Grief, Love and Finding Comfort | Trinity Talks Podcast

Good morning everyone and welcome to Trinity

Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is Melissa. And

we are sitting down to talk more about the Beatitudes,

which is this section of the Sermon on the Mount,

so Jesus's most famous sermon or teaching, all

sort of put together. And the Beatitudes start

this off with, blessed are the... Blank and there's

sort of eight statements that fit in there. So

this week we're talking about blessed are those

who mourn for they will be comforted And I started

our podcast last week by talking about this word

Beatitudes and I said at that point I don't actually

know what this word means where it came from

So I went home and did some homework on this

and found out that in fact, yes Beatitudes does

come from a Latin word Beatus Which just means

blessed. Oh So, it all makes sense. So, like,

the blessings. Yes, the blessings. The beatitudes,

the blessings. Oh, that's really cool. And that

makes a lot of sense, too. Yes, it does make

a lot of sense. But I thought, you know, since

I sort of said last week, I don't know, maybe

I should know. Now I know. And now you all know

as well. Yeah, very cool. I think that is really,

really cool. I think sometimes I know definitely

for myself, like seeing those big words, you're

just like, oh my gosh, like this feels a little

intimidating, but it's nice to know that it's

like, oh no, it's just blessings. Very, very

nice. Very, very like. soft vibe. Yeah. Yeah.

Which I think also helps because beatitudes is

like a super churchy word. Yes. Right. And so

it's not we could call it the beatitudes or we

could just call it the blessings. The blessings.

Yes. I really like that. It really focuses in

on, you know, what Jesus is talking about on

the comfort that the beatitudes, the blessings

bring. Yeah. Yes. But. This week we're talking

about blessed are those who mourn which does

not feel very Blessing. Yeah, like if you are

in a state of mourning You're not like whoo.

I am blessed exactly when you're mourning you're

like the last thing on your mind is feeling blessed.

It really does feel like the opposite of a blessing

yes totally um so the bible uses the word mourning

and some people in our culture talk about mourning

but i think like grief is maybe a more common

word or sort of an interchangeable word so i

think yes like like grieving yeah yeah or just

like this sense of loss yeah right So when I

think about what has mourning looked like in

my life, yes, it happens at a moment where I've

experienced the loss of a person if someone sort

of passes on. But I also think the more poignant

or the more impactful states of mourning in my

life have been the loss of... a place or the

loss of like a community. Yes. So like I had

this experience, you know, when I started university

in the same year that I was I had moved away

to go to school, my parents also at the same

time moved provinces. Oh, and so when I went

home, I guess when I went home for Christmas,

they were still in the same place. But when I

went home for like spring break in February,

they were in a totally new house. And there was

a sense of like. I've lost my community that

I grew up in because I've moved away, but also

because like I don't get to go back there in

the same sense. Right. And there was a lot of

like a period of mourning and grief over that,

I think. Yes, I think that's a really, really

good point, because when we think about mourning,

we tend to think about losing a person. Right.

Which is obviously like, you know, it's devastating.

It's very, very painful. But there's so many

other types of mourning as well. Like you said,

like losing a place or I know for myself, when

the when the lockdown happened due to COVID,

I was in my fourth year of university and we

just all, you know, moved home and then, you

know, graduating online and it was like, you

completed this degree and just kind of close

your laptop and just feeling that sense of like,

I feel like I've I lost something that I kind

of envisioned, you know, like getting that degree

and walking across like a stage and I think that's

a really good point you make where mourning isn't

just people. There's a lot of things that it's

very valid to mourn and feel that grief as well.

Yeah and I think mourning is something that we

don't like doing for a lot of reasons. It's not

a comfortable feeling. It confronts us with all

of these like really painful realities and so

I think then in our culture we often try to like

skip it. Somehow or we compartmentalize it. We're

like, especially I think when it's the loss of

a person we think okay So we're gonna have this

like celebration of life or this this funeral

whatever whatever you want to call it and say,

okay So we'll mourn this one day, but then we'll

just like move on and pretend it's not happening.

