Bridging the Gap: Chinese, Christian, Canadian | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and this week

I am sitting down with a couple of other young

adults here at Trinity and we're just going to

talk a little bit about their faith journey and

specifically how that intersects with their families

and their cultural background being, you know,

kids of Chinese immigrants. So I think that'll

be a really... interesting, really helpful conversation.

So maybe, can we start over here? Can you just

introduce yourself a little bit? Yeah. My name

is Jesse. I've been here at Trinity for about

like 15 years or so. I run one of the life groups

for young adults and thanks for having me. Yeah.

Okay. And what about for you? I'm Melissa. I've

I only started going to Trinity, I think, just

like two or three months. But I am also part

of Jessie's Life Group, and it's just been wonderful

here. I love it here so much. Good, yeah. So

maybe we can just start and you can tell us a

little bit about your family's sort of backgrounds.

So as I said, you both come from parents who

are immigrants to Canada from a Chinese background.

So maybe, yeah, tell us a little bit about that

story. You want to start Jesse? Yeah, so for

my parents, they came from Hong Kong. So I'm

from Hong Kong descent. I was born here in Canada,

though, in terms of like, I think my parents

came here in Canada roughly around 19, late 1970s

or early 1980s. It was like one of the first

waves I think of Hong Kong expats up before Hong

Kong was passed over from British rule to communists.

And so that's probably the reason why they came

over here. And it's interesting as they actually

met through church as well. I think it was in

a church in Peterborough. And yeah, so that's

kind of like the background for me when it comes

to where my parents from or anything and kind

of tied to their faith as well. They started

our family. So they immigrated here sort of separately

and then met once they were in Canada. Okay,

cool. And what about for your family, Melissa?

So my family and I, we immigrated to Canada from

China when I was two years old, so in 2001. And

they met in China. We were married in China.

I was born there. When we came here, my parents

are not Christian, but they did bring me to a

Chinese Christian church just to be part of community,

which is something a lot of people from immigrant

backgrounds do, because churches are welcoming,

they don't turn people away, and so that's where

I was introduced to God. Melissa, you said, you

know, your parents didn't come from a Christian

background, but you were introduced through this

church. So like, what has faith sort of looked

like in your life? Yeah, it's interesting because

thankfully I'm very blessed that my parents,

even though they personally have not given their

life to Jesus, they are very encouraging and

accepting of my faith, and I know that's not...

a story that everyone has. So even though I,

you know, like I love going to church, I wanted

to get involved, even when I was baptized, my

mom and dad were both there. So sometimes it's

just like, me having to take this step, but I

have been fortunate in having supportive parents,

and I fully believe that God will reveal himself

to them one day, and I'm praying for that. Yeah,

yeah, for sure. And what about for you, Jesse,

what has your sort of faith journey with your

family looked like? It's kind of the, quite the

opposite, where I'm lucky enough to be born and

raised in a Christian family, so I guess that

for both my parents, since they met in church

and everything, when they did have me and my

sisters, we were basically raised in the faith,

especially in regards to, like, kind of the exposure

in general. So we went to like church every Sunday,

a lot of stuff when we were exposed to the kids,

like, you know, Veggie Tales, I think was, most

kids back in the 90s, how they had Christian

content kind of provided for them. And then we

also have like, you know, devotions and other

stuff. So it's always kind of been a big part

of the backdrop for me, though, I would say,

I think with like many people who are born of

the faith, you do have to actually take your

time to actually commit yourself to Christ. And

for me, I don't think I really took my faith

seriously in terms of having ownership of, you

know, Moving forward my own faith journey until

roughly around grade four and five for myself

So there was some time before I really got to

that point. Sure. Yeah. Yeah It's it's interesting

because you're both, you know, you're coming

from different places But the sort of commonality

is like that the church provided you with a sense

of community, right? And especially like you

said your parents met at at a church, right Jesse?

So there's that sense of like yeah, like As you

sort of said really, really nicely Melissa, like

when immigrants are coming in and looking for

community, like church is a place that really

provides that. So yeah, that's really cool. Are

there ways that you think that your sort of cultural

background has influenced the way that you express

your faith or the beliefs that you have? Yeah.

