Growing in Faith at Trinity, and practicing Sabbath | Trinity Talks Podcast

Well, good morning, Ted and Carol.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Yes, we're still in the morning.

Thank you for joining me here.

We now have a new name for this studio, by the way, for Trinity Talks.

It's Studio T. You may see that we have a sign on our window.

We're starting to brand ourselves.

So welcome to Studio T.

Thank you.

This is incredible.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

So you've both been a part of Trinity for a couple years now, right?

Quite some time.

Ten years.

Ten years.

Okay.

Actually, I think we may have started around the same time then.

We figured that out this morning.

Oh, yeah.

Better late than never.

So I was wondering if you'd like to take the next half hour with me to talk a little bit

about your experience here at Trinity and maybe some of the different ways that you've

been involved.

I know that you've both been involved in Trinity in several different ways.

And one of those ways is actually in a life group.

So maybe we could also talk a little bit about your experience in a life group here.

That'd be great.

And if we have time, maybe even go through some of the sermon questions that Rob has

put out to talk about the sermon.

We'll try our best.

We'll get right through those.

But first, you've mentioned that you were married.

Could you tell us how long you have been married for?

52 years.

52 years.

So is that 52 years this year or are you going to be 53 this year?

53 in June.

All right.

So you've spent some time together.

So could you tell us maybe a little bit something special about your marriage and maybe something

that has been important to you as you've grown together as a couple?

I'd say the first thing is that Ted became a Christian when he was 35.

Because of you?

Well, and I think that made a difference in the way we grew together.

And I think the other thing that I would say is really important is we were friends before

we were lovers.

So our friendship was the basis of our marriage.

That's beautiful.

It still is.

We're retired now.

And I think we've always deferred to each other.

And we have disagreements, but we do not quarrel.

And we always give way to the other and never go to bed angry.

So would that be some advice that you would have to give for anyone else out there?

I would recommend that to anyone, yes.

Oh, that's beautiful.

Well done and congratulations.

But I've got a few more fun questions to ask about your marriage then.

So you've obviously lived together for quite some time.

So I was wondering, you said you never quarrel.

I'm going to ask you some questions to see if you agree on these questions.

Who between the two of you would you say is the better cook?

Me.

Oh, definitely.

I second that.

That's an easy one.

All right.

OK, what about better driver?

I think I'm the better driver.

And if I'm in the car, I drive.

OK.

All right.

And do you agree, Carol?

Yes.

All right.

What about better listener?

I think that's me again.

Yeah, I think Carol is probably the better listener because I do a lot more talking than

she does.

So she better be the better listener.

Now last one.

Who's the loudest snorer?

Do we snore?

Do we snore?

Yeah, we do snore.

Probably me.

Yeah.

But I don't know, because I never think I snore.

So not loud enough to wake anyone up?

No.

OK, well, then that's great.

All right.

So how long have you been at Trinity for?

I'm wondering.

Ten years now.

So we figured it out this morning.

Ten years.

OK.

Were you at another church previously?

Oh, yeah.

All right.

So what brought you to this church?

A church fracturing dispute brought us to Trinity.

We were, as Ted says, we were refugees.

Oh my God.

Yeah, I was in senior leadership at this church.

There was an issue amongst the leadership.

I tried for a year to be the go between to reconcile people, and it didn't work.

It fractured, ended up in litigation, and we just said we have to leave.

So we did.

And so you found Trinity Church.

We knew friends at the church and we also knew Mark because we had gone to Israel on

a trip in 2012, which he was one of the leaders.

And Mark was the pastor at the time.

He was the pastor.

And we came just to try this out.

It's a long way from where we live.

We walked in and we thought this is the place for us.

And you never went back.

So that would have been what?

2013?

2013.

So that's the same year that I joined the church.

Now here in the life of the church, you have found different ministries to get involved

in over the years.

I know that.

I've seen you out there volunteering or participating.

Could you each maybe just take a turn telling us as listeners what you have, maybe where

you found your calling or where you've even tried to help out in the ministries?

Well, we started off involved in Alpha.

We had been involved in Alpha at other churches, so that was a natural for us.

From that, we got into a small group, which we now call a life group right away.

And that engagement has been a major factor in our lives that we find very rewarding.

We've also been involved in, Carol is involved in the prayer ministry.

I've done, I do the prayers of the people occasionally in church.

And we both were very active in the refugee program.

And I was a treasurer of the refugee group.

And from that, I've ended up getting involved with all kinds of other refugee situations

not involved in by the church.

Okay.

So I've been in the kitchen for every, I think every Alpha, but maybe one since I came here,

both preparing the meal and then cleaning up afterwards.

And I've done, I'm in the prayer ministry.

I'm a Stephen minister now.

I also serve communion.

So keep busy.

So you keep busy and you've probably met a lot of people in the church through those

different events.

