Deepening Faith Together | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Trinity Talks.

My name is Kyla and I'm the online engagement director here at Trinity.

This winter we are starting a new sermon series called Heroes of Faith.

We're going to be talking about some of the stories of people in the Bible and how

their faith shaped their lives.

But I also wanted to take a moment to just talk about who are the people in our church

and how has faith shaped their lives.

So I'm really happy to have Jordan and Jesse with me here today to talk a little bit more

about what faith has looked like in their lives.

So welcome to the podcast.

Hello, hello.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah.

So I want to start just by asking, how did you first learn about Jesus and then what

made you decide to follow Jesus for yourself?

And maybe we'll start with you, Jesse.

Yeah, sure.

So I'm lucky enough to be raised in a Christian family.

So I kind of had it built in me in terms of like the moment I could pretty much understand

what Jesus was.

That's kind of how I first knew about him.

And I think I'm sure Jordan kind of relates to this too, but the double edged sword of

being raised in a Christian household, you kind of take it for granted until I feel like

you actually take that first step to actually commit to Christ.

I know it's safe for me that moment really happened to me around like tail end of like

grade five.

Unfortunately, when I moved, sorry, when I went to grade four, I moved to a different

school.

And by the time I got into bowling and all that other stuff.

And so I didn't do really well in school then.

I was really distracted, obviously, because of that.

And so by the end of grade five, I realized I know, while I'm in my own self pity and

just not doing well, right.

I realized I neglected the big part of like what I could have done to actually address

this, which is my faith.

And so before I moved into middle school, I kind of took time set aside and started

praying to God, saying like, hey, I'm going to take my faith seriously now.

I want you to kind of like help me with me actually how to how do I approach bullying?

I want to actually dedicate my life to you.

And they basically helped me turn my life around.

Because for me, this is the closest I could get to living a rock bottom as a kid.

And he really answered my prayers because like both through his word and through that

like active prayer and kind of starting praying more seriously from that point on.

Not only did I know how to actually start approaching like how people like initially

bullied me, but I was able to change my whole mindset around where before I was quite negative

because of that experience, I was able to kind of look more towards the positive side

of things and especially like basically helped me reinvent myself entirely for middle school.

And especially I think around grade eight, God really made his presence felt known to

me.

It was kind of random out of nowhere.

I had a very visceral experience of the Holy Spirit filling me in.

I had no idea what that was.

Kind of freaked me out.

Talked to my parents like what's going on?

Like I really want to like praise and like write songs for God.

I was like, this has never happened before.

And my parents are like, Jessica, calm down.

That's the Holy Spirit.

And that's when I really knew that, yeah, this is real.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's great.

Yeah.

What about for you, Jordan?

Yeah.

Similar aspects to what Jesse said.

So I was raised in a Christian household as well.

So God was always there.

He's always up there.

And I was like, yeah, we love him.

But growing up, I think going to church was more of just a cultural exercise of just like,

oh, I'm going to church because my mom goes to church and my family and stuff.

So I think for when I really started to take my faith seriously is when actually Jesse

is actually was part of this.

Jesse and I and Chris Andrews were in a Bible study group years and years ago with Dale

Giesbrecht, Bill Crawford, shout out to them.

And we had like a young men's small group.

And I just think through that, this was in my, I think, really my early 20s.

It's when it became real to me and pursuing an actual relationship with God and not just

so that like, oh, I'm going to church to be a good person, but going because I want to

and I want to grow in my faith.

So that's where for me, it became really real.

And I just, yeah, ever since then, it's an ongoing process.

Of course, nobody's perfect and stuff.

But I'm trying to strive to just be a better, just deepening my faith and just looking to

God more for guidance and what I do in life and stuff.

So yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

I think it's, you both mentioned this idea that you grow up in a Christian household,

so faith is just sort of taken for granted, right?

But we do have to come to a moment in our lives where we decide like, okay, why am I

doing this?

And the same with any sort of family traditions or any sort of cultural exercise, as you said,

right?

We need to say, okay, like, what's the meaning behind this?

And do I want to keep doing this?

Is this something I want for myself or that I want to pass on to my family and that sort

of thing?

Yeah.

And it's neat to hear like, yeah, for you, Jesse, that it's really a particular moment,

right?

A particular like experience of things happening and for you, you know, relationships, right?

So that that spark can be anything.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

So if you think about the role of faith in your life, what difference has faith made

for you?

Yeah, Jordan.

For me, for me, faith has shaped so much in my life.

And I know, I know basically when before I had more of a personal relationship with God,

the way I would respond to certain situations or people would be the way I would do it.

And like, you know, it's not perfect.

