Does Jesus' Resurrection Really Matter? | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is

Bill. I'm Justin. And we are here on Easter Sunday

to talk about the reason for Easter Sunday, which

is resurrection. Resurrection. Yeah, it's a pretty

cool thing. It's a fun word. Yep. Yeah. So yeah,

I really just wanted us to sort of sit down and

talk about, you know, why is Easter Sunday such

a big deal? And why? does this resurrection continue

to sort of matter for us? Yeah, so this whole

weekend, Rob sort of took us through it in the

sermon. You know, there's Good Friday, when we

remember that Christ was crucified. There's Saturday,

which is a sort of day of waiting and confusion

and nobody really knows what to think. And then

there's today, where we celebrate Christ's resurrection.

So I want us to first reflect on like how to

each of those things relate to one another. Why

do we need a crucifixion and a resurrection?

And yeah, how do they matter? When I was talking

with someone else about this this morning, they

very matter -of -factly said, well, Jesus can't

just stay dead. And I was like, you know what?

Fair. That's true. Peter said it was impossible

for death to hold him. Okay. Well, there you

go. So it's literally impossible for Jesus to

stay dead. But other than that, how does one

sort of relate to the other? Bill? Well, that

sounds like an excellent theological question,

Justin. So you want to know why we need both

the crucifixion and the resurrection? Yeah. Well,

I mean, the thing about Jesus is he's bigger

than just kind of a leader with some good advice.

Yep. He is according to the scriptures sort of

the fulcrum or the centerpiece of all of reality

all of creation all of our lives who we are So

he is taking creation through a journey Okay

Through Friday to Sunday in the crucifixion.

We all know that because well, maybe we don't

know but Scripture teaches that we've got a problem

between ourselves and God and one another and

that is we have decided that we could be better

without God than with God and that set off a

whole chain of events in scripture that alienates

us from God and sets us in relations of hostility

with one another and that's called sin something

we talked about the last few weeks here at Trinity

and what God does right he could just smack us

and say, as God was tempted to do several times

in the Old Testament, the nation of Israel, this

is it, I'm done with you people. I've given you

the gift of life and grace and you've rejected

it and thought you could do it on your own. But

no, God doesn't do that. He says, I'm going to

actually stand in solidarity with the very people

that rebelled against me. I'm going to stand

in solidarity so much that I'm going to become

one of them. I'm going to become a human being.

And all of the consequences of living apart from

God, I mean, God is life itself. So to turn our

backs on God is to choose death over life. And

God says, you know what, I'm going to become

a human being and I'm going to traverse those

consequences for human beings. I'm going to go

through death. And as I go through death, I'm

going to transform it from being a threat to

being Oh, something that is powerless, that's

merely a gateway into life. So the crucifixion

is necessary because sort of the reality of sin,

the fact that we turned our backs on God, needs

to be dealt with. And the resurrection is the

word that says, you know what, those consequences

are not the end of the story. The point of all

of this was that I could have a relationship

with you, God says. And it's not just that God

snaps his fingers. and makes all of that happen.

He goes through that for us. He takes on our

cause, takes on our case, takes on our flesh.

And therefore, when God resurrects the Lord Jesus

on Sunday, it's like us being resurrected. That's

what Paul says several times in the letters.

Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrection.

We were all sliding down this pit into death.

God takes up our cause in Christ. And therefore

when the tomb is empty and he rises to new life,

he's taking us with him the same way that he

took on our case in front of him. Yeah, he's

definitely taking us through a process. And one

of the devotions from this past week was reflecting

on Jesus said on the cross, it is finished. and

not, I am finished. Telling us that he's doing

something for us that we can't do for ourselves.

So he's taking us through that process. This

process is finished. put Jesus in place of us

to take us through that process. And at that

point in the cross, it wasn't him that was finished.

Right. He will finish that process on our behalf.

Right. Yeah. And actually the Greek word for

it is finished could also be translated like

it has now been perfected. Mm. Okay. That's cool.

