Keeping the Cross Central in Christianity | Trinity Talks Podcast

Good morning, guys.

Good morning.

Thank you for joining me today for Trinity Talks episode.

This is our Trinity Talks podcast that we have in between our two services here at Trinity.

And it's a pleasure to be joined with Susan and Diane and Linda.

Thanks for agreeing to come into the show and miss your coffee hour.

Thanks for having us.

So I just wanted to let everyone who's watching know that these three women are all part of

a life group.

And if you don't know what a life group is, a life group is what some churches call small

groups, which is where people meet regularly outside of the Sunday morning service.

And as I said, it's regularly meeting.

You grow together in friendship and in faith and encouragement, oftentimes going through

some sermon questions or just developing in faith together and I assume just supporting

one another.

So today I was hoping that we could learn a little bit more about what your life group

looks like, as well as maybe talk through some of the sermon questions from the sermon

that we just heard.

How does that sound?

Great.

All right.

So let's find out a little bit more about your life group.

I did a little research and right now I believe there's about eight people in your life group.

All right.

Yes.

But I know that it's ever changing and ever evolving.

But how long has it been running for your particular life group?

Our group's been going about eight years.

About eight years.

Yeah.

And we meet every Tuesday night from seven to nine in the basement of the church.

Okay.

It's for women only 55 years and over.

And we usually talk about the questions from the service, but quite often, like when there's

a session going on in the church, like the Sabbath that we're having right now, we'll

come as a group to that.

Instead of meeting Tuesday night, we'll meet to Wednesday night if the group decides that.

And if they decide they don't want to do that, then we might even do the same course, but

on the Tuesday night.

Oh, okay.

So I'm going to use this as an advertisement moment.

Anyone 55 and older?

Ladies?

Yeah.

We'd love to have you join our group.

So there's another space at the table.

There is.

Always another space at the table.

In fact, I've been down to that room.

There's a lot of seating.

Yes.

Now, Diane, could you tell me a little bit about what the average session looks like?

So you all meet together downstairs.

Yeah, sure.

So first we'll start off about chatting, how our week was.

We give everybody a chance to share that.

It's a nice way to open it up.

Then we'll do a prayer, ask the Holy Spirit to come in and guide our questions in our

session.

Instead of going right to the questions, a lot of times we will start off with a discussion

about what spoke to you during that sermon, or did something evoke a feeling?

Or things like that.

So we'll open it up that way and go around the room.

Then we'll go to the questions, have a look at them, and see if there's something that

we haven't talked about.

And usually there is something to provoke some more discussion and great opportunity

for learning.

Yeah, so we'll do that.

One of the nice things about our group is that we have lots of good humor.

And our ability to laugh with each other, I should say, as we're growing, learning to

change some of our ways and develop new character traits towards Jesus.

So we have great boundaries in our group as well.

So we like to have everybody have a time to share and to be heard.

So that's really important for us.

Whatever's said in our group stays in our group, so there's total amenity.

And sometimes during the week, lots of times Sue might send something out, or Linda or

another member, an inspiring scripture that they read during that week, and a prayer that

they wanted to share.

So we try and stay connected that way too.

I mentioned that we have lots of great laughter, but we also sometimes have tears.

And we have members sometimes going through difficult times.

And our group will bring meals, say prayers, have Zoom meetings to get caught up if we

need to, if the person can't attend.

We'll go for dinner sometimes, meet up for movies or Christian concerts.

We usually shut down during the summer, but we love to get together for dinners and we

can't wait to get caught up.

By the time September arrives, we can't wait to get started and connect again weekly.

So that's our group.

That's beautiful.

So it actually extends beyond the weekly meetings.

When you're speaking about those things that you do, it reminds me of something that we

often say about our life groups is doing life together.

So when you say you have tears, you have laughs, you stay connected through the week, you make

allowances over Zoom, you do meals.

That's beautiful.

And that only comes, I think, from growing in relationship with one another.

So it's really nice to hear.

And it's so encouraging, I think, for other people who might be considering life groups

to see that this is the type of experience you might be able to expect if you join a

group like this.

So Susan, what encouraged you to want to even join a life group in the first place?

Okay, well, I've been part of a lot of life groups over the years.

And then I went through a kind of season in my life where I was busy with other things.

So I hadn't been part of a group for a number of years.

So last year I took a course, an online course with Trinity called Be Still.

And yeah, these ladies were in my breakout group.

And during that time, I just realized how much I missed being in a life group and having

people to share my faith with and my questions and to talk to.

So I asked if I could join the group and they welcomed me.

And they said yes.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's been great.

Yeah, wonderful.

And it's a place where we discuss our faith and we all seem to really just enjoy our discussions

together.

And as Diane said, we have laughter, lots of fun, and we also are there for each other

in, you know, sad times as well.

So yeah, it's been just great.

So yeah.

Wonderful.

What a great story.

I guess that you joined sort of within this past year.