I would say that I I mean I can only speak for

people who are coming from um kind of like a

Chinese or East Asian background but I believe

that this sentiment carries across for like all

Asian Christians which is that when you think

of someone who's Christian you don't visualize

someone who is a basically someone who's Chinese

because I think Christianity has been seen as

more of like a western religion right and I think

just having kind of like that um idea because

Christianity it's not a western religion it's

it's literally not that you know when you say

I'm Christian and they're like oh but you're

also Chinese right and it's just like well why

can't those be the same things and I think it

is because like people don't associate Chinese

people with being Christian or people from East

Asian backgrounds as being Christian and I think

that sometimes has impacted me where sometimes

I'm like oh like very young I'm like this is

something that doesn't go together. Like I think

it doesn't go together because I'm not seeing

that on the media or around me, right? But then

really God was just like... As I grew closer

to him just realizing that like there's no nationality

or ethnicity or background associated with Christianity

Christianity is for every single person Jesus

died for every single person and I think it's

important to break down those like Stereotypes

associated with Christianity because it can be

a disservice to people who are coming from a

Chinese background And they might start questioning

if they can be Christian. It's like you can be

so I think in that aspect sometimes being Chinese

might caused a bit of tension when I was younger,

but God really led me through that. Yeah, yeah,

for sure. And you said when you sort of first

came, you were attending a Chinese church, right?

And so are there ways that like that experience

is different than being, you know, Trinity is

not a Chinese church. There are some folks of

different Asian backgrounds, but it's predominantly

white, right? Yeah. So how has that been different

for you? Again, I can only speak for myself.

It hasn't been too different because I did grow

up in Mississauga, which is incredibly diverse.

So I think it's always been something that doesn't

like if I'm in a space where there's not many

Chinese people or there are many Chinese people

I'm like, it's I'm cool with it either way. I

think it's just I fell in love with Trinity just

because everyone's so warm and you give back

to the community. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What

about for you, Jesse? Are there ways that you

feel like your cultural background, your family

background has shaped your faith? Yeah, it's

interesting because for my, compared to Melissa's

experience, I felt maybe because I, starting

off even for my first school, it was a Christian

private school and it was very diverse in that

one too. So I didn't quite have the same experience

in terms of like coming to grips with it, seeing

as like a Western religion. I felt like it was

quite broad when it came to. ethnicity because

there's so many people in my school that... they're

black, they're Chinese, they're white, it doesn't

matter. But I feel like in terms of my actual

Chinese background, the funny part is that for

most first generation Chinese immigrants, I'd

be considered a banana. So yellow on the outside,

white on the inside. I definitely have some aspects

of that. But I think one of the things I did

inherit culturally speaking was kind of the,

and this kind of ties into a lot of East Asian

cultures as well, that deference to authority,

especially regarding your elders and family.

And so that's one thing that me and my younger

sister, always found weird when it came to when

we heard people's struggles like, oh, you know,

sometimes I feel like I want to like blame God

for stuff, especially like, let's say things

bad happen or things don't pan out the way you

want it. And from our perspective, it's like

you never blame the person who's like on top

almost. You always say like, oh, it must be something

wrong with me. Right. So me and my sister always

feel like, oh, like we never blame God if something

went wrong or we were unhappy with something

that happened or he didn't necessarily answer

our prayers. We're like, oh, maybe something

about maybe I'm not worthy enough or maybe God's

punishing me because I'm sinful, which is like

a double It's good in the sense that you never

really, so any case where, you know, something

go my way and undermine my faith in God, but

it was also not a healthy mindset in the sense

that it could lead to like potential self -pity

or loathing. And that was something I had to

kind of like navigate myself through early on

in my faith journey before I came to realize

that's not really the way to think about it.

But that was kind of the default based on kind

of the Chinese cultural backgrounds raised with

my parents. Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting

to think about. Yeah, how those those power dynamics

play a role right in in our faith and I think

Yeah, just so interesting even I think that like

for folks like myself who sort of grew up because

I grew up in rural Nova Scotia We're like, yeah

everybody not everybody but most people looked

like me and we all sort of had the it was rather

homogenous in a lot of senses, right? So we always

sort of I never really had to stop and reflect

on like, how does my culture influence my faith

because they just like, everybody was doing the

same thing, right? Yeah, so then to think about,

oh, like this is how, yeah, our cultural perspectives

really do make a difference in like, how we understand

God and how we experience faith. Yeah. Are there

other beliefs or other sort of practices that

sort of stand out to you in terms of, you know,

how you think about your faith? Honestly, like

I feel like some aspects of it's like for example

like the holidays okay so like it's interesting

because like for times New Year usually it's

more you know within those like the zodiac stuff

and everything sure but if anything it's funny

because for our family we kind of use it as another

excuse to thank God for stuff. So it's almost

like another Thanksgiving, but Chinese -oriented.