Right, right That's a really, really good point

because I do feel like in society, you know,

sometimes it's like you don't want to mourn in

public, right? You kind of want to put on that

facade of like, no, it's fine. You know, everything

happens for a reason, which we learned a couple

weeks ago actually is a biblical. And I think

that is a really good point because mourning

is painful. Yeah. and you have to be in a very

vulnerable space to mourn. Yeah, yeah, totally.

So in light of that, Jesus comes and says, those

who are mourning are blessed. And like we talked

about last week, blessed could be translated

as happy, although in this sense, happy and mourning,

they really come head to head. But there's this

greater sense of like, this is the good life.

The good life includes mourning. So, like, what

do you think about that? Like, why might Jesus

say that? You know, I want to be completely honest.

It's something that it's a little bit hard for

me to wrap my mind around. And I totally I think

it's something that no matter where you're on

in your journey with Christ, it's it's hard to

kind of say, yes, you're right. I am living the

good life if I'm mourning. Right. It's it's definitely

the upside down kingdom that Jesus brings is

definitely evident here. I would say though that

I would say that perhaps Jesus says that because

he's acknowledging the fact that mourning is

a part of the human experience. It's something

that we as people, no matter how hard we try,

we can't avoid. Yeah. And I think it's very,

very meaningful that Jesus, you know, does acknowledge

the pain that people are going through, especially

the pain of mourning, of grief, which can feel

so like endless. It can feel all consuming. And

Jesus is kind of saying, I guess he's saying

like, I'm still there. You are still blessed

and God is with you, even in your pain. Yeah,

totally. I think the other thing that comes to

mind for me, so there's This quote that I came

across that's attributed to Queen Elizabeth that

says grief is the price that you pay for love.

So like because we love deeply or we love well,

we will grieve deeply. Right. Are you a Marvel

fan? Kind of. Kind of. Do you know that quote?

It's with Wanda and Vision where this is a spoiler.

Sorry, anyone who's not caught up. But they say

Vision says that what is grief, if not love enduring?

And I think when we kind of look at it that way,

it does add another level to mourning as well.

You mourn the things and the people that you

love. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think then when I pair

those two things together makes a lot of sense

for like why Jesus is concerned about it. Right.

Because Jesus was all about. love and like Jesus

loving us, loving the world and encouraging us

to like go out and love others. And so like what

it makes me think about is that like this this

sense that grief means that we have loved and

it means that we're like actually paying attention

to what's happening in the world. Wow. Right.

Because like I said, we we would rather avoid

grief. But when you stop and you love a person

or a place or just like love the world in general,

you realize there is so much stuff that is broken

in the world. There is so much to grieve over,

whether it is death or the loss of a community

or just like the cons, like abstract concepts

we can grieve over the idea of war existing,

the idea of illness of whether it's physical

or mental, like all broken systems. are things

that we can grieve over because we love the people

who are broken and hurt by these systems. That's

really, really interesting because, you know,

as we know, it's not easy being a Christian.

You really do go through quite a bit of quite

a bit of change as well as you surrender completely

to Jesus. It's hard, but it's always worthwhile.

And I. For me personally, when I came back to

Christ and I was reading the Bible more and praying

more, I guess the situations in the world became

a lot more evident to me as well. I began to

see a lot more pain and suffering and I began

to mourn a lot more for this world as well because

I understood that people are going through really

difficult things and it's because, you know,

sin has entered our world. They don't know Jesus.

Or even if they do know Jesus, yet they're still

suffering due to the consequences of sin entering

our world. And I think as Christians, mourning,

in a sense, is... Mourning the world is kind

of, in a sense, part of the job description and

mourning the brokenness and the pain that people

are unfortunately going through. Yeah. Yeah,

I love that that morning is sort of part of the

job. Yeah, it's just like part of following the

way of Jesus, because actually, if we look at

scripture like Jesus mourns, God grieves over

sin and brokenness in the world. Like there's

this moment in scripture where Jesus is like

walking up to the city of Jerusalem and he mourns

over all that is broken, all for the exploitation,

over this sense that like he knows. there's this

sense like impending doom in some sense, because

he knows, you know, the state of Jerusalem currently

under the Roman Empire and like what is going

to happen as the city falls and all of these

things. Right. Exactly. And I feel that, you

know, Jesus, he mourned over people, you know,

like John the Baptist. However, he also did mourn

over the world, like he said, like Jerusalem.

