Walking Away From God and Coming Home Again | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla

and I'm the online engagement director here. And throughout the rest of February, as we're

talking in our sermon series about stories of faith in scripture, in Trinity Talks, we're

going to be talking about stories of faith here in our church. And so I'm really happy

to be sitting down with Jen Agard to hear a little bit about her story. So welcome to

the podcast, Jen.

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

So for those who are watching or listening, they might have seen you around our church

before. You're often on the stage leading us at worship and you're one of our church

wardens here. So I'm excited to hear more about your story of faith.

I'm happy and excited to tell you.

Yeah.

I hope it's not boring, but I'm sure it'll be great. So maybe we can just start. How

did you first learn about Jesus?

So I grew up in a Christian home. I think I've known about Jesus since I could talk.

My dad taught us the Lord's Prayer. We would repeat it after him. And we went to church.

I don't even remember never going to church. We've always gone to church. Billy Graham

was a staple in our house on a Sunday. You couldn't even whisper in the room when he

was on. And then we went to, when we moved to Mississauga, my mom informed us that we

would be going to Christian Bible Camp in the summer. And we did that for years. St.

Brides was our home church. When I was 14, I joined a youth group. They didn't have a

junior youth group. So I had to join the senior youth group because my mom insisted that I

be in youth group. And actually fun fact about that, we still meet together sometimes, our

youth group, just to check in with each other. And also Harold Percy was my youth pastor

for about a year. And then when I was 15, I got confirmed. And when I was 17, I went

to a Billy Graham crusade, Go Figure. And that's where I gave my life to Christ. And

then I guess there were some things that happened and I sort of stepped away from the church

for a little bit. And then I was brought back to it and eventually got here to Trinity,

took Harold's following first steps. And that was the first time I realized that I could

have my own personal relationship with Christ. And then from there, got involved in church

ministry, mostly pastoral care. And yeah, so, and my journey continues.

Yeah. Okay. That's a really good sort of overview. So when you decided that you wanted to follow

Jesus for yourself, at that Billy Graham crusade and through Harold's ministry later, what

was it that sort of made you decide that you wanted to take those decisions?

I think it was the following first steps. And he had another course too right after

that and I cannot remember the name of it, but both of those sort of helped me realize

that I could have my own personal relationship and what that meant. Like when I was 17 and

I gave my life to Christ, I think I knew on the surface what that meant. But I think when

I took Harold's course, it really sort of sank in that this was a relationship that

I was going to have, that I could talk to Christ when I wanted to, that reading scripture,

getting deep into the word was helping me to recognize and get to know who he was more

and more. So yeah, I think that's, you know, that's, and then being involved in ministry

as well and having that opportunity to serve God through serving his people and just, you

know, that sense of being a part of something, a part of a family, you know, because I think

God chooses us to be in his family. He comes after us. He's like, he's relentless, but

when we're in it, we're in it. Yeah. Right. We're in it. So, yeah.

And that's one of the really cool things about faith and about a relationship with Christ,

right? It's like we get to choose it, but like you said, when we're in it, we're in

it. We are. And no matter what we do, we can walk away, we can do our own thing, but actually

that grip that God has on us does not change, right? It's pretty strong. Yeah. Pretty strong.

Yeah. That's cool. So when you think about, you know, you said there was a time where

you had walked away from faith and then sort of came back to it. So if you think about

the difference between those times, what has been the impact of faith in your life? Faith

has been a foundation for me. Faith, I think, and that's, I think where my parents started

it, where they recognize what, you know, following Christ was, and they want to make sure that

we had that foundation. But, you know, your parents still can't decide for you. You have

to make that decision. Right. So I think faith gives you foundation. It helps you to sort

of to create your own values around that. It gives you confidence. You have comfort.

You have some place to go. You have someone to turn to. You have like God, you have God

to turn to. It just helps you to recognize that you have a part in this world, like God

has decided what you're going to do and you're going to be a part of that. And being a part

of that helps you build on your faith because you go through trials and God brings you through

those trials. You're not on your own. I think that's the biggest part of it is that you're

not on your own. And I think that's when it becomes real for people when they go through

the most difficult times and they recognize that this just isn't a thing that you're doing.

