Belonging & Believing in The Anglican Church | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and I am sitting

down here with Rob and with Jen and we're going

to chat a little bit about this thing that we

do in the Anglican Church called confirmation

or reception and what that is and why it matters.

And actually, I think it's going to be a good

conversation. I think there's lots of cool things

to think about here. But Rob, to get us started,

what is confirmation and reception? Well, you're

actually forgetting there's three. There's confirmation,

reception, and reaffirmation. And so here's the

deal. There are certain kind of rites of passage

in the life of the church that... are led and

specifically led by a bishop. So I'm a priest

in the church. I can do things like baptism and

funerals and weddings and stuff like that. But

bishops have a role to... to do these three other

things. And so we can only do those three things

when the bishop comes to visit. And the bishop

is coming to visit on November 17th. So you're

asking, what are they? One, confirmation. Confirmation

is for people who've been baptized, usually as

infants or as young people. But they've come

to a point in their life where they would like

to kind of now stand up and make their own profession

of faith as someone who's grown up a bit and

someone who can kind of grasp these truths for

themselves. So it's kind of like you're, A grown

up way of saying yes to God, whereas maybe your

parents said yes to God for you when you're baptized

as a little one. So that's kind of maybe that's

I think that's what confirmation is. And actually,

I wrote down a few things. When the bishop lays

his hands on your head during confirmation, this

is what he says. He says, strengthen, O Lord,

your servant with your Holy Spirit. empower them

for your service and sustain them all the days

of their life. Okay. Pretty powerful. Yeah. Holy

spirit stuff. Yeah. Big stuff. Yeah. Reception,

I think probably this is the one that the fewest

people would probably be interested in, but reception

is when you've already been confirmed in some

other tradition, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, United.

What other churches do confirmations? Do Baptists

do confirmations? They don't, but if someone

was baptized as an adult, like if they were 20

-something when they got baptized, then would

they be confirmed or would they be received?

Reaffirmation, maybe? I don't know. That's a

really good question. I think if you were from

a tradition, you were baptized as an adult, the

bishop would probably lay his hands on your head.

And it might be some kind of an amalgam. between

the two. To say like, now I'm choosing the Anglican

church as my sort of church home. Yes. And I've

also never been confirmed. So this is still a

legit confirmation. I'm going to get a confirmation

certificate and all that jazz. So yeah, I would

say that kind of two things would happen. But

the point is, if you have already been confirmed

in another tradition, but you're like, you know,

I want to make my spiritual home in the Anglican

church now, then reception is something the bishop

will do. And I think actually when he receives

someone, he doesn't lay hands on their head.

He actually just kind of. gives them like a kind

of like a handshake of some sort. And he says

this, we recognize you as a member of the one

Holy Catholic and apostolic church. And we receive

you into the fellowship of the Anglican communion.

Okay. Okay. So. The third one that you mentioned,

this is the one actually I'm more excited about

lately. And I think it's partly because I think

this is where maybe Jen's at these days. And

that's reaffirmation. So reaffirmation, let's

say you've been baptized. Let's say you've been

confirmed. But yet something has changed in your

life. God has done something new in your life.