Like the goal of our existence is God wants to

bring us to perfection. Okay. Not perfection,

like really, you know, flawless, but he wants

to bring us to full maturity. Right. Right. And

when Jesus completes that act, he says, now I

can bring humanity to its intended destination,

which is life and fellowship with God and with

one another. I mean, it's a powerful sort of

declaration. Something only Jesus could say.

Yeah. It's powerful, it's exciting, and it's

hopeful. Yes. Yes. But I don't think it necessarily,

at least for the disciples and those who were

first gathered there, doesn't feel necessarily

hopeful in the moment. Not in the moment. In

the moment. But us looking back, we can definitely

sort of see the hope that. And the hope starts

there. It starts there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean.

You realize it on Sunday. Yeah. As you were talking,

I was just like reflecting on the whole sort

of story of Christ, right? And like all of it

matters. Right? Like it, the incarnation from

the moment that Christ takes on flesh, like starts

a new thing. He's doing it for us. Yeah. He's

going through life for us and sort of, um, like

perfecting it, making it holy in every stage.

Yeah. Which is actually, sorry, I'm going to

be all theological now, but today, and this doesn't

always happen. The Greek Orthodox Easter, the

Orthodox Easter is the same day as the Roman

Catholic and the Western Easter. So we're all

celebrating together this particular year. But

one of the great things that Orthodox theology

says is that Jesus kind of goes through life

and in each moment sanctifies it, which is a

word that means makes holy or sets it apart.

So, you know, you think of your own life. It's

like Jesus goes through the awkward teenage years

and perfects it for you. And makes that holy

somehow? Yeah. He sort of makes it special and

heals it in every step. Yeah. Okay. To the uttermost,

ultimately, because he heals death. Right. Right.

It's not just the awkward teen moments. It's

not just the, you know, the first job and the

first time you're on your own and all of that.

Yeah. He goes through every stage to the point

of death and therefore he redeems all of human

life. And that's a really great contribution

of the Eastern Church. It's the ultimate ability

to relate. Yeah, I think when we're trying to

get to know someone, we want them to relate to

us or we want to relate to them. part of relationship,

part of community. But Jesus is that great example.

He was in that role. He knows what it's like.

He has been in that place and he can relate to

us. We can relate to him. For sure. Yeah. So

then if all of it matters, you know, from the

moment that Christ takes on flesh up until crucifixion

and the resurrection and so on, like what...

is particularly special about the resurrection,

right? Because the church calendar has all been

oriented around this particular day, right? Like

we worship on Sunday morning because Christ was

resurrected on Sunday. And every Sunday is supposed

to be a kind of mini resurrection day, right?

So what makes the resurrection particularly important?

Well, I mean, Jesus isn't, again, he's not just

going through death, he's defeating death. Right.

Right? And when Jesus comes back to life, it's

not like, it's not like Lazarus, you know the

story of Lazarus? Yeah. So, Lazarus is this guy

who died, and everyone's all sad about it, and

Jesus comes and raises him back to life. Right.

The difference between Lazarus and Jesus is Lazarus

died again. Right. Right? Yeah. He brought Lazarus

back to life to sort of give this sort of sign

of... what was to come. Jesus' resurrection is

different. He doesn't just come back to life

to sort of start the process of aging and dying

again. He comes back to life eternally. That's

why we say eternal life is a part of the Christian

faith. Right? So it's not just resetting the

clock. It's a whole new life. In fact, Paul says

whoever is in Christ is a new creation. Right.

And that's not just because, you know, we're

starting a fresh start. Right. It's like a where

the future is going becomes real in Jesus. And

that's what enables us to take advantage of all

the benefits of the blessings of God. We can

be called righteous because of that. So for example,

you know, when I look at my own life, I don't

feel particularly godly and righteous. I sin

every day. But because Jesus is resurrected,

we get all the benefits as if we were in heaven

right now, fully righteous and fully made holy.

So it's kind of like we get to experience the

happy ending of creation and human life ahead

of schedule. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And resurrection

is important because it's the center point of...

existence, right? The center point of our humanity.

