Becoming Our Parents (Kind Of) | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and this week

I'm sitting down with three very special folks

to talk about their family and how family intersects

with faith. And so, yeah, I'll just get them

to start by introducing themselves. So who do

we have here? My name is Bill, Bill Cumming.

Yes. Yeah, Bradshaw. I'm Bill Cumming. Okay.

And I'm the father of it. You're the father of

it all. Okay. And who do we have here? My name

is Max Bradshaw, and I am the youngest of all

of us. Okay. Okay, well, that makes me in the

middle then, doesn't it? I'm Allie, Allie Bradshaw.

Okay. Bill is my dad. Max is my son. Okay, great.

Yeah, so all of you have been part of... Trinity's

family, Trinity's life at some point. And yeah,

I just thought it would be fun to talk about

how your faith has been similar, but also the

different paths that you have all taken. Yeah,

so maybe the first question that I just have

is in thinking about family, how have your parents

or grandparents helped to sort of shape your

faith journey? Maybe we'll start with you, Bill.

Because I'm the oldest. Well, just because you're

here. Because you're the most handsome. Yes.

I grew up in a Christian family and it became

my way of life from knee high until it came to

the stage where I proclaimed my faith publicly

and joined a church. Sure. But that was a long

time ago. I've never had a Damascus Road event.

I can't say, oh, that's what. Sure. I just, I

grew up with it and grew into it. Yeah. That

wasn't Trinity. No. That was 3 ,000 miles away.

And not even in church I finished up with in

Scotland, but in the village church. Okay. And

I just grew through that, became, as a Presbyterian.

Should I mention that? Oh, sure. Here we go.

You're so welcome, yeah? Yes. She's worried because

I said my mission in life was to convert Anglicans

to Presbyterianism. Oh, I see. And now we've

got you here. Yeah, and that was why I emigrated.

Yeah, I was 50 years an elder in the Church of

Scotland. Okay. It's sort of ingrained into me.

Yeah. But you worship God, whatever you worship

God. Well, of course. But I came to worship here

because they were here. I see. Actually, that's

why we came to Canada. Yes. It wasn't really

a missionary event. Right, just more of a family

event. Yes, sure. Okay. That's a start. Yeah,

no, that's a good start. Yeah, what about for

you, Max? How have your parents or grandparents

influenced your faith? Well, my faith hasn't

been going quite as long as theirs has. But it

really was, we moved to Canada and then we started

coming to this church. And from there, Most of

my faith journey has been here just because this

is where I've been most of my life. And since

then, I've kind of gone off to Guelph and found

a church there. And then there's a church up

in Muskoka where Chloe's parents are. So I have

a few different churches that I've been to. But

this one has been my main one. But really, it's

just because my parents brought me here. This

is where I've grown up, where I've been connected

with other people. And then my grandparents would

come before they moved here. They would come

every six months or so, visit. and then they

come here and sort of get to know people before

they moved here so right everyone was already

coming here and it's just been a nice place to

grow up and get my basis of faith started sure

thanks to my parents yeah yeah for sure and what

about for you Allie I was going to say, Max was

actually baptized in a church also called Trinity

in Bristol in England. Oh, okay. Where he was

born. So you did have a church that you don't

remember before you came here. Well, kind of

like my dad with my, and Max, you know, being

brought up in a Christian household. I was always

at church from the beginning. So church was a

way of life, but it becomes... You know, I think

that's the gift that your parents give to you,

that they take you and you're introduced and

you learn. And then eventually you have to take

your own step and you have to make your own faith

choice. And so I started off in Moncrief, Moncrief

Parish, the Presbyterian Church in East Kilbride,

where I grew up. when Rick and I were married

and living in Bristol. We tried at a couple of

different churches. We ended up in a church called,

it was a Trinity as well, an Anglican church.

And it had a fantastic student life. There would

be a Sunday evening service. And there were hundreds

and hundreds of young adults all in their kind

of... 20s and 30s there. And then I changed to

the 9am service when I had Max. Right. It was

a bit of a shock to the system. I'm sure, yeah.

And then when we moved here, I'd never been before.

We didn't know anyone here, but I did have faith

that we would find a church and I would find,

I know the benefits of a church family. I know

how important it is to have other Christians

around you to support you and encourage you and

guide you. Within a couple of weeks of moving

here, we found Trinity. And after the first service,

I came on my own. Rick was watching the kids

and I came on my own. And I went back home and

I said, that's it. I know where we're going.