There's a new moment, a new movement. You've,

I don't know, you just, maybe you are away from

church and now you're coming back to church or

you're growing. Something's happened and you

want to, you're like, God, I want to mark this

moment in my life by reaffirming my commitment

to you and to this church. That is what a reaffirmation

is all about. And that might apply actually to

most of the people out there because most of

them have already been baptized and maybe many

of them have been confirmed. So, but reaffirmation

is, hey, at any moment. That God is like stirring

something up in you and say, then let's reaffirm

all that stuff. And when that happens, the bishop

just says, may the Holy Spirit who has begun

a good work in you direct and uphold you in the

service of Christ and his kingdom. Okay. There

you go. Very cool. So where. did these practices

come from? Like, the Anglican Church has a long

history, so these aren't things that we just

made up yesterday. But, yeah, like, what's the

sort of history, the meaning behind them? You

know, I'm not a huge history major, but one thing

I do think is true is that at one point in the

life of the Church, all these things happen together

at once. So if you were going to join the church

and be baptized and then it would all look, it

would all happen at the same time. You would,

you would be baptized and the bishop would lay

his hands on you and you know, you would make

these vows and you would make these commitments

and the church, like it was almost like it was

all one big event. It wasn't broken up like this

before. Sure. But then I think what happened

was, um, We only have three bishops. So bishops

can't be around all the time to do all this stuff

as it pops up in the life of the church. So then

clergy, priests, began to be able to do baptisms,

right? So now we can do baptisms. So anytime

somebody wants to get baptized, boom, boom, boom,

we do it here, just like we baptized Alexis just

last week, right? Um, but that means that now

we've kind of separated these things. So baptism

happens with the priest, but confirmation remained

something that only the bishop could do. So,

so yeah, I think, but I, I just want to read

one piece of scripture and I just want to, cause

I dug this up. So in the book of Acts, this is

very interesting book of Acts. The apostles saw

something happening. They saw that in Samaria,

a lot of people were coming to believe in Jesus.

Right. And they had heard the word of God and

they wanted to follow Jesus. And this was fantastic.

But one thing they said was they hadn't yet.

receive the Holy Spirit. So, for some reason,

they were saying, look, there's this group of

people in Samaria, they want to follow Jesus,

they love Jesus, but there's this, the Holy Spirit

hasn't yet kind of come upon them in a powerful

way. So, what the apostles do is they go up to

Samaria, and then it tells us that then Peter

and John laid their hands on them, and they received

the Holy Spirit. And so I think there is a biblical

idea that the laying on of hands is connected

to the receiving of the Holy Spirit. They had

heard the word. They had already heard that.

They knew how to pray. They had maybe even started

a church. But it wasn't until one of these apostles

came up and laid hands on that the spirit moved.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, very cool. Yeah. So. Jen, you're

sort of here because you're interested in this

process and you've been on a little bit of a

faith journey with your family. So maybe can

you just tell us a little bit about what that

journey has looked like for you so far? Yeah,

thank you for the invitation to come and share.

And yeah, Rob alluded that last week, my daughter,

Alexis, who's nine, she'll be 10 the end of this

year, chose to be baptized and actually just

asked me. well when do i get confirmed so this

was a really good opportunity to learn a little

bit because yeah here's this this scenario but

wow what an inspiration she's been and her story

connects to my story i guess my story goes a

little further back though because um i was baptized

as a baby in the united church and then i was

confirmed and i i remember so is rob speaking

about the words sustain you for all the days

of your life. It almost came back with a, like

an embodied feeling of when the hands were laid

on me and this, this piece, I kind of remember

the feeling of like being at the, the eye at

the center of a storm, a peaceful experience

when I was confirmed. And yet then shortly thereafter,

that kind of paused my journey. My family pulled

away from the church. I was now a teenager. And

Saturday nights were really exciting and there

was no getting up early Sunday mornings for many

years. And I was committed to my studies and

life just kept going. And then I was in Asia

and being exposed to other faiths and seeking.

And enter life back in Canada and as a parent

in the community here in Streetsville. And Camp

Trinity spoke to our family. There were lots

of kids from my children's school. that just

raved about Camp Trinity. And so we decided to

enroll our children. I want to say three or four

summers ago. I've kind of lost track of the time.

And Alexis came home and she said, Mom, Dad,

there's a family day. We're going to Trinity.

And so as a family, it was a first that we stepped

through the doors into Trinity and were received

where. it felt similar to that embodied experience

back in the past. But yet Alexis led our family

very much through her requests towards wanting

to eventually be baptized. And through that process,

it made me reflect on my own journey and where

we as a family were at, where I was at, and we

were at such very different places. And so...

