Scrolling, Busyness and Burnout | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana.

My name is Bill. And I'm Johanna. And this week,

we are continuing to talk about sin. Yes. But

we're talking about a very specific sin this

morning, and that is the sin of sloth, which

is not something that we talk about very much

at all. And maybe if you're listening you're

like sloth. What even is that? Is that a sin?

Yeah, so hopefully we can help unpack some of

that for you But first I want to start since

we don't talk about this word very often when

I say the word sloth What is the first thing

that comes to mind Johanna? Animal animal, okay.

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, okay bill What's the first

thing that comes to mind? Well, in our church

context, I know the old joke is, I know the answer

is supposed to be Jesus. Right. But I'm just

thinking of when I hear the word sloth, I think

of lack of caring and indifference. OK. OK. And

what about for you? Yeah, I would say inertia.

OK. Right. OK. So funny story. When I think of

sloth, what comes to mind for me is a slug. Because

I know okay, so when I was preparing for this

podcast I wrote on the outline sloth not the

bug Because for whatever reason I assumed that

the slug was called a sloth, but it's not sloth

is the animal anyway So I got all confused all

that to say we're not talking about slugs. We're

not talking about creatures in the forest We're

talking about sloth. Yes So what? What is that?

When we talk about sloth in a Christian context,

in the context of sin, how would you sort of

describe it? Me? Well, I said inertia. That sense

of just not wanting to do what you need to do.

That's what I would say. You're just stuck. Yeah.

Anything you would add to that, Bill? Well, I

think sloth is apathy, it's indifference. I think

one definition was a culpable lack of in effort,

disregard of your obligations to family, to work,

to church, to your own life, your own spiritual

life. Culpable is the big word there. Yeah. You

know what you're supposed to be doing, but you're

definitely not doing it. And you're responsible

for the fact that you're not doing it. Right.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What about for you? Yeah. How

would, how would you sort of think about that

word? I guess like for me, I would think of like

waiting too long. Like, you know what you're

called to do. You know what you're supposed to

do, but you're thinking. XYZ like I'm just gonna

wait until this happens or until that or until

I feel ready Just that like laying and wait and

not doing anything, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean

it's I feel like it's this complex kind of a

thing, but it is, yeah, I think we've helped

sort of drill it down and it's very basic. It's

not doing the things that you know you're supposed

to be doing and you're not doing them. Yeah,

you are culpable in that you are responsible

for that somehow, which then leads into this

helpful distinction of like what is not sloth,

right? Because we sometimes think of it as, you

know, it's just laziness. It's just choosing

not to do the right thing or it's it's tiredness,

right? But I think those things are not quite

sloth. Is that fair to say? Right. I would say

laziness can be a component of sloth, but sloth

is so much more. Also, we talked about taking

a break. I think some people, and Rob joked about

this in a sermon, saying that going on vacation

is an example of sloth. I would say, no, that's

not either. there's very good reasons for us

to take vacations, to even take a sabbatical,

right? The Bible talks about taking a sabbatical,

taking time away from your regular work to recharge

emotionally, physically, spiritual. I mean, we

are told to do that, so obviously that's not

wrong. Yeah, and Jesus did that. Like, He has,

like, lit out away from all the crowds and all

the work so often, right, to get that rest. And

so you do know that those breaks are very much

part of who we are as humans. We need them. We

are creatures. And so to that extent, taking

those breaks is so important to recognizing your

limits. So it's not rest. It's not taking a break.

Rest is incorporated into who we are as human

beings. There's definitely a difference between

needing rest and a break and not wanting to do

anything all of the time. Yeah, and I think even

one of the distinctions I think we need to make

too is, even not wanting to do something all

the time, it really depends on your mental and

emotional and physical state. Because I would

not want to say, like Rob even said in his sermon,

sloth is not the same as depression, for example.

There's something about those who are living

with mental illness or those who are living with

chronic physical illness. That is not sloth.

That is a separate category of things that maybe

sometimes has the same consequences in the world.

Maybe it means you're not doing things, just

like sloth means you're not doing things. But

I would not put mental and physical illness in

the realm of sin. Yeah, I think you're right.