And I feel that as Christians. We it's also like,

yeah, like it's part of our job to also mourn

the world as well, to mourn all the pain, because

unfortunately, even though there was a lot of

corruption and pain back then, it's still very,

very evident today. And if if we don't mourn

as Christians, then it's kind of like who is

going to mourn? Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, totally.

And I think it allows us another entry point

for like. Preaching the gospel with our words.

or sorry, with our actions, like as well as as

well as our words, I guess. But like people out

there in the world, whether they're Christians

or not, have things that they are mourning. People

are experiencing loss and grief. And so for us

to come alongside them, we can come alongside

them and say, oh, everything happens for a reason.

Oh, God is is doing something bigger through

this. Or we can come alongside them and say,

yeah, this actually does suck. And you know what?

Like, let's let's mourn this together. And ultimately,

yes, find a way through it and hope. But like

people need you in the pain. Yes, I that's really,

really powerful because exactly like there's

people who so many people are mourning and we

ourselves may be mourning as well. And ultimately,

society kind of, you know, we've kind of learned

to kind of like skip over the pain, skip over

the vulnerable parts. And I think it's really

cool that Jesus is saying, you know, blessed

are the morning because He is paying attention.

He's bringing to attention the fact that mourning

is a part of life. It's not something that you're

just going to skip. You know, there's so many

other things that Jesus could have said. And

I do think it's pretty pointed that he did say

no mourning. And it really highlights the fact

that as much as maybe it's hard for people to

remember me or just me, it's hard for me to admit

that mourning and facing that pain is necessary.

But as Christians, we can go to other people

and we can say that we're mourning, too. You

know, I think society sometimes thinks Christians

are, oh, look, they're so happy. Everything is

great. They believe in God and God is blessing

them. And it's like, yes, God is blessing us.

And we're also we experience mourning. We experience

pain. It's part of the human experience. And

God himself experienced mourning, too. So if

God experienced that. we, why should we escape

it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think like

you talked about, you know, people on the outside

looking at Christians and thinking that maybe

they're always happy. I think sometimes we do

that to ourselves too. We think, I need to always

be happy because if I'm sad, it's like a bad

witness. It's like a bad, if I am sad, I'm showing

people, oh, the life of Jesus isn't actually

that great because I'm sad. No, you're just like

living all of life with Jesus, the happy and

the sad. Exactly, exactly. And I think it's,

you know, I think that's something that took

me a long time to understand as well, which is

that you're going to be happy and you're also

going to be sad. However, in all of that, Jesus

is there. He's there for you. He's going to comfort

you. He's going to provide his compassion and

his love as he's always done. So mourning isn't

something you have to avoid. If anything, it's

something that when you openly show mourning

as a Christian. it could bring other people to

you and be like, hey, this is a space that I

feel like is safe for me to mourn and to work

through those emotions and these events. Yeah,

yeah, totally. I think so we've we've talked

about this a little bit and how like the idea

of sin fits into the idea of mourning. But I

guess like there is a spiritual element to this,

right, that sometimes folks will take. the beatitudes

or we'll take this concept of mourning and say

actually what we're mourning is like sin and

therefore it leads us to repentance and I think

that's true. I think there is a very real sense

in which yes I am sad about the personal sins

that I have committed and so therefore it does

lead me to want to change my behavior. But I

think there's also a sense of I'm mourning the

sin in a wider sense. Sin is this word that feels

kind of icky sometimes because we associate it

with me doing bad things. But actually, it's

just a word for the things that are broken in

the world, the things that fall short of God's

hope and dream for the world. Right. And so sin

is not just my thing. It's like, what is broken?

