Authenticity in the Office: Faith at Work | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and this week

we are sitting down and talking with a couple

of folks in our congregation about their work

because we know that Christians don't just exist

inside of the church building here. They also

exist out there in the workplace doing all kinds

of different things. Yeah and so we're talking

with two accountants this week. about their job.

So thank you for joining me folks. You're welcome.

Good to be here. Yeah. So maybe we'll just get

you to start by introducing yourselves. Do you

want to go first here? Sure. I'm JP Strassler

and I've been an accountant for 30 years. Okay.

And I've been at Trinity for just about two and

a half years. Okay. And really excited to be

here this morning. Okay, great. Yeah, so my name

is Aaron, Aaron Marr. I've been an accountant

for almost 30 years as well. Okay. And Trinity

for a couple of years now. Okay. So, yeah. Oh,

great. Yeah. So what prompted you to want to

work in accounting? Maybe we'll start over here

again with you, JP. Why be an accountant? For

me, I guess, a couple of reasons. First of all,

coming out of university, I wasn't sure exactly

what I wanted to do career -wise. I knew it would

be business -related. And since business really

boils down to numbers, I thought an accounting

designation would serve me well. Sure. Also,

most of my friends were doing it. So peer pressure.

Well, it was just, it was sort of neat how my

graduating class at university, most of us all

ended up at the same CA firm. Okay, cool. So

one day we're, you know, university students

and then a couple months later we're kind of

together, but in suits and in a professional

environment, which was funny. And I guess probably

also my mom. She always said, I'd be a good accountant

because I'm an analytical thinker. And she would

quite often say, she'd comment how I like to

take things apart. And it's funny how at that

point in time, because I'm a forensic accountant,

that little did she know that eventually I would

become a forensic accountant, which essentially

involves taking apart numbers and looking behind

them and figuring things out. That's cool. What

about for you, Aaron? Yeah, and I mean, who really,

who wouldn't want to be an accountant? Sure.

I mean, that sounds really interesting, actually.

I think we're selling it well here, right? Yeah,

yeah, yeah. I think enrollment in accounting

is declining, actually, so we have to do our

part here. Yes. Yeah, a lot of it comes, a few

things. I mean, numbers, you mentioned, I've

always loved numbers. I would say it's a bit

of a misconception that Accounting and math are

kind of hand -in -hand, but I loved math. And

that's what I went to university for. I did a

math degree at Waterloo. But also I chose to

do accounting sort of as a minor. That's what

led to my co -op work terms. One thing leads

to another. Get a good job. And, you know, here

I am. But also, again, I had a parental influence

as well. My father's an accountant. So that,

you know, I had heard about it and you know all

that kind of thing as well so yeah that's kind

of what led me into the field and you know I

enjoy it lots of different you know experience

lots of different businesses and you know like

JP says it all a lot of it every business comes

down to to numbers at the bottom right so it's

it's a Interesting field is for sure. Yeah. Yeah

for sure. So maybe before we go any further We've

sort of just said accounting and talked and and

kind of have a general assumption that people

know what that means But maybe they don't know

what that means So like what does a typical like

work day or work week look like for you? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, well, obviously you're gonna get

two very different answers here. Yeah you know

and that's You know, one of the interesting things

is, yeah, you can go lots of different directions.

So for me, I work for, I'm going to say a big

grocery retailer. The name might slip out and

I just don't want people coming to me and complaining

about the quality of their produce if I name

the company. Are the prices? Exactly. Well, we

won't go there yet, right? But we might go there.

So yes. you know, again, I'm responsible for,

you know, making sure we report accurate financial

numbers. And it's a very big company, billions

of dollars in revenues and tens of thousands

of products, all that kind of thing. So it's,

you know, we're making sure we report accurate

numbers all the time. So that our business, you

know, we can make good decisions. So it's either

for me, it's reporting on historical numbers

and then making projections for the future. And

that's what we do. And that's what you know,

as an accountant. That's a traditional accounting

role. JP will probably talk about something very

different. I think we both started in the public

accounting world, which is, you know, you come

out of school, you go into a CA firm, and you're

doing auditing, tax, all the traditional stuff.

And then you can go in different directions.

And then, you know, it leads to other things,

you know, I got involved in some charitable organizations.