Depression might be a component of sloth and

being in a state of slothiness might cause you

to become depressed as a symptom, but I think

they're completely separate. I agree. Yeah. And

one of the things that you also mentioned to

me earlier this week, Johanna, was that, you

know, it's not the same as burnout, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So like, how would you sort of distinguish

those things? Well, To get burnt out, you have

to not be slothful in the first place. You have

to be doing a whole bunch of work and not prioritizing

rest and that work -life balance to burn out

because you've overworked yourself. In my head,

whenever I feel burnt out, I'm like, oh my gosh,

I'm being so lazy, I should be doing this and

this and that. But that mindset is why I'm burnt

out in the first place. And so it's not helping

me be... productive anyway. So yeah, it is different.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I just wanted to also say

that one of the interesting things that can happen

in burnout is a reflection that as much as we

have been exceedingly busy, if that busyness

came out of a lot of things we should not necessarily

have put our energies to. Sure. You know, then

there's an underlying slot to the busyness more

than the burnout. There's an underlying sense

of lack of reflection, lack of prioritization,

lack of putting the effort where it needed to

and saying no to a lot of other busy things that,

you know, as you said, can actually be quite

detrimental to us. So it's an interesting thing.

It's not the burnout that's a slot. Actually,

the slot might have happened. in the areas of

our busyness, right? And that's sort of what

can be quite interesting to think of, when you

think of Sloth as that, I don't know, lack of

balance in there, that inability to reflect on

what needed our attention and what didn't, or

what needed our energy and effort and what didn't.

Yeah. Yeah, so what you're bringing in then is

that, like, Sloth isn't just doing nothing. Sometimes

we are doing things. and being slothful in the

doing of things, which seems kind of contradictory.

What helps us then distinguish is this sloth

or is it not? In the sermon, Rob talked about

a couple of different examples of that. He talked

about entertainment that doesn't refresh. I thought

that was an interesting distinction. I mean,

we like to be entertained and it is a good way

to get away and to have some enjoyment, right?

But I mean, if it's just constant strolling on

our social media feeds or if it's binge watching

show after show, then we lose the benefit of

that action. Right. Because it's too much. Yep.

And the, you know, if we, if we strolled, sorry,

scrolled, if we scrolled a little bit as part

of our day, you know, then that would be a fun

and entertaining distraction. And then we go

back to, you know, what we're supposed to do

or same thing with watching TV or going to a

movie. It's not bad. But if that becomes... a

controlling factor of our life. If that's how

we spend so much of our time, then instead of

refreshing it, it itself becomes a drain. So

not only are you trying to escape from whatever

it is that's draining you, but you become involved

and active in something that drains you further.

And then that's where the whole kind of sense

of... sloth of lack of energy, lack of effort,

lack of will, and it really kind of comes into

play, right? For me, the scrolling is the worst

thing, I think, because... Okay, there's so many

ways to get entertained, right? But the scrolling

is just like very instant gratification and you

just keep doing it and you keep seeing cool stuff

and like you can't stop and then it's like three

hours later and your Bible is still open, but

you haven't read a single word. It's like, oh,

okay. So you have to like lock in again. But

I noticed that for me, like As opposed to scrolling

if I just even watch a movie just like short

form over like I mean long form over short form

content kind of is different like you just feel

different after sitting down and like expressly

watching a movie versus just when you're scrolling,

you're kind of thinking of a billion things at

once versus just the plot of one film. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think like you said, you know, you're

scrolling and you see all these cool things and

there's instant gratification. That definitely

happens sometimes. But my world is more I'm scrolling

and like doom scrolling. Yes. I'm scrolling and

like, wow, another crisis in this place. Oh,

that peace treaty didn't hold up. We're like,

oh, yeah. Right. And so like I think for me.

It's like, yes, the scrolling itself is an act

of sloth, but it actually feeds a deeper sense

of sloth because if sloth is thinking, OK, nothing

matters and this like temptation to give in to

despair, then like doom scrolling feeds that

hard. Yes. But it's also interesting because.

it feeds it without you recognizing that it's

doing that, right? You feel like you are engaged.