It's like a fulcrum. Everything that happened

before all comes down into that one point of

resurrection. So all of human history, all of

creation, all of the Old Testament, all the stories,

all the promises, all of that just comes right

down into that point, right where the resurrection

happens. And then on the other side of that,

That's where new life comes. And from that point

of resurrection, right from that second, we become

a new creation. And the other side of it just

expands and grows. So the New Testament, the

new life, all the world that exists now, all

of us, are part of that resurrection life. Yeah,

yeah, for sure. It starts a whole new kind of

trajectory, right? It starts this whole new thing

where we can say, yeah, that the new life is

possible, that like, there is hope, even if we

don't always feel it in the moment, right? Like,

we know the end. That's why we have to have faith.

Yes. Right? It's not like, God's like, all right,

I'm going to make you all perfect right now.

Right. If, in fact, if I look at myself, I don't

feel very hopeful. Sure. Right. So the whole

point of scripture is look at Jesus. Like that's

where God's taken you. Right. God is taking you

to the kind of life Jesus has. Right. Fully resurrected,

glorified body in perfect fellowship with God

and humanity and creation. That's where you're

going. But you have to look at him. Yeah. Right.

For it to make sense. Because if you look at

yourself, you're going to feel, well, you know,

I'm still messing up every day. I feel like I'm

part of the old creation. That's why Christians

have faith. That's why we call people to have

faith. And that's the struggle. That's the hardest

part of Christianity, but it's also the greatest

hope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why there's

renewal, right? We get bogged down by our own

experience, by our own sense of sin, our own

self. And then we can experience the renewal

of the resurrection again and grow and build

from there. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to go back

a little bit to that tension between Friday and

Sunday because I think The way that I think I

was sort of conditioned to think about it is

that like Friday is the day when like sin is

dealt with And then Sunday's just like the happy

after party. Kind of thing, right? Like sin is

dealt with, oh, and Jesus is alive and like super

powerful and cool. I mean, there was a bit more

theological language than that, but like to really

dumb it down. That sounds like the Marvel version

of Bible, right? Yeah, Jesus resurrects and then

lands on his knees with his hand and then looks

up in a cool way. Yeah, exactly. The superhero

pose that he lands on the ground. Yeah. But like,

so when I was reading First Corinthians earlier

this week, I was very godly of you. Oh, thank

you. Well, we were going to talk about resurrection

and Paul talks about resurrection and first Corinthians.

So I'm just saying I'm impressed. Okay. Okay,

great. Anyway, he talks about how if Christ is

not raised, then we're dead in our sins. Whereas

like, I don't, I just don't think I've made that

particular connection between like resurrection

and sin being dealt with. Can you like flesh

that out a little bit for me? Yeah, so so we

are sinners who sin. Yes. Right. So if if the

crucifixion was only it, Jesus died. And even

if he let's say he paid the price for our sins

or whatever, we die with it. OK, he's got to

find a way. That's a weird way to put it. But

God's got a. Find a way to deal with the sin

problem and save us Okay. Yeah, right. So So

a human being right who represents all human

beings. Yep dies bears the consequences of all

our sin Yep, but God doesn't just leave us there

right that right the whole point is to save us

To fix us to redeem us to sort of set us back

on the right track, right? So resurrections gotta

happen or Or the point of it. God doesn't just

want to get rid of sin. He wants us. Right? And

to get us, he's got to bring us through that

and give us a new kind of life. Sure. And again,

the cool thing is God's not just doing this from

like an external perspective, like snapping his

fingers and conducting an orchestra of redemption.

He's doing it himself. Right. Like he's standing

alongside us. Yeah. Going through that experience

of death and then coming out the other side.

He's picturing what we're gonna all go through.

Right. One day, which is, I mean, Paul does this,

this is one of the reasons why baptism is so

important, right? Paul says in Romans six, we

go down in baptism. Yeah. Under the waters. or

under the sprinkles. As the case might be. And

then we come out the other side on life. We're

sort of tracing, following Jesus' footsteps.

