.

Uh theology.

Really, these are all just solid materials that you can literally sit down and read with your kids in like five to ten minutes.

Judah is three times through the larger, biggest story book by Kevin Deoung.

Uh and he's reading it now.

He's able to read all the words, some big words in there.

Um, uh, and we do the catechism with him.

Um, this is gonna make me sound a little Presbyterian.

Um so uh I know you've been on this question, you answered it.

Great.

Um I just want to say uh we are not teaching Judah about salvation after he comes to know Jesus.

How prayerful he does, turns from his sin and trusts in Jesus.

Uh like Spencer mentioned, we are training our son to be a Christian.

Our son's gonna be a Christian, right?

Um with all that we are, the most important thing my son and my daughter will become is Christians.

And so we're gonna teach them about Jesus every day as best as we can.

Um the Rosemans are Christians.

Does it make sense?

Right?

Now I cannot, I'm not in charge of him genuinely repenting.

The Lord has to do a work in his heart I cannot do.

But if you're in my household, you're gonna be a Christian.

A lot of people will say, Oh, well, that's controlling.

No, that's house rules.

Right?

Um that you don't get to choose whether you do your homework, right?

You're not choosing whether or not we read the scriptures.

Um and so I'm gonna I'm gonna raise my boy, I'm gonna raise my daughter to be Christian.

Uh you mentioned uh I'll I'll stop getting off sad.

Um you mentioned Vodi Bakham.

Just want to make a note on Vodibakum.

Vodie Bakham passed away, great pastor.

Um if you've never heard of Vodibakum, go listen to Vodie Bakham and specifically uh go listen to a sermon he gave uh early 2000s, I think, at the pastor's conference for the Southern Baptist Convention, where he talked about uh why he believes the Bible to be true.

Uh what a gift.

He broke down uh I think this is second someone can correct me here.

I think second Peter chapter one or second Timothy chapter one, second Timothy chapter one.

Uh and he made a sentence as the outline.

Uh and I'm gonna butcher it a little bit here.

Uh the Bible is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses.

They report their they report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies.

And something else.

Anyways, go listen to that sermon by Vodibacum.

What a gift to the church.

We have another one about children.

How should Christians discern the call to adopt versus having only biological children?

Word that again.

How should Christians discern the call to adopt versus only having biological children?

Well, A, I think it's gonna be a call on your life.

You do I mean you just said it um if you feel eager in that of adopting, or if for some reason God has challenged you to not be able to have kids, and many gracious people I know would not have been able to have kids as believers, and they've adopted many believers.

Um yeah.

Yeah, Christians have taken it upon themselves historically to be the people who adopt.

Um our gospel is that Jesus adopted us or God adopted us into his family.

Uh Christians, uh, and this is not just to pat our back, uh, um, adopt at a rate about 2.3 times more than the average individual.

And I think that's because we believed we did not belong in God's family and he brought us in.

And so there are a number of kids that need to be adopted.

Um let's adopt them.

Um and and of course that starts with me.

Like I need to be willing to adopt someone when, man, we're stressed out with two, I can't imagine five, and some have eight, you know.

Um, but uh um I I have seen churches, I think healthy churches try to help cover the cost of adoption for families um by saying, hey, we're going to pay um for these 10 families who've all pursued adoption but can't afford 30 grand each.

Um the cost of adoption is insane.

Um I get in some ways, maybe it's to limit people who shouldn't be adopting who are trying to get government benefits because of it.

Um I don't know all the ins and outs of that.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of it, but let's continue to be people who adopt and let's let's let's raise the bar.

Do you have any recommendations on favorite podcasts to learn the word?

Recommendations on favorite podcasts.

I don't think I'll listen to any podcast to learn the word, so I don't know.

I don't know, I'm not a big podcast guy.

All right, here we go.

All right, uh The Briefing by Al Moeller, uh, where he talks about current cultural events, not necessarily to learn more about the Bible.

I'm sorry, I was thinking specifically biblical.

Yes, that's good for uh pastors talk by Nine Marks, kind of geared specifically to pastors, uh, about how pastors lead um from the office of being a pastor in a local church.

There's also preacher's talk by the same organization, Nine Marks, Jim Hamilton, um, Alex Duke, Sam Ahmadi, uh, three theologians talk about the Bible.