And now now having like a faith centered guide, if you will, in my mind, I'm trying to be

more cognizant of like, okay, you know what, before I start to judge this person or before

I, you know, decide to do this action, maybe let's just do like a double, double step,

like double step to thought there in how God would want me to respond and stuff.

So it's really, it's really helped.

It's really helped shape how I respond to a lot of situations that previously I would

respond to maybe in a non-so Christian way and stuff.

And of course, you know, even today, it's not perfect.

I'm a flawed human being like everyone else here, but you know, at least there, the intention

is there and I'm straight every day, it's just a new, a new time to try and strengthen

that.

Yeah.

What about for you, Justin?

Now, very similar to him.

It's basically the lens of which I interact with everything in daily life.

And it's funny specifically for that part, for relationships or just like how you respond

to people.

I feel like the best part of faith is that there's a lot of this accounting at-buildy

aspect.

I feel that you don't have without it, at least assuming people are mostly on the same

page.

And so when me and my sister ever get into fights before it can escalate to like pass

a certain point, we usually have to at some point step behind and say like, well, God

actually be happy with what he said or would he actually be behind me being stubborn or

angry?

And obviously more often than not, the answer is no.

And so me and my sister have to kind of like eventually swallow our privacy.

We're both sorry, forgive one another and kind of move on, which I think is really helpful

in some ways because you can lie to yourself, but you really can't lie to God.

And so I feel like faith really helps a lot in terms of like, not as in making things

simple, but there's this kind of structure that I feel people who don't necessarily have

faith can often struggle with, especially when you're dealing with other people or like

or certain situations where you're like, oh, how do we resolve this?

And Jesus really gives us that blueprint to like at least have that both through the Bible

and also like the larger church community to know how to navigate life in some ways

that it can be more complicated than others.

Well said.

Well said.

Yeah.

And I was having a conversation with someone else earlier this week and we just like it

wasn't someone that I knew very well, but like immediately we started talking about

like our values and then we stopped to be like, this is a weird conversation for two

people to have, like if you're not grounded in faith, right?

Like you don't just walk up to somebody and be like, yeah, so like what do you value?

Or like, how do you make decisions in your life?

That's right.

But like faith gives us the lens to do that.

Faith gives us the motivation to want to do that.

Right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Totally agree with that.

Yeah.

What about in some of the sort of darker or more challenging moments of life?

So you mentioned Jesse that like that those challenging moments were what sort of drew

you to faith.

And now as we've sort of grown up a little bit, how has faith helped you in some of those

challenging moments of your life?

For me, years ago I was having a lot of like issues with like a certain family member and

that was, it was really tough.

And I actually would say that I, the closest I've ever been to God was through that.

And sometimes like when you say it, it kind of sucks to go like, oh, you have to go through

this like really hard stuff in order to like really find God, but when I was going through

it and I was like longing for him, like the deepest, that's when I felt like the closeness

with him.

And I wish like, even when everything is going great in our lives and everything, I wish

that I personally would still have that drive to go, I want that more and more.

Because I think sometimes when things are going really well, we just going to go like,

hey, thanks God, like that's great, I'll take it from here.

But we want to incorporate him in more aspects of our lives, not just like treating God like

a vending machine of like, hey, I'm in trouble, I need this, bleep, boop, boop.

But going like, you know what, God, I want you to be part of everything in my life, regardless

whether it's good or bad.

So, yeah, for me that was a time in my life for sure when really the deepness of my faith

was like just, yeah, it was very powerful for me.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, I really agree with what he mentioned regarding like, it sucks that, but this will

be the consistent theme for a lot of people where like we get closest to God when times

are tough.

Yeah.

When it's good, it's when we get complacent, right?

It's always hard to kind of have that focus on him.

But for me specifically, I think the biggest part for me, at least more recently versus

the one I shared earlier, was kind of the patience part when it comes to trusting in

him because when it came to my career, I didn't really know where I was going after university.

And for the longest time I was praying like, hey, where do you want me to go?

Like I worked at places like Costco, worked at places like a bubble tea shop, and then

there's other stuff that's not related.

So I was just like in EdTech and all that.

I was like, where am I going?

And it's funny because now in hindsight, like all of that stuff was feeding into one another.

God was specifically timing certain things so I end up where I am now.

Like I would not be where I am in employment services if I had my way.

A lot of stuff that happened in hindsight, like it only would have, like that one opportunity

only happened specifically in 2020 or like 2019.

So if I didn't end up getting the job then, it would have led to the opportunity I had

later on.

And then so many other things now.

So especially in hindsight now, and I feel like it helps a lot for maybe any younger

people who might be listening to this podcast right now, especially if you're kind of confused,

you're like, man, I really don't know where I'm going.