Exactly. And an example that I think of is, you

know, the animals who, you know, when a natural

disaster happens, even man -made disasters, and

those happen because the world is broken, sin

has entered the world. And then I think about

the animals and I think about how they suffer

due to, you know, human action or due to just

things out of their control. And it's like that's,

you know, something to mourn, not even just the

animals, people, children, elderly, everyone.

And it's like we can mourn the fact that Things

happen in the world that are completely out of

our control and they're devastating. And unfortunately,

until, you know, Jesus comes back, it's something

that humans will keep facing. It's, you know,

floods, earthquakes, things like that. Yeah.

Yeah. And and yeah, like I said, it's important

to have a spiritual framework to do that, but

not to sort of over spiritualize it. That's a

good point, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the second

part of this beatitude, Jesus says, blessed are

those who mourn for they will be comforted. And

when I look at that, I'm like, OK, but could

I not just like be comforted without the mourning?

Right. Like that would that would be nicer, wouldn't

it? And also it feels like there's I think this

temptation to say like bad things are good because

you then like get to experience the goodness

out of them. Right? Like, you get the comfort

and you couldn't get the comfort without the

bad thing. Yeah. And there is a logic to that.

That is true. Yeah, I see it. Okay, no, go ahead.

No, I definitely see it. And I think, yeah, like,

you know, that question of like, well, how can

we even feel comfort? You never know that you're

happy unless you've experienced sadness. It's

kind of like that thing, right? However, at the

same time, I still feel like, well, I just...

still don't want to feel the sadness. Yes. I

don't want to feel the mourning. Yes. You know,

I'm I'm sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

I think like we need to be careful that we then

don't say that like the bad stuff is good. Yeah.

Right. The bad stuff, the stuff that is causing

us to mourn is still bad. It's like not not what

we should be doing, not like what God wants for

us. But we still get the comfort. Right. That's

a really good point. And it's kind of we touched

upon it last week as well, where we said, you

know, no one's actively seeking for opportunities

to mourn. Maybe someone is. But I would say for

the majority of us, we're not looking to mourn.

And it's not like we're saying, OK, in order

to receive comfort, I'm going to find something

to mourn. Rather, it's just that. unfortunately

for all human beings, we will all experience

mourning. It's something that is out of our control.

And if it's not mourning a person, it's a place.

If it's not a place and it's just the state of

the world. And I feel that again, the blessings

for me, they always provide so much comfort because

it kind of is Jesus saying that you will experience

mourning and I'm going to still be there for

you. I'm going to come for you and I'm going

to guide you through this. you know, rely on

me. And I feel like that that is really comforting

and it helps me to live life. Yeah, totally.

So what do you think it means to be comforted?

Like, this is the sort of the promise that comes

out of this. Those who mourn will be comforted.

Like, what does that mean? So it means like the

presence of Christ, the presence of God with

us. What else maybe does that mean or look like?

Hmm. I would say. immediately my mind does go

into the presence of Christ. I used to think

that, you know, being comforted or, you know,

God being there for you was God suddenly fixing

everything. Right. You know, it's like, oh, you're

mourning. OK, let me remove that thing, like

remove, you know, bring that back or something.

Right. But I've realized that God doesn't always

work that way. what He does promise is that He

is going to be there. So I do feel like it is

the presence of Christ. In terms of other forms

of comfort, I think it's just, you know, we as

humans, we can also comfort each other as well,

right? And comfort can just be being there for

people, acknowledging that you can't fix the

problem, but you're going to be there with Ears

to listen with a heart that cares compassion

love and kindness Yeah, totally and I think that

is equally God providing comfort God just like

does it through people right like there there

are moments and I have experienced moments in

my life where I'm Alone, there's no other people

there, but I feel a sense of like peace or comfort

that it like is coming from God But equally and

more often, there have been moments where I feel

comfort because another person is providing a

listening ear, is providing practical support,

whatever it is. And that is still God giving

me comfort. It's like doing it in a different

way, I guess. Right. And that's interesting because

I know for me as a person, sometimes whenever

I go through, you know, experiencing something

difficult and I know a lot of people could relate

to this is that You know, we do it alone. We're

like, OK, I'm going to mourn, but I'm going to

do it alone. I don't want to do it in front of

someone. However, when we choose that or when

we kind of, you know, choose to retreat or isolate

in a way, we're choosing not the comfort sometimes.