This is a real, you know, spiritual connection that you have with God and that he does exist.

And when we're going through the difficult times that we don't like, that's when we recognize

too, you know, when we want to give him advice like I always want to. Yeah. Give God advice.

No, this is what I need, but here's some ideas that I have. Okay. Well, you can run around

the mountain until you get tired and let me know when you're ready. But yeah. So I think,

yeah, that's what faith is. It's just having that, that grounding and just knowing that

you always have someplace. You always have someone to go to. You have scripture that's

powerful. Those words are not just words, they're powerful words. You have devotion and there's

opportunities for you to spend time with Christ alone, which I think is really important.

I mean, this is important being at church and having fellowship, but you also have to

have that time alone with Christ. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So you mentioned, you know, this

idea that faith carries us through some of those difficult times in your life. I'm wondering

what, what has that looked like for you? So for me, it was, I think the loss of my mom.

My mom passed away when she was 40. She had been sick when I was 15 and she would have

been 30 something then. And I had prayed and prayed my little heart out that God heal her.

And she did, she got better. But then when I was about 18, she got really sick. And unfortunately,

I was the only one at home when she was not feeling well. And my dad was at work. So I

had to call the doctor, take her to the doctor's office, then take her to emerge. I've never

seen my mom in so much pain and seeing her cry was the hardest thing ever. And then from

there she got transferred down to Toronto general hospital. And I started nursing at

George Brown in August. She was still there. So I would go after school and visit her.

And in October, she passed away that year. So it was really tough because then I was

really angry because I, I, in my little, you know, useful mind, I thought God had healed

her. So if you healed her, then why, why did you take her? So it was really difficult because

my mom meant a lot to me. Like most people's mom mean a lot to them, but I was really,

really close to my mom. So I felt like, you know, I, I just felt lost without her. My

dad was there, but we weren't as close. So I was very close to my mom. So it was really

hard, you know, and I didn't understand that what was happening was that I was going through

grieving. I didn't understand that. I just knew that I just had a lot of anger. And then

I went through different stages. And so I did, I stepped away because I thought, well,

if you're the kind of God that's going to take my mom away from me, someone that I truly

love, then you can't possibly love me. And so I stepped away, kind of did my own thing,

struggled a lot, you know, same, that's that, that same running around the mountain until

I was ready, but God never left. He was always there. That poem footsteps in the stand and

the sand. That is exactly what happened. He carried me and carried me until I was ready

to come back. He didn't force me to come back. He didn't throw me out of his, you know, out

of his family. He just waited for me. You know, he's a God who will wait on you when

you're having difficulty, when you decide that you want to come back. And I think that's

the most amazing thing that for people that are just new to following Christ is that it's

never a situation where God is forcing you to do anything or threatening you that if

you don't do this, then you're going to suffer this. You know, he's a God that waits because

he loves us and he knows in the pain we're going through, he's going through it too.

Yes, he's feeling for it too. But when you're young and you're just angry and you can't

see anything but your own pain, you don't see that. You don't see it.

Yeah. And that, what you were saying there reminded me of, you know, things we've talked

about at different points at Trinity, but particularly during the Habakkuk series that

we did last fall, you know, that God can handle that anger, right? That it's okay to be angry

at God, to be upset, to be going through grief. That yeah, God doesn't abandon us in that,

right? He doesn't, no. And when you're ready to come back, he welcomes you like the prodigal

son with open arms, you know? And he's ready to just, let's just continue from where we

left off. There's no, you know, recoiling or talking about what happened and why did

you do what you do. It's just like, he just accepts you and you just keep going. And that's

the amazing thing about being a follower is that there are no conditions. It's you love

Christ, you love God, they love you and, or he loves you and then you continue on with

your life.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So you said there was this moment where you sort of walked away

from faith, but eventually you came back. So I'm wondering, what was it that drew you

back to church or back to Christ in some way?

This is kind of funny. Maybe not, but I started dating this guy. Okay. And I was in my early

twenties and he took me home to meet his family and his mom and I, his mom, I was just in

awe of her. She was very strong woman and she and I got very close to this day. We're

still close. She's in her nineties now. We're still close. She's like my, she's like, she

took over from my mom when my mom left. It's like God gave her to me and she, you know,

she, we got very close and she said to me one day, so she said, do you go to church?