Jesus did it for us. And we take advantage of

that. Well, it's like you said at the beginning,

Justin, that we were created for a relationship

with God, and we were created in a right relationship

with God. We screwed that up. and it took the

process of the crucifixion and the resurrection

to make it possible for us to once again be in

a right relationship with God. I just I love

how Jesus or God in Christ does that himself.

Yeah. Or God's self. You know, it's not like

God's just throwing a bunch of band -aids at

us and fix your guys, fix yourselves up. Yeah.

Right. He takes on our cause. Yeah. I mean, nobody

does that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, nobody's got the

power to do that. Sure. Right. To have full solidarity.

We try to stand with those who are oppressed

and those who are suffering. Only God can actually

become the oppressed. Right. Become the sufferers,

become the sinners. Right. And then save us through

walking that distance. Yeah. Right. It's pretty

awesome. It's one of the unique things about

Christianity, I think. Yeah. And like. not something

that God has to do, right? God can do it, and

then God chooses to do it, right? And yeah, it's

just, it's wild. Christianity is quite good.

Yes, there we go. We'll just end there. Christianity

is quite good. Rather good, even. Yeah, okay,

great. So I want us to then think about why does

all of this matter today? Like right now when

I was talking to you earlier this morning You

said we're gonna get together today and like

celebrate the resurrection and be like all hype

about this But then we're gonna like go back

out into a world that still kind of sucks. Sometimes

You didn't say it exactly like that, but that's

my paraphrase again Yeah, so Why does the resurrection

matter if we're still living in a world that

kind of sucks? I think it gives us hope I think

if Jesus is alive, then that means that all the

promises are true. If Jesus is alive, that means

that his ministry and what he taught us in that

ministry is true and is right. Hope and mercy

and love. And all those things that we learned

from him during that time, if he is alive, that's

true. And we can lean on those things. It gives

us hope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, Kyle,

you and I were chatting earlier and I was I was

driving here quite early because I'm in the worship

band. So I had to get here at, ironically, an

hour. Thank you, by the way. I'm very impressed.

Yeah, very early So yeah, so I'm like, all right,

I gotta get in the right frame of mind I knew

I'm doing this podcast thing. So I gotta be extra

special godly So I'm like cranking Easter songs

and trying to be like, yeah, this is great And

yeah, then you get here and people are like woohoo

and yeah, there's flags in the back and yeah,

and I'm like, well Nothing really has changed

Right. Like, you know, I don't want to get too

political here, but here we go. Like, our world

is like a mess. Yes. In a lot of ways right now.

I don't think that's political. That's just true.

I'm very stressed and scared about it all the

time. And the fact that it happens to be Easter

Sunday today doesn't change that in a certain

way. Yeah. And we're supposed to be Ra Ra Sis

Boomba at church. Yes. And I thought, oh, you

know, are we kind of being Pollyanna -ish here

and trying to be positive? I thought, no, actually,

this is the substance of Christianity, right?

The whole point is Jesus was resurrected. He's

inaugurated or started this new world, this new

creation, ahead of schedule, right? It's a happy

ending ahead of schedule. And that's why we have

to have faith, like the thing that's going to

get us through all the rottenness of this world.

is looking at Jesus and being like, okay, it's

very bad now, but I know the end of the story

because the end of the story isn't just something

we're waiting for. It's something that's real

in Jesus. So no matter how bad things get, it's

not the final word. I've seen the final word

because I've seen Jesus Christ. Jesus is resurrected.

And that's the end. But it's hard because you

have to be like, You know, that Jesus is more

real than the sin and pain and war and violence

in the world. It takes faith to believe that.

Yeah, Jesus is more real than the things I am

really feeling right now. Yeah, because he's

shown that all those things are pre -Easter Sunday.

Mm -hmm. Right? All the evil in the world, that's

Holy Saturday, that's Good Friday. Yeah. You

know, I mean, this is just a little roundabout

way of saying what that famous sermon says. It's

Friday, but Sunday's coming. I was just thinking

that myself. Yeah. Yeah. I can't say it in the

cool way that the original preacher said it,

but it's true. Or even how Tony Campallo said

it. Yeah. We stole it from the other guy. So

if that's all true, that, you know, we're headed

towards, we know the ending. How does that change

how we live in this moment? Does it change what

we do? It changes. our perspective, I guess is

what we've said, but does it change how we live

our lives? Like Rob said in the sermon this morning,

we talked about the long weekend of Easter, right?