Yes.

And it was the Be Still course.

Well, Diane and Linda, you must have made quite the impression on us.

Right now we're actually doing the Sabbath course, which I think you alluded to.

And we have some people who are also looking to possibly join life groups.

So I guess it's my prayer too that those people might find or walk into a group or a table

and see some hope in a life group there.

So that's great.

Now, Diane, how did you, so you've been in the life group longer than Susan.

How did you come to want to join a group, a small group?

For me, I think it was, you know, years ago when I was searching, you know, new in my

faith, I just kind of wanted to belong to something like a group to grow and understand

and to grow spiritually in my faith.

But what I found is that I really enjoy a study that has questions that are incorporating

scriptures rather than just at that time learning to just read the Bible on my own.

I didn't find I was finding that deep learning and understanding.

So you know, I found it confusing sometimes.

So when I joined the life group, it was a place to unpack the Bible or sermon study

questions and being led by the Holy Spirit, that really drawed me to it as well.

And deeper understanding developed, you know, the more I went in different groups and over

the years.

So it kind of happened after that.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's really interesting.

Thank you.

And what about you, Linda?

I think for me, I wanted to take my Christian journey a little bit deeper.

I felt like I was part of the one and done crowd.

You know, you go to church on Sunday and I'm done till next Sunday.

So I sort of wanted to do a little bit more.

So I felt Diane and I actually used to go to a different church on Wednesdays who would

do the minister would do like a little bit of a Bible study.

And I thought, well, that's what we need something in the middle of the week.

So then when they started doing the life groups again, and everything was getting up, I thought,

you know, this is exactly what we need.

And it's been a great, great venture.

That's wonderful.

Well, then you mentioned that you guys do walk through the sermon questions, which are

posted every week here at Trinity, usually just right after the sermon.

And sometimes they're more challenging and sometimes they're a little easier to go through.

But for anyone who hasn't had a chance to see those sermon questions yet, you can actually

find them on our website.

They're under services and sermon questions.

And there's always a link to the most recent sermon questions that's right up there at

the top of the page.

You can also request from our office and we will actually send them to you as well.

Now I have a copy of the sermon questions that our guest preacher, Reverend Peter Mills,

sent out.

And we were actually just chatting for the audience.

We were just chatting before about this topic being a little bit heavy.

And we are just going to walk through some of these questions and sort of try our best

just the way you would, I think, in your own groups.

So the very first question that Peter suggested that some churches overlook the significance

of the cross.

In fact, I think during his sermon, he talked about that he gave us a percentage of how

much of the gospels are actually dedicated to the passion.

So that final week of Jesus's life, it's considerably significant.

It's almost like time just slows down and so much is recorded.

And yet we probably don't speak as much about that during our church days.

And when we're looking at the scriptures.

So why do you think, maybe not so much why do you think churches overlook the cross,

but how can we ensure maybe that the cross stays central in our faith?

Well, I had written down here in advance, Christ offered himself to God through external

spirit and his resurrection.

Jesus crucified Christ has become a life giving spirit for us all to receive.

Jesus didn't only die for our sins, he was crucified to terminate every negative thing,

including our bad habits, old ways, addictions, whatever our stumbling blocks are.

And the powers received when we turn to him in his spirit and all the time inviting him

into the areas of our lives that we're struggling in.

And I guess there's different ways that we can keep the cross central in daily life.

For me, it's praying in prayer, asking God into every situation, sometimes journaling,

having a gratitude list, being thankful, but always keeping him front and center.

Which I like that you said having lists and journals.

So that's some discipline involved in actually ensuring that that happens.

Yeah.

Now any other thoughts on that?

I thought Peter touched on that a little in the sermon in that on the cross, Jesus is,

that's where we meet Jesus more or less on our level because he is suffering.

Because we suffer and so that is central to our faith.

That humanness of him.

Now our sermon series that we've been working through is the famous last words.

So in this sermon, we focused around the words, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Which is actually a quote from Psalm 22, which some people may not have known if they've

just heard this, but Jesus is actually quoting scripture.

And I'm wondering what you think the significance of Jesus quoting scripture in this moment

of despair is.

I thought too, he touched on that like firstly that he, when he mentioned that, why didn't

he quote Psalm 23, you know, but he said that like, and I thought this is honest prayer

of one who has experienced complete separation from God and that honest prayer is good.

And so it's also a light to us when we're in our darkest hours that, and we feel separated

from God that, you know, this is what we do.

We cry out to him.

Yes.

So he, Jesus, what you're saying is he, he was honest and he also gave us a model for

how to pray in that moment as well in despair at all.

Wow.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Now, Peter also mentioned that there's this tension between seeing Jesus as a possible

superhero.

In fact, he mentioned Batman, which was just show of hands.

Who remembers the Batman cartoon, TV show.

And also, so there's this tension between seeing him as the superhero, but then also

seeing him as enduring this profound suffering where we know as Christians that Jesus had

the power to take himself down from the cross and demonstrate this superhero like power.