And as Christians, it is really important to

be in a community. It is really important to

be with other believers. And perhaps, yeah, that

is what Jesus also means by comforted, which

is that if you mourn, you will be comforted by,

you know, the community I've placed you in or

the people I've placed around you. Yeah. And

so I think that comfort looks like different

things at different moments. Like sometimes it

is a listening ear. Sometimes it is just a feeling

within ourselves of peace. But sometimes it's

much more practical, right? In small town communities

and sometimes in other communities, when someone

dies, that family is often surrounded by practical

support. People bringing them meals, people just

showing up and being together and all of these

things, right? That is comfort. Exactly. That's

a really, really good point, too. And I think

that's another way that Christians, we can kind

of show up and show the love of Christ, which

is providing comforts through those practical

means as well. Yeah. The other thing that I was

reading about and sort of reflecting on this

week in terms of comfort is that it's interesting

that what Christ offers us here is comfort and

not like revenge. Because sometimes when we're

mourning, particularly when we're mourning and

we can find a person to blame, we're like, ah,

you or this is the reason that I am sad right

now. Our instinct is not to ask for comfort.

Our instinct is to ask God to smite them. Or

God be like, no, knock them down from their place

of power. But Christ is not offering us revenge.

Christ is offering us comfort. Right. And then

it's like, well, if I took revenge, wouldn't

I feel comforted? Because this is down. And Jesus

is like, no, that's not. No, no. And I think

you raise a really good point, because when you

mourn, there is a lot of anger to it. Totally.

It's part of the process. You know, and I think

we will then find maybe a way to kind of express

or let out that anger. And it's not always going

to be in a healthy way. And I feel like, yeah,

it's like, Jesus is saying that, you know, in

a way, it kind of is like surrendering to Jesus

to say, like, I'm really, really mad that this

happened. I'm really, really mad that this is

broken or that I've lost this. And instead of

seeking, taking things into my own hands, I'm

going to go to you and seek your comfort and

leave this to you, which is hard. Totally. Yeah.

I think there is a place in scripture we see

people praying, God, take them down from their

throne. Like, God, I am mad about this thing.

And like, take them down because they hurt me.

They're the enemy. And so there's a place for

us to ask that of God. But our response... to,

like, God's action should not be dependent on

God answering that prayer in the way that we

think God should answer that prayer. Right? That

Jesus' scripture, the story of scripture, tells

us there is a place for anger. There is a place

for saying, God, this is not fair. But in this

particular instance, what Christ is offering

is comfort. And Christ is saying, this gift of

comfort maybe will come through a person falling

from their throne. Maybe it won't, but Your comfort

does not depend on what happens in the other

person's life. That's a really, really good point.

And I really, I like that because it really kind

of aligns with the, you know, I feel sometimes

when we're angry and we act out on that anger,

whether that's revenge or anything, consequences

do happen. There have been many times where I'm

not in a great mood, I'm upset, and then I act

in a way and later I'm like, that was kind of

mean and I kind of really regret that. It didn't

fit with my values. I don't feel proud to have

done that. Ultimately, when God is telling us

something, he tells us it because it's for our

benefit. He is protecting us. He sees the whole

picture. And sometimes, you know, it's him saying,

hey, choose comfort, choose me, because it can

lead to the less consequences. And you can feel

a little bit better about yourself the next day.

You can feel a little bit prouder of yourself.

It's hard, but it's always worth it to choose

comfort instead of anger or revenge. Yeah, yeah,

totally. So last week we talked about this beatitude

blessed are the poor in spirit for they will

see the kingdom of God This week blessed are

those who mourn for they will be comforted How

do you see the like relationship between those

two things? Well, I feel that you know when you're

going through periods of mourning I would say

you are also poor in spirit. Yeah and so Yeah,

I definitely think they tie into each other,

but I think it's really cool that Jesus is still

saying, you know, kind of like that same message

of like you don't choose the fact that you're

going to be poor in spirit or that you will mourn.

