From Fire to Forgiveness | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and I am really

excited to be sitting down with a couple of folks

who are members here at Trinity and have a really

interesting, really fun story to tell about the

history of this church. So thank you for joining

me. Thanks, Kyla. Yeah. Maybe we'll start with

an introduction. Do you want to introduce yourself?

Oh, I'm Diane Toyson, and my husband and Dave

and I have been coming to Trinity for 38 years.

Okay. Wow. That's a long time. Yeah. Well, yeah.

And go ahead. So I'm Wally Vogel. My wife, Jane,

and I have been coming for 36 years. Okay. When

we came, we were basically newlywed 20 -somethings,

and we're grandparents now. Okay. So that gives

you some idea of the arc of our timeline. Yeah.

A long time. Yeah. So we're going to zoom in

on a little bit of Trinity's history here. As

Rob said in our service, the church is 120 or

more years old. We're going to zoom in on the

past 30 or so years. So in 1998, there was a

fire here at Trinity that burned the whole building

to the ground. But before that, there was actually

some other changes that were taking place. So

can you take us back to 1998, 1997? What was

happening in the life of the church then? Well,

Harold Percy was our rector at the time, and

things were really going strong. Lots of people

coming. We had two services at the time, 9, 15,

and 11, and they were getting really packed.

Not much room, and so we wanted to make room

for more new people to join us. So we got space

at the Hazel McCallion School at Gymnasium and

started having a 10 o 'clock service there. Okay.

And there were maybe 40 people that were over

there, and our music director, John McDonald,

would shuttle back and forth between the services.

cover the music. Okay. And it was really an exciting

time. Sure. We ended up calling it St. Hazel's.

Okay. Very cool. And so what was happening here

at the building during that time? So we were

looking for ways to expand because while the

school was a good satellite congregation, you

know, really people were tending to come in through

the front doors here, spotting us on Queen Street.

So we were really looking for a way to expand.

The very first plan was to build, you know, a

lovely church right here. house everybody. But

the obstacles were we didn't have the budget.

We didn't have the parking. And we would have

trouble getting some of the city permits. So

with all those obstacles in our way, that project

wasn't able to move forward. So we were really

looking for alternatives. And we looked at everything.

We were looking at leasing some industrial space

up the street and what have you. So we were looking

at all kinds of alternatives. And then I'll tell

a little bit of a story. I'll try and tell it

quickly. I remember I was at one of the last

board meetings, probably 1997. And I was like

a junior assistant warden, whatever. I was one

of the new kids on the board. And we were talking

about the building and saying, oh, we can't do

anything for five years. We don't have the money.

We don't have the parking and so on and so forth.

And in my youthful exuberance, I was a little

frustrated. I said, we must be able to do something.

And then Harold called me up the next morning.

Went, yeah, well, you don't know what you're

talking about. And then the next morning, Harold

called me up and he said, listen, what you said

last night, let's get together and talk. And

he actually had a bit of a dream that told him

that, you know, you kind of have to step out

before things will happen. met at the time that

keg was up the street we met there and had lunch

and we're writing down well what if we raised

this much from the diocese what if we did this

did this yeah and uh and uh diane was there at

lunch too and she came by at our table and said

what are you guys talking about and harold picked

up the napkin he said we just built a church

Okay. So that was the beginning of the construction

project. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So we

also have a few photos to share to sort of help

us tell this story a little bit. So the first

picture we have is the original church building

back in 1893. So obviously none of us were around

to see this. But yeah, just this really... A

very basic sort of building that, you know, has

the big brick steeple, very similar to our steeple

today, but just a long sort of worship space.

And then we have a picture of the building in

1962. And so you can see that there was an expansion

built on the side of the building. So what was

in that expansion space? Well, that was called

the Education Center, sort of. There was a middle

hall. Yeah. It was sort of a meeting area, and

then there was a parish hall on the upper level

over on the extension. And then underneath, we

had Sunday school space, office space. We had

a nursery school that was running. Ida Dundas

was the director of that. So that was quite a

going concern. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you had lots

of space for all this other stuff, but it was

the worship space that was sort of, that was

a bit of the constraint. And so then we have

a picture of construction that had started in

1997. Yeah, so you can see, obviously, the sanctuary

is no longer there. Just a big empty space there

as the church is expanding and getting ready

to grow. and so what was the sort of hope or

vision there like was it it was a growing church

at that point absolutely we were growing quickly

we had lots of young families i remember when

we were raising the the money to do the uh construction

yeah We rolled a cement mixer, so we were meeting

in the schools at St. Hazel's, and we rolled

a cement mixer up the middle, and people were

to put their commitments for the building fund

in an envelope, throwing it in the cement mixer.