And that's the worst part about it. Because I

mean, that moment at the beginning when, sorry,

no, I am referring to the sermon, but you know,

when we talk about CS Lewis's quote, but never

purposeful opinions that lead to no action. Talk

about change, but never make it. Yeah. I mean,

scrolling ends up feeding that sense that we

are engaged in what is happening. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Why are we very good citizens by knowing

what is happening in the world, right? By spending

seven hours reading and reading and reading and

scrolling without actually doing the important

acts, simple, humble acts of love that actually

do matter spiritually and in our relationships

with our families, with our friends. And so that's

where the danger, I think, of sloth comes. And

I think it's one of the most potent sins in our

world today, precisely because we are so bombarded

with ways to... fool ourselves that we are engaged.

I think that one of the things that I wanted

to bring up and I think that kind of goes into

that is the insidious nature of sloth. And it's

not something you don't wake up one morning and

you don't care and you're indifferent and you're

apathetic. It happens in very small increments.

It's like what your teacher was saying the very

first week you talked about. You don't start

with the big sins, you start with the little

sins. You tell a lie and then you cheat on a

test. And then once that becomes normalized,

that small sin becomes normalized in your life,

you're ready to take the next step. But I think

slothiness approaches us in the same way. It's

almost like the animal. It doesn't move more

than 32 meters in a day. It just moves very slowly.

I guess the insidiousness of sloth is that it

comes at you in that way, where you don't realize

it's happening. For me, personally, because I

really identify, of the seven deadly sins, this

one might be my favorite. I just have such a

personal experience of this in my life, of going

through what was likely years of slothfulness.

of apathy and indifference and not caring. And,

and, and for me it was, again, it wasn't just

an overnight thing. It was something that, that

came on me over time and just, and in the late,

like you were saying, in the busy -ness of our

work, right? I just hearing this small voice

in my head saying, Bill, you're not making a

difference. Right. And, and, or, you know, why,

why do you care? And, and it was, and it was

that kind of, I mean, it's like demonic influence

over my work and over my involvement with my

family and friends that just caused me over time

to just... My core to me is wanting to make a

difference. And so to attack on, you're not making

a difference. Why are you... putting in all that

effort. Right. And it's nothing's changing. You

know, people aren't changing. And the and so

all of a sudden you just start doing less and

less and you and you start thinking, well, yeah,

I'm going to watch that show, you know, all nine

seasons of the instead of doing, you know, you

know, something else because it doesn't really

matter anyway. Like, you know, you know, so I

stopped showing up and I stopped caring. And

it just and it was. And it just fed on itself

at that point. That's really corrosive at the

time. It spiraled downward. And then you don't

care. And then you aren't making a difference.

You're not showing up. You're not being present.

You're not engaging in the world. You're so jealous.

of that time for you, which may have been at

the beginning something that could have been,

maybe was good to take time away, like a Sabbath,

like a vacation. But when that's all that it

becomes, where you're saying every day, like

for a while, I was still working full time, I

was doing the job, but I mean, I didn't do anything

more. I put in the time and then I couldn't wait

to go home and just do whatever I wanted to do.

It was just about me. And so I disengaged from

community. I disengaged from family. I disengaged

from friends. I stopped going to church. There

was a time five, 10 years ago where I was barely

at church for a number of years. And it only

took an intervention of friends, close dear friends.

And many of them are in my Thursday morning life

group that said, Bill, enough is enough. You

know, that's amazing. We got to deal with this.

And I'm like, no. But, you know, they helped

me to confront it and to get past it. Yeah, yeah,

for sure. So when we think about our work -life

balance, as you were sort of just talking about,

you know, we can go to work and do the things

and we have a kind of hustle culture, right?

A sense of like really valuing productivity and

doing things out in the world. So how does sloth

fit into that? If we are so busy doing all of

these things, right? What does sloth look like

in hustle culture? I think sloth prevents us.

Hustle culture tells us that if we take time

to be still, to reflect, to not do active things,

then that is laziness. That you're not being

all you can be, you're not doing all you can

do. Sure. And that I think is completely antithetical

to God's sort of be still and know that I am

God. Like that it makes stillness and reflection

an enemy of achievement and fulfillment. Right.