And so, and days of pain and days of doubt and

days of joy. And as he's talking about joy and

he's saying, you know, things are new in every

morning. Things like, you know, your relationships

are redeemed. Your, you know, your career is

saved. You know, all these things that on Easter

Sunday, is possible. But he also said that we're

still living life. I was going to say the S word,

crap happens. Stuff still happens. And we have

to deal with that. So it's still cyclical. of

the redemption of Christ's sacrifice in our lives.

We have experienced Easter for ourselves in a

new life in Christ, but we still have the crappy

days of pain. And we still have the crappy days

of doubt. And so it's cyclical that way. And

that's why it's so great that we are here in

community where when you have your crappy day

of pain, I can share that with you and we can

get through it together. When you have your crappy

day of doubt, I can share that with you and you

can share that with me and we can get through

it together. And same thing when it happens to

me, right? So together. We are it can't experience

the the hope that that Christ offers through

his yeah, man through his resurrection. That's

another Awesome point is that the resurrection

creates the church? Yeah, the church starts well

I won't get into that question, but the resurrection

is very important moment in the birth of the

church Because it's not just Jesus comes to life

and then allows us as individuals to sort of

take part in those blessings. He stitches us

together into a community so that we can now

be what Christ was for us to one another. So

all that stuff I was saying before about solidarity

and standing with us, like we couldn't do that.

But in Christ, we can now. When you're having

a bad day, I can sort of be Jesus to you. It's

not because I'm a great person, it's because

I've been stitched into the life of Christ. and

now we can be Christ to one another. That's basically

what the church is. It's the way that Christ

is ministering to us now in the world is through

one another in the church. Preach on, brother.

Right. Yeah. And I think like my particular heart

and passion is such that like We I think about

that's what the church is in its like local context,

but also in its global context, right? That like

your Baptist is showing, right? But like that's

We get to do that for each other as you just

sort of said but also like we get to do that

Yeah for the local church across the world. Yes,

that's right. Yeah, so like if there's folks

Yeah, I mean we prayed for the persecuted church

earlier. Yeah, which is one way we stand with

them in solidarity We pray for them we speak

for them. We advocate for them. Yeah But again,

it's not just, what's the word from Ecclesiastes?

It's not just a vanity of vanities chasing after

the wind. In Christ, it gets made real, right?

We actually do participate with them. We actually

can petition the Father to be with them because

Christ has made us one with them in him. So it's

not just empty words. And likewise, when we're

having trouble, you know, after the states invades

Canada and we're in trouble, then we'll, we'll

want the rest of the world to pray for us, right?

You know what I mean? Like when, when Christians

suffer and actually, and then we expand that

to the rest of the world, right? We can stand

in solidarity with people who aren't Christians,

right? Cause God loves them as well, but we can

speak Christ to them and stand for them as well.

But that's all because of the resurrection. Otherwise

it's just what? some ideological movement or

something sure this is real yeah i don't know

i feel like every time i sit down and like think

more about jesus i'm more and more realizing

like how small my previous version of jesus was

and i'm just like whoa it does this and this

and that and yeah it's mind -blowing go study

theology folks it's pretty cool uh yeah that

It's so helpful. We're watching someone have

an epiphany right now. This is awesome. Her heart

just grew three sizes bigger. Right. Yeah. No,

thank you both. This has been a really hopeful

and helpful conversation. And I think really

put some like meat onto what we're doing as we

celebrate Easter. Yeah. So in conclusion, Easter

is about bunny rabbits and chocolate. Of course.

I got the chocolate right here. Yes, that's right.

There's your chocolate. Baby, here's your chocolate.

Thank you. Here's my chocolate. I hope you also

enjoy some chocolate this Easter, but also Jesus.

Yeah, and we will see you again next week. Happy

Easter.