And the kids were dancing behind, there was music,

and the kids were dancing, and it was marched

up. We raised the commitments for everything

that we needed, which was just amazing. I mean,

God was so good to us because we needed parking.

For example, we were trying to figure that one

out. That was one of the toughest problems. And

then just before our annual vestry, the lot across

the street came up for sale. And we were able

to very quickly put together an offer. And I

think it was, I want to say it was within 30

days we had acquired that parking from when it

went. So that same parking lot that we use now.

Yeah. parking lot that we have across the street

at the time there was a salon in the front of

course because this is streetsville yeah yep

very cool that became a police station became

a police station for a while okay interesting

lots lots of different things happening there

and we still had our offices underneath the old

parish hall area okay still meeting there yeah

yeah okay So then, April 26th, 1998 hits, and

we have this very dramatic photograph of the

church fire. And we have these history books

of the church, and this image of the steeple

on fire. roof. You can't even see it there anymore.

And I've been told that the kids will walk by

and see these little books and are all very intrigued

by this particular photograph because they want

to know the story of what happened. And so I'm

wondering if you folks can take us back to that

day, April 26, 1998. Where were you? How did

you hear about this? What was your sort of reaction

to that? Do you want to start, Wally? Sure. I

remember it distinctly. It was a Saturday night.

Jane and I were going out for dinner. And I said,

before dinner, can we swing by the church and

check on the construction? Because it was something

that we just kind of did every day. And we came

by here and checked on it to see how it was.

And everything was in pretty good shape. And

then we went out to dinner. And we got home and

went to sleep. And around, I'm going to say it

was close to midnight, the phone rang. And it

was Diane that called me. And she said, Wally,

there's a fire at the church. I didn't ask any

question. I just said, I'll be there in five

minutes. I hung up and got dressed very quickly.

And as I'm getting dressed, I'm praying, caught

small fire, small fire. I get out in my driveway.

I live south of Eglinton here. I got in my driveway.

I could already smell the smoke. By the time

I turned on to Mississauga Road, I could see

the flames. Wow. You told me you'd gone in the

building. Yeah, we had gone in the building on

the Saturday. The day before. A few hours before.

Yeah, they had just completed the roof, and I

saw the rolls of tar paper. I stepped over them,

actually, to come in. And it was those rolls

of tar paper that the young man set aflame later

that night. Wow. And the stained glass window.

that we have now in there used to be over the

altar and it had been taken out and stored. And

because we were getting close to finishing the

construction, the, the crate, whatever, holding

the stained glass window had been brought back

in and it was laying on the floor of the, of

the church. And well, there's a story in that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we can see the picture there.

You can see the, So it was in a wooden or cardboard

crate of some kind. Yeah, so all of the wood

around the windows is completely charred. The

window itself is quite black. It's hard to see

through. But this is the same window that now

sits in our sanctuary. That's right. And it was

restored with funds from the Bread and Honey

Festival in memory of Sam McCallion, who was

the chairman or convener of that event. So now

it's in our new building, which is lovely. I

think it was restored. There was a company down

the street here. Yeah, it was called Red Hill

Art Glass. It's where there's a coffee shop now.

And they restored it. That's right. And it's

hard to really describe how miraculous it is

that that stained glass survived. I mean, there

were steel beams that were... twisted and warped

and fallen from the heat there like yeah it was

an incredible fire as you saw from the picture

and right in the middle of it was this stained

glass window yeah and yet it was at least it

wasn't undamaged but it was restorable yeah yeah

very cool i heard about the fire harold called

me what dave and i had been out to a play or

some some kind of event and had gotten home and

had received the call and so we Quickly drove

over here, parked at Tim Hortons, and I remember

running down the street to get down here to the

parking lot. And we stood out in the parking

lot watching the firemen work on the building.

Yeah. Something. Yeah. It's amazing. I was working

on the staff at the church. Okay. I was director

of programming and parish life. And I did that

for 24 years. And so I was pretty much involved

in things right here. Had my office downstairs

and everything was going. Yeah. Yeah. So then

what was it like being part of this congregation

in the weeks and the months after that fire?