I've found it. Wow. Oh, that's so cool. And we've

been here ever since. So that's 21 years this

summer. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so church and faith

has always sort of been a family affair, I guess,

for all of you. It's something you grew up in,

but also something you continue to sort of choose

for yourselves. Yes, even now. Even now. Even

in an Anglican church. God is still in an Anglican

church. And this is life. So I'm wondering, I

know, like, so you've already sort of mentioned,

you know, that we're all at different sort of

life stages. And I think as we grow up and get

different roles and things, that shapes our faith

in different ways. So are there any ways that,

you know, being a parent or a grandparent has

helped to shape your faith in a particular way?

That's a difficult one. Not that I'm aware of.

Sure. But I think somewhere in there, probably.

Okay. And there are stages within that. I mean,

I look at Ali now in the church, and I don't

think I've ever told her this, but when she decided

to declare her faith and join the church, I was

session clerk at the time. And my role with the

minister was to welcome, as we talked about,

new communicants. Okay. And it had never been

shared with me until just before the event who

the new communicants were. Oh, OK. So the minister

knew. Yes. But I got a bit of a surprise when

Alison Cumming was on the list. Yeah? Because

I knew nothing about it. She'd done this on her

own. Right. And Rob talked about it. or sins

and all that. My pride, I have to admit, I was

very proud when she did it. And I can always

remember when it came to the elders all went

along and shook hands with them and welcomed

them. And when I came to Ali, I thought, nah,

I'll kiss her. So I shook hands with the rest

and I kissed her. I really was, I was very proud

of her because she had done that. That's part

of the development of the family and the faith.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And it's carried on.

What about for you, Ali? Are there ways that

being a parent has shaped your faith or changed

your understanding of God? See, I would say absolutely.

When I became a parent, I really had a completely

different view of the depth of God's love. And

it also... Shows a different depth of mercy and

forgiveness. And it just changes your prayer,

changed my prayer life. You know, it's a different

kind of focus. Just really realizing how much

you have to surrender to God's will and God's

timing from sleeping through the night to kids

going to school, to them traveling, to just not...

I'm not in control. It really did. It taught

me about love. It taught me about surrender.

It taught me about trust. So all of that, really,

when I had my boys, I have another one as well.

Connor's working today. When Max was the first

and Connor's younger. And when I had my boys,

it really, and I thought, my goodness, if I have

this love for them, and God is bigger than all

of this, oh my goodness, how much does he love

us? Yeah. So that changed my perspective and

my relationship with God. Yeah, for sure. Every

aspect of my faith, I think it deepened it. And

that's the thing, you know, as Dad said, I'm

the same, you know, it wasn't the Damascus Road

event for me either. But there have been events

along the way which have been pretty life -changing

on my faith journey and becoming a parent was

one of them. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think there's

an awareness. As you grow up in it and as you

grow with it, there is an awareness of God's

love and God's presence in your life. Yeah. Yeah,

you get used to it. It's a bit like, I always

feel about prayer. You can have a particular

prayer at a particular prayer time, but there

are many times during a day when... You just

have that thought and you pray to God that, you

know, thank you or more often help me. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think that

you grow up in that and you get used to it and

it becomes a way of life. Yeah, for sure, for

sure. So thinking about... your family, and you're

all sort of growing up in faith together and

in different stages and things. So how would

you say that your family has encouraged you to

grow in your faith? Maybe we'll start with you,

Max. Yeah, I didn't get to go in the last one.

Yeah. Yes, you're not yet a parent. No, not yet.

Not for a while, probably. That's okay. I don't

know if I'm ready to be a grandparent yet. I

think everyone in my family, I think, kind of

serves in the church yeah so that was a pretty

big example growing up like my mother was always

involved in like rector's warden stuff just on

the board doing different things and my dad does

a lot of kids church stuff and a lot of stuff

with the prayer committee now so everyone has

always been kind of involved in the church so

I think when I was younger kind of middle school

to high school, I did a lot of the kids' church

stuff here as well. And I think that was a pretty

good way for me to get involved. There was helping

out at kids' church. There was, of course, Camp

Trinity. A big shout out there. Lots of fun.

Great time. And I was even in Nicky and the Bradshaw

Boys. band that we had for a while okay it was

very cool there was a couple years where we had

a band downstairs um we would do a couple songs

kind of every other week and that was that was

a lot of fun yeah kind of our own little worship

band for the kids uh it was a lot of fun songs

like god's love is bigger than a burger okay

wow It's kind of more of a basis. You still know

the words for it, don't you? Oh, yeah. Bigger

than a burger, bigger than a house, bigger than

an elephant, and bigger than a mouse. Okay. Fantastic.

