Understanding God's Presence and Pruning: A Study of John 15

Tina: I know it's already been said, but happy new year.

Um, I'm up here just to introduce us.

For those of you who don't know, we are the Chaitis, Tina and Martin, and

we have the great privilege of serving in the Spanish speaking ministry.

Yes, yes.

As well as as of this month, we're also helping to serve and support the South,

and they have graciously welcomed us.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for that.

But I wanted just to take a moment to encourage all of us to be here now.

Um, I don't know about you, but hearing about the fires and other

things that are happening in our lives has been a little overwhelming.

And for me, going to sleep last night, all I thought about was all the things I

had to do today and the rest of the week.

And then waking up this morning, all I thought about was all the

things I have to do after service.

and so sometimes coming in on a Sunday when it should be a day of rest and

worship can feel very busy and hectic and then if you're like me and you're

a parent and you have two little ones, you're trying to get out of the house.

It's even more but I want to encourage you like I said to be here now.

God's word is going to be spoke spoken.

Um Martine will be teaching and preaching which I'm excited to hear but of course,

there's less about him and more about God.

And what he will be saying to each of us where we are currently

in our life and in our season.

So take a breath with me if you will

And be here And be ready to embrace what god will say to you and how he

will lead you Not only today, but through the rest of this week and

of course to the rest of our lives.

So happy new year Here's martin

Martin: All right, you guys hear me?

Well, good morning.

Please turn your bibles to john chapter 15.

John 15 · chapter mention

I do want to say a special shout out, uh, to our translators who are

translating in Korean and in Spanish.

It's great to be part of a church.

Uh, we are one church with three languages.

Uh, and as we come together, we have translations like this,

but the rest of the month.

Uh, we honor language, uh, God does not call us to assimilate, but honors and

speaks to us in our native languages.

And so to be able to have a Spanish and a Korean, um, church

and service in those languages is quite a privilege and a blessing.

Amen.

John chapter 15.

John 15 · chapter mention

I have a question for you as we get started.

Has this ever happened to you?

You trust in Noel tells you something about another person

that you also trust in Noel.

But what this person tells you about that person doesn't really

sound like that person at all.

Has that ever happened to you?

Can you raise your hand?

Has that happened to you?

It's a mess, right?

This happened to me reading the Gospel of John.

For Us in the Spanish ministry, we spent two years in the gospel of John.

And so we have 40 different lessons in the gospel of John, 40 different

Sundays between 2013, 2023 and 2024.

And as I'm reading, you know, trying to stay ahead of where we are in the

church, and so I've been Read, you know, there's kind of a pattern that I have,

read the entire gospel one time, get five or six different commentaries from

different sources, spend at least two or three hours a week diving into each

chapter, understanding the big picture.

I mean, it's just been a beautiful, it's been great.

But as I got to chapter 15, I had that experience based on that question,

Jesus did not sound like he has been.

Sounding from chapter 1 to chapter 14 and I just couldn't shake it and I kept

reading and I'm like why is this why is there a why is there a knot in my stomach

when I read John chapter 15 and so I took a deep dive and I want to you know walk

John 15 · chapter mention

us through that deep dive of John 15 here today amen And so as I said, you know,

we spent all this time in the gospel of John and I'll share some thoughts

and some themes in the gospel of John.

But first I want to be able to read John 15.

Let's see how you hear it and how you feel about it.

Verse one, Jesus says, I am the true vine and my father is the gardener.

He cuts off every branch in me.

That bears no fruit while every branch that does not bear fruit.

He prunes so that it will be more fruitful.

You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

Remain in me as I also remain in you.

No branch can bear fruit by itself.

It must remain in the vine.

Neither can you bear fruit.

Unless you remain in me.

I am the vine, you are the branches.

If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit.

Apart from me, you can do nothing.

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers.

Such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you

wish and it will be done for you.

This is to my father's glory that you bear much fruit.

Showing yourselves to be my disciples and there's more, but we'll stop there.

So again, we've all had that experience, right?

Someone we know and trust tells us something about

someone else we know and trust.

But what this person is telling us about this person doesn't

really sound like that's them.

Again, that happened to me.

I'm reading John chapter 1 through 14.

John 1 · chapter mention

And when I get to chapter 15, I kind of hit a wall.

And up comes this image of a God that I should be afraid of.

Because if I'm not close to this God, he's going to cut me off.

But if I'm close to this God and I bear fruit, now watch out,

now he's going to prune you.

So you can bear even more fruit.

That's how I was reading it.

That's how I was interpreted.

I think that's how we have heard it.