I'm sure there's a lot of sense of grief and

loss. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the. Nice things

was that parishioners Ross and Davis Mitchell

invited our staff to come over to their house

and set up our offices in their basement. So

we were there for several weeks, I think, until

we looked and found a warehouse on Century Avenue

up by Argentina, and we were able to rent that.

big open warehouse, and I worked on a floor plan

of designing the different spaces that we could

set up in there for offices and some meeting

rooms. There was a little kitchenette and washroom

and stuff, so we could have our 8 o 'clock traditional

worship service there. In the warehouse. Yeah,

in meeting rooms there. And we had our offices

there, and we could have meetings and midweek

kind of things. And then we still worshipped

at St. Hazel's. Yes. And everybody moved there.

Yeah. And then we had at least one service at

Meadowvale Theater. Okay. I think an Easter service.

Sure. Do you remember anything else? I just think

it's worth mentioning, you mentioned Ross and

Davis Mitchell. Ross Mitchell, who unfortunately

is no longer with us. He passed away a few years

ago. But Ross was just such an integral part

of all this. Harold and I designed the church

on a napkin. It wouldn't have gotten much further

than that if we hadn't asked Ross to be the head

of the building committee. Ross was absolutely

a force to be reckoned with, and he made sure

through the first building project, through the

fire, through the second building project. I

remember Ross saying to me one time, he and I

were both entrepreneurs and had our own business.

He said, it's a good thing we have our own business

because if we worked for anybody else, we would

have been fired for all the time we're spending

in the church. Sure, sure. Yeah. There's one

more photo I want to share of the church itself.

So obviously there was a lot of damage done to

the church, but then not there. The bell tower,

I think, was not entirely damaged. Is that right?

Oh, yeah, it was. It was destroyed. OK, OK. The

fire was set underneath. Right. OK. It was like

a chimney. After the fire, what was left here.

So, you know, I had the unfortunate distinction

of maybe being the only warden to sign two demolition

orders for the church. The first demolition order

was partial demolition. Sure. To prepare for

the renovations. Yeah. The second one was complete

demolition. Right. This place we're sitting in

was literally just a hole in the ground for about

a year. Yeah. While we tried to settle up the

insurance claim. So you can see in the image

there that they're clearing away all of the bricks.

There's really not much left there. There was

literally nothing. We preserved some of the brick,

which has been used downstairs and behind the

altar. Yeah. But no, there's nothing. I can see

there's nothing left of the original structure.

Yeah. It was literally just dug out and we started

from scratch. Yeah. And then another picture

from the newspaper that I want to share with

you folks, because you are actually featured

in this picture. So at the top there, we have

Wally and Diane, along with Harold Percy, who

was the minister at the time, and Hazel McCallion,

who is, of course, famous mayor of Mississauga,

but also a member of this church. Yeah, all just...

And Ross Mitchell. Okay, and Ross Mitchell as

well. Okay, yeah, that we were just talking about.

And I can remember standing outside when they

removed the old bell from the tower. That's what's

happening there. Yes. The bottom picture. And

that bell is out in the lobby right now. Yes,

yeah. And then you see the sign out in front.

Right. It talked about we had rising from the

ashes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, very cool. And so the

sub headline of this was that it was a team who

started this fire. But then there's actually

quite an amazing story that comes along with

that. So do you want to share a little bit about

how this team became sort of a little bit of

part of Trinity's life for a little while anyway?

Yeah. So, yeah, there were three young men that

came into the church, and one of them started

the fire. One of the other ones, I guess, you

know, was apprehended and gave his name. So it

was fairly quickly that... You know, the young

man that started the fire was apprehended. My

recollection is he was 17. Yeah. Yes. And so

actually, Harold and Diane and I were invited

to the courthouse when he was being tried. And

the judge asked Harold to recommend, you know,

sentencing. He said, you know, by default, this

young man would go to prison. Right. And, you

know, what would you like? And I think, Harold,

you said sought some advice, I think, from somebody

for that. Lou Smedes was a famous professor at

Fuller Seminary. And he wrote some books. And

Dave connected Harold with Lou Smedes. And he

made some recommendations of how to. make it

a more healing process for everyone. And so he

was, the sentence was that he was to do, set

up and take down chairs at 200 community hours,

and that was part of taking up and setting up

chairs at the school. He used to do some lawn

work here at the church. He was to give 10 %

of his part -time job money, and he was to make

an apology, a public apology to the congregation.