So one of the things I think that Hasaltology

attempts us to do then is to do all the things

we do, you know, to keep ourselves in the know.

We have our work and now we're going to also

figure out, like spend some time, you know. getting

entertained, being up with the local culture,

being able to speak about X, Y, Z. It's going

to learn a new language on the side. It never

lets us off, right? But part of what Slot does

then is makes us stop. And I think here's where

the spiritual mention of Slot comes in, right?

It makes us stop caring about how important it

is to be slower. To be present in simple, small,

everyday jobs in our families with our friends.

We just sort of let those go. We stop caring

in areas, not caring completely, but caring in

certain important, crucial areas of our lives

where God tends to show up. Those are the ones

we tend to give up. So household culture can

be a really... It's a real temptation. Ask yourself

what you're giving up when it comes to your spiritual

walk with God and your engagement with your family

and community while you are so busy improving

yourself in 50 different ways. And you'll probably

begin to recognize the spaces where sloth is

a temptation. I feel like hostile culture is

really toxic because it really glorifies a really

poor imbalance. You'll be working around the

clock on something. It'll be like, wow, they're

such a go -getter. They're after their goals

and everything. Or you'll pull all -nighters

and it'll be seen as like, wow, so dedicated,

so motivated. But that's really bad for you.

And your brain needs to rest. I don't know. I

just know some people will be like, oh my gosh,

I only got three hours of sleep. And they'll

go comparing themselves to other people who had

maybe one hour of sleep. It's like, you can't

consistently function this way. So in a way,

you're kind of promoting laziness. Well, you're

performing like you're performing a lot. Yeah,

but up until like what point so there's gonna

be a crash Yeah, you crash and then you're gonna

be like lazy quote -unquote when really you just

need rest and then you conflate like laziness

for sloth and then you feel guilty because you're

sitting on top of feeling awful, so So what I'm

what I'm hearing from both of you is is that?

hyperculture is bad the sloth is bad and the

best way is to find the balance in the middle.

I would say the sloth is somewhere underlying

that hyperculture very often. I think that's

sort of part of what happens. I mean, not always,

right? I do want to distinguish between a genuine

sense that you want to be engaged and excellent

at what you work, you find value in it. That's

different from the sort of always do something,

be always on. um culture which is yeah somewhat

different yeah it's it's the motivation it's

a motivation yeah it's always that it always

goes back to like the things we can't quite see

yes yeah yeah i think what what i'm hearing is

is that the um uh that there's a good part to

uh the bad thing The desire to be productive

and to make a difference and to advance your

work, whatever sector you're in, that's a positive

thing. But if you go into overdrive and you're

workaholic and you're never home and you're proud

that you've only slept one hour a night this

past week so you got more work done, that's the

negative part of it. But there is a core to that

that, again, I think, is part of our calling.

what God wants us to do is to provide for our

family and to engage in the world and to make

a difference. And that's the positive part of

work. And then there's nothing wrong with that.

Actually, that's commanded. If you're not doing

that, there's a problem with sloth. And then

the sloth part, again, we talked about taking

a vacation, taking a break, taking a sabbatical,

having a lazy day. aren't necessarily, you know,

bad things, but if that becomes your focus. No,

those are healthy when they come after a good

sense of work. Yes. Right. Yeah. I mean, that

is the balance you want. That's what I'm saying.

Exactly. Yeah. So we've talked about sort of

what sloth is, all of these problems with it.

I want us to end by just talking about, you know,

how do we overcome sloth? What does that look

like in our lives? And the first thing that comes

to mind for me, so you were talking about, you

know, when you were in a season of slots, just

wanting to check out and like not do any of the

things. And I think about, for me, like showing

up to church, showing up to prayer, to read my

Bible, whatever it is, showing up for my family,

I think even if it just feels like I'm going

through the motions, the act of showing up is

super important. Yes. So that's where I would

start. What would you folks say? I think that

is a good start. And I think Rob covered that

in the sermon as well, just saying, keep praying,

keep reading your Bible, keep coming to church,

keep being engaged in your community, keep doing

that stuff, be diligent, even if you don't feel

it, right? What's the phrase? Make it till you

make it. There we go. That was what I was hearing.