I said, well, I used to. She goes, okay, I'll see you on Sunday. This is where my church

is and you don't say no to Selena. So she was the one that's, I, you know, reluctantly

went back, but then something happened. It's like, I remembered who I belonged to and just

this sense of feeling like your home, feeling a sense of comfort came back to me. So then

she was the reason that I went back. And I have to say that when my mom was in the hospital,

she did a lot of praying in those rooms because my siblings and I have been extremely successful

in our careers. We've, we've done very well in our lives. So I would say she prayed for

this. She prayed for Selena. She prayed to God to take care of her kids. And Selena was

one of the people that took care of her kid. You know, she became like my mom and she watched

over me. So yeah, she brought me back to my faith.

Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. Have there been any other sort of people like in our sermon

series, we're calling them heroes of faith, you know, the people who have really stood

out to us as examples of faith who've helped to carry you through your life?

Well, in the Bible, I would say Moses because Moses never asked to be a leader. He never

asked to be a leader. He was in, you know, he was in Pharaoh's palace. And when he left

to go to the desert, I'm sure he was thinking, you know what? Good. I got away from what

I did. I feel bad, but I'm just going to, you know, take care of my sheep and I'm good.

And then God comes along and starts talking to him. And he's like, what are you talking

about? Like, who do you think I am? You know, I've killed someone. What are you talking

about me going to get your people from Egypt? Like, I know that's not me. He's just so real

about it. He wasn't meant to be a leader, but God drew that out of him. God knew like

in Psalm 139, it talks about God knowing us, you know, knitting us in our mother's wombs,

knowing who we were. He knew who he was before he came and he knew what he was going to do

with them. And that's kind of, kind of parallels my life when God asked me to do something

and I'm like, I have that Moses, you know, I don't know, Lord, you sure it's me. A perfect

example of that is Stephen ministry. Judy Paulson used to be an associate minister. She's

a good friend of mine. And at the time she was bringing Stephen ministry back to Trinity.

So I had just finished with youth. Harold had encouraged me to be with youth. And so

she came to me and she said, you know, I had a, I'm bringing back Stephen ministry. And

I said, that's great. She goes, I had a dream and God told me that you should be one of

the leaders. Like, Judy, I don't even know what Stephen ministry is. What are you talking

about? Isn't it great when God tells other people what you're supposed to be doing?

What are you talking about? I don't even know what it is. She goes, don't worry about it.

We'll send you away for training. And she goes, why don't you, why don't you peripherally

think about it? And I'm like, okay. And the whole time that I was thinking, okay, Lord,

this is not me. And he's going to accept that. No, he didn't accept that. So I ended up being

involved in Stephen ministers, a Stephen leader for about 10 years doing that. But it's just

that thing where I never thought that I would never thought I was a leader. I never thought

I had leadership qualities, but God thought differently. Right? So Moses was always, it's

always been a parallel for me because God used him as his vessel when Moses allowed

him to and had faith in him and trusted him. And so when I grew to learn how to do that,

a little more of that, then God showed me more. And God always gives us the tools that

we need, but we just assume that we're doing it alone because fear comes in place, right?

Instead of faith. And then God shows you, you know, cause Moses asked for, he's, he

wanted him to speak. I'm not a speaker. So he gave him Aaron. Like he just did not let

him get away with it. He never once said, okay, step down and I'll put someone else

in place. He said, no, you can do it. I'll just get this person to help you. Right? So,

and then there are some scriptures like Psalm 46 10, be still and know that I am God. That

is one of my staples because when everything's in turmoil, when we're having a hard time,

we try to, we think we have to solve those issues on our own, but God is asking us to

just, you know, you just stay still, just recognize who I am and I got you. I'm going

to take care of this for you. You know, and there've been many times in my life when that's

happened, when there's been a difficult time. This isn't a difficult time, but I am a registered

yoga instructor and I decided to do, to take the course because people would say, oh, you

know, it's a sin to practice yoga. And I thought, okay, I need to find out for myself what this

is about. So I'm taking my yoga course. We had a professor of philosophy teaches about

the philosophy of yoga. So one, in one of our sessions, he talked about the scripture,