I decided then to enroll in Alpha and attend

church. And I remember originally speaking to

Rob, and he invited us to consider an earlier

baptism. And I almost said, I remember saying

to Rob, well, I'll go through Alpha. We'll have

Alexis go through and explore Camp Trinity again

and just take this at pace. Yeah, take it slow,

one step at a time. And that gave us a chance

as a family to... to explore and experience,

and just not rush into this, but really just

steward her and explore for us. And so we came

upon then Alexis being baptized, and I remember

meeting with Rob and saying to him, this is about

her, it's her day, but there's something here,

Rob, for me too. In this point in life, and it

is, I'm mid -age, I'm transforming, I'm changing

careers. You talk about big moments, my father

passed, you know, lots of things that have just

kind of cracked open where I'm at to recenter

on my faith and choose faith over fear in many

ways. And so this is where Rob said, well, there's

an opportunity coming up. And that was such a

gift to hear that I could look at being received

and reaffirmed. Received first because now my

daughter has joined the Anglican faith, and I

would like to join the same family and be in

the same family as her. And second, reaffirmed

because it's at a point in time, as Rob said,

where I'm ready. I'm ready to rededicate. I reread

what discipleship meant. Especially here at Trinity,

I remember receiving kind of a certificate that

says, what does it mean to you? And the words,

I've kind of kept them very alive in terms of,

do I commit to practice? Do I commit to my own

spirituality and my own? Right. And I keep coming

back to, yes, I do. So now's the time. Yeah.

And so I'm really grateful. And it's almost,

well, I will say divine timing that here was

my daughter being baptized in September. And

then the opportunity, which I hear is quite a

rarity. We don't have many. Yeah. They come to,

to offer these experiences. So, um, yeah, I'm

looking forward, I believe November 17th is the

day to be received and reaffirmed. Yeah. Yeah.

No, that's so cool. Like I think about like,

there's a lot of examples in scripture of like

the importance that Jesus places on children.

Um, and, and there's even this verse in Isaiah

that talks about, you know, in the future, a

little child will lead them, you know? And so

there's, there's that very real sense in your

life right now that, that a child is, is leading

you back to your faith, leading you back to Christ.

And that's, that's. And inviting my husband and

my son and our in -laws and others around her

and her neighborhood friend who came and witnessed

her. But she's just is leading. And I can't I'm

so inspired by. Yeah. By her path. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you for naming that. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's

awesome. So what do you think makes this particular

moment the right moment for you to to step into

this next? Well, as I was sharing, I think the

opportunity of having this at the time when Alexis

was coming on this journey, being able to then

also be received and join her and have her baptism

be her celebration, but this be my receiving

and reaffirmation. So I think timing's everything

as to why now. But a little bit more personal

would be I'm in a lot of transitions in my life.

Choosing faith, choosing faith over fear as I

walk my path and hold myself. And I think now

is the particular time where receiving and coming

back to my faith and giving and receiving into

community, into my relationship with Jesus, my

relationship with God, my relationship with my

family. It's just all so important. And one thing

I will say is when we came after, The Camp Trinity

experience, one of the sermons that Rob delivered

was on a study, a longitudinal study on human

development out of Harvard University. Robert,

Robert, anyway, the whole premise of the book,

he was speaking and I said over to my husband,

I just read this book. I just read about this

book. And the bottom line, the basis of the book,

after 80 years of studying human development

and. What made people thrive and hunt in their

lives was relationships. Right. And so here I

was at a place looking for my relationship to

Jesus, my relationship to God, my relationships,

my family, my relationships and career, so on

and so forth, and really taking hold. Been my

ancestral lineages. We're exploring right now

and having relationships in other ways. Yeah.

Thank you. You know, as we're talking, I'm struck

by the fact that it's at moments like this in.

the life of our church that we, we actually start

talking about our denomination, right? Like most

Sundays you would come to Trinity. You would

never hear the word Anglican, right? You would,

there would be, I mean, I think Trinity is probably

part of the Anglican family and, and for sure.

But it's, it's just, it's only when. we talk

about bishops and confirmation and stuff like

that, that we have to start talking about Anglican

identity. Right. Because, and so I actually kind

of curious about that with you, Jen, like, like,

cause on the one hand you started the journey

with like alpha and alpha isn't about being an

Anglican. It's about following Jesus. And actually

that's what Trinity is so much about too. Like

we don't wave our Anglican denominational flag

very hard here at all. So I'm just curious, like

where is there a real strong pull to the to the

Anglican style or or is it really just about

I want to mark this moment and this is a way

to do it? I don't know. That's such a good question,

Robin. I have so many different places coming

up where I could speak to. So maybe I'll just

name a few. And first and foremost, I think Trinity.