Really trusting God.

A lot of things that don't seem related, like all clicks in your head like way later.

And I think that's the biggest part for me is like sometimes those tough parts, they

can last a long time.

It doesn't necessarily mean like, oh, it's like a three month period or something.

It could be years.

And sometimes you really have to have that patience and God answers in ways that you

really don't expect.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And like that for me, patience is like the hard part.

I mean, like there's lots of hard parts of faith, but like, I'm just not, I'm not like,

I want to see the end kind of person.

Yeah.

Right.

Just give me the answer.

Yeah.

Just give me all the answers.

Spoil it.

Spoil it for me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah, those long periods of waiting in faith can be, as you've sort of both said,

like some of the moments where like your faith is sort of bolstered the most, but also at

the same time, like some of the places where your faith like can feel like the most shaky.

Yeah.

Right.

Because you're like, I'm, I'm just waiting it out.

Yeah.

And yeah, I know for me, like it's in those moments that I need some like really solid

habits and practices of like, like there was a moment.

I remember having a conversation with a friend during my undergraduate.

And I had a lot of friends who were like deconstructing their faith.

I mean, like, what do I really believe and why?

And a friend said to me like, okay, we're all doing this thing, but you don't seem to

be doing it that.

And I was like, no, I am doing that, but I'm showing up anyway.

Right.

Like I, I'm showing up at church.

I'm showing up at Bible study.

I'm showing up at these things because I need that habit in order to like help me not just

like feel lost.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would even, it's funny going off of habits.

It is so important to make faith a habit.

And like, like you said, showing up to church or just being involved in a church like community

or Christian friend group.

You know, I mean, people, people watching who are, you know, starting to work out for

new years, right?

New year's resolutions, new year, new me, all that.

Like, you know, I think the reason why people kind of fall off in February in the gym is

because they don't make fitness a habit.

And it becomes this monolith of like, oh my gosh, I got to kill myself on a treadmill.

But it's, if you just make it a habit and just take it in small baby steps, it becomes,

it becomes real.

And I think faith can absolutely apply in that way too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Definitely.

So we're doing this series on heroes of faith and Rob is going to take us through some of

the sort of biblical heroes of faith, but I'm wondering in your own lives, who have

been some of those heroes, some of those people who have really modeled faith well for you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's two, two parts for me.

One's like more based from home and the one from like church.

So home, it's my mom for sure.

I feel like even though she doesn't have really like a strong educational background or like

really rooted in theology, like she really embodies the selflessness that Christ teaches

us because she's always been the person who's like, really tries to help people.

Even if she doesn't really know them to like just meet you for the first time, she was

willing to give you like financial advice, you know, to help you out with something over

the weekend.

And one thing that really stuck out to me as a kid was that, so my dad had a grand uncle

on his side who had Alzheimer's and we ended up taking him for like a couple of years to

take care of him and home.

And my mom basically took the brunt of that.

And that's kind of crazy.

We have like three kids.

I was like an elementary at the time on top of that.

And so even though, again, she's not directly blood related or anything to him, took care

of him and everything.

And even after he ended up going back to Hong Kong, he ended up passing there.

Like she was the first one who went there to help and handle like Dilipis Estate, all

the other stuff for the funeral and everything else.

And for me, that always stuck with me just because like the amount of stuff she did.

Like she did more than my dad, my dad's the one related.

And then on the church side, Jordan already mentioned them, but both Bill Crawford and

Dale Giesbrecht, I feel like they've been fantastic.

Like I said, when they would lead that young men's small group, that was really the anchor

for me during the time for university, because it was a transitional period of field for

both me and Jordan.

We're both starting to navigate like school, but also even afterwards when we're starting

to do our first jobs, like they were really there to kind of give us their insights, their

experience as we're kind of figuring out like, how do I start adulting basically?

And especially for Dale in particular, like even when he ended up disbanding the young

men's small group, he told me, like, Jesse, like it doesn't have to end here.

Like you can lead a group.

Like you have the qualities to do that.

And at first I was like, oh man, yeah, I can't lead a group.

But that did stick with me for some time.

And when I eventually did take the dive to become a life group leader, like basically

a lot of I've done is modeled after what Dale showed.

And so I think both Bill and Dale did a fantastic job basically leading that group.

Yeah, absolutely.

I totally agree with him about Dale Giesbrecht, Bill Crawford.

For me, some of the heroes of faith, for me, I've actually been people like Bob Goff, Bob

Goff, who's a Christian author and a kind of a philanthropist as well.

And Rick Warren, who's a pastor down in the States.