And again, Even charities need accountants, right?

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Everybody needs accounts.

And, you know, we have two great ones here or

several great ones here at Trinity. And yeah,

every organization needs needs to know what their

what their financial health is and all that kind

of stuff. Yeah, for sure. Cool. Yeah. So what

about for you, JP? What does work look like?

What does work look like? Well, every day is

different. Sure. So by way of background, yeah,

I'm a forensic accountant. So what that is, I

would describe as sort of a hybrid between a

financial accountant, an auditor, and an investigator.

Okay. So the types of engagements I get brought

into involve Typically, financial disputes, partner

disputes, matrimonial disputes, hidden income,

hidden assets, financial fraud, usually in a

workplace investigation situation, employee dishonesty.

and also just a general like loss quantification.

Okay. Commercial insurance claims a business

has a fire, a flood, a theft. They're closed

for weeks or months and their insurance policy

covers them for lost income. So that has to be

quantified, which involves sort of crystal ball

gazing. You know, what would the business have

earned had the incident not happened. Right.

So projections and things like that. Okay. And

so that's So that's what I do. I knew very early

on when I was, as Erin mentioned, starting off

in a public accounting firm, the traditional

areas there, audits and doing tax returns. I

knew very early on. That's not where you wanted

to be? That's not what I wanted to do. And I

think my work level and my performance reviews

clearly reflected that. But I was fortunate that

at the time, forensic accounting was just becoming

established as a specialty area. And the firm

Alzat actually had the first forensic accounting.

group and because and my work group was situated

in the office right next to them I was always

talking to them and putting my hand up if they

needed extra extra help and so I got some exposure

to it and as soon as I that happened I realized

the light went on this is what I wanted yeah

okay and never looked back okay cool yeah um

so when I asked each of you to sort of do this,

especially you, JP, you said, would anybody want

to listen to a podcast about accounting? But

usually, you know, as soon as you mentioned.

the word accountant or counting, you know, I

start glazing over real quick. So I was like,

are you sure? Do we have any numbers on the screen

that show our views dropping off here? Didn't

I say that? Like you really want people to watch

the podcast. Yes, yes, yes. So and to get like

thumbs up. And you said, sure. No, this is going

to be it's going to be awesome. It is because

you're awesome people doing interesting things.

Oh, you're making us blush. So. Let's make it

exciting. What is your favorite part of your

job? Yeah, Aaron? Aaron's loaded right again.

Well, I don't know. Or favorite memory from your

job? Yeah, memories, I mean... You know, I don't

know if I'm gonna be able to give any good stories

on the you know, what I do is an accountant But

you know early in my career was at the accounting

firm a lot of young people it was it was, you

know High -intensity, but we had a lot of fun.

We had an accounting softball league. So Exciting

right But but now it's you know, what gives me

satisfaction is Making sense out of numbers,

right? It's you know, again a big company like

the one I work in it takes a and analytical,

and I see the value that brings in distilling

numbers quickly and making sense out of them

and communicating them to other people. And again,

one example, I'm on the board of international

teams, which is 10 projects around the world.

And I've sort of gotten involved in that. I can

look at that through a financial lens and hopefully

bring value to um you know to the organization

by so that kind of brings me satisfaction you

know not exciting you know i don't have any great

stories i bet you jp does but uh um you know

that's that's the kind of thing that i i i do

uh like about the about the job and the profession

yeah yeah for sure it gives you those practical

skills and that ability to do things in your

job but also in in other ways right and and like

we said you know every organization Has to have

that. So you can work in any kind of company

you want if you're an accountant. Every, you

know, you want to work for the Toronto Maple

Leaf, they have accountants, right? Right. You

want to work for Trinity Streetsville, they have

accountants. Numbers are numbers. Numbers are

numbers. And it's not about the numbers in the

end. It's about what, you know, it's a means

to an end. Sure. And, and, and, but it's a, it's

a, you know, integral part. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

What, what about for you? Any favourite parts

of your job or favourite memories? Yeah, absolutely.