Poetry. Yes. But it's like a basis to how we

can introduce kids, right? Yeah. So I found,

I mean, my dad does kids' church. I did kids'

church. I think it's a great way to serve because

you are. You have to know the material to teach

it or explain it. So then it forces you to kind

of look more in depth. So I think just everyone

being involved in the church kind of helped me

to get involved and to serve just for the community

and the church. Yeah, yeah, for sure. What about

for you, Allie? Are there ways that your family

has helped you to grow in your faith? I think,

you know, there's obviously I learned a lot through

my mum and dad and their encouragement. And,

you know, the same thing. I grew up seeing my

dad and my mum doing things in the church. In

fact, in some ways, I feel like I became my dad

a bit. All those things, you're like, I will

never do that. I will never do that. And probably

when I was about 12, that consisted of... he's

just always talking. We can't get home. Church

is finished. I've heard that. I've heard that

from the boys just to walk home sometimes on

a Sunday because Rick and I were doing stuff.

But then at the same time, my kids have helped

encourage me and they've inspired me. When Connor

was 16, just before COVID hit, he... He did some

work with the minister then, Simon, and Connor

preached twice. He preached in the January and

he preached, he preached, he spoke. But he spoke

from his heart and he spoke from his faith. And

I was so proud, just proud to see him owning

his faith and see him sharing what he's learned

and where, you know. just where he wants to go

with his faith and how he talks to his friends

about it. So I learn from my kids too. Yeah,

yeah, for sure. I think that's quite amusing

actually that you talk about you see you do what

I did. I can always remember back home it was,

oh, oh, you're Ali's dad. Okay. And then I come

here and it's, You know how it is, Dad. Nothing

changes. No, no, guess not. But what about for

you? How has your family encouraged you or helped

you grow in your faith? Well, as I already said,

I'm not conscious of my family having done it.

Again, I'm conscious of them being there. What

Ali said about having to... going our own because

I was always talking to somebody or doing something.

I always vowed I wouldn't actually get that way

because I had been there. My father was like

that. And I didn't want to become like my father

in the church. I wanted to be more involved with

my family. And guess what? I got involved in

the church. I became very like my father in the

church. And his time was something like 20 years

as a session clerk. I was 15 years a session

clerk. Okay. 50 years an elder. So, yes, I was

steeped in it. Yeah. And it became more of a

priority than my family. And I'm not recommending

that. And I'm not saying it's a good thing. Sure.

But, yes, I fell into the trap. Yeah. And I think

it's worth noting. You should limit what you

do. You've got to get your priorities. Sure.

Church is a priority, but your family should

top it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting

to hear you all sort of reflect in different

ways about how you look at your parents and you

say, okay, well, that's good maybe, but that's

not how I'm going to be. And then, yeah, for

better or for worse, we often end up mimicking

that. And it's really easy. You know, it's the

whole Mary Martha thing. It's really easy when

you're in a busy church community with a lot

going on. It's really easy to get involved. But

also remembering that it's not just about serving.

It's about growing your faith. And what you're

doing, where you're volunteering, is it also...

supporting your spiritual life and your faith

development. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. It does

give me a glimpse as to what I am most likely

going to see of myself in the future, if everyone

in my family has been doing the exact same thing

over and over, especially now that I'm engaged

to someone whose father is a minister and mother

does a lot of kids' church as well. Right. It's

probably going to be a lot of serving in the

future. Sure, sure, yeah. And I think Allie was

sharing with me earlier this week, you're also

thinking about, you know, yeah, your own sort

of church. leadership path as well yeah so I

guess yeah we have to look kind of well we've

just moved so we were at a place in Guelph and

we're going to a church and there was actually

a few people from Trinity who had gone to Guelph

University as well and we would see them sometimes

at the church so that was kind of nice it was

new people plus familiar faces yeah so it kind

of helps you get more makes it easier to go to

the church yeah you know people you're gonna

see yeah But now we're in Kitchener, so we're

going to have to do kind of the whole thing again.

Look for a new church, kind of scope things out,

see what kind of vibes they have. Sure. And just

kind of figure out where we want to go from there.