Preacher's talk.

Go find it, go listen to it.

You'll have to listen to the word chiasm mentioned in every episode about 30 times.

That's fine.

Um uh is everything a chiasm that he mentions?

Uh no, probably not.

Uh do you know what chiasm means?

It's fine if you don't.

It doesn't matter as much as you think it does, as much as Tim Hamilton probably thinks it does.

That's a great podcast.

Um there's a podcast that I really liked for a long time.

You'll only find it on at uh Apple Podcasts.

It's called The Word Matters.

Uh they only did three seasons.

There's limited episodes, they're not doing it anymore.

It's by Brandon D.

Smith and Trevan Wax, where they talked about confusing and controversial um passages in the Bible and kind of broke them down to what theologians have thought about them over the last few years.

Like, what is Paul talking about in 1 Corinthians 15 when he talks about baptism for the dead?

Um, and so they walk through that carefully uh with a biblical hermeneutic.

Um I've uh studying the Bible, but room for nuance.

I've really enjoyed that with a guy named Sean DeMars.

Um anything else you can think of?

I'm not really a big podcast guy, so I'll let you do that.

Yeah, I'm looking at stuff.

I enjoy reading, so I enjoy reading too.

Alright.

Um some guys on here I don't know that I would totally recommend.

Say the question one more time.

What is it?

Oh, hey, this is a good one.

Um uh White Horse End.

Uh White Horse End would be a great resource to study the Bible.

Um that's Michael Horton.

Um depending on the subject I listen to.

Uh the Everyday Pastor, that's again a little bit more about pastors, about Matt Smithers.

There you go.

There.

There you go.

All right.

We've had a few questions kind of like this one.

Um, are Catholics considered Christians?

You ready for a long answer?

Okay.

Um so I think there are uh genuine Catholics who are genuine Christians.

Absolutely.

Um I have heavy concerns for the Pope and the Papacy Um and having a Bible in front of them and having constructed so many uh barriers to justification by faith.

Because they don't believe in justification by faith alone.

They believe in justification by faith, but not faith alone.

Um I think if you are a sincere convert to Christianity, you should reconsider going to Catholic Mass.

Um you should find the Protestant church.

We are Protestant, happily so.

Protestant means we protested against the Catholic Church and its doctrines back in the 1500s and 1600s.

Uh I'd encourage you to read about church history.

Um, you know, the one main argument that people are in uh consider Catholicism these days is, well, we're the original church.

Um that argument doesn't hold the weight you think it does.

Um the church is defined by um building its foundation on the teachings of the apostles and prophets.

I argue that phrase from Ephesians 2 is Old and New Testament.

And so once you abandon the Old and New Testament and started adding your own testaments, uh, you have left being the quote unquote church.

Uh I have serious concerns about indulgences that are still taking place in the Catholic Church.

Um, back in 2019, right before COVID, to follow Pope on the Pope on Twitter when he was in Rio de Janeiro, uh, would offer your um your loved ones who had since died time.

out of purgatory, a holding cell, reimagined, not it found in the scriptures whatsoever.

The Catholic Church claims to have I think I'm steel manning the argument here, claims to have some kind of control over oversight over, the papacy does.

So following the Pope on Twitter would in some way allow your loved one to suffer less.

That's crazy.

That's not biblical.

I have serious concerns about Mariology.

If you were to go over to Poland and you were to go into a Catholic church and you were to look around at the icons uh and you had no uh and you were to sit in mass and you had no kind of background in Christianity, you would probably think a woman is very significant and a baby child.

And that's about all you'd get.