I'm the kind of person that I get bored really

easily. So what I love about being a forensic

accountant is the variety of work and the challenge

of it. In terms of the variety, like every assignment

is different. Different industry, different businesses,

meeting tons of people from the C -suite down,

different issues. So just, yeah, which I really

enjoy. And then on the challenging side, yeah,

because each assignment's different, there's

no script to follow that you can just sort of

copy and paste and you have to figure out a game

plan each time. There's a ton of analysis, searching

for the proverbial needle in a haystack, the

smoking gun, the fraudulent transaction, which

is... which can involve a lot of digging and

interviewing people that quite often do not want

to be interviewed. Of course, yes. Being able

to develop a rapport with them to get them to

open up. Creativity, strategizing, how -to because

clients don't want to fund an endless fishing

expedition. we need you to figure this out and

let us, you know, confirm yes or no, is this

employee defrauding us? Right. And just in terms

of amount of judgment. Yeah. Because, you know,

ultimately I need, you know, the work product

is to prepare a report where I'm opining as to...

what my conclusions are, whether there is a fraud

or if it's a lost quantification, what the number

is. So all eyes are on me as to what that number

is. And I have to be prepared to go to court

and defend it in my position. That sounds like

a lot of pressure sometimes. I'd call it good

pressure. So for me, I just, I just love it.

Okay. Just, yeah, it's exciting. It's fun. It's

yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So you're both accountants,

but you're also both Christians, people of faith.

And so are there ways that you think your faith

impacts the way that you do your job? Yeah. Do

you think? Yeah, certainly. there's a lot of

overlap between the rules and the standards that

accountants and specifically forensic accounts

need to adhere to. So a lot of overlap between

that and called the attributes of a Christian.

Quality such as honesty, and integrity, and trustworthiness,

fairness. For me, I have to be very, very fair,

or else I'm not serving my clients well if I'm

being biased. So I have to be unbiased and objective.

and not judgmental of others, even if I'm sitting

across from someone who's been accused of stealing

a lot of money from their company. It's not my

role to judge them. My role is to seek the truth

and ultimately that justice prevails. And because

the work that I do is highly confidential, I

can't brag about it. I was hoping for some good

stories here, JP. All the stories. So I see a

lot of alignment between my work and my fave.

Yeah, for sure. What about for you? Yeah, I mean,

certainly off the top. you know, the professional

standards and ethics that JP speaks about, you

know, that applies to all of us who get a professional

designation and, you know, again, there's overlap.

I don't know that I would do it differently as

a Christian or not, but it definitely aligns

with, you know, all those values he spoke of.

But, you know, I think maybe more generally,

just as a you know, going into a corporate workplace,

right? It's about, you know, how I treat the

people I work with, you know, whatever levels

I'm interacting. It's, you know, it's being consistent,

I find, trying to be consistent across all the

areas of my life, right? I try to be the same

person I am at home, as at work, as at Trinity,

as, you know, when I take my kid to the hockey

game or whatever, right? I don't want to be a

different person in those different environments.

So, you know, in the workplace I want to be,

you know, obviously respectful and not engage

in negativity and office gossip and, you know,

display humility, which is, you know, that's

in a corporate company environment, right? That's

a quality that's maybe a little counter to what,

you know, is normal. You know, I want to show

gratitude for my job, right? I'm happy, you know,

there's a lot of complaining and negativity sometimes

about your work environment, your boss, this,

that, right? I'm sure, Kyla, you complain about

love all the time, I'm sure, right? Yes, of course,

yes. But, you know, so I want to be grateful

for my employment and yeah, all that kind of

stuff. I mean this is a you know another in a

big company like mine right we have people you

know making all different wages and things like

that you know I can't do much about it but I

do advocate for fair distribution of you know

wages and things like that if that's a bigger

even than my company is a societal kind of thing

but you know, where I can bring my voice up and

say, this is what I think or believe. It's not

going to maybe make a difference, but you never

know. You never know. You never have to see.

So, yeah, I mean, I think it's it's trying to

be consistent and be that same person. You know,

authentic, authentic, authenticity. Yeah. See,

Paul Henderson out the window. So I. a part of

a leader impact group. I don't know if you're

familiar with that. Either if you're familiar

with leader impact, Paul is a founder, I believe.