So we shift a little bit away from maybe the

more Chinese -focused myths towards just using

that more of a reason to praise God instead.

So there's cases like that where we almost Christianize

parts of the Chinese cultural offense that we

have. Not to say we ignore it entirely, but obviously

that's more of a focus rather than necessarily

some of the more traditional aspects that we

still It's mainly the food for us and the reason

to come together as family and then celebrate

God for what He's given us as well. So I think

that's one example, I think, off the top of my

head. Yeah, yeah. I would say, so, you know,

my family, we do celebrate Chinese New Year as

well. We celebrate the Mid -Autumn Festival and

that's just food. We just kind of eat it. In

terms of kind of like the more traditional aspects

and like, you know, the reasons, like you said,

the zodiac or like the moon. Myself and my parents

and I we don't really know too much about that

It's not something that they really taught me

when we came to Canada So it is like I have a

lot more knowledge about like Canadian holidays

than I do about Chinese holidays But I think

it's important that you know, whether you're

coming from a Chinese background or from any

background That's not Eurocentric and you're

celebrating holidays that are not Canadian holidays,

you can still include God in that. You know,

it's like if we're celebrating a new year according

to this other calendar, like you said, like still

give thanks to God for a new year. Thank God

for the food, for the community, for the people.

I think just really just keeping God at the center

of everything you're doing and just also being

mindful too that maybe there's some things you're

not fully comfortable with and that's okay. You

can just say no to that. Yeah, yeah, for sure,

for sure. And I know, so you mentioned your parents

came from Hong Kong. And is your family from

mainland China? Yeah, okay. So Jesse, you were

mentioning to me before, like in your family,

you speak Mandarin? Cantonese. Oh, Cantonese.

And your family speaks Mandarin. Yeah. Okay.

So are there ways that you think that your language

background has sort of influenced your faith?

I mean, I know If you've been attending, you

know, English -speaking churches, that might

not be as much of a thing, but I know sometimes

when I go and visit people in other countries,

like, the way that they think about God is different

because of the language that they use to think

about God. So are there ways that that is also

true for you guys? I would say personally for

me, because I have... I grew up more English

speaking than I am Mandarin. That is the language

I feel more comfortable listening to sermons

in that I don't really know if it might be different

if someone were saying a sermon in Mandarin or

Cantonese. Maybe that's something my parents

can speak on since they're more fluent in that

language. I would say that Something that's interesting

is you know even the Bible itself. It wasn't

originally written in English, right? Yeah, and

but by being translated to English some of the

words did lose the nuances and complexities that

the words had and maybe Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic

and so I sometimes wonder you know because there

are some words in Mandarin that You just don't

have words for an English right that I wonder

if it may be a translate it could translate closer

to the original text of the Bible if it is a

Mandarin or maybe it's a little bit different

and you have to look at it through more of a

Chinese context. So I think that's something

that I think I would love to experience if I

were to grow my Mandarin speaking skills. I think

I'm going to send a spot to Melissa because there's

a reason why I set up Medana. So that functionally

also means that I'm almost like a literate when

it comes to Cantonese sometimes. So a lot of

my information comes from my dad who's actually

fluent in everything. And so it's interesting

because sometimes he tells me like the literal

translations, for example, when we call God in

Cantonese, it's tin foo, which is basically like

sky God. But then it's interesting because then

they also when they say, like, for Jesus, it's,

uh, yeah, so, which is like, I think, sort of,

sort of, like, be similar to, like, Yeshua, like,

just, like, closer to the original, uh, I think,

like, Jewish Aramaic that they would use to,

like, say Jesus' name. So, it's interesting seeing

different parts where, like, it's literal, just

like, okay, we're just gonna use, like, Chinese

words for this, and then other ones where, like,

they try to, kind of, like, um, anglicize it

in the way they actually say the name. So, again,

I don't know about, like, the content, so I'd

definitely ask more on that, but... The only

thing I can kind of bring up with, and this is

the weird tidbit, that's funny because I think

this is less to do with the language itself and

probably the context of when I guess Christian

is viewed through a different lens. This is a

little bit different because this is obviously

tinged by. the communist version on the mainland.