I mean we might get a little bit here and there but um Mariology is a concern indulgences are a concern justification by faith alone is neglected it's not taught um that prayers to the saints is not biblical um no matter how nice it sounds to pray to someone who's um watching you from heaven um so I I I I have serious concerns about papal authority about the papacy um I echo Martin Luther's 95 theses especially that the Christian life is one of repentance um and the pope has no authority um when you have time go look at a video uh it was at T4G it's a uh a conversation that was had with a guy named uh Philip Jensen who's in Australia he's an Anglican but to be an Anglican in Australia is way different than to be an Anglican here um and uh he talked about the Pope having three different uh titles of himself father bridge uh and uh um intercessor and he basically says when you really think about it is he is that office not trying to substitute the work of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit I have concerns serious concerns um but I think there are genuine Christians who are Catholics I just I think they need to find a a healthy place to be depending on time we have like time for one more okay we'll end on a light note as a pastor how did you discern the call to pastoral ministry I'll go first I'll let you go man yeah as a pastor so growing up I my dream was to be a roller coaster designer if you know me then you you know I I just love roller coasters that was gonna be the profession I was gonna have for the rest of my life I was so excited all right can we do something real fast to make it funny all right who designed lightning rod at Dollywood oh we didn't plan this it's an RMC okay who designed this is a random roller coaster on the topic I hope you really get it I hope I know it because it's a who designed um uh I don't remember which is which manta at SeaWorld that's uh BM okay who designed uh Time Traveler at Sodar City that's a mock ride okay yeah they're in a lot of trouble right now so they also designed Stardust Racers at uh at uh Epic Universe so they're not doing so hot at the moment um so that's what I really wanted to do I loved roller coasters and then about 11th grade uh I was very much in um involved in student ministry so I didn't really like high school didn't want to be around high school man all my friends and family I I I didn't look like the church kid because I was also a skater boy long hair you know that kind of look but I was so involved in church uh and for the good reasons and I looked around at all my friends that were involved on Wednesdays but none of their life was showing Christ outside of Wednesdays um and then they would go on and they would not be involved in the church at all and I thought man what if man somehow God could use me to just help be a part of students' lives because it's so important like in those years and I say this as a parent too as well in those years are so important to center your life around Christ not that God can't do anything so I'm not limiting what God can do.

But man if if you would just give up your teenage years to Jesus it seems like there is a a major trajectory towards this way or towards this way depending on the decisions you make when you're in high school and so God like just impressed upon that heart and I said man I think this is what I want to do as much as I love roller coasters I think this is what I want to do.

Plus in student ministry you still get to go ride roller coasters.

So I'm like I'm cool with this and so I was like that's where where God just grabbed a hold of me and I said okay this is what I'm gonna do then I'm gonna go do this and so uh I got involved I the first thing I did before I actually did this as I said I went to some people and I said man do you think like this is something I can do like do you see a heart outside of just desire to do this do you feel like so I tried to get affirmed by uh some other people in my life and they said man you're already living half that what you're doing right now not a pat on my back that's just what my life was in student ministry.

I was very involved and just like I want to see people come to know Jesus as students.

And so I said hey can I just try this out then at our local church, the church I was part of I just want to before I I try to be this thing I want to make sure like this is something that the grind is is what I love.

And so man I just started interning uh doing student ministry well actually I met my wife while she was two years in student ministry still and I graduated so he's like yeah I'd love for you to do this just not here because the girl you're dating is also in student ministry and that would be weird.

So I went to kids ministry and I found out I don't want to do kids ministry.

So I'm like great God's still affirming uh and so went to um went back into student ministry when my wife graduated loved it went to school for uh a pastoral degree um and then throughout my whole ministry God has just kind of continued to allow me to grow in different ways uh and see my ministry kind of change in different ways to where man I just I love what I get to do every day.

Uh my grandfather was a pastor um he's now since gone to be with the Lord um uh I was raised by two teachers uh in the church um dad was a deacon mom helped lead VBS small town in Missouri um they continue to serve the Lord love the Lord in their home church they've been members there since forever um and uh was heavily involved in student ministry heavily involved in my church uh Bible quiz and drill and whatever you call it um I planned on pursuing uh becoming a lawyer by going to the University of Missouri first.

Um that makes a lot of sense thanks buddy um so becoming a lawyer I hey man I can't I can't I don't intimate I don't know who that is and whether they build roller coasters no I'm just saying I'm just saying see why he is so much better on stage whatever man whatever all right so um University of Missouri was the plan.

Uh during my junior year I had been uh kind of hiding a sinful life in my life uh through my freshman and sophomore and junior year.

Um I got a new youth pastor who was a pastor at our church our church did and um one day he like called me to his office was like hey I come stop by the office you know after school today I'd love to hang out with you.