And that's business people having a small group,

like Trinity has small groups and we talk about,

we read business books, but we, you know, it's

based on your personal, professional and spiritual

life. How do you, and so, you know, I'm in a

group with some, you know, some of the guys are

retired and that, but they, you know, we talk

about That authenticity and consistency across

different areas of your life. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's so important and something

that We don't necessarily Think about when we

think about Like as as Christians like how does

how does our work like how does our work in our

faith sort of interact with one another right?

Well, I think can be tough when Obviously when

it conflicts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So as Miss Erin

was saying, I feel fortunate that my work is

totally aligned with my faith. So tomorrow morning

when I go to work, I can be the same person.

I don't have to be a different version of myself

or be different, you know what I mean? Which

is a blessing. Yeah, and something that I don't

think people would necessarily Think about not

nothing people say I don't think people think

about Business in any particular way, but right

they don't necessarily stop to think oh if I'm

going into this career Like it aligns well with

my faith right right because you know some careers

to be successful You know you need to act in

in a certain way and have certain you know goals

and values That can certainly be it conflict

with With Christian values. For sure, for sure,

yeah. What about challenges? Are there any ways

that your work creates challenges in your life?

And does it create challenges for your faith

specifically? I mean, work in general takes up

a huge chunk of our lives, right? So it's, you

know, sometimes it's maintaining that balance,

right? The classic work life. balance, right?

So, are you giving too much of your life to your

work and then not balancing it out with, you

know, the other parts? Yeah, how does it, my

profession challenge, or my work challenge, my

faith, I was really challenged, I was really

challenged by some of Rob's sermons on the the

S -words, right? Well, forget about gluttony

for a second, because that was, you know, but

I'm in greed. So greed was a tough, you know,

and I think as an accountant, I'm trained to,

you know, mitigate risk and prepare for contingencies

and to, you know, have the strong balance sheet,

right? And all that kind of stuff, right? And

I found, you know, myself thinking, okay, I'm

not speaking for all accountants, but if I do

that in my personal life, right? And, okay, I'm

an accountant. I can manage my financial, you

know, well -being. I don't need anyone else to

take care of me. I can mitigate risk. Then I'm

not trusting God for anything, right? You know,

and that was the subtlety, I think, of the...

That was really the subtlety that Rob spoke about,

you know, in that series of, you know, am I...

If I left room for God in my, you know, in my,

and again, as an accountant, I feel like, okay,

I can manage this. I can do it, right? I know

how to handle my finances, but that's not trusting

God with a portion of it. So that's a challenge

for me. That was a big challenge for me, actually.

Yeah, over to you, JP. For me, Yeah, I guess

two things. First of all, being a forensic accountant

and also having my own practice just amplifies

the time pressures. As a forensic accountant,

because the assignments are all one -offs, so

there's absolutely zero predictability to when

an assignment is going to come in. how big it's

going to be, and therefore the resources that

will need to be wrapped around it, the urgency

of it. Sometimes you get a call and say, OK,

we need you to be somewhere in basically two

hours in a boardroom downtown because things

are happening tonight. Right. And the bell rings.

So yeah, so it can be just tough to manage at

times and avoid working the crazy hours. But

that's just sort of part of the gig, I'll call

it. And I've been fortunate that it's been able

to just strike a pretty healthy work -life balance.

It's so are there ways that you think your faith

or sorry that your work has impacted your face

So we talked about you know, how your faith impacts

the way that you do your job But are there ways

that you think your job and the doing of that

has taught you things About God or has shaped

your faith in a particular way Yeah, do you want

to jump in JP? Want me to go first? Actually

for me, it's not a tough one. So the question

is how has work affected my faith? Yeah, so as

I look back over the course of my 30 plus year

career and the last 20 years of my own practice,

And I look back, I can, you know, I see unmistakably,

you know, God's hand at work with just, you know,

guiding me and things that happened, but also

didn't happen. And at the time not understanding

why, and it's not really what I had in mind,

but now in the proverbial fullness of time going,

hmm, okay. And just, you know, in God's provision.

I think back when I launched my practice, starting

from nothing, and just everything fell into place.

Office space, check. Staff, check. IT, marketing

support, website design, check, check, check.