However, through all of those situations, I'm

going to be there. I think throughout all the

Beatitudes that one common denominator is Jesus

and his comfort and his presence and his kingdom.

Yeah, yeah, totally. I think. You're right that

when we are mourning, we are sort of poor in

spirit in that sense of like, yeah, feeling down

and defeated. I also think those who are poor

in spirit have a lot to mourn often. Right. Like

if we think about last week, we talked about,

you know, this connection, poor in spirit is

a spiritual emotional concept, but it is also

a material concept that folks are living in a

poverty of material, like not having enough material

wealth. And when you are in that state, there

is a lot to mourn. Yes. Obviously, as we talked

about last week, God is there. God brings blessing

in that in a way. But there there is a lot that's

like just like beating you down. Yeah. Right.

And a lot that makes you feel really powerless.

Yeah. And so Jesus says when you're in that state

and you are mourning, because I think they they

go hand in hand. I am there. And you are getting

this kingdom of God that we talked about last

week, the sense that God is there, God is doing

a thing right now, and God is giving you a promise

for the future. And so that's the kingdom of

God and comfort and a sense of peace and a sense

of, you know, there's goodness right now that

you're not facing this morning alone. Right.

And I like that you mentioned, you know, not

just the spiritual aspects, but also the physical

aspects of the world as well. Right. Of course,

you know, poor in spirit doesn't necessarily

mean just inside. It can also be material things,

tangible things. Yeah. And oftentimes we will

mourn things that are a little bit maybe less

spiritual, more like tangible things as well,

like of the world, kind of thing. Yeah, mourning

a person, mourning the loss of a home, mourning

the loss of a job, whatever it is. Exactly, yeah.

And I think it's really cool that it's kind of

like no matter where you're at in life, no matter

what you're mourning, no matter what it is, no

matter where you are, Jesus is always going to

find you. He's always going to provide you with

that comfort no matter where you're at. And He's

experienced it, too. And so I think. That's just

something that I always think is so cool is that

God has experienced human pain. He has experienced

mourning and grief and loss. And I just think

that's so cool that He chose to enter a human

body and to experience those things for us. And

so when we go to God, you know, and we say, God,

like, this isn't fair. Like, why is this happening?

We can be assured that His comfort is genuine

because He's out here saying, like, I've been

there. I know how you feel. And I will provide

you with comfort. And perhaps that's something

for us as Christians to do is to say, you know,

take our pain, take our mourning and then use

that to help other people as well. Whether they're

mourning the loss of something physical or spiritual,

emotional, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, totally.

Yeah, I think this has been really helpful to

think through. Yeah, what what morning even looks

like and and and why it's such a part of our

lives, but then also The meaning that can come

out of it again not saying that the morning is

good, right? But that God redeems Yeah, right

that God provides us with what we need in that

moment Even in the midst of a place that like

God would never wish for us to be in exactly

I really I really really like that and you know,

that word, redeem, because sometimes when you're

mourning, when you're going through that pain,

it really feels like it's endless. You really

are like, I don't know how this is ever going

to get better unless that thing comes back. But

God always finds a way. He always finds a way

to redeem. I think it's important as Christians,

though, to take that step too towards God. I

think that when you're mourning, you can maybe

go to God and be like, oh, this is unfair. Please

smite that person on their office chair right

now or something. But I think that in order to

receive that comfort, we also have to take a

step of still acknowledging God in this, whether

that's through anger, sadness, joy, whatever.

Because I've gone through times where I've mourned

and I didn't go to God and I didn't feel that

comfort because I just wanted to handle it all

on my own. And I think Jesus is reminding us

that you will be comforted, but you do have to

come to me. You do have to include me in all

this. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, this has been

really good. Thank you so much, Melissa. Yeah.

And thank you for tuning in to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. I hope that you have experienced

some comfort in our conversation and that whatever

it is that is causing mourning or grief in your

life. I encourage you to find a way to bring

that to God and to trust that God is with you

in it, even if you don't want to be in it. And

we'll see you again next week as we continue

talking about the Beatitudes. See you then.