Trinity as a church, as a congregation, was an

experience that my children, my family had. So

I start with this community, this congregation

specifically. But I mentioned we'd been on some

pilgrimages. I was speaking with Kyla around

my own ancestral lines, and my husband and father

are on a little bit of a pilgrimage right now

with their grandmother. And both sides have come

where we actually have started to unravel and

learn. a lot about our lineages that we didn't

know. We both come from the Church of England,

all of our ancestors do, on both sides. And so

that felt right as well, as we're looking at

Alexis in terms of receiving from her ancestral

lineages. And so much so that even on my family's

side, on my maternal lineage side, my mother

pulled out her great -grandmother's Bible 1880,

I want to say, and gifted that to Alexis last

weekend. And on the front of the Bible was the

British International Society. And as the story

goes, it's quite a sad story. But that woman,

my great -great -grandmother, Alexis's great

-great -great -grandmother, died after giving

childbirth. But in that Bible was a lock of her

hair and also a little note about seeding her

lambs. And so here's this woman who had the will

to. to pay forward her spiritual path. And so

here's Alexis now. Yeah. After a lot of receiving

a piece of that and a lot of, you know, time

removed coming back to Anglican. So it has, so

this, this moment has line. It has, you've found

some connections historically with this, this

church. It's not how it started, but that's just

kind of this happy, you know, God coincidence

thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting

to hear. Like, cause I think about, like my own

journey into some form of Anglicanism anyway,

right? Because I grew up in Baptist churches.

My family just is Baptist. There's a history

of that. And so one of the things that that has

been instilled in me is actually a value. like

that I value the local church really highly.

And so when I was looking for a church in Mississauga,

I wasn't looking for a church based on any denomination.

I was looking for a local church where I felt

like I could fit. And Trinity became that. But

I think the longer that I've been here and the

more I've sort of reflected on Anglicanism, the

more I can see like that I really value. liturgical

systems that I value a church year that even

though Trinity doesn't follow it perfectly like

it exists we do have a church calendar a set

of seasons there are particular services that

just instill in me this rhythm and also yeah

just a sense of Not everything about being connected

to a history and to an ancient path is always

good, but I think that there are good things

about it. I think having a system of bishops

and priests who all learn together and hold each

other accountable and lean into the way of Jesus

together, I think, is valuable. There's one other

offering I'll give that came up. This also had

me look into, well, what is the United Church?

That's where I was baptized. That's where I was

confirmed. It's the history. It's a Canadian

story. It's a Canadian -born church. So the history

there is 100 years old. 1925, I believe, was

the... um start of the united church in canada

as far as i know sure yeah but if we think of

the globalized world and anglicanism across the

span of yeah the world it's a really large global

community as well so as we join within trinity

which speaks to our family and our experience

here and then you expand out there's a sense

of connectedness yeah And in a larger sense,

too, that really that's appealing to you. That's

appealing to to me, too. Yeah. Alexis doesn't

see that lens, but I do. Yeah. And, you know,

her grandmother was even mentioning last week

that she was considering getting her dual citizenship

back in the UK. OK. In Britain. So in that case.

It just, it meant. Yeah, there's that global

connection. Yeah, for sure. So, Jen, as you are

preparing for this next step, what are you hoping

for as you take this step into reaffirmation?

Well, I come back to this, you know, what am

I hoping for? I think I'm hoping for maybe the.

The word sustain, when I was confirmed, it was

sustained on the days of my life. But as I look

to be reaffirmed and I understand, receive the

hands and the Spirit, the Holy Spirit through

the transmission, that's where I believe faith

will prevail. Sure. If you hold faith and fear

as this polarity, we walk within choosing faith

in an embodied way that's witnessed, that's held

not just something that's... internal or personal

which probably would have been more less my last

white that's a a hope would probably be to have

a similar embodied experience that i had when

i was confirmed yeah yeah because that has sustained

me in many ways yeah yeah and sustained me all

the days of my life is yeah there's something

real that happens whether it's in these big sort

of public moments or even just sometimes in quieter

moments like when you have that visceral experience

of God, it does become a nourishing, sustaining

thing that when I'm then later in those moments

of like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't

know what I'm feeling. I can go back and be like,

no, I know God is real because I felt God then.