Okay. Well, the other thing, clients? Yeah, yeah,

yeah. They showed up. Yeah. So just, uh, yeah,

just seeing, um, God's provision, um, and, uh,

uh, it's just, yeah, I'm a single to me, just

God's involvement, um, and, uh, his faithfulness.

So I just serve to, you know, I guess, reinforce

my faith and just to make it what's the word,

you know, real. Like, it's just not, you know,

Yeah, God is doing things in your life today.

Right. And just look back in amazement, just

again, things that happened, people that were

brought into my life, sometimes for a very short

season to help me with one thing, others, you

know, for a longer period. But just, you know,

the people I needed at the right time. Yeah.

Yeah. And to remember that, like, God cares about

those details of our lives too, right? It's not

just the spiritual stuff. It's the practical,

like right now. Yes. Excellent point. Yeah. God's

really involved, not just is aware, but cares.

Yeah. And to be with you each step of the way.

And just is, yeah, His goodness, His love, and

that's, you know, prayers are not only heard,

but answered. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

I Guess I'll you know again back to my point

being grateful and gratitude for for my employment,

right? So same idea like yeah, it's You know,

I've been blessed and and I want to carry that

attitude and you know, sometimes I think oh,

you know You know, could I be doing you know,

should I be? You know working in a corporate

big company is that so it's not where God needs

me to be right? Oh wants me to be but then I

think yeah that people here, you know You can

be You know again your authentic self you're

you know a Christian in a in any place that God

puts you and you're working I'm working with

people and I'm you know same as you know, I would

anywhere and Yes, I mean that's you know sort

of jumping off JP's comments there. And other

ways, I was thinking how has, again, even the

organizations I'm a part of, so any charitable

organizations, I'm always moved and continue

to be sensitized to... People less fortunate

and things like that and and working for a big

grocery. It's been tough at the big grocery retailers

for the last, you know You know, there's been

a lot of negative press and that sort of thing

and I followed it very closely and it's it's

Caused me to think about a lot of things But

I mean people not being able to afford their

their groceries is a real thing and you know,

so I have to reflect on my role at one of these

big companies and say Is this something we can

do something about? Is this something we should

do? How do we? I'm not going to go too down that

rabbit hole because there's a lot of stuff in

the media that's nonsense. But anyways, still

it touches me that people can't afford to buy

food, right? So anyways, that's just very specific

to things in my own organization and again any

charitable organizations I've been a part of

that if I'm not necessarily as an accountant

but I do think about you know these kind of things

from the financial lens and yeah yeah yeah yeah

for sure I think like in my own life I've been

fortunate I guess is the right word that most

of my jobs have been in ministry settings for

churches or other sort of faith -based organizations

And so in that way, like, my faith is always

very explicitly sort of part of my job. But when

I think about the, yeah, forensic accounting,

not that I think about that too often, but, you

know, in those worlds or in grocery chains or

whatever it is, like, if there were no Christians

in those spaces, right? Like, how different would

they be? Right, and and maybe it doesn't make

it. Maybe you can't fix corporate culture Maybe

you can't fix the big high -level policies, but

you're impacting the culture of the office space

in which you work right and you're creating a

space there where Something can happen. God can

move in that space by by your presence Yeah,

even if it's not, you know this big massive shit.

Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, and no, I

yeah culture is That's a good way of putting

it for sure, right? Well, I think people in the

workplace, they noticed how you conduct yourself.

And they notice when you do the right thing,

even though it's not going to be rewarded or

applauded. But I think, yeah, people see that,

hmm, and it resonates with them. And it's just,

it's a different, you know, they see it, you

know, okay, you think differently, you're acting

differently, you handle that differently. And

so that's, yeah, I think our impact in the world.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Thank you

both for sitting down and having this conversation.

I think it's been really helpful to get your

perspective on things and when you were both

talking about, you know, why you went into accounting,

you talked about, you know, being a number sort

of person. And I appreciate that God has created

number sort of people in the world to handle

those things so that I don't have to be a number

sort of person. It's not everybody's thing, that's

for sure. No, but it's so good. Yeah, so thank

you both for this conversation. Oh, you're welcome.

Thanks for inviting us. It's been great. And

thank you for tuning in to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. I hope that however God has

shaped you, whether you are a numbers person

or not, that you are able to find God's calling

in the work that you are doing. And we'll see

you again next week.