Like I've listened to so many of either Rick Warren's sermons or Bob Goff's teachings and

such and just trying to help people model the way of Christ with the circumstances they

have and such.

Like Bob Goff, for example, teaching people like me for sure, how to deal with difficult

people in a world full of them.

And there's people that maybe you don't get along with very well or they're just kind

of just rough around the edges.

But trying to model loving those people and giving them guidance.

And Rick Warren's just like some of his sermons have really inspired me that way.

And I mean, you know what?

There's so many people here at Trinity, like Jesse said, that have been faith inspirations

to me.

I just can't, I'm just not going to sit here for an hour and just list them all up.

But truly there are so many people at this church, specifically that I've grown up with

in faith and coming to church that have really modeled Jesus' teachings and just have been

an inspiration to me as well.

Yeah.

And just sort of hearing you each talk about these different folks, one thing that stands

out to me is there's like different levels of people, right?

Like there's your mom, there's the people in our homes that we see every day and interact

with.

And then there's the people in our church community that we sort of have, they're not

in our lives every day, but some of them pretty much a lot, you know?

And then there's those other people that we don't know personally, but that do speak into

our lives, right?

That really shape our faith.

Yeah.

And I think it's helpful to have somebody at each level, right?

Because we need those moms, we need those partners, those people who can be there in

our everyday lives.

And then we need those people who come in for seasons, right?

And who speak to us and help shape us in different ways.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

For sure.

Yeah.

When you think about some of the heroes of faith in scripture, are there any particular

people or characters that sort of stand out to you, stories that you really appreciate

or that have shaped your faith in a particular way?

For me, I mean, Daniel.

Like I think Rob had even done a sermon about it, like Daniel in the lion's den, as we've

heard this parable before.

And I mean, just the faith that he had to get in the lion's den.

Like if I asked you, go into a lion's den right now and just pray to God quick that

the lions won't bite you, you know what I mean?

Would you do that?

Right?

And I think a lot of people would really, really have second thoughts about doing that.

So that's just one biblical example where it's like, wow, like his faith really was

strong because lions are not going to take it easy on you, you know, unless they're friendly

zoo lions or something.

I think for me, it's, I don't think a lot of people think of this one, but Jonah, because

I think he knows God exists and he had the balls to basically tell God, I don't want

to see any of it and he ran away.

Right.

And he showed so much mercy to both him and in a way.

And I think if God could choose a prophet like Jonah, there's hope for us.

Yeah, that's true.

And I think it's just a great example of like just how patient God can be.

And that even for someone who like deals with God on a daily basis, like they can act like

that.

So it's okay.

Like I think Doran mentioned many times we have for faults.

If you fall down, you can pick yourself up.

God will pick you up again.

Right.

Right.

Absolutely.

And I think he's often we talk about Jonah as like the anti-prophet.

Like, does the prophet thing, but like really reluctantly.

And then like even in the end, he's like, no, God, burn them all.

Yeah.

I have this nice spot to see them burn.

It's like, oh, man, it's hot.

Is this God?

Is this really necessary?

Can we just telecom?

Can we just telephone?

I did the job.

Do you really have to save?

Yeah, that's right.

We do a Zoom call with them.

Thanks.

Yeah.

But you're right that he does stand out as someone who at the very least has this faith

to be honest with God.

It has this faith to.

Yeah.

To just be like, I don't want to do this job, but God is calling me.

So I guess I'm going to do it.

And yeah, very relatable.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think for me, when I think about here's a faith and folks in scriptures, I mean,

there's a lot of examples, a lot of stories that stand out.

But I think Jeremiah has always been a guy that I relate with.

Yeah, just his story of calling.

And when God calls him, God says, you know, go and like speak to the people and you're

going to speak words of both comfort and destruction.

And Jeremiah is like, nah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No thanks.

No thanks.

I'm too young.

I'm too this.

People aren't going to listen to me.

But then he goes and does it.

And again, his story brings both, yeah, both comfort and destruction and both moments of

boldly speaking the truth and moments of weeping.

Moments of saying like, God, I don't know what I'm doing.

I don't know what you're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But yeah, faith through it all.

Through all of the ups and downs.

For sure.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Well, thank you both so much for taking some time to share your stories and your thoughts.

Thank you for having us.

Yeah, likewise.

Yeah.

And for those who are listening, I hope that you've been able to pull out some moments of

faith and truth from these stories as well.

Moments that maybe resonate with your experiences or moments that challenge you to think more

deeply about your faith.

And I would love to hear your stories of faith as well.

So feel free to reach out.

You can email us or send us a message and I would love to chat with you more about what

faith looks like in your life.

And so now I just hope that you go forth into this week full of faith and trust in God and

we'll see you soon.