And that was an amazing experience. We were over

at the school and packed an auditorium there,

and he and his mother came, and he got up and

made an apology. it's written out in one of the

books we've got out on display. And it was really

an emotional experience for everyone, but it

was a very healing experience for the congregation

too. Yeah. It was known as a service of forgiveness

and, and it was really important for us to go

through that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's

really neat to sort of think about that from

the lens of, what it means to be a church, what

it means to be a follower of Jesus, right? Because,

so like you said, the sort of default sentence

would have been prison, which is a space of isolation,

right? It's a space where we take people to get

them out of our community. But instead, what

the church was able to offer was... community

and integration, right? And yes, sort of community

service hours, there was some hard work that

was involved in that. But community service in

the context of community, in the context of being

part of this church family, yeah, I think that

must have felt, I'm sure there's a lot of emotions

wrapped up in that. Yeah, a lot of tears. Yeah,

for sure. For sure. But I think it was, it was,

and, you know, I'll credit Harold for this. It

was sort of a model of how to deal, if you've

been wronged, how do you deal with it? And I

think forgiving is more important maybe for the

victim than the perpetrator, right? Because you

have to learn to let go of it. The other thing

was, I mean, I think that was maybe the most

covered church service in Mississauga. We had

news. News vans out for that apology service.

And it showed the community what was going on.

And the community rallied around the church in

an incredible way. Hazel did a fundraiser up

at the Delta Hotel and raised money from the

community. People were just showing up with donations.

Other churches that had experienced fires were

sending donations. It was incredibly affirming

just to feel the support of the community. Sure.

That's a big part of how I think we built some

connections into the community at the time while

we didn't have a building. Yeah, yeah. And another

interesting thing is that we had a connection

with St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church down the

street from us. Okay, yes. Where Doug McQuay

was the pastor there. And we were... permitted

to have some services there. They could use it

for weddings or funerals, and we had our annual

lamb dinner there one year. And now we have Doug,

and when Doug retired, he and his wife Liz started

coming to Trinity. And his son, Scott McQuade,

is a drummer and looks after the sound and lighting.

And his wife is Libby McGrath, who is our music

leader and worship leader. So it's amazing to

still have that connection. Lots of family connections,

community connections, all these things. Yeah,

very cool. Yeah. So now we're moving along in

the story towards rebuilding. And we have one

last photo to share of the rebuilding the bell

tower at the church. And you can sort of see

at the bottom there, reopening spring of 2000.

So there's this real new momentum, new process

underway. So what was that rebuilding process

like? How did that get started? What was involved

in that? And there were some limitations before.

So were there still limitations? Well, that was

a really interesting time because we did actually

see an opportunity coming out of the fire in

that before. As you saw, there was the old church

building, the middle hall built in 1930, the

parish hall built in 1962, and a big empty courtyard

in the middle. Right. So we couldn't, because

of some restrictions, we couldn't just, we had

to work within that kind of footprint of the

building. But after the fire and we had a hole

in the ground, well, now we said, okay, now we

can recapture that space because it would be

more economical to just build a big envelope,

which is what we have now, just basically a big

rectangle over the whole space. So we actually

ended up picking up a lot of usable space in

the new configuration. The problem with that

was, and I remember distinctly because we had

a meeting down at St. Andrews and Doug McQuaid

was kind enough to allow us to meet there. And

we were going to present the new plans. And I

talked to the insurance company and, you know,

they said, don't worry, we're going to cover

you for replacement costs. And so we went down

there to unveil the new plans and get everyone

excited about the building. And like literally

hours before the meeting, I got a call from the

insurance company and they said, yeah, so here's

the number you're going to get. I'm going to

say it was something like 500 ,000. I'm like,

no, we need 1 .5 million. And I remember going

into that meeting, just I've never. prayed so

hard in my life as going in front of the congregation

to say, yeah, we can't rebuild right now. And

we sat with that hole in the ground for a full

year while we tried to work out the insurance.

Eventually we did. I'm pleased to report that

we got, my recollection is 1 .8 million by the

time we were done, because when we had to go

through, we actually found other items that were,

you know, should have been covered by insurance.

Sure. So ultimately that all got settled and

that's when we were able to start rebuilding

again. Okay. But it was, it was quite a time.

I'll tell just one other story really quick.