When you're going through those difficult times,

of course, that's a choice. I think in my experience,

I didn't have the strength. or the will to make

that choice to even to start, even to show up

again at places. And so I needed people who love

me and care for me and who were able to help

get me to the point where I could make that choice

to start going to life group again, my men's

life group again, to start going to church again,

that kind of stuff. What else? What are some

other things, some practices we can put into

place? Yeah, okay. Um, I think just thinking

of what motivates you, um, like just have some

goals because you might not even think about

them, but they're really important to have. Like,

I don't know if you know the acronym, like SMART,

like SMART goals. I forgot what it stands for,

but it's one of them is like specific and like

timely and yeah, I'm a lot of order but And also

just like Something for me is like I think of

the person I want to be and that person would

just be being that person So I just be that well,

it's not like that. Yeah, but I try to just Do

the things that our future self would have done.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I would say faithfulness.

There's a calling for you to be who God has asked

you to be each day. Or in the place where you

are. And when I say faithfulness, I don't mean

not cheating on something. I just mean doing

those acts and work those tasks each day and

recognizing the value of them. And I think...

If you go through the motions without, because

you recognize the value of something, then it

can take you through the times when emotionally

you're not there. But if you're only going through

the motions without recognizing the value of

it, without sort of trusting God, then it can

get very much more like a performance culture.

So recognize where God has value in those simple

things that He's asking you to do. in your day

-to -day work. And that's hard enough, right?

And so, yeah, I would say that faithfulness and

renewing of that mind, right? That is required

to recognize the value and see when God says

this is valuable, you say it's valuable and do

it. And so that's where I would, that's enough

for me, I think, as a challenge for going out

of this reflection onslaught. Yeah. I would say

that the way to save your life is to give your

life. I think the personal cost and the tragedy

of sloth as one of the seven deadly sins is the

wasted potential of not becoming the person or

being the person that God has meant you to be.

And that we're meant to be in community, right?

And to be in relationship. and be a positive

and productive member of society. But when we

turn away from all that, we're keeping us for

ourselves. You know, that was kind of how it

was for me. And we're starving ourselves of our

lives, our life's potential. And the verse that

comes to mind is, let me look it up here. It's

Matthew 10, 39, where it says, whoever finds

their life will lose it. Right. So for me, you

know, if we're trying to hang on to our life,

disengaging and just doing our own thing. If

we're scrolling or trolling or doom scrolling,

or if we're binge watching, you know, whatever

it is for us, then, you know, we're trying to

keep our life for ourselves. We're ultimately,

we're going to lose it. Right? So whoever finds

their life will lose it. And whoever loses their

life for my sake will find it. And so what I

think Jesus is saying there is that is that if

we give our lives to him and to his service,

then we will find that we get our life back.

And that was my experience. So after that intervention,

and I started engaging back in my community,

with my family, in the world, just volunteering

again, I... I didn't have the same amount of

time to watch TV or to do my own thing, whichever

that was, but I didn't miss it. My life was so

much more fulfilling. I got that sense of making

a difference, of caring, of people and other

people were... you know, happy that I was around,

right? So it's not just how I felt, but it was,

you know, the fact that I showed up made other

people, made a difference in the lives of other

people. And so that really is that, you know,

Jesus, you know, bang on, well done, Jesus. You

know, the verse is great. It's just because it...

It attacks that sense of sloth, that sense of

a jealousy of our own time and wanting to be,

just do what we want and say, no, that's not

how you were meant to be. That's not how you

were created to be. You're created, you give

your life to me in service to me and you will

find you will have a life of fulfillment and

completeness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks Will.

Yeah, so that's been a lot to think about, a

lot to digest, for sure, but I think a really

hopeful note that we end on, you know, that there

is a way forward. There is faith, there is hope,

and yeah, that God can lead us in that path if

we just trust and listen for that, for sure.

Yeah, so thank you for tuning in to this week's

episode of Trinity Talks, and we'll see you again

next week.