But like I know that they rewrite parts of the

Bible that didn't actually happen through there.

Right. But those are like the state -sponsored

ones, not the underground churches I would I

think are legitimate. So just to give you an

example, this is a really bad one. This is one

that came up because I took an East Asian course

and they talked about the Bible there. There's

you know the part where you know they were going

to stone the woman for I think being like a prostitute

or whatever. Oh yeah for adultery. So let he

who casts, let he without sin cast for stone.

Right. And so It's funny for that one because

I think they changed it to say like They actually

ended up stoning her instead and just like oh

and they tried flaming her in the context of

like Oh, no one's perfect. So you can do it.

You can you can just do it. Anyways, I was like,

oh that's wrong. That's that's very That's very

bad. I know I know it was just interesting like

wow, okay, they taste a lot. Yeah. Yeah interesting

Yes Well, okay. Yeah so you're obviously, folks

coming from Chinese backgrounds, but you're also

young adults hanging out here in our church.

And so I think sometimes that also creates differences

in the way that we experience our faith versus,

you know, kids, obviously, or versus, you know,

older adults. So what do you think, like, how

has your experience at this age being in this

sort of community, how has that shaped your faith?

Because when I was younger and I was reading

the Bible, I'll be honest, like, I was in high

school, like middle school, reading KJV and I

was like, I don't know what's happening, but

I'm just gonna keep reading. I'm like, I don't

know what's happening. But I think now that,

and so when I was younger, a lot of times, like

following God, it did feel a little bit like,

like Jesse said, like I had to or I was gonna

be punished. And I think I was looking at through

a lens where I didn't have a lot of, you know,

adults that were kind of guiding me. So I was

just trying to understand it myself, but now

being an adult and I know that there's versions

other than the KJV and I can read and I can learn.

It's like, I feel really, really grateful to

be in this place where I know more about who

God is and I see his love all around me. And

I think that's something that, you know, how

you understand God in the Bible when you're younger

is different than how you understand God in the

Bible when you're older. I think I've understood

more about God's love now that I'm older. understand

that I also can be a light for other people,

that Jesus can work through me for other people.

When I was younger, I didn't really see that.

I think I didn't feel like as a kid I could.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. What about for you, Jesse?

Yeah, no, I think a big part of the kind of being

in a... in your faith journey as a young adult

compared to maybe when you're younger. I feel

like it's a lot more communal now because everyone's

kind of roughly at that life step where you can

you have all had these experiences and everyone

has different parts of their faith journey but

everyone's really open to kind of sharing and

supporting one another. I feel like obviously

when you're like going through Sunday school

or you know other stuff you're kind of just going

in there for like the Sunday and you just don't

really see each other outside of that. I know

youth group also exists but I feel like it's

quite different once you're actually you know,

actually you're intentionally meeting every week

when you have a work life and you have all this

other stuff happening and you're actually setting

aside and everyone kind of knows, you know, how

life is. And I think we're also a lot more open

to saying like, hey, we need help with this or

we can actually have deeper discussions. That's

kind of facilitated by us more so than the church

itself. Like obviously we're still meeting within

the church and we're part of the community. But

I think that makes a big difference to really

you know, grow in your faith alongside other

people. Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's that aspect of

like chosen community versus like youth group

is like great. And you like get all of these

different people together. But when you're still

living under your parents, like. rules and house.

Like it's like, okay, I'm going to go because

like somebody's forcing me to go. Yeah. It's

like, it's kind of like facilitated for you,

right? But this was like, again, like I think

that found aspect of that group and choosing

to be part of that community and building it

with your own. It's, it's a lot more, I think

intimate because of that. Cause you can see the

different parts of the group that you've contributed.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I mean like for you

too, Melissa, like, you know, you, you don't

have a family that's like pressuring you into

church, right? And so you are, yeah. You're choosing

that community. Yeah, if anything, it's if you

guys meet my mom, it's more so me being like,

mom, let's go to church. Let's go to church.