I would even venture to say that's how we've taught it.

And so it made no sense.

Maybe I'm alone here.

Maybe you can relate.

Then we were, we were having a zoom call and those meetings always go great.

And so we're in a zoom call and, you know, it's, uh, it was the beginning of the year

of, uh, I think it was last year or so.

And so we read this passage wanting to be encouraging, wanting to make the

points of remaining in God and abiding in God abide means delighting in God.

But we just, all of us sort of just felt like.

We couldn't get past this imagery of watch out with God.

Watch out with this gardener, because if you're not behaving,

he's going to cut you off.

And not just that, tossed you into the fire to get burned.

That doesn't make sense.

That does not sound like God, because God in chapter 13 has told us, I have come to

save the world, not to condemn the world.

And so today it is my hope to circle around this theme of trusting in

God by looking into this picture.

And hopefully we restore.

This passage.

And we can cast off the image of a God who's out to cut and to

prune just so you can produce.

And restore the true meaning of this passage.

The God who in chapter 14 says I give you my peace who here

he says I give you my love.

And I give you my joy.

And if you're familiar with the fruits of the spirit, those are the first three.

The God who says I love you remain in me because I delight in you

delight in me as I delight in you.

The God who's not looking for us to be performative, but the God who's

looking to form us into his likeness.

So today our task is to restore.

John chapter four, 15 and the correct imagery.

So we have a lot, a little bit of work to do.

Amen.

So let's start with this theme of the gospel of John, and then we'll come

back and dive deep into the meaning of these words in John chapter 15.

John 15 · chapter mention

So let me tell you about the gospel of John a little bit.

There's a ton of questions in the gospel of John.

In fact, Jesus is asked about 52 questions.

And so there's a theme about questions.

But the first human question is, Jesus is walking and there's two of

John the Baptist disciples who have just been told, look, the Lamb of God

who takes away the sin of the world.

And so they're following Jesus.

And so they don't initiate because they're too shy.

God turns around.

God initiates.

And they say, where are you staying?

And that is the first human question.

God, where are you?

You see, the Gospel of John is written in a way where on the

surface it makes perfect sense.

It's very clear, but it's intended that way to invite you to a deeper meaning.

Because when the Gospel of John says that these disciples asked

Jesus, Hey, where are you staying?

On the surface, where are you staying?

And if you read the Gospel, that sounds kind of like an awkward question.

But the deeper meaning is, it's what the Gospel is trying to answer.

Where is God located?

Where is God?

Because it just told us that the word has become flesh, that God

has made his dwelling among us.

And that's not the arrival of God, because that would imply that God was absent.

It is the revelation of God.

That God reveals God's self in human flesh.

And so, now the question is, where is God?

And so this theme of location continues.

Because Jesus goes and speaks to this man named Nathanael.

And Nathanael is prejudiced.

He probably inherited.

But he's like, Nazareth?

North of sea?

Just kidding.

So he says, Nazareth, what can come from there?

Well, Jesus is from there.

Right?

And again, this idea of location.

God isn't supposed to work in that area.

Right?

And so, Jesus says, You're going to see great things.

In fact, you're going to see the angels of God ascending and descending.

Did you get that?

Jesus doesn't say, You're going to see the angels descending and ascending.

Jesus says, You're going to see the angels Ascending.

And he said, because the beginning of the commute of the angels is

the God, the presence of God.

And so if the angels are ascending and descending, where is God here?

And then Jesus goes to the temple, the historical sight of the presence of God.

And what does he do?

He flips the tables.

I just bought this one.

I'm not gonna toss it.

We have to be financially responsible.

And so, he flips the tables.

And in there he describes he drove out cattle and doves.

Doves represents what?

The Holy Spirit.

What is God doing in the temple?

Leaving the temple.

God says you have turned this place into a market.

It is no longer a market.

The house of God.

And again, this question, if this is not the house of God, then where is

the house of God leading us to chapter 14 in my father's house are many

rooms and we're going to get to that.

But this idea, where is God?

Because if we're going to trust in God, we got to identify where God is.

And God is not an absent or distant God.

God is a living, present and active God restoring.

The brokenness of the world in our lives.

And so the disciples say, man, they're reminded later zeal

for his house will consume me.

I think there's also a big misunderstanding there.

We tend to think zeal for his house will consume me that God

was filled with righteous anger.

And that can justify us feeling like we can have that.

But perhaps zeal for his house will consume me was not a zeal, the God that

Jesus has, but it was the temple police, the leadership, the guards that they

were zealous to the point of violence.

So zeal for your house will consume me.