Maybe I don't feel God today, but I felt God

then. Yeah. And it does. It becomes a sustaining

moment for sure. Yeah. So as you're thinking

about this, obviously we're really excited that

you are stepping into reaffirmation and we're

hopeful that there will be other folks who will

do that as well. So if there's other folks who

are thinking about this, who are thinking, I

don't know, maybe confirmation, maybe reception

or reaffirmation, like what would be your advice

or your wisdom to them? Well, one piece to say

is that we heard that these opportunities don't

necessarily come available to us locally in our

own community here at Trinity very often. So

if you're sensing that these experiences may

be possible for you, now's a good time because

it's available and Rob's created the opportunity

for us to receive these gifts now. I would say

on a more personal level, is to consider where

the dedication, the discipleship that you're

at, where you're at in your own journey, and

what receiving the Holy Spirit could do for you

and to you and through you and as you and by

you as you continue having the... Yeah, the impact

through relationships in your lives. I would

say that's what comes up when asked, maybe a

little wordy. No, no, no, no, that's great. Yeah,

it's really, it's a very personal moment that

happens in a very public setting. So that there's

a bit of attention there sometimes, I think.

But it is, yeah, something that I think Christ

could be calling lots of folks to in some moment,

just to take another step. Yeah, I mean, those

are the moments we remember in life, right? Moments

where we stood up, where we did something that

maybe pushed us out of our comfort zone a little

bit, to be in front of all these people, to make

a statement of faith, to declare something. Like,

yeah, that's going to stick with you for a long

time and maybe forever. It'll be one of those

memories that you always carry with you about

a turning point in your own faith. Yeah. It's,

it's, it's worth thinking long and hard. Like,

Hey, is this an opportunity for me to have that

moment? Yeah. Right. Yeah, totally. And so Rob,

if someone is thinking that maybe this is their

moment, they want to maybe talk more about it

or they're, they're ready to say, let's do this.

What should they do next? Yeah. Well, I think.

Maybe that first step is just discernment to

do some of the work that Jen has been doing just

to think, yeah, is God calling me to this step

right now? And to prayerfully think about that.

I think I want to say right with that again,

that there is certainly no pressure and no expectation

that you. that anyone participate in this. Uh,

and it's not like by participating in it, somehow

you enter an inner circle here at the church

and now you're, you're more included or you belong

more or something like that. Like that's not

what it's about. Trinity. We are a group of ordinary

people just learning to follow Jesus in our own

day. Full stop. That's who we are. Um, so, so

yes, this decision to, to do something that's

a bit more formal and a bit more connected to

our Anglican identity. Yeah. Pray about that.

Think about that is yeah. Um, So certainly I

would want to let me know that that's something

that you're thinking about. And there's a number

of ways they can do that. They can actually go

to our events page and they can just click on

the link that says confirmation, reception, reaffirmation.

You can choose which one you're interested in.

We'll follow up with you. And then following

that, there will be some form of preparation

that is going to be offered for each of these

things. We haven't kind of got that all laid

out just yet. I know some churches would have

like months of catechesis before confirmation.

That's not going to be what it's going to look

like at least this time around. But we do want

to make sure that people have a chance to think

about what's going to happen, to get a little

bit of... Yeah, just a little bit of training

and teaching so that the moment can be all that

it can be. Sure. Then, yeah, I would circle November

19th on your calendar. Continue to participate

in the life of this church because that's how

we continue to grow. Yeah, I think it's as simple

as that. It's as easy as that. Yeah. Okay. Great.

Thank you so much. Enjoying me. Yeah. Yes, please.

I welcome all to Jordan. Yeah. And I should say,

too, like I'm there is somehow a bit of a thinking

that, oh, confirmation is for kids who when they're

turning 12 or 13, like it's like this thing that

happens to that age group at that time. Right.

And that certainly is not the case right there.

Like, I'm so glad, actually, that Jen is stepping

forward in this moment because this is for everyone.

It's an opportunity for everyone, depending on

where they're at. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well,

thank you both so much. This has been a really

helpful conversation to sort of clarify some

things about what it is that we're talking about

here, but then also a really hopeful conversation,

I think, to sort of see what is God doing in

the life of this church? What is God doing in

your life, Jen? Yeah, and how we all get to...

participate in that as a church family and as

individuals who are also being called by Christ.

Yeah. So thank you for tuning in to this week's

episode of Trinity Talks, and we will see you

next week.