And also, I forgot to say, I've been involved a little bit in the women's ministry.

That's great.

That's great.

So here at the church, you found yourself quite involved.

And I'm wondering if you have any experiences to share with how you've grown in your faith

since you've been at this church or maybe just over your Christian lives.

I was thinking about this question and I think the thing about Trinity that really resonates

with me is this is a church where Jesus is the focus.

This is a New Testament church.

It resonates with me.

Contemporary music is something that I enjoy and believe strongly in.

And I have grown through the sermons.

Sermons are very important here at Trinity, particularly Rob's sermons.

I get something out of each one of them.

I learn something new every time I hear one of his sermons.

And we expand on that in the small group.

So through that, you know, your faith is like a snowball that grows slowly over time.

And you can't identify necessarily how it's growing, but it's growing.

You know it's growing.

And so I found that to be very rewarding, both the sermons and the life group participation.

Excellent.

And actually, that's a first of all, I like the snowball analogy.

That's a beautiful analogy of how faith can grow slowly over time.

But it's also a great segue into my next question, which is about life groups.

You mentioned you're in a life group.

And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what that looks like.

In fact, just for everyone who's listening, we were talking a little bit before this show

started that all the life groups look a little bit different in terms of how they're structured,

what they talk about, maybe even what their focus is on, despite all of them having the

foundation of LIFE, which is Learning, Insight, Fellowship and Encouragement.

So maybe you want to just take some turns telling us as listeners what your life group

looks like.

Our life group is quite diverse, and it's grown.

There is a core group of about eight.

But the last meeting we had 14 people.

Wow.

That's really the outer limit of being able to have an in-depth conversation.

Because if you got more than that, nobody, I mean, everyone doesn't get a chance to say

what they actually think.

So we don't tackle the questions one by one.

We sometimes, the leaders make up their own.

And sometimes people just sort of sit and listen while others answer the questions.

That's fair.

That's fair.

We learn through listening.

I think, again, as Carol says, our group is quite diverse.

We've had many people come and go.

This group was originally started by Tammy Nanku after Alpha about 10 years ago.

And I have been tasked with being the leader for many years to organize conversations and

try to have some in-depth comments and so on.

Bill Scullin has joined our group over the last three years, and he and I now share this.

It's not something that I necessarily insist on doing.

I'm quite happy to let other people do it, but they seem to be happy to let Bill and

I do the heavy lifting in preparing the group.

So we take the questions that Rob puts out for us.

We use some of them.

Many of them we ignore.

Sometimes we disagree with the way he deals with an issue.

And everybody in our group, people are all at different levels of their faith journey.

And we're ethnically diverse, which is a good thing.

And we're diverse in age as well.

I think I'm the oldest person there.

Yeah.

Carol agrees.

Yeah, there you go.

I'm only a year younger.

So that's how it goes.

And so Alan and Kathy Graham host us.

We've been in different homes over the years, but for the last many years they have been

the host.

They are such gracious hosts.

Everything is informal.

It's friendly.

It's not intimidating for anyone who wishes to join.

Everything is confidential.

Whatever you share, we have a wonderful prayer time together at the end where we all share

the issues on our hearts.

And I think every time I leave, and I think for most of the people, we feel uplifted and

I frequently find I have learned something new and something that the Holy Spirit has

worked on us in the time we've had together.

So it's just a wonderful experience.

And if you've never done it, you really should get involved with a life group.

It is a wonderful supplement to our time together here in the sanctuary on Sundays.

That's beautifully said.

So as you mentioned, you sometimes work through some of the sermon questions that are put

out there.

You do look at them critically and discern which would be appropriate for your group

to work through.

And sometimes you make up your own.

So I do have a copy of some of the sermon questions that were put out from this somewhat,

I think, challenging sermon that we heard today on the Sabbath.

It was challenging.

It was challenging.

But anyway, the sermon series has been called Playing with Fire, where Jesus challenged

some of the important symbols or traditions of the day and reframed them in a new way.

And today's focus was on the Sabbath.

So Jesus claimed himself to be Lord over the Sabbath.

And he actually said the Son of Man is Lord over the Sabbath.

And I'm wondering if you want to talk a little bit about, this is the question here, what

this statement means in the context of Jesus being the embodiment of Sabbath rest.

So out of the sermon, this is the most challenging thing that I took from the sermon.

I was anticipating some of the other things that Rob said, but I did not anticipate this

take on Jesus being the Lord of the Sabbath.

So if I understand his thesis, and I'll have to work on this a bit more because I have

to lead this group on Tuesday.

No better time than now.

So I think what he's trying to say to us is, in Jewish theology, there was the concept

of the Sabbath every seven days.

There was a concept of the Sabbath year every seven years.

And then there was a concept of the Jubilee year after every 49 years.

And that was all looking forward to an end of time idea.

And Jesus says, the time is nigh, the time is here.