They wanted to protect and control and domesticate God to

the point that they executed God.

to want to keep their status.

A lot of that going around.

And so then Jesus interacts with the Samaritan woman in chapter four, and

she's over associating the presence of God in the mountain of her people.

And God says, Nope, that's not the place of God, but

neither is the Jewish mountain.

There's going to be a third mountain where all people will

be able to worship in spirit.

And in truth, do you see this theme of where the location of God and we can

skip over to John chapter 10, the good shepherd, where it's describing Jesus

John 10 · chapter mention

walking these people out of the temple system that is outdated, broken, corrupt.

No longer the place of God.

And the good shepherd knows his flock.

They know him.

He knows them by name.

They listen to his voice.

He's the shepherd.

He's the door, he's the gate he's.

And so he brings them into a new location where God is present

so that they are no longer

confined to that temple system that is no longer about God, but it's a market.

And God walks them over because God is with us, leading us.

God's always moving God's people.

Things come to an end and that's no longer, that doesn't

necessarily mean a bad thing.

God's good and faithful and he moves us to the new things.

You see that?

And then the resurrection, my favorite character in the

gospel of John Mary Magdalene.

She runs to the resurrected Lord and has on the surface

kind of an awkward interaction.

Jesus says, don't hold on to me, right?

I have not yet ascended to the father.

And I think it's implying that Mary Magdalene was so overjoyed that Jesus

is back that she thought things were going to be the same before the cross.

And we tend to do that as human, in our human nature.

We tend to want to go back to the past and relive the good old days.

And sometimes we don't discern, discern that the present living

God is doing something new.

Are you with me right here?

And so God is always doing something new, moving us.

But God is always living, present, and active.

And then Jesus gets into this discourse of the kind of, it's called the kind

of the farewell discourse from chapter 13 till about chapter 18 or 17.

And he begins to say, I am returning to the father.

And we understand that as he's leaving.

And I think that's a dominant image that is hurting our Christianity, our faith,

how we interpret scripture, how we.

Uh, view God and how we see ourselves.

Think about how important all those things are.

And I think there's this ongoing imagination where we feel like God left.

He ascended.

He left.

But, but he left me with a commission to fulfill the mission

he was not able to complete.

And now it's up to me.

To save the world for the absent God who one day will return.

And when we live that way after a decade or two, you're just burned out because

you can't carry on what is God's.

But that's a wrong and God never left.

God is a living present God.

And so when Jesus talks about the Ascension, he's not taught or departure.

That sounds like leaving.

That doesn't, that is not what it means.

What it means is departure and ascension is God.

This is us, this is earth, and here's Jesus.

And we're, we see him.

Departure and ascension means a return to invisibility, but still present.

And so our God, in his ascension and departure, does, did not leave.

He's just now invisible.

And why is that important?

Because the word became flesh.

The incarnation is super important, but the incarnation

is limited to a geographical location and to a historical time.

You get that?

Jesus was bound to a geographical location and time, but in taking the

cross and in the pouring out of God's self, the Holy Spirit, God is now present.

In all, at all times, in all places.

So where is your God, brothers and sisters?

We can trust in the living, present and active God.

So when I read John 15, I'm like, why do I feel scared?

Because I think what has happened.

Generally speaking,

is I think we have read most of the Bible with predetermined answers.

And it no longer surprises many of us, it no longer encourages.

I was there.

I confess, I was bored reading the gospels.

I felt like I already knew what they were.

I felt like I already knew what they said.

That sounds so arrogant.

Like I didn't say this out loud because I would have felt like

probably that's how I felt.

So I would just skip through them, but the Gospels are so unique.

All four of them are very different and distinct for a purpose.

I know some of us are great fans of the show, the show, the chosen.

I've never seen an episode.

I hear great things about it.

I am not saying you shouldn't.

I'm just letting you know, making a point here that the God, the

chosen seems to just blend all four.

That's cool.

I'm sure it's really encouraging.

Keep watching it.

This is the abundance of God.

There's a lot of goodness out there.

But just note, the Gospels were intended to be distinct for

a reason, not to be blended.

Because every Gospel is written for a unique audience going through

something unique and different.

It's intended that way so that every church in every generation has an

interaction with the living and present God through the Gospels.

So we can ask ourselves as a region in OC, what gospel world are we in?

In our local ministries, what gospel world are we in?

For the South OC, we have discerned that we are in the gospel of

Mark and we're gonna be walking with Jesus in the gospel of Mark.

I say all that to say let's learn or reread the Gospels

without predetermined answers.