And I'm like oh crud uh he knows you know that kind of thing went and met with him and he said hey just I just want to disciple you know I I want to come alongside your your dad and and just encourage you in the faith and and uh that began a time where the Lord worked and convicted me of ongoing sin in my life and uh that I became uh I shared with my family, shared my parents and um and the Lord after about a year and a half impressed in my heart hey what if I didn't become a lawyer and just share Jesus with my friends?

And then I started a Bible study at our school and shared the gospel with the cross country guys.

He ran uh before school started after we ran in the morning.

Uh and uh and more and more I just felt well what if and then I went to a um a a Christian summer camp uh for students and and there was a call to consider um the pastorate and and what that looks like and to talk to your pastor about it and ask questions.

And so I started asking questions about it.

And over time the Lord just gave me a hunger for what I didn't totally understand the pastorate.

My grandpa wasn't a pastor at the time and he had already retired.

And so I began to ask him questions my father questions my youth pastor questions my lead pastor questions and uh started pursuing ministry and getting involved in local church uh more and more and um there's a lot more information that I could share but uh the Lord uh opened up opportunity uh a church saw that I was qualified for the role and uh my home church affirmed that and ordained me and uh and it was a beautiful thing.

So I became a pastor at 19 uh of a small country church for three years and still get calls from Tom Bewelly and Bob Pitts all the time.

Um so yeah if if you feel led in some sort of way men in the room hey is the Lord calling me to pastoral ministry uh I would first say hey that's a that's a a good question.

That's a good question.

But the one who um desires the officer over it desires a good thing.

Uh but then it's met with qualification and then it met it's met with church affirmation and then it's met with is there an opportunity?

So thanks to think through.

Yeah.

Yeah.

652.

Hey here's the deal you sat through two hours of us rambling thank you we do hope genuinely this was helpful in some sort of way.

Now if you're like Trent I'm gonna get you straight on the rapture or I'm gonna get you straight on that we're gonna be hanging out here for a little bit.

We'd love to talk with you.

Don't run out.

Uh if you have questions about Redeemer City Church, we would love to talk with you don't run out.

Um uh thank you for attending we hope this was in some way helpful.

Uh maybe you're attending Redeemer City Church for the first time at this event and you're like, I now know what these pastors think on things.

Uh hopefully that's encouraging for you to make the decision whether or not you want to be here or not.

So um hey can we can we ask the Lord to bless uh this time that we've already had in our hearts and minds for the days to come and uh and then would you just be praying for us as a church?

We're new.

We want to reach college students.

We want to reach this city we want to reach this community with the good news of Jesus Christ.

We say at this church all the time we are for the joy of the city.

Now we're not just saying that to market though it's very helpful that it's marketable to say for the joy of the city.

We do pull that from Acts 8.8.

Acts 88 Philip goes to Samaria after the um after persecution breaks out in Jerusalem he shares the gospel with degenerate Samaritans and they believe in the gospel and the city's transformed because of it.

And Luke the writer of Acts simply says there was much joy in that city.

They had found joy like they've never had before and so we want to talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ so that people have joy in Jesus forever.

And we want them to know that following Jesus is not a uh does not lead to like a life of ruin but a life of genuine joy that biblical ethics are actually good not only true.

We're thankful you're here.

Let's pray God we thank you for our time together we pray that you would cause fruit from it Lord we thank you for thank you for your word Lord you could have left us in our sin and you sent a Savior you could have left those who continued in sin after Jesus died and resurrected with without truth justly because of your anger and yet in your great kindness you spoke truth through apostles they wrote it down in a pen and we have your very word help us to build our lives upon it by the power of your spirit that you have sent to indwell our lives help us to understand it.

Help us to live kingdom lives laying ourselves down for the sake of people knowing you, loving you serving you forever or we do pray for our nation and for its leaders your word tells us to do that.

We do pray that the gospel that was shared multiple times would um Lord would root deep in the hearts of those who've never heard it before those who are even angry at because of it and that Lord there would be great fruit across our nation and that would result in us sending more and more people overseas to other nations for aid and for articulating the gospel Lord we pray thanking you that you are the king above kings Lord that you will come down wearing the crown of every king who tried to borrow crowns before you put our hope and our trust in you above everything else.

We love you Lord we thank you and you're not only a king but you dearly love us.

In your name we pray amen