I have fulfilled this aspiration.

So because Jesus is saying this about himself, he is saying he is Lord of the Sabbath, the

Sabbath being a yearning for a time in which there will be a reconciliation, there will

be a revelation, and everything will come together.

And so Jesus is saying, it's happening now with me.

I wonder if it was also a Jubilee year that year.

Yes.

Or a Sabbath year.

Yes.

I mean, these large crowds of people are following Jesus around, so they weren't working.

So maybe it was a Sabbath year.

That would actually be something great to look into.

Yeah, who knows?

Look into when that next Jubilee year was happening or if it was happening at that point.

That's a great question, Carol.

Now I would like to just discuss the shift of the Sabbath being just about the cessation

of work.

And we know Jesus did some work on the Sabbath to being more about the resurrection of life.

So how does this perspective influence our understanding of the purpose of rest and the

connection to acts of justice and compassion and generosity?

So that's a big question.

That's yours.

I think everyone's body needs rest, physical rest.

So a Sabbath day is a good idea.

I think what Jesus was saying perhaps is, as Rob said, we can have rest in Jesus every

day.

And we need to be doing good whenever we can, whether it's on a Sabbath or a regular day.

And as retired people, perhaps we have a better chance to do that because we don't have to

go to work.

But it's important.

This was a new idea to me.

I hadn't thought of it as being resurrection life.

I think it's going to require mindfulness to sort of look for ways to do good and to

rest simultaneously.

It is a challenge.

Yeah.

So I have, you may notice in my prayers, when I have the chance to do prayers of the people

in church, I often emphasize, because I think of this myself, that each of us has kingdom

work to do.

And we may not recognize it as kingdom work in our lives as we go about our daily lives,

whether we're working to earn money or whether we're retired.

But kingdom work is there.

And it can be giving encouragement to someone.

It can be helping somebody in some way that needs to be done.

It can be sharing your faith with somebody.

It can be all kinds of things.

And people, or maybe it's just showing up.

We all do these things.

And to feel that this is what you're being called to do by the Holy Spirit and being

aware of those things at the time is something that we all need to work on.

And so Jesus' major thing with the healing on the Sabbath is that it is lawful, it is

appropriate to do acts of mercy on the Sabbath, which is what He was doing.

If you take Sabbath time, you have the opportunity to get rid of all the chattering monkeys in

your head and all the stuff that comes at us.

We have such a toxic life that we live with all of these things happening to us.

If you are still, then you will hear God's word coming to you.

You will get an inkling to do something that is kingdom work.

Well kingdom work, it's doing good in some way for other people.

And each of us does these things without realizing what we're doing.

But you must be in tune with the Holy Spirit in order to respond to these things.

These come to you to do an act of mercy, calling a person who is suffering, helping somebody

with anything that is troubling them in their lives.

All of these things, our kingdom work matters.

And if we are totally wrapped up in ourselves, our cell phones, our texting, our messages,

our TV, or whatever the distractions are in our lives, it's hard to do this.

We live very complex lives.

If we were living simple lives in a small African village with very basic things to

do, we would be more open to spiritual calling.

And so this is what I see as being Sabbath in our day-to-day life.

And Rob talked about Sabbath not necessarily being a day, but a time and the use of your

time.

And that resonated with me.

That's great.

That's great.

And actually something that I think we can just as we go forward in the week, really

think about.

And it does take some intentionality.

And it takes some prayerful meditation even, just to really discern those moments.

That's right.

Yeah, it does.

And if anyone missed the sermon, it's a great one to go back to as well.

If you are interested in looking at the sermon questions, you can find them online.

I don't really have any more questions for you today about that, but I would love to

be a fly on the wall in your life group one time and just listen to the conversations

that you're having, because I'm sure they're even more in-depth than this.

But I would love to just get the insight.

And that's one of the great things I have about this job is getting insight from people

like yourselves as we go through these questions together.

Thank you.

I think of Rob's sermon series, the toughest ones for me were the first one about the land

and then this one about Sabbath.

His interpretation of the Sabbath issue is a really insightful one that we need to spend

some time thinking about.

Thank you.

Yeah, that's right.

And to recap, we talked about the land, we talked about the law.

Do you remember what the third one was?

It was that family.

That was family.

Yes, it was family.

That was a tough one as well.

I actually asked you because I was trying to remember myself.

It was family.

And then last week it was the temple.

That's right.

And that one was relatively easy to grasp.

And then today, Sabbath, I thought it was easy to grasp, but Rob has given us some interesting

thoughts, which I had no idea would be the basis of Jesus saying that he is the Lord

of the Sabbath.

So we'll work on this and we'll have an interesting discussion next Tuesday.

That's great.

Well, I just want to take the moment now to thank you for joining me and taking the time

out of your coffee hour to come and sit with me here at Trinity Talks.

And maybe I'll have you again on Sometime Again.