And while this was all happening, Hurricane Mitch

hit in the Honduras. Okay. And it was devastation.

And Dave was head of World Vision at the time

and brought it to the attention of the board

and said, you know, could Trinity do something?

And I know we're doing great things now in Nueva

Frontera, but our first, you know, forage into

Honduras was then. And I remember being in a

board meeting and it came up and we said, okay,

you know, what can the church do to help? help

the victims of the hurricane. And somebody said,

oh, you know what? It's not the time. We're trying

to rebuild the church. We don't have the insurance.

And somebody else on the board said, well, you

know what? These people were hit with a storm

and they're homeless. And we're homeless. We

should understand what they're going through.

And this is the time for us to step up. And we

did. And I was really encouraged at how the church

supported that and reached out. And that became

a big project. We built a computer training center

that hundreds of people were able to get jobs

as a result of that. So there was a lot. And

we built. I think a school, right? A small school

room. We went down and visited in Honduras. Yeah,

there were several trips that went down. So it

was, again, something good. You know, this is

the amazing thing. I mean, you know, God, we

go through terrible things in our life sometimes,

right? It's a tough world. But God can redeem

things in wonderful and unexpected ways. Yeah,

totally. It was great. Diane, when you think

about that rebuilding time, how did you see God

at work? It was certainly a sense of community

working together, supporting one another and

being behind that. And just seeing it all come

together was just amazing. And still new people

were coming to the church, even though we were

meeting over at St. Hazel's. It was still growing.

And so the grand opening that weekend, we had...

big event for the community and tours of the

building and out in the parking lot. And we all

set up with refreshments and stuff and just a

lot of excitement about coming together and how

we were able to reach out to a lot of people.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like one

of the things that sort of stands out to me in

this whole bringing all the pieces together is

just the way that Trinity was able to be a witness,

a presence in this community of what it means

to go through really hard things, to lose everything

as a church, but to remain faithful. Yeah. We

had the bread and hunting parade. Yeah. Always

a big deal at Trinity. This week's congregation

would sit out. front of the church sure and watch

them watch the parade go by and hazel was always

trooping along in front in front of it and we

had a big banner that we had in the parade that

one year that said rising from the ashes and

a big uh float that we had with a band and people

on it and everything and so it was it was really

a a wonderful witness to the community yeah yeah

Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I also just go back to

that story of bringing this youth into the community

of, yeah, doing the hard work of love in the

midst of the hard stuff of life. So when you

reflect on the past 25 years now that this building

has been open, yeah, what stands out to you?

How have you seen Trinity grow? How have you

seen God at work in the last? 25 or so years.

Do you want to start us off, Wally? Sure. So

I think we've been through our ups and downs.

Time won't permit to describe all of them, but

let's just say there was a bit of a roller coaster.

Certainly moving into the new building was a

high, but there were lows that came along the

way. But I think what I've seen, particularly

in the last few years, is just how God has blessed

the church with... people coming from different

backgrounds, different ages, a lot more young

families and kids that we see. And just the energy

in the community. Trinity has always been, like

throughout the highs and lows, Trinity has always

had this very strong sense of community and just

support for one another. And that's been great.

But I think the energy can kind of wax and wane

over the decades. And I just love the energy

that's in the church now. It's amazing. Yeah,

for sure. I think one of the... most noticeable

things is the the broad ethnic group that we

have represent and people from all over the world

yeah i mean the trinity yeah and that's really

lovely yeah like when i think about our current

congregation there are some folks like yourselves

who have been here for 30 or more years but there

are lots of folks who are very new to this congregation.

Like even myself, I was just saying, you know,

I've been here three or four years, maybe. And

so don't know this long history of God's faithfulness,

this history of Trinity showing up as a space

of love and light, even in the midst of devastation.

Right. And so I think to hear all of this, to

think about, you know, this is who we are. This

is our DNA. Even if we don't, know that that's

our dna that's right like this there's something

about this story that forms us as a community

together um yeah and so i'm really grateful to

both of you for sharing your perspectives on

this to get us thinking about this in a little

bit of a different way yeah So thank you both

so much. Thank you, Kyle. Yeah. And thank you

for tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity

Talks. I'm so grateful for whatever role you

play in our church community, even if it's just

listening to this podcast or if it's coming on

Sunday mornings. Thank you for being part of

this legacy, this story of rebuilding together

and trusting that God will continue to sustain

us into the future. And we will see you again

next week.