And yet he chooses to endure this intense and insane suffering.

So how do you think that this tension between seeing Jesus's two different types of powers

that he ops, that he kind of has to choose between, help us understand Jesus's character

more?

I think for me, I think it helps us to remember that Jesus was human.

I mean, quite often we think of Jesus, he's on a pedestal, he's healing people, he's doing

everything, but he was a human being and he was treated like a human being shunned and

scorned for his beliefs, having to go through this agony.

So by us seeing that helps us relate that he is human and that if he can do it, that

we can try to do it also when we're in suffering in our life.

Yeah.

Can you imagine if Jesus had gotten down from the cross?

We would say, wow, look at that power, but ultimately what good would that have done?

Right.

It wouldn't have done us any good.

Too bad we couldn't do it.

We sure can.

So maybe we can consider now, there's one question that says, consider times in your

life when you felt abandoned or rejected by others.

And we don't have to share too many personal experiences, but how does Jesus experience

of abandonment on the cross by his own father offer comfort and hope in these moments to

us?

Well, I have to say that there's been many times, and I'm sure a lot of us have felt

abandonment in our lives.

And in being honest with myself, I've even felt abandoned by God himself in times.

And when that usually happens, I'll wallow in self-pity for a bit and I'll get mad at

God and I'll pray, even why have you left me?

Because I just felt like I'm just by myself, but always in the middle of that, it's like

my inner faith just seems to bubble to the surface and it's like, don't forget I'm here.

And that just sort of refocuses me.

And sometimes I think we need to feel this anguish just to realize when things get better,

what we've accomplished and how we've made it through it.

And I think of Jesus on the cross and how much he believed in God, but he also had a

moment where he hung there in agony and didn't know what to do and had the same feelings

that we have in our time when we just can't seem to get out of this pit.

And like I said, he just seems to give us a strength to feel that if he can do it, then

at least we can try.

I mean, we may not be able to do what he's done, but at least we can try to pull ourselves

out.

Yep, absolutely.

And that he's there with us.

Yes, yes.

I love that.

But it's amazing how our Christianity, when you think you've lost it, all of a sudden

it's like a little whisper in your ear, I'm still here.

I'm still here.

And I understand.

Yeah.

That's really nice.

I love it.

I love it.

And let's discuss as well, just sort of finally to wrap up the implications of Jesus's sacrifice

on the cross for our own lives.

So he made this huge sacrifice.

How does his willingness to endure abandonment and suffering inspire us to persevere in our

own faith journeys?

And I think Linda, you sort of touched on this already.

Well, I'd probably add in there that, well, Jesus embraced his death with grace and dignity

and keeping his focus on the Father.

And when, you know, when Christians face problems, feel lonely, abandoned, suffering, Jesus fixes

us or invites us to fix our mind on him and to keep focused on him in all situations and

to keep coming to him until the answer, you know, is there.

So for me, one of the things is I don't like to make decisions until I have that peace.

So I found that is the guidance that he provides for me when there's a major thing where I

don't know what to do.

And it's a peace.

Yes.

That's beautiful.

Or an answer.

An answer.

I don't know if it's a peace all the time, but it's an answer or direction.

That's awesome.

Wonderful.

I love that.

So any other thoughts on this, guys?

I assume that you're going to meet this coming Tuesday to talk about it even further.

Or do you take a break for the March break?

We're doing the Sabbath course.

Oh, you're doing the Sabbath course.

Oh, hey, right.

So you'll restart up after the Sabbath.

How are you finding the Sabbath course?

Oh, it's great.

Yeah, it's really good.

I'm learning some new habits.

And probably getting rid of some old ones, at least myself personally.

Yes.

Had you practiced the Sabbath previous to this in any ways?

I would say in bits and pieces during the week for me.

Okay.

You know, church Sunday mornings is always that important.

But I think now Sunday's becoming more that day where rest is.

Yeah.

And really, you know, that's the whole thing of the course, how important it is for that

rest on Sunday.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's definitely a challenge.

And for anyone who's not aware of the Sabbath course, we actually have over 100 people who

have registered for this course.

Some people are doing it online.

You're doing it in person.

That's correct, right?

Yeah.

So you're working together.

And it's a video series, four sessions, where we are talking and learning about this rest,

like you said, Diane, designed by God so that we can reconnect with Him, find a light and

worship Him ultimately.

Certainly, not something our culture has structured us to do, is set us up to do.

So like you said, it's breaking old habits and then forming new ones.

But I just want to take a moment to thank you for joining me for this conversation.

Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

And it was a pleasure.

I'd love to have you back again sometime.

Maybe we'll go through a sermon that maybe isn't quite as heavy.

Or maybe even heavier.

Who knows?

It was actually a lot of fun chatting with you.

And I'd love to just hear your wisdom and insight again.

So thanks again for joining me for Trinity Talks.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us.