Yeah, yeah. When we came here, we didn't think

we were coming to a new church because we've

been coming here for 21 years. Well, I think

you've been 10 years. You've been about 10 years

where you've been visiting and you would come

for six weeks at a time sometimes. So mom and

dad already had friends here. You know, people

on the door when they came in already knew their

names. Yes, it didn't sound like a new church

when we came here because we'd been here. Right.

Yeah. It was a bit different. For sure. So are

there ways that your... faith looks similar to

or different from other people in your family

i mean you you've also talked about okay we're

walking in the path of our parents um but i think

we're you're we're all individuals as well um

yeah so how does your faith look similar to or

different from others okay you want to start

go ahead i never knew my paternal grandpa my

paternal grandfather okay i knew my paternal

grandmother but she didn't attend church okay

and my matern i never knew my maternal grandmother

i knew my maternal grandfather and he had nothing

to do with the church okay so i was moving my

parents rather were moving in a different sort

of path sure from my own perspective well ali

has a brother yes And we went to church as a

family. His mother told him, no, he had to go

to church. There was none of this skipping off

until he was 16. Okay. On his 16th birthday,

he decided he wasn't going back to church. And

I don't think he's been inside the door since,

other than to see her married. And Max baptised.

And Max baptised. That saddens me, but... i know

i'm not alone so i know a lot of good christian

guys whose family have the same sort of thing

that maybe one of the families in church and

yeah one has nothing to do with it i don't know

why that happens um and it saddens me but you

never know yeah the holy spirit could knock on

his door someday And I hope something happens

because it means my granddaughter is having no

introduction to the church. And that's sad. Yeah.

And I'd like to see that happen. Yeah, for sure.

So we can only pray that somewhere along the

line. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The dark will come.

Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that people can

be raised in the same way. But we are individuals

and we make our own choices about how we respond

to that. For sure. The interesting thing is,

okay, they don't come to church. We don't love

them less as individuals. No, of course not.

Yeah, for sure. Just saddened a bit by it, but

yeah. Yeah, for sure. And as I say, I live in

hope. Yeah, it's good. Well, you also, like my

father wasn't initially a Christian when they

got, or... first started dating, my mother did

the flirt and convert. And it worked really well

in your case. I used to take him to youth group.

Okay. He would come to youth group with me. Okay.

Some weekends. In doing that, you were able to

bring him to the church. And then also when his

parents would come and visit, they would also

come to Trinity as well. So same kind of thing.

They were offset from. him kind of right every

few months we get one set and then the other

few months is the next grandparents um so when

they come and visit they would also come to the

church so then it was like our whole family was

known in the church yeah so people knew both

sets of grandparents which was nice even if they

weren't here at all the times but then on the

other side my uncle and aunts and their kids

don't really go to or don't do church either

so yeah it's the same kind of thing one kid is

kind of at church but I guess they were never

brought to church in the same way right well

your dad and his brother went to church as kids

grandma and papa went to church and actually

what was wonderful was after grandma and papa

came to church here then they found a church

again back home in Scotland so they went back

to church The Holy Spirit knocked on their door

while they were here. Yeah. So the darts do fly,

Dad. The darts do fly. But I think another way

to look at are things similar or different. We

all like different kinds of worship and different

kind of churches and church experience. Oh, here

she goes. No, I was thinking of you this morning

when we sang Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine.

Yes. You know, that's a much more traditional.

That's the kind of... worship song that we would

sing in church when I grew up. Yes. Let me just

do a little confession. So when my brother and

I used to go, when we were wee, we all would

go into church with our own hymn books. So there's

a real difference to worship styles now. And

we'd have our hymn books and there would be a

plaque on the wall with the hymn numbers in them

and Neil and I, the first thing we used to do

when we went into church. was look up the hymn

and see how many verses it was and did it have

a chorus? Yes. Because if it was six verses with

a chorus, we would be like, oh. Yeah, yeah. And

so, but I know that my dad loves when we, my

mum and dad both love when we have more traditional

hymns mixed in. And Libby does that quite a lot

here. There's a kind of integration of worship

styles. But I would, you know, talking about

similar and different, we all have slightly different

types of worship style that we prefer and we

enjoy. And we hear, you know, our hearts are

touched in different ways, even within the one

worship service. You know, is it music? Is it

the prayer? Is it? And again, it's different

in each church. I'm sure when you and Chloe,

when you talk about what you'll be looking for

in Kitchener, so what will you be looking for

in your new church? I mean, it's a really good

question. I think we'll probably be looking for

a church that has people kind of our age. Kitchener

is close to Waterloo University. So there's going

to be kind of a younger crowd around. But we

do both enjoy worship. So we will be looking

for a church that's not that's kind of fits our

same kind of worship ideals. Chloe used to sing

with Libby here back when she was here. So she

has also had involvement in worship. So somewhere

that I think we can find a way to serve either

through worship or potentially also working with

kids. Chloe currently works as an educational

assistant. So she's already doing kids stuff

during the week. So I don't know if she might

want to break there and find a different way

to serve. But somewhere I think I had nice welcoming.