Psalm 46 10, be still and know that I am God, but he was talking in terms of, you know,

drawing in nature and recognize your recognizing yourself. Right. Right. So after class, I

waited till after class. I didn't mention it during class and he knew that I was a Christian

and so did the rest of the class because we introduced ourselves. So I went to him and

I said, not to, you know, criticize, but can I just give you, you know, what the meaning

of Psalm 46 10 is for me? So I told them just what I explained to you and he said, oh, I

never thought of it that way. And the following week he came back and he said to the class,

he bought the fact that I bought this up about Psalm 46 10. And then he talked about his

own experience, how he was having a rough week. And then he just took the time to be

still and recognize that, you know, God was in charge and everything just, you know, changed

for him. And I thought, wow, that's pretty amazing, you know, because again, those words

are powerful. You know, and I talked about someone 39, you know, we tend to forget who

we are and whose we are. And we listen to other voices that question our integrity and

question our abilities and question, you know, who we are. And just going back to someone

39, it speaks clearly to who we are and who we belong to. So that is one of the scriptures

that I truly, truly love. Yeah. And as far as heroes in my life, my mom will always be

my mentor, will always be my hero because she, when I was 11, she worked in the kitchen

at York French hospital and decided that wasn't enough. And my parents had bought a bungalow

in like in Mississauga and like we were the only black family in the neighborhood. Let's

put it that way. So my dad's concern was like, how are we going to keep this up if you do

this? And my mom was relentless. She said, don't worry about it. We'll get it done. Cause

her faith was that strong. And she would talk to us as kids all the time and she would tell

us, you know, you can do anything that you want. You know, I believe in you, I love you.

And you know, they're going to be barriers. You're going to have a hard time. And because

of being a person of color, she said, you know, you're going to have to work twice as

hard, but you can do it. You'll get through it. So she showed us cause she went to school

and she graduated with honors and she became a lab technician and worked for this geology

company and our lives changed. But to be able to see that as a child is pretty amazing.

And I have her diploma. So when I think that I can't do something and I somehow come across

them as I'm, you know, panning the room and thought, I see them, it's like, okay, I don't

have an excuse. You know, I have to be able to do this. She was just a very strong person.

She was strong in her faith. That's why I say when she was in the hospital, I'm sure

she prayed for us. It had to be her because our lives could have been very different.

When she passed away, we had a hard time grieving cause we didn't know how to, my dad didn't

know how to connect with us that way. So yeah, I think that she had us in mind. She was praying

for us all the time. She does. And then of course, Selena and then my nurse manager at

the hospital, when I worked on her unit, I didn't want to work on her unit at first.

I wanted to be, I wanted to be with the babies and she was more geriatric and I love elderly

people but you know, being a new graduate, I wanted to go where the babies were. So I

ended up working for her and we're still friends and she reminds me all the time, remember

when you didn't want to work for me? It's a joke between us, but she pushed me because

we did my performance review and she goes, okay, so this will be the last year that I

see you here for this performance review. I go, what do you mean? She goes, you need

to go. You're young and you need to experience other things. And it just so happens that

they made a major change in the staffing. And so some of us were going to have to leave,

but I had seniority so I was quite happy to stay where I was. And she goes, you will be

one of them. So I went from a geriatric unit to an active medical surgical unit, which

is huge. And I was like terrified, but she said, you're going. I said, what if I don't

want to go? She goes, you don't have a choice. So it was almost like God put these women

in my life to take over where my mom left off. There was an incident at school at George

Brown where I had just finished my clinical, it was my last clinical and my teacher, I

had a B plus and I was so happy because nursing was not easy. It really wasn't. So I was so

happy with my B plus. And then she took me by my hand and you have to understand the

instructors we had lived in the hospitals. Previously when they were going through their

programs, they lived in residence. So they were all older white women, our instructors.

So I'm practicing that for a reason. So she took my hand. She said, Jen, you know what?