Right. And I think that's something that, you

know, not even just for people who are coming

from a non -Christian family, even just anyone

coming from any Christian family that even, you

know, when you're younger, the understanding

that you have about God and actually having that

relationship with Jesus is something that I think

you can make that decision multiple times in

your life and ultimately like dedicate yourself

to Jesus whether you're a kid or adult but I

definitely think that you know when you are in

a community of like -minded people it just it

kind of like for me it kind of reaffirmed that

like yeah like I don't have to go through this

alone I can be around other people and not only

that I can also be alive for other people that

they could maybe They're like, oh, okay now I

want to come to church and they learn about Jesus.

Yeah Yeah, and to get to do that in a community

of people like we So I'm also in this life group

that the two of you are in. Yeah. So to get to

do that in a community of people who have some

similarities. We're all in similar life stages

and have some similar experiences, but also are

so diverse. People diverse ethnically, diverse

in terms of work and schooling background and

all of these things. Yeah, I think it really

enriches our faith. Right? It gives us this space

where we get to figure it out together and we

get to like learn from each other. Right? And

see like, oh, like I never would have thought

about it that way. Or like, you know, this this

experience that you're bringing in like helps

to illuminate the scripture in a new way. Yeah,

I agree. And I think, you know, Again, I can

only speak for myself, but when I was younger,

I saw Christianity kind of like in a one -size

-fits -all kind of thing. But now that I've grown

and even just being in Life Group and being in

Trinity, just understanding that you can come

from so many different backgrounds, but what

connects us all is just Jesus. It's Jesus, right?

And it's like you don't have to be like another

person to call yourself a Christian. Yeah, I'm

grateful to learn that. Yeah, super cool. I think

this has been a really sort of helpful way for

us to start to understand. what it looks like

to bring our whole selves into our faith, right?

You know, you reflected Melissa on this point

that like, you know, at one point maybe you thought

like, oh, Christianity isn't for someone like

me, someone who looks like me or has my background.

But you found a home in it, right? And that's

really beautiful. And something I just like love.

like learning about, I just love learning about

history and just learning about how the church

spread and the missionaries and, you know, not

even just like for China, even just like for

like other countries as well. This, I think someone

might need a fact check me, but I believe it

was Saint Thomas, doubting Thomas, who actually

brought the gospel to India, you know, and that

was something I didn't know because I just automatically

assumed like, oh, it just went to North America,

but no there's such a rich deep history of Christianity

all over the world and there's Christians literally

in every single country. There's you know Christians

who are being persecuted for their faith, who

are dying for their faith, who have to like are

imprisoned for their faith or have to kind of

like hide it so that they aren't you know imprisoned

or killed and I think it's just like if anyone

who Maybe it's from a Chinese background from

a background that's different than what they've

seen in the media when it comes to Christianity

I just want to say like explore that because

like Christianity is for you, you know Jesus

is for you And ultimately it's God's will that

not oh my gosh I don't want to say the scripture

the verse wrong, but it's like God he Doesn't

intend for any of his children to be to be lost.

Yeah. Yeah, so I think it's just Christianity

is for you. It doesn't matter where you're coming

from. Yeah, and as you were talking about, you

know, Thomas or whoever it was that brought the

gospel like to India, I was thinking like Christianity

never started in North America. Christianity

didn't even start in like Great Britain or something.

It started in the Middle East, right? I mean

like Christianity was in Africa before it went

anywhere else, right? And the Ethiopian Bible

is older than the KJV Bible, you know, so I think

that when we perpetuate, you know, I think people

maintain the stereotype that Christianity, again,

is a Western religion. But I think it's important

to break that down because if we don't break

that down, it can make a lot of people feel like

Christianity isn't for them and then the meaning

of the gospel gets lost, right? Because Jesus

died for all of us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

100%. Yeah. Yeah, oh, that's so good. Yeah, no,

it's so great to just recognize that Jesus was

for everybody, right? Jesus was not just a one

dude looking for everybody to be exactly like

Jesus. I mean, yes, like Jesus, but not like

Jesus in ethnicity or language or any of those

like superficial labels. Yeah, there's not a

cookie cutter approach when it comes to it. And

so you can come as you are to Jesus where you're

at. And I think that's the biggest part is that

it doesn't matter what stage of life you're in.

God is always open there for you, right? Yeah,

yeah. So good. Yeah, well, thank you both very

much. This has been a really good conversation.

And thank you for tuning in to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. I hope that you have also been

able to find some hope and some encouragement

to figure out what Jesus looks like for you and

how you are also called to be part of this beautiful,

diverse family. And we'll see you next week.