It might not be somewhere as big as Trinity.

There's a lot of people here. So if there's less

people, it might be easier for us to kind of

get in there and meet some people. It's not as

scary. But yeah, somewhere I think kind of like

that, we're just going to feel comfortable. And

somewhere where the preacher, of course, we...

think we can hear from or speaks to us. For sure,

for sure. I thought you would suffer. And so

what's interesting to me, and I think is true

of... most people in younger generations is you

didn't mention a particular denomination on that

list of things. No, I didn't. And that might

scare him. Yes. Because he's Presbyterian and

wants to convert the Ancients. I've come a long

way. Yes. I think there's a lot more to finding

a place because the one that we're, the place

that we were going to in Guelph is more of a

Baptist church. Okay. So that's already a few

different things going on here. But I think somewhere

where we can find, A place that wants to worship

Jesus and love Jesus, bring other people to Jesus,

I think is the main thing. And then kind of there

might be some different liturgy stuff that goes

on. But we'll just have to kind of figure out

the vibe, I guess, and see how it is. Because

we just want to celebrate Jesus and worship him.

I love that. And because having a stereotype

of a church is so wrong because Jesus is Jesus.

And he's never changing. And I must admit, when

we moved here, one of the things we said to the

estate agent was we want to be able to walk,

have choice for a couple of churches. And I'd

pegged that there were three churches in Streetsville,

the United, the Presbyterian and the Anglican.

And I have to say, I hadn't thought about going

to the Anglican church. Just being Scottish and

having my encouraging father. And when I was,

it was one morning, I was in a children's play

group and I was telling the woman who ran it,

who was Muslim, the Muslim woman was running

it. And I was saying, I'm looking for a church.

I've got these little babies. And she said to

me, oh, she said, I know a woman that comes,

goes to a great church, family church, great

atmosphere. And she called the woman and put

her straight on the phone to me. And it turns

out. At the time, our associate minister was

called Lance Dixon and it was his wife, Kelly.

And Kelly said, I'll meet you at the back of

the church. Okay. And welcomed me in. And it

was when I got here and I saw it was an Anglican

church. Right. And, you know, it didn't matter

about the name or the denomination. Trinity was

just welcoming and friendly and the community

right from the first day. Yeah. So. Oh, that's

so good. An interesting name. I remember Lance.

Lance baptised Connor. He baptised Connor, yeah.

Okay. There you go. So I'm not new to Trinity.

No, no. I'm not new to Anglicans. No. I've been

around Anglicans. Yes, yes. That's right. Slowly

acclimatising. Yes, yes. It takes longer to change.

I don't think I've converted any. Oh, man. Keep

trying. Okay. But there we go. We're all unique.

Yep. We're all unique, but we're all family and

all loved by God. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. Oh,

that's so good. Yeah. I think it's so neat to

sort of hear, like what I'm hearing in your family

story is that it's a family effort, right? That

you all bring different things to the table.

You all influence and lead each other. But yeah,

that you are also individual people who have

made this decision to keep coming to church,

keep showing up, keep following Jesus. in the

ways that you're individually called as part

of a collective unit. Yeah. Yeah, and I think,

honestly, that's probably the way that it should

be. If we all lived in a perfect world, we would

be people following Jesus in a community of people

following Jesus. Yeah. Whatever that looks like

for us. It's Mother's Day. I think I've got you

through in the point. Yes. Mother had a bigger

influence, I think, on Ali and... Neil than I

had. Okay. Because she was more with them. Yeah.

Okay. So credit her mother. Yes, of course. Yes.

Always, always credit the moms. The moms are

very important people. Oh, I'm not stupid. Good.

Well, thank you all very much. This has been

a really fun, really hopeful conversation. Yeah,

and great to get to know you all a little bit

better. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you.

And thank you for tuning in to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. I hope that you're also able

to take some of these reflections and maybe talk

about faith with your own family and think about

what your faith journey has looked like wherever

you are on that spectrum. And we will see you

again next week.