She says, you might have to look for another profession. I'm like, did she give me a B

plus or a D plus? Cause I'm confused right now. She said, no, it's just, I'm concerned

that you know, the way that this profession is that you may not get in. And what she was

saying to me was because of the color of my skin. So that was very upsetting for me. So

I used to go visit my mom after school and she would, she lived vicariously through me

cause later on I found out that she wanted to be a nurse and she never, you know, pursued

it. So she would be excited to hear what I did for the day. So this particular day I

went to visit her and she said, how was school? I said, it was okay. And so she said it was

okay. And I said, yeah, it was just, you know, a day at school. She goes, well, what did

you do? And I said, you know, not much. So she goes, what happened? Cause you know, your

mother knows you more than anything. I said nothing. She goes, no, I want to know what

happened. So I told her, she got mad at me and she goes, and what are you going to do?

What do you mean? What are you going to do? I said, if you're asking me if I'm going to

quit nursing, no, mom, I'm not going to quit nursing. I'm going to continue. She goes,

that's what I need to hear. She goes, cause I told you it wasn't going to be easy. And

it's like, when you think about being a Christian, God tells us when you become a Christian,

it's not going to be easy. You're going to have barriers. You're going to have people

tell you, you know, that you're wrong and that what you believe in is ridiculous. And

you're going to, you know, people are going to make you feel fearful, but I have you.

I believe in you. You're mine. So it's almost like she paralleled that, you know, and I,

well, I always remember everything that she says to me. There's times when I'm just sitting,

you know, or I have to make a decision and I'm praying and I hear her as well, you know,

because she believed so much. And my dad did too. My dad was phenomenal in his belief.

I mean, if you go anywhere with my dad and you're sharing a hotel room, like we went

to visit my uncle to pay our respects to him. And so we shared a hotel room, my brother

and my dad and I, and my dad, whenever he prays, he gets down on his knees. He still

does that. And he taught us how to do that when we were little. So we had a really good

Christian base growing up. But again, you can have a Christian base, but at the end

of the day, you still have to make your own decisions about it. Right. But they gave us

a good base, a good foundation. And I think it's continued on. My brother and I are huge

followers still, but my sisters are kind of on the fence, but we push because we're supposed

to. But yeah. So my faith is a continuing journey. I'm still trying to learn more and

more. I'm doing a part-time master's of divinity at Wycliffe. Really, really part-time, more

casual than part-time. Because sometimes I just find it overwhelming because there's

so much. Sure. There's a lot to learn. Yeah, there is, but it's so valuable. And of course

I'm in a life group, a great life group. So it continues. And these are kind of the components

that you need. I think devotion is important. Getting into the Word is important. Prayer

is important. I have been practicing contemplative prayer, centering prayer. There was a rector

that came here years ago and talked about contemplative practice. And I've always been

interested in it. So I found someone who actually used to go to this church, Sue Willard. She

used to go to this church years ago and she facilitates it. So I went to her and she taught

me and I've been practicing it ever since. And it's just Christian meditation is an opportunity

to just spend quiet time with God. And it's pretty phenomenal. It's pretty effective.

So there are so many different things that you can do to just grow that relationship

with Christ. Because I think when you do that, that's what builds your faith. Yeah, for sure.

And allowing God to use you as a vessel, that's the most important thing. Sometimes God calls

us to speak and we say, you want me to say what to who? I do. It happens to me all the

time. And I'm like, I don't think you want me to do it. I think there's Moses against.

I'm not your person. Yeah, there's Moses against. But then it's like having faith and trust

in Him and knowing that He's asking you to do that and to obey. That's the most important

thing. Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much for sharing a little bit of your story

with us. It's so neat to sort of see how God weaves all of the pieces together. And through

all of the ups and the downs and the uncertainty, yeah, God is faithful. Yes, He is. And we

just continue to fumble along in the ways that we can, right? Yes, we do. But He picks

us up every time. He's always there. Just like the one year old that's learning how

to walk and they fall down, or a three year old that falls, and mom's right there. And

they know that. So they have enough courage and faith to step out and try it again. So

yeah. That's great. Well, thank you for tuning in for this week's episode of Trinity Talks.

I hope that you have also found some encouragement and maybe some moments of identifying a little

bit with Jen's story. And tune in next week to continue hearing more stories of faith

from our folks here at Trinity. We'll see you then.