I think John 15 sometimes sounds harsh to many of us because it has

been influenced with ancient stones from interpreters, preachers like me.

who go to that passage to warn you to behave otherwise you're going

to get cut off and to be humble and sacrificial because if you're bearing

fruit God's going to keep pruning you because what matters is the fruit which

is ironic because it's the opposite of what Jesus is saying the goal is

remaining and yes bearing fruit that when you're accompanied by God But

again, let's put some pieces together.

If we believe God left and is absent and it's up to us to do the work,

how are you going to bear fruit?

How are you going to remain in God?

But if God is living, present, and active, and in mission, Yes,

we need to be connected with God.

Yes, God calls us to bear good fruit because he's working in our lives.

He's working in the lives of our family members, of our classmates,

of our schools, of our communities.

And so we need to learn how to join what God is doing.

God is in mission, right?

And so when we share our hope and our faith and our perspective and

our convictions in our lives with others, we're not the teachers.

to show them what we're partners with them, helping them discern

what has got up to in your life.

And then it becomes a conversation about God.

And hey, let me show you these scriptures that may give you some

answers to what God might be up to.

You see what I'm saying?

There is a healthier, better way that is more God.

It's not centered and there's a lot of work that we got to do for that.

We can get into another time.

And finally, why does this passage sound so complicated and scary?

It's a lot of times taken out of context, right?

And here's for the second and third decade students.

There's a mistranslation in this passage.

Okay.

There's many, I'm not going to explain all the translations and all that, but.

But here it goes.

The NIV says, he cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every

branch that does not bear fruit, he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

Cut off is an inaccurate translation in most of our Bibles.

All right, this is why it's important to get dive in and study

and all these different things.

very much.

Amen.

That word shouldn't say cut off.

It should say lift up, take away, carry, or clean.

It's the word arrow.

Uh, you know, my, my Greek has a Spanish accent.

Okay.

So John uses this arrow multiple times and it never means cut off.

Let me give you some examples.

In John chapter one, behold, the lamb of God who takes away, who lifts up.

The sin of the world.

John 2 16.

Take these things away.

Stop making my father's house into a market or trade.

Jesus said to him, get up when he's talking to the paralytic.

Take your mat and walk.

Lift up.

You see that?

John 10, 18, no one takes from me, but I lay down my life on my own accord.

By the way, Jesus was joyfully taken the cross in John chapter

John 10 · chapter mention

10 in the gospel of John.

Every branch in me that bears no fruit, he takes up, takes away.

So let's see this.

Let's change the translation.

Oh, by the way, if we want to argue, no, it means cut off.

Actually, John knows how to write cut off in the Greek.

He uses it in John chapter 18 verse 10.

John 18:10

Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the

servant's priest, cutting off.

And yet that's not the word that's used in John chapter 15 verse two.

John 15 · chapter mention

Ha ha.

By the way, Peter was not aiming for the ear.

He was aiming for the throat.

This man was a believer in God, but still had violence.

That's why Jesus had a compass.

And appeared to him and restore him because he believed in

God, but it was still about violence, like the temple system.

That's a whole other sermon right there, but I guess you got a free one.

Happy New Year.

And so John knows how to write cut off, so let's adjust it.

I am the true vine and my father is the gardener.

He lifts up every branch in me.

That bears no fruit.

Well, every branch that does bear fruit, he pruned so that

it will be even more fruitful.

So God, the gardener, the vine dresser, he's not out looking.

Let's see if you measure up.

But now you're getting cut, but he's looking, Hey, you're ill spiritually.

You're disconnected.

You're spiritually blind.

You are hard hearted, cynical, and critical.

You have just gone, you've been going through the motions for so long.

God's not upset with you at that.

And he's not going to cut you off.

What is he going to do?

He's going to lift you up.

Let's talk about vines here.

So in those days, in that gen, in that era, there's not a whole lot of wood.

If you go to, you know, wineries and all that here, you see all the woods in kind

of the vines on the top because you don't want those branches to touch the floor.

Because if they stay, remain in the floor for a long time, they start growing roots.

And now you're connected to the vine, but you're connected.

You have your own roots.

You see what I'm saying?

So they didn't use wood.

What they would do is they would get rocks, a lot of rocks in the Middle East.

And so you lift up those branches that were ill and you place them

on a rock, something like this.

I hope I don't get electrocuted or burn the place down, right?

Now you put a rock under it there because it's ill so it

can, so it can get sunlight.

So it doesn't develop other roots, but it stays connected to the root.

So that it gets nutrients.

So that it can remain.

Because God is God who wants to save the world, not condemn the world.

And so, as that work took place, I can now read John 15.

It's still convicting, it's inspiring, but it's not threatening me and

giving me an image that is not true.

True or accurate to the character and actions of the living present God.

And so if God lifts up every branch that bears no fruit, when we are ill

and when we become those things and we will, and we have been, and we

will again, that I just described the faithful, good God lives us up now,

we must respond to that lifting up.

We must choose to be lifted up.

We must choose to get the help to get the correction to get the, you

know, to remain connected to God.

And then later it describes, right?

If you are, if you do get disconnected, you die off.

That's not God's doing.

That's our doing.

That's the consequences of our decision.

So we have a healthy relationship and image of God and we have a

healthy responsibility of ourselves.

That's a good match.

That's good Christianity right there.

But if you choose to be disconnected, yeah, the Bible describes you die

off and it says you are picked up and thrown into the fire.

But please note it does not say God picks you up and throws you into the fire.

If you read it in the context, it's just consequential.

That's not of God's doing.

So it's not God who cuts you off and it's not God who tosses,

tosses you into the fire.

So can we please not have that kind of image of God because

that's not true to scripture.

So fear and threats should not be the way we motivate one another,

but helping us see the presence of the living God.

The activity of the living God, the unfailing love of the living God.

And it is truly our responsibility to respond and be faithful and

loyal to the God who loves us.

And so the God is the gardener, The vine dresser, he carries

each branch that's ill.

He lifts them to receive sunlight and nutrients lifts

them to avoid competing roots.

He lifts them to ensure a thriving connection with the vine producing

healthy fruit and some of that fruit is Jesus gives us his peace.

There's no anxiety worry because when we start fearing you start making

bad decisions, you start trying to take your back your life back and try

to control outcomes and you become someone you were not created to be.

God says, I give you my love because if we're not connected and believe that God

loves us, we end up looking for love in all these different places and meaning and

belonging in all these different places that only leave us more scarred and hurt.

But if we allow God to love us,

then we can bear that fruit.

And God says, I give you my joy.

All of that is fruits of the spirit that come about from us abiding, delighting and

remaining and being connected with God.

And again, this is not just I'm just receiving.

No, it's participating.

It's participating because God, that fruit is what that fruit is

for the sake of others to feed, to strengthen, to encourage, to invite.

It's not self serving, it's outward focus, not with you as the Savior and the

protagonist, but with God leading the way.

So I think today we re read this passage and maybe the entire

Gospel of John with fresh eyes.

We rediscovered a more accurate meaning.

And we released the ancient stones that others have imposed on passages like this.

Let's approach John 15 with a deeper understanding of, of God's character.

May we cultivate a healthier image of God honoring the

scriptures, especially the gospels.

May we allow God to continue transforming how we see God, how

we see ourselves, and others.

He who has ears, let him hear the word of the Lord.

Here's my wife.

Tina: Well, um, I wanted to just help guide us as we go

into communion right now.

We're going to have a few moments to have a time of reflection

and thank you, Martin, for all the things that you've shared.

Um, this year will be my 25th year of being a Christian.

And similar to what Martin said about himself, after reading God's

word every day for decades, you can sometimes be a little disillusioned,

or at least I was about what I read and what these pre-determined

answers of what God is saying.

And many times going to God's word trying to find out what do I

need today versus a letting versus allowing God's word to take me.

And these last few years of going deeper into God's word, reading God's

word slower, trying to learn and be present in what God is trying to reveal

has literally been life changing.

And even reading passages like we read today, it may be one passage,

but reading it and being present and asking God to take us versus us

taking God, um, can really change the way that we read God's word.

So we have three questions up here.

So, I have a couple of questions here and I'm going to read them.

What's?

So, the first one is what surprised you the most from

today's lesson, study, and why?

And we like to ask this question because God is always working and

sometimes there's something that surprises you that you never thought

of, you never considered, right?

Second, if we truly believe that God is living, present, and active in

our lives and the world, How does that reshape the way we connect

with God personally as a church and how we share about God with others?

And lastly, number three, how does the contrast between cut off and lift up

in John 15 deepen your understanding of God's actions and character?

Why is it important to understand God's the difference between

these two images, and how does it influence how you will, sorry, how

we perceive God's work in our lives.

So a practice that we like to do is take a moment, a few moments, and

with someone near you, around you, you don't need to get up answer.

We'll just one of these questions.

So someone next to you, someone across from you, someone behind

someone with someone behind you, you.

answer one of these questions and then we'll have time to pray for communion.

So I'll give you about three minutes, four minutes.

Thank you.